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WBraun
climber
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High quality cam video. I've even installed one in one of the Valley's crown vic's.
Not good to leave the guy laying there so close to the road. What if he got up all woozy and accidentally staggered into oncoming traffic.
Not going to comment on the officers actions. I would first have to be in his shoes at the very moment.
Basically you always cooperate. The guy was uncooperative and thus set the tone. Remember that officer is out there by himself and will do anything to protect himself if he even thinks there will be a problem. You can argue well the guy just walked away.
Yeah, but the trooper might have thought now the guy is going to take flight? And a bigger scenario might start up.
There's a ton of variables that come into play on these routine traffic stops, try one sometime and you'll see what I mean.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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WOW! What a dumbass!!
He definitely was asking for a tazering.
I have no sympathy for that idiot.
If you resist or don't follow instructions = Tazer.
That guy was gonna bolt or at least looked like he was.
The wife is lucky she didn't go for interfering.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Yeah it appears that the motorist wasn't complying...But the officer didn't seem like he was the sharpest tool in the shed either.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Did you hear some of crap that dude was saying to the cop?
Demanding to know this and that..like he was in charge.
Maybe he'll have better luck demanding things from the judge.
PS. If the cop has already written the ticket,
there is no chance in hell of talking your way out of it. Duh.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2007 - 12:22am PT
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They were both idiots, but the cop was being an idiot on the taxpayer's dime.
The cop is lucky the wife didn't have a CWP.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Just dump the tasers and go back to the 9mm.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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How was the cop threatened?
Was the guy farting?
Sorry. You get what you pay for. If you can't pay six figures to someone who carries weapons then you'll see more of this.
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Ricardo Carlos
Trad climber
Off center, CO.
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Attitude, Attitude , boys and girls.
Having been pulled over 36 times in the past 16 years. Resulting in four tickets two that stuck What can I say Attitude.
The guy learns a lesson
1 Argues with cop not real smart
2 Will not sign ticket . Give me a break, to what point
3 The guy walks around even puts his fingers of right hand in his pocket. After being told to stop and put his hands behind his back.
How fking clear is that.
Put your hands behind your back.
Guess in the 70s and early 80s I spent too much time not being noticed , even though my driving now gets me noticed.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Look, I agree with you on 1, 2, and 3, Ricardo, but I just don't think the idiot driver crossed a threshold that justified zapping him. His heart could have vapor locked.
Sure, he was an idiot in denial, but he could have just been cuffed by a more competent professional officer.
Seems like the video shows three people screwing up to various degrees.
Welcome to the human race.
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John Moosie
climber
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3 people screwing up. Yep.
I picture the guy getting tazed falling into the highway and getting run over. The cop went for the tazor too soon. You can see from the beginning that he is out of patience. His lack of patience endangered that guy. It doesn't matter if the dude is an idiot. The cop is paid to protect idiots from themselves. He should have first ordered the man over to the side of the vehicle away from the highway. He went for the tazor way too soon.
Cop lost his cool. Give him some more training and hopefully he wont get anyone killed. It would have been real ugly if that guy had fallen into the highway and gotten run over.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Wow - you guys crack me up!
So beside the fact that the motorist is a complete smart-ass moron,
should the cop just stand there while the guy walks toward the car
(with his hands obscured/in pocket, BTW), and have faiith that he wasn't
going to take off, let alone spin around and start shooting with a weapon
retrieved from the car? A whole lot of cops have been killed in situations
much less heated than this. You NEVER let someone who is under arrest
saunter back to the car! Put down the peace pipe, you deluded hippies!
Hate to break it to you folks, but driving is a privilege, knott a right.
In case you forgot, when you signed the form for your Driver License,
there's a bit in the knott-so fine print about obeying traffic officers...
This wasn't the sort of situation to let wishful-thinking get in the way of common sense,
at least knott as long as cops are getting killed every other week around the country.
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John Moosie
climber
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Hardman, Watch almost any other cop. They would have ordered him over to the side of the vehicles away from the highway BEFORE telling the guy to turn around. That is just common procedure. He was too casual in controlling the man before he attempted to arrest him. Until he told the man to turn around and put his hands behind his back, the man was obeying. The cop should have used that opportunity to get the man away from the highway.
