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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 7, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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This bit of news in the July-August 1977 issue of Climbing got me thinking....
Who was the first person to sleep in a tensioned fabric, rectangular portaledge aloft on the Captain? I suppose a lawn chair would barely qualify....LOL
The Turnpike was put up by Bruce Hawkins, Ron Kauk, Dale Bard and Hugh Burton April of 77.
I am looking for specifics, if possible.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Didn't Jello use the "LURP tent" on a winter ascent of Half Dome in the early 1970's?
The LURP tent was a hanging predecessor of the porta-ledge, with an integrated fly.
I remember seeing pics of it in Chris Jones' Big Wall book from the 1970's.
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Double D
climber
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I remember Bruce telling me a story of a fixed cot that they had to cut loose in the wind and I think it was on turnpike but it was not a portable one...like the picture of Billy Westbay in Yosemite climber. I think they were submarine cots.
Interesting question though. One thing I do know is that portaledges were probably the single most important innovation in pushing the boundries of big wall climbing. The difference in being fully rested and clear headed after several days on the wall verses operating in a sleep deprived haze was monumental in my opinion.
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More Air
Big Wall climber
S.L.C.
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It was Greg Lowe & Robert Kiesel in 1972 who used their LURP tent on their winter ascent of Half Dome. Great read in the AAJ.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Double D, Those submarine cots were easily accessible. They were mounted on the walls of every cabin in Housekeeping Camp.
Ken
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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The subledge in question is on the left in this Yosemite Climber page along with DD's classic!
The caption sets the mark.
When Billy Westbay and Doug Snively were beneath El Capitan starting the Zodiac, the New Jersey Turnpike first ascent party was topping out and jettisoning their gear to pick up later. Lying invitingly in the brush nearby was their Navy surplus cot that begged for a second trip up the cliff. The photo shows Westbay enjoying its comfort during a civilized bivouac. Since that day in 1977 flat, collapsible and extremely comfortable beds have been designed that guarantee a good night's sleep and protection from the weather.
Anyone earlier, I wonder?!?
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Double D
climber
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That makes sense Ken... I guess I should have hung out with less dirt bags and more working folk and I would have been one of privileged. I always wondered where those things came from. Someone BITD tries a lawn chair rigged with webbing but I can't remember who. As I recall it collapsed on them and didn't work out so well.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
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Steve Bartlett (Crush) travelled up the Captain economy class BITD. He mentioned that fact to jog Werner's memory. "Remember me? I'm the crazy Brit that did the PO in a lawn chair!" Werner remembered him and laughed.
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Scott Cole
Trad climber
Jackson, WY^
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I remember watching Crush and team modifying their Chaise Lounge chairs in Mammoth before the PO. They were hanging out at Ricky Miller's outdoor shop and espousing the benefits of the Chaise Lounge. The ledge could be adjusted to function as a belay seat, as well as for sleeping. Mickey would be proud.
Scole
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Those portaledge photos from Yosemite Climber were the pictures I came back to again and again and again. It was the coolest thing. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine actually climbing those walls, and living in a ledge like those guys.
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Loomis
climber
*_*
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Mike Fogarty on an early Gramicci ledge. Knott El Cap.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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I found a couple pictures with parts of a Housekeeping cabin submarine bed ledge. The ledge is identical to the one Westbay is using. These photos are from December, 1977.
The cool thing about this ledge was you could toss it off and pick it up later from the base. It would flutter in random directions and you never knew where it would end up. The thing was indestructible.
Ken
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Gramicci must have hopped to it, because his ledges were available by '82 when I scored one. It was like sleeping at home. You would have sweet dreams all night and then wake up. At which point you would kind of blink your eyes, look down and then look up, realizing where you are, and go "Awww sh#t."
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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I think Billy W. and Bruce H. made the idea a reality for the Captain with the Curry cots. The next version I saw was from a guy called “Big Wally” Steve Brewer? (Werner is that right) I watched him struggle putting his together in the parking lot with his telescoping poles getting stuck and thought there could be a better way.
