Discussion Topic |
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
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The FAist said he didn't care if bolts were added. It was on some old retrobolting thread on here somewhere.
From what I remember you could do most of the runouts without your hands if you had good balance, like it was 3/4 class.
I don't have an opinion one way or another
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
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The climb has seen many ascents with the number of bolts it has now, it's not like the runouts keep the crowds away.
Just as the physical difficulty of moves have value to the quality of the climb, so does the mental difficulty.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
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I remember it being my first ever experience leading on a multi-pitch climb. Was fairly gripped on the 5.easy runouts. Don't think it is a bad idea to add a bolt in about two spots in order to at least ensure the noob leader that he is on the right route. I heard of several going off to another dike because one can't see the bolt on the left dike when starting.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY but it is also not necessary to keep the giant runout in places, on a noob route. If a few bolts are added, one will still be able to f*** themselves up in case of a fall, but at least not severely. Just my opinion.
Klass7, are you volunteering to add those bolts or are you counting on someone else doing the work??
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
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This is going to be GUD!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
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Not needed or desired in my view.
Thousands have done it without, and enjoyed it.
It's a safe route if your skills are good.
It's not a recommended route for the beginner 5.7 leader.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
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Lame.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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Not needed or desired in my view.
Thousands have done it without.
It's a safe route if your skills are good.
It's not a recommended route for the beginner 5.7 leader.
That's it. All that needs to be said.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
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IT IS NOT NECESSARY but it is also not necessary to keep the giant runout in places, on a noob route.
It was one of the first runout routes I did. A very important (and relatively safe, due to the lack of objective hazards) learning experience that helped me to get safer and faster in the mountains. I would not trade that early experience for something more tepid.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
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"It's a safe route if your skills are good."
So, who's measuring whether your skills are good? What skin is it off your nose if a few bolts are added?
I sure don't want a families sorrow on my hands because "thousands have done it."
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
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It's a fantastic route for helping people to build confidence and judgement.
It's a stepping stone to the backcountry.
Add bolts and you rob people of those benefits.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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I've done this route 20+ times, know one of the FA'st. Bolts HAVE been added, I think if you can climb 5.7, this route is very doable IF you keep yer head about you. No hard moves, no places yer gonna go for a huge whipper.....you can grab a knob or two, or three on yer way down. Please do not promote adding more bolts.....if it happens then someone else will say.."more bolts to make it safe" then it turns into a sport route. Funny enough, I've discussed with JB to go up and put the route in it's original form, he thinks it could have used a "bolt or two", they just didn't have them one, the FA and didn't know what they would need for the rest of the route. It's a classic. Nyou want runout, go climb some old school Tuolumne routes...Snake Dike won't seem so bad. Respect the FA.
Peace
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Highgloss
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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I think the enticement of extra bolts may draw some even less experience people to try it and possibly lead to more accidents unless sufficiently bolted...let it be. Half the fun of the route is the run outs, i'm sure no one heads up there for the stellar 5.7 friction...
There is plenty of granite in the sierras to put up another 5.7 endless slab route with a billion bolts.
Now Calaveras Dome on the other hand has some real runouts that need bolts!!!! 1 bolt 5.9 friction pitches that really make the balls drop...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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Of
Course
Not
!!
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Feb 24, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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lame(ification)at its finest
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
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No. Done the route, first time cordless, second time with a rope. Don't add bolts to existing routes. When the climbing is that easy, bolts are hardly justifiable anyway. Get better at the sport, and learn to be bold safely. Don't bring the rock, a non-renewable resource, down to the level of the novice. Bring the level of the novice up. Imo climbing is a sport and not a consumable product.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:12pm PT
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Anybody who needs more bolts on the 5.2 dinosaur spine I expect couldn't get past the gate-keeper gear-protected 5.7 traverse on the very first pitch.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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1st pitch goes straight up to the "roof" don't it?
Peace
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
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1st pitch goes straight up to the "roof" don't it? P1 roof is dark grey just right of center.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
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There is a old saying, if you can't take the heat then keep out of the kitchen. I think it applies in this case. Since you are into bolting, why not go and put up your own route up Half Dome? But leave Snake Dike alone. Its a classic for a reason.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
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Skipping bolts ain't the same as not having the option. What a ridiculous statement.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
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The "dinosaur spine" section is cruiser but the lack of pro just makes you stay mentally present and pay attention to what you are doing. That seems healthy to me, a good introduction to the genre of DFU climbing where almost everyone can do it without F-ups. Definitely no burden for a climber who can lead to the spine in the first place.
