Discussion Topic |
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:09am PT
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I hate to tell you ..... this is stupid and your queries are biased from the start.
And those are my thoughts ..........
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:18am PT
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hahaha! right on Werner... you dirtbag!
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 12:22am PT
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Thanks for your positive, enlightened remark. Do you even know what 'biased' means?
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Mtnfreak
Mountain climber
Bellingham, WA / Bishop, CA
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:38am PT
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What is your opinion on dirtbags? If you hate them, tell me why.
This automatically requests a more precise response if you have a negative response to the term "Dirtbag". To layman like myself, that creates a bias.
Were you once a DB who's been reformed?
Using the term "reformed" in modern American society implies that the person in question had some sort of deviance. Again, this creates a bias in the question, and generates a different positive versus negative response.
If so, what changes have you made willingly or otherwise to digress from being a Lifer DB?
I found this question to be very interesting - the previous two set the status of a Dirtbag in negative spectrums, since they could be "hated" and "reformed." But this time, to stop being a Dirtbad was a "digression," which implies that being a dirtbag is a "progression." Regardless, there's a bias.
Do you know anyone who might be a Weekender DB?
If so, what are some things you notice about them?
No comments on these two. As I said above, I don't know much. "Bias" seems to me to be phrasing a question that creates, requires, or generates a measurably different response between positive and negative descriptive responses. If my layman-off-the-cuff definition is correct, than your "interview" questions appear to have bias.
Now, just a word to the wise. Mr. Braun has seen more sh!t and forgotten more sh!t than almost anyone else here. To speak rudely to him will make you no friends.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:42am PT
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H.Lea
The only real so called dirtbag I've ever really known is Tucker Tech. And I'm not saying this in a derogatory manner, but in respect.
The guy is just fuking awesome! I have so much respect for this guy as an individual. He is for real.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 12:58am PT
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Okay, how about this...I am writing a story for a reputable magazine entitled Is Dirtbagging Dead? Perhaps the questions are biased, but the other side of the subject has been thouroughly covered, hence my search for those who 'dislike dirtbags' and those who once were dirtbags and 'reformed'.
Being an accomplished climber who's seen a lot of sh!t does not necessarily give one the exclusive right to respond rudely in the first place to someone trying to get feedback from the community.
Cheers.
Heather
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2006 - 01:09am PT
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Reputable magazine?
The title was "Your thoughts ...." I gave you mine. What do you want? Something that fits your preconceived ideas?
I still think it's a stupid subject matter. Now listen very closely. THAT IS MY THOUGHT.
Someone else most likely will give you what you really think you want. Then take what you want.
Happy thesis ............ :-)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 01:24am PT
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Dirtbags come and go;
But we are here.
Who are we?
A piece of yourself that you perhaps forgot to remember.
Nothing special,
Move along.
Can't sleep here.
cheerfuly yours,
tarbousier.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Oct 29, 2006 - 05:21am PT
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Troll
anybody else google "Heather Lea"?
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Fatass
Social climber
Claremont, CA
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Oct 29, 2006 - 10:31am PT
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Is Climbing still considered a reputable magazine? I even hesitate to read it in the shitter. I personally find it constipating.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 11:15am PT
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My thoughts on dirtbags? Well, I love being one. I'm not always one, b/c I can't have the luxury, but when I do, it's one of the more real experiences in my life. The friends I have who might also consider themselves dirtbags are the first people I'd rather have a conversation with.
No offence was intended by the questions. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
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bill
Trad climber
ca
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Oct 29, 2006 - 11:51am PT
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to dirtbag is to climb
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2006 - 11:53am PT
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Those who think they are a dirtbag are not one.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:27pm PT
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By choice, I was once a dirtbag climber. Not by my choosing, I have devolved back into the American middle class which spawned me. Dirtbags dig deep into the most fertile soil of life. That's why they're dirty...
Dirtbag hippie climbers from the early 70'S:
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 12:32pm PT
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Jello and Locker
Love it. More what I was looking for.
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10b4me
Trad climber
California
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:41pm PT
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even if this is a troll, Werner's answers are hilarious.
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Oct 29, 2006 - 12:58pm PT
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Maybe you should focus on the proliferation of fees that makes the lifestyle almost prohibitive these days.
I speak of many formerly free camping areas at climbing destination areas becoming pay only, having the fees raised, or in danger of becoming pay...Josh, Yos C4, Smith grasslands, being examples respectively.
Stick a sign and a trash can or shitter there, call it "improvements" or "facilities"...none of which were requested or wanted from the primary user group (climbers) and start charging.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 01:37pm PT
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Blinny,
I think dirtbagging is all relative to what your lifestyle was like before you took your trip.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 01:39pm PT
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Elcapinyoazz,
Point taken. And higher cost of fuel = less likely to jump in your car for that spontaneous trip to Mexico.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 29, 2006 - 01:45pm PT
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Heather- I added some pics of actual dirtbags to my earlier post.
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stonefree
Trad climber
Charlottesville
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Oct 29, 2006 - 01:57pm PT
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" Those who think they are a dirtbag are not one."
Nice.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 06:58pm PT
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That's it kids?
Golly gee,
I mean, Gee wiz, I go bouldering all excited to come back and see the goods 'n all manner of snappy 'n insightful rumination; troll or no troll, this cud be fun.
Well, Jello's pics are neato, that's fer dang sure.
-And eKaterinaHippyGirl!
(Might I suggest you were just recently on a "walkabout": quite distinct from dirt-bagero).
Lemme get the confabulator goin, along with a little vino...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 08:08pm PT
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Okie Dokie,
Like I was tryin’ to be sayin’ on the other threadero-
I never liked the term Dirtbag.
I prefer Minimalist Voluptuary.
For starters, although we (those in the know, haha), we know what this dirtbag term applies to; nevertheless, I never cleaved to it. Just take a look at Locker’s posted definition and it is clear that dirt bag at the outset has a sort of skanky, untrustworthy, and generally disreputable feel to it. (Oops, that definition rings a few bells; OK maybe we were once scoundrels, well some of us…).
That term leaves little room for dignity and it does not characterize the platform from which much noble striving was once sought. Yes, by the way, the noble savage, or dirtbag still exists. There are young people working in mountain shops, on construction sites, holding seasonal jobs of all description and they often live out of their cars a great deal of the time to achieve a lean efficiency and leverage their work purely to feed their adventures. I have met them.
Nevertheless, identifying with internal experience and giving it primacy over external material reward and security: this is the basis upon which a dirtbag’s strivings are predicated, thus the minimalist is born, or attempts to be wrought upon the scene of the luxurious sensory experience there to be had for the taking. You have access to sweeping heights, a marvelously tuned physique, adrenalin, confronted fear, inexplicable self satisfaction, but you must often pay significant dues to really attain mastery.
Essentially, the dirtbag, um I mean the minimalist voluptuary, understands that although not a strict axiom, the more material and external wealth projected, the less rich and cultivated the internal soul. It’s all about where and when the personal energy is focused. I wouldn’t state this as an absolute, but it holds true and bears out more often than not. Sure, investing in intellectual resources benefits us in the long run: higher life earnings, ability to extend as a dirt bag at a later date and all that, but that sort of non material and very savvy internal cultivation comes with a price and like anything its acquisition has to be well timed.