In the fall of 1977 I arrived in the valley with a hand full of ledges of various sizes for a few friends. Dale B. (5’8”) and I (6’2”) took ours up the Son of Heart for a test run and never looked back to soft hammocks. I left the park that season with about 25 preorders for the next spring. I was still making different sizes for people then. That got to complicated to keep track of whos who so I switched to 6’2” standard. I liked making the special order ones for people though, kind of personalized it. I remember Mark Hudon ordering his. One of the first 25
By 82 they had become quite popular and by around 86 I had made just over 500 of them before retiring the idea. There have been some very nice ledges made since.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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When I did the Trip in 82 one of us had a hastily made ledge that was destroyed in heavy winds. I think my buddy had one good night in it. After that it was a couple or three nights in 3 butt-bags. A couple of years later we got smarter and built our own collapsible sturdier ones that worked real well for several trips. Oh the horrors of hammocks; you can never have too many spreader bars.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
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When was this shot taken, Mike?
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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April 1978
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2009 - 07:02pm PT
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I went looking for a Lurp Tent and Shazzam! From Off Belay April 1974.
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Ryan Tetz
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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I got a kick out of the bivy anchor description "3-40 pitons or nuts" may be placed depending on the party. LOL Seriously 40 piton bivy!?
Those hammocks look like they sucked.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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I can say that hammocks sucked after ledges came out.
Although at the time, if you couldn't spend the night in a hammock, you were a pussy.
I had a great time once where my partner had a hammock and I had a ledge. He was suffering.
Those dinky flys on the grammiccis weren't too bad. I got rained on good and never got wet. You could even get up in the night and put it on..no big deal.
True suffering is spending the night in your harness or a butt bag.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Lawn chairs rule.
Back in 1983, when I spent some time in the Valley, and on the walls, Portaledges seemed absurdly expensive, we knew no one who had one to lend.
So instead I bought a 12.95 lawn chair from K-Mart in Mammoth. Took it up the PO Wall. Worked fine, for 10 nights. Threw it off the top, and it survived the fall--just. I sat in it once more, under El Cap, then it finally gave up and collapsed.
I took one on an attempt on the Nose Route, on Chasm View Wall; I recall lying in comfort, while Mike O'Donnell was wrestling with his early Gramicci ledge, which would keep twisting out of shape. Kinda sucked, carrying the thing back up the gully.
Took another up the Hallucinogen Wall (fifth ascent?). By this time, had it dialed. Some things are obvious, like using metal adjusting buckles, and (duh!) leaving the legs on for the extra rigidity. The final trick is to heavily duct-tape one edge, and that's the edge that scrapes on the wall. You also have to somewhat baby the thing; rough hauling can damage it, better to carry it if possible. The quality control is not quite up to modern professional portaledge standards, so it's a good idea to check out the rivets, and the ratcheting function for smoothness before buying. I kept the ex-Hallucinogen one for years after (it survived easily) but never did another big wall.
Shame they never caught on; people can be so frightened of trying what's not for sale in the big colorful catalogs.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Photo by Matt Dancy
Bed by K-Mart
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2009 - 08:56pm PT
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Freakin' classique and yellow too! Nice one Crusher!
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Mimi
climber
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That rig is amazing! I can't wait to see the matching fly.
Crusher, I always knew you were innovative but how comfortable was that thing? I'm sure a night on it wasn't the worst night you ever had traveling. LOL!
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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K-Mart--last bastion of weekend warrior!
Let's hear it for MAN, the Tool User.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Hey Crusher, you got any pics of your hammer from that ascent? Equally adaptive, if I recall correctly...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2009 - 11:30pm PT
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So what did Willie Lowe go on to do? Is that him bending the LURP tent frame while jugging up during the chosspile shoot?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! I laughed my ass off at this poor bastard's misery:
Who is this unfortunate?
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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Mar 11, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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Reinhard Karl?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Mar 11, 2009 - 12:22pm PT
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I clicked on this thread out of general interest but when I moved to this section and saw Walleye's picture of the single point without stretcher bars, a repressed memory bubbled up.
Dave Bircheff and I started up the Prow in the winter with a couple of those hammocks. When daylight broke, we were also broken and bailed. What a miserable night.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Mar 11, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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my bro made a custom belay seat out of a lawn chair,added aluminum bars that folded out against the wall so your legs wouldn't get pinched and you could face the wall, super comfy and light
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
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Suffering is a state of mind........
