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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"According to Everytown for Gun Safety, the incident is the 45th shooting at a school so far this year. "
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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shitty...
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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OMG 45 this year!
Shame on you
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philo
climber
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142 since Sandyhook.
I can't wait for the usual characters post up to inform us how little we know when we misuse lingo like "assault" rifle and the like. And how if only they'd been the good guy with the gun. Then they can tell us exactly what ammo, and gun would have been more effective. Yada yada yada yea!
Hey Hey Hey NRA how many kids did you kill today?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So if y'all can grab a paper bag and treat your hyperventilation take a few
moments to read this article by Sam Harris, the founder of Project Reason,
PhD neuroscientist, and highly-acclaimed author...
The Riddle of the Gun
Warning: it contains no hysterical rhetoric of any sort.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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'Hyperventilation'? More like a 'disgusted, deeply saddened sigh'.
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philo
climber
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Apogee you beat me to it. Disgust is not something you "hyperventilate" Over.
But no surprise the knee jerks are prowling.
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10b4me
Social climber
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I blame Obama.
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philo
climber
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Add the 179 school shootings between Columbine and Sandyhook to the 142 since and you get a lot of dead people dismissed by those defending their indefensible misinterpretation of the 2nd Ammendment.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Oh good, another day, another opportunity to use this gem;
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
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philo
climber
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What stops a "good guy" with a gun from becoming a "bad guy" with a gun?
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Obama's fault, for sure
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Good guys don't become bad guys.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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You know what the problem is with your Country, anita? Not enough guns.
Maybe if you guys had more guns, you'd stop being so goddam nice.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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What stops a "good guy" with a gun from becoming a "bad guy" with a gun?
Genetically engineer good people, they will know what to do with the guns. Sterilize the current generation and wait for them to die off.
Simple scientific solution and may soon be fetusible.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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If we didn't have such a patsy for prez, none of this would happen.
Add this one to the Benghazi cocktail, I mean Shirley Temple.
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philo
climber
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It's not a stupid question Jody its worth asking. Your response was moronic. Look at Australia as an example of what can be done.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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It's definitely the fault of Jesus hating liberal fags.
More guns is the only answer.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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I'll bite:
What stops a "good guy" with a gun from becoming a "bad guy" with a gun?
Let me ask you this: What stops Philo from going down to his favorite legal dispensary, buying a bunch of pot brownies from his buds, getting even way more wasted than his normal self then driving his Prius into a busload of nuns?
I believe it is a sense of morality, but what do I know I am a proud gun owner.
Sounds like a horrible tragedy. I was in Roseburg this summer. It seemed like a peaceful little logging town. My condolences to those who lost loved ones.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Stupid question...not even worthy of an answer. Philo beat me to the punch. Not a stupid question (a pretty good one actually), just a really stupid answer.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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My condolences to the families and friends of those struck down.
I could politicize about this, but what is the use. The same old voices will come out in various factors. I have learned that on this forum and in real life, people's opinions do not change much, for the most part. Eyes stayed blinkered or indeed, wearing rose-tinetd glasses. The kool-aid tastes good. People set in mindsets, without the freedom to really think for themselves. I have fallen into that trap myself, especially regarding personal issues.
A diverse humanity that clings to being myopic. Woods, trees? No thought, no brains?
Blame Obama, blame the cops, blame the Dems, blame the GOPs, blame Castro, blame ISIS, blame the cop-haters. blame Hilary, blame Putin, blame the KKK, the ACLU and other radicals, blame trump, blame the almighty, blame Planned Parenthood, blame all of Congress, blame...
...blame my navel.
Another black, sad day in history.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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I'd prefer a ban on handguns.
Mass, random shootings are not the real problem, impulsive and accidental shootings are.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Another black, sad day in history.
So true. More heart ache.
Susan
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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May I please add to my previous post…
I am as confused as some people, about the "mysteries", "inadequacies", "inequalities", heck pick any words, of life.
Some nutcase goes crazy in Oregon. Some nutcase goes crazy in Damascus. Some nutcase goes crazy in the Pentagon or the Kremlin, or Iran or North Korea, or Modesto. Some nutcase goes crazy in Senate, the White House, or a bible college. Or in ISIS, or in…
And we can sit here and pontificate (I used that word earlier in another thread, I wonder if I know what it means), those who claim to have years of experience in SAR, military, baby creches, or just downtown cinemas.
And yet, life continues, for better of for worse. I do not know what happened today in Oregon. I have not sat on an aircraft carrier watching..., or been an LEO pointing guns at people or having guns pointed at me (well, once in Yosemite, but that's another story I have told).
I do not know shet eff all. But I do know that there are plenty of good people out there, some who agree with me, and some who do not. But we do not resort to extremes to push our points. Maybe a bit of name calling and ad hominem attacks (not me, I hope).
I occasionally surf other websites and forums, and the vitriol, the hatred that can come out. Even in the US the divisiveness, the poison.
Are we not better as intelligent sentient beings to arise above such hostility?
Reasonable discourse? Yes.
Madness and hatred? No.
Is it perpetual?
What happened today in Oregon?
I don't know, but it will not shake my belief in humanity. It just saddens me to no end.
And then people will jump on the bandwagons. Right or wrong.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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…though rates of gun homicide in the United States are still much higher than those in other developed nations.
That's the part I'd focus on. How come the "Greatest Nation on Earth" isn't leading the way? Is your ability to compensate for other shortcomings really worth the baggage it entails?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Anybody read the article I posted by someone who disses the NRA and is in
favor of strict gun control? I didn't expect so - it might challenge some
of your cherished misconceptions.
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c wilmot
climber
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While people work on passing "yes means yes" laws that if interpreted literally would mean college kids risk rape charges without a written contract-these kids remain stressed out and often mentally ill.