To my mind a lot of it boils down to the tension point between the urgency of rewarding the gift of youth versus squandering the needed preparation to secure a reasonable future. To leverage the youthful mind/body in best molding a useful set of deeply instilled mental and physical patterns at an early age, which will then better serve the climber for a lifetime; this is often the big challenge and dirt bagging is so often the tempting, useful, and yes – the risky solution.
Happy Sailing,
Roy
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2006 - 09:14pm PT
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Tarbuster,
Excellent. I may have to quote you. Would that be OK with you?
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 29, 2006 - 09:20pm PT
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Mr Boostier- a toast to you, my man!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Oct 29, 2006 - 09:23pm PT
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Sheesh Tardy.... gurgle on would ya.....
I was just going to divlulge all known info on Dirtbaggery™™™ and a treatise on "Great dirt bags I have known", but I got so damn tired out reading yer gobble-de-prose I had to go lay down. Maybe an episode next week if I forget to shower.....
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Oct 29, 2006 - 09:25pm PT
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"Well, I love being one. I'm not always one, b/c I can't have the luxury"
Luxury of being a dirtbag. That's the funniest thing I've read all night.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 09:35pm PT
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Well there Dave,
You dint even read whut I wrote huh?
(just goofin' on yah)
Oopsie, I know, werds 'n stuff all knotted up perhaps.
I was trying to say that sensory experience in the form of wicked routes is a luxury, by many accounts one of the highest of luxuries we have been known to afford our bad 'ole selves.
You know, I got that you weren't dragin' on my quote, I think that was Lea's anyhow, but that Voluptuary thing really rings for me, as I see physical, emotional, and intellectual experience as presented in the climbing riff as totally sensuous & luxurious.
We ain't saints and we do value a rockin' good time.
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Hootervillian
climber
the Hooterville World-Guardian
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Oct 29, 2006 - 09:50pm PT
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if you really want a sighting of a dirtbag in it's native habitat, find yourself a gaggle 'o trustafari. more than likely one will show up, usually in the middle of the 'rotation'.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 09:50pm PT
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And don't listen to Mussy(RW) he knows darn tootin' well what I'm ah talkin' bout.
One ah my fave memories is a time, once upon a time, when me 'n mussy were all stumble drunk on our coffee buzz in cramp 4, and muss wadd, that's mussy, juss tossed his empty cup into the squalor that was our table and said "Man, we are livin' like Kings!".
Routes all around, buddies & betty's tah hook up wit, shaggy racks abundant, few real material cares demanding our attention.
Now that is luxury.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 10:18pm PT
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Oh and Lea,
Per the quote me request.
See, I pretty much live on Supertopo, mostly to chat & flirt it up with all the hot chix who live here too (Lisa is Ok with it as long as I rub her feet after I log off)...oh & yes a lot of my old and dear buddies are here too. It is a fluid medium and context is critical to relational efficacy.
So my point bein' that I am of course circumspect of being quoted, you know, what with the confluence of nasty lil' things like deadlines, shifting context, & editors takin' my sensitive and incisive gobble-d'gook to a place where it lacks all original alacrity.
So, at the outset I am amenable to contributing, but I gotta ask to proof read the final of what yer gonna submit before I willingly lay it in your lap. I know it is more than less public domain at this point, but that is my wish.
Best Regards,
Roy
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James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
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Oct 29, 2006 - 10:23pm PT
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My house is a tent in the woods. My student loans go to climbing trips instead of rent. I meet my climbing partners in a parking lot, Lone Lad from Covina style. I guess that makes me a dirtbag.
Little while ago, went out to the bars with a lady friend. She was the Sahara, hot, and things were going remarkably smooth for me. As we left the bar, I thought I was gonna be touchin it later that night. She turned to me and said with a coyish smile, "I'd go home with you...if you had a home to go to."
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 29, 2006 - 10:39pm PT
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excellent point james,
not only is dirt bagging risky, but costly too.
way hard on relationships or potential relationships; the dirtbag gals will tell you the same.
the difference bein' that dirt bag gals often have sumwhut better set ups in their 'rigs: i once witnessed a cute lil' d bag gal's VW micro bus, fitted out with an actual chest of drawers fer clothes.
another, the venerable (can't recall her name), had spice racks built in to her van doors...
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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Oct 29, 2006 - 11:10pm PT
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My thoughts on a dirtbag:
One who sleeps with their head in the dirt. Staying in C4 is the epitomie of head in dirt bivi.
Hmmmm... beat up vans with grease pouring out of the engine, and hot, cheap beer in the topbox. rolling their own cigs with bugler, and perhaps mixing a bit of taboo along with it.
thick fingers, strong climbing, and living large.
Running it out, vertically, as well as horizontally.
lastly, living a dream that most of us are too afraid of.
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Don't let go
Trad climber
Yorba Linda, CA
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Oct 30, 2006 - 12:36am PT
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So has anyone "reformed" from being a dirtbag as was asked? To put a less negative spin on it, has anyone stopped being a dritbag to pursue a life with a steady job, kids, house...? I personally want to know because I just graduated from college and am needing to chose between having a job with ok money or touring the world climbing.
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mountain fairy
Trad climber
Phoenix
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Oct 30, 2006 - 02:07am PT
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Wow. And all these years I thought "dirtbag climber" was a term of endearment- not something to defend, change or rationalize!
Man, those were the days... Playing chess with Tucker at the deli, making saltines with ketchup and mustard and calling it "pizza". Hauling pigs bigger than myself for a bit of cash so I could stay in the Valley a few more weeks...
Who doesn't like to sleep with their head in the dirt?
Is there really such thing as "reforming" when you're a true dirtbag at heart?
Minimalism is a true luxury in our consumer-driven society.
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mountain fairy
Trad climber
Phoenix
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Oct 30, 2006 - 02:13am PT
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"Has anyone reformed"...
Does one every truly reform? I hope not!
There are many shades of dirtbag grayness...it's more a state of mind...
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 30, 2006 - 08:37am PT
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O.P. -
I'm pretty sure there's absolutely no such thing as a "weekend dirtbag" like you imply you become when you "have the luxury."
And the mags get lamer and lamer...I always found that I wrote the best (and most entertaining) when I was writing about something I knew about in the first place, or directly knew the sources of information for what I was writing about. Maybe you should try that?
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oldtopangalizard
Social climber
ca
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Oct 30, 2006 - 08:57am PT
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don't let go
One can become a reformed dirtbag. We spent years sleeping in the dirt in JT with the sand filling your mouth while you snored away too tanked to know.
I remember waking up on a fireroad outside of Idyllwild, crashed in the middle of the road, in the middle of nowhere, with my face full of ants. It was a long time ago, but I believe it was called 'cowbell alley'. Someone can help me on that. Anyway, it was a great life, but now I sleep in a bed almost every night. Showers are daily, yes, you can be saved. But be forewarned, you will always remember the days of no showers, no running water and face in the dirt sleep as the great days.