Tom Frost on the second ascent of the Dihedral Wall.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Mar 15, 2009 - 06:36pm PT
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I can never get over how much climbers in hammocks look like nice big fat juicy pieces of stored prey put up for a rainy day by giant wall spiders. Yummmm.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2009 - 01:30am PT
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Only served on crackers these days!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:39am PT
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It might be symbolic if climbers were served WITH crackers...
Yes, the spiders' prey analogy is a good one. Sort of like in The Hobbit, where all the dwarves get caught by spiders and wrapped up, and Bilbo rescues them.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 02:05am PT
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I like the prey thing, but I always thought it more like a womb. Waiting to be born or reborn or not.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2009 - 10:05am PT
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Fortunately, Shelob doesn't live under the summit overhangs! Good thing, eh?!? Have to sew a couple of scabbards into the haulbag wall.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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Crusher, I remember when that PO ascent occurred. I sold you some heads or fixed a friend or something. Storm, long delays, while you were perched up there and then you went for it, cool stuff.
The original story I heard was that you bivved in a leather motorcycle jacket, then I heard that that coat stayed on the ground. What did happen? Wasn't the hammer that Deuce refers to, a claw hammer?
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Fogarty
Big Wall climber
Back In Time
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Mar 23, 2009 - 12:00am PT
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Great photos all, I remember The CURRY cots, They were the Cadillac of The day?
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Mar 23, 2009 - 03:13am PT
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I haven't read this whole thread, but
didn't Harding and Caldwell have some
sort of bat tent porta ledge on Dawn Wall?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2009 - 10:20am PT
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Twenty six days in frameless Bat Tents! Makes my body ache just thinking about it. Six days ledgeless on the Trip was torture enough for me. Porty Lounge is mo betta!!!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2009 - 11:10am PT
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How about some prototype ledge shots Gramicci, Fishprods and A5?
I used a Vertical World Systems Ledge for years. Fig and Mark Axen were making them very early on. Lacking rigid corners, the VWS ledge required some skill and persistence to settle into. I will try to dig it out for show and tell.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2009 - 10:04pm PT
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But first a word from our sponsors. Life getting dull? Take a tip from Jello and...
From Cimbing Jan-Feb 1972.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2009 - 12:02pm PT
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Here are some shots of a Vertical World System ledge. I think that there are less than a dozen of them in existence, all told.
The long rail is three pieces of simple sleeved tubing with the middle section being a larger OD tubing. Cross rivets for stops and the bungee cord to keep it all together.
Corner detail showing the fabric tensioning design.
Corner tab detail for a tubing on tubing joint.
The rare VWS logo!
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 13, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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Just a few thoughts dislodged from cranial archives.
I have nothing but fond memories of my nights spent in a Robbins hammock way up above buildings (an old Bud Couch phrase). I loved those bivouacs and looked forward to them on every wall climb. I found the hammock bivouac to be a comfortable alternative to lying on cold granite or sitting in slings all night (as Boche and I did on the 6th ascent of the Leaning Tower – three months after the 3rd ascent with Kor).
Granted, all these hammock bivouacs were subject to summer conditions. When Boche and I did the 8th ascent of the Nose in 1967 we spent 7 days in cold pouring down rain – not exactly hammock weather – no place for hammocks on that route anyway. The water tumbling down the face would enter the sleeve of the uplifted piton –placing arm and pour through the shirt’s torso into our pants, down our legs, into our Kronhofers. The suede leather of the Kronhofer klettershue was very absorbent and could soak up hundreds of CCs of H2O. Quite conveniently, however, when one stepped up into the next aid sling … squish, out came all the water and the shoe was ready to accept the next load. Oh, the memories!
I also admit to a prejudice in that my mountaineering store, West Ridge Mountaineering, was selling our own version (an exact copy) of the Robbins hammock. The prejudice was further ingrained by my mother-in-law’s participation in the manufacturing (she was the manufacturer).
