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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 11, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
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Two cents, gladly shared among my peers. The rest can try to catch up.
This writer, Bishrat, he's clueless.
It took guys their whole extended youths to put this dirtbag, noble hipster vision out there, unknowingly. With no agenda. It's who they were after they went thru the wringer of the crucible, which is a neat invention, the mangler, as it's properly known. Yeah, we line-dried our dirty laundry, too, letting Largo and a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals speak for the SM gen.
They were stonemasterbating based on the porn written by Roper and that buncha rowdies, not just Royal; and his high-flown attempts at rationalization and apology, as appreciated as they were by we younkers, never entered into that, nor did nostalgia, the reason being, there was little to miss. "Climbing" and an associated lifestyle did not exist before that pioneer Camp 4 gang of the Golden Age. But by the time I'd stopped living the vida, we had a back-stock of Ascents and piles of new shiny Mountains and old moldy Summits, and Ament, and Tobin, etc. Even Pratt's visions share some of this centering on one group, only because it's what he knew. I wish he'd written twice as much, but he was, apparently, out getting climbs in and educating new climbers for very little "prohet."
Do yourself a favor, reader, and don't honestly believe, EVER, that any one source/writer/hit can achieve what is achievable only in an extended series a la Ken Burns. It's not possible to put together a single, cohesive bit of history without leaving out a group whose legitimacy is every bit as valid as the Stonemasters' group history. This skews the whole vision when it happens.
I've seen the trailer twice. It certainly will happen in this filmic endeavor, that someone's gonna be slighted or not mentioned, intentionally or not, no matter how well-edited. I believe the filmmakers decided this before they even sat down to write a draft. Besides, there was porbably NO FILM of these others.
The Stonemasters, not as a group, but individually, interacted with other members of other coteries, who did in fact exist alongside them, so it's not all cut-and-dried and wrapped up in a nice commericaly-potent package, but one which still creates nostalgic feelings and informs the young as well.
But it is more pleasing to me to read and chuckle or shake my head over what is written in our Forum than what some wanker for R & I thinks. No disrespect to the author, Birthofrat.
Did I mention that I hate Rock & Ice because it seems to be what the bulk of you here have written at one time or another, and I wouldn't want to go against the grain of sentiment. God forbid I should risk anything...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 11, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
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Do yourself a favor, reader, and don't honestly believe, EVER, that any one source/writer/hit can achieve what is achievable only in an extended series a la Ken Burns. It's not possible to put together a single, cohesive bit of history without leaving out a group whose legitimacy is every bit as valid as the Stonemasters' group history. This skews the whole vision when it happens.
well said!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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Thank you.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:14pm PT
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I thought it was an interesting article, although I also like the stonemaster mythology and like to see it promoted. The author is pointing out what exists everywhere, that ambitious people do amazing things, but tend to be as#@&%es too. I think Splater hit the nail on the head. These achievements are not all that important, except to a few people. What is important is how the experience changes you and gives you the confidence to do truly great things.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:23pm PT
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I thought the article was pretty schizophrenic. He kept throwing out critiques and then caveating them.
Reducing many of the earlier climbers primary motivation to image and ego is ludicrous. Seemed like he has some sort of chip on his shoulder.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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Lists possess a beginning.
No end has as yet been found.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
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Bisharat is a sport climber, a Rifle local, WTF did you expect?
As for the people mentioned above as missing from the movie - they either weren't locals, or they are boring. Todd Skinner was an outsider in every sense. Some of the others mentioned have accomplishments and a reputation so obscure you wouldn't know if it weren't for they themselves telling us all about it - basically here on the Taco - like 30 years later.
In any case - mission accomplished - both Boulder shows are sold out.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
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Why are we watching this film in 2014? Because there hasn't been an era anything as groundbreaking, compact and awesome as that one.
Wanna spend years making a movie about Watts developing top down bolting at Smith?
Important, yes. As important as the age in question in Yosemite? Not even close.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Sep 11, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
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Its all pretty funny looking back on it all.... from 40 years later...
