Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
pud
climber
Sportbikeville
|
|
John,
It sounds like you are looking for a slogan more than a credo.
|
|
mingus
Trad climber
Grand Junction, Colorado
|
|
"but don't forget the perils of myth creation"
Mr. Mighty Hiker, with all respect to your articulate assessment of historical presentation...I subscribe to the idea that one should never let whatever truth exists, get in the way of a good story. After all -- we are talking about the Stonemasters, Hendrix, that stuff you folks call H. lettuce (amomgst other things). If we don't have decent myth then all we are stuck with is excel spreadsheets and some story about Uncle Manny having a stroke while over-hauling the lawn mower. What would Joseph Campbell say?
Largo, you probably have some deadline to get these stories out and I can't wait to read them, but I think you are in a place to write a wider climbing history and story that encompasses the personalities and epics of a broader era. I read stuff all the time on ST that makes me laugh and wince in its honesty -- and wonder what graveyard in cyberspace they will go to. Please keep writing, editing and compiling the words that make us all lift a couple of feet off the ground when we are having a bad day.
Don't roll your eyes yet...but Ken Burns did his documentaries based on still shots...the Civil War, The West. To mention Stacy Peralta to someone who lives in CA is probably a violation of some sort, but I live in the desert of western Colorado, and what the hell...sometimes you see and appreciate other peoples destinies more than your own. Be sure, I'm buying the book.
|
|
Carolyn C
Trad climber
the long, long trailer
|
|
"I subscribe to the idea that one should never let whatever truth exists, get in the way of a good story...If we don't have decent myth then all we are stuck with is excel spreadsheets and some story about Uncle Manny having a stroke while over-hauling the lawn mower."
Very nice way to put it. The "myths" and probably over-romanticized tales of an earlier generation of climbers motivated me to start climbing.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
I like Ed Hartouni's description because how it transcends. His description leaves the door open.
I don't like myths ........
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2007 - 12:47pm PT
|
John,
It sounds like you are looking for a slogan more than a credo.
Actually, I'm not looking for anything in particular. It's interesting to see the perspectives offered here.
So far as the non-club, anti-organization of the Stonemasters not totally demolishing standards, consider Tobin's first trip to the Alps (I believe in '76???). He warms up by free soloing the N. Face of the Matterhorn in jeans and a sweatshirt. Moves onto the first continuous ascent of the Eiger Direct, then the Super Col. on the Dru (then the hardest ice climb in the Alps and one of the first time people bivyed hanging off ice screws), and on and on and on. Considering he was doing things like Tales of Power, Astroman and the Shield back in Yosemite, and was starting to rip it up on big mountains as well, the guy was almost certainly the grestest all around climber during the later 70s.
And the Stonemasters were not limited to climbing, remember. Consider the adventure and exploring expeditions to Papua New Guinea, Irian Jaya, Borneo, North Pole and so forth.
These were all new things when first done.
JL
|
|
bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
|
|
Maybe some words from Jimi will help the creative process...
"Here I come to save the day
A little boy inside a dream just the other day
His mind fell out of his face and the wind blew it away
A hand came out from heaven and pinned a badge on his chest
It said get out there, man, and do your best
They call him astro man
And he's flyin higher than
That faggot superman ever could..."
 Hendrix
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Yeah that's it Bachar.
That's that Hendrix song you guys always blasted at the base when we went climbing. Back then I never knew the lyrics to that song.
All I heard was this loud ass screeching coming out of that boom box driving me nuts with noisy distraction because of my shitty ears.
|
|
Gordon
Trad climber
South Florida
|
|
John, here's my unsolicited two-bits worth (from your notes):
"A few boys once dodged a fifth and a girl in her panties before riding a Pinto into The Basement. There, September '72, lightning struck. The Stonemaster emerged and changed it all, forever. With balls the size of a burden and no way to bail, we chased our own stories up on the High Lonesome, pushing past busted bodies and a brother lost. Past generations stepped aside as dangerous dreams and a bit of madness gave rise to a new era in climbing. A rockin’ time it was.
