Discussion Topic |
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 21, 2008 - 12:01am PT
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What is your favorite method for brewing coffee and why? I'm using a cheap drip coffee maker now but I'm thinking of turning into a coffee snob.
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east side underground
Trad climber
crowley ca
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Oct 21, 2008 - 12:07am PT
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I've got this cool plastic french press for the backcountry,eliminates the paper filters and bulky melita filter I used to carry and works as cup and bowl.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2008 - 05:53pm PT
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How does the taste of french press compare to other brewing methods. What are opinions of stove top espresso makers?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 21, 2008 - 05:59pm PT
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When I'm in the backcountry or on a wall, I just filter it through a sock. It cleans the sock, and adds body to the coffee.
This method usually works best with prospectors' coffee.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 21, 2008 - 06:01pm PT
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French press coffee with some good cream or whole milk is tasty. Stove top espresso makers are OK but the french press is as good or better and much easier to clean up after.
A buddy has this system and it might make a good cup in the backcountry:
http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress.htm
I use a jetboil french press attachment personally.
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dsqrd
climber
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Oct 21, 2008 - 06:01pm PT
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I've been using a stovetop espresso maker since I broke my french-press, the stovetop makes a rich cup, but you have to watch it closely to not boil it after. Outside I'm a fan of the single cup drip method since there's less to carry, but it's kind of a pain.
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Oct 21, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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French Press - tends to have more body and flavor than other brewing methods. Also tends to have more bitterness and acidity since there is no filtering medium. The grind of the beans is most important with a french press. Grind it too big and you won't get all the flavor, grind it too small and it will steep for too long and you will have a very bitter and strong coffee. Using a drip grind for a french press will give you some of the worst coffee you have ever had. I suspect that most people who try french press and don't like it probably didn't have the grind and time in the proper ratios. For a full flavored brew, french press is the way to go. This is the second hardest method.
Drip - Drip method tends to have less bitterness and acidity but also less flavor. The easiest of methods, it is kinda hard to screw up if you know a little of what your doing. The grind does not have to be as precise as with a french press and given the automatic coffee makers today are cheap and plentiful, this is the easiest way to a cup o joe. If you prefer milder tasting coffee, this is the way to go.
Hybrid drip - Chemex - This is my method when I am at home. Here is a link: http://www.chemexcoffeemaker.com/ The Chemex method uses a drip filter cone but you only drip about half the amount of water through the filter. The rest of the water you pour directly into the brewed coffee. With the proper grind, the coffee will come out of the filter stronger than normal drip coffee and since you don't over-brew the coffee you lose all excessive acidity and bitterness. In my opinion, the best method hands down.
Stove-top espresso - This method will generally give you 1.5-3oz. of espresso depending on the maker. To make "coffee" you need to add hot water to the espresso giving you an Americano. This method also requires a perfect grind to ensure no bitterness and you also need a perfect tamp on the grinds so you get the perfect creme and creme is the holy grail of espresso. Without the creme you will have a VERY bitter and acidic brew. If you know what your doing this method will give you an excellent STRONG cup of joe. But you need to practice, this is the hardest method. From when the espresso first starts to come out and until it is finished, the total elapsed time should be around 18 seconds (for 1.5 oz). Faster and you will have a watery brew, slower and it will be VERY bitter. Creme is the light brown foam that comes at the end of the brew cycle. If you don't have it or if your brew time is not around 18 seconds then you need to adjust your tamp and grind to the proper ratio. smaller grind/harder tamp = longer brew cycle and vice versa. A shot os espresso will last 10-20 seconds in the open air before it starts to lose it creme and full flavor. Either add hot water, hot milk or drink ASAP.
Other notes - The "official" measurement is 2 tablespoon of ground coffee per 8 oz. of water. Using different grinds (drip, french press, espresso, etc..) gives you different amounts in a tablespoon so you need to fiddle around for the perfect amount. A lot of this is to personal taste.
You should also never actually boil your water, you want it just a few degrees from boiling (at sea level). This will prevent your coffee from having a burnt or smokey taste.
Clean, pure water is the second most important element to great coffee. Always fill from the cold water tap (the hot water tap has built up minerals and sediment) and also clean your teakettle regularly.
The most important element is the coffee itself. Fresh beans are the best. You can freeze an UN-OPENED bag of coffee but once you open the bag, do not place it in the freezer. Keep it at room temperature in a AIRTIGHT container. For best results, grind your beans as you use them. This will ensure the freshest, best tasting cup you can have.
i think that about covers it....
-n
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Oct 21, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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I thought this would be a thread on how I missed the Camp 4 coffee this week!
BTW, I think the best way to brew coffee is in a giant percolator and then to bring it to climbers at Camp 4!
Actually, check out the cold brew method Toddy has. Very smooth, with all the full body taste of a good brew, and none of the acidity. Plus you still get all of the caffeine.
Jesse-
Yosemite Climbing Ranger
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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Oct 21, 2008 - 07:36pm PT
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If you go to Peet's and get a cup, it's drip.
Seems to have flavor, too.
Low maintenance with a cone.
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Oct 21, 2008 - 07:36pm PT
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Since Jesse brought it up...