Bickering about guns and how to control their social lives even more will do nothing.
perhaps its how society is treating this demographic that is the issue rather than the guns that have historically always been available. this is a new phenom- obviously society is failing our youth
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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The one w the logical fallacy about how an arms race("I can't defend myself against someone bigger and stronger than me, so I'll get a gun, bet he won't think of that") will prevent more violence?
Yep, read it, less offensively stupid than much of what I've read on the topic, but still full of holes.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I read about half of it, Reilly...it's pretty much where I stand, too.
Still, the gun-nutz extremists can't understand such a nuanced position...they have been perfectly programmed by the NRA to accept no compromise on anything.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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One more add to my two posts on this thread.
I have my hands full in life trying to cope with everyday issues, with Jennie being in a nursing home for the foreseeable future, with money problems (who doesn't?)
Yet, we do have the time to sit on Suptertopo and other forums to express our views. What a luxury many do not have. And I count my blessings and the heavens above.
I cannot claim to be a chief or a SAR superstar, or a 5.15 climber or climbing the Cassin Ridge blindfolded. Or sufing with dophins or great whites (well, Santa Cruz and Monterey, one never knows).
I do not know what happened in Oregon, just what I read.
I do know some of the shyte I read on this forum, the chest-beating, the brow-beating, those who have years of "experience" who dictate, and those who are noobs.
As for me, heck people, I still have to take off my shoes to count to 20.
As an ex-catholic turned atheist, I just hope that there is a special place in the heavens for the many poor souls that die needlessly, in Oregon and beyond. At the hands of the ill. Be it in the name of God, country, or one's own "fantasies and realities", it is not right.
But then, life is fair. Isn't it?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Anybody read the article I posted by someone who disses the NRA and is in favor of strict gun control? I didn't expect so - it might challenge some of your cherished misconceptions.
Yes, I read it. Well written, and well thought out.
As I interpret it, his view is that the problem of gun violence in America lies with Americans, not with guns. Or, maybe more accurately, that the solution, if there is one, lies with Americans.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Take the guns away it is time to grow up.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Whell, if you want to categorize mass murderers, White Christian males top all categories.
I'm way more scared of them than ISIS.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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^^^
FAKT!!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Libs love to make up stuff like the above (it's all white Christians, and I'm really really afraid of them!))
If you look at the facts, whites and blacks commit mass shootings at about their percentage of the population, and for who knows what reason, Asians commit a lot more, Latinos a lot less.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/27/us/mass-shootings/
"If you look at the whole list, it turns out that whites and blacks are pretty proportionate to their population, very close," said Dave Cullen, author of the book "Columbine," which tells the story of the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Harris and Klebold, the shooters there, were white.
Historically, Latinos and Asians have been the exception . . .
"Latinos are almost nowhere to be seen," Cullen told CNN's "New Day." "Asians continue to be heavily overrepresented -- more than 2½ times their size in the population."
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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A sad day.
Condolences to the families and friends of those killed.
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David Lewis
Trad climber
North Conway,New Hampshire
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If one were to get all firearms out of the hands of both the citizens and most of the police it would stop some of the deaths but the deep underlying cause would still prevail. We have an attitude problem in this country which is very complex. Stress and economic factors are big drivers of the violence we see happening but there is much more that contributes to it. The problem with banning firearms in this country can be quickly evaluated by looking at the ban on drugs which we all know doesn't work.
Panama with its strict gun control is contemplating a reversal to get armed law abiding citizens to help stop the massive gun problems they have with the criminal element. We do not have a gun problem when suicides by firearm are taken out of the equation in comparison to other highly developed nations (they have comparable suicide rates using other means thus giving false stats). I don't have an immediate solution to our problem if I thought for 1 second that an all out ban on firearms would work I would help round them up. Statistics by the CDC directed by the Obama administration did not indicate a ban would work which might explain why we do not see them.
Most importantly: I want to express my sincere condolences to all those close to this tragic event
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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FACT..No new legislation will occur. Fact several 1000 other people died in the US today.
Fact Research into Cancer and heart Disease..investment in Universal Healthcare and healthcare cost reform will save more lives than ANY effort in gun control...
NONE OF THIS WILL CHANGE ANY OF THIS.
WHY?? Because your government does not work for the people. It works for those who elect them...Wealthy interests only. You have no say until you focus on a workable solution.
Once enough people FOCUS on a workable solution then positive change will occur. Until then.. I'm gunna have a good life anyway until I die.
I feel lucky to live in a country where I have the ability to keep my head down below the radar and enjoy some freedom.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Meh Jody..this sad tragedy doesn't even come close to a top ten list of serious threats to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness in this land.
Gun control WONT HAPPEN..and really has little impact on the majority anyway..
Sadly the things that do matter wont be addressed anytime soon either...
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Maybe un-civil libertarians nightmare
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jody, what a bunch of BS. Of course good guys can become bad guys.
Every time this sh#t comes up we hear what a nice young man he was from those that knew him. Rarely does anyone say "that was one sick f*#k from day one."
Why have so many police been arrested for rape, murder, domestic violence? It's not because police departments try to hire psychos.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Japan's low crime rate is not about gun control, it is about people control. It is a civil libertarian's nightmare.
Explain Britain please, or New Zealand or Australia.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"What is to stop a good guy flying a jetliner from becoming a bad guy flying a jetliner? What is to stop a good guy driving a gas tanker truck from becoming a bad guy driving a gas tanker truck? What is to stop a good guy pool maintenance man with chlorine gas from becoming a bad guy pool maintenance man with chlorine gas?"
Ummm....we aren't talking about that kind of mayhem right now. We're talking about gun violence right now.
