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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 26, 2007 - 11:09pm PT
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Hello All,
As a few know I am on a quest to do the entire John Muir Trail this next summer. But, I am also interested in climbing MT. Rainier as well. Just curious if anyone has done this. I know this is a bit OT but what is not on this forum lately. I am just looking for some suggestions.
Cheers
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:22pm PT
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but you might want to do Shasta first.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:23pm PT
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Did it in '74. Early start on summit day and one foot after the other, does it. Not that technical, if you're doing that much hiking you'll be in!
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:23pm PT
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yeah couple of times.. great mt for the lower 48, shasta or other cascades first.
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beebuh
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:24pm PT
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get in really f*#king good shape.
start at midnight.
don't fall in those big ass cracks.
look out for rockfall.
dont make this your first clime, its not that easy.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:30pm PT
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and do a route other than DC.
Kautz is what I'd recommend.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2007 - 11:50pm PT
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I am in pretty good shape. I hike 2.5 to 14.5 miles per day depending on the day and how I feel. I also MT. Bike on days I do not hike. Looking to get back into the climbing gym this winter too. Just getting back into the grove this week. as it has been a long month here in San Diego. My house is Ok. but all around me is gone. a strange feeling.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 26, 2007 - 11:54pm PT
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I've climbed Rainier 6-8 times and recommend it. Shasta first is a good idea, and you might even climb Lassen before that. Just to get into snow climbing. It's different, fun, you can climb way steep snow right away as long as you pick spots to practice that have good runouts. Like 70-degrees in front of you, and slide to flat 30' behind.
I love the Emmons Glacier on the east side of Rainier -- biggest glacier in the lower 48. Fun, moderate climb, but weather and crevasses can turn it WAY serious in a heartbeat. Think stumblind downward through a maze of death falls in a whiteout. You'll want skills or a guide. A GPS makes running that gauntlet in whiteout far easier than old skool compass and altimiter. You need to practice.
The other biggie is crevasse rescue skills. You probably won't fall in, but... You can get the basics out of a book, and try them out in shorts on the overhanging side of a sunny boulder.
But you need to practice the real-life stuff like cold hands, wet rope, getting your pack off (like escaping the belay) without losing it, and how to deal with the rope cutting two feet into the overhanging snow at the lip of the crevasse.
A class is a good way to acquire and practice those skills. You have to put in the hours or you're fooling yourself. Practicing self-arrest with the ice axe too.
Can't tell you anything about the normal southside route.
Have fun. Take plenty of time. It's a wild environment, and the weather could shut you out. 4-5 days is not too long. Treat it like a mini-expedition. There is some wild ice climbing out of crevasses near Camp Sherman. If you ski, take 'em along and go early in the year.
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Brew Monkey
Big Wall climber
Bend Oregon
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Nov 27, 2007 - 12:03am PT
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I have done the Fuher Finger a couple of times. I think it is a great route that is pretty direct from Paradise Lodge, which is also the starting point for the DC route. The Finger has very few people on it and is still pristine with no guided parties. Set up a high camp on the Wilson Glacier at the base of the Finger. Start at midnight, summit by 9am and you can get back to the lodge the same day. Rainer is a Beautiful mountain with drastic weather changes so be prepared for the worst, I suggest on a route like this to use wands. If you get stuck in a white out up high is unlikey you will be able to reverse the route in a storm with out wands. The hanging serac's are outstanding!
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 12:03am PT
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Thanks DR some good advice. This is nothing new to me I have been climbing rocks since the 80s but climbing Rainier is new so I appreciate the info.
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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Nov 27, 2007 - 12:12am PT
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Slakkey, sounds like you will be in shape. It looks big, plenty of time to stop and take photos...
dont worry about the crowds
theres real glaciers up in them hills, have your skills dialed
Your not trying for a speed record, are ya?
the scenery is good.
just keep going...
have fun, and post a tr.
