Left Side of the Remnant
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Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2007 - 01:48pm PT
Don't know what made me think of that climb but I believe we did it on one of mour first trips to the Valley circa '71 it seemded hard at the time. Anyone else ever done this all but fogotten old Robbins testpiece??

JL
spyork

Social climber
A prison of my own creation
Oct 17, 2007 - 01:52pm PT
Ed led the right side Sunday. Gary went to look at the left side and got eaten alive by the ants! I think one of them commented that the protection looked scarce!

The right side sure was fun. I need to try the left side.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 17, 2007 - 02:40pm PT
Yes, Spyork, Gary and I were cragging around Reed's this weekend, Mr. Smooth lead Chingando and we went over to look at Left when we were playing on Right (Spyork wanted to take a trip up it).

Gary thought the bottom part unprotectable as an undercling to a left side in squeeze... so we thought about a top rope which might be problematic too, as it overhangs a couple of steps.

But it looked very interesting given our time on Gollum, Left and the Tuolumne route around Olmstead canyon called ? (the name escapes me Gary will remember) which is 5.10d...

We must of made a disturbance in the Force on Sunday that John picked up... we were eyeing Reed's Left which was John's first climb in the Valley with Bridwell (yes?), the next day he was on the FA of 10.96... the stuff legends are made of.
WBraun

climber
Oct 17, 2007 - 02:42pm PT
I did it.

Yeah me, I did it.

Big fukin deal.

Just pullin your chain man. It's all good.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 17, 2007 - 03:04pm PT
I climbed it with Josh Moore* about a decade ago. Cool route! I thought it was one step up from gollum left (shorter, though.)


*(used to live on a sailboat @ Berzerkely marina, neighbor had tibetan prayer flags. (anyone know if he's still there?)
Gary Carpenter

climber
SF Bay Area
Oct 17, 2007 - 03:07pm PT
"The Thrill is Gone" 5.10d Olmstead Canyon is the climb Ed is thinking of.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 17, 2007 - 03:10pm PT
"Gary went to look at the left side and got eaten alive by the ants! I think one of them commented that the protection looked scarce!"

Talkative ants...
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2007 - 05:24pm PT
It's been so long ago I can't even picture it now. Love to see a photo of the thing. This goes back to the days when we didn't know sh#t from shinola and everything seemed epic.

JL
Jerry Dodrill

climber
Bodega, CA
Oct 17, 2007 - 05:51pm PT
Largo: still waiting for your account of Bob Locke Memorial Buttess...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 17, 2007 - 06:43pm PT
I did it 20 plus years ago, with, maybe, Keith Guy, Russ Walling, and Billy Russell or a similar ship of fools. It was my lead and I had big cams; so I busted some run out lieback moves the whole way up to the under cling, stabbed the cams in at that vicinity, did the undercling around the corner and got stuffed into the squeeze.

I'm sure Russ remembers it better than I do, if he was actually there…
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 17, 2007 - 06:57pm PT
Or, at least, he remembers it more colorfully!
WBraun

climber
Oct 17, 2007 - 06:59pm PT
So anybody done Moongerms or nightmare continuation lately?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 17, 2007 - 07:05pm PT
Moongerms Werner?
Jeepers, set the bar a little higher why don'cha...
How many ascents total I wonder?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 17, 2007 - 07:12pm PT
Spyork,
I for one tend to suspect the protection assessments uttered by ants.
spyork

Social climber
A prison of my own creation
Oct 17, 2007 - 07:17pm PT
After the ants started talking to me, I refused to lead anything, suspecting my own judgement...
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 18, 2007 - 01:09am PT
Reed's Left has a lot of stories...
...here are two about the same event:



Jim Bridwell Climbing Adventures; A Climber's Passion page 203:

One morning Jim Donini strolled over to my camp site located by the generator. He brought news of a recent arrival I had to meet. John Long was his name and climbing was his game. John was a brash and outspoken with a precocious appetite for the most difficult routes -- of which he had a familiar list. Produced by Peter Haan, the catalog recorded only hard Yosemite routes done in the past two years. John entertained me with his contagious enthusiasm as I inspected the list. Immediately I could see that the record of climbs offered complications for the Yosemite neophyte: Cream, Steppin' Out, Basket Case and other climbs on the scroll were offsized large cracks involving the dreaded 'offwidth' technique, a style of climbing nearly unique to Yosemite. I understood John was from the greater Los Angeles area, a Tahquitz regular and doubtless an excellent free climber.

"Have you done many awful-width cracks?"

"No," he admitted, but blustered on. "But they can't...and I can..."

"Hmmm, uh-huh," I intoned, suspicious of such uninitiated pronouncements. These smooth, featureless fissures were, at best, difficult to protect. Wishing to humble and not to harm, I offered to usher the lad up an easy, though exemplary route: the left side of Reed's Pinnacle. John eagerly agreed and next morning we were tooling down the road toward Reed's in my '56 Ford. As we drove, John extolled his abilities, naming the many test piece climbs he had mastered. I listened as I wheeled the old Ford through the series of turns, knowing that in all probability he would find this route very different fare.

At the base, John announced his desire to lead the first pitch, a chimney of confining dimensions. I thought, Good enough -- it would be hard to fall out due to John's already sturdy stature. Off he charged like a bull at a cape. With a display of power, if not grace, he soon found himself at the belay. I followed using the practiced technique of a Yosemite regular, and quickly arrived at his side.

With little hesitation I picked through the hardware and selected on nut (knowing the necessary size) and two carabiners, then started off. John looked bewildered, but said nothing, perhaps out of respect. I climbed up, clipped and moved past the bolt -- purposely neglecting the rest spot. An interior crack on one side of the main fissure occasionally accepted the chosen nut. But then again, sometimes it didn't. This time it didn't and the nut slid uninhibited and unhindered down to the bolt. John's alarmed voice warned me of the mishap while I moved through the crux section. I replied casually that I was aware of the fallen protection and that it didn't matter. Actually, I had soloed the route several times and felt solid, but certainly didn't want to let on to John and thus ruin the effect of my cool composure.

After dispatching the rest of the pitch, I prepared to belay the lad. He started with robust ease, using his face climbing skills on the large edges that garnished one side of the crack. But the edges vanished at the bolt and the climb became more typical of Yosemite, in a word -- smooth. John attacked the crack with force. His muscles bulged and his veins popped. He neared the polished six-inch-wide vertical crux section with little left but courage. Lactic acid crescendoed as panic replaced what little technique he had. He tried to slump onto the rope for a cheater's rest but I was having none of it and paid out slack in kind. If he made it up, I wanted him to know he had done it on his own. His face flushed with effort, his once powerful arms quivered, but his heart wouldn't quit until the synapse collapsed. Just then I took pity and divulged the secret rest hold he hadn't seen behind his back. John's hand shot to it like a chameleon's tongue. Saved! Air flooded into his lungs in great vacuum-cleaner rushes. After a short rest he swam his way to the top and my congratulations.



