Discussion Topic |
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 25, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
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I've got a friendly debate going with friends who also like walking too far to climb and play.
What's the furthest you can get from the road (dirt or otherwise), on a straight line, in California?
My bet it Simpson Meadow on the Middle Fork of the Kings River.
If I still had access to ArcGIS it would be a pretty easy question to answer, but all I've got are maps, and a teeny tiny brain, and access to a forum full of weirdos.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
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Glacier Ridge and Whaleback come to mind. Those were my friend's last SPS peaks, which according to him were few of the most remote peaks in the range to climb. Went along with him to climb and celebrate the finish. The hike was 24 miles from the trailhead one way. Beautiful area. Hiking past a cool dome called the Sugraloaf. Deadman canyon and Cloud Canyons are deep in there fer sure!!
Would be incredible to check it out in winter...
Cool spires on the way to Glacier Ridge too..
photo from summitpost
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
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Vitaliy, make that picture a little bigger, I only had to scroll sideways like 3 times to see it.
Actually, that area is more remote than I though, about 11 miles on a line from road's end as well as Lodgepole parking. Simpson Meadow is 12 or 13 so it still has it beat, barely.
Edit: darn it, you made the picture smaller so now I look the fool
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
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My guess would be in the desert somewhere.
Those places look cooler though.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
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Someplace in NE California, east of Alturas.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
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There is an old thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1285047/California-geography-puzzler
Seems to be two spots:
Macomb Ridge in far northern Yosemite that is 13 miles from the roads at Leavitt Lake, Mono Village, Harden Lake (White Wolf) and Hetch Hetchy Dam.
Tunemah Peak on the White Divide that is about 13.5 miles from South Lake, Wishon Reservoir and the Kings Canyon Road.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
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How far of a hike is it from the closest TH though? The question is what is the longest approach via a trail to a particular spot right? Or if you had a straight line from the closest TH?
Also, the whole Erikson Crags area is fairly far if you are hiking in from the closest TH. And Gardiner/Clarence king are not close, although not super far, unless you want to get to the north side of the formation.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
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It could be in Northern Yosemite, somewhere near Wilma Lake, Tilden Lake, or Stubblefied Canyon. Simpson sure is out there, though.
edit: Macomb Ridge area. There's a road that goes nearly to the summit of Spanish Mountain.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
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How far of a hike is it from the closest TH though?
That's going to be a hard one to answer since most of these places aren't serviced by a trail. It is "possible" to go anywhere traveling in roughly a straight line although it generally won't be the easiest or quickest way.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
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It's not the Ionian Basin? You feel like you are really out there in this place at least. Although the Southern Sierra does have some really cool and tough to get to areas...
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Hubbard
climber
San Diego
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Jan 25, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
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It is deep in the brush of Mount Woodson.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
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^^^^^^rumors abound that You have been busy.....
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Urizen
Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
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It's not as easy to measure objectively as distance is, but there certainly are places that are more remote in terms of time and effort, even if they don't appear to be so on a map. It's not a long hard trip to get up onto the Kern-Kaweah Divide at the head of the Glacier Ridge. Not nearly as long and hard as, say, the Devil's Crags--or Simpson Meadows for that matter.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
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I was thinking somewhere are The Whaleback as well, or maybe around Mt. Harrison. Muro Blanco in Kings Canyon. Dumbbell Lakes. Several candidates really.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 25, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
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I hiked from the top of Mt. Whitney to Mineral King cross country once back in the late 60's.
Very remote.
Got lost for a while too.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jan 25, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
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The most remote spot in California is the summit of Devil's Crag #1.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
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Thanks Banquo, I'll have to look through that thread and do some Google Earth measuring when I get home to satisfy my curiosity but those sound like good possibilities.
I got this from the USGS. Not enough detail to really get good info but fun to look at anyway. Basically darker green is further from the nearest road.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 25, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
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the greyhound station in Merced.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
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Just thinking of distance from the nearest road, no other specifications. NE California has a lot of dirt roads so there really aren't many places all that far from your car.