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beebuh
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 27, 2007 - 12:17am PT
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slappey says "This is nothing new to me I have been climbing rocks since the 80s "
what the f*#k does that mean?
rock climbing and climbing a volcano are very different.
you could trad climb 5.15 and still get clipped fast and easy on shasta or some other low ball cascade.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 12:35am PT
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Beebuh, Thanks for the warning. I take that sort of stuff very seriously. I have climbed Shasta so this sort of climbing is not entirely new to me. but I have never done Rainier. so the reason for the post.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Nov 27, 2007 - 12:44am PT
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slakkey , Ranier is a real mountain, shasta is a baby mountain
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 27, 2007 - 01:11am PT
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Mt. Rainier is the only mountain in the lower 48 that is even close to what you'll find further north in Canada...
...the California volcanoes are not as serious (not to say they aren't serious...).
I've failed twice on Mt. Rainier.
The first time we were a group of 5, me and my buddy Mike were the only experienced guys in the group. Somehow, and I never understood how, Mike ran into a guy at the stone head at Muir Camp and agreed to have him climb with us. I was skeptical... but not only that, I've never known Mike to agree to climb with a complete stranger.
We started up the DC route in two groups of three, one led by me, the other by Mike. We ran into a French encampment of movie makers... who shot us (can't imagine they used the footage)... a some point we were above the Cleaver on the shoulder and in a very high and cold wind. Mike's "friend" decided he couldn't go any further... he would wait for us there! No way he was going to sit there and be in shape to go down with us once we returned. Water was freezing in the bottle I had inside my jacket. He also wasn't going to descend safely alone through the maze of crevasses. So I volunteered to take him down, Mike led on with a team of four.
I get the "friend" down, and crash in my tent... we had been up at 1am and off at 2am. About an hour later Mike comes into camp with his charges. "Did you make the top?"
"No, too windy, but if you had been up there with me we could have gotten them on the summit. As it was, all I could think of was one of them falling and all of us being pulled off..."
The second time Mike and I went up to "settle the score" and get this summit off the tick list. But we thought it would be more sporting to do the 50 Crowded Climb, Liberty Ridge route. We got there and negotiated our way over to the base of the climb. We got to take #11 and #12, there was a huge line waiting to get up to The Thumb... we didn't have that kind of time so we bailed over to the Emmons Glacier route.
That morning the stove malfunctioned so we had luke warm chocolate... and something inedible choked down. A team of Canadians trundled through our camp headed up the route. We got ready and took off. We were climbing strong, 1200'/hr and passed the Canadians and were going great guns.... up to the cloud ceiling. We could spy the cloud finger coming off the sound and nailing the summit... I think my altimeter read something close to 13,000'... but we just didn't want to go up into the clouds, it was white out up there and we had never been on the summit, and we left the wands back home this time.
So we bailed again. We passed all manner of climber coming up, and Mike was getting upset enough to obtain some bad climbing karma ("it's just not fair, we should be up there, it should be a good day,... why are they going to make it..."). We hit the tree line and it was raining. That was the time, lost in my little parka world where the hiking rhythm stimulated the earworm The Girl From Ipanema over and over again... probably the mind trying to get itself into a nice spot. It was slushy melting snow for most of the hike out.
When we got to the car, and got changed, Mike put the key in the ignition to learn that the battery was dead, we'd left the lights on. So one of us had to go out and get someone to jump it... the car we rented couldn't be roll started. Mike went out (what a friend!) and fortunately found a ranger quickly.
You need to have skills to be on glaciers with big crevasses... otherwise you are worse than useless to your partner. The second time we were on the mountain was a week before a guided rope fell because of unstable snow, killing the lead guide. We had unstable snow during our trip and were very watchful. If you don't know snow on a mountain you can be in for some rather unpleasant surprises.