Then tell him to turn around and put his hands behind his back.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2007 - 03:35pm PT
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Did the cop ever tell him he was under arrest?
I did knott hear him say that.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Good point about the guy being so close to the road/falling into the road.
I watched the video a few more times, and the guy walked straight back,
then turns around, puts his hands in his pocket saying: "What the heck's wrong with you"...
It does knott take a rocket scientist to realize that refusing to sign a ticket will
get you arrested or at least detained (in cuffs), so it's pretty irrelevant whether
he is told "You are under arrest". In fact, it's knott necessary to tell them anything
until they have been detained, as I understand it. As every 15 year old with a learner's
permit knows, if you do knott obey the nice officer, you WILL go to jail.
Uh, hello?
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HighGravity
climber
Here, but will be there next week
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Well, he was good to go on that, but there were a ton of other safety issues the officer had way before the taser came out.
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the_don
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
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There's a lot of talk about what happened right before the guy got tazed. But how did it even get that far?
It's possible the whole situation could have been avoided if the cop had calmly explained to the guy that he had a choice between signing the ticket and being arrested. As it was, it went straight from "Sign the ticket," to "Get out of the car."
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Another good point. Although I seriously doubt the guy would have reacted differently.
Again, every 15 year old with a learner's permit knows what happens if you don't sign
the ticket. I never forgot that little fact. Why should we assume everyone else does?
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John Moosie
climber
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The cop was impatient from the beginning. This guy would have eventually cooperated. But the cop sounded like he was having a bad day and decided he wasn't going to take anymore gruff. If everyone who argued with a cop was arrested, the jails would be overloaded.
The cop shouldn't have to take crap off of people, but that is part of what he is paid for. At the beginning, when the dude said he didn't see another 40 mph sign, this could have been true. He could have been looking the other way. He could have been passing a big rig at the time he passed the sign. Lots of things keep you from seeing signs. Even when you are looking for them.
But the cop was frustrated and that is a bad sign to begin with. He escalated things way too fast and made a few bad decisions which put the dude in danger.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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I thought A. Crowley would be smart enough to know that the side of the freeway
is knott the place to argue the case - that's what the courts are for. And A. Crowley
would certainly be smart enough knott to get all bossy with the cop, as if he's the
one running the show...
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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When faced with a dickhead of a cop, you're a f#cking dumbshit if you don't take the oportunity to just sign the goddamn ticket and leave.
Dumbshits are lucky if being tased is the worst thing that happens to them.
BUT, there is NO excuse for one cop being unable to cuff one dumbshit without having to assault him with a deadly weapon.
The cop wasn't in any reasonable fear of his safety when he tased the fool. He tased him because he was angry at him for not kissing his cop ass, which makes the cop no better (and arguably worse) than the criminals he's charged with rounding up.
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Ya know, LEB is dying to post on this thread right now.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Man I feel sorry for that bozo's wife...what a control-freak!
I watched the video yet again, and when the cop asks for his license and registration,
rather than politely hand it over, he argues and babbles on...
Part of the dialog is obscured by passing traffic, but it's a couple minutes before he
finally hands it over. If he had had it ready when the cop walked up, he might have
gotten off with a warning. I mean, come on, dummy, save the bitching until all hope is lost!
Then when he realizes that he's getting a ticket, he informs the cop:
"first of all, you're gonna tell me why I'm getting a ticket" (which he already did)
and...
"second of all, you're gonna show me where that sign was" (which the cop had explained
was about 1/2 mile back)...
So let's see, do they walk back on the highway 1/2 mile, does he guy get in his SUV and do a U-turn
across the median back to the sign, or do they both get into the patrol car and drive back,
leaving the wife alone in the vehicle?
I mean, seriously!
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Fattrad wrote:
I used to slap leather in South Central L.A.
I'm glad that was South Central and knott Hollywood Blvd...;-)
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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I thought "slapping leather" was something else entirely...
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Ricardo Carlos
Trad climber
Off center, CO.
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Ron
We do not know what the cop saw or heard at the car. I think the guy set the tone in his first sentence.
I know I could not be a cop .
By the way I was ready to close my eyes when the guy's head vaporized by a passing car.
