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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 12, 2019 - 11:46am PT
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People spread lies, hate, fear.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 12, 2019 - 11:56am PT
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Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey was recently asked about how Twitter "reliably lands on one side of the political divide".
Dorsey's response: “I don’t believe that we can afford to take a neutral stance anymore. I don’t believe that we should optimize for neutrality.”
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Feb 12, 2019 - 11:59am PT
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“CNN Purchases Industrial-Sized Washing Machine To Spin News Before Publication."
Troll. Satire. Either way, it's funny and that's a fact.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Feb 12, 2019 - 12:02pm PT
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Newsflash for the real butthurt snowflakes: no one cares about the confederate statues more than your torchmobs and certainly no one rational cares about your concern that a privately held company does not coddle your free speech on their platform like this is some kind of nanny state. Go tune in to EIB.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Feb 12, 2019 - 02:10pm PT
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Bots and hostile countries start what then People spread lies, hate, fear.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 12, 2019 - 05:25pm PT
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I remember seeing the stories being pushed in FB during the election run-up. It was in the right sidebar and very prevelant. If I recall right, it was even headed with "News Stories" or something similar, at first. There was a time I even read the stories to keep up on current events.
It wasn't political in the beginning, but you could filter to focus on the category of politics.
When I started seeing what I saw as questionable reporting in some of the articles, and misleading headlines(you'd click expecting to read about some topic and the story was barely related to it), I realized I'd taken the easy way out and stopped paying attention. Also around that time was when the stories began to lean toward topics that would be upsetting. I got a lot of animal abuse stories shown to me.
Remember? When it came out that FB was experimenting with emotional content by showing stories that the algs found were upsetting topics for specific people? That was before the '16 campaign really began, and people were rightly posses that FB was intentionally playing a psych experiment on us.
Then, I started to notice people had begun sharing inflammatory stories which weren't news, really, but from what seemed to be homebrew newsish groups and bloggers. That was during campaign. There was a LOT of Hillary Hate.
On a tangent, back about summer 2015, my nephew posted something on his FB. It was a way to make money via your FB Pages. For those who don't know, a FB Page in separate from your personal one. It can be a business page, a community page such as "Climb On California!" Or about some hobby. Anything really.
The thing was that you agreed to let this entity(which he never identified other than making it seem like an entrepreneurial friend of a friend a few friends removed) sign on as as Admin to you page, and they would, on occasion, post advertorial type of content. You would receive $50 for allowing this.
I posted that this was not a good idea, and explained why, since an admin can remove the original page owner as admin, basically locking them out of the page...and boy did my nephew get mad. He was to get money also from any page that signed on to this through the link he provided.
Now the interesting thing is, my nephew actually lived in St. Petersburg shortly after the USSR fell. He was 12 when he moved there, with his parents who were sent to try to develop business in the wood products industry. My nephew was pretty wild during those years, and came back as a minor punk rock fringe celebrity(he was/is the lead singer for "Pink Reason."
The FB money scheme was through his network from Russia.
He ended up pulling the post after a few days, and I thought maybe he had come to realize it wasn't a kosher thing. I never talked to him about it.
Looking back, I would say almost with certainty that this was at least an attempted avenue to gain access to people via FB stories. Once the content was added to some persons FB page, bits would interact to amplify the story.
You all can pooh pooh the idea of FB spreading lies all you want. It already been documented and proven to have happened. What impetus is there to deny it? Seriously?
Unless one thinks they were too smart to have fallen for such a thing... Well, we did fall for it.
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Trump
climber
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Feb 13, 2019 - 08:39am PT
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“Armies of moderators.” Great idea! Let’s start on Supertopo and see how we respond. I vote for non-authoritarian left leaning moderators, as long as they approve of what I have to say.
Facebook offers a great opportunity for people to act like people, and for people to notice the tribally self-promoting ways that people act, if we’re so inclined to notice that kind of thing. But I think it’s a pretty hard thing to objectively notice when it’s being manifested in ourselves and our own self-approving Facebook tribe.
