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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 7, 2009 - 08:33pm PT
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 7, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
Rox wrote

"It is the most dramatic real life rendition of the memory hole and double think that I have ever seen. They CANNOT view your links. Its beyond the conception of all but a few to even VIEW the evidence. If you sat them in a dentist chair, cut off their eyelids and forced them to view it, I have no idea what would happen. Maybe they would die, their heads explode, they go insane?"

That's right Rox. We hang onto denial. Nothing will budge one who is threatened by a change in perspective.

Now it's also true that honest people could disagree with you about the evidence and likelihood of what you might believe. Personally, despite alleged information to the contrary, I figure it would be nuts any inside job NOT to fly an airliner into the Pentagon. But what do I know.

I do know this, you are right. NOBODY can bear to comment on operation northwoods for instance because they'd have to take their heads out of the sand. If ANY source were to claim that the documents from the Joint Chiefs about Northwoods were fake, they would immediately discredit those documents, but, in fact, no knowledgable source discredits it.

We just gloss over these issues because we are sheep. How many people are aware of the big business plot to depose FDR? Bet we'd have trouble convincing folks to believe that. Congress investigated it and found the facts that 2 time medal of honor winner General Butler alleged were true. Still, it's not taught in history and the public remains unaware.

Peace

Karl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

"The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was a reported political conspiracy in 1933 which involved wealthy businessmen plotting a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 1934 retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testified to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional committee that a group of men had approached him as part of a plot to overthrow Roosevelt in a coup.[1]

In the opinion of the committee these allegations were credible. One of the purported plotters, Gerald MacGuire, vehemently denied any such plot. In their report, the Congressional committee stated that it was able to confirm Butler's statements other than the proposal from MacGuire which it considered more or less confirmed by MacGuire's European reports.[2] However, no prosecutions or further investigations followed.

While historians have questioned whether or not a coup was actually close to execution, most agree that some sort of "wild scheme" was contemplated and discussed.[3][4][5][6][7] Contemporaneous media initially dismissed the plot, with a New York Times editorial characterizing it as a "gigantic hoax".[8]

When the committee's final report was released, the Times said the committee "purported to report that a two-month investigation had convinced it that General Butler's story of a Fascist march on Washington was alarmingly true" and "It also alleged that definite proof had been found that the much publicized Fascist march on Washington, which was to have been led by Major. Gen. Smedley D. Butler, retired, according to testimony at a hearing, was actually contemplated".[9]"

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 7, 2009 - 11:14pm PT
I'm telling you some of those nuns posted are pure kryptonite.


Anyway, here is the link to the official docs on Operation Northwoods from The National Security Archive, at GWU:

April 30, 2001


In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.”
(Klimmer - Ah, actually 9-11 would be)


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf


And here are the books that tell the story, and the complete trail transcript for the Assassination of MLK Jr. that involves US Special Forces soldiers as back-up assassins:

An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King, New and Updated Edition (Paperback)
~ William F. Pepper (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Act-State-Execution-Martin-Updated/dp/1844672859/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260244373&sr=1-1

Transcript: William F. Pepper: An Act of State -The Execution of Martin Luther King, talk at Modern Times Bookstore, San Francisco
http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/WFP020403.html
http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/MLKactOstate.html

It became evident that the military did not kill Martin King but that they were there in Memphis as what I've come to believe was a backup operation. Because King was never going to be allowed to leave Memphis. If the contract that was given didn't work these guys were going to do it. . . .
This was not a one-off for these guys. They were trained snipers. You remember a hundred cities burned in America in 1967. These guys were sent around the country, teams of them, into different cities. These particular fellows had been in Detroit, Newark and Tampa and possibly L.A. They were given mugbooks. Those mugbooks were the photographs of community leaders and people who were to be their targets. And they would be put in positions and they would take out community leaders who would somehow be killed in the course of the rioting that was going on in various cities. The assassination of Martin King was a part of what amounted to an on-going covert program in which they tried to suppress dissent and disruption in America.

Needless to say all of this started to flesh out in 1993 and '94. I did a work-in-progress up to that time called Orders To Kill. That book was never reviewed in America. This book will never be reviewed in America. Most masses of people here will never know anything about this story because the book will receive no attention whatsoever.

I have friends in a lot of media organizations, sometimes fairly senior journalists and reporters and they say, `Bill it's just not worth our jobs. Don't expect us to have you on in terms of this book. It's not worth our jobs.'

The consolidation of the control of the media is a major problem in this democracy as it is in most democracies today. I don't know how democracy can function when people are not allowed information that's essential for the decision-making process. But rather they get propaganda continually.





The Martin Luther King Conspiracy Exposed in Memphis
by Jim Douglass
Spring 2000
Probe Magazine
http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/MLKconExp.html

Pepper went a step beyond saying government agencies were responsible for the assassination. To whom in turn were those murderous agencies responsible? Not so much to government officials per se, Pepper asserted, as to the economic powerholders they represented who stood in the even deeper shadows behind the FBI, Army Intelligence, and their affiliates in covert action. By 1968, Pepper told the jury, "And today it is much worse in my view" -- "the decision-making processes in the United States were the representatives, the footsoldiers of the very economic interests that were going to suffer as a result of these times of changes [being actived by King]."
To say that U.S. government agencies killed Martin Luther King on the verge of the Poor People's Campaign is a way into the deeper truth that the economic powers that be (which dictate the policies of those agencies) killed him. In the Memphis prelude to the Washington campaign, King posed a threat to those powers of a non-violent revolutionary force. Just how determined they were to stop him before he reached Washington was revealed in the trial by the size and complexity of the plot to kill him.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 8, 2009 - 01:13am PT
Rokjox,

Here is another gift idea for the wife . . .

