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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 28, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
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I was up at Tahquitz a couple of days ago, and was very much angered and saddened to find this at the base of the crag:
This graffiti is located between the NE Face route and El Grandote- not sure how long it has been there, though it did look like someone had made some valiant (but ineffective) efforts to remove it- some minor chipping of the paint was evident.
If anyone has any suggestions for removal methods that won't turn the whole area into a hazmat dead zone, or requires hauling up multi-ton equipment, I'd be much obliged. There have been increasing incidences of graffiti in the San Jacinto mountains in the last 20 years, most of it occurring on roadside boulders or slabs, and on some of the boulders around major parking or trailhead areas (i.e. Humber Park). This is the first time I've seen it so far into a backcountry area.
I really try to be tolerant and compassionate towards other humans....I really do. But when I see this kind of abuse well into the backcountry, it incites a level of rage and anger that really challenges my best efforts towards compassion and understanding of my fellow human beings.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Aug 28, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
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That's just so F*#KING SICK!!!=(
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 28, 2010 - 02:23pm PT
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WTF???
Dude, thats an hour hike for a gangbanger.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
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Aug 28, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
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WHAT THE F*#K?! I love Tahquitz. That kind of sh#t has to f*#king stop. If dumb-f*#k kids want to spraypaint bullshit all over railroad cars, then let them. But not a place like Tahquitz! I wish I'd caught them. I'd have broken their f*#king fingers...
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 02:57pm PT
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"This has gone too far and it's time to take it back."
Indeed. Let's try to keep this thread bumped for a little while until those with good beta on removal can suggest the best removal strategy. (Thanks for the suggestions, Cragman & stzzo.)
I'm all for getting out there asap and getting this cleaned up, but that does seem like a re-active approach to the problem. I'd be interested to hear suggestions for more pro-active approaches, i.e. how do we keep this from happening in the future. I'm having a hard time thinking of such strategies, but I'm sure there are others out there who have dealt with this problem much more than I have.
Edit:
taco bill's suggestion (in the thread link from Mike, above) sounds worthy- RemovAll 320 or 330, though it sounds like it requires a fair amount of water and time (like most of the day). I wonder how toxic that stuff is, too- the slab is surrounded by azalea shrubs.
http://www.dtep-archive.com/removall320.htm
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
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It would be interesting to know how long this graffiti has been there- I was in that same area about a month ago and didn't notice it, but it's possible I could have simply missed it.
Edit to below:
Oooooo...that's an intriguing idea, TBum. If anyone has some good graphic skills and can draw something up, we could post it along the climber approach trails halfway or so towards Tahquitz. It would need to be easily/cheaply reproduce-able, since it probably wouldn't last forever.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Aug 28, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
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Perhaps a sign. One with a simple traffic graphic logo.
A guy hanging off (tied off to his balls) an overhanging cliff (upside down) with huge exposure and he's simul shitting his pants and dropping his spray can. The text might read something like "Beware of lurking climber snares"!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 28, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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I have had some success with using a battery powered grinder with a wire buffing wheel. Might give it a try.
-----
Hope you do. Terrible development. Amazing someone would trudge all the way up there to do a little tagging.
JL
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 05:05pm PT
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OK, here's an idea: I did a quick & dirty workup of a sign that could be easily & cheaply re-printed and replaced as necessary. This sign could be placed along the climber's trails to both Tahquitz (west & north approaches) & Suicide. It would make sense to place it far enough up the trail that it is well away from the frontcountry trailhead touron hordes- by doing so, it is most likely to be seen by climbers, or the scumbag tagger who is planning on hitting the crags. Here's a quick workup:
I'm not wed to any of the language- if anyone has suggestions for changes/additions, bring 'em on. I do think it needs to have strong language that is just short of sounding physically threatening (or it is more likely to create resistance from land managers in the area).
The sign could be laminated and replaced if weathered or stolen. By monitoring it's presence, and perhaps placing it in the local gyms & retail stores, as well as climber forums like this, perhaps it will help raise a little more awareness, and help keep eyes open for this kind of abuse.
That's just one suggestion. Anybody got anything else?
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jstan
climber
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Aug 28, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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The sign will be seriously tagged, which is good.
At a point on the sign that will obviously be spray painted you mount a light detector with circuitry that detects any significant light change taking less than one second. Such an event would be wirelessly broadcast and LEO alerted. If the taggers are not alerted in any way they will be an easy pick.