Check out the map I posted on the first page, Id say southern or central Sierra is gonna hold the answer. And Banquo likely already answered it.
As far as remoteness based on trail length or time of approach, I'd say halfway up some remote wall or in the back of a deep cave will probably be the most "remote" place in CA :)
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Jan 25, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
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Pretty sure it's near the tail end of the White Divide so Tunemah Peak sounds plausible. A few years back when a buddy and I scrambled up to the unnamed lake around 10,900 feet in the cirque north of Tunemah we thought we worked out that there weren't any other decent-sized lakes in the Sierra as far from a road in every direction.
The trio of high lakes northeast of Windy Cliff and west of Dumbbell Lakes felt as remote to me as anyplace I've been in California, but the straight-line distance to a road on the east side would be less than 12 miles or so.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 25, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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I don't think I understand the question, but isn't the point you're looking for in the Mojave Desert or east of the Salton Sea?
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Jan 25, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
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Uhhh....Lembert Dome?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 25, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
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Seems like you could get pretty far out there on the Modoc.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jan 25, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
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Apple Valley...
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 25, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
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The desert has roads all over the place.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jan 25, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
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The "Calabama" northeastern corner?
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Jan 25, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
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Bellied up at Trout's with a Coors waiting for Merle
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 25, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
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I agree with Urizen. "Most remote" can be defined by different criteria. Hiking 13 miles on a trail is a lot different than a 5-mile off-trail scramble over the 13,000-foot Sierra crest with a heavy pack.
My guess is the most remote (by any criteria) somewhere in the Kings-Kern Divide area. It's brutal getting out there.
The Ionian Basin is pretty remote, but you can get there in one day.
The Enchanted Gorge also pretty remote, but it's not the most remote
Goddard Canyon feels more remote than the Enchanted Gorge. Does anyone know for sure?
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
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Nice! Enchanted Gorge, on the to-do list
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jan 25, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
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In modern terms "remote" has nothing to do with roads, trails or that ilk. It has to do with the likelihood of getting cell phone coverage.
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jan 25, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jan 25, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
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Guess?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 25, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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Walker Pass and Courtright...
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jan 25, 2016 - 10:18pm PT
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Kris, yes on Courtright.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Jan 26, 2016 - 06:35am PT
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Milestone Basin.
Camped in the basin you are at the base of Milestone, Midway, Table, and Thunder Mountains. The route up Thunder is old school 4th class with rappel bolts on top. After that downclimb I went to Yosemite Valley and took my first rock climbing class:-)
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kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 06:47am PT
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I think that limpingcrab's map is shaded based on road density (miles of road per square mile), not on distance to the nearest road, which are two very different things. For instance, I-80 runs right through the middle of the big dark green patch on the Utah/Nevada border, so not many roads, but you'd never be far from an interstate.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 08:32am PT
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My vote is for the Enchanted Gorge. Tried to walk up it once and had to backtrack to Goddard Canyon to get to Ionian Basin-lars
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 08:42am PT
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^^^^^yea, that's the spot in my mind. Enchanted gorge at the southern end of the Ionian Basin.
Rough getting in and rough getting out.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 08:46am PT
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Here's the abstract for the map I posted on the first page, taken from
http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/fs20053011
The USGS Geographic Analysis and Monitoring (GAM) program has developed a national, high resolution dataset that gives the distance to the nearest road every 30 meters across the conterminous 48 states. This work provides the first unified national picture of roadless space, vehicular accessibility, and intensity of road construction.
The new dataset is the first member of the National Overview Road Metrics (NORM) family of road related indicators. This indicator measures straight-line or Euclidean distance (ED) to the nearest road, and is given the compound name NORM ED. NORM ED data can be viewed and downloaded from the transportation section of the web viewer for The National Map, http://nationalmap.usgs.gov. The full-resolution dataset for the conterminous states is made of 8.7 billion values.