The 13th Juror: The Official Transcript of the Martin Luther King Assassination Conspiracy Trial (Paperback)
~ MLK The Truth LLC (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/13th-Juror-Transcript-Assassination-Conspiracy/dp/1442112158/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I94F8NTWP5XBD&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G



I'm glad I can help :-))

Too bad it is such a sad tearful topic though.


I'm not giving up on America -- not yet. There are very good people here, my family, my friends, and the landscape, the climbing, the skiing, and the paragliding etc. is like heaven.

We just got to keep opening eyes. It will take a lot of time. Perhaps even just one person at a time.
Mimi

climber
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:44am PT
Came across this classic again. Seemed like a good fit on this thread.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:56am PT
Mimi, to have credibility, you need to provide 40 or 50 links to conspiracy theory websites.
Mimi

climber
Aug 14, 2010 - 02:03am PT
I was trying to establish a rational basis of observation.
Mimi

climber
Aug 14, 2010 - 02:07am PT
bah humbug!

Truthers = Dufusoids
Mimi

climber
Aug 14, 2010 - 02:15am PT
Sorry skip, it's Friday night. It is hardd to believe that this guy was the mastermind and not Bush and Cheney.

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
A true sign of academic lazyness and also academic dishonesty is . . .

Condemnation before Investigation.


Anyone who throws out ad hominem attacks, and yet dosn't truly investigate a subject or topic matter before commenting . . . well, see sentence number one.


I've mentioned it several times before and I'll probably plug it again. If anyone wants to get up to speed on many true conspiracies and really know the truth of the matter and to use it as a great base to launch off on for further investigation on your part, I highly recommend Jesse Ventura's new book, "American Consapiracies." Very good and eye-opening book. Very well researched.

Conspiracies do indeed occur. Evil does beget evil. There are those in power who have secret agendas. If you are ignorant of this fact, then all I can say then is that you are ignorant.




Edit:

By the way, on another related topic of conspiracies . . . this new book just got released. Looks really good. Disclosure is definately happening drip by drip.


UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On the Record [Hardcover] Leslie Kean (Author)
Foreword by John Podesta

http://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials/dp/0307716848/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281806654&sr=8-1



The Truth is definately much stranger than most of us realize or can fathom.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
No it is because they have the power and money to avoid it at all costs. If the US governement doesn't want something investigated it will not be investigated. Period.

And the corporate owned media will play right along with the agenda.



By the way, there are paranormal phenomenon. Not to high-jack this thread but paranormal phenomenon does exist. But is it of GOD or those spirits that oppose him? GOD and his heavenly host don't hide. They say right out who they are when they have direct encounters with man, and tell them their purpose and to not be afraid. The enemy hides behind lies and deceit. They are all about fear and evil.

Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
http://bible.cc/ephesians/6-12.htm
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
Klimmer,
Despite the government's best efforts even the Air Force's 'Aurora' project
was outed despite nobody ever seeing the aircraft. The more they try to
hide stuff the more likely it is to be outed.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
LEB,

The point is you haven't checked out all the evidence. Much of the evidence is empirical, scientific, and can not be disbuted. You haven't taken the time to check it out.

Just like we now know that our governement was directly involved with the assissination of MLK. We know this. SF Soldiers have admitted this, yet who knows this? What media talks about this? No public mainstream media really talks about this.

Who ever controls the media, controls the message.
Jingy

Social climber
Nowhere
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
Rox - skeptical about the entire event.. both the WTC and Pentagon..

But I have yet to find evidence enough to yell it from the mountain top.

I won't be joining an organization that would have a person like me as a member...

But I hope that you find that one piece of proof that does it for you.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 14, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
Klimmer and LEB have now completely explained why we don't read about green mice in the news media.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 14, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
Mighty,
Then who's eating the green cheese?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Aug 14, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
did the Bush administration know of the 9-11 attack in advance but did nothing to stop it? possibly

was there a US government conspiracy that perpetrated the 9-11 events and made it appear that it was done by 19 young Arab terrorists? highly unlikely

was evidence falsified/planted to prove the US government's case? wouldn't surprise me

was OBL on the CIA payroll before he turned against us? yes

did the Bush administration use these events to perpetrate a war on Iraq? hell yes

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 14, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
Presumably the green mouse are eating their green cheese in an ark on the backside of the Moon.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 14, 2010 - 03:46pm PT
Perhaps we should let some mice with green fur loose at the FaceLift. Might be kind of entertaining. There's a precedent - last year we inadvertently smuggled a mouse from Ken's place in El Portal to the Visitor Centre, where it took a flying leap from the box of his pickup and made a break for it.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 14, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
RJ....anything is possible and maybe there are some coincidences on 9-11 but i've worked for 2 different government agencies and pulling something like the 9-11 attacks off would be extremely difficult for our bungling bureaucrats...? rj
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