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Nohea
Trad climber
Aiea,Hi
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Oct 21, 2006 - 03:42am PT
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Well if Willi from Hawaii wins all that ice gear...something is wrong but I will enjoy going to Colorado this winter.
Come on folks relax, I didnt like tim from RC, how about the final word comes from JB with an immediate back up from Anastasia.
Aloha,
WS
for those that care...I have submitted two resumes to Cali. I have gotten two call backs. Who wants to climb the Capt'n in decemeber with all my new gear?
Willi is coming to town!
Aloha,
will
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 21, 2006 - 03:42am PT
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so how an i just buy some shoes and john would just get the money?
size 10.5 or 11 or eb42
serious
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Oct 21, 2006 - 11:28am PT
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As I said, Internet Bitches™ are a dime a dozen...
So how did the Tim Green thread get deleted? And more importantly, why?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 21, 2006 - 02:39pm PT
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Hi Blinny,
I like Walier Mathau's version in JFK a bit more but, sincerest form of flattery and all...
I think we all need to be just a tad patient.
Tim now has the opportunity to deflate all the naysayers by shipping the SWAG and posting up his med bills.
Either way this goes I think that some apologies will be in order (but I'm not gonna hold my breath for THAT one either).
Damn it was a beautiful morning out on the basalt!
Why don't you all just go climbing for a few days until this shakes out.
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JMC
climber
Tucson
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Oct 21, 2006 - 03:09pm PT
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Ron, It WAS a beautiful morning out on the rocks! Gates Pass boulders in Tucson, while meager in their offerings, are a great place to huck your meat before/after work. Anyway, enough of that.
Quick comment on the Bachar Money Deal: I've never met JB, but chunked in some money because of his impact on climbing in general, and how I view climbing. What Bachar does with the money is out of my hands - I gave it to him. That being said, many people get in tough financial troubles upon occasion, and I don't help them out. I gave the money to Bachar because of who he is, not because he needs the cash. I'm not interested in someone else getting the cash I threw in ($35 to Mammoth Mountaineering, $25 to the tgreene deal.) I would hope that John Bachar takes the whole pile of loot, as it was intended exclusively for him.
-John Canby
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Oct 21, 2006 - 03:24pm PT
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Blinny,
I agree that there does need to be some accountability here. This is not an unreasonable request. Is the amount on the Benifit website the final amount? If and how much of that amount went to Tim?
I also agree that there may be some who are not comfortable with a portion of this going to Tim even though several have said it is Ok. I too have never heard of Tim Greene before this all occured and when I saw the website and the effort that was being put into this I thought that this was a very professional operation. I am not making any accusation towards Tim what so ever but this does need to be above board and people have a right to know exactly where their money has gone.
There is no reason for JB to respond to any of this as he is dealing with a far greater challange just getting his health and life back in order.
I do agree with Ron as well that maybe a little time is needed for Tim to get his ducks in a row but, a formal satement in the very near future is in order.
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Raoul
climber
that nagging feeling in the back of your head
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Oct 21, 2006 - 03:40pm PT
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stich - it just irritates the phuck out of you that you don't know me. Your attempt to discredit who I am is over-shadowed by the fact that you can't refute anything I've said. Get over it and go back to spankin' your monkey to internet porn.
tgreene needs to come clean with why he hasn't paid back the funds to the generous folks on RC who came to his phoney distress call some months ago when he claimed to need to move and didn't have the money. No payback, no word, not even a GD thank you. I smell con artist.
With that in mind, why would anyone in their right mind want to believe this guy isn't dipping into the Bachar funds? Who's been keeping an accounting? Guy makes up one story, he'll make up another. Guy steals from one source, he'll steal from another.
This is about doing the right thing and so far all I see is a lot of quibbling. There needs to be a full disclosure and soon.
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Oct 21, 2006 - 04:06pm PT
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all donations need to go to John.
Mr. Greene needs to post his picture, bio and informataion.
I sure hope this doesn't turn out as it's starting to smell.