Not obeying cops reminds me of the guy in San Diego many years ago that would not put his gun down.
Started out two cops one guy ended up with fifteen or more cops.
The guy died in the end.
I ran a stop sign on a dirt road by my house. I had a view for miles so no danger of causing an accident.
I did not look closely at the county utility yard across the street.
So when the cop pulled me over top of the hill I had a what up look on my face. The cop starts out saying you have no idea why I pulled you over do you.
Then tells me he saw me at the stop sign.
I say I have been running that sign for eight years now. You don’t give tickets for running stop signs in the middle of nowhere do you.
He cracked up and said yes they were now giving tickets for running stop signs speeding so on.
I said I would not run it again . I still run the two before that one but will never run the one I was ticketed for again.
Attitude is my motto when being pulled over.
I know I an due any time. I was followed in Glenwood Canyon and just before the pull off for Moab weekend before last.
Guilty for speeding but we made great time.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Hey, flunking the attitude test is my life story, but I rarely wear knee pads, if you know what I'm saying.
BTW the UHP just tased another guy today. He was walking S along I-15 N in Bluffdale. Flunked the attitude test. Tased. Brought to hospital. Left with citation.
Hmmm. Wave of the future?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Uh, Weakwrist, you might assume that my vision is so polarized but the fact is that I was teaching cops technical rescue skills when you were crapping in your nappies and then breaking into a big grin, and have maintained friendships with a few of them to this day.
Its easy for you to make uninformed assumptions.
Tell me, you ever been tased? Beaten without cause by a cop?
I've seen both sides.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2007 - 08:43pm PT
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"There are two people you don’t piss off in this world: God and a Highway Patrolman–and not necessarily in that order."
This quote is attributed to Craig Peyer, a former CHP officer now in prison for murdering a young women he pulled over.
http://www.ticketassassin.com/peyer.html
Peyer took dozens of young women there, pulling them over for minor violations. He ordered them down a deserted, isolated dirt road, where he would sometimes flirt with them, cajole them, even lecture them on fine points of vehicle safety. Later, some of the women would testify that Peyer made them uncomfortable and scared.
But Cara fought back.
And Peyer strangled and beat her and threw her off the bridge. Her body was found crumpled there, in the canyon.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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LOL
I was thinking about him when I read the other.
You're a riot Jody. Good on ya.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Having run into an as#@&%e cop in the past is no excuse/reason to assume they are all that way.
Cops run into scores of belligerent idiots a week,
is it ok for them to assume you are another one of them and treat you accordingly?
Talk about a double standard.
And the assertion that the cop should have been able to handle it without using the taser is total conjecture.
I guess he should have gotten into a fist fight with the guy, or tackled him to the ground? What?
The taser has replaced the P-38...it's the new PC way to handle idiots.
I too have had my share of run-ins with LE and a good attitude is the key.
"Yes, sir" or "No, sir"
That's all you need to say.
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Ricardo Carlos
Trad climber
Off center, CO.
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Ron
Humor falls short from needing knee pads.
Hell the last ones I wore was on Pan Am 84ish sh#t it was so long ago I don't remember.
BTW I will be emailing you direct also as I have to go to a wedding over youra ways.....
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Maybe if the guy had one of these bumper stickers, things might have turned out different...
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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cop was way out of line. excessive force for sure. i never sign anything! hardman knott STFU and go play with your iphone
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:49am PT
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Those security guards were pricks...............
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 12:59pm PT
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"You would if I stopped you"
not if you know the people i know
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Dec 10, 2007 - 01:49pm PT
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I've not signed the ticket plenty of times.Cop always shrugs and hands me my copy.
The guys wife and kid were in the car.I bet the kid has a real high opinion of law enforcement now.
Hope that video gets before a jury.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:09pm PT
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Dumbass and a power tripper. Perfect recipe for a good taser show!
Funny wes, I had the same think happen at Sacramento airport. I pulled up to drop someone off. A meter maid came up and started writing me up. Rather than argue it, I pretended I didn't see him and just drove off (I knew he has just started writing it and probably didn't have my complete plate #). I saw him shrug and walk away. Much easier than fighting it in court.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:14pm PT
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Well Jody,how would I know that if I was travelling through California? Back East here I've never had a cop care one way or the other.Of course you like it that way so you can tase me right?
