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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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This thread is far too entertaining to let it go to the dogs! (Har, har)
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yo
climber
Mudcat Spire
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It's obvious what happened here. The silence speaks volumes.
Ammon, up on the endless expanse of the great slab, eye to eye with his own mortality, has seen the light. He went for a forty-footer and an angelic sunbeam fell over him. A little voice in his ear said, Repent, my son. No more shalt thou wallow in strong drink and squirrel suits.
"Can I get an amen!" cried Brother Ammon.
And it came to pass that the WOS TR is on hold, as Ammon is in Brazil in a white shirt and tie, pedaling alongside his companion Elder Klaus.
As for Sister Kait, she has sequestered herself in a nunnery (sorry boys.)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Whos going to do the 3rd ascent? Mark Hugeone perhaps? :)
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More Air
Trad climber
S.L.C.
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Twas brilliant, brother yo!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Like I always say, "To a nunnery go, and quickly!"
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Rudder
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
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Just read the book... first half was hard to wade though... second half got better. Superstitions from a Catholic Church canonized bunch of anonymous writings from antiquities that you decide to follow by not climbing but only working on the sabbath. lol Whatever. lol In the bible they'll kill you for everything, the gods in there remind me of Francis from "Stripes." lol Pick and choose what to follow out of there, follow it all, or whatever... one superstition is as good as another I guess... as long as it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else.
Going along with my armchair speculation... as per the flowchart... it was described as a serious amount of work... and an absolute hammerfest (I was a framing contractor then and could have used these guys). I did not read Richard describe anything as great classic climbing. I continue to think these guys did have amazing stamina (ah to be young), but not for a great climb... but rather a controversial and very unpleasant route. Seriously, page after page describes the misery. Misery, yes, that's the word. Misery of Steel. Or, better yet, Misery by Hook and Hammer. :)
I also did read into Richard being kinda proud of suing and winning a case over his being fired from a job as par for the course. But, that is neither here nor there. Also, I still say that it was the attacks on Mark and Richard that gave the route attention.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Greetings, Rudder!
I must admit to a certain amount of confusion... Regarding Mark and Richard, I know that neither are Catholic, and would describe their religion as very different from that of the Catholic Church. Perhaps I misread, though is this what you meant to say about their own religious beliefs? Additionally, I don't believe either have harbored thoughts of murder, nor believe such to be biblically justified. Mark, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
I did get the same sense during the book that there was a predominant misery regarding their first ascent of the route, and likewise, I did see that as a central theme in the book. From what I took away from the reading, I believe that at the end of the day it was something that they both experienced great joy and spiritual satisfaction in accomplishing, as much as I think overcoming great adversity brings a person increased satisfaction in the accomplishment of their initial goal. Regarding the route itself I am unable to comment as I have never seen nor been on it, though I do see some validity in the statement that the controversy has brought a great deal of attention to it.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Poop, poop, poop. Is that all people think about?!
In all seriousness, my understanding is that the particular incident involving that bit of business was really kind of secondary by their way of thinking to the route being chopped and the actual process of harassment during and after the first ascent. I don't really think they care much about who did it, at this point in time.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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All this fuss about a variation, & a nonclassic one at that.
Meh.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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wrong, the poop is the whole deal!
seriously.
chopping and criticizing, that's vanilla sh#t (as it were).
but P O O P ?
that's an iconic image right there...
and one forever associated w/ the route!
(sorry, couldn't resist! =)
one does wonder tho', is there any connection between a guilt based religious tradition and a route of redundant suffering?
(how many new pages of posts will that query launch?)
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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one does wonder tho', is there any connection between a guilt based religious tradition and a route of redundant suffering?
(how many new pages of posts will that query launch?)
Matt, that's an interesting point of view to explore. But given the highly polarized nature of opinions on the matter, that seems like it's a subject better suited for another thread. I believe there is already one that fits the bill - the Politics, God and Religion vs. Science thread?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Guilt based? They're not Jewish!
Suffering is part of wall climbing. If you don't want to suffer, you have no business being on a big wall.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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What's all this poo about having to suffer because you are religious?
Some types of suffering is more enjoyable than others.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
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Hiya Da_Dweeb!
Regarding Mark and Richard, I know that neither are Catholic, and would describe their religion as very different from that of the Catholic Church.
My fault babbling on like that. I have just always found it so funny that the Catholics made a book (organized, picked and chose from anonymous writings from antiquity, cannonized, had votes with politcal leaders over meanings, translations and interpretations, etc., etc.) and so many other groups say they are the only ones with the correct interpretation of the Catholic's book. Then the Mormons going so far as to make an additional book out of the King James English version of the Catholic's book. I was just noting that whatever christian or offshoot of christian religion you are... you are using the Catholic's book. Relating to the book "Wings of Steel" the guys noted that they spent a week of their time on the FA observing the sabbath. They would not climb on the sabbath, but they worked on the sabbath. The Catholic's book called the Bible says you must not work on the sabbath (didn't say you couldn't climb, lol). It also says the penalty for working on the sabbath is death. lol So, as with all superstition to me... it's very silly stuff. I'm just saying. ;)
I did get the same sense during the book that there was a predominant misery regarding their first ascent of the route, and likewise, I did see that as a central theme in the book.
Agreed. And, to be silly here... maybe it was their god punishing them for working on the sabbath. ;) Now, you could criticize me for saying that, but when they enter their superstitions into the picture they set themselves against the forces of reality. lol If there is a god, or gods, he/they do not have anything to do with the outcome of boxing matches, sporting events, wars, or rock climbs. Although you see alot of praying at those events. lol
From what I took away from the reading, I believe that at the end of the day it was something that they both experienced great joy and spiritual satisfaction in accomplishing, as much as I think overcoming great adversity brings a person increased satisfaction in the accomplishment of their initial goal.
Agreed.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Mark and Richard are restricted from eating pork due to their religion... that is the biggest mistake one could ever make... who cares about WOS! Mark and Richard have deprived themselves of one of the best meats on the face of the planet!
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jstan
climber
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Aug 10, 2011 - 01:37am PT
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I'd like to know how a purely climbing thread made it up here with the political threads.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Aug 10, 2011 - 01:39am PT
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by getting all wrapped up in the politics of climbing
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jstan
climber
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Aug 10, 2011 - 01:49am PT
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Poo Boosters all? God what will me mum say?
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 12, 2011 - 01:12am PT
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Hmm. I wonder... While Ammon undoubtedly has familiarity and experience regarding pirate culture within Yosemite, the climbing community, and various other locations around the world, how well would this transfer to an understanding of Somalian piracy? I hate to think of the diplomatic nightmare that might ensue were we to assume a stance of ethnocentric monoculturalism towards piracy. I can see us causing some offense were we to expect that all those who identify themselves culturally as pirates also share the same norms, mores, and traditions. It would be arrogant - or at the very least certainly culturally insensitive of us - to expect a Melting Pot scenario to occur - that all pirates should conform to what we believe is the "right" way for pirates to think, feel, and interact with others.
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