Cold brew coffee - This method requires prior preparation but can give you an excellent brew. Essentially you will use cold water, coffee grounds and a large vessel with a very small drip hole. This is left overnight and the coffee will slowly drip out of the vessel in a concentrated form. Then all you do is add hot or cold water for your cup of joe. Very little bitterness and acidity with full flavor are the benefits. Extra long prep time is the main drawback.
turkish coffee - similar to cowboy coffee, this method uses an espresso (actually finer) grind and you boil the grinds with the water and pour the whole mix in a cup. It is generally pre-sweetened while it is being made and when you drink it you need to let the dregs settle first. This method will give you a very full flavor but it will be bitter and it will taste VERY strong. This is more of an acquired taste.
-n
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Oct 21, 2008 - 07:53pm PT
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very informative
gracias
still don't mean I won't leave my ground beans in a plastic box in an not very airtight container using whatever possible means (typically in the past a lexan french press, now using glass and stainless) I can find to make any kind of coffee, short of killing a person for their mug.
oh, and i like a bit of sugar to level off the bitterness since I boil my water all the way baby!!!
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
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Great info! How often do you buy your beans?
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2008 - 07:59pm PT
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Also what grinders do you recommend?
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2008 - 08:07pm PT
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Yeah I checked out some of the coffee forums , but I trust climbers more than anyone else..
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Trippel40
Social climber
CO
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Oct 21, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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If you use a coffee press, Ive fount that a piece of closed cell foam taped around it helps keep it warm longer.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Oct 21, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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Peet's, fresh ground, in a cone dripper. I make it thick and rich. The first cup in the morning is black. If I have a second cup I add cream.
Gooooooood shweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 22, 2008 - 01:05am PT
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hey there s.leeper... say, i LIKE that...
your quote:
"but i trust climbers more than anyone else"
... say, my mom taught us the ol' drip coffee, into a glass ceramic type pot..
but through the years we DO meet up with many a "coffee ways"... i like nearly all ways... but---NOT on the weak side, ever...
not sure, yet, if i have a fave...
thanks for the share all...
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officerugg
Social climber
maine
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Oct 22, 2008 - 01:17am PT
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you're all too good for folgers crystals?
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drljefe
climber
Calizona
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Oct 22, 2008 - 02:40am PT
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LA LLAVE. CONE. CREAM.
Preferrably as part of the "hippy speedball"
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Nohea
Trad climber
Aiea,Hi
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Oct 22, 2008 - 03:16am PT
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This champ works great in my home and at work. I use a snow peak press when on the trail.
Hey if anyone in the Tacostand was to buy the $200 Kuerig for $100 let me know. They gave me a save $100 note but I am not sure if I can transfer. Email and we can try.
Aloha,
wil
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Oct 22, 2008 - 03:36am PT
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Don't get me wrong...I will drink any of coffee, no matter how it is made. Especially if I am not the one making it; never look a gift horse in the mouth! But if you go by the rules you can get so much more out of your coffee!
For example. Peet's makes a blend called Major Dickenson's. Probably my favorite blend so far. When I use my large french press, a 8-9 second grind and 6 tablespoons of coffee, I can make it taste almost like chocolate. Amazing? No, not at all, but it makes for a great cup of coffee. And once you know how, it is easy to make your coffee taste good.
Trippel has a great idea of wrapping a french press in foam. I hadn't thought of that and would be great when I am camping. But also remember that the longer you leave coffee in a press, the more bitter and acidic it becomes.
How often to buy beans? When you use up the last of your current batch.
Oh, and if you put cream and/or sugar in your cup, then forget 90% of what I said. Cream and sugar negate the bitterness and acidity of over-brewed coffee. You can actually save a little money if you like to use cream and sugar. Try making your coffee any way you normally would but just make the grind of your beans a little finer and use less. You should be able to get the same strength and volume of coffee and use less beans at the same time. The coffee will be more bitter but you are covering that up with cream and sugar anyway. Might be to your taste or it might not, just a way to stretch your supply if your running low.
happy drinking
-n
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Oct 22, 2008 - 04:17am PT
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Generally, the longer the water contact time, the coarser the grind should be, and vice versa. It has to do with surface area, and the water pulling out the good parts only. Leave it in contact for too long and you get past the best parts and start getting the nasty, bitter aspects. So for a French press, use a coarse grind and leave it in for several minutes. For a Melita-type drip, use a medium grind. And for espresso, use a very fine grind, as the steam passes through the grinds quickly.
And avoid percolators if you can, even if they do look neato. They just keep recycling the water/coffee and leach out everything from the grounds, including all the stuff you don't want.
If you are eally adventerous, try roasting you own beans. There are lots of places on the internet to find green beans. My favorite is Sweet Marias. You can buy a home roaster for about $80, up to many hundreds of dollars. But you can also do a somewhat decent job with a popcorn popper. That way you get to control the roast and find out just the way you like it. Most commercial roasts are done too dark and you lose the subtle, complex flavors found in the finer beans.
And as for brewing methods, my favorites are a French press or a Melita cone filter. Both work great for camping and make a great cup.
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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Oct 22, 2008 - 10:13am PT
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Spot on with the home roasting thing, Climbrunride. I've been doing it a couple years and there's no comparison. I've found the Sweet Maria's quite helpful, with good selection and good prices. I started out with the DIY hot air popcorn thing, but after burning out 6 of them (overuse) I gave up and bought a proper roaster. Much less work that way.
And you're right about overroasting too.... Starbucks is way overroasted and tastes like charcoal.
As for method of making the coffee, my preference is for French Press although I've been very tempted by the Chemex brewers. Vacuum brewers look pretty neat too.