I can see a scenario of a stronger partner leading the bottom pitches and then handing the lead over to "junior" at the spine, and "junior" isn't ready for the sharp end. But then, that's just a problem of junior not being ready for the sharp end.
I probably risk myself more with my route-finding choices on the last bits of the approach hike than on the spine of the climb. Maybe add some bolts on the south-facing slab or the west-facing boulders below the base of the climb?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
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we shouldn't try to take all the danger out of climbing. Yet it is quite possible to have a serious fall on the dike
Do you know exactly are you saying here?
A) we shouldn't take the danger out of climbing
B) but there shouldn't be any serious falls?
I mean seriously - like WTF - which is it, A or B?
You're clearly suggesting we should take the danger out of climbing, so whats with the noise in the preamble suggesting otherwise?
Wringing the danger out of climbing is all the rage these days now that the demographic has burgeoned to include the terminally bored and those in dire need of another riskless entertainment alternative to going to the mall.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
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Klass, if your suggestion were followed, what would be the progression for folks to test themselves and see if they are ready to explore more serious adventures?
It's like giving kids hand-sanitizer whenever they touch dirt, then they get allergies and sick every time they interact with the real world.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
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Let me tele it first
The new bolts might not be completely covered with snow
and I would hate to have a NEW bolt take me down
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
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...to explore more serious adventures
There wouldn't be any more serious adventures...
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
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Klass 7 you say "shouldn't your standards apply to everyone", yet you seem to want people agree with your standard. This is a classic, tons of people have done it......don't know the stats but people have pitched off the cables, should we make that less steep, have escorts, require people to Via Farra it? Enough info is out there and IF you look in the guide book you should know if yer not comfy on runout 5.7, train more, get confident then go do it. Pretty sure some of those knobs could be slung to shorten the runout. Sometimes ya gotta just think.
Peace
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
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I did the route by the moon. At one of the belays, I casually asked my partner if she had ever simul-climbed. "No," she said, and stated that she never wanted to.
I ran up the next pitch and passed a couple of bolts a hundred feet (or so) up. I kept going, until I heard "10 feet!"
Ha, she got in her first simul!
I suppose that if you jumped off that route you'd fall. But otherwise, it'd take a pretty mean trick.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
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Klass, are you serious about the question? Or serious about the proposition? Are you serious about following up on the proposition?
I mean, are we just noodling the principles, with Snake Dike as a possible example, or do you want to drive more noob traffic up there then there already is?
We'll noodle the arguments, but I'd put money against anyone actually willing to go up there and drill based on what a Supertopo thread puts together for the various reasons stated above and more.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
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Oh god, what is it with otherwise intelligent ST regulars and trolls? This new avatar with 0 posts appears out of nowhere with an absurd proposition and people immediately legitimize the troll with their responses. When the troll gives up a real name (after all, his/her/it's Valley history goes back to "1972"), well, sure, then I'll respond with a thoughtful suggestion to sober up.
Otherwise,
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
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Klass: Go bowling.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Feb 24, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
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American F*#king Legend beat me to the observation.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
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The progression could be that they wouldn't have to clip the bolts.
Ah, figured the 'just don't clip them' nonsense would show up sooner or later.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
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Or they could go off and take the challenge of doing another climb
Let's just turn that around. Climbers who desire more safety can seek out less challenge by doing another climb. Plenty of grid-bolted spots.
But there is a nugget of something interesting here... where are the USA routes with 5, 10, 20+ pitches of very safe climbing where it might be hard but you never fall more than a body-length? It seems that if you want to get high off the ground and enjoy the view and a big day of effort, you also must take this with the mandatory safety risks. Some people are just not wired to see that as an important or valuable part of climbing, even though many or most of us do. In Europe I think they have the option to do hard big routes in a safe way with the comforts of a Refugio waiting for you. That's missing in America. Personally, I'm fine that it's missing here.
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Highgloss
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
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Maybe you should add bolts to the cables since lots of people think that route is scary too.
We could also get a permit system going for SD to keep noobs off it :)
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
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Its most likely Suprema trying to stir up controversy again.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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I say chop steps in the f'er.
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couchmaster
climber
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
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klass7 asked, quote "It's time to discuss adding two bolts per pitch along the dike"
NO
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Heloise Pendagrast
Trad climber
Tahoe City
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Feb 24, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
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NO EFFING WAY! What is WRONG with people? I do love the adding snakes idea, though...
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John M
climber
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
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The progression could be that they wouldn't have to clip the bolts.
This does not work. Here is why.
