Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Treeswing
Social climber
Valley of Heart's Delight, CA
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 06:55pm PT
|
Good, clear response. That other thread was a trainwreck.
*Still hears whistles in the distance*
(seriously, I'm on your side. Too much speculation and posturing down there)
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
|
What harm in base jumping? In the worst case scenario, a failed base jump from El Cap would be equivalent to trundling, which, we all agree, is a no no and quite a danger to those below.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:01pm PT
|
Anyone have the link or otherwise know how to access the complaint Jesse mentioned, as public?
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:03pm PT
|
1361
Getting tasered for something not much different than skateboarding in a mall parking lot is way out of line. Agreed.
Got a few questions.
Instead of talking sh#t here at super doo-doo write a letter of reference. To whom? Got addresses? BASE advocates?
You realize that Dan Horner who was the Chief Criminal Investigator... Chief Criminal Investigator of what, where, and when. Relevance?
I'm in no way in favor of legalizing BASE in the national parks, but decriminalize it. Please expand/explain.
Thanks,
g
|
|
the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
|
sounds similar to the time to guys decided to do a ground up free ascent of el cap and replace a few bolts with the best tool for the job..
sucks to be the target..
get used to it, because the genie does not go back into the bottle..
|
|
BASE1361
climber
F*#k the LEO's
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:05pm PT
|
Donni. Much respect to you.
The last "failed" BASE jump was in October 2, 1999.
Jan Davis.... BSBD
Did she injure anyone during that jump?
That was the last fatality 11 years ago. How many since then and not 1... not ONE fatality on that object.
Again... I'm not advocating legalization here. Decriminalize it.
If we have no victim, what is the crime?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
|
Sounds like my cousin Dan was doing his job.
|
|
BASE1361
climber
F*#k the LEO's
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:11pm PT
|
Gene, send Ammon a letter. Do you know him? Ever talk with him outside of the valley?
Yosemite had it's own system. Dan Horner was the Chief Criminal investigator in the National Parks. That was his job. Consider him like the CIA of the NPS. or FBI or whatever you want to call it.
De-criminalize BASE jumping in the parks.
Do you feel that the treatment and actions take'n be the LEO's(Rangers) is justified for the action of another person? Regardless of who they are
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:13pm PT
|
I think we all agree that the tasering response was way overboard, and that the rules need to be changed to accomodate a new sport and period in history. However, the jump was illegal as the rules are now, and arresting jumpers is part of the job. Seems if there was excessive use of force that officer could be charged as well. Maybe we all as a group(but individually) need to write our congressman and/or go see them and use this incident as a example of why the rules need to be changed. Supertopo and its consituents as a total are a force to be reckoned with. Ask for base jumps for a hour at the same time every day. or every other day. Or some compromise so that people aren't winging off in Yosemite at all hours, but for a time every day when its legit, and see what results. Test period. Seems like a huge waste of our tax dollars to have our LEOs tasering down and arresting base jumpers. So much so that anyone can see what the reasonable thing is to do. Change policy to reflect the new reality.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
|
You know the rules, their enforcement and their consequences. The park's reaction here was a predictable as gravity.
So you have two choices:
1. You can jump anyway and hope you don't get caught, or
2. You can try to change the rules. But you don't have much of a chance if you try this right after getting caught after electing choice. This incident will just confirm their existing prejudices and make them more set in their ways.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
|
Just guessing, but if Base jumping was decriminalized, then the much lesser
penalty would be that much less respected and ignored.
Wouldn't people then just decide that paying a small fee or whatever is well
worth doing it, and so would do it anyway?
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
|
The post about getting a permit is the most likely successful method of recourse for the BASE community. Has that ever been pursued beyond mere submission of a permit request?
The analogy to climbing is spot on. Why is it that climbing is legal and recognized but BASE is not?
The CFR in text format...
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/julqtr/36cfr2.17.htm
|
|
BASE1361
climber
F*#k the LEO's
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
|
Studly well said.
BASE is a "permitted" activity but the superintendent of each NP is the only person who approves permits.
There are jumpers who have applied for permits repeatedly over the years and paid the $ for said permit and each and every time been refused. So... it's a permitted activity but we(NPS) will issue no permits.
Hiking 1/2 dome is now a permitted activity. So imagine if now the park refuses to issue the permits anymore?
What is the penality for hiking 1/2 dome without a permit? Do you get tasered at the top or bottom of the cables when you get caught?
:)
|
|
BASE1361
climber
F*#k the LEO's
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:21pm PT
|
Mungeclimber, that is from 2002.
Jason Bell has been dealing with the NPS for more years than you could imagine to legalize BASE year round off a bridge in WV.
Jump to 2007 and beyond and you will see it is now permitted.
And it's funny when you read this :
(3) Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute,
helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving
public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and
conditions of a permit.
So by this statement "other airborne means"
What about hang gliders???????? Is this not "airborne means"
WTF???
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
|
1361,
Selling a 1/4lb. does not make a danger-to-society felon. Using weapons to capture a base jumper/boarder/jaywalker/high school truant/etc. has no place in my world unless the LEO felt his personal safety was in jeopardy. Doubt that was the case here. Bagging a jumper/boarder/jaywalker/high school truant/etc. only for trophy purposes ain't right.
Disclosure: In the last year I gave a beer to an underaged person who had no access to a motor vehicle or anything else. ZAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!
g
|
|
elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
|
Who else has gotten tased "for base jumping"? We don't all agree that Ammon was tased for "base jumping". The people I know who have been busted for jumping were not. So I don't think your continued use of the idea that ...base jumping = tasing... is a valid argument and your insistance on using it diminishes your argument. It matters not what you did "IF you resist arrest"... that in itself is considered a crime no matter what the original infraction was. What happened to Ammon or what you think about the LEO's has nothing to do with what you are trying to argue for here, it seems to me.
You want to decriminalize base jumping in Yosemite. I guess I don't know what that really means. If it is to be decriminalized then it is legal? Or it would still be illegal but with no consequences for doing it?
Personally I couldn't care less either way, as I am not a jumper and never will be. I expressed an opinion on the other thread and don't need to repeat it, I can think of few things in the world that have less value than my opinion!
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
|
Elcap-pics and me are old and slow. Please explain the nuances of...
I'm in no way in favor of legalizing BASE in the national parks, but decriminalize it.
Thanks,
g
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
|
Did he resist arrest? comply with the officer's orders? Did the officer tell him to stop, or that he would be tased, prior to using the taser? Did he really try to run with the chute to escape officers attempting to arrest him for an illegal jump? He knew the jump was illegal, right?
Why don't other climbers and BASE jumpers not f*#k it up in the valley for the rest of us, who go there and climb or BASE jump?
hahaha,
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
|
Yeah, whatever happened to those guys, The Kid?
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
|
"I'm in no way in favor of legalizing BASE in the national parks, but decriminalize it."
He is saying that they should treat it as a non-criminal infraction like driving over the speed limit or camping without a permit. Both of those are illegal, but you don't get arrested for them.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!