But depending on my mood though, I'll occasionally do Vietnamese or Indian coffee, which use a small drip contraption that sits on top of the cup and is filled with an ungodly amount of grounds. Both use twice the amount of grounds or so and usually have sweetened condensed milk. Indian usually gets spices added as well (cardemom is my favorite).
Anyway, I'm thinking its coffee-time.
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Oct 22, 2008 - 10:40am PT
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Thumbs up on the home roaster, best coffee I have ever had. It's kinda cool to roast your own and the variety is endless. It does take a bit of prep and our roaster is a pain in the ass cause we have to do it outside or we smoke up the house.
Jeff
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Oct 22, 2008 - 10:50am PT
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French press is caesome. Lot's of body, acidity.
No need to doctor it with milk or sugar. MMMMMMMM GOOOD.
And then I put the grounds into my compost pile.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2009 - 10:38pm PT
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Can anyone recommend an espresso machine for under 200$?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
a buttery white sand beach
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Jul 26, 2009 - 03:15am PT
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How did I miss a coffee thread?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
a buttery white sand beach... I wish!
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Jul 26, 2009 - 03:22am PT
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Under $200? A stovetop?
Long ago, I had one of those home Krups jobs. I eventually got the job done with it, but it was kind of like doing a hand stand with my arms and legs doing all kinds of funky contortions.
Get thee to a good resource like wholelattelove.com and you might find some good options there.
I've pretty much reached the point where, for me, the grinder, is as key, if not more so than the machine. I have a Gaggia MDF. It ain't cheap, it took me a while to a save my pennies, but it's worth every one of them. Especially when I can get a perfect grind for everything from French Press to espresso and even a bit finer than that.
On another note, my Hong Kong buds just gave me a bag of Bali coffee (as in Bali style). Just add hot water to the grounds and go. Simple and love that stuff. Brings back the memories of Ubud and all the lovely wildlife there.
Eric
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 26, 2009 - 03:24am PT
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hey there fletcher, say... well, you found it, now, and that's what counts...
so does:
a good cup of coffee....
god bless and may you enjoy one, come sun-up...
:)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 26, 2009 - 03:35am PT
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update on methode... jetboil french press mostly
I should pay attention to my grind, but sipping the coffee is almost just an excuse to have a morning in the mountains.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
a buttery white sand beach... I wish!
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Jul 26, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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I happened to do just that! Thanks neebee!
Eric
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richross
Trad climber
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Jul 26, 2009 - 02:06pm PT
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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Jul 26, 2009 - 02:11pm PT
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One of my favorite river muds is espresso Medaglio D' Oro. It's not bad in decaf either. Hope that helps, Tami.
Still, ya can't beat a french press with fresh-ground beans.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 26, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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Tami,
The only true pro-foodie I know (the chocolatier at seattle's best chocolate factory, also a boulderer) drinks the decaf from light house coffee roaster's in seattle... might be worth checking out next time you pass through:
http://www.lighthouseroasters.com/
I'm working on an aerobie press cup of brew at the moment...you guys got to check this thing out...30 buck press that makes a pretty damn good shot of espresso in 30 seconds with no electricity once you get the hang of it.
http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm
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perswig
climber
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Jul 26, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
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Ha, that little glimpse into Tami's plumbing (gotomyhappyplace, gotomyhappyplace, makethebadmangoaway) reminded me of working up in the Northeast Kingdom of VT just out of school.
Most of our dairy clients worked small farms, some trying to modernize and many not very interested. Before I got to know the area, the only hint of what kind of operation you'd find was whether the sick cow listed on the day's schedule was called #1439B or something like Sweet Emmylou. (As an aside, the farms still raising and treating their herd like members of the family were generally the places that would slip a jug of maple syrup or some home-made jam into the truck as a thankyou if you'd been called out at 0200 in February to pull a calf.)
One of the places we'd very rarely get called to was a tiny, falling-down barn, maybe 12 or 15 milkers at any given time. Dirty, dark place, cows thin to the point of emaciated; the farmer was probably pushing 70 and the most modern piece of equipment I ever saw him use was a rotary phone. He was also as bleak and dour as the barn, and poor as a pauper.
Visits to this place were always last-ditch events. If it was a calving problem, there'd be ruts behind the cow where the guy parked a tractor to anchor a comealong. If that didn't work, he'd call us.
Anyway, I only did surgery on his cows a few times, but each time, as I was up to my elbow in the abdomen, in the neardark, trying to reposition the abomasum and tack it in place without letting too much of the chaff sifting down from the hay mow work it's way into the 'surgery field', the whole stomach would slosh and slop like a keg half full, and I swore I could smell coffee coming from somewhere.
Eventually, I asked my boss, who didn't have a good answer, but a little later I was drawing blood from winners at the local fair racetrack with the retired vet who started the practice and I remembered to ask him. He laughed and said only a real old farmer would try that trick. At the first sign of a cow going off feed, they'd start drenching her with quarts of coffee, on the principle that caffeine increases G.I. motility and many issues with cows start with the gut. From the feel of things, I'd guess this guy was treating his sick cow for nearly a week before giving us a chance to do something.
What I don't know is how often this actually worked and kept him from having to call us at all.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jul 26, 2009 - 06:49pm PT
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Some of the best coffee I've ever had was my last trip to JT to the Fish Compound. Had this stove top espresso/mocha maker. Put water in the bottom, put some milk in the top, add heat, let cool, and savor.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
a buttery white sand beach... I wish!
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Jul 27, 2009 - 02:43am PT
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Hey Tami,
I'm pretty much a decaf drinker myself (anything too caffeinated after 2 pm and I'm staring at the ceiling at 3 am!).