Why do you keep trying to change the channel?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Ummm....we aren't talking about that kind of mayhem right now. We're talking about gun violence right now
We also are not talking about Australia, Britain, or Mars.
Perhaps a better comparison would be Libya, Iraq, or Pluto?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Comparing gun violence in this country against gun violence in other countries is pretty much apples to apples.
Comparing gun violence to a chlorine-laden truck is not.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Violence is loved and respected in the United States.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Bob D'A writes:
"Japan's low crime rate is not about gun control, it is about people control. It is a civil libertarian's nightmare."
"Explain Britain please, or New Zealand or Australia."
Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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i am all for rights of gun owners. i have 4 in the house. but we should have to register all guns under the threat of a felony.
if we are found to be whacked out, priors etc, then you lose the right.
this is getting f*#king ridiculous and the f*#ked up nra (national retard association) will be making commercials and sending message tomorrow.
f*#king pathetic.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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How about this for an alternative start to fixing the problem - banning violent videos, games and TV.
That's right, I said it.
And stop worshiping at the alter of the tough guy with a gun.
Wouldn't that be a good start? Kids these days have grown up in a society awash with stylized and approved violence. Its part and parcel to being American. Well we can stop doing that just like we can stop selling guns. Don't need no laws either. Just need to stop purchasing it.
Guns and violence, that is. Stop buying them. Stop selling them.
DMT
ps. copy cat violence didn't start in the last decade. Guys like Clint Eastwood set the bar for how men are supposed to solve their problems... with violence. Enjoy!
i dont disagree that violence on media is a problem. but lets face it, if you cant distinguish between a video game and killing college kids then your f*#ked up and it wont matter.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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""Explain Britain please, or New Zealand or Australia."
Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela
Homicides by firearms are 0.13 (average) per 100,000 for Britain, New Zealand and Australia, The US average is 2.97 per 100,000.
Mexico is almost 10, Brazil is double that and Venezuela is a staggering 38.77.
Wouldn't it be nice if we were more like the other first world countries?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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you can see the repug congress now, supporting the right to bear arms but still in a frenzy over fraudulent planned parenthood videos.
can someone honestly tell me this country is not f*#ked up?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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What's it take to be a First World country that Brazil doesn't have, Bob?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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What I know, Jody, is that every time this issue of extreme gun violence comes up, the gun nut extremists respond with every manner of non-sequiter, false equivalency argument they can find to obfuscate the focus away from the central issue of any given gun-related massacre: GUNS
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10b4me
Social climber
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How about this for an alternative start to fixing the problem - banning violent videos, games and TV.
That's right, I said it.
And stop worshiping at the alter of the tough guy with a gun.
Wouldn't that be a good start? Kids these days have grown up in a society awash with stylized and approved violence. Its part and parcel to being American. Well we can stop doing that just like we can stop selling guns. Don't need no laws either. Just need to stop purchasing it.
Guns and violence, that is. Stop buying them. Stop selling them.
DMT
ps. copy cat violence didn't start in the last decade. Guys like Clint Eastwood set the bar for
how men are supposed to solve their problems... with violence. Enjoy!
actually, it started before Clint. Go back to earlier times, when John Wayne, and his cohorts killed those damn injuns, and later those damn gooks. American male society is inherently violent, and is not mature enough to rid itself of this proclivity.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"The only way to make sure criminals don't get guns is to confiscate and destroy ALL of them and then make 100% sure no more are ever made....do you have a way to guarantee that?"
That's the kind of overly-simplistic, unrealistic position that gets absolutely nowhere with the problem.
There is a middle ground on this issue, and it doesn't involve the extremes of destroying every gun on the planet, or giving guns away in cereal boxes.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Where do these shooters find the message that using a gun to deal with their issues is how to act things out?
The cultural framework of gun violence is likely found in the messages utilized by the gun lobby to garner public support for their product...
... the culture surrounding guns needs to be considered.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"More gun control will not stop the problem, because it's a heart problem."
Really, so it is a muscle problem.
Guns are just one part of the equation.
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Gene
climber
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What's wrong with people? Why can't they understand that the continuing periodic slaughter of random folks in our churches, schools, and work places is just a down payment on the price of freedom?
g
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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If GUNS were the problem, with about 300 million in private hands in the US, there would be a LOT more crimes committed with them than there are.
Nah Judy, most of those are in the hands of "responsible gun owners". Course, if we have to inconvenience them to achieve even a slight reduction in deaths by firearms, I'm all for it. I'm not too worried about your paranoid fantasies.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I'm gonna slide right into the analogy thing I just called out, but...
We don't outlaw & destroy all table saws because thousands of fingers get cut off every year, do we?
Why can't you see any other solution between destroying every gun on the planet, and complete, unrestricted, unfettered access to any kind of gun anyone wants to get their hands on?
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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The only way to make sure criminals don't get guns is to confiscate and destroy ALL of them and then make 100% sure no more are ever made
I'm all for it, Jody. Jesus would approve.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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QuotThe only way to make sure criminals don't get guns is to confiscate and destroy ALL of them and then make 100% sure no more are ever made....do you have a way to guarantee that?e Here
Jody, my gripe is not with guns, but with the culture that has been fostered about them as something other than as tools for sport, hunting, and as collectible objects.
When they are sold as a method to make one safer in their daily activities and for protecting the castle, the act of promoting that aspect fosters paranoia and diminishes civic life.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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People are sheep.
The NRA has proven that.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Watching Hannity--he's saying the shooter seemed to be motivated by anti-Christian belief.
He'd ask victims if they were Christian: yes got a shot in the head, no got a shot in the leg.
Not sure accurate this will prove to be.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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After reading Reilly's link - which was excellent - I realized something interesting.
