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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
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Chef,seriously,WTF is wrong with you.
You are against people that have solutions to our problem.
Climate Change.
You beret everyone with a wink of a solution,or even help towards it.
As if that were wrong.
Do you get a check from Exxon?
Are you a FF stockholder?
I mean really ,Is it bad to look for solutions to any of this?
Is that not natural?
There is little right nor wrong to this problem,yet you and yours deny it's existence.
Are you really that regressive?
WTF?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:10pm PT
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The amounts we have spent recently on clean energy are small. Whether or not some companies went bankrupt, the advancement of technology in batteries, solar power, wind, etc, is greatly worthwhile.
The costs are small compared to other money pits such as
Subsidies to federal cleanup of nuclear waste and leaking tanks
Yucca Mtn, Hanford, Tailings, etc
$30 BILLION ?? just a guess
Value of Federal Indemnity for nuclear power
$40 BILLION ?? just a guess
Cost of Ecological damage of Coal
Mercury, Acid Rain, smog, Fish poison, ruined water, streams, forests
all externalized (not paid by Coal industry), not including CO2
$100 BILLION ?? just a guess
War machine costs of pursuing foreign oil
$approx 5 TRILLION ?? just a guess
Dubious Pilot Plants to demonstrate "Clean Coal"
$1 billion ?? just a guess
Subsidies and requirements to Corn alcohol industry midwest ADM
$10 billion ?? just a guess
Cost of delaying advancements in EPA CAFE fuel mileage requirements -
Requirements did not increase from about 1984 to about 2008.
$$ A Giant Subsidy to Car and Oil industry
Cost of Failing to increase federal gas tax. Has been 18.4 cents/gal since 1993.
$$ Effectively a Trillion ?? subsidizing driving and sprawl
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
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I do not care who you vote for.
This SHOULD not be about politics.
You are correct Splater.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
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I was talking about Crescent Dunes near Tonopah NV wilbeer. They are over a year behind their original schedule. Ivanpah looks like a better managed project. Can you imagine where we could be in new energy technology if most of those hundreds of billions spent studying overhyped climate doom went instead into research, development and deployment of projects like these. I imagine we would be several generations of improvement closer to your imagined promised land of FF free energy.
http://truthatlas.com/harnessing-the-suns-heat/#sthash.NcJmvjxp.dpbs
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
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Rick,I wish I could live in 1965 like you.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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Tell me ,do I have a choice?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 31, 2014 - 04:13am PT
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What a fking loser. How the fk can I be a hypocrite if I am not with nor do I agree with the any of you freaks on this thread screaming about FF C02 human emissions gonna kill us??
PEEKABOOO... YABADABADOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Whhooooooooooooooa!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It is COOLING..
OK... so it's warming.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jan 31, 2014 - 08:27am PT
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www.powdermag.com/stories/enough-brown-smog/#a209245864
Where is the "Yer all hypocrite's rally?"
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 31, 2014 - 09:01am PT
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Rick S. posted a link to a supposedly "censored" publication was shut down. I strongly urge you guys to read this and then tell me if it sounds even remotely like science.
Ed, since you are also comfortable in reading peer reviewed articles, go ahead and read some of this stuff:
http://people.duke.edu/~ns2002/pdf/PRP_special_issue.pdf
Basically what that pub is, is a group of people who got together and took advantage of "open source" publication. Since they all peer reviewed each other's articles, it doesn't come close to passing the smell test of peer reviewed science. It was shut down after one issue, I believe.
Rick. Have you actually READ that pub? It is freaking awful.
While googling what happened to this issue, I found myself on a lot of climate denier-type websites. There is all kinds of nutty stuff out there, and if you want graphs to suit your fancy, they are readily available all over the web. We see these graphs posted here almost daily.
Again. I strongly urge everyone to read Sagan's Demon Haunted World, which explains how to recognize good science and bad science. It applies richly to that PRP issue, which greatly confuses correlation and causation.
Just like that Napoleon dude who posts on this thread.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2014 - 10:51am PT
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Speaking of Gov't waste, has The Chief begun his daily belching yet?
Your taxpayer money at work.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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Maybe The Chief should post the whole thing instead of cherry picking:
Funding: The Penguin Project has been funded by: WCS, Exxonmobil Foundation, The Pew Fellows Program in Marine Conservation, The Disney Worldwide Conservation Fund, The National Geographic Society, The Chase Foundation, The Cunningham Foundation, The MKCG Foundation, The Offield Foundation, The Peach Foundation, The Thorne Foundation, The Tortuga Foundation, The Kellogg Foundation, The Wadsworth Endowed Chair in Conservation Science, and Friends of the Penguins. Trimble provided six rugged tablets. Canon provided two pairs of binoculars. The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.