John Long from Rock Jocks, Wall Rats, and Hang Dogs page 77

"So what should we climb?" he asked.
"We?"
"You wanna go climbing, don' t you?"

Hell yes, I did, and without thinking about it, I suggested the Left Side of Reed's Pinnacle. I'd never seen Reed's Pinnacle, and didn't know the left side from the right side. I only knew Bud Couch had failed on the left side, and figured if I got that route behind me, I'd have a leg up on Bud and Yosemite.

"Get your stuff," my new friend said, crawling into a tend and tossing out several rucksacks full of gear. When I say the name "Bridwell" on one of the packs, I froze like a deer caught in headlights.

Jim Bridwell -- "The Bird," as we later styled him -- was the biggest name in American climbing, perhaps world rock climbing. He had burst onto the Yosemite scene in much the same way we'd stormed Idyllwild, coming on the heels of a retiring generation of Yosemite greats. That generation was the first to climb the might big walls, inventing the techniques as they went along. These routes thrust American rock climbers ahead of the Europeans, and as these giants slipped off the cutting edge, around 1969, only The Bird kept the art from slipping back into the period of genre painting.

In a manner, a rope ran from Jim back to the very beginnings of the sport -- for he'd climbed with Kor, who had climbed with Robbins, who had climbed with Wilts, who had climbed with Mendenhall, who had climbed with Clyde, and for all I knew, the only thing separating me from Edwin Whymper and the first ascent of the Matterhorn was the half hour before I could rope up with The Bird.

We hitchhiked to Reed's Pinnacle, a 300-foot exfoliating slab leaning against a vertical wall of smooth gray granite. The slab's left side described a soaring crack, beginning with a wide chimney, which I led. The hard climbing in Idlyllwild tended toward steep face routes, so my crack technique was needy, and I tried to bluster by with brute strength. This worked fine for that first pitch, a moderate squeeze job ending atop a small, tight stance beneath a horrific-looking "off-size" crack. It's a terrible thing to cringe below a ghastly crack that soars overhead like your worst enemy, and not know what the devil you're doing. The situation was altogether different for The Bird, who arrived as my stance, flashed that smile again and led off without a word.

Yosemite is the crack-climbing capitol of the world. For reasons Bridwell couldn't explain, soaring razor-cut fissures bisect virtually every face, big and small, sometimes bottom to top. There are techniques for climbing all cracks but none so dreadful and tricky as that necessary for the hateful "off-size."

The Bird chugged fluidly up the second, crux pitch, and was easily 60 feet off the belay before he placed the first piece of protection -- a dinky, wired nut behind a wafer-thin flake. Above, the crack pinched down to about five inches wide, and he slithered effortlessly on. About 30 feed below the next belay, the wired nut fell out, and not a single piece of protection lay between us, a distance of over 80 feet. I hesitated to yell up the dire news, but did. The Bird paused, chuckled, and said, "Relax, kid, I might as well be walking on a sidewalk." When The Bird went to work, the climb didn't have a chance. He waltzed up the last bit of the gruesome crack, set the anchor, and the rope came snug around my waist. My turn.

The trick to these cracks is to keep a prudent pace, resting and spurting in turn, so you climb a series of short pitches instead of one long and grisly one. But on this climb there was no place to rest -- at all. The crack was too big for fists, too small for a shoulder. My knee didn't fit, though I nearly ground my patella off trying to force it inside. My feet were bicycling around and when I'd try to jackknife up a move, I'd slip down two, fiendishly arm-barring, but buttering slowly out. I was sort of swimming inside the crack -- or rather, thrashing like a drowning man -- yanking out on the lip so hard I thought I'd pull the whole damn pinnacle off the wall.

This kind of climb has a cumulative effect that asserts itself suddenly, and I'd battled to within five feet of The Bird when all at once my body felt as if it'd just swallowed about three yards of quick-set cement. According to the old adage, you never learn anything until you're "pumped." I'd either learn in a hurry, or fall and lose face forever.

"Out right," The Bird instructed.

My hand shot out to a knob on the otherwise blank face; I braced, got my knee locked higher, ratcheted up, stretched and at arm's length, grabbed the ledge and floundered onto it, spent.

"Done many off-widths?" The Bird drolled.

"Hundreds," I wheezed. He handed me the rack, and I led up the last pitch, a perfect hand crack.

So began a friendship that would take Jim and me up many big walls together, from the jungles of South America to Borneo and beyond; and it all started on that oily crack at Reed's Pinnacle.
Alex Perry

Trad climber
California
Oct 18, 2007 - 01:22am PT
Ament led first free ascent of Left Side of Remnant in (?)1967. He has told the story here somewhere.

As I remember, he led up no pro through the first off-width, then did the crux under-cling, all solid to the top with one 5.6 or 5.7 move remaining, where excited to see the big bucket at the top a few feet away he hammered in an angle into what he suddenly realized was the only hold, a finger lock. Rather than hammer it out, he placed fingers on either side of the piton and did a lieback to the right, tried not to touch the piton, and didn't need it, but it was almost impossible for the skin not to touch the steel. The move is easy, if you have that finger lock. He honestly reported this tiny infraction, if such a thing was an infraction, and he felt he had done the route. Pratt, if I remember right, showed the route to him. Dalke had trouble following the tough stuff below but easily made the top move after removing the piton.

Robbins then later went up with Price and hung around a long time to do the route, no where as good style as Ament, but made sure not to place a piton in that one hole at the top, whereby (kind of small of them) they claimed the first free ascent. Ament should get credit, full credit, as the hard stuff was led well, only that silly tiny booboo at the top which didn't matter. That's what I remember.

It is here somewhere in the back pages of super topo.
Alex Perry

Trad climber
California
Oct 18, 2007 - 01:27am PT
Ament was solid back then. One day he led crux off-width pitches on both right and left side of Reed with Pratt. He led Crack of Doom with Robbins, other such routes too, such as Ahab. He led Left Side of Slack crux off-width with Higgins.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 18, 2007 - 01:46am PT
"Sounds like Ament captured lighting in a bottle for a Valley season or two."

According to Russ, it's not lightening, but the electric energy generated during the ass clench required for a proper mantle top-out.