He is right, and I am somewhat on the flip side of his perspective - but still similar.
I get people that own guns - it doesn't define their relationships with people.
They just have guns, and that is OK with me because EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW WITH A GUN IS A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.
I have no reason to judge them - they have given me no reason to change my perspective.
The INCIDENTAL REACTIVITY of the anti-gun people is ludicrous and, as stated in the article, completely unfounded in the statistics.
So, you have gun nuts stocking ammo because the libs want to shut them down, creating reactionism and fear on both sides.
I have never been in a fight in my life. Never hit anyone in anger, never owned a gun (except for the Xmas gift bb-gun putting a robin's eye out on my third shot ever and having it spurt blood and die in front of me at 11)...
I still get it - if I had a family to protect, if I was a food hunter, or subsistence hunter (like the Alaskans where I spent 8 summers), or just liked shooting sh#t (which I don't, but I again get).
The problem lies in the control, I think - it polarizes, and takes away from the real issues.
Jesus, I can't believe I just posted to a gun thread.
Again - excellent article Reilly - thanks.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"A lot of you"
Names, please?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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You've obviously drawn the conclusion that anyone who questions unfettered gun access in any of these related threads is therefore one of the 'a lot of you'.
That's an easy conclusion to reach within a forum like this, but further from the truth than you'd concluded, no doubt.
In any case, I don't have any idea exactly who you would consider to be part of the 'a lot of you' you are referring to.
Edit: And I'd say it's incumbent on you...no-one else...to give examples of who those people are.
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John M
climber
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Conversely, many places with highly restrictive gun laws like Chicago and Oakland have extremely high gun violence.
The chicago example isn't that good of an example because its easy enough to travel outside the city and still buy guns..For gun control to have an effect, it must be nationwide and it must be difficult to get them over the border.
A heart that lacks love, and allows evil and hate to direct it, will find any way to destroy innocent lives.
Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer.
More gun control will not stop the problem, because it's a heart problem.
I agree that it is a heart problem. Heartlessness is rampant in this country. Yet shouldn't we try to do something about the symptoms while dealing with the root issue? Guns are easier to use then making bombs. The Columbine shooting is a good example of that. That kid tried to use bombs, but they didn't work. The guns did.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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52 Shootings and 8 dead all with illegally acquired weapons just this past weekend alone in So Chicago.
Tally of people shot DEAD in So Chicago to date, 375.
Not one peep from the Media nor the Potus.
Wonderful
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DanaB
climber
CT
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EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW WITH A GUN IS A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.
My experience living in West Philadelphia was a bit different.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Not one peep from the Media
Bob beat me to it, and he's right. I saw a lot of news stories about it.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Not a peep from the President.
Not something he can politicize.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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As a liberal tree-hugger, gun-owner, I am very sad about the mostly young & mentally-disturbed males who are resorting to gun-violence to solve, what to them must be very real problems.
Although I am not familiar with GLilligard, his post tonight does agree with some of my thoughts about this epidemic of disturbed teens shooting their classmates:
What has changed? The mindset of teenage males. What has occurred that causes them to overreact and murder people over being "bullied" or marginalized (and what adolescent male in the history of the world has never felt bullied or marginalized?)?
1) A lack of substantive interaction with strong adult personalities who
could teach them how to deal with their feels and how to become a man.
2) Thousands of hours of committing extreme violence and causing thousands of virtual death that has absolutely zero emotional cost or commitment. "First-person shooter" video games are the emotional equivalent of the simulators used to train pilots. No sane child could kill so many real animals "for fun".
I do blame video games & the TV culture of shooting series & movies fostered on young minds, until shooting people is ingrained in our national culture as a solution.
I’m not at all excited about youth interaction with strong adult personalities as a solution to the shooting their peers problem, but I do endorse programs that teach youth “self-esteem” through teaching them outdoor skills & encouraging them to rely on their own skills and minds.
I am thinking back to 1964 and Drivers Training. Before we Idaho teens could get our license, we of course had to do some driving and also see some movies about the carnage cars could cause. At age 15, we got to watch explicit after-crash movies of dead people in and around cars & horribly-burnt corpses in cars. Those images have stayed with me.
Perhaps, our nation needs to start mandatory classes on responsible firearm use, along with showing graphic videos of wounded & dead people resulting from shootings.
After, or concurrent with those classes, perhaps testing and counseling could identify those who might have a future problem with firearm mis-use.
Unfortunately, here in America, the land of equal opportunity, we can’t legally deny the right to drive or own firearms, unless the person has a previous criminal record.
Maybe that needs to change too.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Goal post are moving again.
See how long it take for Chief to delete his post/posts.
I blame mental illness and easy access to guns that are meant to kill many people in the shortest time possible.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Obama only cares about gun fatalities if it fits into his PC political agenda."
Well, that's something better than the past POTUS who didn't give a second of media time to any of the massacres that happened on his watch.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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52 Shootings and 8 dead all with illegally acquired weapons just this past weekend alone in So Chicago.
Tally of people shot DEAD in So Chicago to date, 1 Oct 2015, 375.
Not one peep from the Media nor the Potus on Monday. Nothing. Zipp.
Goal post are moving again.
That of course was directed to the POTUS at his press conference this afternoon.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Great post Fritz...I think that is all Obama is asking for, from his speech tonight.
“And what’s become routine, of course, is the response of those who oppose any kind of common-sense gun legislation,” Mr. Obama said. “Right now I can imagine the press releases being cranked out. ‘We need more guns,’ they’ll argue. ‘Fewer gun-safety laws.’ ”
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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So Fritz, BOBda and rest of you loons, how IS any MORE gun legislation on top of the over 400 laws currently in place going to stop this..