And being in shape is a really, really good idea.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 01:15am PT
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Lucky Pink,
I know all too well the difference between Shasta and Rainier. I have been thinking about this for some time. I know also all too well this is some serious sh#t. so, no need to harp on the issue. I just want the comments of some inside info. on climbing the mountain. There is plenty on the web about this, but I have been here awhile and trust those that I know over the past who Have done this for their insight
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Nov 27, 2007 - 01:20am PT
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no worries slakkey.. in girl talk a baby mountain is a beautiful thing. there is a big difference in scale, weather, glacier conditions, etc between the two mountains.. relax a little huh.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 01:23am PT
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Ed,
You know I take your advice with the most respect. I know this is going to be hard and I know this is going to be difficult but like you I have to try.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 01:25am PT
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Lucky Pink
No Worries here either.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Nov 27, 2007 - 01:30am PT
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you can get by on shasta without real crevasse rescue knowlege but not on Ranier. It has been so warm lately that the routes tend to extend in traverses around the wide open crevasses. This really extends the climb time so daylight and daily weather patterns become very much a bigger issue. there are many beautiful routes. the parks service statistics indicate that most rescues happen around the base of Liberty Ridge, folks just plain falling off. You will love it , it has a very unique beauty. check your email LP
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marky
climber
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Nov 27, 2007 - 01:52am PT
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DR and EH's posts are worth reading a couple of times
I got shut down by Rainier two summers ago taking a stab at LR. On the approach it was blue skies and sunny, and we went to bed. It rained, then snowed (wet snow) for most of the night, and we woke up to whiteout. Back over the glaciers, to the car, and into town for beers. Haven't been back.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 27, 2007 - 02:05am PT
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The Prize... Liberty Ridge... read Jerry's TR of this
the consolation prize... camp on the Emmons Glacier
Canadians at day break on the Emmons Glacier
why does the camera always make things better than they were? Mike at the high point, waiting, praying for a clearing
Climbing mountains requires patience and the willingness to go down. The price of impatience can be large... and the unwillingness to concede lethal.
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marky
climber
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Nov 27, 2007 - 02:12am PT
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kind of an aside, but what's the best way to carry water on Rainier? The bladder-and-hose rig is a nonstarter, obviously, and so too are the collapsible transparent bottles like Platypus and the "Cantene". What does that leave? MSR Dromedaries and the old school 1-liter Nalgene? Shouldn't one have some liquid water in reserves (at least 2 and hopefully 4 ounces) to melt snow with?
in really cold, continuous temps, do climbers have to regularly set the alarm clock to crank the stove before water freezes?
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Nov 27, 2007 - 03:15am PT
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Rainier is great! Having done it a few times, my fav. however was with Tarbuster in the '80's! Liberty, Ptarmigan, Mowich Headwall...They're all cool!
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Nov 27, 2007 - 10:14am PT
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Sounds like you will do just fine with the right pardner. I grew up rockclimbing and always just thought of Rainier as a big pile of choss, snow and ice. While I was correct in that assumption, it was a far bigger pile of choss, snow and ice and way more serious than I realized.
I climbed it in August and it was so cold that day that my 1 liter nalgene water bottle (inside my pack) had froze shut so I couldnt open it. Here is a pic of the Emmons Route, very beautiful, moderate but as DR said, in a whiteout it would be damn dangerous and scary.
Check out cascadeclimbers.com in their TR section for some good stories. Keep in mind that the Emmons is 10,000 feet of vertical more or less...
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Nov 27, 2007 - 10:56am PT
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Rainier is a big, Very big hill. I've failed on it twice and am not all that inclined to go back.
First time drought year in the mid 80's, Bill and I "blow off' the locals advice and head up to do Liberty Ridge, it's supposed to be "out" of condition with a nasty 300' hanging
Wall of ice that was supposed to fall off anytime. We thought they were pussies.....Well after 2 days of wandering around frozen rubble( NO snow) we get near the base of the ridge and it's like being the 7 ball on a bowling alley, Night and day the rocks are crashing all over the place and that 300' wall of ice looks more like a 1000' tall and lurking death. After a day and a half of considering our chances we bail. I lost both big toenails on that little adventure, took years before they started to grow back normally.
