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Erik Sloan
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 31, 2009 - 02:49am PT
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Chris and I used a bunch of Fixe bolts years ago and I remember them being too hard to get in sometimes and the nuts came loose easy. Tried them out again this year and those kinks seem to have been worked out. Awesome bolts, though a little pricey.
Anyone have experience with the Hliti compared to the Fixe?
cheers
e
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2009 - 12:06pm PT
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anyone?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2009 - 12:07pm PT
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Kwik bolts...that is all I use.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Why are you guys still using these DAMN WEDGE BOLTS that cannot be removed for replacement?!?!?!? Didn’t we already go through this?
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!666!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Fixe ones totally suck – go try to chop one – way too easy to snap one with a hammer – you’d think it’s a design feature!
Aside from the double ring hangers, I think all of that Fixe crap needs to stay in Spain!!!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
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I would agree that, unless they are placed in soft rock, wedge bolts are almost impossible to pull a replace, but after having "replaced" over 500 bolts, I don't think you can say that there is one bolt that is easy to replace other than maybe the Fixe Triplex.
I have had 1/4" Rawl split shafts break off. I have had to chop out rusted Star Dryvins. I have had to patch and re-drill holes where the 5-piece Rawl bolt had it's sleeve so tight/rusted, that I couldn't pull it before trying to "funk out" the cone.
Using stainless steel hardware will prolong the life of a bolt and obviate the need for replacement for a long time.
Bruce
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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Minerals...I always drill a longer than the bolt hole...you don't need to pull...just hammer in and then cover with epoxy and rock dust...easy!
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:47pm PT
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“...just hammer in and then cover with epoxy and rock dust...easy!”
That is exactly what we are trying to AVOID!!! This means that you have to drill a new hole… where does it all end… and what if the original hole location is the only logical spot??? NO NO NO NO NO…!!!!!!!!
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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Then I suppose you're going to hate it when I suggest glue-ins...
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2009 - 02:50pm PT
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Calm down dude...I have been placing bolts for a long time...I know what I'm doing.
How many bolts have you placed and how many have you pulled and replaced?
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 31, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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Glue-ins have their purpose where normal bolts are not adequate, like on sea cliffs, for example.
“How many bolts have you placed and how many have you pulled and replaced?”
Bob, you posted this edit after I responded with the link. I wasn’t trying to get personal with this bolt stuff but you apparently would like it to go that way. Really?
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
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Happy New Year guys!
Brian(Minerals)--I think the snap easily feature was a part of the old Fixe bolts. I didn't break one of the batch I used but my buddy has used a bunch and I mentioned that too him and he said he had had the opposite experience.
I agree that a removeable bolt would be ideal, but I don't think we've come close to finding it yet. The Powers bolt has proven to loosen too reliably on big walls, where bolts are difficult to maintain. Haven't used the Triplex.
Bob--Steve G and others have pointed out here the difference between the Power Stud and Fixe being the way the threads made(milled on for the Fixe and attached as a separate piece for the PS). Are the Kwik bolts milled? Have you ever used Power Studs or Fixe's?
thanks
erik
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
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Minerals wrote: Bob, you posted this edit after I responded with the link. I wasn’t trying to get personal with this bolt stuff but you apparently would like it to go that way. Really?
Yes you were getting personal...you assumed that I didn't know what I was doing and respond like I was some kind of moron.
Erik...have used those bolts and don't like them. The kwik bolts works well in the high desert environment near the Front Range in Colorado and northern New Mexico.
My main climbing partner is an engineer who works at different nuclear plants..I think the government specs kwik bolts at these sites. Good enough for me.
Erik go here for more in depth information. http://media.iccsafe.org/news/eNews/2009v6n1/esreports_1208.pdf
Minerals..you still haven't answer my question?
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:23pm PT
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Oh, what the hell…
Including new quarter-inchers, new 3/8”, and new and old quarter-inchers replaced, I placed 165 bolts this year and 223 bolts last year in Tuolumne, mostly on lead. Off the top of my head, I don’t remember how many in 2007, but it was probably over 100. I’d have to look through my notes for more details. I have also placed hundreds of bolts and rivets on new wall routes and have replaced a good number of old bolts on Yosemite’s big walls over the years. All of these bolts were placed/replaced 100% by hand! You and your power drill(s) have probably placed way more bolts than I have over the years, but that doesn’t mean that your approach to bolt replacement is not shortsighted.
-Bryan
Erik, good to hear that Fixe upgraded their junk bolts. But, I still won’t place any wedge bolts, Fixe or otherwise, and hope that sooner or later others will do the same.
“The Powers bolt has proven to loosen too reliably on big walls, where bolts are difficult to maintain.”
You are referring to the stainless Power bolts, correct? Yes, I am aware of this problem, but, is it too unreasonable for wall climbers to bring a 1/2” wrench just in case, provided they are aware of rough torque specs? Or is the test of time with respect to wedge bolts guaranteed to turn rock into Swiss cheese?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
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Bryan..I hand drilled for a number of years so don't go that route. Read my last post then the link I posted...I think that I'm not being short sighted at all.
Thanks for your hard work.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:52pm PT
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Bob, it’s not the quality of the Hilti bolt that I’m worried about – it’s the type of bolt and the fact that it cannot be removed without destroying the hole. I know you’ve used a hand drill plenty and I had photos of you climbing, taped to the walls of my bedroom when I was a kid (amongst hundreds of other photos from climbing mags). But these days, I don’t hesitate to pitch a little towards those of you that use a power drill – it’s just my quirky way of saying that I disagree with those damn things! I get a little vocal on the wedge bolt thing and have for a while, including on Mucci’s thread. I certainly don’t have anything personal against you or Mucci because of it; I just wish that you guys would use different bolts!!!
Cheers, my fellow driller!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 31, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
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Bryan..thanks for the response even if it does make me feel old. There are a number of way to skin a cat. I don't see drilling another hole a big of deal as you...I would almost bet a $1,000 bucks that you couldn't find one of the batch holes that don't on few routes.
Again...thanks for all your hard work, be safe and have a happy new years.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Dec 31, 2009 - 05:04pm PT
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I think we should should stop dumbing the rock down for us mortals.... Free solo to the top baby!
Note: I'm too scared to free solo anymore
Happy New Year!
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Dec 31, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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I use 316 SS wedgies almost exclusively. Sure you can't replace them in the same hole, but the 316 is so damn resistant to corrosion (in non-chloride enviroments like the Sierras) that I'm pretty sure that they will outlast mankind's brief appearance on this planet.
Thing is, I do all my drilling ground up by hand- so it is tough to stand there another 5 minutes to make a hole deep enough for a 5-piece (OK sometimes I have a really good stance and I'm just being lazy!). Now if someone manufactured a 5-piece that was 1.75" long AND 316 SS, then I might switch.
At this moment, the wedgies work the best for me. My compromise is in using 316 SS over 304/ 18-8 SS such that future replacement may be a moot point anyway. I pay almost twice as much for the 316 ($1.85 vs $1.00) for 3/8" dia shorties. Still a good price though since I bulk order them through the company I work for (precast concrete). And I get an ICBO report rated anchor to boot.
FYI to the original poster- both Simpson and Powers make ICBO rated wedgies- and you may find them cheaper than Hilti/Fixe depending on your supplier.
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