52 Shootings and 8 dead all with illegally acquired weapons just this past weekend alone in So Chicago.
Tally of people shot DEAD in So Chicago to date, 1 Oct 2015, 375.
EDIT: More innocent people have been killed in So Chicago just to date, mostly by illegally acquired weapons, than ALL the school shootings combined since 1990.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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It's freaking OREGON, not Chicago - are you simple?
You know, the bastion of liberalism and hippy-change.
Oregon-fukking-Country-Fair sh1t.
Not Chicago.
To re-cap:
1. not # of murders in Chicago
2. Mass shooting at a campus in very liberal state.
Keep spinning those numbers, though - it's like reactive puppy-chow.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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The Chief? I thought I posted some thoughts that might interest you?
Apparently you are on a big-roll of being Mr. Negative.
DO YOU??
HAVE A SOLUTION??
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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OH... So that is perfectly OK to have ...
52 Shootings and 8 dead all with illegally acquired weapons just this past weekend alone in So Chicago.
Tally of people shot DEAD in So Chicago to date, 1 Oct 2015, 375.
But GDAMN,,,, not in Oregon!
Gotcha, E.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Washington Post, can't you fools even try to use the google machine before you, ah why even try. . .
"In Washington, a visibly frustrated President Obama offered prayers for the victims and their families and quickly pivoted to repeat his call for stricter gun-safety laws, something he has done throughout his presidency to no avail."
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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HAVE A SOLUTION??
Yeah, how bout we start enforcing the over 400 Fed and Local gun laws in place. EVERYWHERE.
Here's a fact for ya'll, and Jody can back me up on this...
Most individuals in possession of an illegal weapon get minimal if any jail time for their first and second offense. The statistics that those individuals use an illegal weapon in the commission of a felony is staggering. Yet most do little or no time and are NOT held accountable.
Take the guns away from the law abiding citizens but leave them in the hands of the thugs and criminals.
Wonderful. Now that is just plain, wonderful.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Thanks for your NIMBY concession, The Chief.
I know it was difficult for you, but it is appreciated.
Us Westys...you know.
;)
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John M
climber
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If your solution can 100% guarantee to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, let's hear it.
as a law enforcement officer, surely you support laws that aren't 100 percent effective..
why don't we have nationwide gun laws? As I said earlier, Chicago can have all the gun control laws in the world, but if you can drive a short ways down the road and get guns easily, then Chicagos laws won't have much effect.
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John M
climber
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come on Jody.. stop ignoring my point. Surely you understand that..
or should I just stop calling you Shirley?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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As I said earlier, Chicago can have all the gun control laws in the world, but if you can drive a short ways down the road and get guns easily, then Chicagos laws won't have much effect.
Drive down the road??
Are you kidding me. They walk down to the corner then down the alley way. Bingo, a "Chopper" here, "Glocker" there, M10er here....30Sticker here...
90plus % of all illegal weapons come over the Mexican border. Most of those weapons are not even manufactured here in the US.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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The Chief: Of course, I should never accuse someone like you of being out in left field, and totally off-topic. But you are on this thread.
Wake up & notice the thread title.
Get over hating Obama for a few beats, and answer the topic, or find another thread to spew on.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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John M writes:
"why don't we have nationwide gun laws? As I said earlier, Chicago can have all the gun control laws in the world, but if you can drive a short ways down the road and get guns easily, then Chicagos laws won't have much effect."
How come the murders are all happening in Chicago? Instead of down the road where the guns are?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Get over hating Obama for a few beats, and answer the topic,
This is the topic. But you people NEVER post shet when it happens every weekend in So Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore etc etc.
Only when it's in ... Ct, Oregon or any other upbeat middle class community or when a white insane fk shoots up a church.
I didn't see a thread by BOBda or anyone else of you anti gun loons this past Monday morning that read...
"8 Gunned Down In So Chicago"
or the Monday prior ..
"7 Gunned Down In So Chicago"
Or the last Monday in Aug that read...
"12 Gunned Down Saturday night alone So. Chicago"
Why?
EDIT:
And, I thought you all were in support of the Black Lives Matter movement?
Apparently NOT!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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The Chief?
you people
Make's you sound like a southern racist, or a British liberal, or a German Nazi.
Are
you people
anyone that disagrees with you?
I'm not aware that
you people
involves everyone else on earth that disagrees with you, or in my case tonight, offered up some original thoughts (of course, you hate original thoughts).
But then, you are off & running on a major rant & rave, and why should little people like me interupt Das Chief?
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John M
climber
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Chaz,
reducing the numbers or guns or making them more difficult to get isn't going to solve the angst in Chicago. As Cragman pointed out, the problem has a different root. As he says, its a heart problem. Or a lack of heart. You cram a bunch of people together, and don't create jobs, and add in a history of poverty, and you get the violence that happens there. So reducing the guns won't stop all of the violence, but ignoring the availability of guns is also not a good thing. Gun control won't solve this kind of problem, but it might help slow it down.
We close bars at 2 AM because we know some people can't control themselves. Does it cure every alcohol problem? Nope.. but I still believe that it is a good idea to make it more difficult for people to destroy themselves.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey Fritz, focus and read very slowly, I even bolded it out and underlined it....
I didn't see a thread by BOBda or anyone else of you anti gun loons this past Monday morning that read...
"8 Gunned Down In So Chicago"
or the Monday prior ..
"7 Gunned Down In So Chicago"
Or the last Monday in Aug that read...
"12 Gunned Down Saturday night alone So. Chicago"
Why?
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10b4me
Social climber
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What about this "gun culture" encourages shootings of innocent people?
The power of the gun.
I blame mental illness
Bob, except hopefully, everyone who buys a gun, is not mentally ill.