The problem w/ the left side of the Remnant is that it's almost always wet during Reed's season. :-(
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 18, 2007 - 01:48am PT
it's not wet yet!
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 18, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
It's not Reed's season yet either (I hope).

(I mean...I always end up sort of tired of Reed's and am longing for the longer routes in the Valley by the time the spring rolls around, so I try not to go there while the Valley is still nice.)
Alex Perry

Trad climber
California
Oct 19, 2007 - 02:39am PT
sheeesh, Melissa. Pat visits a thread about manteling, with some photos, with people looking mostly as though they are actually face climbing and, like, reaching with a hand to the top, and astutely he observes that they don't quite look like the photos are showing mantel problems, a harmless observation that meant no harm. Then everyone else goes off on what a mantel problem is. Then more jump in with arguments about what a proper mantel topout is, and eventually some get offended apparently by this or that, which he had nothing to do with, and heap everything they feel on Pat, who didn't even return to that thread, if I remember. Anyway as Rich Goldstone said, Ament was just about the best at manteling in his day and made an art of it, so he might know what he was talking about, maybe. But you have a memory like an elephant to bring in that old junk that doesn't have anything to do with the Remnant. Maybe I mis-read your intent. Sorry if so. But seems a silly comment.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 19, 2007 - 09:34pm PT
I just saw this...and Alex, I half no idea what have of your post even means. I was just playing off of Sewell's quote in the post above mine, and in that way, my comment seemed on topic enough.

I was recalling a discussion (that may or may not have involved Pat...I don't remember) where I asked why a mantel top out was considered more aesthetic, and Russ made a good-natured joke describing why that involved lighting small cities with the energy released from the butt clench required. I laughed at the visual then and when I've thought of it since. Ha, ha.

I'm sorry to disturb this very serious thread about the Right Side of the Remant (that seemed to be largely about other climbs anyway) with a joke. (Actually, I'm not.) But I honestly wasn't trying to take a swipe at Pat.

Those inspired by the heroic remembrances here who go to try their mettle on this 60? foot testpeice might appreciate my beta though...It tends to be very wet in the winter.
James

climber
A tent in the redwoods
Oct 19, 2007 - 09:42pm PT
funny Melissa.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 19, 2007 - 09:43pm PT
That was a very weird post, alex. Please-ad... I mean, elucidate.


ps I led it in the fall, possiblly right now, in another year. With Josh Moore, still nobody knows of his current whereabouts?
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 19, 2007 - 09:47pm PT
I think it got started by a video posted by Commodious,
folks were making fun of the climber for tossing a foot up to
the top before pressing out a mantel.

Melissa, thanks for the beta, I hope I make use of it.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 19, 2007 - 09:55pm PT
I hope you send in any weather Scuffy. :-)

The Left Side is of Reeds tends to be drier, and I've been told that you can tunnel past the crux too. Bridwell's account of the same story posted upthread is great too.

It was one of the first routes that my bf took me on to teach me how to climb ow's, and as I grunted up to the crux he quoted the story:

"Just then I took pity and divulged the secret rest hold he hadn't seen behind his back. John's hand shot to it like a chameleon's tongue,"

to see if I would do dart for it like a chameleon tongue too. I did. And then I fell.
atchafalaya

climber
California
Oct 19, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
Pat, glad to see you are still posting!

WBraun

climber
Oct 19, 2007 - 10:25pm PT
You guys missed inchworm

Move left, move left some more past Chingondo (how u spell this thing?)

Then came inchworm .......
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 19, 2007 - 10:48pm PT
That's quite a ways left of Chingando, then.
I've been to Arch this century, Joe. I'm so embarrassed.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 19, 2007 - 10:52pm PT
actually Melissa, it's about the Left Side of the Remnant, but mostly other climbs (at least that you can see from the Remnant).

We'll be up there again this weekend on Sunday... a meeting of the VMC, Vicarious Mountain Club...
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 19, 2007 - 11:25pm PT
Sorry, Ed. The Right Side was my own learn-to-chimney proj. for a while. It must be etched in my brain. It's almost always dry.
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
Oct 20, 2007 - 12:05am PT
Roy asked if I was there with him on the Left Side ascent.....

Roy floated it like he usually did. Power, grace, and polished aplomb while pushing a big cam. Keith Guy and Bill Russell both failed on it miserably, even with giant tape jobs and pulling on pro. I took some pointers from Roy and told him to pull the cord out of the way, and then I soloed it in Huraches with no chalk. Ho-man... casual.

















(um.... in reality, it is marked off in my yellow Myers guide, but there is no more information. Looks like something we would do together, but I have ZERO recollection of the route.)
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 20, 2007 - 02:18am PT
Interesting stuff about the Left Side of the Remnant. Yes I believe I did the first free ascent, in 1967, although I was trying to be honest and mentioned my struggle to keep my finger from touching the piton I placed without thinking at the 5.7 top step. So the first ascent is credited to my old pal Royal, strangely. Tar was "pushing a cam?" Does that mean good protection all the way up? Does the cam work on the undercling too? Roy, it almost sounds as though you had only one piece of protection you kept using over and over, sliding it up?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 20, 2007 - 10:47am PT
Hi Pat,

I was hoping Russ would remember more about the LS Remnant than I.

Not to say it isn't a memorable route; as I recall it looked pretty burly. It was the idea of my buddies to do it and why the lead fell to me I can't recall either, so sometimes that influences memory. I think I was ripped on weed too, or at least really pumped up on adrenaline or both.

Vaguely: I had 2 big cams, but as I laybacked the bottom pretty much to the undercling, where I may have swung in to collect myself, I don't think I pushed any cams. At that time, I was mostly doing OW with arm bars, not stacks, so I wasn't comfortable pushing cams anyhow, as an MO.

I remember just blasting the layback mostly unprotected, placing a cam in it somewhere pretty high but at the right time to keep my head cool, then one more for the undercling, I think below the initial apex; so I had good gear where I needed it and I think they were pretty close to each other, just below the undercling.

Even more disconcerting to enlivened reportage is the fact that I have zero recall of the finger lock section, but that probably fell to a more era familiar engagement with thin cracks and small cams.

For me, the feel of the effort is very strong, much more so than the detail. And that feel was of a stimulating, steady go for it, intimidating and burly line.

Good stuff that Left Side Remnant!
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Oct 20, 2007 - 11:15am PT
Hey Jay,

I can get contact info for Josh Moore, assuming it is the same one. His brother lives down the street.