I don't think there's any decaf that has zero caffeine, though I could be wrong, but it's pretty low. Some processes get more out than others from what I understand. I have found I'm much happier without the caffeine and love drinking a wide variety of grinds for the interesting flavors.
Thanks for sharing.... uh... your gastrointestinal tendencies... I think? :-) The caffeine isn't what's going to clear out the plumbing, it's something else in the coffee, so I'm not sure what to say about that.
There are so many small and local roasters out there... it's kind of like wine. You'll find someone who loves a label and another who hates it. Trick is to find your preference. Check out what others suggest here and elsewhere and you'll find your groove in time.
If you like your brew's flavor on the rather strong and intense side, check out Peet's (peets.com). They are an old time company (for the US) and have stayed pretty much in line with their roots. I like their Decaf French Roast, which has a pretty burly flavor. They also just came out with a decaf version of their long time classic Major Dickason's Blend.
Good luck... you live in a place where coffee would definitely lift my spirits if I lived there... it's a sunshine inducer for me!
Eric
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 27, 2009 - 03:38am PT
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hey there say... fletcher, just dropped in again to see if you had your coffee... nice to know you did...
say, saw someone had mentioned the mountains and coffee... they sure do seem to go together...
and look what else i've learned... oh my...
all aboaut perswig and cows... oh my.... :)
and tami... say, hoping and praying you find the best coffee, or coffee tricks, to work for your systems.... coffee is just so much fun..... at least half the fun, is the smell too:
and coffee pills.... wow, what will folks think of next...
thanks for the share, with that one, timidtoprope...
oh my.... but me, i reckon i will keep to the ol' mug-coffee, for the drinking-style kind... :)
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perswig
climber
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Jul 27, 2009 - 07:33am PT
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Um, any resemblance between the subjects of my last post and a certain Cannuck climber are purely coincidental.
The cows can't draw.
Dale
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Starbucks VIA is the t!ts if you want to go backcountry superlight! Mix it at least triple strength.
Stainless french press, Costo French Roast beans and a grinder for the home brew.
I tried the cold-brew method but found that it has waaay too much cafine. Crack levels.
A quad shot shot-in-the-dark aka depth charge aka eye opener from the local barista if I want to drop coin.
Coffee talk. If I drink enough coffee I can talk for days.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Oooh, a coffee thread.
I guess it doesn't help to say I don't have a single favorite way to prepare coffee. Mostly it's a drip maker, but I also like the french press, expresso and greek coffee. We have one of those backpack expresso makers, they work fairly well but make sure you use a hot stove. A week stove will take the water too long to boil and result in a nasty bitter brew.
Two important things, start with good freshly roasted beans, and match your grind to how you'll be making coffee. French presses require a courser blend, if you put in a find blend the coffee will be harsh and bitter. I like a fine blend for drip, expresso blend for expresso, and I have a hand grinder for greek coffee.
If you really want to be a coffee snob, you can get your own roaster and roast your own beans, but that's a whole nother subject.
Tami, according to google foo the US guvment sez to be decaf, a coffee can have no more than 2.5% of it's original caffeine. But caffeine only makes up ~1.5% of a coffee been, so a 99% caffeine free coffee is the same as 97.5% of the caffeine being removed. I generally don't drink decaf, but did get some Mexican decaf green beans that roasted up and made a superb coffee.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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s leeper, we coffee snobs here in SF love what we call pour over style coffee, aka, one cup at a time.
Look for hario brand cones and filters and buy your single origin (that would be non blended, lighter roasted coffee from one hacienda or farm or whatever) from one of these places:
Sightglass, Ritual, 4 Barrel, Scarlett City, Blue Bottle.
It'll cost you but that sh#t is delicious!
There is also a great contraption called a clever dripper-combo of drip w/ a gasket so it steeps a bit. It too makes killer one cup at a time style coffee.
The places i mentioned above, if you are in the bay area you should visit em all-temples of diferent style.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Lazy and thrifty, we use store-bought beans that are not particularly fresh-roasted, especially by the time we're at the bottom of the bag. But this week I have experimented by toasting the coffee once it's been ground. I spread it on foil in a toaster oven and toast until it just starts smoking. It really seems to wake up the flavor.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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A multi-cup/day kinda person, I take my coffee how I can get it. Free is nice, but I've also turned down free coffee that was crap.
At home, I use a french press. I like it cause an old housemate left it when she moved, and it's big enough for two-three cups. Pretty tasty actually.
Camping - drip cone, less messy then a french press and I can vary the strength to suit my whim. In the past when I don't want to deal with the cone, I use a stovetop espresso maker that is a token from some time in italy. It's fussy, but strangely sturdy, easy to clean, and low on bulk. I use this less now because I like the volume of the drip cone better. Sometimes a girl just needs more...heh! I have recently been shown the value of a dash of half and half in the morning cup.
Road trip - Pilot drip. There's worse, there's better, but I like Pilot, reliable.
Dehydrated - Donut Nation (Los Banos) coffee. Yeah, when I'm feeling thirsty, but don't have room in the bladder for coffee AND water, Donut Nation comes up on the left coming from The Valley. A 24hr joint, their coffee is juuust weak enough that it actually quenches my thirst.
