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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 6, 2008 - 10:48am PT
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This is a youtube video of the proper usage of the death triangle in order to kill oneself.
DEATH TRIANGLE
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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"We call these, bomb-proof bolts."
No, WE ficking don't.
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scuffy b
climber
up the coast from Woodson
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The triangle this guy sets up could hardly be called a death
triangle. With his geometry there is insignificant load
multiplication.
All triangles are not equal.
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 11:07am PT
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yea but why would you teach a triangle? or why use it at all? and why doesn't he use two biners on the tie in?
EDIT: im gonna disagree with you on the geometry too. he's got almost an equalateral triangle which is signif. load increase.
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 11:15am PT
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Expert: Mike Braeuer lives in Austin, TX where he has climbed for 10 years. He runs Climb On Adventures, a guide service for fathers and sons. Read More
his guide service should be called fatherless sons. am i right?? burn.
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72hw
Trad climber
Hollyweird, CA
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I was shown how to rig this anchor when I first started building my own, however, it was rightly identified as one to never employ.
Maybe reclassify these as comedy clips if not removed entirely.
Just a thought.
EDIT: Over on the 'Expert Village' site he has a vid called "Learn tips on how to repel safely in the sport of rock climbing in this free video clip on extreme sports."
Well, he successfully repelled me safely away from his tutalige!
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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He's living proof that you don't have to be good to survive climbing.
It's so easy to do a V setup, you'd think in ten years he'd have figured out what MOST climbers learn in the first 3 months or less.
Write to expert village and complain.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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I am sure we have all rapped on a "Death Triangle".
:>)
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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His opposite and opposed carabiner demo is wrong too. He puts the biners on with gates and gate hinges facing the same way, then rotates one 180 degrees.
Apparently in ten years he's never encountered either book or person who could show him the correct way to do opposite and opposed biners.
Totally clueless.
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 11:43am PT
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all his videos are subpar id say. he doesn't mention back up knots on his rapping vid and why would you use biners on the chains every time but not use two on the tie in?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Expertvillage.com should change their URL to Idiots.com an Climb On Adventures should rename itself Die On Adventures
Mike Braeuer is an idiot, and not just because he built a death triangle. He starts of his lecture by telling us that the anchor needs to be SRENE and says that the NE stands for No Extension. And then he proceeds to build an anchor with extension.
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Count Chocula
climber
Choclovania
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you could also email or call the idiot himself at
mikebraeuer@gmail.com
(512) 680-9610
(814) 680-9610 Fax
4701 Staggerbrush # 826
Austin, Texas 78749
from his website
"Mike Braeuer has been rock and mountain climbing for 8 years. Some of his adventures include climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro (19,340 ft.) through Kenya and Tanzania, Africa, as well as free climbing in Golden, Boulder, and El Dorado Canyons in Colorado. His numerous trips to Enchanted Rock and countless climbs locally around the Austin Greenbelt provide the experience necessary for a fun filled and SAFE trip. "
and from a testimonial:
"...There's nothing like staring fear in the face and climbing higher to call the man out of a boy."
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raymond phule
climber
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I liked his sliding x. Huge extension. One locking biner at the power point but 2 locking biners on each bolt...
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Isn't Kilimanjaro a walk-up?
I think I'll email him as well.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana
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If he's an expert..then I'm a superduper expert. Suggest moving his video from "Youtube" to "YouTOOL". Amazing.
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 02:00pm PT
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his equalized anchor video shows
a. a slung boulder that appears to be basketball sized
b. the girth hitch on the tree set to cinch right on the water knot
c. 1 tie in biner again
d. 2 overhands right on top of eachother. never seen it done but it has to weaken the setup, no? if nothing else it's ugly as hell.
that he's alive is a testament to the bolting in texas. it wouldn't be as bad if he wasn't guiding little kids.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Little kids are light, so they don't test his crap setups very much.
Do write to expertvillage!
This guy is a menace.