Ken
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 20, 2007 - 12:07pm PT
Ken, yeah, same guy (probably) we stayed with his brother when we did the remnant. Then on the second day, sunday his bro joined us for a leisurely jaunt up Harry Daley.
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Oct 20, 2007 - 12:22pm PT
Jay, I just sent you an email with his number.

Ken
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 20, 2007 - 02:07pm PT
Thanks, Ken! Good vibes to the power of the taco, and those that spend time within.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 20, 2007 - 04:51pm PT
Roy,
I was deep in that initial crack, as I recall. Isn't that a chimney or offwidth? Larry wasn't very good at chimneys or offwidth and was having trouble, I remember.

You wouldn't remember that top move, because it was so easy compared to everything below. That was the silly thing about it all, that I was solid all the way below and then slammed in a piton there in the finger hole one step from the bucket at the top. It seemed the right thing to do at the moment to let Dalke hammer it out, rather than take it out just so I could have that hold. I did not anticipate anyone would care if my fingers were on either side of the piton. I didn't imagine some bearded guy would claim the first free ascent later. That Robbins guy, you just can always trust him to try to find a way to outdo you (even though he and Price were hanging around a bit below, where I didn't). I jest, of course, because Royal is my friend, and really who cares now so far away from those peculiar days.

I actually did another route somewhere around there. I can't even remember exactly, but it seems it might have been at the bottom of the actual Reed Pinnacle part. I get confused, because it's been so long ago, but isn't there a little pinnacle down there along the bottom of Reed's somewhere called the Cookie that is different than the other Cookie formation that is lower down in the Valley and has Twilight Zone? Anyway, if I recall, this little route I'm talking about is on the Reed's Pinnacle wall. It is a short route at the bottom I did one day that seemed hard 5.11. I couldn't do it in climbing shoes but found I could do it in my Hush-Puppies, because they had such good smearing. It was a seam you couldn't get fingers into, and I had to lieback to the left, with my feet on slippery granite to the right. I don't remember what I named it, or if I finally ever did. I had been thinking about a name and then got distracted probably and forgot all about it. The route wasn't more than about 30 feet long.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2007 - 05:36pm PT
There is a 5.11 on the face leading up to the ledge that Chingando starts on... it comes up from the road, essentially... there is no attribution in the Reid's guide, to its left is a 5.9, also unattributed. They are short-ish climbs, and probably not less safe an approach to that ledge than the "normal" approach next to The Tooth 5.10a another Ament & Higgins FA (19?) which has a single bolt high, and problematic pro lower down (not that I've done it, but it is a striking line and I've thought about it a lot).

Over to the east past Reed's Direct is another Ament & Higgins route, Old 5.10 5.10d FA 1975.
Zander

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 20, 2007 - 05:39pm PT
Ed,
Did you take a picture of The Remnent last week. It would be cool to have a photo with the discussion.
Z
Gary Carpenter

climber
SF Bay Area
Oct 20, 2007 - 05:41pm PT
Zander: We'll get one tomorrow.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 20, 2007 - 07:35pm PT
Pat wrote, concerning the lower portion of The Remnant:

"Isn't that a chimney or offwidth?"

Yes it is Pat, to get to the undercling, but I had just the 2 big cams, and I could see the crux was likely the undercling, so I charged up like a raging bull, not with reckless abandon, but with a calculated boldness heading for that position with my gear.

I'd been perfectly comfortable ratcheting up such things in an orthodox straight-in manner, but for the most part I favored whatever technique seemed most perfunctory and cams expanded the option regime in that way; you could opt to fly up on layback and just stuff in the metallic claws!

As I had no prior knowledge concerning the history of your ascent and approached the route without any expectation, it certainly is telling that I kept no special memory, came away with little in the way of regard for the upper finger lock portion of the route. The meat of the matter must indeed hang on the bones below.

Super fun to do some cross generational reportage and side by side note comparison of these "encounter-fissure"...
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 20, 2007 - 07:57pm PT
oh sheez! I don't remeber finger locks or underclings just a horizontal wide section... maybe Josh will answer his phone.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 21, 2007 - 03:59am PT
That "tooth" thing we named "Do Not Touch" (myself, Higgins, and Cam John, circa 1977 or '78, if I recall). It goes up the left (west) side of the south face of the tooth, and at one or possibly two places one could stem over to the main wall, making it easier. Hence, do not touch (the main wall). That's not a hard climb, just fun, maybe easy 5.10, maybe even easier. Some people have told me "Old 5.10" feels more like 5.11 to them. Who knows? The other short route of which I spoke I cannot locate in memory, but it was definitely 5.11, though short. I don't think it ended up at Chingando. I usually remember those climbs well, but for some reason that one eludes me. I do have a photo of it somewhere, but it would take hours to search through all those slides...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:39am PT
Hey Pat,
Could you post up that picture of Do Not Touch?
That has a fabled look to it and is one of my favorite; it appeared in your recent interview yes?
WBraun

climber
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:43am PT
"But it was definitely 5.11, though short."

I think Oli you may be referring to "Old 5.10" just to the left of Lunatic Fringe?
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 21, 2007 - 09:07pm PT


Found a few old B&W pics of the left side of the Remnant.....

The start-before the real pain....


Beginning to breathe hard......


The realization of what we're into is beginning to take hold......


After this shot, I had to drop the camera and actually belay....


Impressive lead. Basically solo.

-
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 21, 2007 - 09:14pm PT
Nice shots Don!
Is that Pat Timson?

Shoot, that ain't the climb I did: I think I was recalling Grack Left...
(kidding, kidding)
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:24pm PT


Mr Tarbaby Sir,

Yes, it's Timson...... S#it, I think it's the left side of the Remnant! I hope it's the LSOTR! Things that far back kind of blend together. Remind me-left side of Reeds somewhere? Can't remember if it's past Chingando or not. I think we did that in '73 or '74 or so.

We were young, strong, and invincible. Even then, we felt some pain, physical and mental, from that climb. At least we had some s#itty hex protection and didn't have to f&#k around with pitons. My hat goes off to the 1st ascenters.

------
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:29pm PT
fantastic pictures mastadon...

we were up there today, and decided to do the Left Side of Reed's instead... we're old and feel pain and know we are not invincible. So we wussed out. (Mr. Smooth had a great lead on p2 of Reed's left. Trip report soon, but my pictures won't be ready 'till Thursday earliest.)
WBraun

climber
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:30pm PT
You wussed out?

Ah man, .... that does it, I'm leaving
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:35pm PT
Now that's a very young Pat Timson in those photos.

