Discussion Topic |
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 17, 2016 - 07:29am PT
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ORG climbers:
Sorry to harsh your morning coffee buzz or afternoon beer smoothie, but it sounds like someone lost their dog in the river yesterday. And we almost lost ours. The river is high right now due to a release from Lake Crowley, so the easy access to many of the east side crags is not so easy in many places. The Banana Belt, for example, was completely cut off with about a foot of fast-moving water over the two crossings.
Our crew was headed for Pink Wall/Big Tower area. Mister E had constructed a doggie-friendly crossing a few weeks ago using some boards. No, however, part of the bridge was under a small amount of water. Way lay down some rocks; The Maid ran off and came back like Conan the Barbarian with a giant railroad tie. My wife, who's spooked by river crossings, got across fine, so we figured it was time to get the hound over. We should have known better. Django can be a little spazzy at times when he goes for something spooky or technical. We often spot him on bouldery approaches. Well, ol' Dj took the move across the damp section too quickly, a paw slipped, and to our horror, off we went into the current. For an instant, he went totally under, but quickly resurfaced, paddling for all he was worth. I ran downstream as Dj went over a small falls. I scanned frantically for places to catch him. Incredibly, DJ stuck the landing over the falls and held on in some rocks. I scrambled down and was able to grab him by the scruff of the neck and help him up and out. He rolled in the dry leaves as he always does after getting wet, and the crisis was over.
We were all pretty shaken, but Django was fine. At another possible crossing to a different crag up stream, we saw folks with dogs walking the plank. A couple of the hounds were fine, but a couple were deeply spooked, and it looked like on the that group decided to stay back with the dogs. Smart move. We decided against that crossing, too, and stuck to the west side for the rest of the day.
Mister E and The Maid ran into people later in the day who were looking in fruitlessly for a dog that had gone in. Looks like that hound didn't make it. We were lucky. I guess the moral of the story is belay the pooch if there's any risk like this. A good doggie harness and a short length of rope would easily do the trick. Or don't do the crossings. It was a beautiful day in the Gorge, but for one dog and his people, it ended darkly.
Be careful folks. Love, peace, and check your knots.
BAd
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BryanE
climber
Minnesota
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Apr 17, 2016 - 08:14am PT
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Glad you and your pooch made it out alright. My thoughts go out to those who weren't so lucky.
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Fish Finder
climber
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Apr 17, 2016 - 08:33am PT
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Sad
At what point do we risk an animals life for our enjoyment ?
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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Apr 17, 2016 - 08:54am PT
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The "other" dog apparently went in somewhere above the Social Platform, where the water is running quite a bit faster than in the Lower.
We were hoping that the dog was maybe scared and on the other side, but after much searching there was no sign. Our fear is that the dog got pinned under a rock in the turbulence, since there was no sign of the poor creature...even at the water grate before the power plant :(
So glad Django stuck the boulder in the drop - what a champ!
The crossing to Warning Signs spooked a dog so bad, his owner almost lost his pack in the river scrambling to retrieve his pet on the bridge.
Be careful with your pets in the Gorge right now!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 17, 2016 - 09:12am PT
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Yeah- terrible incident. :(
It's easy to underestimate the danger. None of the crossings anywhere in the Gorge are dog friendly right now. It's tempting to try to get across to get to the shady side... but best to stick to the west side right now if you bring a dog - unless it is small enough to carry or you have a harness and rope to belay your pooch.
I'll be dragging a plank down to raise the Pink Face crossing above the running water sometime this week. The big tree crossing below Big Tower is still easy to get across if you have people without pets.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 17, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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Be careful with your pets in the Gorge right now!
Better yet, just don't bring your "pets" to the Gorge, or anywhere that may be a danger to them . . . Your experience will be better if you are not constantly worried about the welfare of your "pet".
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 17, 2016 - 10:50am PT
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Climbers need to chill...I got bitched out for bringing my mule to the crags..
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 17, 2016 - 10:59am PT
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Don't bring pets to the crag, problem solved. SO STUPID. You get what you ask for.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:00am PT
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It's O.K. to bring a drug mule . . . you will have lots of friends.