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dt
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes
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Oct 21, 2006 - 05:59pm PT
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Last week we wrapped up the fundraising effort in the Eastern Sierra, Mammoth Lakes. On our end we raised $12,770.13 for the Bachar-Karafa Fund. All of that money is going to John. He has about half of it already. Last week Bank of America had problems with their cashier check making machine and asked me to come back next week. These funds were raised from donation jars at local stores, admission to Peter Crofts slide show, a raffle, a silent auction, a Pay-Pal link, and a large amount was raised from local businesses simply writing large checks. Part of this amount was $1121.60 raised from the sale of Acopa shoes at my store. I have made 4 folders with copies of all checks, the Pay-Pal history, Acopa shoe sales history, and the bank statement from the account I made at BofA. Malcom Daly has said he will accept a folder, I plan to give one to Lisa Karafa, John already has one. I can send a copy to anyone who wants one.
Phil Bard sent his fund raising efforts dollars through the American Alpine Club and John has received those funds and others collected by the AAC.
I have spoken with John about his MEDICAL bills. The total of the bills are huge. John is expecting to owe a large chunk. I am not going to quote anything yet about what he thinks he will owe. Hopefully, there will be some real money for a fund in the name of Steve Karafa. I believe we have collectively raised over $30,000. John wants to donate all of it to the fund. I think we all want to help John get back on his feet first. That was the point. John has a new business, and is unable to work right now. Winters in Mammoth are very tough, especially when you have a broken neck. He has a kid and some very large medical bills. A local company really stepped up and donated John 4 cords of stacked wood, and snow plowing for the winter. Add it up, and you can see why this community wanted to help John. I really thought of this as a sort of barn raiser. The community getting together to help one of its own. The accountability of the money is very, very, very important, but there really is something bigger happening here.
6 events happened around the country to help in regards to this tragedy. Its fantastic and beautiful what happened. I did not have anything to do with the other 5 events. With all the emotion and sadness following the accident I posted a letter saying John did not have insurance. Within hours of finding out he did have insurance I posted again with an apology and the truth. I sent out close to 200 emails with the apology and truth. I read posts on the site talking about John having insurance. On our end we discussed if we still wanted to do a fundraiser. It was an easy decision. John still needed our help. I am very very sorry if anyone was misled. John has agreed anyone who wants his or her donation back can have it. Get in touch with me and I will see to it you get your generous donation back. The thought was there, and it will still be appreciated. If I ever decide to help do a fundraiser again, I will bring a lot more experience with me.
I don’t read forums much anymore. I learned of this episode by randomly calling Tim to see how he was doing. I don’t know Tim Greene, but I have talked to him a few times since this started. I am sure his heart was and is in the right place. He talked many times about why he was putting out so much effort. He talked about all the support he received from this community after Katrina. He talked about how much John meant to him and how he felt affiliated and a part of Acopa. New Orleans to Jonesboro Arkansas doesn’t sound like riches to me. I think life really doles out some bad luck and people go through incredibly difficult times. When John talked to Tim while Tim was in the hospital Tim was going through something awful. John has seen the affects of strokes in his close family. His brother works at Cedars Sinai Hospital and told John, Tim needs to be in a good hospital getting the right tests. And that Tim could be a candidate for a sooner than later stroke. They would not help Tim in Jonesboro. John felt the money in the account, with no immediate, right this day needs, could save Tim’s life. Spur of the moment decisions were made and Tim is very sorry for that. Actions have already been made to repay Tim’s “borrowed” money. How and when this happens I will post again, but I am confident everyone’s generosity will go to the right place. Again, if you want a refund, get in touch with me.
Lastly, something very tragic happened. So many people stepped up to help. It wasn’t all about money. It was about people caring about helping and so many people did. All the mistakes were made out of trying to do good. Right now I am sad about the turn of events, but I think in the long run we all have something to be proud of. When someone gets hurt at the crag everyone wants to help them. The climbing community is just like that. (and the Mammoth Lakes community) I only worked on the Mammoth Lakes effort, but the bigger picture got very large and overwhelming. But I think that is a good problem.
Dave Talsky
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 21, 2006 - 06:32pm PT
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Dave thank you very much for shedding some light on the issue, although I had to hold back a laugh when I read of BAC having trouble with a check making machine.
The intrigue just keeps on coming in Rafflegate.
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goatboy smellz
climber
boulder county
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Oct 21, 2006 - 06:49pm PT
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Not being a member of RC.com, but knowing full well how to use a search engine I've done some research on RC.com to see if Tim Greene ever posted a thread that Raoul mentions.