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pda2540
climber
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Oct 30, 2006 - 10:49am PT
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Heather does not seem to be typical dirtbag:
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Oct 30, 2006 - 12:17pm PT
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Like most 'so called' climbing writers, she probably can't climb any better than she proposes questions that she doesn't have a clue about.
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Climber 46
Social climber
Ottawa, Ontario
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Oct 30, 2006 - 12:53pm PT
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Dirtbags are the real climbers who have logged a ton of miles
on tough terrain. They have been up countless walls and have done so on a non-existent budget often without the all the gear that supertopo lists. Middle aged guys like me who work in a gear store, own way too much gear, and can barely make it up the easiest walls once every year or so know that the REAL CLIMBER is a dirtbag.
Cheers,
Doug
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 30, 2006 - 12:55pm PT
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I'm fer 'em.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 01:13am PT
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Gosh, thanks for the photo. Someone has a little too much time on their hands...freaky!
Ya, I do look a little shiny in that one, but what can I say? It was Xmas and my parents were there, for God's sake.
All you negative, quick-to-judge herd of sheep... You're about the grumpiest people I've ever encountered. You think I'M stereotyping? Generalizing? You see one picture, follow one opinion and all of a sudden, you all know me. Would it make any difference if I tell you how many times I've packed my truck and gone away for months on end? No, probably not. Because I have clean hair and all my teeth in that photo, so I couldn't possibly have climbed barbed wire fences to break into showers, or helped paint the Climbers Ranch in the Tetons so I could live in their parking lot for a month. Oh, I could go on, but I'm already hearing the slander I'll get for 'blowing my own horn' or maybe I'm even making it up?
Lighten the eff up...
Why should I have to be the dirtiest of the dirtbags to write about the subject?
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 01:20am PT
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Tarbuster,
I'll surely let you know :)
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kev
climber
CA
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Oct 31, 2006 - 02:36am PT
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Why not find out for yourself?
Quit or loose (perferable loose) your job, take 2K and go live in josh until April 1st.
Oh and you have to climb alot (and perferable drink alot....)
enjoy your budget
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Oct 31, 2006 - 07:32am PT
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Two Thousand dollars, for 5 months living in the park?
That qualifies as Stylee Dirtbag(definitely tiny-TM'ed, since we have a writer looking for content on board) in my book!!!
It's a far cry from Luxe Dirtbaggerie(pronounced with a white trash faux french accent, also tiny-tm'ed) though, of which I claim as my milieu
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Crag
Trad climber
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Oct 31, 2006 - 08:20am PT
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Thanks for your post(s) Christian; I hope Heather along with others will read it in earnest. I especially appreciate your comments regarding dreams and following them. Based on your criteria many years ago I had a good 2-year vacation. I’ll never give up trying to live my dream.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 31, 2006 - 10:59am PT
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I tend to agree Heather,
With the inherent risks outlined by Christian in publishing this type of thing along with the unintended outcomes.
The Rolling Stone published a similar thing in the 80's, Trip Wilson I believe was the Author, and a lot of people proudly came forth with a bit too much reportage on their errant behavior, thinking it was cool and funny. Well, for him it made a juicy piece, but it ended up as an open snub to the authorities.
I think you could write something meaningful, interesting, perhaps even productive to our collective goals but you may want to heed some of the advice rendered, respectful of the source offerings here on the forum, and very carefully navigate the minefield of the subject matter, so that you reflect values, choices, and dirt bag spirit on the one hand and pair it to respectful, low key, complimentary behavior as is most often required of the modern dirtbag. The game ain’t the free for all it once was and compliance with the hard won public efforts put forth by the climbing community at large and preserving our public face is of great importance.
Think Delicate Arch & Etc.
Cheers,
Roy
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 31, 2006 - 11:11am PT
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Christian
Thumbs up bro, thanks!
Werner
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 31, 2006 - 11:31am PT
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According to Elcap's criteria, I had one good decade of dirtbagdom - the 'seventies. It was the favorite time of my life, although there have been many wonderful times since then, as well(a couple marriages, the birth of my daughter, some great climbs, etc). I replaced the transaxle in my '63 VW bus, three times. What was the title of that classic old VW repair manual that used to be the bible that allowed us to keep resurrecting our bugs and van's? I wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to begin with today's cars.
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 31, 2006 - 11:53am PT
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I like those HEPA types. They keep the dust down when I vacuum. My allergies have been much better since I have been using them.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 31, 2006 - 11:58am PT
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I can't see the picture, BlinnyKnott...
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 31, 2006 - 12:15pm PT
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Beautifull bus, eKat. Made me smile...
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Michael Kennedy
Social climber
Carbondale, Colorado
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Oct 31, 2006 - 12:22pm PT
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Tom Merrill, aka Cardo, after a few days on the West Face of the Titan, Fisher Towers, UT, 1975 or so.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 12:23pm PT
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Supertopo friends and others,
The article will not harm or exploit you and your lifestyle. It simply isn't about that. If possible, I will post it somewhere so you can read it and breath a sigh of relief, perhaps even wonder why all the fuss?
And by the way? I think I made, at most $1000 last year writing for magazines, so, ya, I'm really out there for the money...
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 12:25pm PT
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Jello, Bliny and Mr. Kennedy,
Love the photos... :)
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 31, 2006 - 12:26pm PT
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MK- Now THERE'S A REAL DIRTBAG! How are you, old man?
-Jeff
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 12:40pm PT
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Cheers Christian,
Agreed full heartedly. The article is about exactly that: government crack-down, along with high gas prices and other logistics. Wish I'd had a chance to say that from the start - too late now.
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goatboy smellz
climber
boulder county
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Oct 31, 2006 - 01:26pm PT
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HO Jello & eKat! You must be referring to this classic.
Damn if it ever did me a bit a good,
seems like I only made things worse then ended up taking it in to Verner's to fix it
right.
"Idiot proof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of idiots."
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 31, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
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That's the one, Goat!
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crankenstein
Trad climber
Louisville, CO
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Oct 31, 2006 - 02:08pm PT
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Not gonna try to answer the questions, but I can't help but feel disappointed that I never qualified for the status. I quit my job every spring/summer for a good part of the 80's to hit the road and climb. I would put my meager belongings in storage and stow a few hundred dollars in case I wanted to return and go with the thought that I didn't know when or if I would return. Indeed that "was the life". I still reminesce about the great times and great people that I met on the road. It all came to an end when I had kids. Is it possible to get honorary dirt bag status? Nah, I suppose not. But I'm betting that there's a little dirt bag in nearly all of the posters here. Cheers!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 31, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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Labels
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James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
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Oct 31, 2006 - 02:49pm PT
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"2 months is a good roadtrip, 2 years is a good vacation, 2 decades and you are living the dream."
-Christian George.
Well said.
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Ouch!
climber
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Oct 31, 2006 - 03:28pm PT
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You can't be a dirtbag if you have the means to be anything else. Otherwise, you are just a pretender with a safety net.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 04:27pm PT
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Ooooh, I like that one, Ouch.
