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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Are fire trucks spraying salt water into broken reactors part of those back up plans???
DMT Actually, YES, although it would be the very last option. Sites have multiple means to get water from their source, most often fresh water in the US (via lakes and rivers), into the systems. If the source water is salt water, then they will use that if all other options have been exhausted.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Since Nuke plants stay really hot for a long time after shutting down, I don't see why their own heat couldn't boil water on a smaller scale as a third stage backup for emergency power purposes.
They do in a way... As I said earlier, the HPCI (High Pressure Coolant Injection) and RCIC (Reactor Core Isolation Coolant) systems are steam driven, meaning steam created by decay heat can be blead off the Rx and will drive these systems, even without electrical power... A unit can park itself in this mode for quite some time... Even longer if there are means to remove the heat from the water before putting it back into the reactor. These systems pump thousands of gallons of water per minute.
I said this earlier, as I am wondering what happened to their HPCI system, and if they even had a RCIC system.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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With Chernobyl's 25th anniversary reminding the world of the terrifying consequences of nuclear safety negligence, many eyes have turned to the continuing crisis in Japan. Dr. Robert Jacobs, an associate professor at the Hiroshima Peace Institute, says that the crisis at Fukushima-1 nuclear plant is far from being resolved.
Dr. Jacobs is critical of the Japanese government saying it withheld important information about the state of affairs at Fukushima.
“There was just recently an assessment of the situation at Fukushima by a group of international nuclear experts. The picture they painted was far grimmer than the picture that is painted by TEPCO or by the Japanese government. Both the Japanese government and TEPCO have strong interest in downplaying the problem, downplaying the threat and downplaying the impact. There is no doubt that we will need an independent inquiry,” says Dr. Jacobs.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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From
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/05_17.html
Workers enter reactor building
A team of workers has entered the Reactor Number One building at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant for the first time since the hydrogen explosion the day after the March 11th earthquake and tsunami.
On Thursday morning, two workers entered the building to install a purifier for the radiation-contaminated air.
Workers will be divided into groups of three, and each group will work for about 10 minutes to install eight air ducts. The workers wear 13-kilogram air tanks, as high levels of radioactive substances have been detected in the building.
Their work precedes the installation of a system to circulate cooling water within the reactor.
Tokyo Electric Power Company plans to begin operating the air purifier later in the day.
The operator says it will take about three days to vent the contaminated air, filter it, and return purified air to the building. It hopes to lower the radiation level so that workers can remain inside for longer periods.
According to the utility's plans, workers will enter the building as early as Sunday to check for damage to the pipes and valves to be used in a cooling system. The company hopes to launch work to circulate water and remove heat from the reactor by May 16th.
Thursday, May 05, 2011 12:56 +0900 (JST)
Wonder what those workers get paid for their 10 minute shift?
Peace
karl
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, jan.... thanks for sharing this, as to this quote:
i too, was wondering about this...
Mighty-
I just now saw this. Our cherry blossoms bloom at the beginning of February and were done by March. I read on the mainland though that the usual parties under the cherry trees have been curtailed out of respect for the survivors
well, can't stay on long, got to go sleep...
seems suddenly, life is so busy
but in a very VERY good way...
:)
hope you are doing well, across the ol' seas, today, jan...
happy good day, to you... :)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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As an interesting little hint from the Universe, two different reactor sites have lost power since this accident. One in Japan after an aftershock (and the backup barely worked)
and the other in the US, after tornados, Backup power saved the day
Thats a lot of close calls for a month or two
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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From
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/06_16.html
IAEA: Contaminated water may reach US West Coast
The International Atomic Energy Agency says radioactive water leaked from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in northeastern Japan may reach the West Coast of North America in one or 2 years.
The nuclear watchdog held a briefing for member countries in Vienna on Thursday on the current situation at the plant, which has not been brought under control since the March 11th earthquake and tsunami.
The IAEA said that, based on an analysis of data provided by Japan and other sources, the contaminated water may spread across the Pacific on the Kuroshio current, and reach the coast of North America by next year at the earliest.
