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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 26, 2007 - 11:38pm PT
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SuperTopians old and new often comment on the way ST is organized. Some want it divided into climbing and non-climbing threads. Others want it organized in other ways. There've been one or two threads that summarized "good" threads. But for now, the only way SuperTopo is organized is chronologically, based on the date of the last post. Otherwise, if you want to find something, you have to use the search function, and that's somewhat scattergun. (No, Ron, this is NOT a gun thread.)
Anyway, my idea is to go back through threads and prepare a list of what I think are the good ones, going back to January 2006, just before I joined in. It would be posted in segments, so it would all be in one thread, but be bumped every day or two with a post on a new subject. Many threads that started before January 2006 would be included - the good ones tend to reappear from time to time.
I've been reviewing threads, working backward, and preparing a summary. So far I've got about 400 threads, in 24 topics. Right now they're in the form of a word document, all in one. I'm back to May 2007. The threads are almost all climbing or climber related. Many also have pictures. Most of them are fairly long threads - few are under 20 posts, and many much longer.
Subjects so far include:
 Writing & Literature
History
The Wonderful World of SuperTopo
Cliffs and Climbs Yosemite & Tuolumne
Cliffs and Climbs Joshua Tree, Tahquitz & Suicide
Cliffs and Climbs California (Other)
Cliffs and Climbs Nevada, Utah, Arizona
Cliffs and Climbs Central, Northeast, Southeast
Cliffs and Climbs Various
Miscellaneous
Humour & Oddities
Kids, Critters & Flowers
Gear
Steve Grossman
Joseph Healy
Ken Yager
Stonemasters
Peter Haan
Todd Gordon
Jello
Tarbuster
Memorial Threads
People (Birthdays Mostly Omitted)
Facelift 2007 (If we make it that far)
I'm thinking about whether to include all the various SushiFest threads, the elcap-pics threads, and some other obvious ones. When a name is provided, it simply means the person has been an especially prolific poster, or made outstanding contributions, IMHO. Many others have done so, and I may yet separate them out.
Threads will be organized by subject, then listed by thread title, pen name of original post, and URL. I've thought about adding information, for threads whose subjects aren't obvious from the name, but that may be some effort.
There's something of a bias toward threads with historical substance. Luckily I haven't started many threads (FaceLift aside), so you won't have to see MH's greatest hits.
Sadly, it looks like the Clash of Civilizations threads may not make the cut. Any political threads, in fact. Can't understand it. You'd think I was some sort of censor or something. Otherwise, I'm trying to be reasonably objective about what is included, given my amateur techniques and not unlimited time.
My mother and my sister are professional librarians, so perhaps it's some genetic thing. And we do have long dark grey cool rainy winters in Vancouver.
I'd welcome thoughts on this - whether it's worth pursuing, the kinds of subjects and authors you'd like to see, your favourite threads in case I miss any. (Don't be shy.) It won't be the greatest of tools, but it may help people find things, and be educated and entertained.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:43pm PT
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I see my avatar in there, Mighty! I think you're onto a good thing. Thanks for the work.
(seriously)
-HumbleJello
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:49pm PT
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Where's the "this thread contains a Woody's Azz shot"
category?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2007 - 12:17am PT
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Any political threads, in fact. Can't understand it - Mighty Hiker
Well to tell you the truth, I might be one of the only people here who've actually devoured most of those threads to find their aim and point and used it as a catalyst for researching to a far deeper understanding.
They, political threads, were actually very helpful once you get beyond all the biases and bickering.
Without good leadership and truth etc. etc. your so called climbing world will disintegrate.
You will not even have proper food or means of transportation to go climbing as is already starting to happen world wide.
Climbing only consciousness is a very narrow road that I see too much being engaged nowadays.
In the old days guys I would take great interest in political dialogs from such notable folks in camp four, as Eric Beck, Walt Rosenthal and many others.
Listening only to the lap dogs of the media and newspapers is surely a trend towards illusion and death of the soul.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 02:26am PT
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Thanks, Werner. I agree that the political, and indeed the non-climbing threads generally, sometimes are interesting and informative. Although the chaff/wheat ratio seems much higher on the political than the climbing threads. I also agree that the world of climbing doesn't stand on its own - we're part of the bigger world.
Still, it's a big enough job trying to put together a basic catalog of the 'good' climbing-related threads. Scrolling back to June 1, 2007, there are a total of about 4,300 threads, and less than 10% make the cut. That's still somewhere well over 300, not including earlier threads which have been netted in other ways.
I do welcome suggestions on what to include, and not. Anyone who wants is welcome to put together a catalog/index of other threads, and add it to the heap. If this idea has legs, I'll post some examples fairly soon, and get some more feedback.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 27, 2007 - 10:44am PT
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Fine idea, I'm impressed that you have the energy!
I could suggest one large category of cool threads that you've missed, but I think you're wise not to expand too far, and to keep the list climbing-related.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 27, 2007 - 11:28am PT
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Mighty, where's the Food thread.
I'm hungry.