The reason that people can look at the misery and suffering of children ripped from their parents and placed into detention camps and simply shrug is because of disinformation?
Maybe, but the information that I tend to notice is that people often don’t act in the righteously idealized altruistic ways that we prefer to believe people actually factually do act. Have we noticed the stuff lurking underneath the surface of the Virginia leadership, the subtle and not so subtle ways we good people try to advantage ourselves based on the superiority of our race, or our gender?
Who knows, maybe you’re a people too. I sure am! We might not have evolved to thrive in this kind of informational environment, but here we are nonetheless. People just aren’t so keen to let truth get in the way of our self-interested survival of me the fittest, even in my righteous tribe. If a little disinformation helps us not see the stuff about ourselves that we don’t want to see, it just makes it that much easier to believe it.
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Zay
climber
Monterey, Ca
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Feb 13, 2019 - 01:17pm PT
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I dont know what makes me more sick... Facebook's ability to tear us apart, politically... or my addiction to it.
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2019 - 03:49pm PT
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I actually agree with you Trump. Edit: well hmmm uh on some points, not sure, have a nice day?
Using FB as sociological tool to understanding human behavior is one thing.
FB using the information it gathers to manipulate, the rats in the cage (so to speak), is another.
Hate, like Hysteria, is contagious and spreads rapidly eg the picture of the smiling boy with the maga hat facing the native with the drum. Many people reflexively jumped to conclusions based only on a picture. eg WMD's hysteria---never found any.
Society actually gives up some freedoms so they may enjoy others eg submit to search before being allowed to board a plane.
It is not considered a legally binding contract if the person signing a contract doesn't fully understand what it is they are agreeing to.
A lawyer friend randomly opened one of his law books and read a paragraph out of it---he didn't understand a word of it.
I'm arguing technology is forcing us to agree to things we would not otherwise agree to. eg no one is forcing us to use a smart phone but for many it would be economic suicide to try and operate w/o it---you are forced to pay to play.
Very soon, if not already, the consumer will be economically forced into using a smartphone---you will have to pay to save at the self checkout counter. And you agree to give up your privacy. To me this is economic coercion.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 13, 2019 - 03:59pm PT
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hey there say, ... as to original post:
yes, it can and does-- as all media, sadly, can and does...
(not saying this is good)
and,tv and movies...
the trouble is, it is 'fast to do it' , and daily (with online)...
i started to use facebook, as to keep in touch with my children and
friends, far away...
it was able to share photos and talk, more, and see each other,
better than email:
i do not regret it, as, live is all we have here
in this world, that has changed too fast, around us:
we live, a step at a time...
my friends, are closer knit, now, with more, the more i get to share
and know them... and, help them...
still-- it is good to be reminded...
the worse thing is:
as someone already stated:
PEOPLE spread lies, hate, and fear...
it has moved through neighborhoods, by way of 'the local gossipers'
throughout their front-and-back yards, or, by peering out windows...
or--
by telephone, and/or at neighborhood 'bridge' or 'poker' parties,
and, even birthday parties for little kids...
and/or:
local pup...
at the local bowling alley...
local grocery stores (a big one)...
local etc, etc...
and, long ago, it HAS lead to 'witch hunts' and lynching...
and, running folks out of the neighborhood...
EITHER by smoldering embers of gossip, or, by
rampant flames of it...
all without people on facebook...
sadly, (not to make us live in fear though) but, just think
how much MORE so, PEOPLE can do this now-a-days...
politic/propaganda, etc, AS WELL-- has moved from newspapers, magazines, tv, to-- online...
what's a human to do... :(
do the best we can... pray...
listen, study...
teach our kids to be careful...
and, learn what info is 'doing dirty work out there'...
:(
i don't know...
:(
people have not changed through time, have they...
as to these 'sins' ...