He's carrying tube chocks and drilled hexes, which suggests autumn 1974 or so.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 21, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
we wussed out on the Left Side of the Remnant... maybe it was the ants in the tree on the approach up the slab to the beginning. Anyway, a very quick decision was made to go over to Reed's once we figured the only way up was to do what mastadon's pictures show... and we didn't bring a crash pad (actually, I'm not sure any of us own a crash pad).
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:33am PT
A spot's as good as pad... not falling is better than either.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:58am PT
Mastadon,
Actually Pratt and I were walking along the wall to do something together. I think that might have been the day I led both right and left side off-widths of Reed with him. As we strolled by the Left Side of the Remnant he said "Here's a climb to be done some day." I got the mysterious sense he thought it might be tough. I returned a few days later and made the first ascent (and first free ascent, if I dare say so). I seem to recall the undercling was the crux. I can't even remember how I protected that crux, unless I hammered in some big bong. No Friends or cams in use yet in '67. I know I had no pro on that initial crack up to the undercling.

Werner,
The climb I'm speaking about and cannot remember the name or exact location is definitely not Old 5.10. I'm well aware of where and what that route is. I did that route several times, first ascent with Higgins in 1975, then with Gray Ringsby... and I am perfectly familiar with it. Old 5.10 is way east of the little thing I'm trying to recollect. The route I'm talking about is a very shallow inset with a seam in the back for fingertips and goes up into a kind of alcove, if I recall, an alcove maybe even with a tree in it, down near the bottom of the wall somewhere, but quite a distance west of Old 5.10.

P.S., Werner, I like your comment about guns being inferior weapons. I once heard a great martial artist say, "It's so easy to shoot a gun, and (in so many cases) so cowardly." That made me really think at the time (about 1972 or 3, if I recall).
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2007 - 12:40pm PT
Looking at those photos I can sort of remember that roof part being the crux. I'm virtually positive that we top-roped the thing because we were either afraid to lead it at the time, or didn't have the right gear, or both. I seem to remember that the top rope set up was sort of screwy and a fall would have involved a big ass swing.

That's a long time ago. Fun to hear about Pat's effort. That was five or six years before we top roped the thing - pretty advanced for the time. I'm thinking that thing is probably 11a.

JL
Gary Carpenter

climber
SF Bay Area
Oct 22, 2007 - 03:00pm PT
The Remnant Left - Photos 10/21/2007
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 22, 2007 - 03:04pm PT
It looks like the 2nd roof is the hard part but the first one
is where I think the terror lies.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 22, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
I recall top roping the route wayyyy back and shamelessly laybacking for all that I was worth, which was not much, technique wise that long ago. I have some pics buried in the box somewhere. Thanks for posting those photos. Flashback city!
Ura

Big Wall climber
Okinawa
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:32pm PT
That climb was done by Pat Ament in fall 1967. That would have been one of the first 5.11 routes.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 22, 2007 - 05:01pm PT
Thanks John for your spirit and generosity, the latter being one of the marks of the truly great climber.

Yes I did Left Side of Remnant in '67, probably right after the Center Slack. I remember being solid on it, feeling good that day, not even thinking about the first part. I took a few glances at the undercling before trying it, and that seemed to be the crux (as I remember it). Dalke had little experience in chimneys or offwidths (very good at face climbing and other kinds of climbing, though), and also he was being jilted by some thin blonde who was eyeing me, his best friend, instead, so he was a psychological wreck (even though I ignored her), and he had trouble following that first chimney-crack, scraping his knees. I felt for him, but then he'd come back and do some really hard thing in Eldorado or somewhere.

Largo, tell me about that Big Daddy climb at Tahquitz. I'm not sure I'm aware of that one.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 22, 2007 - 09:18pm PT
My recollection is that the rating is 5.10b not 5.11 and that the problem is mostly seriousness due to the difficulty in arranging adequate protection. But then I have not tussled with that one on the sharp end either. Everything flares down or out as I recall.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 23, 2007 - 02:40am PT
Steve, Left Side of Remnant is definitely harder than 5.10b. You're right about leading being more difficult than top-roping. I think John (Largo) is pretty accurate about the possibility of a 5.11a grading, maybe easy 5.11 or possibly 5.10d, but stiff enough for thems days.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:21pm PT
No real argument here. Any top rope rating is pretty irrelevant anyhow. I simply recall doing the route that way long before 5.11 was within my scope but I just checked the Mountain 31/ Ascent comparative category ratings and no Remnant appears. 5.10b could be just another figment of my imagination. Hats off for a stout lead regardless!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
Hah, maybe it was "just" a really, really burly 10B;
Alas, we all know how ratings can go, grain of salt and such!
Use 'em as a guideline and hang on to your hat...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:53pm PT
Whatever the rating, so much of that Valley wide stuff is just plain “physical” to quote Don Reid.

Jaybro up thread mentioned Gollum left, on El Capitan: I also led that one in regular off width style, with Billy Russell seconding (we had a tape deck at the base playing Frank Zappa). On yet another day, Billy lead Twilight Zone (pushing a cam). It's all pretty stiff athletics, anyway you slice it.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:05pm PT
I lead it onsight and the 10b rating seemed pretty accurate, it always looked like it was about to get harder, though.
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:08pm PT
5.9 + with cams..... 10.b on tubes / hexes

fighting grade inflation since 1978
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:16pm PT

Ahab used to be rated 5.10a.

I used to take all my proteges up it, once they started to get overconfident, to see if I could get them to puke. Used to move to the far side of the alcove so I wouldn't get splattered.

Never underestimate Valley 5.10a (old school).

---
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:26pm PT
The key with Ahab is to stay focused on those (wide) handjams where it finally necks down and just don't fall out before you get them!

-fighting ground fall since 1974.
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:33pm PT


Mr Tarbaby Sir,

I always found that the key to Ahab was the size of your feet.

The ability to heel-toe was crucial.....
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:40pm PT
Here is one of Billy Russell's six-inch tube chocks:


But it's mine now: mine, mine, mine.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:42pm PT
Yes Masta,
To mightily ascend Ahab, I applied the heel-toe against opposite foot's in-step: the double foot stacking widget...
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:26pm PT
Call me Ishmael.....or Twinky but RR used to freesolo Ahab in his street shoes or so the legend goes using his famous arm lock (known these days as an armbar) and the White Wail was never heard. But what remains of the Remnant.....?
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:46pm PT

Mr Twinkie Sir,

Go ahead and give 'er a try in street shoes. Let us know how it turns out.

Don't worry, the Remnant remains.