And here's the full extent, not zoomed in on CA,
Despite what it says I haven't been able to figure out how to view and download the NORM ED data from their website, just the road layer data.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jan 26, 2016 - 08:50am PT
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looking at map, wyoming and frank church in idaho have much more area to wander in.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 08:56am PT
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Finally read all the way through your thread, Banquo. So if Tunemah Peak is the most remote then I guess I wasn't that far off.
I don't count the ferry on Florence Reservoir as a road though
And it looks like you found the original data source, I'll have to play with that tonight. I used to be quite familiar with GIS but it's been a while.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:24am PT
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The most remote place I've personally been to is Rockbound Lake.
I don't equate remoteness to proximity of roads, rather to proximity of people and I'd say the Mojave somewhere.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:48am PT
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I would like to see "remote" interpreted from a few perspectives:
1. Time on foot to nearest cell phone reception or land line.
2. Time by motorized vehicle (4wd/off-road motorcycle mandatory) to nearest cell phone reception or land line
3. Time by motorized vehicle (standard 2wd low clearance passenger vehicle) to nearest cell phone reception or land line.
5. Time by boat from island to nearest cell phone or coast guard reception.
With these criteria, we can build up interesting to-do lists within our individual means :)
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:50am PT
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I'm going to spend most of my vacations collecting data and I will provide periodic updates in the form of trip reports!
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:03am PT
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The following three maps all have red boxes that show areas that are at least 20.5km from the nearest road. Measurements are done using Euclidean distance, or as the crow flies. The second map has the single furthest pixel, so it is probably the most remote place in the Sierra by this method. This analysis was done using TIGER roads.
This map has the red box shown at 20km. This is a close fourth place runner up.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:23am PT
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Here you go for the single furthest point by my calculations. 21071m from the nearest road. Convienently it looks like a rad place to set up a tent!!! Someone go there now! Coordinates are in NAD83
Here's a shot of what it would look like on your spring Trans-Sierra. Probably the recommended way to go.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:26am PT
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I've been over Colby Pass, but I didn't go into the Milestone Bowl. Damn it. Guess I have to go back. It is a really awesome area, and it does feel really remote.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:33am PT
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The source for the original files seems to be gone in the link I provided in the earlier thread. I have them on my computer but can't open them. File extension is .gri and I am not familiar with it.
Franky,
Looking at the Stubblefield Canyon map, I get just under 20 km from the Harden Lake trailhead out of White Wolf.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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I used to spend a lot of time looking at Bob's trip reports for inspiration. Thanks for posting that.
I went back there on a Lodgepole to Crescent Meadow fastpacking mission, Via Sugarloaf Valley, Cloud Canyon, Colby Pass, Kaweah Basin, Chagoopa, Big Arroyo, and Kaweah Gap. Probably still the best mountain hiking trip of my life.
I was working down by Three Rivers and was feeling pretty fit from running out to Pear Lake once a week for most of the summer. I carried two pre-made sandwiches from Sierra Subs in Three Rivers. I ate them at my low points. They tasted so incredible that I'm pretty sure I cried when I ate them.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:44am PT
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#remote
#nature
#getawayfromitall
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:50am PT
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Franky,
Looking at the Stubblefield Canyon map, I get just under 20 km from the Harden Lake trailhead out of White Wolf.
Yeah. I used an off-the-shelf road data layer to do the calculation. here is a photo of where it showed that road ending (Red Line). From the end of that red line, to the south side of the red box, I get 20.5.
There is certainly some uncertainty in these measurements.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:06am PT
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By the way, by a quick visual inspection, nothing in the Mohave comes close. So I'll go ahead and say the previous analysis holds true for the entire state of California.
EDIT!!!
Shit! The Census had the trail up to Bishop Pass labeled as a road! Revised analysis pending. Simpson Meadow might get a big boast from this.
Well... The Tunemah zone turns out to be furthest from a road by a hair after correcting the data.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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Watch out on those desert roads, wherever they are.
SINCE 2007, MORE MARINES FROM THE TWENTYNINE PALMS MARINE BASE HAVE DIED BACK HOME THAN IN THE WAR-TORN MIDDLE EAST
http://palm.mydesert.com/2014marines/
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jan 26, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
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Skied through it on skinny tele skis at 20. Epic. Clueless is a fun place to be sometimes.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
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You're the man, Franky!