An aside: I noticed a photo of Frost in a net hammock. Robbins, of all people, insisted we take net hammocks on the 2nd ascent of the Dawn Wall. Big problem with those mothers was that if you dropped any peanuts or M&Ms in them they were unretrievable – lost to the abyss below. Robbins hammocks, being less porous – impervious in this case - allowed one to recover lost morsels – a big plus!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2009 - 01:12am PT
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Great hammock memories, Don. Do you have a shot of the West Ridge sewn tag? Belay seat to match?
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 19, 2009 - 01:48am PT
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Yes to both. Photos tomorrow.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Apr 19, 2009 - 02:05am PT
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I never fit very well in hamocks and wonder how Don Lauria found them so enjoyable. I hated them. Spreader bars did little. As DD said, the portaledge changed everything because you could actually sleep deeply in one.
JL
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
above the play park
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Apr 19, 2009 - 12:02pm PT
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I spent a week or so bumbling up the Trip in a lawnchair rig much like the Crusher model. After a night or two all the buckles failed to sustain their rigidity and the cot position was no longer attainable. I backed them up with slings to achieve a sort of dentist-chair position which was actually pretty comfortable, nothing like the shoulder-crushing horror stories I'm hearing from the hammock era. I remain light.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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Finally, Grossman, here's the photo.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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Sweet! Thanks, Don.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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Wall bump!
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hooblie
climber
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not my story, so i'll skip the colorful details that riveted the image in my memory. one of those subledge units made several trips up the captain during a time frame that happened to coincide with a rash of "airborne deliveries" which seemed like a breakthrough technology before the frowning commenced.
so a party of three on the trip bivi'd a couple pitches short of topping out. when the second left the station, the third began to stir and could no longer provide ballast for the ledge. the wind was having it's way with it so, not being the property of anyone in particular, it seemed right to just cut it loose.
well it cut a huge gracefull arc out to the side in a slicing airfoil sort of way, paused and reversed course to the other extreme, a real marvel to watch. trouble was it was climbing back up with each howling pass and the arc began to rotate as it moved to an overhead position. screams of delight morphed into the other kind.
what with all the wind, the leader had not been aware of any of this until it smashed into the wall alongside him as he hauled the sacks. words were exchanged, the ledge made its way to the deck, heart rates returned to normal, lesson learned.
the kinks in technique had revealed themselves in one fell swoop
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Fuzzywuzzy
climber
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Great memory of Charlie Fowler taping a chaise lounge together in the parking lot back in 89? for the Zodiac.
Quite the pro - a real utilitarian!
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Ray-J
Social climber
east L.A. vato...
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Great thread - stilla need for a really
Well designed featherweight hammock, eh?
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 27, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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Worthy of a bump. How many out there have slept in a hammock?
Prod.
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Ray-J
Social climber
east L.A. vato...
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Aug 27, 2009 - 07:56pm PT
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Twice? Yes...
The hidden key to
Making a light hammock
Womens swimwear.
And how light is light enough?
Like, belay seat light? or packcloth
Weight.
Designed for rapid deployment.
No rain fly...fair weather, quick and light...
Then, for the full leather types, a bunk w/ frame.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 27, 2009 - 09:23pm PT
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Hammocks eh? let's see,
NA wall, one night,
attempt on the New Dawn Night, 1 night
Dawn wall success, 1 night
Magic Mushroom, 1 night
Mescalito, 3 nights
PO Wall attempt, 1 night
Zodiac, 1 night.
8 nights total.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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Bump for a better night's sleep! ZZZZZZZZZZ
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 29, 2009 - 09:55am PT
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hey there say, really neat share, here, too...
thanks, say, i just saw the "pate steve grossman links thread" too...
fun stuff, today...
:)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
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Porta Bump!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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As a follow-up to this thread, who was the first climber to bivouac (on a climb) in a hammock in Yosemite, and when and where?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2010 - 03:33am PT
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Hammock bivis on the West Face of Sentinel in 1960. I will ask Tom about that historical detail. My guess would be a couple years prior to that. A night spent hanging in a butt bag would get a lot of folks thinking.
You folks with a good set of Chouinard catalogs should be able to narrow down the first appearence of the Robbins hammock. First use is going to be much harder. LOL
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
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Sufferin' Pioneers Bump!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I've slept in a forest single pointer, many nights, kinda like traction. I've had more nights in an original 'micci parallelogram. That was a quantum leap. Now what must a state of the art Fish ledge, be like?