--
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:48pm PT
This is the first I've ever heard of that famous armlock (which
Robbins attributed to Bridwell) being equated to an armbar.
That armlock is what every chicken-wing wishes it could
be.
In Rockcraft there's a Sheridan illustration of Bridwell hanging
on an armlock.
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:50pm PT
The guidebook calls the Remnant 5.10b.
Not to imply that I believe it for a minute.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 23, 2007 - 05:19pm PT
Wow. I just made a big post and did something, and lost everything.

Remnant. I can't say I really should trust my memory at this point, in terms of the grade, but it seems a few people thought it was 5.11a. And now Largo suggesting the same, but I'm fine with a lesser grade if that's what it is actually. I only remember I had my manky Spiders which were good for heel-toe but not much for smearing, in an undercling. I had no Friends or big cams or tube chocks of any kind. I don't recall what I used to protect the undercling, but it was the first gear I got, and right below the undercling somewhere.

Ahab. I found it easy when I did it, because I could get an armlock, as we called it then, with elbow pointed up and palm against the wall with fingers pointing down. There might have been a moment right at the transition between off-width and handjams, but I found a bomber piton placement right there (a baby angle in a side wall crack). Pratt told me he found Ahab to be quite hard for him, because he has small feet and couldn't get good heel-toe action.

Royal's tennis shoes. Those were Tretorn tennis shoes, and they had amazing friction. He started wearing them because his big bunyons hurt too much in regular climbing shoes. Breashears once brought me a pair as a present, and I could climb anything in them I could with regular climbing shoes. In fact, David and I did a bunch of climbs in Eldorado with Tretorns. They weren't like normal "tennis shoes." They were kind of the next step toward Fire and sticky rubber.

I found the old shot of me you asked for, Roy, on Do Not Touch. I've tried to post it, but I can't keep Supertopo open and PhotoBucket at the same time. I am mildly retarded computerwise, I guess. I also found an old lousy shot of the first ascent of Ament's Arete in Camp 4, with Dick Dorworth spotting. He had just set the world's record for speed skiing. I had just eaten a huge spaghetti dinner. I was wearing the colorful psychedelic shirt Bridwell's girl friend Lois made for me.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 23, 2007 - 05:24pm PT
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 23, 2007 - 05:25pm PT
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 05:50pm PT
Cool shots Pat, Thanks!

You are wearing the brown RD's in that color photo?
I used to play tennis in those Tretorn court shoes. I found the Addidas cross country, white leather uppers with 3 green stripes, & gum colored soles, to be better for climbing and they edged well too. (...Then came Scats)

FYI:
I always do my longer posts in a word document first, then copy & paste in the forum window, as I've lost some big posts too...
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 23, 2007 - 07:38pm PT
Cool shots Oli. What's in a number, a crack at any other grade would still be as stout as Bill would have said. I always wondered about your route up the edge near Chingando as it always looked pretty bold from the ground. Any pro at all up there?
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 23, 2007 - 08:05pm PT
A question for Mastadon and Tarbuster:
which way do you face on Ahab?
I've heard of people doing it either way,
and my crude gathering of data suggests
a more even split than I would expect.
I know what Werner would say, I just want
to keep folks talking.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 08:28pm PT
Which way do you face on Ahab?
I can't remember that stuff; whichever way keeps one's carcass from spilling out of the thing.
I'd guess left side in, but I swear, there are climbs I can't remember whether I followed, lead, or on-site solo'd them first time around.
(And don't listen to Lois, it's not from the hippie lettuce).
But because, in general: "I Chose to Climb" and "everything else is just waiting".
And in the end, it is the lifestyle that gets you.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 23, 2007 - 08:29pm PT
The famous picture of Robbins soloing it is left side in.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 23, 2007 - 08:34pm PT
Bridwell by Sheridan, for Royal:
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 23, 2007 - 08:37pm PT
oh my oh my Oli, the picture of you leading The Tooth with Higgins belaying down below... one bolt away up high is all I see for pro these days... my hat's off... bold
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 23, 2007 - 08:43pm PT
Sacherer on the FFA of Ahab
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 23, 2007 - 10:35pm PT

Mr Hartouni Sir,

Incredible shot of Sacherer on Ahab!! Where on earth did you come up with that?

Ahab?? Definitely left side in. I always used to wear Robbins shoes on that ghastly piece of work. Large feet are a dashed convenience, also. I've got some old pictures of that somewhere that I'll see if I can find.

---
spyork

Social climber
A prison of my own creation
Oct 23, 2007 - 11:41pm PT
Great thread! Thanks for the photos and back stories.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:06am PT
What some call "the tooth" was named "Do Not Touch" by us, just in case someone cares. I don't think it was too difficult, surprisingly. It looks pretty elegant, though. It's hard to see in the photo, but maybe seven feet below me (rough visual estimate) is a sling around a horn, probably right at or near the edge. I found a way to place a bolt high up, at the crux move, by hooking a foot on some small horn or something. This held me in to let go with both hands. Up at the top one could bail, I think, easy enough by going left and getting into a chimney or stem, in that crack, and thus the name "Do Not Touch" (do not go over to the left stuff beyond the arete). I suppose it's kind of a contrived route. A much harder route I did earlier was Limbo Ledge, with some dicey face moves with groundfall potential (if my memory serves me well). Has anyone done the West Face of Rixon's? Not too hard, but I did the first free ascent of that one too, circa 1970 (I'd have to check the guide or my journal, for sure on the date). There's a nice crack on the fifth pitch. That's a fun, aesthetic climb.

Roy, I can't tell by the photo if those are RDs or Spiders. I was using both during those days, probably RDs, as you astutely note. I've got another shot of me finishing this boulder problem, with right hand reaching to the top. That might show more, but I haven't got that one into the computer yet. I think I have it on disk...

Ahab. Definitely left side in. The general rule was that if the rock slanted less than vertical, you wanted your backside resting on the slant, for maximum friction, rather than trying to lie on your stomach on the slant. A good example is East Chimney of Rixon's. You need to be right side in, with back on the main wall, as opposed to left side in with stomach against the wall. I did this latter route (Rixon's East Chimney, Yosemite's first 5.10) about 6 times, always difficult. On one of those was where my friend Higgins was beginning to cut his teeth on off-width (on East Rixon's with me), and he soon became a master of off-widths right along with his mastery of face climbing. Every memory of climbing with Tom is a good one. He always makes you laugh.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:21am PT
Yes, that's a good insight for Ahab, Kevin. I remember having my left leg up high, nearly level with my left shoulder, at times on that first chimney, though I also remember as you get higher you bring the leg back down again and focus on heel-toe. Can a person put a big Friend in there now? I remember having no pro at all until the crack pinched down.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:36am PT
Not my picture, but one of the two that I know of him climbing, both are in Chris Jones' history from which I scanned it...that photo by Tony Qamar
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:37am PT
I don't remember getting a big cam for the meat of the first portion of Ahab. I think it was too wide; isn't it like 10 inches? I think we just had to keep it together until it necked down.