Awaiting the final verdict, I want to get a GPS waypoint and see if I can car to car day hike to the most remote spot in the state this summer.
Bonus points if you discover it's on a nice trail :)
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
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The two points are so close that I wouldn't be comfortable saying which one is further from a road. Thus, to claim you've been there you have to go to both. Here are the coordinates for them in WGS84 which is what GPS devices default to.
Tunemah point (Approx 21124m from road): -118.70208 36.995476
Milestone Bowl point (21071m from road: -118.478895 36.61802
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
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Hahaha! Crap!
I wish I had this info a long time ago since I have been close to both of those spots. Back when I spent time with GIS I did lots of pointless projects and never thought of this one. On a side note, the best calculated winter trans Sierra route out of Lodgepole using half a dozen parameters for avalanche danger and ease of travel is almost exactly the route people usually take. That was an entertaining little side project I almost published just for fun.
Thanks Franky! My feet are going to hate you though!
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
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Sounds like a cool analysis on the trans sierra. You're feet might hate me, but your brain will be pleased.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
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46381m. Roads end is almost right in the middle.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
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It would be cool to overlay a GIS layer that estimates cost or difficulty to traverse each quad/hex cell. As a first pass, try to figure out the "average steepness" of each cell. Perhaps look for maximum statistical variation in altitude from point samples within each cell.
Then the cells could be analyzed in terms of a least-cost path to a road, rather than just "as the crow flies" straight line. One of the interesting challenges of this project would be to determine an optimal cell size for this calculation, to better reflect the real-world difficulty of traversing the cell.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
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43m difference between the two, pretty crazy that it came down to that.
I talked to my "death hike" partners (we try to do one each summer). They said we have to do both. Poop.
Edit: at least we won't have to swim to the middle of a lake
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
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Someone plan out the best route to bag both in a day, shuttle allowed. It might not be beyond the realm of someone who is really into suffering.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 26, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
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So, based on your data, what is the most remote point in Tilden Lake, Macomb Ridge area? It's around 20 km.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
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Nutagain, that wouldn't be tough to do. just need to download the Digital Elevation Models which are free. I don't think Vegetation would play much of a role in the High Sierra, but people will often include that data in such a calculation as well. One difficulty in considering slope is that direction of travel matters (uphill or downhill) but that is harder to model.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 26, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
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Nice to see dark green around Big Sur.
I wonder what is the farthest you can get from flight paths. I remember being in JTree after 9/11, and the skies were so quiet. It didn't last long, and when the flights resumed, it was a stark contrast.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
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Banquo, this should answer things. It has the mining road above Leavitt Lake as the nearest road for the region you're talking about, another one where the data might not be great.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 26, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
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I talked to my "death hike" partners (we try to do one each summer). They said we have to do both. Poop.
People that do not climb at the Cookie Cliff...
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
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It would be cool to overlay a GIS layer that estimates cost or difficulty to traverse each quad/hex cell. As a first pass, try to figure out the "average steepness" of each cell. Perhaps look for maximum statistical variation in altitude from point samples within each cell.
Then the cells could be analyzed in terms of a least-cost path to a road, rather than just "as the crow flies" straight line. One of the interesting challenges of this project would be to determine an optimal cell size for this calculation, to better reflect the real-world difficulty of traversing the cell.
I used something like that when calculating a winter trans sierra route, it's not too difficult with GIS software.
I wonder how you could set it up to find that most difficult place, by its easiest path, to get to in the state. That would take a lot of calculating but if you had a big computer that could sit for a while it should be possible.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
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I think the primary stuff you need to consider are slope and vegetation. I think the best method to consider slope is to use raster math to apply some function of cost vs slope. Arc simply considers the extra distance traveled due to the slope, it'd be better to use a function that takes into account the extra difficulty too, maybe quadratic instead of linear. You would have to use an iterative method to penalize uphill travel after the first pass raster was made (by using the backlink raster), eventually converging on some answer. I think the iteration would be worth it since we all know how much easier downhill travel is than up. To do this type of analysis at sufficient resolution for the whole state would take awhile. you'd have to come up with a reasonable cost that could be tied to vegetation classes, that would also take some dedicated work by an analyst.
