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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 29, 2008 - 12:22pm PT
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Being an old bastard sucks! My walker gets in the way. Every time I think I found a nice little stance to drill from, that sucker's swinging around tangling my hammer cord.
One thing I do get better at is listening. I'll be there Wizard! Pass me another beer...
And I'm bringing my copy of Collapse -- great book -- so you can 'splain me where it says rap bolting is the tipping point for the crash of Western Civilization.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Apr 29, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
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Note to self: Do not check supertopo while eating breakfast...
just kidding. you are handsum.
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SMQ
climber
Grand Rapids, MI
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Apr 29, 2008 - 01:50pm PT
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Contrary to what that little box on the left says, I'm not a climber at all -- doubt I've ever been over grade 3 -- but I stumbled across this thread following a chain of "hmm, that looks interesting" links and found myself enthralled. Not so much by the ethics discussion itself (as I obviously don't have any perspective from which to have an opinion), but by the very real sense of history, and, more importantly, *community* displayed, even among those of you who have never met outside of this forum.
So I just thought I'd pop in and say, if I ever *do* find the time to get off my mushy computer programmer a$$ and go learn to climb something, it will, in no small part, be because of this thread, because you all seem like an incredible bunch of people to hang out with.
Even Matt. ;-)
--SMQ
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Apr 29, 2008 - 02:55pm PT
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"So I just thought I'd pop in and say, if I ever *do* find the time to get off my mushy computer programmer a$$ and go learn to climb something, it will, in no small part, be because of this thread, because you all seem like an incredible bunch of people to hang out with."
About the only thing you will get out of the climbing community is lousy hygene, poor eating habits, how to consume large quantities of lighter fluid while convincing yourself it's beer, and an amazing series of adventures that will last you many lifetimes.
On the other hand, you could just sit in traffic and breathe smog the whole time hoping you don't get shot.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Apr 29, 2008 - 03:01pm PT
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"Even Matt. ;-) "
hahahaha
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Apr 29, 2008 - 03:27pm PT
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Sean's post made me realize: God has been driving bolts into Half Dome from the top down for millions of years. How come he gets a pass?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 29, 2008 - 04:04pm PT
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I just loaded the whole thread at once, which took 319 seconds (5:31).
I followed TIG's advice and pasted into Word using the Paste Special command and
pasting as unformatted text. Here is what I got:
Anyone know how to remove all the space between the paragraphs? That would knock
the page-count down considerably...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 29, 2008 - 05:09pm PT
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A Legend of Half Dome
Many, many generations ago, long before the gods had completed the fashioning of the magnificent cliffs in the Valley of Ahwahnee, there dwelt far off in arid plains an Indian woman by the name of Tis-sa-ack and her husband Nangas. Learning from other Indians of the beautiful and fertile Valley of Ahwahnee, they decided to go there and make it their dwelling place. Their journey led them over rugged terrain, steep canyons and through dense forests. Tis-sa-ack carried on her back a heavy burden basket containing acorns and other articles, as well as a papoose carrier, or hickey. Nangas followed at a short distance carrying his bow, arrow and a rude staff.
After days and days of weary traveling, they at last entered the beautiful Valley of Ahwahnee. Nangas being tired, hungry and very thirsty, lost his temper, and without good reason he struck Tis-sa-ack a sharp blow across the shoulders with his staff. Since it was contrary to custom for an Indian to mistreat his wife, Tis-sa-ack became terrified and ran eastward from her husband.
As she went, the gods looking down, caused the path she took to become the course of a stream, and the acorns that dropped from her burden basket to spring up into stalwart oaks. At length Tis-sa-ack reached Mirror Lake, and so great was her thirst that she drank every drop of the cool, quiet water.
When Nangas caught up with Tis-sa-ack, and saw that there was no water left to quench his thirst, his anger knew no bounds, and again he struck her with his staff. Tis-sa-ack again ran from him, but he pursued her and continued to beat her. Looking down on them, the gods were sorely displeased.
“Tis-sa-ack and Nangas have broken the spell of peace,” they said. “Let us transform them into cliffs of granite that face each other, so that they will be forever parted.”
