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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 7, 2007 - 12:55am PT
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A classic adventure by the father of hammerless aid from Mountain 33. Pity that he left early on Trisul. This account inspired me to step out there myself! Edit- the ascent was completed in July 1973 not 1974. All the more impressive with no half size Stoppers or wired hexes on the rack!
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Hey Steve, thanks for posting these great articles.
When I was an adolescent, I was so psyched on climbing and I ate up every word i could read on it, you keep taking me back to that time by posting these classic articles from those days, the ones that were really inspiring.
Are you going to make an appearance at the Facelift/Sushifest? It would be great to see you.
Peter
ps. I did check out the story of those monks. Totally cool thanks.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2007 - 10:23am PT
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Peter- I can't make the Facelift this year but should be down in the Valley once the rains set in up my way. Glad you are stoked about the Marathon Monks of Mt. Hiei. I thought of you immediately since we share a movement aesthetic.
Dave Anderson was also a gem whose warm smile and antics have long been missed by those of us that knew him. One gal in Tucson thought that he was a national treasure...or cute...or something.
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Wish he'd said a tad more on the expando pitch. Equalized nuts for the first piece, yipe! The rest of the pitch was a "romp"?????
If I got my details right, Coonyard led that pitch on the FA, which was funny because Frost was the nailer and YC was the grovelling specialist. So of course Frost ended up on the Dogleg with one wood block for the 100' or whatever it is. Went up about 12 feet, got yeller, put his block in and then ran it to the chains. Which of course there were none.
I'm sure the story was exaggerated when I heard it. All them dads could do every sort of climbing.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Thanks Steve.
A real blast from the past. I remember that the world would be put on hold in '74 whenever I got a new issue of Mountain.
I would pour over it endlessly, and one of the most inspiring articles was the one above which prompted me to do a whole series of hammerless wall solos.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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"metal softly joined with rock" Nice way to put it.
Thanks Steve! I had heard vaguely of this climb, but somehow missed ever seeing this issue of Mountain. Or knowing the date. I did know from Chouinard that he and Bruce had done a close to clean ascent of the Nose, which was way impressive. Now I see that this climb was a month before my hammerless ascent of the Regular Route on Half Dome, which I always thought was the first clean grade VI. Guess I was wrong.
Seems like we were playing the same clean game. Bruce mentions clipping a pin in the expando pitch. He doesn't say whether he used other fixed gear. But he does talk twice about building totally clean and omnidirectional anchors. Ken Wilson's note at the end says "he relied almost entirely on nuts for the aid climbing."
On Half Dome we clipped one fixed pin for aid -- Galen did -- in the Zig-Zags. I couldn't believe he did it. Didn't even know it had happened until I jugged up to it. I was so pissed. We had been really careful to be squeaky clean up to there. Didn't touch any of the fixed pins (though we used the bolt ladders). We built every one of our anchors entirely of nuts. Clean-aided around every fixed pin. And then Galen goes and clips a fixed pin without even giving Dennis or I a chance to clean-aid around it. Tainted our ascent. Aargh!
But then Galen's article for National Geographic was the reason we were there, and it also provided the publicity leverage that helped our climb to slam-dunk the clean climbing revolution.
Interesting that Bruce mentions as strategy choosing a climb where "there was no need for special nuts smaller than the No. 1 Stoppers and Copper-heads that we had." On Half Dome, Galen had already chosen the climb for his article. Dennis and I were the clean enthusiasts, but we had no say in picking the climb. We had pitch # 22 to deal with, the old A3 pitch. Thin shallow nailing. But we also had help. Prototypes of Frost's ingenious Crack'n Ups, which looked like hooks -- litle upside-down anchor-shaped things with a nut taper ground on both ends. Dennis led it beautifully; his main difficulty was reaching past all the fixed knifeblades and RURPs to find an open piece of crack where he could place them.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nice remembrance, Doug.
I remember when you guys were up there. Of course it was a big deal and having it published by Galen in National Geographic made it very important in the general adoption of clean climbing.
But I also remember thinking at the time it was pretty natural to do all clean ascents and that the regular route on Half Dome was probably as good as any to try an all clean ascent on a really long route--it would just take longer to figure the thin aid pitches and multiple directional belays. But that was the observation of a free climber-—we climbed much shorter free routes all clean but I used a mix of nuts and pins walls I did at the time.
What was your sense while on the route? Was it hard to get it to work or just time consuming?
Roger
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TYeary
Mountain climber
Calif.
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Steve,
Perhaps you know, didn't Bruce also make an ascent of the East Ridge of Alpamayo in the Blanca of Peru? I have lusted after that line but never had the stones to get on it. If you've seen you'll know why!
Tony
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2007 - 10:22am PT
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Superchicken had a very understated career but did a lot of inspired climbing! You are hardly the first to come under Alpamayo's spell. One Italian climber called it "the most beautiful mountain in the world."
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Sure do love reading these classic accounts of great climbs! Does anybody ever even climb this route any more? I don't recall ever seeing nor hearing of an ascent in the last ten years. Is the route any good?