The Stonemaster still awaits those who dare to be touched by his restless spirit."
|
|
flyingkiwi1
Trad climber
Seattle WA
|
|
What a great thread!
Hobo's statement about honesty in writing applies well to Largo's, and applies well - well beyond.
I believe that people of all stripes look, consciously or not, for honest expression in life. Some genres of expression work better for some people than others. But within a preferred genre, the purer an expressor or group of expressors (call em artists) can distill their groove, the more the genre-philes dig it.
I think the Stonemasters must have had one damfine distilled ultrapure flow of a groove goin on for a while back then, because I know that groove influenced me and countless others down the decades.
As for your credo - well, I think Michael Stipe said something like, "We are not the last best writers of these songs." So know that people will find in your honesty, your groove, that which works for them, and the degree to which it bears resemblance to the track you laid may vary. But I'm really digging the distillation process here, because I know that in the end you're gonna bust a stonemonster paragraph for the stone ages, and I am gonna love reading it.
Ian
|
|
captain chaos
climber
|
|
I remember when I first went to the valley, Bridwell took McKinney and I there to go climbing in the early, early 70's like 71/72... somewhere in that time range. I remember my first encounters with some of his climbing buddies or should I say family... who happened to be Kauk, Werner, Worrall, Largo, Billy Westbay, Dale Bard, Chapman, Bachar, Graham, Pettigrew, Yabo, Clevenger, Dave Yearian, Cashner, and more. I remember all these guys hanging out together like one big family, and most lived there pretty much all year long. Everyone was young, really young... basically most had just fallen out of the nest, I remember the energy everyone had as being this indescribable powerful full on go for it attitude, I was blown away by the juice that was flowing from all these wild young guns who were breaking the laws of physics by pushing the past climbing standards to new limits and living the Camp 4 lifestyle of this era of new age climbers to its fullest. In time, I became very good friends with all your guys, did some climbing with you, sking with you, partied with you, and spent much of my life around many of you, it was one of the best, most inspiring and memorable times of my life, and I often think about those days and miss them dearly, but the memory lives, the spirit lives and that spirit should it be called anything may as well be called the Stonemaster spirit. This time I am talking about was a very special time, the people of this time and you know who you are were extremely gifted, talented and special people doing extraordinary things during an extraordinary time. In time everyone went their own way, but here on the Supertopo, a gathering is taking place and its great to see everyone coming together and telling some of these old stories, as those days and the people during those times need to be remembered and the stories need to be told and recorded, and I take my hat off to you Largo for standing up and taking charge, as this period of time was too special and too good to be forgotten. So, for all my Stonemaster brothers out there, know I think about you and those days all the time, they were a great moment in my life, all of you guys are great. And Kevin, anytime you want your ass kicked in the Merced again, let me know and I'll thrash your ass up and down the river like I did way back when... tu hermano- Craig
|
|
CF
climber
|
|
Here is the bolt next to Midnight Lightning from different years.
1980 sometime
1/25/01
10/26/02
Ron Kauk 1980 something
|
|
Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
|
|
Brings to mind an old bit from a Mountain Gazette:
These men were hard men. They liked their eggs hardboiled and their women hard hearted. They didn't wear underwear, they wore hardware. These men were hard to believe.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Yeah
Hard to believe.
Do you believe any of this bullsh'it?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Rojox
No way, you didn't insult at all.
I was just joking with my above bullsh'it comment.
