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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 19, 2010 - 11:55am PT
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I think you can tell a climber who has been trained in either boots or an exceptionally stiff shoe: they are very precise in their footwork! It becomes ingrained in their style, and it's always impressive to see a real master.
When I began climbing, I was using the classic Kronhofer Kletterschue until my first trip to Yosemite in 1965. Chris Fredericks and Steve Thompson convinced me that I needed a stiffer shoe: enter the "Kletter Spiders." They were fine on many of the earlier climbs that I tried, but then--getting out onto Glacier Point Apron and Arches Terrace wasn't particularly lots of "fun."
I did several routes wearing Kronhofer Mountaineering boots during some periods of bad weather: I did my first-ever ascent of Redguard in Eldorado Canyon wearing them to help support a badly sprained ankle, too., and then the Green Slab under winter conditions with slush and ice cascading down the face.
I agree with Peter, that having a stiffer rock climbing shoe helps on many routes with wider cracks, and helps tremendously on steep edging.
My all-time favorite rock shoe is the La Sportiva Mariacher, and I still have 2 pair that are resoled now with C-4 rubber. I've done all my climbing in JTree using these shoes, and a huge number of climbs elsewhere: Durrance Route at Devils's Tower, Ruper, Yellow Spur, and Bastille-Hair City in Eldorado Canyon, and Topographical Oceans in the South Platte to name a few varied climbs.
Everyone should try climbing in some decent mountaineering boots, "just for grins."
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Sep 19, 2010 - 01:00pm PT
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We did all mountaineering rock routes in big boots and lots of rock routes. Like Phil said, the switch to Robbins was godsend, best of both worlds. Back then, I used Robbins to edge and Kronhoefer's (sp?) for smearing because their rubber was stickier than the Robbins (nowadays most guys would laugh at the difference).
Here's some pictures from Korea in 1975 (stationed in the Army), doing 5.8's and 5.9's in big boots.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 19, 2010 - 01:11pm PT
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The best thing about boots was not having to worry so much about your ankles during slab falls. They provided all the necessary support while geek skiing on stone!
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stonefly
Social climber
Alameda, California
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Sep 19, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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And before boots:
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R.B.
Big Wall climber
Land of the Lahar
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Sep 19, 2010 - 02:28pm PT
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I learned to climb in "waffle stompers"
I loved it when PA's and RR's came out.
EB's were mind altering.
3-Stripe feerays were the BOMB!
Now, so many choices, so little time.
My favorite boot was the "Black Beautys" Wonderfully stiff, but could grab a dime wide edge & stay!
BITD
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 19, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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Grossman needs to find that article about the dood in England doing some
classic in roller skates and boxing gloves...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 19, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
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I know the shot Reilly! News section of some Mountain if I recall. This is the best that I have!
From Climb.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 19, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
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That was quick and speedy service! I forgot that was on the 3rd Flatiron
and in the 50's! Notice that he also has boots on!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 19, 2010 - 07:43pm PT
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Maybe Jogill will share with us the tale of the fa of his route on the thimble, in '61? In boots !
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 19, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
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Masochist- someone who thinks rock climbing in boots is fun.
Realist- someone who realizes that rock climbing in boots is sometimes, not often, necessary.
Retard- I meant to say alpinist, someone who puts themselves into a POSITION where rock climbing in boots is necessary.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 19, 2010 - 10:59pm PT
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Jaybro-
FYI-many of the traditional classics (Fall Wall, Upper Fall Wall) at Vedauwoo have been climbed in Terray mountain boots by Jim Halfpenny. Quite a few climbers in the late 1960's did so in imitation of his style.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 19, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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Once upon a time climbers in Vancouver would gather at a sleazy bar called The Cecil every Wednesday night. Drink bad beer, talk about climbing, tell lies, make plans... The usual. One drunken evening somebody mentioned a route named "Foot in the Gravy."
Silly little 30-foot route in the Little Smoke Bluffs at Squamish. 10c on an 75-degree wall with two bolts.
