Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
|
Bottom line: No one knows to a reasonable certainty how the final "confrontation" went down - by "final" I mean the last crucial moments. The prosecution had the burden to show intent to kill beyond self defense and beyond reasonable doubt. I'd bet I followed this case as closely as you guys did and it simply did not.
Sure, did Zimmerman set in motion a series of events that led to this tragedy? For sure. But did this rise to the level of manslaughter taking into account the uncertainty in the final moments of confrontation, no way. Not in my analysis.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
|
With all of the guns in our possession a little vigilante action here and there can only help bring human population down.....a damn good thing for biodiversity and a healthy planet.
|
|
monolith
climber
SF bay area
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
|
Let the civil suit begin. No book deal or movie profits for Z.
The homeowner association already settled a suit.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
|
Sure, did Zimmerman set in motion a series of events that led to this tragedy? For sure. But did this rise to the level of manslaughter taking into account the uncertainty in the final moments of confrontation, no way. Not in my analysis.
He set it in motion. If he would have stayed in the truck and let the cops deal with his suspicions this would never have happened.
I hope karma comes around.
|
|
TREED
Trad climber
Gunks
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
|
OJ was not guilty too.
Zimms life is over.
|
|
Tready
Trad climber
Quito
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
|
Well, I guess if you needed ANOTHER reason to stay the hell away from Florida...
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 12:04am PT
|
It's amazing how people refuse to adhere to the facts of the case. Trayvon didn't have to beat the crap out of GZ for 45 seconds. All he had to do was say, "WTF honky! I'm heading to my crib." And GZ would've let him cut through.
|
|
monolith
climber
SF bay area
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 12:14am PT
|
A 17 year old kid forced to make the right decision in a stressful situation. Thanks, GZ.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 12:27am PT
|
So I've been listening to MSNBC, the news and views cable outlet with which I mostly strongly identify. Tonight, though, I am disappointed by its biases on this one. Tonight it stands in stark contrast to CNN.
.....
It seems to me the take home (which parents should be passing on to their children tonight in the wake of this tragedy) is that... you just cannot "confront" others anymore like you could bitd even one or two generations ago (indeed, just as young adult males are inclined to do) because there's just no telling if the "confrontation" will escalate and insofar as it does, there's just no telling if one's packing a firearm and inclined to use it.
Obviously the world was different 50 years ago, in many respects communities were tighter in customs and traditions and folkways, more homogenous, more predictable. Today we are challenged to adapt, today as much as ever if not more. Insofar as we forget this, we invite disaster into our lives.
I know you guys know this, I suppose I'm just repeating it for my own self for reinforcement sake, I guess.
|
|
abrams
Sport climber
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 01:09am PT
|
In Chicago there is no way to pin down the reason for shootings.
People would be surprised if there were not daily shootings there.
Most always 100% black on black. If they are doing the racist revenge bit
for Trayvon on whites the CPD will go medieval on their ass's.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:03am PT
|
Appalling affront to justice... The perpetrator of a deadly encounter, without authority to stalk, persue or provoke, endorsed and upheld in his villainy because the youth fought back...
MLK said,"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."
...with uncomprehending, provincial verdicts favoring the ruthless, that "moral arc" won't be bending any the sooner.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2013 - 07:13am PT
|
***
A mockery of reasonable fear for life: As a woman, I'd have been terrified if a strange man got out of a car and followed me. If that man had a gun, I would have no doubt my life was potentially in jeopardy. Does it matter that I'm a white woman and Martin a black man? Does it matter that Martin was wearing a hoodie instead of a dress, or perhaps, business attire? It shouldn't.
The verdict in this case elevates the rights of cowboys and wanna-be cops over those of law-abiding citizens. With no evidence Martin was committing any crime, Zimmerman had no justification for sticking his nose — and his gun — into Martin's business. Martin didn't owe Zimmerman any explanation for his presence in the neighborhood. Zimmerman's carrying a deadly weapon — one which did not contain Martin's DNA, suggesting he never touched it — most likely put Martin in fear for his life. Letting Zimmerman off the hook over uncertainty as to who struck first whitewashes Zimmerman's provocation and the power imbalance between the provocateur with the gun and the unarmed citizen.
— Carol Bengle Gilbert
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 07:23am PT
|
If some vigilante punk ass confronted me with a gun I would, given an opening, beat them to within a bloody inch of their life. Would I be in the wrong? Or should I just let them terrorize me like a good Toby?
God I am grateful I don't live in the South. It's like some despicable third world banana republic.
Half this Country disgusts me.
|
|
Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 07:42am PT
|
It is too bad how this whole case has been racialized and over-hyped. If there are riots it is the media's fault.
This was a difficult call for the jury. It is a good thing they were sequestered. 30 years ago we would never have seen such a circus made out of a trial like this.
Zimmerman's self-defense defense made a manslaughter conviction unlikely because he already admitted he shot intentionally.
Remember, it was the prosecution that had the burden of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) in this case.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 08:49am PT
|
Remember, it was the prosecution that had the burden of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) in this case
But proof of what, sir? Mr Zimmerman admitted to following, profiling and confronting the victim. He instigated a deadly encounter with a firearm... by his own admissions.
The premise of Trayvon fighting back doesn't put a gloss on Zimmerman's outrageous behavior, excuse it or wash away the blood. Mr. Zimmerman came out of the encounter with his life...Trayvon didn't. Zimmerman could have backed off at several juncture...he didn't, despite a lack of tangible evidence TM was engaged in criminal action.
Trayvon paid dearly for whatever sins he effected...Zimmerman, who initiated a clash with a gun...without authority...comes out of this with virtual endorsement of hideously belligerent behavior.
|
|
Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 08:50am PT
|
The verdict isn't surprising. The trial was just an exercise that had to be performed. The prosecution intentionally tripped up. It was in the State's interest to let Zim off the hook because now the law has precedent on a national scale and it puts people on notice that they'd better follow the laws and rules to the letter.
Remember, this is the Southern State that refused to retire "Ol' Sparky" (the misfunctioning electric chair) until they couldn't justify it anymore.
|
|
Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 09:15am PT
|
No surprise on the verdict..
GZ the profiler, stalker, and murderer WILL indeed make a fortune.
NOW he gets to testify on TV (glad I don't have one), free from prosecution.
Sad day to be an American.
Florida is a disgrace all around.
America's Australia.
Only criminals and the criminally insane in this shallow,murky backwater.
I hope that karmic justice will get GZ and
Florida.
GZ eats a bullet.
Florida secedes.
Murder. Straight up murder.
Wanna-be Dirty Harry rent a cop was gonna shoot his gun that night.
GZ's gun made his balls grow that night, typical Napoleanic complex.
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 09:24am PT
|
5/6 on jury were white. Is this 1932?
|
|
Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 09:29am PT
|
1932 Mississippi maybe.
Crackers-only jury..
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Jul 14, 2013 - 09:33am PT
|
But why is it that the majority of white conservative males think Zimmerman had every right to confront Tray for being "up to no good on drugs or something" despite ANY evidence of Tray doing ANYTHING wrong... other than being a black teenager with a hoodie? Why do they seem to think it is okay for an armed man to get out of his car, follow a teenager, and initiate a confrontation for NO legitimate reason?
OK. Wes...that's fair...
We could hope that folk's humanity might rise above politics in this. The country is so polarized, now...people want to construe everything under the sun through their socio-political polarity...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!