There might have been something pretty low down and out of range, but enough to get you going and give you a feeling that if you didn't like what was happening up in it, one might be able to slither back down into the safe zone.

Definitely some pretty serious commitment regardless and you are for sure hung out during the interesting stuff.

'Only did it once 20 years back, I don't even remember a second wide section, you guys really have the details down, which is pretty fun.

Pat, that is an excellent verbal description of how to play a wide crack when it leans (post #100). I was going to attempt to say something similar, but you got all the descriptive mechanics just right.
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 24, 2007 - 09:58am PT
Don't know if this picture will work-it's from a different site then I normally use.

Cathy (yes, she was Cathy before she became “Catherine”) Freer starting up Capt Ahab in 1972. Note the shoes-RD’s (good God!), hammer (for pounding in pitons that she didn’t have and wouldn’t have worked where she needed them anyway), and creative way she’s tied into the rope. Old School.

She was belayed by Del Young. Don’t know if anyone remembers him-originally a Washingtonian as was Cathy.


http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/517/medium/Catherine-_Ahab.jpg

Guess the picture didn't work.....

---
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 24, 2007 - 01:29pm PT
I got your back mastadon,
You're really pulling out some gems here:



Kevin, that was an interesting description of getting all sideways in the thing.
I recall doing the foot stacks, at least for the initial portion, kept my orientation more vertical.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:01pm PT
Ole Captain Ahab was mighty popular with the ladies. Bev Johnson used to love that route and would say that if she could get half her ass in there then she was rock solid. Power from the waist down no doubt! That shot of Catherine is priceless. Both those gals were good in the wide stuff and outstanding climbers.
As I recall, there was a fixed bong sideways up in the narrowing section up high for a while in the early 70's but those goodies were pretty transient even freshly placed. I sure never trusted them to hold squat.
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:01pm PT

Thank you Mr Tarbaby Sir. How did you fix that??

You ain't seen nothin' yet. I have literally thousands of pictures and slides that I took in the 70's and 80's. You seem to be fond of posting up that one I took at Tenaya of you and the rest of the crew in drag....


----
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:08pm PT
Would love to see more of your stuff Don.
Catherine looks so young there, what a strong woman!
The B&W of Timson upthread is great.

FYI:
I just went to your link, right-clicked on your photo, saved it on my hard drive, doctored it up a tad in Photoshop and up-loaded into my photo bucket.

Shazam!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:13pm PT
And not to get all nitpicky,
Yet, as I am a bit of a boot guy (nerd),
It looks to me like Catherine is running the retrofit EB's on Ahab, with leather patches on the blue cotton ankle portion.
You can just make out the tan leather up by the toe.
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 24, 2007 - 02:16pm PT

You very well may be correct (about the shoes).

I'm at work right now and couldn't remember my photobucket password.

 
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 24, 2007 - 03:03pm PT
No offense to Rene, but RD's were always at the bottom end of the performance list below PA's and RR's. I never knew anybody that liked them.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Oct 24, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
You can get a 6-7" cam in Ahab a few feet back from the lip at head level while standing on the spike before starting the initial chimney and push it a ways. A 6 Friend works great, a old #5 green camalot is tipped out right away and can't be pushed...but it will hold a fall, it's been tested...recently.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 25, 2007 - 12:13am PT
Duuudz, Big Duuudz. Or maybe one of these goodies...
yo

climber
The Eye of the Snail
Oct 25, 2007 - 12:20am PT
This thread makes me want to throw up.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Oct 25, 2007 - 12:43am PT
Raydog

Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
Oct 25, 2007 - 12:46am PT
RE:
" This thread makes me want to throw up."

me too, it's sick

(great pics tho)
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 25, 2007 - 01:18am PT
Steve,
Both John Gill and I really liked RDs for a long time. I used them a lot in the Valley and found they edged very well and were decent in off-width. I actually liked Spiders better, because they are/were stiffer, for the heel-toe stuff, but I did some pretty hard bouldering in Camp 4 on tiny footholds in RDs. They were all the rage in the east for a time. I think Rich Goldstone may have gotten me hooked on them way back in 1965 or '66. In my opinion and experience they were vastly superior to PA's. I hated PA's because you couldn't edge on anything. They would simply roll off. But they (PA's) weren't bad for smearing.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 25, 2007 - 11:25am PT
I really wanted to buy a pair because they were so beautifully made but they just never caught on in Tucson and I happily edged away in my Robbins boots until Ellis Bringham's Ego Boosters came along and contact feel became the driving criteria for footwear. The lone exception was a pair of Masters made by the House of Hawkins in England. I bought them in Boulder about 1973 and loved them to death. Still my sentimental favorite and designed by Ron Fawcett. The thinnest toe profile imaginable seemed to always fit easily where my fingers would.

Jaybro- Your Fren iz so Beeeeeg!! Who says you can't protect Texas Flake? LOL
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 25, 2007 - 05:09pm PT
PAs and RDs had comparable stiffness and used the same rubber.
They fit differently, the RDs being narrower in the toe.
Sounds like Pat must have had an RD foot shape.
I could edge on holds I could barely see in my PAs. I have never
used a shoe that beat them at edging.
chappy

Social climber
ventura
Oct 26, 2007 - 02:32am PT
Here is a picture of me on Ahab using some classic off size technique. I used RDs in my early days. They edged great but the rubber was pretty slick...
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 26, 2007 - 02:45am PT
I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind, I guess. I said PA's rolled off edges. Not so. I was momentarily confusing PA's with those soft things that had the bluish-white tops that were all the rage for a short time. My brain must be tired, because I can't even think of the name of those at the moment. Someone help me. You all know what shoe I'm talking about.

One of the best shoes I ever used were Patrick Edlinger's brand. When I was in England, he somehow got word I was looking for his shoe, and the next thing I knew someone brought me a gift of a pair, from Patrick. In Steve's words, I loved them to death. They were great.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 26, 2007 - 11:05am PT
Nice straight in shot Mark!

EB's Pat?
mastadon

Trad climber
Tahoe
Oct 26, 2007 - 12:01pm PT

Nice picture Mark. Makes my palms sweat just looking at it.