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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Oct 31, 2006 - 04:42pm PT
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Much respected dirtbag of the So. Sierra scene...
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mastadon
Trad climber
Seattle
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Oct 31, 2006 - 04:57pm PT
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"Not all who wander are lost"......
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Oct 31, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
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H. Lea, I think you have uncovered one of the great fears of climbers who frequent the taco.
Dirtbagsploitation.
But hey, you might be the next eminem?
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TYeary
Mountain climber
Calif.
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Oct 31, 2006 - 05:08pm PT
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For me it's always been a state of mind. Even when I wasn't in camp 4, the pit, or several other place I've thrown down for a month at a time, I have always been"there" since I started the journey called "climbing" Middle class life is no more a uniform than the long hair I sported in the 70's and 80's.(Before it went grey.)Dirtbagging is a way of life initiated by a mind set. Lots of posers out there. Werner was right about Tucker! Very few like him.
Tony
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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Oct 31, 2006 - 05:23pm PT
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a couple of summers back, I went on a road trip up the northern california coastline.
I had a couple grand and figured by the time I reached my friends in oregon, i'd be sweet. problems started in san fran at larry flints hustlers club the first night.... out of jack by the nights end.
so much for coasting. i had to slip into survival mode. first night out, i managed a bivi on the ocean. next day i needed a shower but had no accomidations, after getting a styrofoam cooler and getting some bread, bologna, and cheap wine, i headed into the redwoods where i found "HELLS HOLE".... coolest place ever. down into the campground i went. no one around, but one camping site had a stack of wood, 5 dollars in dimes stacked neatly, and a bar of soap.... not to mention a cool creek running next to it. ahhhhh... i still remember the awesome feeling of laying by the fire reading under the stars, with my fire crackling, after a cool bath in the creek. that's the life man.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 31, 2006 - 05:45pm PT
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H. Lea, you have received a much larger story then the one you were trolling for. Please don't squander it at climbing™.
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spud
climber
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Oct 31, 2006 - 05:48pm PT
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As a midwest suburban matron my goal by the time I am 55 is to become a vagabond--get rid of the quaint old house in the quaint suburb, get rid of all the stuff that goes along with the quaint suburban lifestyle--live in my tent, climb, hike, backpack and live off very little $$. I don't want to become a "dirtbag", I want to become a vagabond. Real dirtbags don't play on Supertopo all day long posting comments. Sometimes I wonder if real dirtbags are extinct.
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Crag
Trad climber
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Oct 31, 2006 - 08:28pm PT
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My eldest daughter once made a comment, an attempt to rib old dad, that if it were not for her mother I'd be sitting on a street corner smoking a cig & drinking whiskey... I told her that she was only partly right. Money has brought security in things I first never wanted, house, cars and all of the other trappings of my postmodern life. Being an east coaster it wasn’t long before I read about the Vulgarians (Gunks) I new that was a life style for me. Although I never came close to fully emulating Dick Williams, I attempted to follow in their footsteps. Hanging out with the crew at Roy Gap Road (Seneca) was another enriching experience. I used to think this must be a smaller version of C4. Like Camp Slime at the Gunks, there was a real sense of community at these little outposts I had never experienced. Mr. Daly wrote of his experience upon first meeting Todd Skinner and the Pancake breakfast, (see below.) Stuff like this really cuts to the heart of the matter for me at least.
I'll never forget that morning because it was the first time I had randomly met some climber, felt that instant shared heritage and bond and formed a lifetime friendship.
Maybe what I’m getting at isn’t “dirtbagging” at all and just one of the benefits of being a dirtbag climber.
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Tahoe climber
climber
Texas to Tahoe
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H. Lea - First, sorry for the deluge of negative comments from the easily upset masses. Such a deluge implies to me that some people have drifted - or reformed - from their earlier "no worries" dirtbag days.
Second, YES - the fact that one of them hunted for and found your picture on the net is spooky, nerdy, and unnecessary - as was the instant judgement that you weren't "in the dirtbag club."
Here's my thoughts on dirtbaggery, at least as it pertains to climbing:
I think being a dirtbag climber is a huge joke that a lot of people don't seem to get.
Though the literal definition has deep-seated negative connotations - as is clearly expressed by the defensive words of those who consider themselved some of the elite climbing royalty earlier in this thread - my experiences with hearing the phrase are positive.
When a compadre calls another a dirtbag climber, he does it with a wry smile.
Dirtbag climber is a label that people (who have a financial security blanket and limited courage) give to other people (that have the courage to go out and pursue their happiness without it.)
The reason it's a huge joke is that those saying it intend it negatively, but those that really are dirtbag climbers, (or who are just intellectually sympathetic with dirtbag climbers) take it as an elevated compliment. Because it's not easy being a dirtbag climber - it's not safe, by modern society's standards.
It's not the 2-car, 2-kid, house with picket fence definition of happiness that we're spoon-fed practically from conception.
But because it's not easy, to pull it off and do what you love is quite an accomplishment! If it was easy, hell, everyone would be on the dirtbag train! It takes an extraordinary mind to take society's pressures, consider them and the opposite options, then consciously tell society to f#ck off and go do what makes you happy.
It ain't for everyone, but I admire those who pull it off.
-Aaron Kutzer
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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"The reason it's a huge joke is that those saying it intend it negatively, but those that really are dirtbag climbers, (or who are just intellectually sympathetic with dirtbag climbers) take it as an elevated compliment."
I have never heard a climber use the term with a negative connotation. And the word "dirtbag," in general usage, is actually archaic, I think. It was in general use back in the 1970's or so, in my memory(which only goes back to the early 1960's). Then, it meant sort of like being a pervert or creep, and had nothing to do with a lifestyle with a very high largesse to financial resource ratio.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"a lifestyle with a very high largesse to financial resource ratio."
If that's it, I'm a lifer.
Try teaching special for a daily stipend in the land of $700k starter homes. Rolling my bag in the dirt now and then, and climbing what moves me, is my carrot.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Hey Mooch:
EC Joe right?
OK Darnit! Will the real dirtbag please step forward.
How can we know who is really real here...
Shoot, I just can't say,
I'll leave it up to you guys to decide,
But these may have been, once upon a dirty, baggy time, like Real Dirtbags:
hmmmm....
I dunnno.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2006 - 12:54am PT
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Hey Aaron,
Thanks for the vote of confidence - where did all the grumpy elitists go, anyway?
And thanks for your unique view on dirtbaggin'. I'm with ya.
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goatboy smellz
climber
boulder county
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Good 'buster!
Keepin' it ALL in perspective.
{e!p}
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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tube socks... too funny.
Man do I miss Yos.
Edit: Heather, your a pretty lady, and if you wanna go dirtbag for awhile, Hell, I'll quit my job and we'll be climbing bum's (the new, politically correct term for dirtbag). Then, you can write a book on climbing bums like my collage professer did when he went homeless for two years to really live the life... I'm game... after mucho cerveca tonight.. tomorrow, I may say F^&K it. Anyhow.