The stonemaster thing was just something to call each other, had no idea at the time that some of the crazy antics would become stuff of historical note.
Almost all the climbers I meet today, do not know who John Bachar was!!!!!!
Not to mention Tobin.
I hope this movie will show some of them just what was going on at the time.
I am stoked to see and buy the movie.
Thank you Sender Films..
Dean, John and all of you who put in the time and effort to get this done.
Lets make some popcorn
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Barbarian
climber
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Sep 11, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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Why skip 1980 to 1998 ???
One word: Spandex
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 11, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
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"largely motivated by image and ego"
He uses the word "ego" a bunch of times. Seems like he should look in a mirror. Nothing would really get done in the world if people didn't have a bit of ego to go with the things they find to get stoked about, including somewhat schizophrenic articles like his.
I would also add if someone doesn't capture some of the history of that period now, then when? Wait until more of the players have gone and can't tell the cool stories of their time in the sun?
You gotta make hay while the sun shines. Can't wait to see it. There's time to do the same for the later generations and Bisharat can whine about that when the time comes.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 11, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
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That thing this guy wrote was just so woefully off-base on so many levels it was breathtaking. The writer -- man, I wouldn't even know where to start in rebutting or calling just straight-up outright bullshit on many of his observations and conclusions. This threadbare scrap of tat reminds me an lot of Jeff Smoot's more ignoble efforts, such as "The Valley Syndrome." Mouse From Merced gets at it, but the article is just total...whatever, but by the second paragraph all I could think was wtf.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Sep 11, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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"It took guys their whole extended youths to put this dirtbag, noble hipster vision out there, unknowingly. With no agenda."
Gimme a fukkin break. No agenda? What is putting a vision out there, if not an agenda?
ex: “The Stonemasters were all about pushing the limit and pissing off the status quo,” said Steve Roper in the film."- AB
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2 l l
Sport climber
Rancho Verga, CA
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Sep 11, 2014 - 08:30pm PT
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essay Is there goin to be a test on this ?
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Sep 11, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
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Sure the verbiage around the Stonemasters has been a little much over the years, but what's wrong with being nostalgic. Those guys inspired many of us to pursue climbing as something more than simply sport. I remember buying Yosemite Climber and just knowing I had to aspire to those climbs and that lifestyle. Why would we not be nostalgic about that?
There was that period of time when the climbing rags seemed to be down on the Valley during the 90's (thank goodness I got over reading those a long time ago), and I remember taking trips there and thinking to myself the Valley was the sh#t, is the sh#t and will always be the sh#t. The locals always kept the climbing hard and not dumbed-down for the shameless numbers-chasers. The rock is the best and biggest around which is why such a diverse range of characters have managed to etch their place in climbing history there. Every serious climber that hasn't been to the Valley knows that they're missing an important part of the experience.
Bisharat is clearly a smart guy, but he's all over the map in his review. Just because the Valley might not be relevant to all modern variations of climbing certainly doesn't make it irrelevant.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 11, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
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I took up climbing because I wanted to learn how to get around.
An incident unrelated to climbing persuaded me to stay in the Gunks. We noobs were acting up. Hal Murray, our leader, advised us, "Careful now. You too can be replaced by a nonlinear servomechanism."
The place was full of people I wanted to be around.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 11, 2014 - 10:39pm PT
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I don’t know why Sender films embarked on this project… but they have a relatively good business sense and probably thought it would be commercially successful. And it is certainly true that looking at the “naughty bits” of those times with modern sensibilities would not be controversial. People back then got busted for marijuana possession and did time at federal penitentiaries, for what’s now legal in Colorado.
There is no question why Bisharat wrote the piece, he was asked to by Sender, probably because he can be counted on to create controversy… even a jaded limey like Mick wants to go see what it’s all about. And maybe Bisharat got some renumeration, he is a professional, after all.
And STForum… oy vey! How many threads on this now, 3, 4?
As for the Valley, climbers visit it for obvious reasons… as Largo observed in some past trailer for the movie, that climbers go to the Valley and actually “use” that famous, defining landscape… no one else who visits does. (I asked Largo about the quote and he thought it was a great observation, but didn’t recall making it himself, so either I’m fabricating a memory, or he is losing a memory, or both… we’re old and it’s what we do).