My favorite way so far is sipping a steaming hot cup while sitting in my sleeping bag and having a smoke...mmmm
Cheers
ls
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2011 - 10:40pm PT
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That's where I stole the quote from ^^^
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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im sometimes taking it like chewing tabacco,
put a pinch in me gob
and go to generating saliva for the steep,
stains the teeth all to hell, this method.
f*#k it, though im god.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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im sometimes taking it like chewing tabacco,
put a pinch in me gob
and go to generating saliva for the steep,
stains the teeth all to hell, this method.
f*#k it, though im god.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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..did i said that twice, or more?
bit jittery, over 'ere.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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About to hop on the bike to pick up a half elbow of fresh locally roasted med/dark.
Always have a doppio con panna while I'm there.
"Talk amongst ya selves"
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tonesfrommars
Trad climber
California
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Can't believe Hudon hasn't hit this thread yet!
Some good info from Strider up near the top.
Re: how often to buy beans..
They say that after approx. 2 weeks they begin to go stale.
For sure keep 'em out of the freezer, especially after you've opened the bag once. Treat them the same way you would home grown tomatoes. No fridge, just werecks 'em.
When buying, I always look for a roast date on the bag. Without it, you could be buying month-old beans.
French press is my fave (would be espresso if I was enough of a geek to learn how to do it properly at home, but that's a projecty and gets expensive!@)
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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I just got back from a few days in Italy. They have this totally wired. If you really want to become a coffee snob you start by getting a grinder.
I recently got one and it changes everything. Way better aromatics!
Then you get a REALLY expensive espresso machine, hopefully with lots of chrome and maybe even with colored lights and stuff. All the good ones are made in Italy. (I actually have a really cheap plastic espresso machine which works pretty well.)
Then you figure out how to optimize temperature (by "temperature surfing", pressure, grind, etc. Then you finally get a couple of oz. of really good dark brown stuff.
Homebarista.com and coffeegeek.com are really great, a bit over the top.
Have fun!
Fred
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Jeebus FredC, there's cars in Boulder that aren't as big as that rig in the photo.
The first cup of each day is an opportunity. Mess it up, and the day is sure to be long and difficult. The simple Melita cone and filter set up has done me right for decades. In fact, I've kept the same plastic cone for more than 20 years. (Some folks might also say I should change a few pieces on my climbing rack for some newer ones.)
It's probably rude of me, but I insist on refreshing the cone and filter with newly ground beans, and not forcing a second cup from it. I'm pretty territorial about that first cup, which has occassionally caused some "uncomfortable" dynamics in certain social settings.
A little dash of something white, preferrably heavy cream, a seat outside in the morning sunshine, (in the perfect world, no noise, which with small children never happens) and the makings of a great day start to unfold.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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I like coffee.
I like coffee so much I'm...
... too Verklempt to tawk about it. Tawk amongstya selves.
Here's a tawpic, Cawfee.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Hippie speedball BUMP!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Coffee quality vs. money/effort runs on a bell curve to me.
Start at the bottom with low cost crappy canned grocery store grind, throw it in a dripper. Cheap, easy, but crappy.
Put in a little more effort, get some good beans, brew in a decent way. Very good coffee.
Spend a lot of money, grind it every time, use an expensive brewing system or worse go to an expensive coffee shop everyday and it's only marginally better (if at all) than the last option.
I buy a big bag of organic beans from costco. Grind about a weeks worth at a time. I use a plug in espresso maker and I ..gasp.. microwave some milk instead of steaming it, and it makes a great cup of faux latte with just a little effort at a low cost.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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As an experiment, go out and buy some coffee you know is fresh. (if you get it in a grocery store it could easily be three weeks to a month old. If it's from any of the nationally know roasters (starbucks, green mountain, peets) and is in a foil bag with a breather valve AND you live no where near where those company roast the coffee, you can bet it's older than three weeks). If you don't buy the coffee from where it's roasted, you have no idea how old it is.
Go buy some fresh coffee from a nearby roaster. At home, open the bag and put as much of the coffee (beans) as you can in a peanut butter jar or mayonnaise jar. Write the date on it somehow. Put the jars in a cool, dry place. In two weeks go out and buy some more coffee you know is fresh. Get the old coffee and brew two cups, one old and one new, exactly the same way. Let them cool off a bit and then taste them.
Report back here.
If you buy your coffee from me, you'll know you're always getting fresh coffee.
http://www.hoodrivercoffeeco.com
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Cwoffee Twalk yeah...
Believe it or not, roadies, McDonalds coffee is surprisingly really good. I read it in Consumer Reports and gave it a try. Cheap too, 1.50 for a large. But I know it's McDonalds and expect commentary.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I had some whack-job walk into the Coffee Co. a few years ago and tell me that he had friends who called coffee anymore than two days old "simply putrid". I laughed and told him that I'd give his friends $100 if they could tell the difference between a fresh roasted cup and a cup two weeks old 3 out of five times.
He never came back.
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tonesfrommars
Trad climber
California
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^^^ haha!
Isn't it true Mark that the freshly roasted coffee needs to off-gas for a day or two before you really wanna start using it anyway? I think i might have read that somewhere.
Good to support local roasters for sure.
If you're in the sticks and don't have any nearby, you can purchase via mail from places like bluebottle in SF and they time their shipping around the roasting schedule, so when you get your pound it's "post marked" and usually only 2-3 days out of the roaster.
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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I think coffee stores pretty well until it is ground. Even ground I have done some simple flavor tests and it is hard to tell.
Recently though I did buy a grinder. I did a series of shots with different grinds to optimize. I think it matters that you get your grind to "match" your espresso machine (or whatever). I would go to Peets and then to Verve and I'm sure their typical grinds varied all over the place. In fact, a couple of years ago Peets went from 5 to 3 (finer) for their espresso grind. Nasty man, at least on my machine.