IMHO: the best climbers are what you refer to as "Dirtbags"... the truth is, they are the best because they climb incessently, without regard to funds... read John Kruckours book (Sorry for spelling, i'm drunk), "into the wild", or some of his stories of climbing the devils thumb solo. That's is a true blue, sold out climber.
Truth is, you will NOT find a "guide the tetons in the summer, go to patigonia in the winter" climber here... well, perhaps a few, but I suspect not many posting....HELL their climbing, and trying to get by to invest in the love of their life.
They don't post, cause their out there living it. If you don't get that, you are wasting your time trying to pry out what the true, sold out, commited to the core, climber is all about.
You will not find it here.
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Standing Strong
Mountain climber
11_11*&*starz
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hey heather, here's another post supporting you. that was lame of so many to be so rude to you. thank goodness folks like tarbousier came along!
holy mother of god. look at ron kauk! holy holy holy
i'm dyin'!!!
p.s. tube socks rock my socks!! this weekend my friend and i were shopping for tube socks with stripes and we couldn't find them ANYWHERE! WHY did they go out, they're so rad!!! they were for a halloween costume, my friend was going to go as a ping-pong champion.
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hobo_dan
Trad climber
Minnesota
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Some of the best days of my life were spent living out of a backpack, hitchhiking out west, riding freight trains and climbing until my money ran out. Showing up at an area and meeting people to climb with-having no idea who they were but locking on the assumption that they had something worth offering simply because they also were there to climb. And that assumption was almost always right.
the coolest I ever felt was after climbing when we would be walking back to camp with taped hands, a stolen scrub suit shirt from the hospital on my back, and that peculiar smell of my sweat mixed with fear that comes from climbing.
I wish anyone those feelings. They were the best.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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I think a lot of coffees get swiped and OE's get drunk by people who do so not b/c they are on a budget, but b/c that's what real dirtbags do. In those cases, it seems to me to be more about fitting into an image than having a minimal or materially detached experience.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I have walked in both worlds.
Each teaches you to appreciate the other.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nice Ron-
Lean and poignant.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2006 - 05:22pm PT
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Cheers, Standing Strong :)
And shucks dougs510....I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
To everyone...this little spot on ST is providing me with a wealth of information. Thanks ever so much! (Even you guys from the start) :)
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Standing Strong
Mountain climber
11_11*&*starz
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i think stealing is wrong, corporation or no. that's basic preschool stuff. and did someone make o.e. kewl as joke?
u know, i think it sounds like if you were going to "dirtbag" it it would prolly be best to quit your caffiene addiction beforehand so you don't have to worry about coffee. it's such a waste of money. guilty pleasure for sure!
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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dougs510 invested the majority of his roadtrip money in whiskey and women (I presume that you wasted the rest). You are my hero. We've gotta get that Bigboy climbing club going, the rockrats are taking over.
I met my lifelong best friend and climbing buddy while trying to slip out of Linveille Gorge (past the ticket-cops) in a pouring rainstorm wondering where I ws going to scrounge up a climbing partner for the next day. I walked past a guy camping next to a prehistoric Dodge with his tent tied firmly to a "No Camping" sign and Doc Watson blaring from 1 blown out speaker. Something told me grab a brew and take a seat (PBR I think). Been getting vertical together for 30 years. At the time he had an antique airstream parked on the side of a mountain with cold running water, no electricity and kerosene light (bivy palace) He worked 2 days a week as a waiter and climbed the rest. I was a student which meant that I had tons of free time. Oh the good old days. But these days ain't bad either.
RRK
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James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
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"I think a lot of coffees get swiped and OE's get drunk by people who do so not b/c they are on a budget, but b/c that's what real dirtbags do. In those cases, it seems to me to be more about fitting into an image than having a minimal or materially detached experience."
Dilettantes give real dirtbags a bad name.
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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There are very few people living the dream of removing the crap we surround our lives with that give it less meaning.
dirtbag seems syntacticly incorrect; I long for a time when my responsibilities can be thrown aside and I can adventure.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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I've got too much family to ever say I've had it all on the line, but man I miss not owning more stuff than would fit in my car.
Oh well, at least I get paid to read these days. Grad student life may bring me back to dirtbaggery yet.
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Sep 29, 2010 - 09:46am PT
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my buddy knows the dismantling business. he tangled with a neighbor who turned him into the county for his dozen wrecks. we spent a good bit of the summer accumulating the 120 of 'em that it took to make it worthwhile to ship a crusher up from phoenix and a convoy of big rigs to haul away the spoils. the scene is 20 square miles that i lovingly refer to as the "rez" for the rest of us.
smash the roofs of two sedans and load them crossways on my flatbed. grab a cadillac from behind and toss it on top, no need to tie 'em down just use granny gear crossing the wash. when you get to the pile, chain up the front rig and drive out from under the group, no red tape or safety measures. it passed for a community clean-up but it was dirty work, and my idea of a good time.
the neighbor got more than he bargained for, and hasn't squeeked since.
he warn't dealing wit no dabbler dirtbags
we wanted the 30' chassis out from under a tired old 5th wheel travel trailer.
the hoe made quick work of the house, plucking the insulation
out of the bushes took a while
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 29, 2010 - 09:55am PT
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You haven't earned the real "Dirtbag" appellation until you've reached that unfortunate point in life where you realize you don't have, and will never have, a pot to piss in.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Sep 29, 2010 - 10:30am PT
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^^^indeed JD, it certainly separates those from whom have a trust they don't speak of.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Sep 29, 2010 - 10:35am PT
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I think a lot of people could never handle being a real dirtbag. Too materialistic. Afraid to get their hands dirty.
I've tasted that wine. Moved to LA from N. Idaho in '78 with nothing more than a backpack & $17. Camped in Griffith Park until I could pull it together.
It wasn't a true dirt-bag experience because I did it on-purpose.
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pedge
Trad climber
SW
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Sep 29, 2010 - 10:35am PT
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People said I was living the dirtbag life when I had no other residence than my vehicle (for years at a time). If that’s all it means, its not really interesting enough to talk about. I think some climbers, living life with great enthusiasm and spirit have inspired many of us to try to live that way ourselves, in part through climbing, in part through being open to any adventure. But when you try to distill what some individuals had and encouraged within a group into something along the lines of a material-status definition, you are missing the point. Some people cruise around in big RVs without any other residence, but with lots of invested wealth to back them up. Some people spending their lives climbing and living out of their rigs have secure families to back them up if something goes wrong. Some people climb when they can but dutifully maintain the image and life they need to keep the jobs that will lead to the sort of financial security that no one in their family has. Sometimes these are the people who are most alive, the most open and on the biggest adventure, despite their non-dirtbag lifestyle. Its how people relate to the world and others that is important, not where they sleep. That said, I think the article could be great. It is worthwhile to remind people, especially young people, that there are alternatives when out in the world to paying for everything and sleeping in hotels or paid campgrounds. It can be inspiring to hear stories about how far and how long people have been able to go on the money others spend on a single weekend trip.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Sep 29, 2010 - 10:55am PT
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Holy thread bump. LOL I suspect the article is long gone.
Dirtbag? It was said on page one.