What a proud ascent though, eh? Buddy hitchhikes there in the heat of summer, and sends it mostly clean. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, it sounds like he used at least one if not a few fixed pins on the expando traverse?
Doug, thanks for writing about that National Geographic article. That article was very formative in me wanting to climb big walls, though your article on the Camp 4 scene is possibly the best ever written, the one describing the naked bodies and canted wine bottles. Someone ought to post that one up here.
I appreciate you describing exactly how you managed a so-called clean ascent, because I have always wondered about these things. So many routes on El Cap that have had claimed clean ascents would be totally impossible without fixed pins and fixed heads, and therefore the clean ascent claims have always seemed ludicrous to me. Many El Cap belays rely solely on bolts - building a clean anchor would be impossible unless you did it in the middle of the pitch. It sounds like you did achieve your goal, except for the one minor transgression, and I appreciate your confession. It is good to read about people searching around between the fixed RURPs and heads to try to find a clean placement.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2007 - 11:47am PT
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The language gets a bit muddled historically when you come to the concept of clean vs. hammerless. I propose a new term to clarify things a bit. Clean means that no hammer was employed by the leader to set or enhance any placement. Hammerless represents clean climbing taken to a higher level of commitment and, consequently, adventure. Climbing a route without hammering any placement or using any non-drilled fixed placements(pitons,heads,etc) should rise to the level of spotless. Another layer of challenge to aspire to in clean climbing. Clean and spotless! DR?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Hi Roger,
A pleasure to mix it up with you again, even virtually.
I also remember thinking at the time it was pretty natural to do all clean ascents and that the regular route on Half Dome was probably as good as any to try an all clean ascent on a really long route
I totally agree that the Regular Route was the best bet for an all clean -- er, spotless -- ascent. And it turned out to be. I was thrilled to be in the Valley in June to honor the 50th Anniversary of the FA, where all three of those guys told stories and showed slides. Jerry Gallwas made one of the best comments: "There was never any doubt in my mind we would make it." That's exactly how we felt about climbing it clean.
Hennek and I knew we could do it. We'd been climbing hammerless on nearly everything we had done for years, including FAs. Galen wasn't as sure, but just because he hadn't been focusing on that game and honing his skills. So he asked that we put a hammer and pins at the bottom of the haul bag, more as a career backup than anything. He needed to bag his first big National Geographic assignment.
Dennis and I were so certain that we tossed out the iron. We really wanted to follow Messner's ideal about not "carrying your courage in your rucksack" which loomed hugely over the climbing world at the time. Kind of interesting, because he was referring to never using bolts, and it was clear to us in the Valley that never, ever bolting was a "nice try" kind of idea that related well to the Alps but just flat didn't apply to our often truly crackless terrain. But it was easy for us to take the inspiration from Messner and apply it to leaving behind the hammer. We knew we could do that, and it wasn't even that hard. Three days on the wall were more to slow down for photography than extra time going clean. The only pitch where cleanliness slowed us down was reaching between fixed iron on that "old A3."
Speaking of bolts, it didn't occur to us to even think of it as a taint on our clean ascent to clip up the bolt ladders, even though that was the only iron we touched.
We deliberately went out of our way not to touch any fixed iron and build all-nut anchors, to prove the clean point. With the publicity leverage National Geographic gave to it, making that point was a huge success. I can't count the hundreds of climbers over the decades since who have come to me to say that they were inspired by that climb.
But day by day since then I use what's there. If a fixed pin appears, I clip it or build it into my anchor. The purpose of pro is to be safe, and anything fixed is not damaging the rock any further if I clip it.
So when I do the Regular Route on Half Dome again, I won't bother doing it as squeaky clean as we did then. The point has been made, and in the Valley remnants of the Iron Age are eveywhere. In fact, I'll probably take a hammer next time, just for route maintenance purposes to tighten FPs used daily by climbers who no longer have a clue how to tell if a fixed pin is any good.
Steve, I like that we're clarifying here what clean and hammerless really mean. Here I've used "squeaky" clean to honor your idea while still sidestepping the definitions. Pondering your ideas. I'll get back to you.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Bravo. Nice comments Doug.
When I read Pete's post it occurred to me that what we were trying to do in the 70s with all clean ascents has become more complicated to describe today, as Steve and Doug have both commented on. I certainly second Doug's position that clipping bolts was 'allowed' on all clean ascents in the middle 1970s. I think that what has changed is that at that time, bolts were pretty much only used on blank sections and the arguments were about how much blank rock could you bolt and still call it a route. Now there is an added dimension that bolts show up willy nilly on belays, next to cracks, for comfort, for sport, for rescues, etc. We didn't have to put up with such complications very often.
There was another element about 'natural' protection that was focused only on not creating pin scars--in which case fixed pins were okay. But this meant carrying a hammer to reset them which in turn meant replacing them. It also meant leaving gear. Doug and Dennis stayed away from this gray area since it did not make their point.