I guess I am a convert to grind and then shoot. Like that lady in Italy.
Your personal machine really doesn't need three heads. A really good machine with one head will cost plenty.
In Italy we trust. Heck they invented most everything beautiful the worls has. Lamborgini, Ferarri, Sophia Loren! Sheesh!
Prego, presto, pronto! (I have no idea, but people say stuff like that over there)
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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The valve on the bag is a one way valve. Gas can go out but air cannot go in. Coffee de-gasses for up to ten days after it is roasted. If there were not a valve in the bag it would blow up tight like a balloon.
Certainly, the coffee tastes different right out of the roaster than ten days later after it has off-gassed. That might be the "leftovers taste better" kind of thing but "putrid", I don't think so.
If you store your coffee correctly (airtight container in a cool, dry place) after, let's say a month or so, and then if you brew that coffee alongside some coffee you know is fresh you'll think, "hmm... that's interesting, the older coffee has lost a bit of it's sparkle but it's certainly not "bad"". You won't spit out coffee even six month old, it will still taste like coffee but it won't have a lot of individual characteristics, high notes or low.
All in all, your method of storing, grinding and brewing will matter more to the taste of your coffee that how fresh it is.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
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Decent brew mind you, decent beans... but I ain't kidding myself Its like the difference between some really good gold and some really really good skunk....
Great analogy, DM!!
Spent 200$ on my machine and it's been great.
Anyone in the Austin, Texas area that can recommend a good source for roasted beans?
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
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has to be espresso, or why bother?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jiff, why's that?
You can't mean caffeine. Espresso has less caffeine in it that regular brewed coffee and far, far less than coffee brewed via a percolator.
French Roasted coffee had less caffeine that a light roasted coffee also. So an "espresso roast", a dark roast, maybe a french roast, brewed as espresso had even less caffeine.
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
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Mark,
I was refering to the brewing method, not the roast.
I have not found a brewing method that gives the depth of flavor I get with espresso.
I did switch from an espresso roast to a medium roast to get a bit more caffeine, though.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I don't drink that much straight espresso. If I'm out and about I'll usually have an americano. I know what you're saying though, certainly more full flavor.
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
|
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no big whoop
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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I'm f*#kin spraakked!
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beluga
climber
Nowhere
|
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I do not care for coffee. Nor does it care for me.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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instant for the approach
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
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What is it in coffee that makes my bunghole play the Vaughan Williams Tuba Concerto?
It has to be more than the caffeine.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
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bump for the good stuff
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npslatte
Sport climber
Sunnyvale, CA
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I switched to starbucks VIAS. They weight almost nothing and last for a long time without going bad, plus they include sweetener inside and I don't have to worry about bringing anything else.
While I do like good brewed coffee, my laziness wins out when it comes to backpacking/climbing.
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VID
Trad climber
baltimore maryland
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Aug 10, 2011 - 05:04am PT
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check out www.brewmug.com reg lake invented a cool unit filter is stored in wall of the mug -really simple and great coffee vid
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
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Aug 11, 2011 - 12:02am PT
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had 2 espresso shots 4 lunch. nice and tidy!
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
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Aug 11, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
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my espresso had a strange taste today, bad milk?
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Aug 11, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
|
today I had a soy latte to start out the day.
Right off the bat, soy lattes are different when it's fresh made steaming coconut soy milk right out of the maker.
That aside, I came to the realization that its ACTUALLY a caffeinated blended bean juice drink.
Bean juice...yum!
LS
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
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Aug 11, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
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ahh soy lattes, my daily fix!
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2011 - 06:26pm PT
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Had an americano today. Good stuff when you add primo espresso shots.
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Aug 15, 2011 - 07:35pm PT
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Just got back from a week in The Meadows. We used one of those "stovetop espresso makers". It was ok but it was really good to grind that Verve this morning.
I tried to buy a cup of espresso from the very cute young girl at the grill. She asked me if I had ever had "gas station" coffee? I took my eggs and ran.
FC
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
|
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Aug 15, 2011 - 08:49pm PT
|
Just put down a sweet double espresso, medium dark house blend Supreme Bean. Now I can pay attention the rest of the day.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2011 - 08:54pm PT
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yup that definately fits the bill ^^^^
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
|
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Aug 15, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
|
"gas station" coffee
run away, far far far away.
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Aug 16, 2011 - 12:49am PT
|
That dang machine has a pretty nice photo on the front, it looked like the stuff I got in Italy. I did not do the experiment. Eggs in the meadow, no coffee.
I bet if I learned to make really good coffee I could make it from a disguised VW van and make a fortune just driving around the campground and the turnouts where climbers park. (possible retirement strategy!)
I guess I would have to compete with all those "power" drinks that are on the market. There is something ominous about the small cans they come in. Monster, etc. Hmmm. Maybe not such a good retirement strategy.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
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Aug 16, 2011 - 06:28am PT
|
Discovered this weekend that Sprouts Cafe makes a pretty smooth 6pm double shot mocha that floated me all the way home.
My car mates were pleased.
Cheers
ls
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 16, 2011 - 11:02am PT
|
elate in a whisper.
contrive in silence.
toil in circles.
live without violence.
fvck the world donning a spiritual condom.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
|
not seeing the coffee connection
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 17, 2011 - 12:59pm PT
|
sleeper, that's the echo inside of the bean.
gesus krist how can you pen an inquiry upon coffeee if you've never been inside the bean?