Robbins’ opinion that the Salathe Wall is the greatest rock climb in the world doesn’t have to be taken at face value. You can go and climb it yourself and see if you agree.
Or if you want to you could go climb Separate Reality and see why Dingleman is looking so intense in that classic picture. Wander off on some long lost Sierra Club Rock Climbing Section classic like the Direct Route on the Column, try your hand at Meltdown, confront Crimson Cringe or cruise a golden era classic like Steck-Salathe.
You do any of this and you are drawn into the circle of people who have done the same.
Is it nostalgia or is it just wanting to hear a good story told by good story tellers about a shared experience?
As for the 1970s, in some ways it’s sad that we cut loose in a way unimaginable to those raised today. I grew up on a steady diet of self-sufficiency stories, of leaving home and traveling around the world to a new country. All very powerful stuff. As soon as I could, I left home. Before that, I was out and about on my own. I got myself to where I needed/wanted to be, quite independently of the family. I thought I was expected to be independent, so I was, not only that, I felt, mistakenly or not, a tremendous pressure pushing me away.
I lived in California at the time, got into rock climbing, and on a spring break I got my first ride to the Valley with DonC. We drove in from LA late, pulled over on the Valley loop someplace and put our sleeping bags on the ground and crashed. We didn’t get hassled by the NPS.
Two images impressed me on waking up that crisp spring morning of my first day: the place in reality was beyond anything I had imagined, and a bear was sniffing at an occupied sleeping bag, a part of what I took to be another party of climbers who had done the same thing we had upon their arrival.
Not only were we “free” of our parents to embark on our life’s adventures, but there wasn’t a harsh authority governing the Valley, we seemed free to do what we had come to do, climb.
That I did what any other 16 year old guy would do at that time doesn’t seem heroic or legendary or at all strange. Like any other old guy, I am nostalgic for my youth, but that is a place far away long ago that can never again be attained. It was what it was.
I’m not even sure I was aware of “The Stonemasters” then, though I grew up less than five miles down Baseline Ave. from a lot of them (you can't go to a lot of those places anymore, the Foothill Freeway is dug down that strip of land), and climbed at Rubidoux, and out at J Tree and at Tahquitz Rock and bouldered Mt. Baldy Rd. and they were all there… I didn’t know about a lot of the antics until reading Largo’s pieces in the various magazines years later… but I did know about their accomplishments, they were awesome, inspirational and overwhelming.
I’m not nostalgic about that crew, I didn’t meet most of them till we were all way past those times. I moved off to the east coast and did a graduate student equivalent as a dirtbag in New York City… climbing when I could in the ‘Gunks and New Hampshire… where I continued to miss the leading lights of climbing of those days.
Every year I’m resigned to viewing the Sender Film Tour at the Facelift… I haven’t looked but I’d guess they are on the schedule this year too. I like some of it, it’s all entertaining, Sender is good at that, they have access to the people and the means to produce a professional video which informs, outrages and ultimately entertains.
But sometimes I grow bored with the one way nature of viewing. It’s really passive, we are all stuffed into an overheated room gazing up in the dark, our faces illuminated by the video projection screen (or our cell phones), alone, we respond to the cues provided by the video, not to each other. But we are a viewing society now so it seems normal.
When the isolation of viewing overwhelms the bounds of entertainment I will wander through the Valley navigating back to camp by memory in the pitch dark and find a spot around the fire and listen to the music and share with the others the day’s activities, answering the question “how was the movie?”
And that seems timeless, from the first night ever to today, as if only a day had elapsed and not 45 years. Back home.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 11, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
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That was a really nice piece you wrote, Ed.
Really nice ....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 11, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
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Thanks for that Ed.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 11, 2014 - 11:15pm PT
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Great perspective Ed. Thanks for sharing.
Andrews a good dude and I think a lot of the hate directed at him isn't warranted. I think it's fairly surprising how easily feathers can be ruffled : /
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