Tucker is The One. He needs only beer, chacos, his garden and climbing.
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Sep 29, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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"...don't have, and never will have, a pot to piss in."
~~~
here's the eulogy, delivered by the guy in the green shade visor:
"...cut a hell of a swath, left quite a legacy, all in his very own way. yet ... nary a piss pot!"
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Sep 29, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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I once had a pot to piss in and i was happy.........
until I discovered that a crack ran through it and all the piss flowed out and soaked my sleeping bag.
Does that make me a dirtbag?
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BooDawg
Social climber
Polynesian Paralysis
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Sep 29, 2010 - 01:42pm PT
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I LOVE this thread and will think about it today as there is lots of food for thought.
But it was a big jump today from back in 2006!
Did Heather actually WRITE the article? Was it ever published?
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Jongy
Big Wall climber
Southern California
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Sep 29, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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wow.... just like I expected from a girl named Heather.... she's got HUGE tits.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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Hobbies: Fishing, Ghost Hunting, Football, Horseback Riding, Master of the Mechanical Bull, Swimming, Bowling, Darts (I love Cricket), Texas Hold Em', Music/Concerts, Roller Skating, Jogging, Jumping on Trampolines, Play the Clarinet, and yes...I do sew and scrapbook.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
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As pointed out, the term can have negative connotations. There are a lot of public perceptions of climbers that then form the basis of regulations that we all are subjected to.
I would love to see the magazines move away from the celebration of "dirtbag" climbers, the wild and crazy climbers, the bad-ass climbers, the adrenaline junkies, etc. Yes, we all know there is risk to the sport. The payoffs in terms of beauty, appreciation of the natural world, building of character, etc. are given very short shrift. It is no wonder that the cry to regulate, impose fees, charge for rescue, mandate equipment/techniques, prohibit access are common tools to rid the public of the unfortunate plague that they perceive climbers to be.
Can the magazines put more emphasis on the contributions of climbers to building and safeguarding the wonderful parks and trails that we all can enjoy? Can we provide role models to complement the first ascensionist - the fantastic folks that acquired/saved lands, built trails, persevered through decades of disappointmnet and ridicule to secure their local crag, worked with young people, etc. The common man can be inspired to give a little when they see the difference others have made. Those contributors may be dirtbaggers, frumpy middle class housewives, preppy excutives, ....
I have had enough of the youngest to flash grade 5.infinity and fastest to link up multiple long formations. It is fun to celebrate the pinnacle achievements. However, broaden the perspective. Think for 5 seconds what an article emphasizing certain practices will affect the Park Superintendant facing a budget shortage and this unholy, unruly mob that the rest of the public believes are penniless leeches.
Climbing is no longer the provence of the idle rich and young Ivy boys, nor is it owned by invading Europeans, nor is it just the dirtbaggers and Vulgarians. There is a huge spectrum of climbers, many of whom contribute to a climbing legacy beyond their own experience.
My thought on Dirtbags - the topic has been beat to death.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:22pm PT
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"Have slept in a heated public bathroom, even once"
Not yet, but I have spent the night trying to sleep in a phone booth. (Stuck in east Utah during a blizzard, one window pane kicked out.)
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:52pm PT
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What is your opinion on dirtbags? If you hate them, tell me why.
Ah, the concept of dirtbag is perceptual so it does not have specific lines. So first let me tell you who I think actually IS a dirtbag climber... I think it is a person who does not have a regular job because he/she wants to climb more than work. It is a person collecting cans, and doing odd jobs just to get food. If they are lucky they will have sponsorships. Yet even with sponsorships, they will still live out of a car or tent and own a climbing rack that is more expensive than all their other worldly possessions. They have no specific address, just various climbing locations.
I don't hate them, many are my friends.
Were you once a DB who's been reformed? Yes and No...
I have taken off and lived out of my car for a few months. Yet... I always had an address, a home to return to and all my adventures were more like long vacations instead of "a lifestyle." So... Even though I was living like a dirtbag. I never really was one.
Over the years these trips were shorten by responsibilities. Yet now that I have a mountaineer for a husband, I've actually increased again. So in a sense I am always toeing the dirtbag line.
If so, what changes have you made willingly or otherwise to digress from being a Lifer DB?
I have bills, a college degree, marriage certificate, job and a home. I did it all willingly and yes... I'm happy despite not climbing everyday.
Do you know anyone who might be a Weekender DB?
Me.
If so, what are some things you notice about them?
I can wear the same clothes for a month, though I must wash/change my underwear.
I can do a weekend trip with just a small handbag for luggage. I know more knots than a sailor.
Lunch out of a can is normal. My designer clothes are from outdoor companies. Plus, money isn't the goal though I do appreciate it for the freedom it gives. I don't need much, just enough for the gas to get there and some top ramen.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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The dirtbag is a modern myth with a grain of ancient truth.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2010 - 06:12pm PT
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George Plimpton would never have even asked the question.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 29, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
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Paper Lion is a great book.
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powderdan
Social climber
mammoth lakes
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Sep 29, 2010 - 11:30pm PT
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proud to be a dirt bag.
proud to drive a dirt bag rig.
my wife and family love me for the dirtbag that i am.
i shutter to think of not being one.
the best part of being a dirt bag? there is nowhere to fall.
i love dirt and i love bags!
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Chango
Trad climber
norcal
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Sep 30, 2010 - 01:25am PT
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Why can't the fact that certain people place their passions above all else be accepted and not pidgeonhole these people into a category? It's just a choice. It's not noble, nor pathetic... it's only the path that person chose.No different than making the choice to make as much money as possible. When I was 22, I lived in a van and surfed all over Australia. I was just a kid dedicating a chunk of time towards something that made me feel good! Dirtbag? No, just someone making a choice.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Sep 30, 2010 - 01:44am PT
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Lovegasoline; Great little essay!
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian, Certified Kook
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Sep 30, 2010 - 02:10am PT
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from the Heather Leah website
Facts about Heather Leah:
Odd Habits: I have a serious problem with touching rouch texture items. I will not own or touch a wooden spoon, sandpaper, or chalk. I can't stand the feeling of dirt on my hand or feet. I constantly wash my hands and then follow up with lotion, as I hate the dry feeling as well.
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H. Lea
Trad climber
Canada
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2010 - 12:35pm PT
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I was interested to see this thread bump up again.
FYI - H.Lea is not Heather Leah.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Sep 30, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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Dirtbags started dressing like dancers, wearing mullets and acting like prima donnas. It was the beginning of the end. So went a decade of dullness.
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Sep 30, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
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First let me say, I have used or been aquainted with many of the little lifestyle habits mentioned earlier. I didn't need to label it, it just was the way I was, and wanted to be. It was the only way I had to aquire what was very dear to me at the time, my only reasonable resource if you will.
What is your opinion on dirtbags? If you hate them, tell me why.
I have worked hard all my life to not judge others, but have not succeded as well as some here, but better than social average.
Were you once a DB who's been reformed?
I didn't put a name to it, just did what I had to. How can I reform what wasn't wrong?
If so, what changes have you made willingly or otherwise to digress from being a Lifer DB?