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
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Aug 17, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
|
A question about expresso. It's been stated it has less caffeine than drip coffee. But if you make a cup of coffee in an expresso machine, does that have less caffeine than from a drip machine?
Lately I've been making my morning cup of coffee from our basic two shot braun. I must say the rich full bodied taste is a great way to start the morning!
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
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Mark H.?
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Swami Jr.
Trad climber
Bath, NY
|
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Aug 17, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
|
for real men, just drink coffee.
to snob it out, single pour drip, with filtered water, freshly roasted beans.
but be a real man, eh?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
|
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Aug 17, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
|
I'm down with the gas station stuff. Guess I trucked too long. Ruined me for coffee snobbery. Hehehe.
Hot & black, baby. Maybe a bit of sweetness.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Aug 17, 2011 - 11:53pm PT
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At home i drink dakine.
If forced to drink gas station shwah, i have to foof it up majorly with the french vanilla " cappucino" machine, half and half, the works.
Heresy? Not when in the middle of BFE.
And the sh!t can actually be pretty strong.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2011 - 01:03am PT
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
|
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:38am PT
|
dammit i need coffee...now!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
|
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:47am PT
|
Well, I'll make some in the A of M.
You're welcome to a cup or two.....
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
|
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Aug 25, 2011 - 01:50am PT
|
Why, thank you sir!
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NotIt
Trad climber
SF, CA
|
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Aug 25, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
|
tolman -
espresso has less caffeine than coffee when consumed in the average "drink" for each: roughly 8 oz of drip coffee vs. 2 shots of espresso.
Espresso has substantially MORE caffeine than drip coffee by VOLUME.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
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Aug 25, 2011 - 10:38pm PT
|
A question about expresso. It's been stated it has less caffeine than drip coffee. But if you make a cup of coffee in an expresso machine, does that have less caffeine than from a drip machine?
No, there is less caffeine in the coffee brewed in the espresso method. The grind will make a slight difference but not much.
Caffeine takes time to dissolve. When making espresso the water is forced through the coffee quickly thereby not giving the caffeine enough time to dissolve.
Also, the finer the grind the more surface area of coffee available to accept water which dissolves more caffeine.
So, Perc ground coffee (very coarse), brewed in an espresso maker, for one will taste terrible (since the water can't get to enough flavor components fast enough and also since there is less surface area for the water to attack), and will have less caffeine for the same reason.
Espresso ground coffee (very fine but not quite powder) Brewed in a Percolator will, for one, taste terrible since it is over extracted and will have as much caffeine as you can get out of a cup of coffee.
Remember this:
Fast brew methods need a fine grind. Espresso/Fast/Fine grind, not quite powder, grind
Slow brew methods need a coarser grind. Percolator/Slow/Coarse Grind, chunks.
Flat bottomed filters and cone filters give you a different dwell time, the time the coffee is actually involved with the water while it is filtering through.
If you make a cup of "drip coffee" in an espresso machine you have just made a crappy cup of coffee.
Although!
The sentence above is the industry standard line, if you like a cup of "drip coffee" brewed in an espresso maker, than I cannot argue with your tastes.
http://www.hoodrivercoffeeco.com
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
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Aug 26, 2011 - 12:05am PT
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i'm rocking this unit. pulls a good shot, and has paid for itself many times over.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2011 - 12:37am PT
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holy smokes, thats a bad ass machine!
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apogee
climber
|
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Aug 26, 2011 - 12:40am PT
|
Dark muddy french press hot steaming morning
Smoothed with milkfat to the color of Michael Jackson's skin ca. 1989
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Aug 26, 2011 - 08:37am PT
|
I am in central Mexico this week and it is hard to understand how a whole country can treat coffee so badly. it's enough to drive a person to tea (almost).
I like the look of that espresso machine! I have not made the leap yet.
Mr. Airport
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:57pm PT
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I've met Juan Valdez.
He was at a coffee trade show once when Peggy and I first started the Coffee Co. in the early 90s.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2011 - 05:05pm PT
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Yes Mexicans don't understand coffee at all. But they make a wicked salsa!
My bro in laws have a restaurant in Mexico City and they have one of those restaurant grade espresso machines. Their only sin with espresso is they add tons of sugar and lots of milk in their lattes.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2011 - 05:23pm PT
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you must not be a tres leche fan, I'm not one either. el globo rivals any pastry shop here.
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2011 - 02:40am PT
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phuq, i could use a double shot!
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FredC
Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
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I bought a new pound of Verve coffee beans yesterday, ground some this morning and made a really great strong latte.
That super cool flavor gets lost in storage. I want to store in the freezer but people tell me that cool dark is the best.
Any coffee storage experts out there?
(Verve is a local roaster in the Santa Cruz area, very good stuff.)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
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Since so many Argentines are of Italian heritage espresso machines are widely
seen even down to Ushuaia. I don't know from whence their beans come but
they generally did them justice. Some very good gelato is also available in BA.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
|
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Argentina has the best served coffee I've had, although many Argentines I know claim that the Spanish make the best coffee.
Or was that steak?
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
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I was suprised that the best served coffee I've had was at the hotel I was staying at in Budapest, they also had incredible yogurt.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
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Don't put it in the freezer. Put it in an airtight container in a cool, dry place.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
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Dingus,
Perfect jar, although any mayonnaise, peanut butter, etc, jar will work.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
|
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
|
anywone 'ver sprinkle dry grounds on a bowl?
i brush my teeth with the leftover grounds.
they makes a good exfoliating facial scrub too,
when you got no oxy around.
i wanna wanna wanna be a hobo again.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:00pm PT
|
mmm, I'm going to have to remember the deal about the coffee bean chocolate clusters.