It also said traces of Cesium 134 and Cesium 137 leaking from the plant may be measured around the Pacific in 2 or 3 years, but at levels so low as to be of no threat to human health.
IAEA Deputy Director General Denis Flory referred to a roadmap to bring the plant under control, released last month by Tokyo Electric Power Company. He favorably assessed the plan and said the IAEA will closely monitor how it is implemented.
Friday, May 06, 2011 10:51 +0900 (JST)
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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That is awesome footage.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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If interested this wiki article is fairly accurate and detailed concerning what happened at the site, the details and mechanisms of the releases, and explains a lot of why and how it happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_nuclear_accidents
It also answers a question I had some time ago, "where the EDGs were?", and apparently they were in the basement of the TB, which is NOT a good place to have them. It also shows that they do have a RCIC system, that did operate in at least 1 unit for some days, but says nothig of the HPCI system, which delivers much more water. Still waiting for more details.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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On March 6, 2002, workers finally conducted the inspections and found that acid used in the cooling water had eaten almost completely through the lid of the reactor. The plant was closed for two years for emergency repairs, two FirstEnergy engineers were convicted of lying to investigators and the company paid more than $33.5 million in civil and criminal penalties...
A friend of mine (a QC contactor, like I was then) is the guy who found that hole, big enough to fit a couple soda cans into*... With only the cladding left to contain the Rx pressure. Also, this is exactly what I was refferring to when I said, 'people are sitting in federal prisons for lying or falsifying documents'.
*Boat sample of the hole:
The part of the code (ASME Sec XI, VT-2 Examinations) for that system requires: (paraphrasing)
If boric acid, or evidence of it, is found in association with a primary system (RCS), in any degree, the source must be determined, quantified, and evaluated.
Boric acid was found, but insulation was never removed to determine source, quantify, and evaluate... It was assumed that it leaked from a mechanical connection, and engineers falsified documents to support their assumption. On subsequent inspection (it's done each time a unit is refueled [every 18 months for a PWR]), it was discovered again, but this time evalauted, as per code.
It's a big deal! They deserve to be in prison! And now, VT-2 boric acid inspections require additional training, documentation, and oversight at all US plants.
Edit... The rest of what is referred to in that article (re: Byron) is in regards to their service water system, which is pretty innoquous compared to primary systems... It's river water, lake water, or ocean water, depending on the nuke and its source. (Even reclaimed sewage/efluents from Phoenix for the Palo Verde site) In the case of Byron, it is the Rock River... I provided inspection for a major construction project there in the late 90's, when they replaced their Steam Generators.
MinWal (minumim wall thickness) is generally 87.5% of nominal for that piping system or pressure vessel, but actual depends on product, service, pressure, and temperature... For service water, all they really need is what is required structurally and to contain pressure. If there is a leak in that system, it generally just makes a mess, and reduces their efficiency (think heat engine, as they want a large delta). Note that I have nothing to do with determining what the minimum wall thickness shoud be, as that's up to engineers... But, I do tell them how thick it is by ultrasonically measuring the wall thickness. All nukes also have a FAC (Flow Accelerated Corrosion) Programs, where pipes are tested periodically to determine corrosion rates, to better determine when they need to be replaced.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 16, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
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US Media doesn't seem to cover this situation much anymore so I thought I drop in some info now and then
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_05.html
Tokyo Electric Power Company says most of the fuel rods in the No.1 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant had dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel within 16 hours of the earthquake on March 11th.
The plant operator revealed its findings on Sunday.
TEPCO said it analyzed the data and calculated a timeline for developments in the No. 1 reactor on the assumption that it lost its cooling system as soon as the tsunami hit.
The firm said that about four and half hours after the quake the level of water in the pressure vessel fell below the top of fuel rods and that parts of them began melting.
The temperature of the rods is believed to have reached 2,800 degrees Celsius at this stage, and the meltdown advanced rapidly.