Dirtineye had several precautions about removal. His stuff needs to be brought forward.
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Aug 28, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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That sh*t has been there for several years, I think. It's now protected under 'cultural diversity' statutes...
BH
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Aug 28, 2010 - 06:51pm PT
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I've been removing graffiti from some Santa Barbara sandstone for the last five days.
Sandstone is way more porous than granite-so you might have an advantage. The most effective(but not perfect) has been Jasco paint and epoxy stripper. The brush on stuff is better than the spray-but the spray is easier to control for the most part. I then used a wire brush and kept spraying it with water from a spray bottle. When I had removed as much as I could I rinsed it with water and a nylon bristle brush.
Good luck
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 06:51pm PT
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Will do, eKat. Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim- aren't those Jasco products pretty harsh (environmentally)?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Aug 28, 2010 - 06:53pm PT
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This really sucks. I like the poster BTW. Gloves are off if taggers get caught.
Dirt and I had a lot of long discussions on graffiti removal. The link about the "Removal" products is good and you should give it a read. The graffiti removal at Yosemite was done with Removal. It's a slow process and requires hauling up some garden sprayers and patience but the product is a way less toxic alternative. It claims to be bio-degradable, but you still don't want it on your skin BTW.
Dirt was vehemently anti- wire grinding wheels and wire brushes, but I always secretly disagreed a bit thinking it's really more situational and depends on the type of rock. With this Tahquitz graffiti it might be worth a shot since it's granite and it's so hard to haul water up there.
I've also observed that- if left alone- regular weathering, time and sun will often fade and obliterate graffiti. I was all set to go into Malibu Creek to remove some red graffiti that appeared during the summer last year and rain and sun had done most of the job for me.
Edit to add: I'd advise against Jasco. Jasco works great... because it is EXTREMELY caustic. It should not be used anywhere where people may come into contact with the treated surface. You just can't really wash it off a natural stone and even if you do... that toxic crap is going into the dirt/plants etc. The residue can last for months and can still cause skin reactions.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Aug 28, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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Apogee.
I don't know of ANY friendly product :(
A year ago I tried just a wire brush. It produced very poor results and started to screw up the sandstone. You ended up with scratched up paint and rock. Actually looked kinda worse than before I started.
So I did nothing. Hoped it would just wear away with the weather. The bad thing is that other taggers started to add to it. Some sorta moronic "one upsmanship" I guess. So I decided to try to remove some of the more prominent stuff.
I try to be careful with the product and use it sparingly. I also do it on hot days, so the stuff evaporates pretty quickly.
I'm all for other suggestions. Sometimes the County comes through to take care of it, but they just use that horrible gray epoxy paint-which, again, almost looks worse than the original problem.
Edit: I'd love to use a pressure washer, I'm sure that would do a great job. It's just some of the areas are hard to get to. And all water would have to be hauled in. I'm not terribly happy using any thing other than water. But trying to lift the paint out of the sandstone has proven difficult.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Aug 28, 2010 - 08:07pm PT
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We used Removall. Here's the link http://www.dtep.com/removall.htm
You have to be patient and depending on how long the paint has been there determines how much scrubbing. Granite can handle some scrubbing, sandstone would not. I would start on a small area first trying softer brushes first and stiffer brushes if needed. Once you have perfected the technique and are happy with the results you can do bigger patches. I would not treat the whole thing at once as it might just smear. After loosening paint try to dab it off first when wet before you go for the big rinse. Ask Zander, he was involved with the Gunsight cleanup and could be more helpful about technique. Good luck!
Ken
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
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that is totally f'd up.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
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Wow...that is a sad sight. I love that place, and just can't wrap my mind around the kind of motivations that would compel someone to do something like that. I know it's not genocide, or anything, but that kind of stuff in a place so beautiful really gets me ticked.
I like your idea of a sign, Apogee. I do wonder, though, if a strong reaction and warning to what the perps did might contribute to their sense of power. Just a thought, but I wonder if something along the lines of: "Have you seen the immature _(fill the in the blank)_(s) who did this? If so, call: _." Kind of like acknowledging that they are "unfortunately special," rather than powerful or outlaws.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
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why not set up some signs....danger! rattlesnake breeding area, at the trailhead...anybody stupid enough to be into grafitti would probably fall for such a sign and stay away....? rj
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