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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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May 17, 2016 - 09:36am PT
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Well here, let Mr. Black explain the connection between religion and culture. OK...he sort of explains it ;)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 17, 2016 - 10:16am PT
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HFCS: Most people I relate to . . . .
(Ahem.)
cintune: It's almost like religion was some sort of... sacred cow... or something.
Why stop stop there with religion? (You’re just making a joke, right?)
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WBraun
climber
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May 17, 2016 - 10:20am PT
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Fruitcake is just like klimmer only on the other side of the extreme fence.
Only klimmer has balls.
He's not a coward .....
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 17, 2016 - 10:48am PT
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weird guys, for sure.
glad I don't spend a lot of my time in your bubbles
Meet the new boss same as the old one...
Yeah, except for the iron-age supernatural bullsh#t.
no worries about getting your head cut off, milque.
see you in Cairo.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 17, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
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There is in this discourse a lack of distinction between a mystical/religious experience, a personal religion/faith, tenets of a religion, institutions associated with a religion, cultures associated with a religion, and body politics that have institutional religion.
There is also a lack of distinction concerning the ground of philosophy/ethic within a religion and manipulation of religions to justify behaviors, cultures, institution, and politics.
In example, within Islam there is Wahhabism and Sufism.
“Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.”
~ Rumi, Sufi Persian poet
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 17, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
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There is in this discourse a lack of distinction between a mystical/religious experience, a personal religion/faith, tenets of a religion, institutions associated with a religion, cultures associated with a religion, and body politics that have institutional religion.
There is also a lack of distinction concerning the ground of philosophy/ethic within a religion and manipulation of religions to justify behaviors, cultures, institution, and politics.
In example, within Islam there is Wahhabism and Sufism.
So true.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 17, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
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"There is in this discourse a lack of distinction..."
Also so simplistic.
Do you think you could have anything more substantive or in-depth with the dorks, dipshits and dinguses pipin' in after every post?
Besides, to anyone savvy in religions already how is a statement like...
In example, within Islam there is Wahhabism and Sufism.
any more meaningful or indepth than...
In example, within Christendom there is Catholicism and Protestantism.
What, you think we're all high school sophomores here?
Maybe a dipshit or dingus will pipe in with an anwswer?
Nonetheless,
so true....
lol
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 17, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
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HFCS, Your reply is my riposte.
You have made your science your religion....
...and this comes from one who reveres science.
To make science a religion rather than a perspective and practice direspects its' essence. You diminish science by worshipping it.
"Whenever a theory appears to you as the only possible one, take this as a sign that you have neither understood the theory nor the problem which it was intended to solve."
~ Karl Popper
You, also, undermine your arguments through generalizations, dogmatic positions, and disrespectful demeanor for those you debate.
And, the distinctions between Wahhabism and Sufism are astounding compared to those between Catholicism and Protestantism.
A similar but still less divergent would be a comparison between the white supremacism of the Ku Klux Clan and Christian mysticism of Meister Eckhart.
“Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language.”
~ Meister Eckhart
“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”
~ Rumi
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 17, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
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To make science a religion rather than a perspective and practice direspects its essence.
Oh my!
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 17, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
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A similar but still less divergent would be a comparison between the white supremacism of the Ku Klux Clan and Christian mysticism of Meister Eckhart
Far more appropriate.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 17, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
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It's clear the last three simpletons all missed the point. Taken in context, the point was not one concerning violence or compassion but concerning depth of discussion. A comparative religions student just a day in to his studies (cf: years to decades) can distinguish (a) a jain from a wahhabi or (b) catholic from a protestant. Rubes.
You have made your science your religion.... You diminish science by worshiping it
As long as you are prepared to charge Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Steven Weinberg, Brian Cox and Stephen Hawking with same. But know your charge doesn't hold water with umpteen millions and growing.
Also failing to distinguish the lunatic fringe from the crackerjack fringe in a group movement points to further naivete.
You might look again at that list. Insofar as you're accusing me, it looks like I am in good company.
.....
re: disrespectful demeanor
Seriously? Selective memory? Bias?
Suggests you look more closely at the recent posts of wb, dmt, largo, blu... Who sets the tone? Who does the name-calling? lol
Get real.