Search based on tgreene - Forum Threads
20 Pages - 4260 Posts
No comment on needing money.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/newsearch.php?mode=1&q=tgreene&fulltext=on&start=0
Search based on tgreene - Submitted Articles
Zero Results
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/?action=search
Edit: this link seems not to be working. Go to the upper right of your screen and enter Submitted Articles - tgreene manually.
Search based on Raoul – Forum Threads
1 Page – 4 Results
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/newsearch.php
Search based on Raoul – Submitted Articles
Zero Results
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/?action=search
Raoul if you go by other names that's not a problem,
link your accusation from RC.com here on supertaco, in case my search was inconclusive.
Or Jello & Hardman Knott have a valid point against your testimony.
Disclosure:
I know none of the folks involved with this melee.
Big Time Edit: If any of these links bring you to the standard search page just provide the engine with the information I've included and you will see the results.
Have fun kidz it’s just another Saturday night.
Goes by,
Eric Patterson ala family
goatboy smellz ala supertaco.com
runpikarun ala 14ers.com
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 21, 2006 - 07:29pm PT
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wow, easy there Dave. Let's just see how this shakes out. I DID say I held it back.
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dt
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes
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Oct 21, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
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Ron, last week was the appropriate time to close the account. Its been two months since the accident and one month since our slide show. I was still collecting funds from the silent auction and the last paypal donation was Oct 8. I am sure BofA Mammoth Lakes remembers the broken machine if you want to call them. John has know within a couple hundred dollars how much was in the Bachar-Karafa Fund account at BofA for a few weeks, so he could plan accordingly. I guess I should have left the line out about the broken machine.
dt
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Oct 21, 2006 - 10:24pm PT
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Tim didn't pull the post. Neither did I...
Yes, someone could easily figure out my password. I just never thought anyone would bother.
Now the question of Tim doing shady business... He was in the hospital, unless he faked his seizures, convinced the doctors and then pulled a fast one on John... Well I will have to shake his hand for fooling so many of us.
Now only two people have bothered to accuse him of this. I don't understand the motives, it just makes me sad.
I only wonder why doing a nice thing can be offensive.
AF
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Raoul
climber
that nagging feeling in the back of your head
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Oct 22, 2006 - 11:35am PT
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stich - you'd really appear to be intelligent if you just kept your mouth shut. Instead of deflecting attention away from the REAL issues here with your false accusations (actually, I seem to be the ONLY one with balls in this duo) why don't you do the right thing by getting off your duff, do your own research, and develop your own conclusions based on fact. There is no conjecture herein. You yourself have stated you sent TG money to help him move however long ago after he went online. Did he promise to pay you back? Did he ever? What about all the other people who are still waiting to be paid back and who have come forth saying so? And why wouldn't that color opinion regarding his recent involvement with this venture?
goatboy - contact the moderators at RC about the tgreene thread in question - I believe, according to my sources, that it was yanked because it was inappropriately soliciting funds from other members. In the meantime, contact newbierockstar at RC.stupid for her apparent involvement in the plight.
FWIW, I have apologized to John Bachar for any additional issues this may have created for him. He's a good man and got caught in a very unfortunate situation by a con artist.
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goatboy smellz
climber
boulder county
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Oct 22, 2006 - 12:20pm PT
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Raoul, YOU need to provide evidence of your allegations.
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Raoul
climber
that nagging feeling in the back of your head
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Oct 22, 2006 - 12:49pm PT
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From user newbierockstar at RC.com
" 'mal daly was quoted - Tim is considering this a loan and has plans to reimburse the Fund.'
Assuming we'll ever hear from him again on this forum, I would be curious if Tim plans on first repaying the RC.com members (and others) who contributed nearly $1000 to his wallet when he "desperately" needed funds for his move cross-country following his job loss and pending homelessness over a year ago.
I never thought I'd regret giving aid to a person in need, but to be honest, I never received so much as a thank you from Tim, either in person or in writing...not even a measly PM...."
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Oct 22, 2006 - 11:58pm PT
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holy crap. is that skibabeage? And here I thought it was kodos. hahahahaha
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 23, 2006 - 12:55am PT
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Having had it aimed at me I have to say anonymous attacks on the internet is about as low as a human being can stoop. If you aren't prepared to standup in the light of your real identity then simply crawl back under whatever rock you've come from (and pity the rock). What a completely unnecessary and embarassing "General Hospital" you've generated. That someone wouldn't take John, Malcolm, and Anastasia at their word is almost beyond belief; this is drama for drama's sake.
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