What law is it that states you must sign a traffic citation?
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C-dog
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:44pm PT
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That was a punitive tasing, not an attempt to
subdue a suspect. And the officer's claim
that the man was already being placed under
arrest is patently false. Officer or not, the
guy is an a-hole on a power trip.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:53pm PT
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The way I understand it, when you are stopped, you are technically under arrest.
Signing the ticket means you are being released with the understanding that
you are making a promise to appear. This releases you from custody on the spot.
So if you do knott sign the ticket, you are knott released from custody, no?
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:03pm PT
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then you would find yourself out of a job Judy
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:06pm PT
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http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40500.htm
Notice to Appear
40500. (a) Whenever a person is arrested for any violation of this code not declared to be a felony, or for a violation of an ordinance of a city or county relating to traffic offenses and he or she is not immediately taken before a magistrate, as provided in this chapter, the arresting officer shall prepare in triplicate a written notice to appear in court or before a person authorized to receive a deposit of bail, containing the name and address of the person, the license number of his or her vehicle, if any, the name and address, when available, of the registered owner or lessee of the vehicle, the offense charged and the time and place when and where he or she shall appear. If the arrestee does not have a driver's license or other satisfactory evidence of identity in his or her possession, the officer may require the arrestee to place a right thumbprint, or a left thumbprint or fingerprint if the person has a missing or disfigured right thumb, on the notice to appear. Except for law enforcement purposes relating to the identity of the arrestee, no person or entity may sell, give away, allow the distribution of, include in a database, or create a database with, this print .
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:07pm PT
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I'm knott so sure I'd take the advice of a guy who calls himself "BadInfluence"...
LOL!
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:08pm PT
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ok high and almighty.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:36pm PT
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anyone that uses the phrases "You would if I stopped you" or "try me big shot" has a big ego and is on a power trip. go stroke your PR24 Judy
lol ha ha ha how ghey
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 04:23pm PT
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yup i have problem w/ power driven cops that can't make it to the State enforcement level
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 04:40pm PT
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LOL!!
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 04:49pm PT
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well you sure act like a town or rent o cop. though you are from CA can't ask for much.
come on who uses LOL! when they post ok ok i guess you would find that all over the teen message forum on myspace
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
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Seems like the tazee escalated a simple speeding ticket. Also seems like the GF was lucky not to get tazed herself, being that the cop was in the mood. I've never seen one of those things in action (and hope not to).
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 06:01pm PT
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BadInfluence wrote:
come on who uses LOL! when they post ok ok i guess you would find that all over the teen message forum on myspace
That's precious - considering you write like an uneducated teenager...
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2007 - 06:17pm PT
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Beneath the video there is a link to news interview of the driver and a UHP spokesman. The driver says that he thought the cop had him get out of the vehicle so they could look at the sign. That is how the driver acted after getting out the car, so it is credible. That was not an unreasonable assumption if you listen to the conversation just before the cop asks him to step out of the car.
When the cop tells him to turn around and place his hands behind his back, the driver is completely taken by surprise. He was busy pointing out the sign and doesn't see the cop put down his clipboard as he gets ready to arrest him. Watch this on the video. The driver is so unperceptive that it is funny. What is happening doesn't sink in until the cop says draws his taser and repeats his demand.
But instead of complying, he says "What is wrong with you?" and starts walking away. I think he knew he was being arrested at that point and chose to walk away. The cop asked him turn around a couple of more times and then tased him.
The official UHP procedure gives the cop a choice of letting the driver do and writing "refused to sign" or arresting him so the cop was within his rights to arrest. But a more reasonable cop would have explained that he is not admitting fault by signing the ticket, and that he will be arrested if he does not sign. Or even if the cop wanted to be an a-hole and not give him one more chance to avoid being arrested, he should have explained, you didn't sign the ticket like you were supposed to, so now I am arresting you. This would have given the driver a better chance to understand what was happening.
The way this cop played it, the driver was surprised by what the cop did and probably thought the cop was acting bizarre and irrational. So he tried to walk away.