A bolt takes the risk away and gives an out. Just not clipping adds a little risk, but knowing that it is there means if you get scared, then you can retreat to that now closer bolt. Which lowers the risk and thus the mental challenge. Without the bolt, then you have to know that you can do it before you leave that anchor that you are at. Part of the challenge and the thrill is doing something dangerous without an easy out.
Some people want that challenge. They do things like trips into the wildest places where there is no easy way out. They seek that. Please don't create a safety net everywhere.
If the challenge is too great. Then either increase your skills and your mental game, or find something else to do. I say go for it, and while I morn those who die young, I celebrate their courage. Which is why to my friends who like the more dangerous things, I say please be wise in how and what you do, but I also say if you have weighed the risk and are in touch with your abilities, then go for it.
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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This is a really, really, bad idea and a very, very slippery slope.
who advocating for this and why?
It will be the same thing-the guides, gear reps, guide book authors, route setters, and various other "climbing professionals" are going to now bitch about the crowds on ST right after they cash their check.
The same level of climber, barley 5.7......that's right..... think about the dude you see on 5.7 sport routes at your local crag, the guy with the walky-talky and 8 cordelets and 10 self rescue locking binners (just in case) who's is also going to need to bivy at the base and/or the TOP!! and totally thrash an already beaten down area with 4 first timers from the office who wanna climb half dome
too..
grow a pair.....
Lame.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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No way, never! Leave it be. It's 5. Freakin 7 for crying out loud. Sack up and respect the stone. We don't have to make everything so pedestrian.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
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You want it safe, stay in the gym where you belong. Leave some adventure out there for those who seek it out and let the masses stay safe with their lack of commitment.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
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Biter ol'.....right on!
Peace
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Ryan K
climber
the valley
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
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What do I think? I think any bolts you add will be removed. Don't waste your time.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 24, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
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If you can't face snake dike then you go up the other side.
Clip in all the way on the cables ......
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lucho
Trad climber
California
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
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Dude.. Leave the route alone. What gives you the right to even ask this question. Did YOU do the first ascent? No. Theres your answer. DO NOT ADD BOLTS to any existing climb. That climbing 101. You say you've been climbing for a long time. You should've known this by now.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
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Slippery slope (no pun intended).
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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There are some routes out there that might deserve this discussion but not Snake Dike...
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
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a lot better to bolt a super easy climb than a tough classic,
beginners need bolts the most, right?
what if it rains? might want an easy way down,
tough guys don't climb that route anyway so they can enforce their ego somewhere else, right?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
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But I want an escalator!!!
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
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then hang out at the gym.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
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Why not a ladder or two.
How about chopping in steps.
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ryankelly
Trad climber
Bhumi
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
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the Taco needed this injection of trolling, good job OP for stirring the pot. Now just watch it bubble
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Feb 24, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
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They call it Snake Hike for a reason.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Feb 24, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
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Sling a chicken head, or two or ten.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Feb 25, 2016 - 03:59am PT
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If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.
Why not just put a cable car there instead?
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Feb 25, 2016 - 04:52am PT
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This is a significant route with an international stature (despite the modest grade!)
As it is it's a benchmark route for many. It does not need dumbing down, and the idea
that you can 'ignore' any retro bolts if you want is rubbish! Leave it as it is, it's fine.
Steve
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 25, 2016 - 07:18am PT
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the idea that you can 'ignore' any retro bolts if you want is rubbish!
Exactly, the fact that the OP even suggested this is proof that he lacks sufficient experience to add bolts to classic routes.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Feb 25, 2016 - 07:27am PT
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What is ridiculous is the attempted troll
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Feb 25, 2016 - 07:28am PT
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Not a good idea...with more bolts how would one train for the B-&-Y?
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Feb 25, 2016 - 07:29am PT
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Stupid ideas like this make me want to catch a flight to California and fight Burchey.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Feb 25, 2016 - 07:34am PT
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After careful consideration: Keep it spicy.
By the logic of adding bolts for safety you could put in a 1/2" SS every 8 feet. How tedious.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Feb 25, 2016 - 09:12am PT
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What Clint said 11 posts in. The. End.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Feb 25, 2016 - 11:48am PT
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I was thinking troll too but the OP has a handful of posts going back about a year with pictures of BITD climbing. Either a long con for a troll or more disturbingly a climber with 45 years experience not getting why retro bolting is a bad idea. Maybe it's Eric Sloan's father?
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Feb 25, 2016 - 11:50am PT
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The troll is in the intent not the identity
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| Messages 1 - 65 of total 65 in this topic |
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