Almost all the rods melted and dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel by 6:50 am on March 12th.
TEPCO said the temperature dropped after water was poured into the reactor starting at 5:50 AM the same day.
The firm says the melted rods created small holes in the bottom of the vessel. It believes the amount of radioactive substances that could spread from the reactor will be limited.
NHK's correspondent says TEPCO should analyze the situations at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors as soon as possible.
Monday, May 16, 2011 05:31 +0900 (JST)
Because of the above information, they've come to this
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_32.html
The operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant says it will change the method being used to cool 3 reactors now that it's been found the fuel rods in the No. 1 reactor have melted down.
Tokyo Electric Power Company says the meltdown is believed to have created holes in the pressure vessel protecting the reactor core and damaged the containment vessel.
As a result, highly radioactive water may be leaking from the containment vessel to the basement of the No. 1 reactor building.
TEPCO also says the gauges at the No.2 and 3 reactors might not be showing the actual water levels and that both reactors are likely to have undergone meltdowns.
The utility says the situation makes it difficult to fill the containment vessels of the reactors with water as planned, and that an alternate cooling method will have to be found.
It says it is now considering pumping water out of the containment vessels and circulating it back into the reactors after chilling it with heat exchangers.
Another method under study is pumping water from the basement and sending it back to the reactors after radioactive substances have been removed.
Despite these developments, TEPCO says it will keep to its timetable of achieving cold shutdown in 6 to 9 months. The utility is to announce on Tuesday an updated plan for bringing the crisis under control.
Monday, May 16, 2011 21:53 +0900 (JST)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 16, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
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Here's what Gunderson says about the current situation, which is far from safe or stable.
http://vimeo.com/23680177
To make a point on some of the discussions we've had here on Nuke safety. The NRC expects Zero possibility of leakage from containment vessels in a nuke plant and yet all three containment vessels of the affected reactors are leading in Japan.
Just more evidence that our educated wishful thinking science about nuclear safety can't be trusted when real world examples keep proving baseline assumptions to be inaccurate.
Those Japanese plants continue to foul the water and air, and one could easily fall over if there's another quake aftershock of consequence.
Peace
Karl
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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May 16, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
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Actually, there's quite a bit, just not so much in the media...
UPDATE AS OF 1:30 P.M. EDT, FRIDAY, MAY 13:
Below is a round-up of noteworthy news that happened this week with regard to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant and the U.S. nuclear industry's response.
Plant Status
Japan's nuclear safety agency has suggested that significant damage to fuel at Fukushima Daiichi 1 means that filling the reactor containment vessel with water may be meaningless. The agency’s Hidehiko Nishiyama said on Friday that melted fuel rods at the bottom of reactor 1 are being cooled by a small amount of water. He said he doubts that it is necessary to flood the containment vessel entirely, as workers have been trying to do. Tokyo Electric Power Co. said on Thursday that most of the fuel rods in the reactor are believed to be damaged and are at the bottom of the reactor's pressure vessel. Based on the temperature of the reactor vessel surface temperature, the company says the fuel apparently has cooled.
TEPCO announced this week delays in its schedule to contain the reactors. The company noted that while its work to restore reactor 1 is in progress, it had not begun these measures at the other reactors at the sites. It said that high levels of radiation in the reactor 1 building could force a change in plans.
TEPCO has accepted terms established by the Japanese government for state support to compensate those affected by the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Under the framework, a new state-backed institution will be set up to facilitate quick payments to those affected by the Fukushima events. The body would receive financial contributions from electric power companies that own nuclear power plants in Japan. The government will inject public funds by allocating to the institution special bonds that can be cashed whenever necessary. The institution would strengthen TEPCO's capital base by making use of these funds to pay compensation claims and make business investments. The institution would annually return a certain amount of money from TEPCO to the treasury to offset the use of the bonds. The government must pass the necessary legislation in the Diet to establish this framework, which is expected to be difficult given that the amount of compensation needed is not yet known.