The cop has his taser drawn and he's asked the driver to comply several times, so from his perspective the driver has left him no choice other then try to put down the taser and physically stop him. The cop was probably looking for any excuse to tase him in the first place, and the driver gave it to him.
If I were this cop's supervisor, I would be more upset at how the cop's lack of communication skills led up to the incident then the incident itself.
Also, Even if the arrest had happened without incident, making an arrest was poor use of police resources. The cop had to bring in backup, taking another cop away from his patrol duties. Then one of them would have to take the drive to the station and book him. Even jailing him will cost the state money.
Was it worth it? Do you think the driver will have more respect or less respect for cops now? Does the video make the public respect cops more or less?
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Dec 10, 2007 - 06:27pm PT
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As a goodie2shoe female, I can only speak from experience...So far my bad experiences with cops--> Far out weighs my good experiences. On several occasions - cops have made me feel very vulnerable.
The driver will have less respect. Next time he gets pulled over he will be silent,and will probably teach his kids to hate and mistrust cops.
LOL, Fet, Dumbass and powertripper.... truth.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 07:10pm PT
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LOL!! did you post from your i phone homo
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Dec 10, 2007 - 07:19pm PT
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Hahahaha! BadInfluence just posted LOL!
Remember this:
"come on who uses LOL! when they post ok ok i guess you would find that all over the teen message forum on myspace"
You have zero cred, dude.
Know we know where you hang out online.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 07:41pm PT
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I feel like I'm in a battle of wits with an unarmed soldier.
Yes, I'm posting from my iPhone (knott "i phone", numb-nuts)
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Dec 10, 2007 - 07:50pm PT
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What's the range of one of those Tasers?
If you ever feel like not going along with the program, it's best to do it from beyond Taser range.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 10, 2007 - 08:17pm PT
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fat, i'm just a bad influence myself i don't have run ins. i can tell the difference between a as#@&%e and a gentlemen. video cop = as#@&%e
shack it's called sarcasm dumbass
judy your meat head age is showing
homoman did you think of that all by yourself. does your iphone now have all your iPhaggot's numbers in it?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 09:02pm PT
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Bad in Fluency - what's with all the talk of "homos" and "ifaggots"?
Do you have some unrequited feelings you need to work out?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Dec 10, 2007 - 10:14pm PT
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I don't think you can order a taser gun and carry it around. In fact, I remember looking into this when we bought the motor home because I wanted one just in case when we went hiking in remote areas. I am fairly certain, I read on the internet where you could not buy them else I would have. I ended up buying a large can of bear spray instead but I wanted a taser gun."
They are legal,We sell them,
but probably knott in NJ. or in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia either.
You are required to "register" it time of sale, and might require a background check.(can't remember of the top of my head)
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 10:29pm PT
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Are any of Crowley's crude comments necessary?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Dec 10, 2007 - 10:34pm PT
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Knott!
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
www.happyninja.com
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Dec 11, 2007 - 12:02am PT
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"However, my wife is only on the computer when I am"
is she allowed to use the computer unchaperoned? hahahaha
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
www.happyninja.com
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Dec 11, 2007 - 12:10am PT
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i'm just tasin' ya bro!
uh, i mean, teasin' ya, bro!
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Mar 11, 2008 - 03:31pm PT
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chump change. its just a cost of doing business.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 11, 2008 - 03:46pm PT
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The spectacle was easily worth $40,000 in entertainment value, IMHO.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2008 - 03:57pm PT
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dirtbag, that was my reaction.
Not to mention the creation of a great training video for police departments across the country.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Mar 11, 2008 - 03:57pm PT
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"My husband trusts me too but I would not want him to casually drop in and read a comment of that nature. It would be exceedingly disrespectful and make him wonder what the hell prompted it."
I found the above amusing... Sounds like a YP, not an MP, Lois... Your Problem. If you're worried that your husband may see something he doesn't then ask him not to lurk. If it's a problem for you, in your relationship or whatever, then don't come here yourself.
Regardless, if he's gonna get bent over things people, out of your control, say on an online forum, then he has a little maturing to do. Sheesh!
And $40k for police brutality, assault, violation of civil rights, etc...? Damn! That's cheap!
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| Messages 1 - 69 of total 69 in this topic |
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