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ec
climber
ca
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Brought to you by:
"The Climbing School of Natural Selection"
I fear for the unsuspecting that follow his 'instruction.'
 ec
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FinnMaCoul
Trad climber
Green Mountains, Vermont
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No way. That's not amusing in the least.
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ec
climber
ca
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I just gave the guy a personal email to cease and desist with the misinformation and to with all due respect...
get some formal instruction!
ec
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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What is really scary is he cant remember his own acronyms.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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...or at least get a good book.
Slakkey, I almost felt sorry for the guy trying to remember his acronyms. Hell, can't he edit the video and do it right instead of looking like an unreliable fool?
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FullMonty
Trad climber
Lanesville IN
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It really is mind bottling. If anyone knows a good hitman in the austin area, they should contact him asap. Either that or one of his "chalks" blows and some "nice Chirstian kids" eat it
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
Lanham MD
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I like how his first nut placement rips, LOL.
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bwancy1
Trad climber
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I often use a lump of chalks when there are no clips on the cliff face.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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why all the negativity?
at least when he puts those lockers in the bolts he puts the locking gates "safely facing away from the wall".
too many climbers out there anyway-
maybe the real problemn w/ his system is that he uses a biner for the anchor point?
just pull that rope right through, ya got 2 pieces of webbing, yer good ta go!
hmm- i wonder if that guy lives near lois, and would sell a gift certificate for guiding services?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Expert Village appears to be gathering place for Village Idiots, if these yukkers are any measure of the expertise we can expect. That place needs to update their zoning laws. But hey, its the Internet, we are all experts here. 2000 years after the Roman Empire and its still caveat emptor, dude.
As far as the American Death Triangle goes, some of the reactions are a tad hysterical, no? Have any Americans actually met their death at the hands of this perfidious triangle? I mean, the ADT is certainly a dumb way to use the materials you have at hand, it lacks redundancy when you could have it at no additional cost, it is a failure at load distribution in the sense that the load to each anchor can never be less than the load applied to the power point (at least in the ideal case when there is no friction at the bolts), and it would produce a shock load if one of the anchors fails. That said, rappelling and top-roping loads shouldn't exceed three, maybe four times body weight, and the illustrated bolts and double one-inch webbing slings are certainly up to far more than that. I ain't sayin' any of this is good, and it is absurd to actually promote it, but you don't have one foot in the grave and the other on a bananna peel of you rap off that rig either. Perhaps the weakest feature is not the ADT, but the single locker...
I guess I'm saying that the cause of safety isn't really well-served by screaming that the sky is falling at every breach of optimal practice. Perhaps this is a result of not really understanding the systems we use, instead taking the word of some other "expert," presumably in no way associated with the Expert Village, as a kind of gospel that must not be violated---and please do not ask why.
It does seem to me that we live in an age in which we are surrounded by and reliant on technology we do not understand, and in the face of our ignorance, we find ourselves in the role of primitives, operating on new-age superstition and the words of modern witch doctors. But this guy is such an egregious example of incompetence masquerading as expertise that I found myself wondering if it is all a put-on. How could he leave in the aimless, spastic, functionally blind fiddling with the nut (the chalk, that is) and the predictable, if still hilarious, failure of the resulting placement? Aren't witch doctors supposed to hide the evidence of their fallibility?
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
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i think he is either joking or is mentally slow. neither is an excuse for poor teaching practice. i almost think they are all a joke because of the opposite and opposed carabiners. how is it possible to mess that up?
edit i think the major concern is that this guy is calling himself a guide and teaching this stuff to his unsuspecting pupils, and that's unacceptable.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Yep, the rc thread covers all of this already, including multiple emails to the dude, who claims his "expert village" buds with the movie cameras put him up to it all, and this:
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I don't think anyone is going to die anytime soon on those TR setups.
The sum of all his errors is small compared to the dangers of just 1 piece of bad gear on lead.
It's a rather intersting part of the climber ego, I think, to get all bothered by this kind of person.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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"As far as the American Death Triangle goes, some of the reactions are a tad hysterical, no? Have any Americans actually met their death at the hands of this perfidious triangle?"