I did what came naturally, succeded slightly, failed many times. I learned compromise in my life was acceptable, and have been happy to be free enough and knowledgable enough to reap a lot of the cream out of life.
Do you know anyone who might be a Weekender DB?
There are tons of phony people in the world, and I do not know anyone personally that fits this description, if it is even possible.
If so, what are some things you notice about them?
Mentally deficient, in need of attention, etc. etc..
I know this was a thread resurection from way back, but notice H. Lea still around, and thought my perspective might amuse some, bewilder some, and hopefully enlighten at least one.
Burly Bob
PS. Things would dramatically have to change for me to return to the lifestyle, as I own a home, several vehicles, some really new gear. I do continue to sleep in the dirt when I go to climb away from my home, like last week, this weekend, all spring, last January, the end of August, etc., etc..
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Sep 30, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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labels
status
pigeonholing
judgment
sweet.
can I be cool too?
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Sep 30, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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it's easy to confuse methodology, which is a means to an end,
with the elements that define the intentionality of purpose
.
things like flexibile scheduling, continuity of training, opportunity enhancement, knitting of the social fabric in the face of societal isolation, spontaneity for it's own inherent value, ownership of the decision matrix, and on and on
i mean dirt was just a cover, and grifting was not the point
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Sep 30, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
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oh rok, i've been a little coy. my roots run deep. we could go on tour as team teachers.
avoidance tactics, consequence denial, enhanced justification, all very marketable if you accept bum checks. not that diversionary behavior ever needed any accelerant.
climbing itself is incentive enough
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 30, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
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Dirtbag, in any kind of substantive context, simply refers to young people more interested in immediate concerns like climbing or surfing or (fill in the blank) than with appearances, security, stability, and the other ten thousand things for which we later mortgage our freedom.
In this sense, a "reformed dirtbag" is a corrupted notion, like saying an adult is a reformed adolescent. I feel for anyone who never went DB and experienced, for the moment, that it was their pleasure that counted.
Fear, lack of imagination or slavery to conservative mores are the only things that can draw an energetic young person straight into adulthood. And such a person is apt to be constipated with resentments, will rarely get to play in the sun, makes love but never really gets laid, never cranks the radio too loud or makes waves, and dies wondering how come.
JL
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Sep 30, 2010 - 04:00pm PT
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Wisdom, Mr. Long. Bravo.
I'm a dirtbag cowboy, actually a redundant term. Proud of it, too.
Being a bum is easy. Working? That's a toughie.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
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Sep 30, 2010 - 04:04pm PT
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I would love to see the magazines move away from the celebration of "dirtbag" climbers, the wild and crazy climbers, the bad-ass climbers, the adrenaline junkies, etc. Yes, we all know there is risk to the sport. The payoffs in terms of beauty, appreciation of the natural world, building of character, etc. are given very short shrift. It is no wonder that the cry to regulate, impose fees, charge for rescue, mandate equipment/techniques, prohibit access are common tools to rid the public of the unfortunate plague that they perceive climbers to be.
Can the magazines put more emphasis on the contributions of climbers to building and safeguarding the wonderful parks and trails that we all can enjoy? Can we provide role models to complement the first ascensionist - the fantastic folks that acquired/saved lands, built trails, persevered through decades of disappointmnet and ridicule to secure their local crag, worked with young people, etc. The common man can be inspired to give a little when they see the difference others have made. Those contributors may be dirtbaggers, frumpy middle class housewives, preppy excutives, ....
I have had enough of the youngest to flash grade 5.infinity and fastest to link up multiple long formations. It is fun to celebrate the pinnacle achievements. However, broaden the perspective. Think for 5 seconds what an article emphasizing certain practices will affect the Park Superintendant facing a budget shortage and this unholy, unruly mob that the rest of the public believes are penniless leeches.
Climbing is no longer the provence of the idle rich and young Ivy boys, nor is it owned by invading Europeans, nor is it just the dirtbaggers and Vulgarians. There is a huge spectrum of climbers, many of whom contribute to a climbing legacy beyond their own experience.
My thought on Dirtbags - the topic has been beat to death.
The head of nail was absolutely destroyed here.
Bravo.
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powderdan
Social climber
mammoth lakes
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Sep 30, 2010 - 04:07pm PT
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"If you gots a wife and kids, you ain't no dirtbag with that safety net under you. And I ought to know, cuz I'm Rick James, bitch!!!@@@####&"
first of all i dont have kids...i have a family. and i have a job too. two of them actualy. you can take the dirtbag out of the dirt but you cant take the dirt out of the bag. judge not. bitch.
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Les
Trad climber
Bahston
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Sep 30, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
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damn, Largo's post has me all down and sh#t, 'cause it's true. but perhaps it may be enough for most to experience the DB lifestyle only ephemerally, from time to time. or maybe not.
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BES
climber
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Sep 30, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
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Les,
life is not always fair to all.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 30, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
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John kind of put in in perspective. Dirtbagging is volentary and associated with something fun like climbing, sking,surfing,folowing the dead, etc. Sleeping in the dirt by choice to experience your pastime to the fullest.
A few weeks ago we were climbing in NH and Crashed at the littleton Wall Mart. Porcelin for the woman and a safe place to not get rousted by cops while sleeping. There were folks crashed there that were obviously Mtn bikers dirtbagging it but there were also familys that were just trying to get by. there is a HUGE difference between sleeping in Wall Mart parking lots for sport and sleeping there because there truely is no other place to go...
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Sep 30, 2010 - 06:24pm PT
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Ah, heavy sigh. Those were the days.
Roy, I don't know if anyone driving a classy Caddy like that one can be a DB.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Aug 26, 2017 - 06:50pm PT
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Some interesting posts in this thread... and a few cool photos from BITD.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 26, 2017 - 08:31pm PT
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Kind of a broad category. For me there is a difference between dirtbagging and being a dirtbag.
Career dirtbags often have a sense of entitlement that makes me want to keep them at arms length.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Aug 26, 2017 - 08:33pm PT
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I try not to have thoughts.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 26, 2017 - 09:30pm PT
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Interesting how "dirtbag" somehow has cache now, like it's cool or something. Meh. It's what some people had/have to do to pursue their dreams, and very few like living on dimes and crappy jobs just to get to the crags/beach/whatevs one more time. It's a necessity for some--not an objective. And Tucker? Some quirk of genetics. Dude is unique.
This quote from Largo is interesting:
Fear, lack of imagination or slavery to conservative mores are the only things that can draw an energetic young person straight into adulthood.
Boy, sure makes being an adult sound horrible. So is building a career, raising children, etc.--arguably hallmarks of adulthood--the consequence of cowardice, dullness, and servitude? Really? That must be true in some cases, but it is certainly NOT true for many others. I think for many in the dirtbag circles, the life gets old, which can happen to anyone. A little security, a steady relationship, the comfort of a reliable home--these are not evil. A season or two of dirtbaggery--whatever form it takes--is well worth the effort, but life is multi-layered, and sticking to one path is sometimes a fool's journey. Emerson said: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Dude had a point.