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Small Prize
1.Name The Portaledges all Three
2.Climbers
3.Bonus Question, mystry Tennis Shoe, Climbers Name?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Johnson, Fogarty, with Dorton shooting the pic
On the Shroom early 80's, 4th/5th ascent?
No idea what ledges
Mucci
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jul 10, 2010 - 02:01am PT
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MUCCI,
please pick two size new black diamond camalots & you WIN!
I will mail them to you, EMAIL me your address, I may send MORE!
Your a nice guy and always fair on your post. (GAME OVER)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Jul 10, 2010 - 02:13am PT
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Dude, Mucci kicks ass. He's on it. Yo.(or some such)
Dude, my ledge is SO dialed from the 1st ledges, it's just sick.
Living in the Lap of Luxury.
Whoa.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Jul 10, 2010 - 02:28am PT
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Hey, Russ, we Used an Army cot on the second of Heading For Oblivion.
Hung out on it for 3 days.
Of course, we had some others, too, there were 3 of us.
It was actually a stretcher, though.
The daytime hang.
While toiling continues above. Oh, yeah.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Jul 10, 2010 - 02:29am PT
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Linus used a Gramicci on South SEas, poor bastard.
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jul 10, 2010 - 02:29am PT
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Fish, Russ it was called a _cot the poor guy LEDGE?
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jul 10, 2010 - 02:33am PT
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Captain...or Skully
I agree it was like playing twister in the virtical world!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 10, 2010 - 03:10am PT
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They still have their place.
I designed a hammock, complete with beer holders, daisies, and a bitchin spreader bar system.
Had a guy make em in thailand, Except he wouldn't add adjustable buckles! Said he was worried about failure, no amount of convincing would do any good.
Oh and it had a pocket sewn in for the thermarest, way comfy.
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jul 10, 2010 - 04:10am PT
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My First Ledge Was A CURRY COTT, That In My Mind was A Cadillac In The DAY.
Who on The Taco ever Used One?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 03:15pm PT
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Anders- To answer your question about the first hammock bivi in Yosemite I put Tom Frost on the case.
Second ascent of the Dihedral Wall in 1964 would seem to be the first use of hammocks. Tom said that Liz Robbins had sewn a prototype Robbins belay seat and simply expanded the design into the first Robbins two point hammock. Tom borrowed his european string hammock from Yvon Chouinard.
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delendaest
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 28, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
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hey steve, the article that you posted of the interview, is Mike Graham the one being interviewed? the idea of soloing on LSD blows my mind
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delendaest
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 28, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
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Mind blowing, that man is my hero. Great thread btw
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Aug 31, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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Cool thread.
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Gagner
climber
Boulder
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Aug 31, 2010 - 06:26pm PT
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I've spent several nights in hammocks - fun times, made even more so without spreader bars, or at least one ledge to hang the thing over.
One of my memories though is when John Barbella, Karl McConachie and I did Zodiac in '79 with a curry cot. It had recently been acquired and was still tied with cotton rope. We'd sit on it at night to eat and medicate, and every so often one of the cotton cords would abrade and break and whoever was sitting over it would drop a few inches. By the end of the trip it was pretty colorful with all of our tie-offs being used to fix the ledge. Those things were also fun to haul when windy - a gust would catch it like a sail and slam it into the wall, spin the pigs, and create a general cluster.
In '85 Barbella and I used an early Gramicci ledge on Bhagirathi III in the Himalaya. We had horrendous weather and didn't get too far on the route, but we did spend several nights in that ledge on the route - those early ledges were way less bomber in those conditions compared to the stuff we've got today.
Paul
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Andy KP
climber
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Spent a lot of nights without a ledge or hammok - but this night was a keeper (I slept on a belay seat and Matt got the hammock). Photo taken on a one day ascent of the Trip that ran into 3.
Best compromise I came up with for alpine walls is the sitting ledge (you can squeeze two people onto this!:
String hammocks have been used a lot in the alps, and work well on less steep ground (used like a seat).
andy
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
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Andy- Nice park bench! Really needs a empty gallon jug hanging below and a newsprint cocoon to complete the scene!
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TRo
climber
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Great Post; some additional questions and pictures required for verification.