Snort.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:06am PT
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sorry to see this about the doggy, not getting into the age-old debate, except to say that it seems like dogs are essential gear that some climbers can't climb without. Issued with the leader cards at the climbing gym
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:07am PT
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BAds dog is sick has no biz at the crags or any dog, if you are thinking about you beloved pet while climbing, you will not be climbing at your best.
Sorry about DJ being sick bAd.
Nuff said.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:20am PT
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THIS IS HUGE NEWS THE whole world of climbing must know.. What NOT TO DO.
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ruppell
climber
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:35am PT
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SO STUPID. You get what you ask for.
So people that bought this dog to the ORG asked for it to get washed into a river and drowned? Hopefully your smarter in person than your online persona is. Because that statement is just dumb. It makes you look like an idiot.
How about the next time a climber dies we just say "You get what you ask for?" Think about it for a minute or two then STFU.
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ruppell
climber
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:41am PT
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No Locker it's not correct. You are confusing sh#t happens with asking for sh#t to happen. I've never grabbed a hold and thought to myself "Man wouldn't this be a great time to die."
We all take risks that we can live with or die with but none of us are asking for the latter.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
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They should
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 17, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
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If you are focused on the climbing and protecting yourself and not the pet, less chance of anything bad going down.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Apr 17, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
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It's called a leash.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
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Tami, they weren't crossing the Cheakamus or Capilano in flood.
A harness and 20' of rope would have been fine.
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Todd Townsend
Social climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
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No, moral is "pine creek. Duh."
Actually, this is a pretty bad idea too.
The endangered bighorn sheep are currently migrating through pine creek and birthing their lambs up there. The sheep are particularly wary of dogs and our local fish and wildlife crew is extremely concerned about the potential for negative interactions between the sheep and climbers. They are currently observing the climbing activity in the canyon to see what impact it may be having on the bighorns.
Please, if you're going to climb in pine creek, leave your dog at home.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 17, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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Apr 17, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Don't bring pets to the crag, problem solved. SO STUPID. You get what you ask for.
People are sometimes idiots about their pets.
I went to a 2 Cellos concert in the opera house last night. Very entertaining.
Some guy comes in with a dog who has a "service animal " vest on and sits down next to me. I casually ask what service the dog provides, he says it's a companion animal ( aren't all pets?). I'm not saying this guy did it ( OK, I am) but here in Portland people get these vests so they can take their pets anywhere.
Anyhow, the concert was sometimes loud. I'm partially deaf and my ears complained. At the peak of frenzy I pulled out the phone and a decibel APP was reading in the mid to high 90's.
The dog was clearly not happy, and I tried to cover its ears. Up until last night, I'm pretty sure that dog's hearing was a lot more sensitive than mine.
I question whether this dog or the one that drowned asked for anything.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 17, 2016 - 03:35pm PT
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At the peak of frenzy I pulled out the phone and a decibel APP was reading in the mid to high 90's.
Christ, that's insanely loud. I believe Cal Osha requires ear protection over 86dB, and it's a log scale so high 90+ is hearing damage for sure. Kind of like standing around on the tarmack while the pilot spins up his jets.
Those sound support guys ought to be tar'd and feathered.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 17, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
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Condolences to the folks who lost the dog. We know they are part of the family. A friendly reminder. If your dog gets in a bad situation in water do not try to rescue the dog. They are better swimmers and survivors than you are. you will likly drown and the dog with most likly survive.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
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Yeah, the usual comments. Whatever. This was just a cautionary tale about the Gorge right now. I hope other folks can learn from our experience. The other encounters with the hounds at the crags were great. Folks were having a blast. It was just a wonderful day. One of my favorite sights was a young boy on a mountain bike burning up and down the dirt road below the central Gorge trail with his high-energy dog busting ass to keep up--a wonderful scene of boy and dog and youthful energy. Such a delightful contrast to so many kids eating sugary junk and playing X-Box until they develop tendonitis in their thumbs.