I don't know what Galen's motivation for clipping a pin on the zigzags would have been. Maybe Doug should refer to it as the Warren solidarity clip--sort of like a purposeful mistake being woven into fine Persian rugs so as not to offend God's right to perfection.
All the best, Roger
PS: Where is Dennis these days?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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It's nearly impossible to get modern climbers to understand how we played the clean climbing game with only passive pro, because the world changed forever a scant five years later when the first Friends came out from under Ray Jardine's coat. It's not really their fault. Why not pull the trigger of a cam as soon as the pro gets a bit dicey? I do.
The ease of climbing clean took such a profound leap in 1978 that everything before that appears as though shrouded behind a veil. I have the same trouble trying to explain how well we backcountry skied on skinny tele skis driven by leather boots. From a modern fat-board, plastic-boot perspective, how can they relate? How anyone would physically do those things seems so mysterious as to cast doubt on the actual accomplishments of our generation.
Climb a grade VI with neither a hammer nor a rack of cams? Ski 45-degree gullies on nordic-looking toothpicks?
Easier not to think about something so baffling. The ultimate value of historical threads such as this may just be to shine some glimmers of light on how we crawled out of the Iron Age.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Steve I disagree with your terms.
To me "Clean" means using only nuts and fixed gear. I suppose that a tapping tool is OK for cleaning only.
"Hammerless" takes it a step farther. No hammer even for cleaning (even "in the bottom of the pack").
Its a further level of committment just as third classing to fifth classing.
The higher level YET that Doug refers to is "Hammerless, with no hammered anchors".
Doug, is it OK to use fixed nuts?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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what Galen's motivation for clipping a pin on the zigzags would have been
I don't think he did it on purpose, more like his mind was elsewhere. Probably on the next photo op. Reflecting back, I realize that was probably one of the few pitches he led. He was always under glass, as it were, behind the camera. Dennis and I swapped leads.
the Warren solidarity clip--sort of like a purposeful mistake being woven into fine Persian rugs so as not to offend God's right to perfection.
Nice description. I've been writing lately about those two on the South Face of Half Dome, drilling endless lines of Bat-hook placements.
It reminds me of the writer Jim Harrison saying that when he goes to a strip club he likes to look for the imperfections in the beautiful girls...
Dennis lives in Ventura, after a long stretch in Hawaii. He's a building contractor. A bunch of us went down there for his 60th birthday, including TM, Lauria, Frost. The Patagonia art department made a wall-sized blowup of him on the cover of National Geographic.
It was his birthday, but as I left he gave me a machine nut he actually picked up along the tracks of the Snowdon Railway in north Wales, which is where legend has it that the first machine nuts began to replace a pocket full of pebbles for clean pro. I put it on a sling-length chunk of hemp rope and hung it over my desk.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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The ghastly thing about considering a solo of Sentinel W. Face is thrutching up those Dog Leg cracks, which are probably 10A and awkward whith the good jams way in the back of the crack - simple if you're in top shape and have a running belay, hellacious if you're roped soloing with the old methods.
DR's point is well taken as well - after pitons (basically 'after '71) and before Friends ('78??), protecting some of the harder Yosemite cracks (and elsewhere) was a task and on some routes you simply didn't fall.
JL
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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All pretty amazing - solo, midsummer, first edition hexcentrics and stoppers, and one tube nut. The first hexcentrics only went to #10, and were longitudinally symmetrical - less versatile than the "eccentrics", which were introduced in 1975 or 1976. And only the #1 - #3 had (optional) wires. The stoppers were flat sided, went from #1 - #7, and only the #1 - #4 (?) had wires. The Chouinard tube chock didn't appear until 1974 (?), so perhaps he had a prototype, something home-made, or a Tieton type gadget.
At least there weren't any p'terodactyls nesting on the summit.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Hi Anders,
The timeline in one of the classic Chouinard Equipment catalogs shows Tube Chocks introduced in 1973. I'm not surprised Bruce had one. We certainly had several on Half Dome. But they proved to be next to worthless in the flaring Robbins Chimney, a pitch I both wanted and dreaded. (It definitely fulfilled my expectations.)
You can see Polycentric Hexes too, on our rack in the photos.
You're right, Stoppers # 1-4 were wired. And all straight-sided, a shape I still prefer (they don't get so stuck). If you haven't tried them, get ahold of a set of Frost's straight-sided Sentinel nuts. They work even better with an increased taper reminiscent of the old British MOAC.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks, Doug! We always got the new gear a little later up here, but when it did arrive, it was not only new and trendy, but worked really well.
If I remember, there were several varieties of hexcentrics in fairly quick succession, from 1972 - 1977 or so. Thick walled, symmetrical. Thick walled, asymmetrical. Thick walled, drilled holes. Then thin walls.
The addition of wires to medium and eventually larger nuts certainly made them more versatile - a soloist like Carson would probably really notice the extra reach. The earliest Chouinard hexes were all roped, even the #1. The specs said it took 5 mm rope, but it was an awful tight squeeze to actually get it threaded.