And a booze one too.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 11:20pm PT
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Thank you for the bump, FT. You're welcome to submit "Clash of Civilizations" as a subject heading, and compile a list of all those threads. In fact, perhaps a list of all the classic ST political threads - no need to limit it to CoC.
Great that you're willing to help out - it may take you a while. Perhaps AC would be interested in helping?
The committee will be pleased to take your submission under advisement.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 11:28pm PT
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Thank you, Jody! A most excellent list - I haven't yet got back far enough to catch most of them, but certainly knew they were there, and needed. My "Ken Yager/Chicken Skinner" category exists, and this really adds to it.
Do you keep any other lists of good threads, or have some magical way of finding them?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2007 - 01:52am PT
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Thanks, Indian climber - I had some of the Mussy Nebula threads. Luckily, they're interlinked, like the Stonemasters, so it's easy to follow them backward. (Or forward, for those so inclined.)
In fact, there are enough tarbuster threads that I may have to subdivide them, depending on genre. Good stuff.
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Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
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Nov 28, 2007 - 02:07am PT
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MH I found that with a google search,it was easier than the Supertopo search
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Nov 28, 2007 - 02:14am PT
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The focus seems to be largely California. You don't seem interested in me or Tom Higgins. I guess that's ok, though some really good things have been shared, along with some of the most accurate history on SuperTopo. But don't forget Rich Goldstone's Needle's Eye thread...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2007 - 02:22am PT
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Thanks, Pat - I've got six or seven of your threads so far, and I'm sure I'll find more as I go. They're pretty much all good - some go for quality, some for quantity, very few manage both. Send me a note if there's any in particular that you think should be included, yours or others.
So far I've placed your threads in the various sections they seem best to fit in, but with a few more, they may warrant a section of their own. Though you don't have to have as many as tarbuster (40) for a section all your own.
I've got the Needle's Eye classic from Rich Goldstone. If I remember rightly, most of LongAgo's (Tom Higgins') threads to date were from 2006, so I haven't got back to them yet. (I'm at June 2007.) If you have a list of his thread titles, please send it - I remember he added some great stuff.
I'm not sure how far google will get me, but may give it a shot for certain subjects.
As I'm an amateur at this, any help welcome, whether for content and organization. I'm sure the product will be imperfect and incomplete, but I hope it will be useful to some.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2007 - 02:33am PT
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One problem I'm wrestling with is authorship. Many good threads have dozens of posts and contributors, and some go over 100 posts. Sometimes the original poster's name may not be the most pertinent, for those who look for such things. At the same time, many good threads clearly derive from the first post/idea.
The geography is a similar problem - threads, even the good ones, sometimes wander. A variety of subjects and areas may be sampled, even without evil hijackers and thread drift. How can multi-subject and multi-protagonist threads be adequately catalogued, without getting overly complicated?
Finally, as Pat rightly points out, there's a bias on SuperTopo towards things Californian, and southwestern generally. Although tarbuster, rgold, and many others do their best to influence things for the better, and of course climbing is less of a regional thing than it once was. Hard for regionalism not to be reflected in any index. All the more reason to let me know what your favourite threads are.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 28, 2007 - 05:32am PT
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I must register my protest at the Clash of Civilizations being included.
We all know that Fattrad posted (somehow, under other people's avatars, he's clever you know) most of the posts on those threads. He's a glory hound. ;-) ;-) ;-)
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TradIsGood
Half fast climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Nov 28, 2007 - 01:09pm PT
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You must not have gotten the full genetic dose.
You need to have a multi-level hierarchy, each with a relatively small number of nodes (sort of a taxonomic organization).
Then you need to be able to maintain 24x7, which will require collaborators. You give your collaborators your Librarian login and you pass maintenance along to the next in line when you are done.
That way they can maintain the directory, with out extending it by additional posts. Of course, to prevent it falling off the first page, it needs bumps.
Of course, taxonomic organizations are multi-dimensional. Consider for example just animals. You might classify by their physical appearance, but others with a different set of tools might use their genetic composition.
In climbing terms, the question is whether your Yosemite clean-up is climbing, ecological, charity, or social.
BTW. There are those climbing areas and climbing routes tabs above. ;-)
Cheers! :-)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2007 - 05:34pm PT
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Yes, all good points. Undoubtedly:
1. The thread will eventually fall off the first page, never to be seen again unless bumped, or provided with a place elsewhere on ST.
2. It will be only be a snapshot of two + years on ST, with some flashbacks, and so may age, although many of the threads seem timeless. Keeping it current would be a lot of work.
3. Any index will undoubtedly be subjective and imperfect. This will give everyone something to talk about that's climbing related. Plus it's unavoidable anyway. I'll do my best, knowing that the ST peanut gallery is well populated, but also that an index that is too much at variance with what's actually on ST, or different from what it claims to be, won't be of much use.
The noisier critics can always make an index all their own - or provide helpful suggestions on organization and content. Or use the search function.
4. Yes, in mathematical terms a good index is a multi-dimensional matrix. That's beyond my energy and time, and probably skills. But a bit of help on organization and what to include is always welcome.
"Better to light one candle, than curse the darkness."
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