TEPCO released a video this week of the reactor 3 spent fuel pool that shows debris and other material atop fuel racks in the pool. To see the video, click here for TEPCO’s Japanese-language website. A video of the reactor 4 spent fuel pool showed no debris.
The Japanese government plans to advise schools near the Fukushima facility that burying soil contaminated by radiation reduces its radiation level. The government said that burying topsoil 20 inches underground reduced its radiation level by 90 percent.
Chubu Electric Power Co. has agreed to the Japanese government’s request to shut down reactors at its Hamaoka nuclear power plant, about 200 miles southwest of Tokyo. The government had asked Chubu to implement safeguards against possible earthquakes and tsunamis. The company began shutdown of Hamaoka 4 on Friday.
Industry/Regulatory/Political Issues
The nuclear energy industry is “going to be held accountable for learning the lessons from Fukushima and for applying them accordingly. I know that we can meet that standard,” NEI President and CEO Marvin Fertel said at NEI’s annual Nuclear Energy Assembly this week in Washington, D.C. At the same meeting, James Ellis Jr., president and CEO of the Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, called on the industry to seize the opportunity presented by the Fukushima accident and take a leadership position in ensuring safety enhancements are adopted at nuclear energy facilities worldwide.
A U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission task force studying lessons learned from Fukushima reported to the commission May 12 that it “has not identified any issues that we think undermine our confidence in the continued safety and emergency planning of U.S. plants.” The three-month review likely will result in recommendations to enhance safety and preparedness at nuclear energy facilities, the task force reported. “That said, we do expect we will have findings and recommendations that will further enhance safety,” said Charles Miller, who leads the post-Fukushima task force. A longer-term review is scheduled to begin by the time the short-term study is complete.
The NRC has issued a bulletin to U.S. nuclear energy facility operators requesting information on how the plants are complying with requirements to manage the potential loss of large areas of the plant after extreme events. The agency wants to know how the plants ensure their strategies have remained effective over time. “The NRC continues to conclude these strategies can effectively cool down reactor cores and spent fuel pools even if a plant’s normal safety systems are damaged or unavailable,” the agency said in a press release. “The U.S. nuclear energy industry recognizes that we are accountable to independent oversight authorities and to the American people. We must demonstrate that our facilities are fully prepared to maintain safety, even in cases where we have made protective enhancements that go beyond the NRC’s regulatory requirements,” said Tony Pietrangelo, NEI’s chief nuclear officer and senior vice president. See NEI’s press release.
The NRC issued a second temporary instruction (TI 2515/184) requiring the inspection of the availability and readiness of severe accident management guidelines. NRC resident inspectors at each U.S. nuclear energy facility will conduct the inspections over the next three weeks, with support from the agency’s regional offices.
Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass.) yesterday announced the release of a report, “Fukushima Fallout: Regulatory Loopholes at U.S. Nuclear Power Plants.” Markey’s website describes the report as “a summary of Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) regulatory inadequacies, practices and decisions that impair effective nuclear safety oversight in the United States.”
Japan will reconsider its energy policy following the accident at Fukushima Daiichi, the prime minister said. Nuclear energy is considered important to Japan’s energy plans, but the government will take new looks at renewable sources and efficiency measures.
A forum held by The Women's Council on Energy and the Environment and Women in Nuclear yesterday in Washington, D.C., addressed the future of nuclear power in the wake of events at Fukushima Daiichi. Panelists included NEI’s Leslie Kass, senior director of business and policy programs; Annie Caputo, professional staff member of the U.S. Senate Environment and Public Works Committee; and Ed Lyman, senior scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists.
Media Highlights
Events at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan are not expected to “have a major impact on new nuclear plant licensing,” NEI President and CEO, Marvin Fertel said May 10 at the Nuclear Energy Assembly in Washington, D.C. Fertel anticipates that four to eight new reactors will be built in the U.S. by 2020. Bloomberg covered the speech.
