Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Jun 13, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
|
counterjihad.com
Seriously? Make no mistake - the 'counter jihad' movement clowns - aka neocons - such David Horowitz and his ilk are a menace. Their pre-emptive wars in Afghanistan and Iraq ARE the reason for the rise of isis and they very much bear heavy responsibility for the Orlando and similar attacks. They are incredibly dangerous people as far as I'm concerned and posting up their bullshit as any form of 'reason' or reasoned response to Orlando is just plain sad.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
|
|
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
|
Homosexual acts are a sin...but so is heterosexual sex outside of marriage.
Here's another view of what the bible actually says:
http://visionsofdaniel.net/paperStPaulOnSex.htm
Saint Paul's Surprisingly Positive Outlook on Sex
Contemporary study of the Bible uses "historical-critical method." It proposes that the ancient texts mean what their authors originally intended, as best as can be determined, and not what a 21-Century reader would make of the texts in translation. On this basis, it appears that Saint Paul held a surprisingly positive outlook on sex (Countryman, 2007).
Paul was engaged in "culture wars" between Jewish and Gentile converts to Christianity. He struggled to reconcile the rampant sexual practices of the Gentiles with the more reverential attitude of the Jews. He had to sort out the cultural taboos of the Gentiles and the purity rules of the Jewish Law, on the one hand, from what he believed to be truly right and wrong, on the other.
The Jewish requirement of circumcision is the easy case in point. Paul argued that, if circumcision is required, salvation through faith in Christ is forfeited (Galatians 5:2-6). But stickier sexual questions remained. Four examples are illustrative.
First, in a long discussion of sex in 1 Corinthians 5-8, Paul compares eating food with having sex. He seems to anticipate our contemporary psychological understanding that human sexuality has profound interpersonal implications; it is not a merely biological function. Thus, Paul argued, food is meant for the stomach, but sex is "for the Lord," for "your [plural] body is a temple for the Holy Spirit" (6:12 -20). Using Christian symbols, Paul was pointing out the lofty nature of human sexuality. It entails interpersonal matters and carries moral consequences. It is a spiritual reality. It is even a social issue, for "the body" about which Paul spoke was the "one body in Christ" that all Christians make up. Paul taught that sex is best expressed in stable relationships that foster and support communal order and cohesion. Therefore, he wrote, "Shun harlotry" ( 6:18 —interestingly, Paul did not say it is wrong, evil, or forbidden, but to be avoided: it is not the ideal), for it is a passing event that makes no lasting contribution to the betterment of society; it is wasteful; it offends against "the body."
Nonetheless, second, Paul had no concern for procreation. He literally believed the world would end during his lifetime, so he advised against any new enterprises, including marriage and business ( 7:29 -31), and he advocated celibacy. Yet this is the context of Paul's notorious comment, "Better to marry than to burn [with passion]" (7:9). Far from demeaning sex, Paul was recommending it for people with intense sexual urges, not for having children, but for the pleasure, comfort, and mutual bonding that sex provides. He was probably influenced by the Song of Songs, a collection of blatantly erotic-romantic poetry that somehow made its way into the Bible, also never mentions procreation, and portrays sexual lovers as equals because of their passion for each other.
Third, Paul seems not even to insist that sex belongs only in heterosexual marriage. Except among the wealthy, marriage was not a regulated institution in his day, in any case, and a strong argument can be made that Paul allowed same-sex relationships. In Romans 1:18-32, he portrays two results of the idolatry of the Gentiles, that is, their not following the religion of Israel. Verses 24 to 27 explicitly name "impurity," and sexual practices provide the example. Paul describes these acts in terms that apply to social taboos: degrading, shameful, atypical. (The traditional unnatural of 1:26 must be a mistranslation, for the same term is applied to God's doings in 11:24.) In contrast, verses 18-23 and 28-32, before and after the section on sex, contain numerous ethical terms: ungodliness, wickedness, base minds, evil, improper conduct. This contrast could hardly be accidental. A climactic statement of Paul's overall argument states his point: "Nothing is unclean in itself" (14:14). Paul, as all the ancient rabbis, understood the prohibition of Leviticus 18:22 ("With a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman," that is, you shall not have penetrative sex: no other male-male sex was forbidden) to be a matter of Jewish purity or religious taboo, not something wrong in itself.
Finally, unlike others who wrote in his name (1 Timothy 2:11-15 and the interpolation in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35), Paul was no misogynist. The final chapter of Romans commends 29 disciples by name. Ten are women. Three of them—Phoebe, Prisca, and Junia—were leaders in their churches, "pastors," in today's terminology.
The sex-negativity that has dominated the Christian tradition is not rooted in the Bible. Rather, it has its roots in the philosophies, especially Stoicism and Neo-Platonism (Boswell, 1980), that shaped Christianity in the second to fourth centuries.
That should send you scrambling to your Gideon.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
|
Thanks, John E, that was gracious of you.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
|
Jody, you're right. God bless.
|
|
nah000
climber
no/w/here
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:26am PT
|
surprise:
The gunman who attacked a Florida LGBT nightclub had attended the club before the attack and had used a gay dating and chat app, witnesses said.
Kevin West, a regular at Pulse nightclub, said Omar Mateen messaged him on and off for a year before the shooting using the gay chat and dating app Jack’d.