Tis-sa-ack as she fled tossed aside the heavy burden basket to enable her to run faster, and landing upside down it immediately became Basket Dome; next she threw the papoose carrier, or hickey, to the north wall of the canyon, and it became Royal Arches. Nangas was then changed into Washington Column, and Tis-sa-ack into Half Dome. The dark streaks that still mar the face of this stupendous cliff represent the tears that Tis-sa-ack shed as she ran from her angry husband.
From: http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/yosemite_indians/legends.html
Perhaps there's something we could learn from the legend, or it has metaphorical applications to Growing Up.
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Apr 29, 2008 - 11:35pm PT
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Second page? OH NO!!!
Bump
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 29, 2008 - 11:40pm PT
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grover
Social climber
Akanada
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Apr 30, 2008 - 12:36am PT
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Thy beating is over
Horse tacos anyone?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 30, 2008 - 12:52am PT
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Save the babble Cozzie.... the horse is dead, and I assure you, there might only be 15 guys on this thread that understand, and I'll count myself in with those.
The South Face is DEAD! Long live the South Face!
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grover
Social climber
Akanada
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Apr 30, 2008 - 01:05am PT
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In the big picture we are all right, yet all wrong.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 30, 2008 - 01:16am PT
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note to Coz: less posting while on wine.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 30, 2008 - 01:21am PT
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coz wrote: Collapse, yes, rap bolting Half Dome, I think is the beginning of the end; hope I am wrong.
You are!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 30, 2008 - 01:39am PT
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Cheers! you guys on both (various?) sides!
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grover
Social climber
Akanada
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Apr 30, 2008 - 01:51am PT
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"but I know that like a protester in communist China, I stood in front of a tank."
People have died doing exactly that.
Is this really a comparative issue?
Where are we going with all this?
Will this ever go beyond the comfort of our homes, cafes and vans?
Would any of you say these words up-front, face to face with ?????????
HMmmmmmmmmm.??????????????
So many ?'s, so little beer.
What say you ?
mark
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:00am PT
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Hi coz, hows it going?
It's a matter of perspective and ideals. There is more than one way to skin a cat (what a stupid saying, I mean, who actually skins cats?). You are not wrong in so far as from your perspective you are holding true to the experiences and ideals that have shaped your life and constitute your perception of reality and your place in it. Moreover, there are plenty of others who agree with you.
You are only wrong by the standards of those other people whose ideals, life experiences, and perception of reality differ, if ever so slightly from your own. And there are plenty of people who disagree with your perspective.
If you percieve rap bolted routes on Half Dome as the beginning of the end (collapse), then you will invariably encorporate an endless list of examples from your personal experience to reaffirm your position, and further entrench your belief that you are right.
It is an odd thing, because admitting that you are wrong (and I'm not saying that you are) would require a restructuring of your constructed reality, and possibly create contradictions within yourself and your life experiences. That is why we are well over 2000 posts deep into this sucker, and acheiving very little in the way of ideological persuasion. People contilually look for opportunities to reaffirm their construction of reality, rather than to find ways to reshape it.
My words, not Bob's.
Ok, no more wine for me~~~~~~~Your turn Bob. nighty-night. SA
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:26am PT
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Another overlay photo guess (photo does not show certain key dike features on Growing Up and features on Southern Belle p4-6).
[Edit #1 - noon: overlay revised - thanks for Jim for posting the photo overlay from the 1993 Reid Yosemite Big Walls guide. I made the Lost Again line follow that, and I also changed the line for Southern Belle P4-6. But I'm not confident of that line because the 1993 line shows Southern Belle exiting the corner at a spot that I think is too high.]
[Edit #2 - 1am 5/1: After checking several photos, including especially Ben's, the exit point for Southern Belle in the 1993 overlay is correct, so I have modified the color overlay to change that.]
Cleaned up single page topo for Growing Up:
[Edit: changed p7 text to:
10" wide, sloping lb ]
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/growingup.pdf
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:36am PT
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Russ wrote
"note to Coz: less posting while on wine."
Funny, there's been a few posts from different folks on this thread that might have been affected by posting on wine.
But a lot more that were posting on Whine.
I have a couple of partners that whine and dine with me, where the original whine is drown in wine.
But I swear I'm straight right now and going to bed.
The fact is, with the way the world is going, we'll be lucky if we get around to having a problem with too many routes or too many climbers on Half Dome.
More likely $15 a gallon gas and economic rap-bolting will keep the riff-raff away and more.
Peace
karl
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