Using a death triagle probably won't kill you, but it's use demonstrates a carelessness and lack of knowledge. It's the attitude that will kill you, eventually... maybe.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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It's not just the ADT. It's errors in nearly EVERY one of the videos I saw, like the opposite and opposed biner demo (they were not opposite and opposed). The errors do add up, and there are a lot to add.
Besides, maybe THAT ADT won't kill you, but what if someone learns it from him, then sets a gear anchor with the same ADT? Maybe then the force multiplier does em in. Well they COULD have learned the V setup, and been a lot better off.
Why some of you want to poo-poo the issue is beyond me. Might as well say, it's never a big deal. Well, it isn't a big deal til something goes wrong, and then the dumb butt is dead or really hurt.
Yeah, you can clip in instead of tying in, it will work most of the time. But once in a while, it fails. Yeah you can get away with chaining biners, cause it only fails once in a while. Seting improper opposite and opposed biners will almost never fail, but it can. Biner gates facing the rock only biters you on the a$$ if you are very unlucky, and fall in just the right way that the biner slaps the rock and opens, and even then you hvae to have enough force to snap the spine of the biner-- not very likely to happen, but when it does, and IT DOES happen, then you are dead.
All these things add up to general incompetence, and the attitude that it's no big deal smacks of complacency, which gets you just as dead as dumba$$ed noobery.
You know who lowered me off the end of the rope, letting the end run out his belay device? A famous, daring, highly respected southern climber, that's who. You wanna know how I hit the ground from lead my one and only time to ever hit the ground while leading a trad climb? It was cause I got really stupid and complacent.
Yes, it usually takes a lot to get hurt climbing, (and usually you never even know how close you were to doom, if you've been doing something stupid for years and getting by with it) but if you are unlucky, it takes very little, and only one failure is all it takes.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Stupid Texan...
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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American Death Triangle? Isn't that really just some righteous retro action, like hip belays and biner brakes?
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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CMAC, please divide the forum into different sections. This would go into "NOOBS analyzing anchors or accidents".
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 07:36pm PT
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im with dirt. i could care less if flamin on this guy hurts his feelins or makes the community look like style fascists. his instruction is unecessarily and abormally less safe than it could be. so his buddies convinced him to put the movies on village idiot. maybe he learned somethin.. whatev.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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I wasn't aware ('til now) that protection was used to prevent a fall.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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You guys need to lighten up. Myself, I can't wait to use that "lump of chalks" line! "Careful with that lump of chalks, they're like gold!"
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Hip belays and biner brakes have their place, same as a munter hitch. You can never know too many ways to do things, so long as you know when and why.
But somebody posting to all the world about how to do things wrong and claiming it's the right way, has no business doing so.
There are already plenty of shallow end of the gene poolers out there just waiting to killed climbing, and whenever some dumbazz gets it, more often then not their family will be out with a lawsuit against any and all. All climbers loose when those suits are filed.
No wonder folks shake their heads at Texans.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Comical to say the least.
My fav, he says again and again how a locking carabiner is redundant.
Um, no it isn't.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Tolman, I was just joking about the hip belay and such being obsolete, but seemed like any rap station in the era when biner brakes were de rigeur was an ADT, hence my little snapshot of some anchor or other in the Valley from the 70's.
They're wrong now, but once they were the norm.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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KNOWING that the earth was flat was once the norm.
Spectral evidence, admissible in court, was once the norm.
Once you know better, WHY keep on with something less than good?
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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I have met some incredibly stoopid people in my life, and have also pulled some incredibly stoopid stunts as well.
I'm more often baffled by mankinds bs than brilliance, but it certainly runs the gamut.
I've rapped off my share of ADT dual 1/4" rawl bolt belay stations with so many layers of rotted slings you couldn't clip into the hangers. I'm also going about replacing them every time I come across them.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Well, I was going to mock the guy for his rope coiling video, it's hilarious. However, I've been sitting here for a couple of hours trying to make a seat harness out of webbing. So far I've created a spaghetti-like monster of tangles, but nothing like a harness.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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I tried making my own harness from 2" webbing for the swami and leg loops from 1" webbing.