Chill out folks, be smart. Spring is here and the climbs are waiting.
BAd
PS: @Tradman--Seems like good advice! Hounds can swim.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 17, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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Coupple years ago a pooch got caught in a bad riptide while the family was walking on the beach. The son jumped in to save the dog, the dad jumped in to save the son. Both humans drowned and the dog swam to shore no worse for wear. Mom wittnessed the whole thing.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Apr 17, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
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Damn shitty situation. I only have had family pets but I took them climbing just one time, didn't go well. I think this is different than other dogs at the crags threads because it isn't a behavioral problem. It's a problem where the dog is the victim.
I think it is a good idea when climbing with someone who doesn't have a say in what's going on to play a bit closer to the vest. Dogs at appropriate crags are great. Dogs in the alpine are not.
Right now it is not appropriate to take your dog across the creek.
And Geezus climb at pine creek. It's not 1992 we climb granite now.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Apr 17, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
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pretty clear that dogs should stay behind. An argument against this relies wholly on selfishness and rationalization (e.g. my dog is well-behaved, everyone loves my dog)
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 17, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
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"Some dogs are fine at the crags; others ( and their owners ) are not. "
"...selfishness and rationalization (e.g. my dog is well-behaved, everyone loves my dog)"
usually from people that have absolutely NO control
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Todd Townsend
Social climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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I should have been more clear, ORG is lame. That's what I meant, braj.
No problemo, broheim. Just tryin' to spread the word that the sheep are not as down with your pup as you are.
And Geezus climb at pine creek. It's not 1992 we climb granite now.
Yeah, what the hell! Next thing you know, those geezers will be busting out their old lycra again. Obviously someone didn't get the memo...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 17, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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"Some dogs are fine at the crags; others ( and their owners ) are not. "
"...selfishness and rationalization (e.g. my dog is well-behaved, everyone loves my dog)"
These statements are at the heart of the issue.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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Apr 17, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
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Yeah, what the hell! Next thing you know, those geezers will be busting out their old lycra again. Obviously someone didn't get the memo...
I only got the "wear inappropriate lycra" memo, Todd? ;)
The ORG is soo played out - nothing to see here, move along...
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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Is the gorge doing the simulated spring floods? I believe that DWP releases a high flow to simulate a spring flood, otherwise its 40 cfs or so, regulated and unchanging.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
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I think I'm wrong about the constant 40 cfs, it might be a constant 30 or something like that. It's been awhile since I studied this stuff.
My point is that is that if the water is high, it's not some natural thing that just happens. It's regulated. If the water is high enough to kill dogs, it is a scheduled event.
It should be predictable, with the right info on when they schedule these things.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
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Locker for the win! Classic, dood.
BAd
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 17, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
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I'm allergic to cats, but that ain't no wild, unpredictable river.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 17, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
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Dog and owner ball cup alert...
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Apr 17, 2016 - 11:22pm PT
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cup this
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2016 - 05:58am PT
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Hey, Jefe--Perfect shot of the bridge and your great hound. In that shot, water was up over the far end, although not deeply.
@Burchy: Yeah, I hear you. ORG's not my fave, but there is a ton of good climbing, and when it's cold in Bishop, you can still do routes in the sun pretty comfortably. Actually, I get spooked going in and out of there thinking about an earthquake--terrifying to consider how many billions of pounds of choss would come raining down on the crag rats below.
BAd
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 18, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
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Lots of dog poop in the gorge, not to many peeps keep track of their doo doo pick up. To busy thinking ok it's not a big deal. Last year I did visit to gorge. What I saw was not very good.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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Apr 19, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
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Bump!
Since not one but TWO dogs (NOT the one that died) fell in on our crossing to the Pink Face a few days ago, Skip and I hauled down an 8-foot 2 X 8 today and finished the "high water" crossing. Part of the old crossing was underwater, anyway (see above picture from Jefe) - should be good to go now:
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
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We're the people your mother warned you about!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 19, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
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I saw that 2x8 bridge on Yelp..!