Second round a year an a half later, Bill and I Go for it in Heavy Spring conditions( Bring Wands) Leaving the car in a snow storm we wonder around blindly upto Paradise hearing avalanches going off all around us. 2 days of chest deep snow with only a few hours of clearing around 4 in the morning we arrive at camp. In camp are some British Colorguards( Bad ass MF's, One carried my haul bag into the column for me once, I was only carrying the rope and the rack and he met me half way up, after he had already left our haul bag up the 3rd class at the base of the crack on the South Face, he was close to 50 at that time.) who have been waiting out the snow storm for the last 4 days before running out of time and having to leave the mountain. Bill used to teach at Sonora Mountain Warfare.... and new a couple of those hardy lads. They left us with additional Fuel( You burn alot of fuel melting snow to drink) and food. So we start waiting for the storm to cease, Bring a book or some cards watching the little furries scurrying around in "the Bunker" quickly loses it's appeal. after an unknown length of time we decide to go for it, we crawl through chest deep snow over to that Bowl where Willie and his Daughter had perished only a few years before and looking across this thing( Rainiers size will amaze you if you think the Seirras are big. It's like 2 or 3 CA 14's put together, from the bases. It would be like camping with the marmots at the base of Whitney on the tourist hike and everyting in front of you Mt Muir, Whitney and all the way over to Russell is one Hill. It's big.) We both immediately wonder why anyone would ever step out unto this death bowl. Summit chances gone we pickup camp and wonder down the hill, it started snowing again hard, googles would be good( did I mention wands) We wander in chest deep snow again aimlessly downhill with the snow slides and avalanches going off around us in a white out for another 2 days. I'm ready to be left in the snow and die, I don't care anymore, my partner is arguing for me to get up but I'm done. After about an hour of this, we hear some others wandering around comming up towards us( they had wands, brilliant) and Bill somehow got my ass moving down that phucking hill again(Probably 2 or 3 hanfulls of chocalate covered coffee beans). We where only about a half mile from the car but in whiteout conditions you don't know which way your piss is even gonna fall. We struggled to follow the wands (probably only 50' apart) and their tracks but in those conditions we frequently had to back track and circle around to find their wands. We eventually get are sorry asses back to the car and dig the car out and go home with are tails between our legs. I'll stick to to "little" hills and walls in my beloved Sierra's.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Nov 27, 2007 - 11:54am PT
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Do the Emmons glacier route; it won't be as crowded. Further, we had the greatest glissade imaginable coming down. We sat down near the summit, wrapped our legs around each other and blasted off. The ice roostertail from our picks must have been about fifteen feet high. We'd have to stop on flatter areas then begin again; got back to camp lickitty split. We walked out to the car, and I got hit by a kidney stone, so lickitty split to the hospital. I finally passed the sucker somewhere up the Alcan one night. I thought the tip of my weenie was going to blow off with that one.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Nov 27, 2007 - 12:00pm PT
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Woody is right, i think we did 7000 feet of glissading. But even those old kevlar reinforced patagonia pants wore out. But thank god I didnt get a kidney stone.
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Nov 27, 2007 - 01:34pm PT
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The weather can really suck. First time I tried I went with an informal group in late July and we got unlucky with the weather. We attempted the Emmons route, but only got as far as Camp Schurman when a storm blew in. Which is just as well, because among other things, one of the guys had never actually worn crampons nor practiced self-arrest before =:-O
The second time I was successful and went with just one other guy (we'd initially planned on three, but one had to drop out because of an injury). We did the Kautz Glacier in early July with a few days of high pressure. There was some steepish neve and brief ice climbing (AI2, about 40 meters ?) on glacier ice, but most of the rest was your basic glacier travel, rest step, don't let too much slack in the rope, etc. I'd done Shasta three times that year via West Face Gully, Casaval Ridge, and the Whitney Glacier so I felt pretty well prepared.