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John M
climber
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Chief, there are lots of threads on gun violence. The problem in Chicago hasn't been ignored. One can't go on and on about every problem. It gets exhausting. Why can't you figure that out? You keep trying to say that we must not care because we didn't say anything about this or that death, but its just not true. So would you let that argument die. It doesn't hold water.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Guys like Clint Eastwood set the bar for how men are supposed to solve their problems... with violence.
Sadly, the glorification of the Great American Gunslinger began way before Clint. Penny Dreadful novels in the 1850s through the advent of radio taught generations about shoot-em-ups. Radio brought us numerous Westerns and True Detective shows where many a Foley Artist made a good living simulating gunshots. Lastly, the televised world view - I spent hours of my youth watching Roy and Hoppy and Marshall Matt shoot their way to salvation for the town.
Now you can make a case that what changed in the "Clint" era of the 1970's was a perverse fascination with gritty realism. Film directors wanted street cred - so for the first time we began to see gunshots explode on the victim - remember the hysteria over Peckinpah's "The Wild Bunch" - OMG - you can see the bullet holes!. But this shock soon faded such that splatters of squib blood even showed up in Saturday morning cartoons!
That era in my mind really laid down the framework for acceptance of more explicit violence and gore that was exasperated by the "Horror" movie explosion in the 1980's where you could get entire theaters full of people to laugh at loud at a chainsaw dismemberment.
Add the advent of First Person Shooter video game technology that continues to this day and you eventually realize that we are now on the 3rd generation of people molded by media and technology to be immune to violence in all forms.
To the point where not a day goes by where some act of brutal violence does not appear on a RSS news feed - be it some localized cop beating or some family shoot-em-up to yet another Mass Murder episode. All the while this domestic play of carnage is played out against a 20 year backdrop of perpetual sanctioned violence in the Middle East.
My real fear is that this pattern of striking out for revenge against perceived wrongs becomes so commonplace that we become numb and accepting of it's inevitability.
Violence as the New Normal.
If that is the case, then does it end only when there aren't enough people left to kill?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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You cram a bunch of people together, and don't create jobs, and add in a history of poverty, and you get the violence that happens there..
Here's a person that You can thank specific for that..
And this individual is in a long line of those people that "Don't create jobs"..
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John M
climber
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There is plenty of blame to go around Chief. Both dems and republicans..
Trickle down economics is one of my pet peeves.
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philo
climber
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THURSDAY, NOV 13, 2014 05:00 AM MST
I was wrong about the Second Amendment: Why my view of guns totally changed
I used to think calls for gun safety reform were overblown. Then the world changed -- and with it everything I knew
PHILIP GULLEY
TOPICS: GUNS, GUN CONTROL, CONSTITUTION, SECOND AMENDMENT, EDITOR'S PICKS, SANDY HOOK, VIOLENCE, GUN VIOLENCE, CONFEDERATES, HITLER, MILITIA, NRA, FERGUSON, POLITICS NEWS
I was wrong about the Second Amendment: Why my view of guns totally changed
A photo of the author
Noah Pozner did nothing to change my mind, except die. Before he died, I believed a few sensible gun laws could save children like Noah Pozner. After he died, after he and his Sandy Hook classmates were mowed down by a man with a gun, I changed my mind.
After he died, I realized an old custom had to die with him, so a nobler one could take its place. Before Noah Pozner died, I thought there was nothing wrong with the Second Amendment a little common sense couldn’t fix. After he died, I’ve come to believe “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms” no longer promotes our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but daily threatens them. How free are we when more people are shot and killed each year in America than populate the towns in which many of us live? How free are we when a backpack that unfolds into a bulletproof covering is a must-have item for schoolchildren
“A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”
While I concede that a well-regulated militia might be necessary to the security of a free state, that role is now ably served by our military, professionally trained and highly disciplined, drawn from the ranks of our families and friends, from whom we have nothing to fear. We no longer need Minutemen. The British have not surrounded Concord. This is not “Independence Day” and we’re not under alien attack. I cannot imagine any circumstance in which our government would urge us to arm ourselves in defense of our country. Our nation has outgrown its need for an armed citizenry. The disadvantages of widespread gun ownership far outweigh any perceived advantage. Ask the parents of Noah Pozner. Ask African-American residents of Ferguson, Missouri. Ask what America’s love affair with guns has meant to them.
The merit of a position can be gauged by the temperament of its supporters, and these days the NRA reminds me of the folks who packed the courtroom of the Scopes monkey trial, fighting to preserve a worldview no thoughtful person espoused. This worship of guns grows more ridiculous, more difficult to sustain, and they know it, hence their theatrics, their parading through Home Depot and Target, rifles slung over shoulders. Defending themselves, they say. From what, from whom? I have whiled away many an hour at Home Depots and Targets and never once come under attack.
They remind me of the Confederates who fought to defend the indefensible, sacrificing the lives of others in order to preserve some dubious right they alone valued. They would rather die, armed to the teeth, than live in a nation free of guns and their bitter harvest. You can have my gun when you pry it from around my cold, dead fingers, their bumper stickers read. How empty their lives must be if life without a gun is not worth living.
The first thing Hitler did was confiscate guns, the gun lovers warn, a bald lie if ever there was one. But let’s suspend reality and imagine it was true. Where is the Hitler in Canada, in England, in Sweden, in every other civilized nation whose citizens have resolved to live without guns? Let the NRA trot out its tired canard about the housewife whose husband thoughtfully armed her, who shot the intruder and saved her family. I will tell you about the father who mistook his son for a burglar and shot him dead, about the man who rigged a shotgun in his barn to discourage thievery and accidentally slew his precious little girl when she entered the barn to play with her kittens.