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 19, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
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Boy, that creek is quite the torrent . . . wtf?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Apr 19, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Apr 19, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
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Like Jim said
build a proper Bridge
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
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hey there say, bad... i am so very happy for you that your dog lived through this...
this was awful for him...
hope he will be safe from this stuff, later...
thank you for sharing a good lesson, though, hard, that you
have just been through...
whewww...
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:56pm PT
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Those who are suggesting. " build a proper bridge" may not realize that the Gorge is more or less "private property". At least that is my understanding. Fishermen, climbers and others who visit do so under permission of the power company. The Gorge has in the past been posted as "closed" to entry when large water releases have been done. There is a large working power plant down there. The powers that be don't seem to have had a problem with plank bridges but I'm not sure how they would take to someone installing a " proper bridge".
Locals may have a better take on this than I do, but In general the plank bridges are well secured and do just fine for most times.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 20, 2016 - 07:06am PT
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The planks are fine most of the year and the DWP wouldn't be jiggy with "a proper bridge". I've been warned that they will haul lumber away if its too obvious. We carried one heavy-ass plank down there to fix a hazard- civic duty for noob and dog safety is done.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2016 - 07:12am PT
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When the planks disappear just do like the Half Dome cables and leave a couple of leashes and doggie harnesses. Too simple or too tempting to the klepto-inclined!
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 20, 2016 - 07:22am PT
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 20, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
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Apr 17, 2016 - 03:35pm PT
At the peak of frenzy I pulled out the phone and a decibel APP was reading in the mid to high 90's.
Christ, that's insanely loud. I believe Cal Osha requires ear protection over 86dB, and it's a log scale so high 90+ is hearing damage for sure. Kind of like standing around on the tarmack while the pilot spins up his jets.
Those sound support guys ought to be tar'd and feathered.
Yeah, it's often stupid.
I was at a soccer game last summer ( NWSL-womens pro league) at Rutgers and the same App read over 100.
I went to the announcing booth and told them if they didn't turn it down I would call 911 and the state SPCA.
I showed them I was taking video of them and screen shots of the APP readings.
Half the audience was kids, and there were a couple service dogs
I think the SPCA threat is what got them to cut back.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Apr 20, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
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I climbed at ORG way back before climbing was invented.
Looks like a beautiful area. Forget the High Sierra, right?
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 20, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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damn that girl needs a sandwich. Stop running and eat a sandwich
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 20, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
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Brennan...LADWP is public enemy #1 on the eastside...Water thieves who could care less about the environmental status of the Eastern Sierra...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 20, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
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Right...Darling...
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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Apr 20, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
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MisterF and skip--Yeah, haul more lumber down there. DWP loves that. They only do the annual d#@&%e for nothing.
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herm
Trad climber
Bishop
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
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There are cool little plywood patios up Pine Creek with the cool kids.
Be a nice venue for the Burger Barn.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
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Overwatch wins the Internet! Losing it right now....
@NeeBee: Thanks. It was a close call. We're smarter and wiser now. Hope others are too.
BAd
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 21, 2016 - 06:58am PT
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Thanks, Bad, I seem to hit about one out of every thousand quips but it doesn't stop me from trying although I always crack me up
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 21, 2016 - 07:23am PT
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Now everyone be sure to tell your doggies that climbing is an inherently dangerous activity.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 21, 2016 - 08:27am PT
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I think they should pass a law requiring Ladwp to put up doggie guard rails like they made the petting zoo in Moorpark put up for the goats. Cuz they might fall and hurt themselves.
Good grief.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 21, 2016 - 09:21am PT
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The endangered bighorn sheep are currently migrating through pine creek and birthing their lambs up there. The sheep are particularly wary of dogs and our local fish and wildlife crew is extremely concerned about the potential for negative interactions between the sheep and climbers. They are currently observing the climbing activity in the canyon to see what impact it may be having on the bighorns.
Please, if you're going to climb in pine creek, leave your dog at home.
Oops. Although this was last fall so the migrating thing may or may not have been going on then.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Apr 21, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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Hey say hey there say, I wrote a poem.