First sex in portaledge...(Largos story comes to mind)
Anybody been in a Whillans Box?
Anyone tried to use one in Yosemite? (I could see Bridwell's tent transformed into a wall disco).
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there steve, say, not sure if i had gotten a chance to see this before... saw it was 2009....
this is really a neat thread.... lots to see, learn, and think on, too...
thanks for the neat share...
:)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2010 - 07:15pm PT
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I bet Donini has been in a Whillans.
Box on El Cap? Hey, it's California and those suckers weren't light! LOL
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Jon the Fat
Mountain climber
Jackson, WY
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Not the first by far, but here is my homemade portaledge on Moonlight Buttress. I wanted to give the lawn chair method a try sometime around Thanksgiving 2006. It worked wonders until I ratcheted the feet up too high and had to close the entire chair before opening it again. It was a pain but not a big problem.
Additionally, when I was "testing" it one night at home, I pulled my knees up to my chest to stretch my legs and in doing so I flipped the entire chair and cannonballed out from the top of it. Luckily (since I was high up in a tree) I was roped in and had no problems. I thought I had pissed myself, however it was just dew from the night. Good times.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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My bro Henry Means modified a lawn chair wtih folding arms that held the chair off the wall so your legs could fit comfortably in the chair facing the wall. Super nice belay seat , very light and easy to haul with the bag in winds. Nice to have back support while belaying.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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The big funk close to the road!
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BooDawg
Social climber
On the Road, Pacific Slope
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:32pm PT
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BASE104 (3/9/09): “True suffering is spending the night in your harness or a butt bag.”
Don Lauria’s great posting on April 13, 2009 of this thread does show a few cobwebs clinging to the overhangs of his cranium:
He and I were attempting to do the Tower in a single day, so we were carrying no hammocks when we were benighted at the top of the 7th pitch; consequently, we spent that night sitting in our Robbin’s belay seats, a sleepless, thirsty night for me at least.
His recollections about our climb of the Nose are about right except he forgot that I actually set up my Robbins hammock at Camp 4 and spent the night in it there, a not-very-comfortable bivie, considering the cold and rain and the inevitable cramped, abrasive contact with the rock there…
In April, ’69, Russ McLean and I made an unsuccessful attempt on the Dihedral Wall. Our retreat was precipitated by my Robbins hammock during our bivie at the top of the 7th pitch. Once in the hammock, it began to slowly tear down its long axis, despite its construction of “ripstop” nylon. Each time I’d move just a little bit, the hammock would tear just a little bit more, leaving me with even less support and forcing me to curl up into an even smaller ball. This, of course, meant that I’d put more weight on the remaining hammock, so the tearing continued all through the sleepless night.
When I was in Bishop last week, I stopped at the Warren Harding Museum, and Roger Derryberry and Mary Lou Long have a BatTent displayed there.
More about the Harding Museum in an upcoming thread that I am preparing…
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 10, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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Does it have regular hours?
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BooDawg
Social climber
On the Road, Pacific Slope
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Sep 10, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
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No regular hours. Roger and M.L. commute to Bishop from S. CA on some weekends. Guido and I found them there by chance on our recent visit. More later...
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DrDeeg
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
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One of Warren Harding's great talents is that he didn't need this kind of comfort. Al MacDonald told me that on the FA of the Leaning Tower, he was belaying Glen Denny. He looked over at Warren, who was standing in his slings, tied in with a waist loop, and fast asleep.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2010 - 04:12pm PT
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Lots of early ripstop hammocks suffered from ripgo under real conditions. Nice to have the fabric stretch but not the catastrophic failures!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 12, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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More about the Harding Museum in an upcoming thread that I am preparing…
Does it have regular hours? You mean like a bar or something?
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BooDawg
Social climber
Polynesian Paralysis
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Sep 12, 2010 - 06:20pm PT
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Close, Anders! It's more like live music is a high priority. I'd guess BYOB would certainly follow! Roger and Mary Lou are "disappointed" in the interest that climbers in the area have taken/not taken in their efforts to preserve Harding's legacy. More later.
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D.Eubanks
climber
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Feb 28, 2011 - 06:22am PT
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It was like sleeping at home. You would have sweet dreams all night, and then wake up. At this point you would kinda blink your eyes, look down then look up, realizing where you are, and go " awwww sh#t ".