For myself, once I built up some skills, and the classroom was rocking, a good day teaching was as a great day--maybe not quite the level of topping out on El Cap for the first time--but damn good just the same. And once you've climbed a bunch of walls, surfed a bunch of breaks, developed some skills in the outdoors, then what? Repeat until death? Well, doesn't sound too bad, but I'm personally glad my life has not been one of continuous dirtbagging.
Anyway, that's my rant, and I'm sticking to it...until I don't.
BAd
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 27, 2017 - 07:16am PT
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Cool, Gnome. Thanks!
BAd
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Aug 27, 2017 - 07:42am PT
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Real Dirtbaggin is....
Schlepping and living out of a 48 kilo haulbag for years while traveling the world and climbing, funded only by your shoulder season manual labor.
Showing up at a popular alpine ish climbing area with nothing but a foam pad, a pair of shoes, a few cans of chili and a water bottle and doing 4000 feet of climbing in 2 days.
Bumming coffee from hipsters camping on the back loop using a cut off plastic water bottle from the recycling dumpster after an early morning solo on Intersection rock.
Sipping a 10$ bottle of whiskey under a tarp with your buddy for 36 hours while you wait for the rain to stop.
Hitching back from climbing with your feet hanging out the window for 3 hours because they stank so bad.
No address, no phone number, no job prospects, no girl prospects, and no falls for months.
Living simply and free.
Dirtbagging is NOT...
Sprinter vans.
Facebook.
Trust funds.
The video above.
Supertopo.
People/companies that try to capitalize by glorifying or defining dirtbagging are blasphemous and should just stay in the f*#king rock gym with their Red Bull.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Aug 27, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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Jean Sheperd had some thoughts on a similar topic: the loner. Sheperd noted
that some people liked to view themselves as loners, and tell anyone who would listen that is what they are - the James Dean method of getting attention and fame. Sheperd said that the true loner was an unusual thing, these people were essentially invisible, and it wasn't a choice.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 27, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
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For me there is a difference between dirtbagging and being a dirtbag.
Career dirtbags often have a sense of entitlement that makes me want to keep them at arms length (Jim)
Excellent observation, Jim. Back in the late 1950s I would camp in the Tetons with Yvon Chouinard and his friends. They were dirtbagging it. But Yvon certainly moved far beyond that level of existence.
This brings up the question of whether the word "dirtbag" should have been used in the title of the Fred Beckey movie. I only knew Fred fifty years ago, and I would not have described him that way, but time has passed. Fred's counterpart in the world of mathematics was the Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős. He traveled the world with a shopping bag and suitcase, staying with eager hosts at universities in virtually every civilized country. And my impression was that he did have a kind of sense of entitlement, but that it was well-deserved.
Fear, lack of imagination or slavery to conservative mores are the only things that can draw an energetic young person straight into adulthood (Largo)
That is the worst kind of Longian logic. What a ridiculous statement.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Boise, ID
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Aug 27, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
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Though I'm an upstanding member of Society these days, I dug my days as a Dirtbag. Best 8 years of my life.
If you don't get it, you'll never get it.
Dirtbags are extinct now, anyway.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 27, 2017 - 09:34pm PT
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Yep, that's it, Somebody. Ya gotta know when to fold 'em, so to speak. And in the modern age, with the right attitude and a climbing gym, one can still do some damn impressive ascents--not that I EVER could--while still holding down a fairly conventional life. A big trick is to find and build a career that doesn't suck. Not easy.
BAd
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 28, 2017 - 06:06am PT
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Stupid f*#king labels!
Living Ecco Nominally in order to do more of what you love, in our case climbing, is one thing, I've been doing various versions of it for forty odd years and counting.
" Dirtbag", noun, is a perjorative, see sleazoids. No thank you.
Currently though, it is a trademark of the Patagonia empire, the company that will sell you a shirt you don't need that says " live simply." No irony there.
I think the later is the sense it is used the most, currently. White privileged wannabe climbers, who sleep in their cars every so often, so they can call themselves dirtbags. See "Hippy"
It's all a marketing scam.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Aug 28, 2017 - 11:43am PT
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Many appreciate(d) the dirtbags of their prior generations and even their friends of the current generation.
The reason for this isn't marketing. It is a recognition, that even though they had very little, their dedication to their craft, art, lifestyle was palpable. It meant that much to them. Caves in the Valley. Back behind HVC. wherever.
The point is that dirtbag is an external label, and that label can be endearing/respectful or it can be pejorative and used to put down.
Tone is everything. May we all desire to be as dedicated as a dirtbag, but never have so little that we are forced to be hidden away as a dirtbag.
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Aug 28, 2017 - 12:07pm PT
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Jaybro has got a point. I imagine a "real" dirtbag climber could care less about the label, and if they are or aren't one. They are just out doing what they do, making choices like we all do, and I would think (for the most part) digging the life they live. I do suspect that time is a much more precious commodity for the lowly weekend warrior such as myself, than those who wake up on any given day and think to themselves "wonder what I'll climb today"...
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Aug 28, 2017 - 08:01pm PT
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Do you think the dirtbag thing is part of the reason for the bf/gf age ratio cliche ?
30something male climber dirtbags vs 50 year old men that are ok with a nice room with a shower, dinner somewhere, etc
Maybe this is part of the whole half your age +7 ?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
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Aug 28, 2017 - 08:58pm PT
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Rock climbers didn't invent this, the beatnicks did, one generation before the hippies. It's no coincidence Jack Kerouac lived in Denver, or Hunter S Thompson. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is a book I read as a kid, explains how to travel and sleep in the dirt by the side of the road, all you need is motorcycle tools. Although ... it used to be OK to actually pull over and sleep by the side of the road in the West. Now you are lucky to find an empty campsite for $25.
The other part of the dirtbag experience is to move to a third world country and live and work there for a while. I don't mean backpacking, I mean renting an apartment and working, and spending time with people who make about $10 a day. That will really change your perspective on American wealth and materialism.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 29, 2017 - 08:36am PT
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Now you are lucky to find an empty campsite for $25.
Not a matter of luck. Free (and legal) eclipse campsite:
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 29, 2017 - 08:39am PT
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When hiring a dirtbag to schlep your pig up to the base, it is important to choose the skinniest and poorest looking one you can find, for he is likely to be the most desperate, and will work the cheapest.
Do not approach him wearing your best Patagucci outfit, however, or he will correctly surmise that you have money. Instead where your most ghetto climbing clothes from Walmart or Sally Ann, and look almost as desperate as him.
Under no circumstances should you hire a well-dressed faux dirtbag, for you will have to pay too much. And don't even THINK of hiring one of the pros from YOSAR, or you will pay union scale.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Aug 29, 2017 - 09:06am PT
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Don't listen to the Canadian subject of the queen. He's not one of the good Canadians. He's one of those racist, colonialist, creepy drunk Insurance peddlers with money but no soul. Anita needs a real man who will give her a ring and babies. Kick rocks, jackweed.
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| Messages 1 - 150 of total 150 in this topic |
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What is your opinion on dirtbags? If you hate them, tell me why.
Let us know!