Some things are much better bought than made.
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Darren D.
Social climber
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Even more than the unsafe climbing tips, the thing that bothered me the most with his videos is that he has to clear his throat between every sentence! Can someone get the guy a throat lozenge?!?
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bdaddy
climber
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All that is missing from his page is dirtineye's shoe lacing video, that would really tie it all together.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Hiya sh!thead, steal any fixed gear lately?
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bdaddy
climber
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For the millionth time dipshite, noone (I know)stole your friggin gear. Noone would bother wasting there time at the backwash gully piles you call routes anyway. Get a clue.
PS
check your laces
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WBraun
climber
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Hahahaha too funny.
Anyways .... we've all done dumber sh#t than this guy but we weren't making instructional videos. When making instructional videos, they should be made with the proper techniques and systems.
This guy is definitely blowing it big time and should not be instructing since he doesn't understand some of the more basic sound fundamentals of anchors and belay systems.
He should remove those videos.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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agree, if instructing, do it right.
sounds like he has a cough or something too.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Yeah, Werner, we've all done worse, at least I have. We've all also seen worse, you can bet.
There was a group of at-risk youth top-roping at Atlantis Wall one spring. They didn't realize how "at risk" they really were. Their "guides" had set up the ropes with one point anchors. One anchor, for example, was a single stopper. The "guide" had placed a cam over it to keep it from popping out of the crack. The cam wasn't attached to the rope in anyway, just sitting on top of the nut. Scary as hell.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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unbelievable! There are so many things wrong here that it has to be an elaborate troll. But why would someone spend so much time creating such a site? Unfvkn unreal-
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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From his website:
"Due to the dangerous nature of the sport, insurance is not an option. A relaese of liabilty must be signed and returned before any trips commence. The necessary waiver can be viewed and printed here. "
Does he guide without insurance?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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HAHAHA, bdaddy (anonymous intenrt wankabe) believes that exiting a 7 foot roof to a vertical wall is a gully? He must have learned his stuff from the guy in Texas.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Damn.
I've been doing it all wrong all this time.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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When I set up my triangle top rope anchors I make sure to use frictionless pulleys, other than that he is good to go!
Juan
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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I just watched the second video, what a f*#king moron.
Its a joke right?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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I got a response to my email:
"Thank you for your concern and response. Please convey your concern to the owner and distributor of the content at expert@expertvillage.com.
Many thanks!"
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Me too granite. Was just coming here to post the same thing!
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Griff
Social climber
Felton, PA
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Now that I think about it- most of the sketchy anchors I've seen at the crags involve olive-drab colored webbing.
Coincidence?
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kev
climber
CA
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I think this guy should get the new Supertaco 'UberTool' award.
This was ficking funny.
Ok time to pack my sh#t so I can get outa here :)
kev
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jsb
Trad climber
Bay area
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maybe he's a troll!
i've seen worse at rc.com.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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I don't think it is a troll he has a website up and running. The guy apparently wants to live the dream.
His resume'is pretty classic, a hike up Kilimanjaro and free climbing at a couple crags in CO.
The more I look at his website I'll bet he is climbing and guiding for GOD.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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whoa. I almost couldn't look.
SRENE. I think he missed a few letters. The faux rolex was a dead giveaway...
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Burns
Trad climber
Nowhere special
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If you're using the internet to figure out how to set a toprope anchor, you're just waiting in line to prove Darwin right to begin with.
Still, as someone pointed out earlier, any climbing accident does a disservice to the entire climbing community. Unless of course its this guy...
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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bump
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Jordan Ramey
Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
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Mar 25, 2008 - 10:15pm PT
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Ahhhh, his videos are all gone from Youtube and Expertvillage. I was trying to show someone how great they were. Should have made copies. :(
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