James Ellis, president and CEO of the Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, called for the creation of a rapid response team that would be dispatched to major nuclear accidents in the United States and other countries. The creation of such a team is one of the lessons of the Fukushima nuclear accident in Japan, said Ellis in a Platts report on Wednesday.
The Associated Press published a report May 10 on Japan's long-term energy policy. Naoto Kan, Japan's prime minister, said the nation will need to "start from scratch," indicating the country will likely reassess a plan to obtain half the country's electricity from nuclear power and will instead promote renewable energy and conservation as a result of its ongoing nuclear crisis.
Reuters reported May 12 that a leak confirmed at Fukushima Daiichi reactor 1 may be an indicator of failed or melted fuel in the reactor and will likely complicate the cleanup of the facility. The exact location of the leak at reactor 1 remains unclear.
New NEI Products
NEI developed several videos this week with industry executives and energy thought leaders on steps that should be taken to enhance nuclear plant safety and finance new nuclear energy projects, as well as the outlook for nuclear energy after Fukushima. To see a list of the video clips, visit NEI's Web page for Nuclear Energy Assembly news coverage or NEI's YouTube channel.
The Week Ahead
The Blue Ribbon Commission on America’s Nuclear Future begins its meeting today with updates on Fukushima from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the Energy Department. The co-chairs of the commission’s three subcommittees will present their draft recommendations. View the webcast here.
Subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Science, Space and Technology are conducting a joint hearing today on nuclear energy risk management in view of events at Fukushima Daiichi. Witnesses include Lake Barrett, principal with L. Barrett Consulting LLC; Brian Sherrod, director of the NRC Office of Regulatory Research; John Boice, scientific director of the International Epidemiology Institute; and David Lochbaum, director of the Union of Concerned Scientists’ Nuclear Safety Project.
NEI will conduct a webinar on the aftermath of Fukushima for the National League of Cities on May 17.
http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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May 16, 2011 - 10:23pm PT
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TEPCO yesterday admitted ( 1 ) that a partial meltdown of the reactor 1 core at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant occurred a mere five hours after the tragic March 11 earthquake and tsunami, followed by a full meltdown within 16 hours.
water is escaping somewhere on a course cut by molten fuel--probably into the basement of the reactor building
Little has been mentioned about this, what the quote does not say is he died.
Authorities say the unidentified worker, a man in his 60s, collapsed on the job Saturday and was taken to a hospital.
Officials say the man became ill while carrying equipment to treat contaminated water that had been released from crippled reactors.
Hole or holes in pressure vessel.
Containment Vessel cracked and leaking
But all this is really no big deal and is no worse than your yearly dental XRay or sun bathing on the beach for an hour.
And, do not forget Solar is really bad cuz it is dangerous when it blows up.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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May 17, 2011 - 02:36am PT
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Uranium fuel rods in the reactors - Nos. 1, 2 and 3 - were uncovered for between six to 14 hours after the quake, rapidly heated and melted to the bottom of the steel pressure vessel intended to contain the fuel, officials now say.
In the case of the No. 1 reactor, the molten uranium appears to have leaked out of the vessel, scattering high-level radiation through the plant when emergency cooling operations resumed
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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May 17, 2011 - 02:42am PT
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The operator said a tsunami knocked out all its cooling systems at around 3:30 pm on March 11 soon after the quake hit and that the fuel rods were fully exposed at around 7:30 pm, Jiji reported.
By 9 pm, the temperature in the reactor vessel had soared to 2,800 degrees Celsius, and at around 6:50 am the following day, all molten fuel likely dropped to the bottom of the container, Jiji reported citing the analysis.
When the operator started to pump fresh water into the pressure vessel at around 5:50 am on March 12, its lower part was damaged, allowing water leak into the outer containment vessel, it said.
The operator released steam from the containment vessel at around 2:30 pm the same day, and water injections stopped at around 2:50 pm, but a hydrogen explosion occurred at 3:36 pm, the report said.
At 8 pm, the operator started to pour seawater into the pressure vessel.
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