There were some great views from the approach and camp ..
The head climbing ranger up there keeps a blog with links to permit / weather / conditions info. He also wrote a comprehensive guide to the routes on the mountain.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 27, 2007 - 02:45pm PT
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Shasta has come up a few times, and I'm here to say that it can be more fun, interesting, serious than its usual rep. But you've gotta look beyond Avalanche Gulch (the 'John Muir Route').
The Whitney glacier is the biggest in CA with two icefalls. Unfortunately a little tedious to approach.
North side is the business. Hotlum and Bolam glaciers. Real crevasses to climb down in--climb back out. Couple of 'em you could drop a boxcar into. Steepness too: it's a North Face, right? Two good camping spots on the way up. The Hotlum Ice Headwall is 43 degrees for 800-900 feet. (Measured -- I carried a clinometer around for years to get the gullies right.) French step or front point, depending on density. Tops onto the summit.
Fire that and you're a lot more ready for Rainier.
Then as you're driving north trying to synchronize your attempt with the weather systems, consider a dash up the north side of Hood or Adams. The Adams Glacier especially tumbles down the north face of a 12,000+ footer offering more route finding through serac jumbles than any I found on Rainier -- like a big-talus scramble in crampons.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 27, 2007 - 03:09pm PT
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On top of what everyone else has suggested, leave your travel plans as wide open as you can. Weather on Rainier is key. I've been on top of Rainier a lot and find that giving yourself 4-6 days on the mountain gives you a much better chance for a good window. Plus you get a chance to acclimatize and have a lot more fun. It's an amazing place, take the time to enjoy it.
And if you're new to this sort of thing, the DC or Emmons routes are both excellent routes with tons of people should something go horribly wrong. But be warned they are in fact "dirty trenches" by late in the season.
Baby steps first... Then in a few years you'll be ready for slot jumping on the Upper Carbon.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 11:17pm PT
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Thanks to all for the good advice and the Pics.
No way would I attempt this without some preliminary training or doing a fair amount of research. Everything I do I take the time to research it before doing. I know that there is a good possibility of getting shut out due to weather. No death wish here so, if it was not a go then I would back out.
This is what I like about this forum and what I think is turely good about it. Some good advice some varied opinions and for the most part people who have a common interest. Ok continue to rage on about politics and other BS.
Cheers
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Nov 27, 2007 - 11:29pm PT
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The Hotlum and Bolumn Glaciers on Mt Shasta are excellent and fun Routes, The Muir Route shouldn't be on this thread( Hikers). You can do some brilliant ice bouldering around those glaciers but I've spent one of the coldest days of my life up there( with all the equipment i could muster). Great stuff' but pay attention.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Nov 28, 2007 - 12:46pm PT
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I haven't seen any mention of self arrest skills in this thread. Maybe I overlooked?
You and your two partners need to have your self arrest skills so dialed that you can arrest when sliding on your back, head down, and any other orientation you can think of, including a disorienting, tumbling yard-sale fall. Arrest automatically, without thinking. DIALED.
What, only one partner? Self arrest is even more critical. Crevasse rescue can be immensely more complicated, and can require different preparation and rope arrangement prior to any crevasse event.
I've climbed Rainier via Disappointment Cleaver, Emmons Glacier, Success Cleaver, Kautz Glacier, and Liberty Ridge. Failed on Ptarmigan Ridge due to a 36-hour storm and subsequent avalanche hazard. Failed on a winter attempt after 10 days of storm at Muir. Of those routes, I would recommend Emmons Glacier, Disappointment Cleaver, or Kautz Glacier for someone new to the mountain.
It's a great mountain, peerless in the lower 48. Have fun. Be careful.