There was a sort of green revolution in climbing in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Mostly focussed on greening up the act of climbing itself. Epitomized by Carson's climb, your Half Dome climb, and others. I wonder if it's time for another more extensive green revolution, of both climbers and of climbing?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Being a free climmber I always liked cord in my chocks. Even today I snip the cable, drill out those Frost nuts (Tom approved the engineering) and thread dynamic rope. Cuts down on the way wire levers them out of the crack, and if you fall hard on them a little stretch in that rope reduces the peak impact load at the top piece, where the highest load in the system focuses (= 1.7 times the force on you or your belayer). I cut the ends off a lot of Ice Floss stringing chocks. Straight sided chocks on cord -- I look like such a geek it's a wonder they let me near the crags.
Greening, an idea whose time has come again! But look out...
A few years back there was a nicely written impassioned plea to big wall aid dudes to climb cleaner. Wish I could recall who wrote it. Being the last climbers with a license to freely carry pins, he thought the wall climbers were getting sloppy or just lazy about pulling out the hammer. He urged them to tighten up on the clean aid, and it sounded like it was having some effect.
Things like poop tubes help, now that the walls are gettiing crowded. Leave No Trace, organized cleanups, it all helps.
But the dark underbelly of green climbing is just driving. Off to the crags. Up to the mountains. I just drove home from the gym to write this. My shoulders feel great, but my footprint on the planet sucks. I got a Prius -- good -- but it's about to turn 100,000 miles -- not so good. I really don't fly around much anymore. I like to be happy in my local mountains. Climbers don't talk much about this stuff, but when Pratt died and Chouinard stood up, one of his tributes was that Pratt had lived a lot lighter on the earth than he does.
Climbers might not be thinking about their environmental shadow, but last week I met a young mountain biker who was. She told me about websites where you can build a profile of your environmental footprint. Hers was pretty good, she said, biking to work part of the time, being aware, so the readout was that it would take 1 1/2 Earths to support everyone at her level -- not too bad for an American -- until she added in her flying habit, visiting friends in New York. Then it jumped to four Earths.
So yeah, let's have a new green revolution for climbers. Only don't be surprised when it cuts into your climbing.
You remember the old bumper sticker "Sport Climbing is Neither"?
Well I don't share the sentiment, but lately I've been thinking of a parallel: "There's no such thing as 'Eco' tourism."
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hey Doug, regarding to your mountain skiing, I can attest to side stepping down slopes that you skied down. So before you try to 'tell' younger folk how 'we' skied down 45-degree slopes in skinny wooden skies, maybe you can tell me!
Upon reflection, maybe I would rather not know at this late date.
I once skied with Ned Gillette through the trees at full speed, and he would step turn on to the top of downed logs covered with snow, ski the length of them, and step or sail off the end.
I managed to straddle every one.
Roger
PS: Say hi and give my best regards to TM, Don, and Dennis when you see them.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Doug,
its a sad fact that many big wall climbers get so caught up in the culture that they choose to remain blind to the long term collective effects of their activity.
One mallet head once said to me, "Well, how else ya gonna climb it?" and he very simply didn't get it when I said, "Who says that you HAVE to?"
I suspect that eventually cumulative erosion will preclude further such behavior.
Whether by regulation or by physical problems it will become a moribund activity.
Eventually.
And just as likely centuries from now climbers will view the mallet heads in the same disregard we now see those who heedlessly plundered natural resources like buffalo, whales, seals, or destroyed watersheds with greed for mineral wealth, or any number of myopic pursuits that now we view with shame.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Doug,
We were also influenced by the clean climbing ethic that you promoted so well. . However, we were not quite as zealous. Tobin, Gib and I did a “clean” ascent of the South Face of Watkins, according to Steve’s definition. We used all nuts and hand placed pitons, but certainly had no qualms in clipping fixed pins and bolts.. We had a hammer, though, and may have even used it once or twice, but only in the style of Ed Drummond. I remember his quote when questioned about some first ascent in Britain. He admitted using a hammer on nuts, but “only a slight tap to set them.”
I remember Richard H. on a climb at Joshua Tree, absolutely wailing on a nut with a hammer, looking down at me at the belay and saying in a faux British accent, “Just a slight tap to set them!.”
Rick
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Doug,
Thanks for the scoop. I can only imagine the coniption fit Galen must have thrown upon finding out you left the pins behind. Are you sure he didn't clip that pin in an effort to settle the score in his mind? He could get vindictive like that. What was his reaction when you called him on it?
JD
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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That's a great story Rick.
Was the nut left fixed? Deliberately?
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jstan
climber
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Footprint
It is actually quite amazing how much automobile usage can be reduced. A factor of ten reduction would seem very difficult. Under certain conditions it probably is, but not always.
Bicycles can add a lot to current day life. I have slowly been getting up off the handlebars and find 20mph on the level is looking within reach. Even for an old hulk. My goal is 26mph so I can violate the speed limit anytime I want in town. I do keep having a dream. Me on my $100 bicycle at 25mph going past a long string of stopped $80,000 Hummers. The piece of resistance however is for them to look away from their cell phones to see me go by talking on my cell phone.