Uh huhh, could'nt been said any better BASE104.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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PortaBump!
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D.Eubanks
climber
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1979, Zappa Dave Austin, Charlie Kable and Bill Lawrence took a double ledge up on South Seas. Does anyone know who might of made this double ledge BITD?
Edit: It was Dave Austins ledge.
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Ian Gill
Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
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We used these "Cocoons", designed and sewn by Richard Leversee, around '78-'80. Had a tape deck with an "extension speaker" that would reach from one Cocoon to the other. These things actually weren't bad, AND kept most of the rain out!
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WBraun
climber
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I slept there also in the same damn cocoon type. ^^^^
Woke up in the morning and could barely move my shoulders.
Those things suck big time.
I did the route in my free climbing Eb's because we thought we were gonna cut loose and free climb up there.
My toes were bleeding by the time we got to the top.
What an idiot ......
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2011 - 01:30am PT
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Hooooooooooooooooo Man! Ouch!
I feel your pain...on all levels! LOL
Who set you up on that one?
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Ian Gill
Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
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Yeah, they could be real shoulder crankers, no lie!
So we had spreader bars built in that kinda worked.
At any rate, was better than the night I spent sitting on a triangular ledge barely big enough for 2 asses to fit, leaning over forward with my head in a buttbag trying to catch some zzzzzzzzzzz's.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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In 1964 Royal and Liz made two prototype nylon belay seat slings (dark green) and gave me one of them to test. I liked it much better than standing in slings with a swami belt. Then they made two nylon hammocks (bright red) and gave me one of them to test. I used it for solo attempts on El Cap. Royal used the other ones. These did prove to work better than standing in slings and I still have them. They also proved there should be a better way. Then in the early 1980s Fish gave me one of his prototype portaledges to test on El Cap; and I still have that one also.
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D.Eubanks
climber
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Total misery...thank god for portaledges.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
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What an amazing thread! This is why I love Supertopo!
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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I never saw this one before, and it's one of the more interesting ones I've seen in a while now. Thanks for all who contributed!
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Jim Pettigrew
Social climber
Crowley Lake, CA
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Bruce Hawkins brought that bunk in from an army surplus store in Seattle (I think). I borrowed it for the Tangerine Trip with Mike White and Ed Berry. After topping out, we launched it off to Westbay and Snively starting the Zodiac. 1976 or 1977:)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
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Bump for a bunk in the sky...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 18, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
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Another, futuristic question....when will there be the last portaledge on El Cap?
Surely, someday climbing will have advanced to the point where all of the routes on El Cap will be considered day climbs.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Feb 18, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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I am going to rap it with a ledge...just in case. Maybe take the full junk show and complete the first multi day descent of El Cap.
Awesome thread by the way. One of the reasons why ST is pretty cool
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Feb 18, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
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Just don't Gugglimucci it when you do, Snow.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
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Jim- I hope that the simple pleasure of hanging in a portaledge in the middle of absurdity will be there for everyone.
That being said, grabbing a couple of Tiger Milk bars and some water and heading up El Cap solo like Tucker Tech stokes my imagination much more. Pure Muir style.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 25, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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I just picked up a never been used red Gramicci ledge. It's been sitting in a closet for years and should probably have stayed there but I couldnt resist. I plan on breaking it in on New Dawn this fall.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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May 25, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
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Jim- I hope that the simple pleasure of hanging in a portaledge in the middle of absurdity will be there for everyone.
My feeling exactly. I bought a Navy bunk in 1977 to solo Tangerine but it never saw any action. I bought a more modern portaledge once and traded it back for some orange plastic ice boots. Can't remember what I had in mind for it! Went up on the Muir Wall in 1990 with Bat Hammocks! Got to use em at the end of the big arching section but then had to come down after dropping one of the bags. I think it hit somebody in the side of the head too!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 25, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
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When I was a kid my dad bought an old surplus navy raft that we ended up using to run Hells Canyon on the Snake River. The boat came with two of the above mentioned navy beds that we used as seats in the raft. Had I known what they could have been used for at the time I would have kept them. After several years of use my dad sold the raft to a couple of long haired, hippy, commie pinko, wierdos, my dads exact words. They took the raft and the beds and ran the length of the Yukon River with it. I still keep an eye out for those old navy beds, I would use one on a wall in a heartbeat.
