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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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What "proof" would you recognize beyond a physical cause?
I don't know yet , what have you got?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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I have to take exception with some of what Norton said.
Bipedalism came long before the enlargement of the brain.
Austrolopithecines and early members of the species Homo had small brains. They lasted for two million years of bipedalism before the brain began to grow. he is correct however, that it grew rapidly once they became skilled hunters around half a million years ago. Neanderthal brains were actually larger on the average than modern H. sapiens.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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I think I got what Largo was going for there.
One example might be this. Now that I’m retired and living in the desert, I remember when I was a kid in Oklahoma, we’d stay out late at nights in the summer because it would finally cool down. The night was always magical: cars, girls, beer, a soft summer breeze, the cooling of the ground. I remember doing everything in cars driving around . . . the warm dry air blowing in the windows, and feeling cut-loose and free from our parents and society. The car did much all of that for us.
I’ve read about the impacts of light on the chemistry of the body, but I don’t care. I want to enjoy the night’s magic and to hell with the science. I think I can ignore it. Do you? Is everything lock-step cause and effect? I see from my point of view that there is an immense amount of sloppiness in the mechanics of the universe. If one doesn’t force conclusions to be consonant with one’s beliefs, would an empiricist see any “magic?” Could they? Or is the notion out of the question?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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sure you can.
does science harsh your mellow?
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nafod
Boulder climber
State college
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Jun 10, 2018 - 05:10am PT
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Because of the delay that must come from processing sense data and acting on it, we literally live in the past. It takes a finite unavoidable amount of time for a signal from your eyes, ears, toes to get to your noggin.
Yet we need to live in the “right now” in order to survive, for obvious reasons. Need to dodge a rock dropping towards us, etc. So if we are stuck in the past but need to live in the present, then we have to construct a future that it feels like we live in, constantly updating it as we go along to make it match the data.
Modern weather forecasting runs a continual simulation of the world, modeling it out hours to weeks ahead, continually updating the prediction of the future (to include the present) as actual sense perceptions. Further, they let the predictions of the future guide what measurements to take.
Humans have as many nerve paths going out to the senses as coming back in. In order to “be” in the actual moment, we have a simulation of the present we are living in continually running. That simulation tells us what to focus our finite resources on. This (I think) plays a huge, central role in the construction of “mind”.
There was a fun experiment done some time ago where pro baseball players went up against female softball pitcher. She threw underhand as per softball. Their prediction machine had no model to run, so to speak. No way to process the clues. No way to construct a future that let them know in advance, working off of cues of arm motion, where the ball would be so they could put the bat there. They could only react. She tore them up. :)
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:21am PT
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Koko the gorilla was asked about the stroboscope effect and the response was:
"bring me one and I'll try it". Then laughing sign and "all speculation".
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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I see from my point of view that there is an immense amount of sloppiness in the mechanics of the universe.
I see that, too. When I look around my room.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:31am PT
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There goes Ed, bringing Lie groups into the discussion again.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jun 10, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
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I’ve read about the impacts of light on the chemistry of the body, but I don’t care. I want to enjoy the night’s magic and to hell with the science. I think I can ignore it. Do you? Is everything lock-step cause and effect? I see from my point of view that there is an immense amount of sloppiness in the mechanics of the universe. If one doesn’t force conclusions to be consonant with one’s beliefs, would an empiricist see any “magic?” Could they? Or is the notion out of the question?
Good luck to anyone who might be forced to unpack this paragraph against their will.Lol.
Don't worry overly much MikeL. You can always blindly bungle your way into a modicum of fairly good health and clear thinking-- as you have clearly done by moving from a higher latitude to a much lower one. Ignoring the science, as you put it, is probably good in your case, and quite natural; after all you have painstakingly conditioned your mind to those ends.
Anyone who feels compelled to ignore this stuff does so at their own peril, especially in today's world. Speaking for myself, I am a garden-variety mitochondriac who finds it doubly hard to live with ignorance about such things-- my own ignorance and the ignorance of others.
My chief value is to relay certain forms of knowledge that could be of use to others. It is not an ego trip, nor a do-Gooder project. I don't particularly like having to do it , truth be told.
You can enjoy your nights all you want. But just remember this: exposure to blue light after the sun goes down seriously disrupts cellular autophagy and apoptosis. These are the two main processes which your body uses for repair and replacement of dysfunctional components and the inhibition of cancer.
Get a pair of blue blocker glasses.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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Neanderthal brains were actually larger on the average than modern H. sapiens.
The larger brain volume is due to the occipital bun being larger. Neanderthals lived during periods of intense glaciation in Europe. The living conditions were dark and handsome, to say the least. Neanderthal survival depended upon acquiring a certain base level of visual acuity at very low light conditions pertaining over hundreds of thousands of years.
Another bit of recent Neanderthal news has been the discovery that our nearest cousins had reached the island of Crete. No big surprise there. The mousterian toolkit ( Neanderthal technology) is more.than up to the job of making boats for the voyage. Leaving Greece the currents are all favorable. It is even possible to island hop half of the way!
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
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You modern gross materialists are still Neanderthals.
Most likely even worse than Neanderthals.
You haven't advanced one bit.
All you've done is devolved into putting lipstick on a dead body.
Wasted gross materialists ......
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jun 10, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
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Very good, Ward. Thx for the reply.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:01pm PT
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Very good, Ward. Thx for the reply.
And thank you MikeL.
The best of health to you and your loved ones.
Most likely even worse than Neanderthals.
Poor Neanderthals.
They go extinct and 40k years later are further disparaged by being compared to modern scientists.
Neanderthal child reconstructed from skull fragments:
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Jun 11, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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Ward, that guy with the stick looks like he's crankin' a stinky!
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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The gross materialists only use their two eyes.
Animals only use their two eyes.
But a human being (not the gross materialists as they animals still or Neanderthals) use their third eye.
That's one of the many which distinguishes a human being from an animal.
The gross materialists are just in animal consciousness and are clueless while masquerading themselves as authoritative ......
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Jun 13, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
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But a human being (not the gross materialists as they animals still or Neanderthals) use their third eye.
Ward might agree with you, but include other vertebrates as well.
From the point of view of biological evolution, the pineal gland represents a kind of atrophied photoreceptor. In the epithalamus of some species of amphibians and reptiles, it is linked to a light-sensing organ, known as the parietal eye, which is also called the pineal eye or third eye.
from Wikipedia
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jun 13, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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The mind your repository of learned wisdom.
Caveate: Words you don't understand make blank spots in the memory banks.
And another: The Soul carries with it a dark tormented past from previous lives that can warp the thinking. example: If you are frothing rabidly about what I just said, that is what I am talking about.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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MH2 your description of the third eye is all material.
The third eye I'm talking about is NOT material but linked to the spiritual soul Atma and Parmatma ......
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