I think it can be done.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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It can be done John. Tailwind is the key!
Michael
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Roger, One word on hard skinny skiing: Balance
OK, quick story. When my son Tory was two, some big kids gave him a ratty skateboard deck w/o wheels. They had nailed inner tube loops on top and showed him how to surf steep hillsides sliding on oak leaves. Fun! I had him on XC skis then, but he dragged his board out to imitate snowboarders. Now a skateboard deck is not flat. It has side-to-side rocker, so it's squirrely on snow. I didn't say anything, tho, just let him work it. Tory never noticed the handicap,and sure enough he developed great balance. A real snowboard two years later was cake, and now he runs away from me on snowboard or tele skis, and he's a sponsored surfer.
Ron, I love your term "Mallet Heads" for wall climbers addicted to their hammers. LOL
Rick, Now I use all the fixed gear too. But it was worth tiptoeing around it on Half Dome, being squeaky Clean, to make the point. After that, back to the real world. I love the game of climbing clean, but in the end it's not the thrill of setting pro that drives us up the walls. As to "just a little tap," it's a slippery slope. I once loaned my rack to a well known climber and it came back with love taps all over the soft aluminum. I was pissed!
Jerry, Galen surprised us. Three pitches up -- too high to bother retreating -- Dennis made a show of rummaging in the haul bag. "Hey Galen, I looked everywhere in the haul bag and can't find the pins." Galen didn't blow it, he was cool and ironic. Just said, "You're not a very convincing liar." so it's quite possible that two days later clipping the pin was passive-agressive. I don't recall the exchange when we confronted him, a sure sign for me that the exchange had been emotionally charged -- I don't do confrontations well.
John, Just walked to and from an afternoon meeting. Cool. I think your strategy is good for the Hummers. but you need to get their attention. Simply being clean on the shoulder of the road is is not quite in-your-face enough to rock their smug, insular worlds. Ever look in their eyes? Sometimes it's hard not to give them the finger! But if you flew a little flag saying "Be my Petrol Bitch" you'd become road kill. It's a challenge...
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jstan
climber
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Sep 10, 2007 - 12:41am PT
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Every climbing area presents different challenges so anything said as true by one person should really be accepted by others as just a data point and left at that. For what it is worth from my experience I thought hammers had a very pleasing heft and bestowed a sense of power. Almost a weapon. By implication, going without means one is counting on something else, guile perhaps. I came to that conclusion when I first went without. I had this entirely odd thought that were I to take the big fall without a hammer I would be denied the chance to leave behind one or two final marks. That quite revealing thought clued me in to the fact I had been counting on the hammer for a great deal more than I had realized. It was a crutch. It had to go.
As for the owners of Hummers and other such crutches, our adjustment when the automobile is finally gone won’t be easy. But it will be just an adjustment.
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Gene
climber
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Sep 10, 2007 - 11:16am PT
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I remember Bruce as a very pleasant man. In addition to the WF of Sentinel, he made first clean ascents of the Rostrum, SF of the Column, the Chouinard-Herbert and the Nose, all by 1973 - quite early in the clean climbing era. An underappreciated pioneer of clean climbing.
Was Bruce the originator of the C ratings for clean aid?
GM
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Sep 10, 2007 - 01:44pm PT
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I was a fledgling big wall climber when this article came out and was heavily influenced by this and other reports of Bruce Carson's state-of-the-art hammerless ascents (as well as the 1/2 Dome Nat. Geo. article and the book in the rescue site with the list of "clean" ascents). My interpretation was similar to Ron's in that fixed gear and bolts were OK to use as well as hand placed pitons and copperheads. The dividing line was the presence or absence of a hammer. As Ricky noted it's the hammer that turns a nut, copperhead or piton into a pin. The "tapping" tool must be left behind as well, after all it's just a super lightweight hammer.
When Randy Vogel and I did the West Face we were pretty happy to find the "A5" flake pitch heavily fixed. He clipped his way across and I followed the same way. A bunch of that junk shifted and it was plenty exciting for us!
Mr. Carson's efforts motivated me to do early repeats of all those hammerless walls and it was quite a few years later that I ever placed a piton in Yosemite. The lure of the "mega exposed" places in the valley that require pitons finally did it though.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2007 - 01:26am PT
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The last sentence is wonderful. "But by merely changing the rules I had gleaned an adventure from a trade route." I wonder if any of the Yosemite classics have been done "spotless", even the Nose? An entire new category of clean climbing and renewed interest and challenge in unfashionable older routes. With the NW face just one pin shy and Sentinel too, one can only wonder if other parties tried to climb that way, to the letter, subsequently.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Sep 11, 2007 - 01:53am PT
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Bruce was on a trip to the Pamirs in Russia with a bunch of us in the summer of 1974. This was soon after the publication of the Mountain article. Bruce and I hit it off and managed to go astray of our Russian "translators" on the day or so we had in old, drab Moscow. We talked about many plans. Like me, Bruce was ready to take his skills to the high mountains. The very next summer he stepped through a cornice on Trisul(?) in India, and is gone forever. Never did get to fulfill any mutual dreams with him.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2007 - 02:11am PT
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The dedication for this epic 1977 book reads "and, because it was one of his last great adventures, I hope it will commemorate the memory of Bruce Carson, who, in his last few years, brought so much to American mountaineering."