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missjr
Trad climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
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This is the furthest point from any road in California, Tunemah Lake. It sits nicely above the Middle Fork of the Kings River and the Goddard Creek drainage. Not an easy walk to get there from anywhere. I believe its 32miles from South Lake out of Bishop and somewhere close to 25 from the West.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
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Franky, give chaparral a value of 1,000,000 in the calculations for difficulty traveling through vegetation types. For reference, give an uphill slope of 45 degrees a value of 7.
Edit: one of the few and proud, missjr! But, did you stand on -118.70208 36.995476?
Definitely fills the "remoteness" bill.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
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Depends on what you're using.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
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Franky, thanks for posting up the Wilma-Stubblefield map. The spot I put on my handy park map is right about at the "K" in the word "Kerrick." A place I once passed BITD. More remote feeling near there is the area called Bear Valley in the headwaters of Breeze Creek.
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missjr
Trad climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
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This is closer to the pinpoint on Limpingcrab's map.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
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25 miles from a road? BwaHaHaHaHa! I had to walk that far to my mailbox in Alaska!
Across this:
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Jan 26, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
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Awesome thread!
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
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Trail near "the most remote spot" in Yosemite.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 26, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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cool photos of these remote places.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 26, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
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Here is the same image I posted in the earlier thread but in color. I have the data files but do not have the software and knowledge to present it better. You can figure out the geography a little bit if you study it.
I propose the longest, remotest trip in California. Simply follow the light blue spine of the Sierra running up the map.
I put what files I have in a .zip folder. It's very big. 1.2 GB here:
http://dammerr.com/Dist_To_Roads/
I really don't know what all the files are.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 26, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
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This is real close to Franky's "most remote" spot - within a couple hundred yards - Milestone Basin
Tunemah Lake is above the confluence of the Disappearing Creek and Goddard Creek - the terminus of the Enchanted Gorge.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
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I don't have any other maps and don't recall how I made that one. The data is in the files I gave a link to but it will take somebody with GIS software and knowledge to use it. A few years ago I did find some open source software and get it to work but have not kept up with it.
The USGS publication is about the best you can get:
https://www.fort.usgs.gov/sites/default/files/products/publications/21426/21426.pdf
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Jan 26, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
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Over here! Pick me! Pick me!
As though there weren't already enough of those dumb geocaches littering the landscape. No need to give them ideas.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
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I'm gonna put a flag with a rigister there, full of pictures of mighty hiker
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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still cant figure out the names of these 2 CHUNKS of stone any Guess?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 26, 2016 - 10:53pm PT
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The Farallons are out there.
I don't know how I'd access them. Probably can't get there from here.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 27, 2016 - 06:52am PT
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I don't know. since you can drive a boat to them it doesn't feel like a contender to me.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 07:46am PT
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I guess technically they win.
So now I have to try to walk there, car to car, in a day
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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Santa Barbara Island is 38 miles off shore.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 27, 2016 - 08:28am PT
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With all this footin' and totin' going on does anyone want to take a shot at throwing Baja California into the mix?
Walk a mile in Father Serra's shoes.
San Ignacio to Santa Rosalia on the east coast is roughly 76km.
So how about starting at El Placer and heading southeast? That would be in the large punta below Isla Natividad.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 27, 2016 - 08:36am PT
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Pretty sure San Nicolas would trump the Farallons by distance, but they have a military installation out there so it's not in the spirit of the wilds we are after.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 10:35am PT
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But does San Nicholas have roads on it, Nut!?!?!?!?!?!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 10:38am PT
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Looks like Bob Burd walked almost right over the most remote (non-island) point in CA when he dayhiked Tunemah Peak.
It took him 20.5 hours and he's an animal. It'll be tough to do in a day even without going up to the peak.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
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Chopper easy access to those Sierra locations.