Doggy doggy I got you from the pound,
Doggy doggy I wish you didn't drown,
Doggy doogy your tail will never wag,
Doggy doggy I shouldn't have taken you to the crag.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 21, 2016 - 11:19am PT
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"Astro Dog," a great route in the Black Canyon was named by the first ascensionists who found a tourist's dog at the base....a nice 1,800 ft. ride.
The Black is a National Park and all dogs are supposed to be kept on leashes at all times. Just another instance of a dog owner flouting the rules and their doggie payed the ultimate penalty.
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portent
Social climber
your mom's house
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Apr 21, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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Dear Supertopo Cry Baby Club,
You anti-dog people should be looking at their owners. I bring my dog to the crag all the time and he is perfectly behaved. It's not the dog its the owner.
Kovar
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 21, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
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^^^^^^ that is Burchey gold right there, cracking me up
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 21, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
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Dear Kovar Dog Owner,
Your dog sucks at the crag too.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Apr 21, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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KOVAR KOVAR KOVAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111666
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Mule Skinner
Social climber
Bishop
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Apr 21, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
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Scared dog can never swim.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Apr 25, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
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WTF are you even talking about?
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okie
Trad climber
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Apr 25, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
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What Tami said. People have died trying to cross rivers because they thought being tied in would save them. Just the opposite.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 26, 2016 - 06:49am PT
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WTF are you even talking about?
Took the words out of my keyboard...
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 26, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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What do you care gym climber?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 26, 2016 - 11:02am PT
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Harmonic disequilibrium in the Dog Zone is almost invariably introduced by human intervention.
Use of single-sample genetic methods to estimate effective population size has skyrocketed in recent years. Although the underlying models assume discrete generations, they are widely applied to age-structured species. We simulated genetic data for 21 iteroparous animal and plant species to evaluate two untested hypotheses regarding performance of the single-sample method based on linkage disequilibrium (LD): (1) estimates based on single-cohort samples reflect the effective number of breeders in one reproductive cycle (Nb), and (2) mixed-age samples reflect the effective size per generation (Ne). We calculated true Ne and Nb, using the model species' vital rates, and verified these with individual-based simulations. We show that single-cohort samples should be equally influenced by Nb and Ne and confirm this with simulated results: [Formula: see text] was a linear (r(2) = 0.98) function of the harmonic mean of Ne and Nb. We provide a quantitative bias correction for raw [Formula: see text] based on the ratio Nb/Ne, which can be estimated from two or three simple life history traits. Bias-adjusted estimates were within 5% of true Nb for all 21 study species and proved robust when challenged with new data. Mixed-age adult samples produced downwardly biased estimates in all species, which we attribute to a two-locus Wahlund effect (mixture LD) caused by combining parents from different cohorts in a single sample. Results from this study will facilitate interpretation of rapidly accumulating genetic estimates in terms of both Ne (which influences long-term evolutionary processes) and Nb (which is more important for understanding eco-evolutionary dynamics and mating systems).
More simply, humans should never place a dog in a place where it does not belong. Even 911 can't remove the sometimes disassterous effects of the disharmony.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Apr 26, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
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Camaron sholly
"Glad, one less stupid dog at the crags"
Really? That's what you would say to the people who just lost their dog?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 26, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
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Define "lost"
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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Apr 26, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
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Camaron sholly is just full of quality posts. All full of positivity and practical input.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
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I guess it's the anonymity, but there's something about the net that sure brings out the wonderful in people.
Anyway, back to the OP: Just be careful with the hounds crossing the OR.
That is all.
BAd
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 26, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
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just don't bring any pest's no problems.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 26, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
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^^^^ The best way to not 'lose' a dog in the ORG
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 26, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
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Constinetanople.. No pests..? What about crabs..?
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 26, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
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OR that right winger Rubio douch bag.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Apr 26, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
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Here's some info on Gorge flows:
Short story-- Flows have been high in the Gorge over the past week or two because LADWP has problems with one of the hydro plants and is using the river channel in the Gorge to move water down from Crowley to Pleasant Valley. Releases have been about 116 cfs. Obviously, take care with your selves, kids, and dogs. As Merle said about the Kern, "it ain't deep nor wide, but it's a mean piece of water my friend."