But they never met – until early Sunday morning.
West was dropping off a friend at the club when he noticed Mateen – whom he knew by sight but not by name – crossing the street wearing a dark cap and carrying a black cellphone about 1 a.m., an hour before the shooting.
“He walked directly past me. I said, ‘Hey,’ and he turned and said, ‘Hey,’” and nodded his head, West said. “I could tell by the eyes.”
it'd be so much easier if these fUcktards were just a part of isis... directed by a hierarchy to attack our freedoms...
but no... it's looking like he's just another garden variety closet case who unlike the typical garden variety ended up im/ex-ploding...
but let's ban muslims and turn a bit of sand to glass, as the potential leaders like to either say or at least imply...
that'll surely fix this once and for all.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 04:41am PT
|
The guy couldn't come to grips with his own gayness, and lost it.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:09am PT
|
Ha! I called it first. What do I win?
I've known a couple truly rabid anti-gay guys who had that rage. Always wondered if deep down inside they looked at a cheese filled hotdog differently than most if us. So much waste simply because he couldn't reconcile the truth.
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:44am PT
|
Hate begets hate and love begets love. Let's strive to be on the kind side of things, ok?
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:55am PT
|
So, semantics are important in this case. I was in your camp until I gained some insight and remembered that cultural respect is very important.
Calling anything violent carried out in the name of Allah 'Radical Islam' is disingenuous, as it bundles Islam into what has been done. This is a disgrace to the 99.9% of Muslim adherents. Calling it 'Radical Islamism' is akin to naming Warren Jeffs as a Mormon.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:16am PT
|
Worse a few self-appointed as#@&%es use these kinds of incidents to further their personal agendas. See how quickly they 'lay blame' on this or that person or entity; absent facts of course.
I won't call any names out, they already did that to themselves. Lol one guy in his first of many posts, called me to task for calling him a bigot in other posts and threads where he explicitly attacks both religion and the religious. He wasted no time at all in directing the mob's attention to his usual suspects.
A different kind of mis-informed and holier-than-thou.
Cheers though.
|
|
Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:01am PT
|
Its Men.
Bully men.
Us.
Knowitall
Spoiled
Boys.
We are cowards.
Afraid of everything.
Cry
Cry
Cry.
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:07am PT
|
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:34am PT
|
Just a few points of technical accuracy regarding statements made about firearms:
The M1 Garand rifle is loaded using an 8 round "en-bloc charger." The Army considered a maximum rate of fire to be 16-24 rounds per minute for aimed fire (capable of hitting a target, and not spraying bullets), Here's the rationale: Starting with a fully loaded weapon; target acquisition: 2-3 seconds. Fire 8 somewhat aimed shots = 24 seconds, then charger eject. Grab a new charger and insert, jack the action to close the bolt 4 seconds. Repeat process. Average well trained rifleman in a stressful combat situation can deliver 20 rounds per minute of effective fire. The Garand had substantial recoil, jumping the sight picture off target and required re-acquisition every time.
The AR 15 is a slightly different story, but it too is SEMI AUTOMATIC; i.e. a self-loader. The full military version, either the current M4 or the older M16 is fed by either 20 round or 30 round box magazines. Unless one is very highly trained and capable of ejecting a magazine without looking, and then inserting another the same way, the average shooter is doing good to eject magazine, load a new one, fire, eject--repeat, more than 2 rounds a second. This shooting 16 rounds a second is beyond the human nervous system to accomplish, since a single pull of the trigger is required for each and every shot fired. A realistic ultimate rate of fire is more like 2 or fewer rounds per second, and probably no more than fired by a 1940 designed M1 Garand. Only time saved and ROF increase is in the magazine change time; possibly for a well trained military marksman, the time between effective shots would drop and instead of needing 2-3 seconds for target acquisition, might be more like 1.5 to 2 seconds from lowered recoil effects.
Don't try to BS me, brother; I've "been there, done that." As I stated in an earlier post, I am competent with every weapon in the Army inventory, and then some, including a lot of Russian/German/British firearms. If I had to go to war in defense of my country, my firearms skills are still there, even though my body is a decrepit wreck.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:34am PT
|
Remember that time an atheist went on a shooting spree because the rest of the world didn't conform to his ideology? Yeah, Me neither...
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:38am PT
|
When I was in the Army, we would tape two 18 round mags, back to back and you could switch to the second one quickly. It was the third magazine that would take a little time to grab.
My Orlando acquaintances, say they are looking for two more perps and wonder why it isn't National or we haven't seen it. Hard to see the fire for all the smoke.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:43am PT
|
Fvck religion and fvck Donald Trump.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:44am PT
|
Remember that time an atheist went on a shooting spree because the rest of the world didn't conform to his ideology? Yeah, Me neither...
A real theist would never do such a thing.
Thus everyone of these so called shooters are in true sense atheists, masquerading as theists ......
|
|
Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:47am PT
|
Not really. Gods and killing are a match made in heaven.
Why does this God friend of yours go on so many murderous rampages? Your God does this, right? Or has God lost control to the NRA? Funny math.
|
|
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:48am PT
|
BD, a packed nightclub doesn't require much target acquisition time or skills.
In the opening salvo, the audio shows he got off about 18 shots in 5 seconds with a 1 second pause in there.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|