Brutus
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ChrisW
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Nov 28, 2007 - 03:53pm PT
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We did Emmons Glacier in 96. Not techically difficult. Roping up with a partner is recommended. And Knowing how to travel with a rope on a glacier is good as while as crevasse rescue. When we did it, there was a trail all the way to the top made by the local guide service. There was no route finding what so ever. Its a good idea to get a very early start the second day so you can get back across the crevasse bridges before the snow gets to soft. We pratically ran up the mountain. This was after spending the whole winter skiing 100+ days between 8,000 and 12,000 feet in colorado. Mt. Rainer has a huge elevation gain compared to other mountains in the lower 48.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Nov 28, 2007 - 05:45pm PT
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Ever hear about the "Birdeaters"? 9 days in a storm no food *, but survived. Yeah, et a bird. Dude sometimes lurks on the 'taco. Fess up mang..
Rainier can play hardball...
*sugar packets
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Nov 28, 2007 - 06:56pm PT
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MT. RAINIER: LIBERTY RIDGE
Another foot of powder snow fell last night. We awake to find a
world of blinding sunlight above a sea of clouds that extends
beyond the curve of the earth. It is bitterly cold. As we emerge
from the tent, blinking in the brightness, we can see that we are
camped at the very summit of Liberty Cap; fifty feet in any
direction the mountain drops off in ice cliffs, rock bands and
steep snow. It's so good to finally find out where we are, after
so many days of storm, even though the calm will not last.
Standing at the highest point, we can look down the west face of
the peak to where a circular rainbow frames the mountain's shadow
on the clouds. Since the stove is still iced and unusable, we head out
into the morning cold without breakfast. The water bottles are frozen shut.
It takes a half hour of work to put on boots and tighten the frozen laces.
Columbia Crest. Whiteout: Ground blizzard and fog. We're blind.
The iced, soaked rope is almost impossible to pull. A thousand
feet down the Emmons Glacier, we pick up a trail of wands leading
down into the clouds, wrong side of the Mountain, but down,
broken crampon, but down. Skirt a crevasse, traverse, winch 50
feet of slack into the kink-frozen rope so I can move again,
and look for the next wand.
Tomorrow we will reach Paradise, 50 miles from the car, out of
food, out of money, with the Mountain shining in the sunlight of
the first clear day in a week. Tomorrow we will hitchike back to
Quesadillas, beer, a hot tub, and a steak dinner. But for now, I
search for a solid snow bridge across the next crevasse, chew a
filthy Starburst, and look for the next wand, down into the cloud
and swirling snow, out of the endless sky.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 28, 2007 - 07:06pm PT
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the thing I love about mountaineering is that it gets even better when the weather sucks... thanks Brutus, BRILLIANT!
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2007 - 10:57pm PT
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Thanks so much for all the replies, and comments. As a few of you know the last 2 years have a bit of a challenge for me. It was on Nov. 22 that was the 2nd aniversery of my wifes passing. Not to mention just with in the last month my house almost burn down. Its amazing. I am so lucky. The challenge of climbing Mt. RainIer is something I have wanted to do for a long time. Life has dealt me a tough deck of cards but, life goes on. It is people like Tarbuster, Werner, Crimpergirl, Happigirl, Mighty Hiker,Jaybro, Nature, Jerry D, Tom Evens, Standing Strong, jstan, Ken Yeager the list could go on forever, but you guys rock. Thank you so much.
I look forward to sending you all my TR on the John Muir Trail, and MT Rainier soon. not to mention a few rock climbing threads now and then.
Thanks
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10b4me
climber
1/2way between Yos and Moab
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Nov 28, 2007 - 11:33pm PT
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1 for 1, July 1, 1982 via the DC
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 29, 2007 - 12:27am PT
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"the thing I love about mountaineering is that it gets even better when the weather sucks"
Heh... only only in retrospect. Holding up what remains of the tent walls with your back in 90mph 15 degree winds in the dark ain't fun when it's happening.
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