What drives this fanaticism? Can I venture a guess? Have you noticed the simultaneous increase in gun sales and the decline of the white majority? After the 2010 census, when social scientists predicted a white minority in America by the year 2043, we began to hear talk of “taking back our country.” Gun shops popped up like mushrooms, mostly in the white enclaves of America’s suburbs and small towns. One can’t help wondering if the zeal for weaponry has been fueled by the same dismal racism that has propelled so many social ills.
When I was growing up, our schools and colleges were unmatched, our medical care unrivaled, our infrastructure state-of-the-art, our opportunities unlimited. America set the gold standard. We can be great again, but not without addressing the fear and ignorance that feed our gun culture, for no nation can ascend until it cures the virus of violence. We cannot let the most fearful among us set our nation’s tone, lest we descend to that sorry state we labored centuries to rise above. It is time for America to grow up, to become adults, so that children like Noah Pozner have a fighting chance to do the same.
A Quaker pastor, author and speaker, Philip Gulley received his masters of divinity degree from Christian Theological Seminary, and is co-pastor of Fairfield Friends Meeting in Camby, Indiana. He is also the author of “Living the Quaker Way: Timeless Wisdom for a Better Life Today” by Convergent
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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If everyone was packen it wouldn't happen.
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John M
climber
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Everyone was packing in the wild wild west. Plenty of gun violence then.
In fact, many towns in order to become civilized forced their citizens and visitors to check their guns while they were in town. Can you imagine that today?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Hey Chief!
Try to focus (rare, but possible for you) and read very, very slowly.
It’s ok to mouth the words too & I know that’s hard for mouth-breathers.
Thanks to all, but the chief & a couple other mentally-challenged folks, for posting up some great & sympathetic thoughts on this thread about ten college students gunned down in Oregon.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Thanks to all, but the chief & a couple other mentally-challenged folks, for posting up some great & sympathetic thoughts on this thread about ten college students gunned down in Oregon.
Yeah...
And fk the all them innocent people that have been "gunned down" in So Chicago this year...
ALL 375 of them.
They DON'T matter.
If everyone was packen it wouldn't happen.
Bingo...
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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I was always on the fence about "assault rifles" until this past winter. I never saw a use for one other than killing people. That has changed. I have a feral pig problem on my farm. A high capacity magazine/clip is crucial if you want to try and kill the whole sounder.
I wish I could get a clip that holds more than 20 rounds and works with my Ruger mini-30.
I hate hate breaking my rifles across the skulls of charging hogs when I run out of ammo.
Not complaining just don't make it harder for me to kill these pests.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Priceless!!!! RFLMAO!!! Thanks Q-Ball....^^^^^^^^^^^^
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John M
climber
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Its not that hard to legislate genuine need.. One could get a license for certain types of weapons based on need. A farmer killing a pest could be termed a legitimate need. Much like some pesticides have regulations limiting the general population from using them, but allowing someone with a permit to use them.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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What did he do to the non-Christians Cosmic?
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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That was an overwhelming link that Reilly posted.
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
That link suggested something like 100,000 Americans die every year because Doctors and Nurses don't wash their hands. I googled that sh#t and the truth may be even more shocking:
"between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death
That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second."
http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals
I'm not all that great with math, but does this mean something like 1,000 people died today alone (and will die tomorrow and the next) in the United States as a result of "medical errors"?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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What did he do to the non-Christians Cosmic?
Anyone that answered yes to being a "Christian" was shot point blank in the head.
If they answered NO, to being a Christian, he shot them in the lower leg or foot.
In other words, he went there with the sole intent to exterminate "Christians".
"The shooter was lining people up and asking if they were christian," a Twitter user posted.
"If they said yes, then they were shot in the head. If they said no, they were shot in the legs."
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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I'm not all that great with math, but does this mean something like 1,000 people died today alone (and will die tomorrow and the next) in the United States as a result of "medical errors"?
I always get a kick out of comparisons like this, as if they're the same as murder.
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John M
climber
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I'm going to take back my statement above. To me it seems simple to determine genuine need, but the average human seems to have a very difficult time with that.
We should all be given tanks by our government. Talk about government subsidies..
I promise a tank in every yard if you elect me president.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Albatross, no chit, hospitals are scary places - we'd best be rid of them. ;-)
Me mum just had what initially was suspected as a possible MRSA infection.
The doctor I took her to had the most appalling 'sterile technique' imaginable.
She wasn't endangering me mum, so I didn't call her on it, but she most
certainly was endangering herself, everybody that would use that exam room
afterwards, and subsequent patients. I'm a passed master of sterile technique -
thanks to the wife I am well-schooled.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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The gravy is flowing for The Chief.
Good job, reactionists.
You remind me why I don't.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Das Chief? Try to focus, & don't mouth breathe while you read this.
Re the last comment I noticed from you?
If everyone was packen it wouldn't happen.
Then??? What's your problem with my proposal?
Oct 1, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
As a liberal tree-hugger, gun-owner, I am very sad about the mostly young & mentally-disturbed males who are resorting to gun-violence to solve, what to them must be very real problems.
Although I am not familiar with GLilligard, his post tonight does agree with some of my thoughts about this epidemic of disturbed teens shooting their classmates:
What has changed? The mindset of teenage males. What has occurred that causes them to overreact and murder people over being "bullied" or marginalized (and what adolescent male in the history of the world has never felt bullied or marginalized?)?
1) A lack of substantive interaction with strong adult personalities who
could teach them how to deal with their feels and how to become a man.
2) Thousands of hours of committing extreme violence and causing thousands of virtual death that has absolutely zero emotional cost or commitment. "First-person shooter" video games are the emotional equivalent of the simulators used to train pilots. No sane child could kill so many real animals "for fun".
