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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 12:39am PT
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Largo,
I hear you. What "real" boulderer didn't try to do all of Gill's problems?
Curt
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2009 - 09:05am PT
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Certainly Largo and all the stonemasters were disciples of Gill,
in one sense or another, and as I said we all are if only that
we have been touched and influenced by Gill. The full list would be
a truly long one.
One of the greatest
moments of my bouldering career was when I made the second ascent
of Gill's "Acrobat Overhang," on Castle Rock. I was in my best shape
at that moment. Another was when Gill took me to a hidden area
of granite west of Horsetooth Reservoir and showed me a problem
he envisioned. I climbed it my first try. Those were short-lived
days, when I was at that level. Even the slightest injury, such as
when I tore the big tendon in my left middle finger, put an end to
doing things that hard. But I cherish the memory of our strolls through
Split Rocks, and visits to Estes Park (Gem Lake trail), our time on Flagstaff, at Horsetooth, and in Pueblo, like an apprentice artist
hanging with Da Vinci...
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 12, 2009 - 09:21am PT
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very excited to see this patrick.
i'm certain you'll have a big
turn out in the reverse front
range.
just another distant
disciple---dino
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 12, 2009 - 11:51am PT
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I was at the Gill boulders at Horse Tooth recently watching the next generation flail away at some of his classics and I realized after talking w/ some of them that they didn't even know that they were retreading on the ground of a giant.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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That's interesting and I've seen the same thing lately. I think there are so many people getting into climbing these days (many introduced via climbing gyms) that the very idea of any historical perspective existing is pretty much lost.
Curt
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 12, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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yes stinkeye,
follow yer own dreams
and one day you may send
the blue tape problem.
standing on the shoulders
of giants.............
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:00pm PT
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Oh I suck. I just went to write this on my calendar. I won't be teaching that day - it's Thanksgiving break. I'll be in Nashville. Darn. Oh man, I wish you guys had this any other week! I looked forward to meeting some of you I've known only online for years. Damn.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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It's too bad that it only takes one insignificant as#@&%e like stinkeye to torpedo an otherwise good thread.
Curt
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
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clearly your
mind never
left the gym.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
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Stinkeye, I wish you could meet John. You would find
him very caring and generous. He has always put others
before himself and would probably do the same for you.
He would appreciate your efforts and acknowledge your
achievements. It simply does not take away anything from
what you are about, your goals, your vision, your fine
abilities, and nor does it negate you in any way, for
a few people to remember and to look back with a little nostalgia
at a time that was important to them and significant to the
history of climbing. Sometimes I think newer climbers feel
threatened by such nostalgia, but perhaps one day you can
enjoy some of the same: i.e., let the years pass by and
find you want to look back and appreciate. Gill, least of all,
would ever imply his experience deserves more attention than
the experience of others. That's partly why we appreciate him
so much. He has not only been a master of rock but one of the
most humble individuals you could ever meet.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 04:08pm PT
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Well said, Pat. In addition, none of us are so "hard core" that we should feel above acknowledging truly significant contributions made by a relatively small number of genuine pioneers in our sport.
Curt
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 12, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
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stinky, i was still a "youngun" when i set my sights on repeating the routes of older climbers who were role models. watusi and i had only been climbing a couple of years when we set out to repeat all the bachar problems, particularly those at woodson. a year or so later ament's "master of rock" was published, and it had a huge influence on our bouldering.
if what you are suggesting is that many younger climbers have no interest in the historical context of the climbs they are attempting, well, i certainly won't hold it against them, as it will be their loss. but i do believe that understanding and appreciating the incredibly rich history of our craft adds a bonus dimension that just makes things that much more enjoyable and interesting and satisfying.
whatevs
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 09:09am PT
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Dylan now is a fully grown up man. Time flies.
That's in part what the film is about, how time
flies, yet how a small sub-culture of friends has
pretty much remained, no matter how their approach
to the art has changed...
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Evel
Trad climber
Slartibartfasts Newest Fjiord
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Nov 13, 2009 - 09:17am PT
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Hiyo Pat , Can't wait to see the film. Echo what Tar said, Calling all BoulderTacos!!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 13, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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is this thing gonna be released on dvd?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Nov 13, 2009 - 11:01am PT
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Sometimes I think newer climbers feel
threatened by such nostalgia, but perhaps one day you can
enjoy some of the same: i.e., let the years pass by and
find you want to look back and appreciate.
Beautifully put!
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Nov 13, 2009 - 11:05am PT
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stinkeye doesn't speak for me, nor does he speak of the majority of mid 20s climbers I know. Lots of people I know are very interested in the history.
The brother and I were most interested in the Gill problems at Vedauwoo, as well as the other 'historic' problems there...and went and seeked them out....
Hopefully I'll be able to see this film one day, though I don't think I'll be able to make the premier. Is it going to tour?
Cheers!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:46pm PT
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Practically every field I know has a collection of "radical know-nothings," people who are proud of their ignorance and who let no opportunity to proclaim and celebrate it go by. Their bold and deprecatory statements are often undercut by a sensitivity to implied criticism that borders on paranoia, causing them to attack forums that appreciate the knowledge they lack, even when the discussions involve no criticism, explicit or implied, of their chosen state of benightment.
But I see no particular evidence that this is an affliction of the young. Indeed, in the local politics where I live, the radical know-nothings are all retirees. And in the climbing gym I go to, where I could be the father of a large majority of the members and the grandfather of quite a few, I typically encounter a spontaneous and very enthusiastic interest in the past and how we got to where we are now. So I have to say that, at least from my admittedly narrow perspective, I see virtually no evidence that the "younger generation" (and there are five such generations from where I stand) is any more likely to embrace ignorance of their climbing roots than any other cohort of society.
It is also true, in any field, that as one gains in ability, experience and knowledge, interest increases in the broader outlines of the endeavor, rather than just the narrow focus of one's own efforts. The opportunity to put oneself in a broader human context, to understand how we fit in with the rest of our far-flung tribe, is one that we tend to appreciate more as our abilities mature (and I am not speaking here of decline!).
But speaking now of decline, it is also true that as one begins to discern the finish line through the fog ahead, there is a natural urge to look back at the course, to celebrate the physical and emotional high points, to reach out, after years of disconnection, to our fellow seekers with whom we shared so much. And certainly, in these tendencies to reminisce, there is the desire to have mattered, to have the sense that one will not simply vanish without a trace. And so comes a desire to create some kind of record for posterity and hope that it will be appreciated.
Should an aspiring young boulderer care that the problem they are working was created at the dawn of the age of bouldering in the U.S. by someone performing in solitude with no pads and no spotters, with shoes that would be viewed nowadays as barely acceptable for approaches? There are no "shoulds" in the climbing game. But I think Gill's problems are a kind of collective shrine, where generations of aspirants have come to measure themselves against a standard almost beyond the comprehension of Gill's contemporaries, and thereby to put their efforts in a human context beyond the ultimately vain and self-centered dimension of personal accomplishment.
Gill's abilities were prodigious. But his gift to us was his vision of the possible, or perhaps I should say his rejection of the impossible. No one, after Gill, could ever look at any problem, no matter how blank or overhanging, and not wonder whether there wasn't a way. And this attitude, which was not always a given, has provided an environment which has and continues to nurture the incredible efforts of today's contemporary climbers, who, whether they know it or not, are the beneficiaries of Gill's paradigm-changing achievements.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:55pm PT
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rgold, you so totally nailed it. nice.
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