Jello on the slopes leading to Krylenko Pass.
Glad you survived that grisly get together, Jeff.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 17, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
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wow - I finally know what Bruce Carson looked like and some more about his climbing - thanks Steve and Jello for the posts.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2007 - 12:11am PT
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I found this entry in the June 1973 Summit just before the West Face solo and eventual hammerless ascent of the Nose with Yvon Chouinard. Lovely Harry Daley photo too!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2007 - 02:33am PT
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From the AAJ 1974, a full account of Bruce's clean climbing activities including the first hammerless ascent of the Nose with Yvon Chouinard.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2007 - 07:37pm PT
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Bump for Nose history.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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Bump for DR's stories about the NW Face clean!
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martygarrison
Trad climber
atlanta
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Jan 29, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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what a great post for me. bruce worked in robbins shop in 73 as did my partner stu polack. we spent a lot of time jumping on the tramp in the wharehouse. Not sure how it happened, ie did bruce convince stu or whatever but the next thing I knew we were hiking to the base of the west face. Mind you stu was an eagle scout and I was a big time swimmer, that was the extent of our climbing experience. Everything went fine however I always have to tell this one story. At the top of the ow cracks, can't remember what they are called now, I ran out of rope. there was a quarter inch bolt, in those days at least to us it was what we called "bomb proof". I setup the belay where I hung, proceeded to haul and stu jumared, all on one quarter inch bolt. yes we were young, dumb, but so lucky.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2008 - 12:41am PT
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Never quite felt THAT lucky! LOL
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 30, 2008 - 11:59pm PT
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Bump for a great thread.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2008 - 11:26am PT
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And a great unsung hero of the clean..........
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2008 - 06:10pm PT
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Here you go Ken. YC and Bruce Carson did the first clean and hammerless ascent of the Nose in a bold stroke August, 1973. Date edit.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2008 - 03:47pm PT
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I wonder how many hundreds of piton placements were made after it went clean at C3 thirty five years ago? That is often the great irony of clean climbing that it doesn't result in a significantly harder grade but only requires some commitment, patience and creativity to work out a solution without resorting to the destructive use of force.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Oct 27, 2008 - 03:57pm PT
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Rob Lesher and I went hammerless on the Nose in "78". We knew it had been done that way, but it still seemed ballsy to us!
Not taking pins was fairly common I think, but not taking a hammer was not.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:24pm PT
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Good point.
I rarely used pins after 1971 on either new or established routes, but I almost always carried a hammer with a pointy end (unless I knew the route well).
I sorted my old gear this past weekend and found that most of the pins that I had purchased in the late 60s (when I was planning to be 'real' climber) had never been used.
On the other hand most of my old Hexs and Stoppers have characteristic dings on them, oddly shaped like the pointy end of my hammer.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2008 - 09:31pm PT
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Hammerless bump from the father of clean aid!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nov 22, 2008 - 09:56pm PT
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Anyone remember the "slightly smutty" nut tool?
I think it was Forrest, maybe CMI, it had a lump of heavy (not toxic) metal on the end for coaxing purposes.
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Nov 22, 2008 - 11:11pm PT
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John Fiske--the husband of a woman who used to work at my school--did the first ascent of the Rostrum with Chuck Pratt and I just realized that I should have sent him the info on the big 50th anniversary party. A few years ago I lent him a copy of 'Ordeal By Piton', 'Camp 4', and 'Yosemite Climber' and got a fantastic note back from him. As soon as I can get it scanned I'll post up.
Doug and Steve--thanks for the inspiration. Doug, I can't count how many times I've sprained an ankle after getting psyched on 'Running Talus'! Plus, you unknowingly really pushed me to make the move to the East Side, particularly the Palisades and Buttermilk Country.
Steve--Between Jolly Roger and the pinless ascent of the Muir Wall you really pushed the boat further into the deep water. The rest of us now need to get out after it.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2008 - 12:16pm PT
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If you understand the depth and character of one's predecessors then nothing short of one's best effort even comes close to being satisfactory or inspired with respect to personal style. It comes down to will and creativity.....pretty raw and simple really.
I have been fortunate to be able to add a few adventures to the mix to get people to expand their own sense of possibility upon refection.
Thanks for the acknowledgement, Marty.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
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bump-any beta on the west face of sentinel? anyone do that route anymore?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Jun 17, 2009 - 03:13am PT
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That is one I ALWAYS wanted to do! Photos anyone?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
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The West Face is a classic route that everybody should do IMO. I did it back in the late seventies with New Mexico hardman Peter Prandoni. The rock is a bit granular just like the rest of Sentinel but the climbing is well worth the scrabbling. It begs to be done as you see its narrow and elegant aspect every morning from Camp 4 and points down valley.