And this started an argument. Don Serl was there that night, and he happened to say something like "Oh, right, neat little edging problem." To which Konrad Kraft replied "Edging? You must be thinking of something else. 'Foot in the Gravy' is a slab. Smearing all the way."
"Smearing? No, it's little edges from bottom to top."
"Edges? Are you nuts? It's a slab."
"Slab? No, you're nuts. There are edges everywhere you look. There are so many edges I could climb it in crampons."
"Bullsh#t."
"Not bullsh#t. I could front-point the whole thing."
"Wanna bet?"
"Sure."
So, the following weekend, everyone who had been in the pub that night wandered out to the Burgers & Fries cliff in the Smoke Bluffs, and watched Don lace up his mountain boots and lash on the crampons. And carefully and concisely front-point his way up 30 feet of 10c as a light rain began to fall.
Of course most of us had climbed the thing a hundred times in sticky shoes, but Don had that edge mentality that comes from spending thousands of hours in stiff boots on steep rock.
So what's the takeaway? Maybe it's in your own mind. Or, if you'd been standing where I was standing, you'd have been able to see the tier of cliffs above, and like me you'd have been torn between watching Don front-point his way up "Foot in the Gravy on a toprope" and looking up to watch Peter Croft solo "Flying Circus."
I mention this because the light rain had influenced Peter's choice of footwear...
He took off his shoes and climbed it in his socks.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Sep 19, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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Largo on the "Teflon" problem at Mt. Rubidoux, using the stiff
-as-a-board red PA's, circa 1972.
Comments by Hahn and Goldstone regarding the precise footwork that stiff boots, such as PA's and RD's, required are exactly right. Those boots had little margin for error when standing on an edge.
Once one got used to it, however, it was a very satisfying style of climbing that rewarded the commitment necessary to step up on a tiny edge and put out of your mind that your foot just might skate off at any moment.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Sep 19, 2010 - 11:20pm PT
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My boots from 1977. Still have them.
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gonamok
climber
aging malcontent
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Sep 19, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
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It wasnt all that horrible. I started climbing in Lowa Alpspitz, which were fairly heavy leather mountain boots with a stiff vibram sole. Graham Crackers (5.6) at Suicide was my first 5th class route and I didnt fall. They edged ok up to 5.6 or 5.7, but with zero feeling. You sighted your foot onto the edge and stood up on faith.
I will say that when i got my first pair of EBs they felt like miracle shoes.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Sep 19, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
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Spider: Thanks for the boot photo.
Those are Galibier Vercors. A great hiking and light mountaineering boot. They look like the Galibier Super-Guide, but didn't have the stiff -sole.
It is the same model of boot that I foolishly trotted up to "The Finger of Fate" with, and then stupidly led the jam-crack with in 1977.
It didn't fit worth a "shet" in the vertical hand-crack.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Sep 20, 2010 - 01:07am PT
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These had nice foam insulation. Used them in the snow and ice many times.
Okay for climbing. Edging was about it until the vibram wore down. Friction shoes are way better.
Bought those nuts from Fritz in about '74.
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utahman912
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Sep 20, 2010 - 11:55am PT
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I think you can tell a climber who has been trained in either boots or an exceptionally stiff shoe: they are very precise in their footwork! It becomes ingrained in their style, and it's always impressive to see a real master.
Very true... pulling up and then searching for a foot placement to stay on the rock nearly always resulted in a fall while wearing boots. Now with rock shoes it just mostly results in a fall :-)
BITD you had to learn the footwork. These days a lot of people think you can get away without it.
jb
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 20, 2010 - 11:59am PT
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I really think that there is no relationship between climbing with boots and good footwork. Good climbers use good footwork and mediocre climbers don't- simple as that.
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hossjulia
Social climber
Eastside
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Sep 21, 2010 - 08:05pm PT
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My first boots were Galibier Guides. Climbed in them for a bit, until I got one stuck in a crack, had to unlace the thing, downclimb and yank it out by hand, put it back on and continue.
I climbed in Reeboks for a year or so after that before I got my first pair of rock shoes. (old EB's, complete with holes, traded for a beer.)
(edited to edit! Like my rough draft? Librarian shut me down before I could clean it up. My secret is out.)
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