Outside of rescue operations I don't think choppers are allowed in wilderness areas.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 29, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
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Update:
I had a suspicion that Sequioa/Kings might have already done an analysis like we have been discussing. They have. you can see the larger document it is a part of here.
http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_other/rmrs_2014_tricker_j001.pdf
It is an interesting document if you have the time to look at it. There is a part that is concerned with mapping travel time in the parks. They use slope and vegetation class, consider the difficulty of creek crossings, and don't allow travel on things that are too steep (unfortunately, i think they considered too steep to be 40 degrees. haha!!).
I couldn't find a place to download the actual data, so I put it over a basemap, and made it transparent so we could guess at what the most remote spots are. Here are the results.
Here are some zoom ins of the longest to get to areas.
I don't have the actual data, so ya'll will just have to look at the photos a guess which spot you think is the darkest blue.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 29, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
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If you put any faith in their analysis, it looks to me like Devils Crags might be the most remote place in The Sierra, without the data it is hard to tell if it is more remote than Milestone Mountain/Plateau though.
Also, This is what happens to you if you move to South Dakota after spending a lot of time in the Sierra. You try to get your fix by looking at maps.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Jan 29, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
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My sense is that Picket Guard and the basin east of the Kaweahs are much harder to reach than Devil's Crags. When possible "easiest approaches" include a trip over Cleaver Col into Wallace Creek, and the classic combo of Glacier and Hands-and-Knees Passes, you know you're in for a world of hurt.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Jan 29, 2016 - 10:02pm PT
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I agree with you that Devils Crags doesn't seem that bad compared to the stuff further south. It could be an artifact due to their relatively low slope cut off for travel.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jan 29, 2016 - 10:06pm PT
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This is how to walk to the islands.
Get a quality model, with a good ventilation system.
Avoid windy days.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
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Cool, Franky, thanks! I must suck at Googling because I've looked around and never saw that. Looks like some logical parameters without them spending too much time getting picky.
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sowr
Trad climber
CA
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Great thread - Franky's original Milestone Basin point is more or less on the Sierra High Route ski tour, in fact that's about where your third camp would be coming from the Owen's Valley - have to remember that when I'm there next!
I've climbed Whaleback from the west and can testify that it's a long hike.
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jpdreamer
Trad climber
St. Louis
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Some google maps distance measuring suggests Santa Barbara Island beats the Farallones handily - the closest road to Santa Barbara Island is an access road to a cove near the western tip of Catalina Island - from there it's ~26.25mi to the northwest tip, labeled Webster Point, with the roads on the naval base at San Nicolas Island ever further away, at over 28mi. By contrast, even the southern tip of South Farallon is only 20.8mi from the Point Reyes Lifeboat Station parking lot near Chimney Rock trailhead parking.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Remote is more than just linear horizontal distance, that's why Devil's Crag #1 is the most remote spot.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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If accessibility is the measure, Devil's Crag #1 is a contender. I'd argue that the pit at the confluence of Return Creek and Regulation Creek is also a contender. All here who have been there, please chime in, by all means!
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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sowr, Cloud Canyon in general is really cool. I was back there via the Twin Lakes Trailhead and then through Sugarloaf Valley. I think in terms of below treeline areas in Sequoia/Kings, Sugarloaf Valley and its extensions are probably my favorites. Cool photo of the Whaleback.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Thankful these fine places remain so remote still!
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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TMJesse, I definitely have a SEKI bias. I hope to get into that Yosemite backcountry sometime soon.