:(
EDIT:
but-- more POWERFUL stuff is going on, behind the scenes...
:(
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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Feb 13, 2019 - 04:30pm PT
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Do a search for LifeLog.
Look at the date that program ended.
Look at the date Fakebook started.
Look up the funding for both.
That’s all you need to know.
Does
A
Real
Person
Assimilate?
Lambs to the slaughter...
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2019 - 04:35pm PT
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DMT well, so it goes. Turn the heat up slowly, no one will notice. :(
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Trump
climber
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:14am PT
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Yea it always seems to me to come down to It’s not my fault! And I think there are things about me as a human that I don’t really want to have to acknowledge, so I’m often looking for somewhere else to put the blame. A lot of the time I as a human seem to blame other people for behaving in very similar ways to the way I behave, while not noticing (or giving myself a pass) for behaving that way. I think kind of an extension of that others blaming is saying that it’s the environment’s fault - that Facebook is setting up this environment that’s coercing us to behave a certain (bad) way.
I don’t know - I think that comes from us. Why we behave the way we behave - yea, to a very large extent, I think that IS just a result of the way the environment has molded us humans to behave. Lots of wacky sh#t goes on in people’s brains because it works out for them to have that wacky sh#t go on in their heads. I’m usually trying to not blame other people for the wacky sh#t that goes on in their heads while I also don’t notice the wacky sh#t that goes on in my head, because that just seems self-interestedly hypocritical to me. But yea, I do believe in a larger sense that the reason humans act like humans is because the environment made us that way, so no escaping it for me either.
We all have this self-interested little self-affirming sh#t that goes on in our thinking constantly. It’s how we work. We have this tribal social stuff that can manifest itself in kind of good and kind of bad ways, and we’ve got these subtle little confirmation biased ways of thinking where we’re always trying to prove to ourselves that we’re right. We might be able to notice it when it gets bad enough like Facebook is, but I think that stuff is constantly at work in all of us if you look hard enough for it. And that’s not what we prefer to believe about ourselves - it’s just not advantageous for us to believe it about ourselves.
The way I try to think about it is that if I notice it in other people, it’s probably also something in myself that I’m just not noticing.
Thanks for your posts!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:31am PT
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What this place (and FB I can only presume) needs is a brevity moderator,
as well as more cow bells, of course.
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Trump
climber
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:35am PT
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Right? Why don’t other people make it so when I click on a link, it just doesn’t take me there?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Feb 15, 2019 - 12:15pm PT
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No. It is a marketing machine, and that machine doesn't give a tinker's dam about truth or justice. Which is the american way, if you really think about it.
Don't like it? Don't log in.
DMT
DMT,
I don't find it surprising that FB does what it does. Just like if you didn't regulate coal plants, they wouldn't spend money on filters to reduce acid rain.
But I don't think we have to shrug and accept it. Given how big FB is, I don't have a conceptual problem with regulating it. You can go down the road that the EU is doing with general privacy laws that FB has to follow. Or you could treat it as a regulated monopoly.
Now on a practical level, it is a really difficult field to come up with workable regulations, as the EU is finding out. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. And that doesn't mean that elected representatives and the regulatory bodies they create, can't try and make it better.
FB doesn't have a constitutional right to be free of regulations.
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2019 - 02:51pm PT
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Thanks August West.
The way I try to think about it is that if I notice it in other people, it’s probably also something in myself that I’m just not noticing.
Thanks for your posts!
Likewise Trump. One finger pointing and four pointing back.
I'm dealing with IBS and it messes with my sleep, causing foggy head. Gut health is way more important than most ever knew.
60 years of junk food: junk input=junk output. Har Har.
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fragglerockjoe
Trad climber
space-man from outer space
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Feb 15, 2019 - 09:05pm PT
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Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it? No sensei!
Hate does not exist in this dojo, does it? No sensei!
Lies does not exist in this dojo, does it? No sensei!
Then what is the problem,Mr. Lawrence?
Lmfao
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