RD's had soles that seemed like they were made of teflon. They were narrow and hurt a lot to make up for it.
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 27, 2007 - 01:29am PT
Yeah, EBs.

There were two kinds of RDs. The original ones were really good. I think they sold out pretty quick. A few of us were lucky to get a pair. Then came another much more mainstream release (more widely distributed) of supposedly the same shoe, but it was not at all as good, harder and more slippery rubber. I don't know why they changed. Perhaps the rubber business was a bit of a random thing, or such, varying greatly from run to run. Who knows? Maybe they tried a different rubber, thinking it wouldn't make that much difference. But those who got the second version hated them and couldn't understand why I and others liked them (not knowing we had used a very different earlier version).
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 27, 2007 - 01:34am PT
I led Ahab the first time I did it, in 1967, and didn't have trouble. Then a while later I followed it one day with Peter Haan. He was in remarkable shape and went up it like nothing. He is a pretty solid and muscular guy and, I'm sure, didn't fit in snugly the way some of us thinner guys (back then) did. So it might well have been a grade harder for him, but he went up it as though he were on some play thing. When he soloed the Salathe Wall, he free climbed the last crux crack (I think they call it the Pratt Crack?). That would have been a pretty significant lead, solo self-belayed, back then. Peter and I then walked up along the base of El Cap and did Peter Pan, some crack up there that seemed not the easiest thing...
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 27, 2007 - 01:35am PT
Out of curiousity, what did Bob Kamps climb in once he left a welted boot for something more modern?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Oct 27, 2007 - 10:14am PT
Kamps, in the late 70's would boulder at Stony Point in a shoe I'd never seen before or since, a PA sort of thing, blue with some red accents. Someone, maybe scuffy b, may have mentioned the brand here on the forum.
scuffy b

climber
The deck above the 5
Oct 29, 2007 - 12:42pm PT
Yeah, that thing was the BB. Came from Galibier, concurrent with
RD and PA. It was way wider than a PA (which came in two widths,
gold stitching for narrow, black stitching for not so narrow)
scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
Mar 29, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
I was poking around there yesterday...
the start, which I had thought looked pretty scary,
turns out to be very much like Big Grunt (Woodson) but not so many
OW moves before getting into the squeeze.
Also, you can chimney on over to the right side at that point.

The upper part is dripping these days.
PellucidWombat

Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 21, 2011 - 10:22pm PT
Fresh pictures. I suspected I was not climbing it the 'proper' way, so I'll need to go back and play around in the lower squeeze. The swing from the TR isn't that bad as long as you thread the rope behind the lower part of the flake to start. There's nothing to hit and you can tension back over if you don't do the route clean.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 21, 2011 - 10:38pm PT
topical wide bump
PellucidWombat

Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 20, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
I went back last weekend and climbed the lower section properly. It's pretty fun figuring out how to do the first bit! It seemed to me that the crux of the route was exiting the squeeze and re-establishing yourself in a lieback or in the hand-stack section above as I struggled there for some time and took a little spill at one point (my bad). Seeing the video of myself, I can see that I also need to work on my footwork :-)

[Click to View YouTube Video]

By the way, this way is definitely the way to lead it. You can protect the entry with a big bro and you could protect the exit from the squeeze with a #5 or #6 C4. Much better than the burly lieback with no pro!
PellucidWombat

Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 20, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
Pulling out of the squeeze the crack is too wide to hand-stack until you can get your hips above that little 'roof' so I needed to do a combination of insecure armbars and side-pulls as I leaned my torso around the constriction and got my hips up, and then a lieback to get up the final bit until I could throw a leg in there. It was still just a little too wide for good hand stacks for a few more moves after that but at least you've got a semi-secure leg in there!

It's funny but the topo lists the roof higher up as the 5.10b crux. Perhaps it is from an endurance standpoint but if from a technical standpoint I felt like the crux for the entire route was escaping the squeeze.

Fortunately despite the seriousness of the route, the Tenaya Lake FWA had a walk off descent :-)
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 20, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
at around 1:45 your harness/knot attachment is an issue, a swami is nice because the knot can be moved around, and your not falling, anyway...

if you liked that you should do Gollum, Left Side which is a bit easier...

good show!

(I thought the crux was the ant tree you had to go around to get to the thing, repelled my last soiree there)
PellucidWombat

Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 20, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
Yeah, the knot got pretty caught there and I was wishing I had tied it in a longer loop! Now I know for next time. I kept blowing out my feet as I tried to push my way through it and ended up more tired than necessary since I couldn't get my hips in as early. My climbing harness is slowly turning into a swami on its own as the rear leg loop stirrups have worn away :-)

The ants were really biting this day so we kept the belay further away from the route.

Gollum, Left is awesome! More intimidating since you're much higher off the ground but that crux definitely seemed easier. Worth the effort to top rope (if you're a sissy like me) but it looks like it protects well with a #6 cam. Maybe I can muster the nerve to give leading it a shot this Fall.
Willoughby

Social climber
Truckee, CA
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:34am PT
Wyde bump!!
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Feb 21, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
Thanks for posting that video.
Maybe I'll sound like a broken record, but...
It looks like that little roof turns the squeeze chimney into a perfect
arm bar crack, and you're unaware of your good fortune.
I think, really, when you're in a beautiful square cut corner like that,
stacks are your best option a small percentage of the time.
PellucidWombat

Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 27, 2012 - 08:58pm PT
I've finally been starting to see the light, I think. When I did round 2 on Chingando I didn't stack my hands. I didn't even notice where that part was supposed to be, so I guess I didn't really miss doing it :-)

[Edit: I think maybe part of it had to do with the fact that it was easier to replace or slide cams in front of me while arm-barring.]
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 27, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
yup. I didn't stack on LSOTR or Chingando. .... wonder if the blood and puss is washed away yet?
PellucidWombat

Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 29, 2012 - 02:15am PT
Maybe the blood explains the strong streak of lichen emanating out from the crux of the LSOTR? Good fluids!
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Mar 14, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
I went up on this the other day and didn't do so hot.
My number one piece of advice is Don't Get Your Knee Stuck, even if it's
just for a little while, at least not if you do it repeatedly.

The climb is really, really good, though.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 14, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
Was it the formerly Karbunkled knee?
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Mar 14, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
No, it was the other one.
The carbuncle was unrelated to any stuck knee shenanigans. I got a staph
infection which blew up a little scrape. I haven't had any problems since
that time.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 5, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
Watched Pellucid video again.
If lead - there obvious placements in the bottom for #9 or to test Merlin8. Short approach wide girls/boys! you need #4 or two to protect rattle fist crux above
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