Originally the route went up as a Grade VI because Yvon and Tom climbed it from the base before discovering the third class approach now commonly in use.
Having seen Sentinel- The West Face several times beforehand, I was a bit nervous about The Expanding Flake pitch but found it to be set up with fixed Stoppers when I actually got there. Here is a shot of Peter at the classic fixed piton belay from the end of the difficulties on that very pitch.
I also followed my first 5.11 pitch high in the air on that outing and bivied on the descent due to headlamp troubles in the failing light. Sweet memories!!!
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Gene
climber
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Jun 17, 2009 - 03:56pm PT
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Back when I was a puppy and read Roper daily, that description of the expanding flake would make my hands sweat. A1 if you send - A5 if you blew it. Good stuff!
gm
Edit: Roper says to nail up to a sling belay from a bolt. Nice 1/4 incher for sure. Yikes! Almost as good as expando with fixed stoppers on a thin ceiling/flake!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jun 17, 2009 - 04:27pm PT
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Since nobody else has mentioned it I would just like to say that Bruce was one of the nicest people I've known. RIP bro.
Interestingly, his frequent ropemate, Dave Anderson, was also exceptionally nice. They deserved each other.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 17, 2009 - 04:28pm PT
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Just a reminder t'y'll that BITD one 1/4 x 1-1/4 was thought to be good to go. Eventually reason overtook everything though .
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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Reilly- Dave Anderson was a very fine man indeed and the perfect partner for Bruce during their clean climbing adventures. I mourned his tragic death along with everyone that knew him well. He was going to be a first rate old codger and I never foresaw a short life in that gentle and determined face. Thanks for invoking his partnership and personality. Those two had a special bond well worth honoring.
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Gene
climber
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Jun 17, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
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Back in the Dark Ages, when Bruce was working for RR in Modesto, he sold me a pair of water damaged Galibier Peuterey boots for $27.50 rather than $35.00. Cosmetic stains only that were immediately covered with SnoSeal. Still have them, although their last climb was Shasta in 1997.
RIP Bruce. Class act all the way. Fun and friendly guy.
gm
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful British Columbia
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bump for clean aid climbing ...
lot's of good threads buried deeply in this place
another enjoyable read - thanks !
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2010 - 05:26pm PT
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Super Chicken Bump!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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I am, for the most part, a better person and climber for having known Dave Anderson. We, a small group of climbers, affectionately called Dave "Andy" and it is how I will always remember him.
The picture of Dave I have at first mention or thought of his name, is him with his huge grin, twinkling eyes, and scraggly mop of blond hair making his way across the old Yose. Lodge parking lot. Occasionally wincing when his bare feet made contact with the jagged gravel, or perhaps it was a blister or painful arches from standing in aiders, for his first words to me that morning were "Dude, I just did a first ascent on the Captain...!"(Lost World VI/5.10/A3+) I hadn't seen him since the previous season, and we had much to talk and celebrate about.
I did about 4-5 first ascents in the Valley with Dave, all in the .10+ or harder range, primarily 2-3 pitches. Dave would always ask "What should we call them..." They were great climbs, but he decided to not include them in the "route notebook"! There was such a focus on new routes and getting your name in the guidebook, that a handful of the Seattle/Pacific NW boy's decided to just "Shine that scene!!"(F*#k that scene)and not document/record their new routes! They were all eventually redone and claimed by various individuals of that time period.
Dave gave me a firsthand account of their Rostrum climb. He focused mainly on the free climbing and was instrumental in freeing sections that had not yet gone free on the Rostrum.
I recall the first time I met Bruce Carson, at the base of El Cap. He and another guy had just retreated from about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way up the Muir Wall(I believe it was the Muir?)! And he simply shook his head and adamantly stated "No go, it won't go all clean!" as they passed us.
I remember reflecting on the amount of effort it must have taken to reach that high-point, and that I would have considered finishing the route conventionally since there was no reason not to, and it would not go otherwise. Evidently he had committed himself to a different drummer/purpose/cause.
One day after a pit stop at the Generator Crack, Dave stated that Bruce was a master on the hi-line/slackline, or whatever it was referred to at that time. And pointed to the cables that shot abruptly up from a large boulder 100+ ft. to the top of the tower overlooking the Merced R. And described how BC would nimbly walk up to the top of the cable, and then turn around and slide back down the cable, with the possibility of being cut in two(by hitting one of the lower cables)and certain death, should he fall.
Dave was a brilliant climber, OW Master, and human being! I have often wondered why no one has initiated a memorial thread for D.A!
Dave "Andy" Anderson was "One in a Million!"
R.I.P. Andy!!