Long Story-- Flows in the Gorge are going to change. The Gorge was dry from the mid-20th century, when LADWP diverted flow from the Gorge for hyropower generation, until 1991 when a rupture in the penstock (the big pipe) forced LADWP to put water into the river channel. Mono County and Calif. Fish and Game sued LADWP to keep some water in the Gorge and a long period of negotiation ensued over what that amount of water should be. The 36 cfs flows that we've become accustomed to over the past couple of decades result from an interim agreement between the parties in place while they negotiated a permanent flow schedule. They reached that agreement in 2014, and began implementing the permanent schedule in 2015. You may have noticed flows were a bit high at certain times last year.
Starting in 2018, in most years, LADWP will begin releasing large flows for periods of either 7 or 25 days during the spring/summer where flows above the Middle Gorge Power Plant will peak at 480 cfs and below the Plant they will peak at 600 cfs. During these times the Gorge will be closed to recreation including climbing. The purpose of the high flows is for fishery and riparian habitat enhancement. The details of the rather complicated flow schedule are on LADWP's website, in their environmental documents, look for a "negative declaration" on the "Owens Gorge Flow Restoration Project." I'd cut and paste the schedules or post a link but I can't get their web site to open at the moment.
Despite some of the comments here, the Gorge is quite popular both for locals and visitors and it will be a challenge to keep folks informed about and compliant with the closures. Notwithstanding the long history of conflicts between LADWP and the Eastern Sierra, LADWP has been a pretty friendly and non-intrusive land manager when it comes to climbing and it behooves us all to work with them on this. In 2018 and thereafter, info on when the high flows are scheduled should be available in April so that the word can get out about the peak flow schedule.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 26, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
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Thanks, Bob. Useful info.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 26, 2016 - 10:05pm PT
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That's one way to get to climbers out.
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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Apr 27, 2016 - 05:18am PT
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Excellent Bob. Thank you.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 27, 2016 - 06:01am PT
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Bob,
Do you know the "real story" of the rupture (collapse)?
( I'm not talking to protect the heroic)
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Apr 27, 2016 - 06:51am PT
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Flip flop, I truly don't know.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 27, 2016 - 07:29am PT
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That's one way to get to climbers out.
Drown them like rats? :)
Incredibly helpful info Bob. Thanks for taking the time to post something helpful rather than hateful.
I am however curious how they plan to keep both climbers and fishermen out during the seasonal closures. April is still pretty popular down there for both groups- they may have a struggle on their hands.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 27, 2016 - 07:42am PT
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I'm spillin the beans.
Here's the story.
There is an old goat who fishes the Owens.
He was a longtime LADWP employee and a few months from retirement.
He, knowing the Fisheries Act,
And the peak flows,
And the power of a vacuum,
Made one brilliant mistake.
"Did I open the petcock?" He chuckled.
Did you see the pipe collapsed?
It was beautiful.
And the river was restored for the first time in 50 odd years.
Forevermore .
There is an old goat who fishes the Owens.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 27, 2016 - 08:50am PT
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I am however curious how they plan to keep both climbers and fishermen out during the seasonal closures.
Well, in the past all they did was put up a sign. I doubt they would do any enforcement. I guess if you go in when they say it's closed and then you get swept away in a raging torrent, that's your problem.
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Howie S
climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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Apr 27, 2016 - 10:03am PT
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"Don't bring pets to the crag, problem solved. SO STUPID. You get what you ask for."
Oh Jeff...You love my dogs...
Dogs and people on the Sierra Eastside is just the way things are, get over it. Sad incident, and just like people sometimes die in nature, so do dogs...
It's easy enough to put your dog on a leash when climbing, and then you don't worry about them, and they don't bother others.
Interesting info of the flows coming in the future, thanks Bob.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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Thanks, Bob. Interesting. A simple sign at each of the access points should take care of the problem, I would think. Some cliffs, even in high water, would still be safely accessible? I do know about high flow rates being necessary for riparian health. Overall, I'd say this is a good thing.
