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LB4USC
Trad climber
Long Beach
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 20, 2010 - 10:10am PT
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So, Floyd admits he WAS doping when he "won" the Tour de France. AND ... wait for it ... Lance Armstrong was a doper. George Hincapie was a doper. Dave Zabriskie was a doper.
Eff it. I'm going climbing.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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May 20, 2010 - 10:31am PT
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This thread is useless without sources cited.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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May 20, 2010 - 10:31am PT
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Yeah, I know this is the United States of Amnesia (Gore Vidal)...
... but do any of you guys recall how vehemently Landis denied it. Over and over and over. How outraged he was by the accusations and how he wasn't going to take it anymore.
Our species is chockful of it. From snakeoil salesmen to conspiracy whacos to staight up baldfaced liars. Points to the seamy side of evolution and natural selection...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 20, 2010 - 10:53am PT
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Very sad. What I don't get is how he passed so many other tests, a lot of them. That does seem to raise a flag or two about the testing and, in fact, a world-class bio-chemist I know says the whole dope testing system seems pretty bush.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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May 20, 2010 - 11:00am PT
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Well, for those with Extra-bad Amnesia (/\ /\ /\), Landis was not accused of having high testosterone. He was accused of having a skewed ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, which normally indicates adulteration. A normal ratio is 4 to 1. They tested the sample from him after winning the tour three times. One rated 4 to one, one rated 9 to 0ne and one rated 11 to one. So, of course, they went with 11 to one. They obviously were f*#king up the test. Incidentally, this is from the most embattled lab in sports history, with MANY settlements against it for faulty work, mislabeling samples etc.
As an aside, they didn't release his "B" sample for independent confirmation as required by the WADA bylaws. This is what Floyd sued them for. To release his "B" sample.
The head of UCLAs drug testing lab, a world authority, after reading about his plight, offered to represent him in the case pro-bono, because they were aware of the steps in the test that lab techs often make mistakes that would give them these IDENTICAL results. WADA, at this point, was not going to go back on anything they had ruled on in front of the world, and refused to hear anything he brought to the appeal.
Interestingly, in most of the world, a ratio of up to 14 to one is still within the paraameters of "normal", that is, naturally biologically possible.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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May 20, 2010 - 11:04am PT
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I climb with a lot of dopers and they're all real real good folks: but I don't think it helps their performance.
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LB4USC
Trad climber
Long Beach
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2010 - 11:07am PT
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I know it's nothing new with respect to doping in cycling and suspicions of Armstrong.
I'm not a fan of Lance, so it doesn't bother me to see him take a hit.
It bothers me to see Floyd swinging out there ... even if it is of his own making.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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May 20, 2010 - 11:24am PT
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I'm a dope.
I actually bought into the Landis crap in 2006. I figured that the French Lab was spiking pee samples, etc. Landis should and will burn for this, but I'd like to see who really wasn't doping at that level of cycling.
I'm a dope. But now my July mornings are all freed up for more productive activities than watching the TdF.
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Binks
climber
Uranus
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May 20, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
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Impossible to prove and so it should be disregarded. Who really knows what motivates Landis. For years he denied it and now changes? WTF is the truth?
I don't even trust his own admission of guilt let alone his implication of Armstrong.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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May 20, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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It'd be a shame if he grew t!ts.
On not.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May 20, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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Most of the people I ride with are doping. Sometimes we even stop during the ride and dope-up again.
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hb81
climber
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May 20, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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What many people fail to understand is that doping in pro cycling does not get one from 100% to 150%, it's more like from 100% to 105% or even less.
So if you'd imagine that everyone in the field had been absolutely clean of all things illegal, Lance Armstrong probably would've won the tour quite a few times anyway because he's just really talented.
They should just drop all doping controls and let Darwin handle it. If you overdo it - you're gonna go like Tom Simpson in 1967.
To anyone interested in pro cycling and how messed up it really is I'd recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Ride-Behind-Wheel-Cyclist/dp/0224080172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274374734&sr=8-1
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 20, 2010 - 01:23pm PT
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I'm kind of with Binks on this one. When you have a culture where, now, presumably, everyone's doing it, it seems difficult to guage the truth. You're kind of thru the looking glass.
I don't really get the animosity that seems reserved for Landis. If doped and lied about it, then so is everyone else. So why save all the hate for him? Also, if everyone doped and he still kicked their asses (which let's face it, he did), then he was still the best rider that year.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 20, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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I bet a lot of climbers use performance enhancing "products" I know a lot of climbers around here used creatine like crazy. Is that now a banned substance in a lot of sports? I was too cheap and it tasted like crap so I just stayed chubby. There were also a lot of athletes that supposedly failed drug tests for steroids due to substances in the suppliments they were getting from healthfood stores.
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LB4USC
Trad climber
Long Beach
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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Lance's circle:
Dr. Michele Ferrari, cycling coach/physician - charged and acquitted of doping athletes.
Roberto Heras, former teammate - suspended for doping
Tyler Hamilton, former teammate - suspended for doping
Floyd Landis, former teammate - suspended for doping
While he's never tested positive, if it quacks like a duck ...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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May 20, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
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All I use is Dynabol to keep my bench above 315 and my squat at 495. I draw the line at anything more serious.
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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May 20, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
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It's funny, my number 1 issue here isn't the doping
as much as the straight out lying and insistent
denial and phony righteous indignation I recall well
he presented in the media.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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May 20, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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After winning the climbing 5.6 world cup, I tested positive for Ibeprophen. Such shame......
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Brian
climber
California
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May 20, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
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I despise the doping and anyone who does it. Just because everyone dose [EDIT: that's a funny typo!] it doesn't make it right. For me, Pantani's magnificent breakway in 1998 is ruined by the fact that he was a doper.
These competitions should be won by the person with the best spirit, the person who can dig the deepest and suffer the most, not by the person with the best pharmacist.
That being said, the game is over and we will never be able to keep one step ahead of doping technology: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080814-gene-doping.html
The real heroes are the amateurs, in the literal meaning of the word. See the "best climber you've never heard of" thread.
Brian
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