Competing interests: The authors received donations of field equipment from two commercial sources (Trimble and Canon), but neither company (nor any of our funders) has any claims or restrictions on the data or results. Therefore, this does not alter the authors′ adherence to all the PLOS ONE policies on sharing data and materials.
BTW, The Chief, did you have a point or are you just set on stinking up the place with more of your belching?
Climate Change Means Death for Penguins and Their Babies
Two separate studies show penguins' plight a direct cause of climate change
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:02am PT
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He is the Chief cherry picker, after all, willing to take any dishonest, misleading or unethical measure to "prove" his absurd and untenable point.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:03am PT
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Randisi, you're an as#@&%e.
;-)
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jan 31, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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Funding: The Penguin Project has been funded by: WCS, Exxonmobil Foundation, The Pew Fellows Program in Marine Conservation, The Disney Worldwide Conservation Fund, The National Geographic Society, The Chase Foundation, The Cunningham Foundation, The MKCG Foundation, The Offield Foundation, The Peach Foundation, The Thorne Foundation, The Tortuga Foundation, The Kellogg Foundation, The Wadsworth Endowed Chair in Conservation Science, and Friends of the Penguins. Trimble provided six rugged tablets. Canon provided two pairs of binoculars. The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.
Competing interests: The authors received donations of field equipment from two commercial sources (Trimble and Canon), but neither company (nor any of our funders) has any claims or restrictions on the data or results. Therefore, this does not alter the authors′ adherence to all the PLOS ONE policies on sharing data and materials.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jan 31, 2014 - 01:41pm PT
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I wonder why Exxon would be interested in AGU?
Could it be that geologist find oil and gas?
Nah, that can't be it. Gotta be some kind of conspiracy thing.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 31, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
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Base do you actually read half the crap from either side? Did you read Ed's penguin find about a bunch of dudes who wanted s paid vacation to paddle the fjords of Patagonia and when they wereupset the rain proceeded to kill off penguin chicks on paper of course. Have you read any of the papers blaming violence and war on AGW. Have you read any of the reams of sociologist papers studying what the deficiencies are that don't allow a majority of reasonable people to care a wit of this CAGW crock of shet. Well Base, if you could look at the matter impartially you would see a tremendous amount of pal review of total baloney papers, especially on the AGW side. NO I didn't do much more than glance at the issue I posted. I've read most of the gist of it before.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jan 31, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
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Are you now stating that LARRY HAMILTON and ED HARTOUNI were attending a one week conference in San Fransisco (where 20K other CC Scientists gathered as well) on where and how to drill for oil and gas??
Dang, you are stupid. Ed didn't attend, and is not a CC scientist.
Really, there were 20K CC scientists at AGU?
Please tell us more fantastic stories.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jan 31, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
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Tamino over at Open Mind has an intriguing new post centered around the 1998 data point that denialists like to choose as the start of the "pause" in air temperature rise. 1998 witnessed a "super El Nino" event making global temperatures high, and particularly so in the lower-troposphere satellite temperature indexes which are most sensitive to El Nino.
Being skeptical, I thought I'd try to reproduce Tamino's results for myself. But not exactly copy them, there's little point in that.
To start with: we now have 6 up-to-date global temperature anomaly indexes, all of which I've graphed below. Tamino used yearly data which are much smoother, but I'll stick with monthly.
This spaghetti graph is hard to read. The different indexes are well correlated but (1) they have different means, because they use different sets of years to define their "0" baselines; and (2) more subtly, they have different variances -- the satellite indexes (RSS and UAH) seem to be noisier, with more random-looking month-to-month variation.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jan 31, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
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So as a first step I combined all 6 temperature indexes into one, defined as their first principal component. The first principal component (or "empirical orthogonal function") explains 91% of the combined variance, with an eigenvalue of 5.5. The 2nd principal component has an eigenvalue of just 0.4, and others much less, so those aren't worth retaining. Here is the result:
My composite index is calculated after standardizing the variables,
z = (x - xmean)/sd
so they each have a mean of 0 and standard deviation of 1. Hence it does not matter that the original series used different baselines, or that the satellite series have more variance. I'm setting aside, for the moment, my suspicion that Cowtan & Way have the best index; instead of playing favorites we'll democratically let them all vote.
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