BAd
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 27, 2016 - 10:18am PT
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My dog is awesome at the crags. Until people show up.
So now I guess we know where the real problem lies.
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Marty Lewis
climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 27, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
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Thanks Bob Harrington for the lowdown on the flows.
Thanks Howie great comments.
I heard about this thread so I decided to take a look.
Helped me remember why I rarely go on supertopo.
When you own a dog it is part of your family and you love it as much as any human.
I just can't believe how many rude insensitive as#@&%es are posting nonsense about dogs.
If a kid died would there be a bunch of dicks spraying?
And to all you dog haters: Half the crags in this country allow dogs, half don't.
Go to the ones that don't. PLEASE. I here Yosemite is pretty sick!
Yes dogs take dumps and can be obnoxious. The same can be said for humans. Let's close the crags to humans because they take dumps and can be obnoxious.
Peace out.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 27, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
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The same can be said for crabs and Marco Rubio...
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herm
Trad climber
Bishop
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Apr 27, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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When my kids were little I was hydrophobic about them getting anywhere near whitewater. They wouldn't be in the ORG if the flows were up.
Dogs, they do what they want.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 27, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
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I guess if you go in when they say it's closed and then you get swept away in a raging torrent, that's your problem.
Raging torrent at 600 cfs <chuckle> Better get fluffy a life vest and an EPIRB.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Apr 27, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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When the penstock ruptured I remember DWP having a guard at the road off 395 keeping people out of the area. Those flows starting in 2018 should be quite impressive. Thanks Bob for the informative update.
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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Apr 28, 2016 - 09:37am PT
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cool story flip. brother worked as an engineer in the state hydro/electro arena for many years, now retired, and from what stories i've heard your LADWP event is highly plausible, those old guys knew their sh#t... i was spending a lot of time on the eastside during that time and saw the collapse, it was beautiful.
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neverenough
Trad climber
Anacortes
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May 11, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
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Sorry to hear about anyone losing their dog BUT when my sweetie and I were climbing at Necromancer wall Red Rock canyon, returning to our packs after the climb my lady was bitten after trying to pass the dog just after the owner assured us it was a friendly dog. Two weeks later at Petes Pile about 20 miles from Hood River Or. we were climbing at one area and further down were several people and 3 dogs. The dogs got into a fight and one was bitten. When one of the dog owners came by us with his dog (not on a leash) I asked if he would PLEASE hold his dog when he went past. He got all pissed off and told me his dog was FRIENDLY (where have I heard that before?) Fido really does not need to go EVERYWHERE you go!!!
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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May 11, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
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Sorry to hear about anyone losing their dog BUT when my sweetie and I were climbing at Necromancer wall Red Rock canyon, returning to our packs after the climb my lady was bitten after trying to pass the dog just after the owner assured us it was a friendly dog. Two weeks later at Petes Pile about 20 miles from Hood River Or. we were climbing at one area and further down were several people and 3 dogs. The dogs got into a fight and one was bitten. When one of the dog owners came by us with his dog (not on a leash) I asked if he would PLEASE hold his dog when he went past. He got all pissed off and told me his dog was FRIENDLY (where have I heard that before?) Fido really does not need to go EVERYWHERE you go!!!
Stellar first post.
You sound like a whiny nouchedozzle.
Welcome to the Taco.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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May 12, 2016 - 06:56am PT
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^^If Mt.Erie was your local crag, you would be bitter too.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 12, 2016 - 07:09am PT
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The water level is back down to normal FYI
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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May 12, 2016 - 07:43am PT
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Leave them at home. Dogs that is.
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WBraun
climber
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May 12, 2016 - 07:50am PT
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Someone put a leash on that rabid dog ^^^^ before it drowns
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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May 12, 2016 - 09:52am PT
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Her body language would indicate that she is assessing risk and developing a plan. Good dog.
His body language indicates he's f ucking stoked. Good dog.
Sorry punkass bitch haterz- the dog's coming with, unless actual rules prevent it.
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