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Betty Uno
Mountain climber
Colorado
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May 26, 2013 - 07:23am PT
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Portaledge
Perfection. I can't believe it hasn't caught on as a cure for cancer or some thing or other. Hanging against a big wall, I mean.
I mean, I went to Crystal Healing Seminar. Well, if that works, and it does, wouldn't putting someone smack dab against a two thousand foot slab of a very special igneous schist with little dots of amber be effective?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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May 26, 2013 - 09:57am PT
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hanging in a portaledge in the middle of absurdity
Ha! Awesome description for a portaledge bivy!
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eagle
Trad climber
new paltz, ny
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i used a folding lawn chair when i did the zodiak back in 85 and i use a hammok with no spreader bar when i did the shield in 76
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Some people are still using curry cots. I was on a free climbing trip to the valley in 2010 and we were sharing a site in camp 4 with a brit and an austrian. They wanted to do mescalito but had no ledge or hammer or much of the other specialized gear. They got what looked like headboards from housekeeping (they looked like some of the earlier pics but they weren't full length). They slung them up in camp 4 and went for it. We had bets on the bridge that they wouldn't make it but they sent it clean. We were all impressed but they got it done. May the dirtbag spirit live forever.
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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Jun 14, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
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in the early eights ,my buddy jim anglin and i were using cots from our own sources[his,,,as a paramedic,,strecher revers fold, [very simple and strong] mine standard Hope it works,,anyway that squeeze you in half,bat cave,[better than a harness]got updated and as they say the rest is ,,,,something or another,,peace and love,,
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jun 26, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
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Check out this vintage wall hammock. Look how light and small it is, you could just have it as emergency gear.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
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I just picked up a mint condition B.A.T. Tent on ebay. Same design used on the FA of the Dawn Wall 45 years ago. According to the seller, Warren dubbed this particular model the B.A.T.H tent for its conspicuous condensation problems and they phased it right out of production.
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
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I have an old Forrest wall hammock with a fly. I am thinking of getting rid of. It was more comfortable that I thought it would be.
Anyone interested can PM me.
Thanks for posting these stories up Steve. Must be raining in Seattle too.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
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What sort of condition is it in?
Send me a photo if you would as I am interested if it is in good shape.
Yes it is raining up here but I bump when the sun is out too,
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Dec 12, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
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Actually it is a troll in excellent condition. No tears or abrasions that I could see and the elastic still works!
Whats a fair price?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
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The worth of a Troll...the eternal question.
I will PM you.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Dec 13, 2015 - 10:26am PT
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Gramicci Products brochure, circa early 80s.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
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Nice shot of Big Mike G in action. STUD!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
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Bump...
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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On the Nose FA we hauled a Stokes litter up as far as Dolt Tower using the Dolt Winch thinking to use it above if ledges were lacking, but never used it. Can't recall if we tossed it off or lowered it on the winch. So - not used, doesn't count, but the idea was there.
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john hansen
climber
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That is a cool piece of history from Wayne Merry above, thanks for sharing that with us all.
"not used but the idea was there"
I know Harding had a few other guys work on the route. Steck, Whitmore, Caldwell, maybe Dolt and Powell..? before the final push.
It would be great to hear your perspective of the climb and the gear and techniques , and the fun times you must have had ,and how it was back then..
I am thinking of starting a thread about who lead each pitch on the Nose on the first ascent .
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
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The novelty of a night spent in slings wears off quickly. LOL
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
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Bump for the bivy deluxe...
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 18, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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I was just reading a post I put in this thread from May 25, 2013 that said,
[quote]Went up on the Muir Wall in 1990 with Bat Hammocks! Got to use em at the end of the big arching section but then had to come down after dropping one of the bags. I think it hit somebody in the side of the head too! quote]
I don't know why I said I thought it hit somebody in the side of the head because it didn't. I don't know why I would have written that unless it was a running joke from other posts. It didn't happen. I don't even remember writing it. I'll try to edit that but if I can't I'll leave this. Strange....
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