It had nothing to do with you.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2007 - 03:14am PT
|
Yes Tobin was a star. There were also lots of good climbers showing up all over, though. Charlie Fowler, for example, in the mid-later '70s, free soloing DNB and Diamond, sight leading 5.12s, repeating Breashears' unprotected Perilous Journey, etc. etc. He went on, of course, to do anything he took a liking to in the way of mountaineering and alpinism, an incredible final resume. Did the first hammerless ascent of the Shield... I could name others of that kind of raw talent, not forgetting Hot Henry even, but also boulderers, such as Jim Holloway, who could clean up on just about anyone at will... Greg Lowe would not climb for a year, then put a rope on and sight lead the first ascent of some overhanging 5.12... The Stonemasters were brilliant, indeed, but had no monopoly on brilliance. It was all over Europe and England too, shining strong...
|
|
captain chaos
climber
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2007 - 03:43am PT
|
Kevanos... your right, I almost forgot- their were some nice g-g-g-girls at that party, what da fuc were we doing thrashing ourselves in the river when these beauties were just sitting there waiting to be taken away to the nearest stenchy old tent? I'm sure Brid took complete advantage of our normal predator abilities while being tied up in a river wrestling match, and made off with a few of the beauties and kept them all to himself. And your right, I think it was a draw... but I only because we both got thirsty and needed some mo beers, and began thinking about the girls Brid was making off with. Those were great days, times and good memories... I always loved my spring and fall pilgrimage to the valley, you guys always welcomed us with open arms, and helped me on my fledgling el cap climbs always happy to hand out gear I needed for the climb, I remember Warner always being generous with his biners and pins (thanks again Werner) and Kauk always let me use his ledge (I believe one of first ones Graham ever made) which I of course thrashed but he never complained once. Great days and great times... maybe a get together with everyone from that time needs to be organized? I don't know if it would ever happen, but it would be great if it did... we could pick up where we left off in the river, wha da ya say- Calanamoku
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2007 - 10:07am PT
|
I think what sometimes gets lost in the discussion here is that far above and beyond the Stonemaster's technical talents were the attitudes that, taken in block, were so influential. Hence the line: "Clothes, attitudes, even language morphed into a live thing that charged from Newport Beach to Chamonix."
The most amazing thing perhaps is that the non-club and non-organization of the Stonemasters was totally inclusive of anyhone who happened to be around. I remember Billy Westbay and I joining two Japanese climbers on a trip up the Column the frist hour they showed up in Camp 4. They wandered into camp under these huge haul bags and all they had was an old topo for the Column, which they showed Billy. He said he knew the route and would show them right then and there. He got me and we were off.
So if anyone is feeling excluded or one-upped by anything said by or about the Stonemasters, I trust you've missed the spirit of the non-movement, which was a community fandango, not a technical exercise carried out by various isloated individuals doing largely specialized activities.
JL
|
|
captain chaos
climber
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2007 - 11:34am PT
|
John... your exactly right and that's what I was talking about when I said you guys always welcomed us with open arms and were always willing to help, regardless of who it was... it was the spirit of the time and of that group, which made the whole situation unique and special.
|
|
graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2007 - 11:44am PT
|
So if anyone is feeling excluded or one-upped by anything said by or about the Stonemasters, I trust you've missed the spirit of the non-movement, which was a community fandango, not a technical exercise carried out by various isloated individuals doing largely specialized activities.
Well said John
I want to invite everyone to read a great story about a generational return to El Cap.
Salathe Wall 2001 along with other good reads which cross State boundaries and beyond
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2007 - 02:02pm PT
|
Getting John Long's original thought stream forged into a fluid and accessible form is a venerable task.
What's at stake here is this balance between individual or group achievement and that fuzzy line which blends towards the receptiveness of others, transforming such an experience into a contribution.
Any time you watched Yabo, grip, snarl and style his way up something, there were two things happening: his own highly invested experience on the one hand and our uptake of that on the other, the hallmark of that collusion is an inspirational legacy shared by all involved.
Much in the way a painting is experienced or the written word is interpreted; it's the apprehension, the appreciation of art, this act completes the loop and adds so much more dimension to the artistic experience than the isolated piece as end unto itself, because there is a secondary aspect of creation in which the viewer partakes, adding it to their own cache of possibilities and moving forward with new ideas, sensations, and actions.
That to me is what this is all about, that's why we all own it.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!