One area nobody has been talking about is down where the Kern River intersects the Sequoia NP Southern Boundary, by the Kern River Ranger Station. By my analysis that zone is really far from a road. The ranger station does take away from the remoteness I suppose, and all the stock use in Golden Trout. Still worth visiting if you are avoiding civilization.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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it is illegal to use "Remote" and "California" in the same sentence,
that law started back in 1949,
besides, remote is a frame of mind, you can feel remote in a room full of people, or feel connected while solo hiking in the Saline Valley,
but i would say the black rock desert, or that bird refuge that got broken into by those redneck hippies,
your still gonna see con trails in the back country,
most remote place is actually at the bottom of a vertical mine shaft which is located 10 miles west of New Idria, last known home of Juan Murietta,
only thing that makes it down there is murder victims and positively charged muons,
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Have all of the Devils Crags been traversed in a push? Looks uber chossy, but beautiful.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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I've skied the Sierra High Route (Onion Valley to Wolverton) twice and that photo of Milestone Col brings back a feeling of remoteness.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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A Devil's Crags traverse? Holy smoke! My money would be on no, nobody has done that.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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I've thought about trying a Devil's Crags traverse. According to Secor, it's 4th or low 5th class with one rappel, which probably means low 5th without rappels, but it's also a scary pile of awful rock. I doubt anyone has tried it.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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The most remote I have ever felt but the actually being the closest to civilization was kayaking Sespe Creek. As the crow fly's you are probably never more than 5 miles away from a road but because the gorge is so deep and difficult you feel like you are on the moon.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Black Kaweah summit is about as remote as I've been. Doing a traverse of the Kaweahs, or skiing around east of there would be amazing. Retirement plans, or at least post kids grown plans, or maybe late teens family vacation?
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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interesting topic. Sounds like many have used more scientific methods then I did in 2011. Took the USGS DNR map, then used dividers to "pinpoint" the location distance to nearest road. I came up with this point a bit NE of Tunemah Pk. Felt remote enough, 5000' ski descent too!
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Radical!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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When I lived at Capitol Reef National Park in Utah, the park was notorious for it's isolation from civilization and associated services-- it was just about a 180 mile round trip to the nearest grocery store in Richfield. The nearest actual city with stuff like shopping, good doctors and a real hospital with a Level One trauma center was a 500 mile round trip to Salt Lake City (Provo, slightly closer, does not make the cut). It was wonderful, knowing you were living in such a remote outpost. The clarity of the air and the incredible night sky. The natural quiet. Such a place to be alive...
Roads all around, but civilization and other people, not so much. When we bought a home in Torrey, the population was about ~120 people.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Juaquin Murrieta
The gut of the GOD must be on this list. Is there a recorded descent?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Felt remote enough, 5000' ski descent too Show off
(:
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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5k ski descent in the middle of nowhere, sweet!
Capitol Reef is a special place. I only drove through a tiny bit of it once so far as part of a loop through Utah, and I look forward to making enough time some day to wander aimlessly for a week or more in the backcountry there.
But seriously, this is about California! What we need to find is a 2 mile deep cave with a 20 mile walking approach, and mandatory scuba with custom gear to get through submerged sulfuric acid sections. And then a 1000 foot free-hanging rap through acid fog wondering how long the ropes will last. Plus an ancient tribe of Old Religion clerics sworn to defend the entrance at any cost.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Another view looking down the Enchanted Gorge
The Tunemah Peak area is out of sight to the right
I think the peak in the far distance is Goat Mountain. Can anyone confirm that?
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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That's a great photo.
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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That's familiar Ledge Rat
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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That's two great photos.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Holy crap, dit, that's awesome
That's totally ballsy going up the E.G. in winter. Where do you think that big snowpack in the bottom of the Gorge came from?
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Barbarian
climber
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Felt remote enough, 5000' ski descent too!
If the most "road remote" place is in the Sierra, I'm sure Dit has been there.
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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Where do you think that big snowpack in the bottom of the Gorge came from?
LOL! Well ya. We weren't really expecting to get benighted in a 12" storm. We hunkered down in a spot sans debris cones and hoped for the best. Every time we woke to a muffled roar; "jet or slide?" It was a bit of a "Ruth Gorge" scene.
But it was pretty scenic
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Frickin' awesome, jditt!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2016 - 09:29am PT
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Dit, are you John Dittli?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Tarnation! Good sh#t Dit
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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Mar 14, 2016 - 10:15am PT
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I ended up east of Tunemah Peak when I calculated it. Franky did you include the gated road SW of Hoffman Mtn? That's what pushed the location east.
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