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WBraun
climber
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May 17, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
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Another fruitcake meltdown over a period of days ever since jgill laid it into him.
The fool melts down every time he goes bananas here with his religion bashing masqueraded as science but never ever takes any responsibility for anything he spews here.
The super out of control egotist anonymous coward veils his lunacy by hiding behind his material YouTube gods he's so brainwashed by ....
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 17, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
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HFCS, I usually hold myself to higher ground....
...but I'm gonna just lay it down straight up...
...you sound like a whiny little bitch.
It's clear the last three simpletons all missed the point.
I don't know about Paul. You're welcome to think of me whatever you want...
John Gill a simpleton? You're delusional.
Rubes
That's just the kind of silly little retort my 5 year old grandson would use if he weren't getting his way - if his vocabulary was up to speed - refer to whiny little bitch above.
"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed."
~ Carl Sagan
"My long-time view about Christianity is that it represents an amalgam of two seemingly immiscible parts, the religion of Jesus and the religion of Paul. Thomas Jefferson attempted to excise the Pauline parts of the New Testament. There wasn't much left when he was done, but it was an inspiring document."
~ Carl Sagan
Note: The Jefferson Bible is a great, if short read. Worth doing if for nothing else than to more than to better appreciate Jefferson and the Enlightement culture of that palce and time.
"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual."
~ Carl Sagan
"The historical record makes clear that religious teaching, example, and leadership are powerfully able to influence personal conduct and commitment... Thus, there is a vital role for religion and science."
~ Carl Sagan
"I'm agnostic."
~ Carl Sagan
Mr. Sagan was a deeper thinker than you - he had a deeper understanding and concept and practice of science.
Don't put yourself in his league.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 17, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
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lol…
(1) We must consider the sources. lol
(2) what's clear is that you several miscreants here can easily be seen in a broader persective to reflect the retrograde forces… to innovation, etc… that our history (history of movements , eg) intimate so well.
(3)
you sound like a whiny little bitch. -Mark Force
Just remember our account then, mf, you started it between us.
To refresh your memory. Are you aware that jgill called me a "bigot" a couple days ago? and what, according to your thinking, I'm supposed to just lie down and take it? ho man.
and on what basis? what evidence? it was totally inappropriate.
Regarding religions, he probably is (edit: a simpleton). I've been studying comparative religions for 20 years, he how much? Let him speak for himself. Here at this site, he has shown zero interest.... and then I get name-calling together with expressions that I'm lying and a coward.
Here (edit: re: Sagan), let me save you some time: You could study Carl Sagan for the next five years and you wouldn't [edit: cover) half my scholarship on the man.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 17, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
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Those are sad little retorts.
And, I go with Mr. Gill. Your generalizations and proclamations smack of bigotry.
Bigotry - intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
If the shoe fits wear it...
...or try something else.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 17, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
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Okay "bigot" how do you like it?
For the record then...
"Your generalizations and proclamations smack of bigotry." -Mark Force
So you speak your true mind then. Okay. Good to know.
For starters, how ironic because the term started with religion on religion violence over who's god was better, else who's beliefs were better.
Second, you're the motherlode of confusion as you're confusing (1) the criticism of Islamic ideas (I am a religous critic) with (2) attacks on believers.
It is very childish and "smacks" if an immaturity in the subject.
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WBraun
climber
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May 17, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
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Yep clueless meltdown ^^^^^
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 17, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
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Yep clueless
Go away, Dipsh#t. You contribute nothing.
Hey why don't you take a moment and remind everybody how
you got that name.
But you do set the tone. and nobody in this group ever calls
you out on it. I say by and large because they're pussies.
You are the number one reason a FEW of us cannot enjoy
a more in-depth conversation because you spoil the thread.
Congrats on that.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 17, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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Richard Dawkins is a smart guy. His book The Magic of Reality was a good read. I think he'd be fun conversation. I don't think he'd make a good friend.
Here's a timely quote -
"Anybody who has something sensible or worthwhile to say should be able to say it calmly and soberly, relying on the words themselves to convey his meaning, without resorting to yelling."
~ Richard Dawkins
I may have some passionate conversations with Werner. But, he's solid and I like him. Stop picking on him.
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