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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 9, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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I think I'll continue to embrace the Catholic church, but it just won't have me anymore apparently. They frown on my divorve a few years ago and DEMAND that I attend church to gain my son's acceptance into the church.
It's not that I oppose that, but I oppose demands that I have to attend the church regularly to gain acceptance. I am a believer that accepts God, but feels that I don't need a person to tell me how to do it every Sunday, under their terms.
I know the way. I worship in private everyday. I think I now have found a church that will accept me and my son.
I know it sound selfish, worship on you own terms, but I feel Jesus wanted people to find God, not having the church rammed down their throats.
What say you? My new Lutheran pastor seems really cool. And he will baptize my child. Even if I don't go to church, but I said I'd try, because he seems cool and the congregation seems cool too.
Isn't that a key to spirituality? Finding people you relate to? And accept you...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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The Catholic Church brought spirituality to a lot of people via the Inquisition.
Bluey, be careful, be verrrry careful!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 10:17pm PT
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Explain, Reilly....that's what this thread is for.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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If you ever miss the old style ritual of the Catholic church and sacraments, you might also be interested in the Orthodox Church who does it in English with icons, music, and incense and have the best celebration of Easter of anyone. There are no hassles with birth control and they allow up to three marriages.
Otherwise it sounds like these Lutherans are much more liberal than they used to be.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Bluey,
Since Reilly is my middle name as a result of it being me mum's
maiden name I got street cred in Dublin and Rome hence my
cynicism about 'The Church'. I'm kinda down on institutions in
general but especially institutionalized religion as in the type
that imposes 'Inquisitions'. I'm not opposed to spirituality by
any means; I get very spiritual driving into the Valley. I also get
spiritual going into a great cathedral. I guess I'm conflicted which
is kinda what the Catholic Church is all about: no guilt - no customers.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Your faith is your business. Any covenant you make is a private matter, and not subject to outside criticism.
Unless you're a scientologist, then you're just plain weird.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 10:29pm PT
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I guess I'm conflicted which
is kinda what the Catholic Church is all about.
That makes two of us! I recently inquired about having my boy brought into the 'family', and they shut us down. F*#ked up!
My wife even explained that my whole family was baptized there and they said, "If you don't currently attend church here, why have your child baptized here?"
WTF? Because we want to raise the boy Catholic??? Duh????
Whatever....they lost me with that statement. F*#ked up!!!!
The Catholic Church is killing itself. Their unaccepatnce and intolerance is telling. One reason I like Christian sermons is they are real. Catholics keep up with the same outdated, boring , crap! Can't they relate the past with current teachings???
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asioux
Trad climber
Rancho Cucamonga
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Hey man. What is important is your relationship with the Lord and your walk with God. God is just to forgive. Whatever the sin is. I don't know the circumstances on your divorce. But I tell you this. I have been divorced and have remarried. God forgives. Jesus will accept you no matter what you have done. So why should it be any different. The catholic church is wrong to demand that you go to church to win your sons acceptance to the church. That is not biblical!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
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Thanks, Cragman, I was counting on your prayers....
Asoiux...I hear ya! It just feels wrong to be dissed like that. Jesus wouldn't judge in that regard if you felt love again, in another marriage. Especially if the first wasn't your fault!
I hear ya. I know the path....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 10:38pm PT
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E-mail me, Sully....
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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How important is the structure provided by the Catholic Church? Does is keep you away from where you really want to go? Or is its structure a necessary part of the path that will lead you there?
Steve, you probably know from previous posts that I'm no believer, but when it comes to questions like the one you're asking, maybe it's worth considering the gospel of Saint Thomas (not part of the traditional new testament). When discussing how important the structure and rules of the church are, Thomas quotes Jesus as saying: "Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
Maybe worth thinking about.
Good luck.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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hey dude, be careful. the Lutherans are fricken heretics aren't they? What's with "we don't need no pope" stuff.
Seriously, there is always pull between hierarchical forms of religion and more autonomous forms. Although the Lutherans are a little hierarchical themselves for my taste. But then again the "each to there own" liberals kind of turn me off too. Someone needs to be shaking their finger at the pervasive sin in the world and that is usually the professional priest/ministerial corp. But in my experience its a delicate balance. Personally I like the high church Episcopalians like Grace Cathedral in SF. All the tradition of the Catholics (even more so) but with an open intellectual view that doesn't condescend to the parishioners and pretty much treats everyone as thinking adults.
As to your particular rebuff, I would guess that that is just the peculiarity of your local priest and not Church policy, although I could be wrong on that.
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Dirka
Trad climber
SF
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Uh oh! This fight might draw in the theologins... And we know they are crazy... Lizzy.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
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Jesus, Lois, don't confuse this topic, please.
Blueing,
And not to be crass, but I think you "get more for your money" with the Catholics. I mean you get the incense, the statues, saints galore, marble alters, etc. Dollar for dollar, I do believe you get more bang for the buck with the Catholics.
You misunderstand my problem...
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BES1\\\'st
climber
Orange, CA.
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I was told a non-jew can re-marry. One or the other needs to leave
the house.
I asked, "what determines a jew, since they seem to have vanished
around the 12 tribes"? Response: A jew is raised as a jew by their
mother or through proper conversion. I never received a response as
to what proper conversion is?
I have a hard time excepting Christ as there seems to be 2. One is
historical and the other is by faith. There are differences between
the 2.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Your relationship with Jesus is personal.
You have to look at it like a business (which, unfortunately, is the priority of many churches). You want their services but you don't want to pay. Before they provide their service they want a commitment (ie payment)from you.
Edit: I did not mean with monetary payment.
My sister wanted to get married at the Baptist church we went to as kids. She wasn't really good at attending as an adult. No problem, they had to do a couple of months of church counselling and attendance.. They "paid up" and got hitched.
LEB is right, many churches are baron, especially the Lutheran's. Must be the German thing.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 11:16pm PT
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arsenalcrater, you offer good insights, as does Jim and Sully.
The place I was trying to 'get into' was an older establishment Catholic Church that I was baptized in as well as my siblings and Dad. It is 'othodox Roman Catholic' and that prolly says it all. I figured I had a free pass.
Sully gave me some good tips on other Catholic churches. They even don't have mass in latin apparently, which always pissed me off. If I got to church I wanna hear, understand what you're saying!
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BES1\\\'st
climber
Orange, CA.
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By Judaism a relationship with god maybe forbidden by law to speak
about, hence it's very personal regardless of Jesus.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
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Lois, maybe you understand my remorse with the Catholic faith. It's strictly structured worship. Why can't I still maintain that same faith without the bullshit that accompanies it. Maybe I'm just a jaundiced Catholic. Sully seems to have other insights that hopefully she'll share...
I seek answers. I think I know them, but I want further insight.
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