What a great idea!
Do you guys have a preference in beans? And chocolate that has a low melt?
mmmmm....sipping on my bean juice right now and it's just so much awesome.
Cheers
LS
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P.Rob
Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
|
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:16pm PT
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“Turkish coffee - similar to cowboy coffee, this method uses an espresso (actually finer) grind and you boil the grinds with the water and pour the whole mix in a cup. It is generally pre-sweetened while it is being made and when you drink it you need to let the dregs settle first. This method will give you a very full flavor but it will be bitter and it will taste VERY strong. This is more of an acquired taste”.
This is the minimalist approach, easily performed and I believe better than espresso or similarly strong brews. Do be careful about the appellation “Turkish” as there might be some historic ethnic sensitivity, and depending on location you might get more than just a cup of Joe. Armenians & Lebanese will often put whole cardamom in as it is brewing as it gives some interesting notes. My experience it is most often filtered through a sieve as it is poured into very tiny, but sufficient cups. If you have the talent around you at the time, emptied cups will be flipped upside down upon a saucer and the dregs/sediment pattern will be read and your future foretold … heh heh just like a scientist
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
|
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Apr 28, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
|
I just love afternoon coffee!
Wait, it's evening.
I just love evening coffee!
Even if it is this morning's dregs nuked up!
Yum!
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
|
double shot espresso to get the last work day started!
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Kristen
climber
|
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Oct 12, 2012 - 10:32pm PT
|
I like the aeropress, (http://aerobie.com/products/aeropress.htm);. I hand grind (have an antique burr grinder my partner's grandparents brought from netherlands in the '20's), but easier methods work great with this too. I find it handy that I can make an espresso, machiato, latte, or americano all with this little gizmo. It really does make an amazing cup, imo.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2012 - 12:51am PT
|
I've seen that device before, looks handy!
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
|
I think we need 2 coffee threads because it's Friday.
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
|
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Apr 30, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
|
nice machine
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
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It's now official - y'all are bonafide junkies!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Caffeine Withdrawal Syndrome - An Official Diagnosis?
The newest edition of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) now includes an entry called “caffeine withdrawal.”
Both the DSM-IV and the new DSM-5 contain the category Caffeine-related disorders, however the new edition includes caffeine withdrawal as a consequence of caffeine intoxication. Symptoms of caffeine withdrawal include fatigue, headache, depressed mood and difficulty focusing.
The decision to include caffeine withdrawal syndrome has been met with some controversy since some view the disorder as being transitory. Once a person stops consuming caffeine the symptoms are usually short-lived. However, DSM-5 work-group members have relayed that enough data supports this syndrome and that it is important that mental health professionals be aware of it.
Charles O'Brien, MD, PhD, Chair of the Substance-Related Disorders Work Group reported, “In normal humans, after 2 or 3 cups of coffee even under double-blind conditions where people are given a placebo […] this shows a definite withdrawal.” Dr. O'Brien added that it isn't clear whether caffeine withdrawal syndrome is clinically significant or not so it has been “placed in Section III to stimulate further research.”
Caffeine is a mild stimulant that is commonly found in beverages such as coffee and soda. In May 2013, the FDA announced that it will investigate the safety of caffeine in food products, especially the impact on children and adolescents.
Currently, the FDA has cited 400mg caffeine per day (about 4–5 cups of coffee) as an amount not generally associated with negative effects in healthy adults.
The FDA wants to determine the safe level of total caffeine consumption, and better identify the consequences of all the caffeinated products in the food supply, to consumers who may be at risk from caffeine overconsumption.
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hamik
Mountain climber
Pasadena, CA
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S'all I'm gonna say on the matter.
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
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You look set!
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
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gawd i need a shot
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life is a bivouac
Trad climber
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Nov 15, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Coffee is the Elixir of Truth, Beauty, Life, and all things Good!
That's all I'm gonna say on that.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Dec 14, 2014 - 09:38am PT
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unless you're a super dirtbag,
do not read further....
i call this the first-kiss blend:
after my wife drinks her fill
each morning,
i run a new batch of water
over her once-used grounds.
economics you know.
those grounds are expensive
and i work them twice as hard.
these sloppy seconds cup
tastes just like licking an ashtray....
now wy do i call it the first kiss blend?
because my first kiss was upon the lips
of one sixth grade shawna,
who was new to our school
and she smoked cigarettes
and ever is my recollection.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Dec 14, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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We here at Casa Consuem More have been Cafe' snobs a long time.
When the company was small we ordered from the Gevalia club. Then big business took them over. the coffee was ruined and now is in the yellow bag in the supermarket, Boo Hiss!
The search goes on and we find that the elevation at which the beans are grown is important.
the coffee from south and Central America. seems to suite us. the middle of the road price is
what we do although some times we splurge like for Valentine's Day.
The more arid region beans like Kenyon seems to have a bitter after taste in three hour old brew. Some times that is okay cause we pound the stuff down, ten cups at a time between two.
edit
Some one took back what they said. Was it something That I said? If so ....
Well.... the "hippie finish" was the impetus for the following (see below)
and yes all good dogs go to coffee heaven where the Amsterdam finish is De'Regular!!
phfft phfft---€/:=D((()
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