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mastadon
Trad climber
quaking has-been
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I knew Dave and Bruce pretty well. Still miss 'em.....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2010 - 11:37am PT
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I only met Bruce once but Dave used to spend some time climbing and drying out down in Tucson often in the company of Todd Bibler and Katherine Freer. I really miss Dave too. He was set to become a first rate old codger and I couldn't wait to tangle with him in the second half. He had a smile like an alpine sunrise after a cold bivi, warm and grand.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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Classic Bump!
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BooDawg
Social climber
Polynesian Paralysis
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Sep 27, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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Steve, Thanks once again for your great postings and accompanying bumps. I wonder if Hennek has seen DR's account of their HD climb. I'll send him the link...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
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Since Galen and Doug were at odds over purpose and follow through, Dennis' observations would be fabulous! Especially the part about avoiding all the fixed crap and steppin' out on some prototype Cracknups at the crux!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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Bump for SuperChicken!$$$$
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 29, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
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Palin/Bachman Bump
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Steve wrote "Dave used to spend some time climbing and drying out down in Tucson often in the company of Todd Bibler and Katherine Freer."
Is that Catherine Freer of Freer Wilderness, the therapeutic wilderness/boarding school?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2011 - 11:00pm PT
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Same Catherine Freer alright.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Will that Pate-ism stick?
Grateful Grossman-has a ring to it, a mood and certainly a reference to another era. Only time will tell.
Steve has this amazing ability of searching, stealing, pulling and sometimes ripping stories from the archives and posting them in an oddly timely manner. We are so lucky as this encompasses a great deal of time and energy. Mimi must be one tolerant lady.
Thanks Steve for your time and effort to keep this forum alive and spontaneous.
I never met Bruce Carson, but like many ST encounters, after reading this posting, I feel I have a pulse on his life and times.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Grateful to Grossman here too:
From climbing.com:(Bruce) Carson died September 4, 1975, only 24, after falling through a cornice in the Indian Himalaya. In 1998, an avalanche broke Anderson’s femur while he backcountry-skied near Salt Lake City. His rescue helicopter crashed, killing all aboard.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2011 - 05:13pm PT
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Thanks Guido!
Mimi is indeed a very patient partner!
Just passing along a little inspiration to anyone out there looking.
Bruce was the greatest clean wall climber of our time and I truly wish that he had stayed around long enough to really show us his stuff.
With his skills, Bruce would have gone on to rack up an impressive list of first clean and hammerless ascents. The array of clean climbing tools these days would blow his mind!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2011 - 02:46pm PT
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Tragic in both cases...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
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2012 is the 40th anniversary of the 72 Chouinard Clean Climbing Catalog.
Have a wild and adventurous New Year and tread gently folks.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
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As I have posted before,he was going to be a first rate old codger. I was looking forward to it.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Mar 20, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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Anderson, Carson and Grossman archive bump!
Clean.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Mar 20, 2012 - 11:49pm PT
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that's a cool story, I wasn't aware. Not too many folks hop onto Sentinel these days.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
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Clean climbing bump...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 26, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
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Thank you again. Set straight, schooled, and mentored before breakfast. Yes, noon again. Sleeplessnessess.
I repay you with this coinage: "clamourless ascent" as in the Peter Haan classic style-fest, no fanfare, no medium, no brouhaha. Just serious fun.
He "Sal-oed." (Man, where's my coffee?)
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Huevon
Mountain climber
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TYeary,
I am joining this discussion on Bruce Carson very late but you had inquiry on route on Alpamayo, East Ridge. I was his partner on that ascent in 75. We were there as part of a 8 person team. We all got up the north ridge from our base camp on the NE side and were the 9th ascending party. Cleaned tons of stuff off the route on the way down. Week or so later, Bruce and I did the east ridge in 3 days / 2 nights. We believed we were the 2nd party on the route. Don't remember now who was first. Immediately following our departure from the Blanca, Bruce joined a team in the Pamirs on Trisul and the rest is history. That trip in Peru was the first time I had met Bruce. I found him to be one of the safest climbers I ever met and climbed with making Trisul all the more tragic.
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D-Rail
Trad climber
Calaveras
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Bump for Sentinel West Face!
Awesome history! Now I am even more inspired!
Does this route get climbed? Will it be cool when the valley floor is not? A1-A5 huh? That sounds interesting....
Does anyone have more info on this?
Daryl
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Huevon, Trisul is in the Indian Himalaya near Nanda Devi, not the Pamirs.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Bump for clean and bold!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
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Superchicken Bump...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
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Vedy clean bump...
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 23, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
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I would be interested to hear from some of the old "clean" masters of the 70's about whoppers taken on clean protection. Any incidents stand out of huge leader falls on clean pro?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2017 - 11:27am PT
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This was the 80s but I took a fifty footer putting up the Central Scrutinizer and got held by a #3 and #4 RP with a 200 foot factor two fall if the little suckers didn't hold. Saint Roland was looking out for me that day.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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Hammerless style bump...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 20, 2018 - 11:15am PT
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hammerlessness bump
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| Messages 1 - 96 of total 96 in this topic |
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