I do blame video games & the TV culture of shooting series & movies fostered on young minds, until shooting people is ingrained in our national culture as a solution.
I’m not at all excited about youth interaction with strong adult personalities as a solution to the shooting their peers problem, but I do endorse programs that teach youth “self-esteem” through teaching them outdoor skills & encouraging them to rely on their own skills and minds.
I am thinking back to 1964 and Drivers Training. Before we Idaho teens could get our license, we of course had to do some driving and also see some movies about the carnage cars could cause. At age 15, we got to watch explicit after-crash movies of dead people in and around cars & horribly-burnt corpses in cars. Those images have stayed with me.
Perhaps, our nation needs to start mandatory classes on responsible firearm use, along with showing graphic videos of wounded & dead people resulting from shootings.
After, or concurrent with those classes, perhaps testing and counseling could identify those who might have a future problem with firearm mis-use.
Unfortunately, here in America, the land of equal opportunity, we can’t legally deny the right to drive or own firearms, unless the person has a previous criminal record.
Maybe that needs to change too.
Is it just because you have me down as one of "you people" as it seems you have everyone that offers up any thoughts that don't agree with yours?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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You remind me why I don't.
We know....
Try to Focus here FRITZ!
375 Dead due to street violence in Chicago to date this year.
All under the watchful eyes of a Liberal Anti-Gun Loon and ex direct adviser/Chief of Staff to the POTUS..
Why?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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A MySpace profile identified as Chris Harper-Mercer from Torrance showed a young man with a shaved head and the barrel of a rifle pointing up into the frame of his portrait.
“Me, holding a rifle,” said the caption. “It was supposed to be all the way in the picture, but it didn't work out.”
Oregon shooting updates: Shooter identified as Chris Harper Mercer
Oregon shooting updates: Shooter identified as Chris Harper Mercer
Another photo on the account shows him wearing a suit for his sister’s wedding, according to the caption. Most of the images, however, showed armed gunmen from the Irish Republican Army.
Within a few hours of the shooting, FBI agents in Los Angeles fanned out to interview those who knew Mercer from his time in Torrance to help build a fuller profile of his history, beliefs and prior behavior, according to a law enforcement source familiar with the probe.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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a Myspace profile?
That's yer problem right there...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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The Chief is referring to people who want sensible gun control laws as "anti gun loons." He must also be referring to the citizens in EVERY other first world country EXCEPT the USA who have enacted such laws.
Inexorably, with every new atrocity, public opinion will continue to shift. The NRA with their "loony" unbending posistion is playing a loosing game. Every new mass killing weakons them and no new news strengthens them.
All that the gun proponents can do is thump their chests and yell louder about standing their ground....they certainly don't have logic supporting their cause. Charlton Heston. In his dotage, said something about they will have to cut his gun from his cold head hands....if that be the case, so be it.
The crazy gun culture here is American Exceptionalism in its ugliest and most inane manifestation. We would be the laughingstock of the world if it were a laughing matter.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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John M, I am a farmer. Your response sounds good on paper. How would adding more paperwork to my legal gun use help solve crazy guys from shooting up people? Remember bad guys don't follow laws.
-Q-ball
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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When I was visiting the rels up on the farm in Ontario, Canuckistan in April
we had a good old time blasting stumps and carrying on with all manner of
heavy weaponry. Every farmer up there is packing major heat but I guess
they just don't see value in shooting up schools. I don't get it.
BTW, my bro-in-law told me that in the early 70's the Canuckian military
sold 5000 FULLY AUTO ASSAULT RIFLES to the public! LOL! To this
day he doesn't think any have been used nefariously. Maybe it isn't all
the guns' fault?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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The Chief is referring to people who want sensible gun control laws as "anti gun loons.
There are over 476 Fed Gun Control Laws currently on the books.
The City of Chicago has some of the strictest Gun Control Laws in this nation and it is under the leadership of one the most staunchest Gun Control Advocate Mayors in the nation.
Yet, to date, over 375 people have been "gunned down" murdered in the streets of So Chicago. And over 3900 have been shot/wounded etc.
Why? Jim Donini? Fritz? E? BoBDA etal? Why?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Shout louder, rattle the rafters....as I said you are playing a net losing game.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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So Jim Donini, how do you stop criminals (who do most of the gun violence/murdering in this nation) that do not abide by the laws of the land, from acquiring "guns"?
Anyone??
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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You can be an illegal alien with a felony and an out of state warrant and get a firearm with an instant background check FYI...
Because you have "Sanctuary Cities" that do not report them to ICE and release them from custody without bond?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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It is easier to get a gun in Oregon than medical Marijuana
Well, no.
The other big news in Oregon today is that it's the first day you can buy marijuana products over the counter. No medical card necessary. There have been delivery services that will bring it to your house since July. PayPal only.
The Oregonian ran a headline about a "big day for a budding industry." Get it? Speculation is that it will still be cheaper and easier yo buy from your current dealer.
Gummy bears anyone?
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Every woman, man, child, and beast should be supplied with two sidearms and several automatic weapons.
24/7/365, everyone and everything is packing, all the time.
Then we'll be safe.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Every woman, man, child, and beast should be supplied with two sidearms and several automatic weapons.
24/7/365, everyone and everything is packing, all the time. I'm not sure we can handle that many people in a well regulated militia...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Because you have "Sanctuary Cities" that do not report them to ICE and release them from custody without bond?
Haha yup, also drivers licenses!
The other big news in Oregon today is that it's the first day you can buy marijuana products over the counter. No medical card necessary. There have been delivery services that will bring it to your house since July. PayPal only.
Holy shit! Talk about being a busy news day!
http://news.yahoo.com/oregon-becomes-third-u-state-allow-recreational-marijuana-110715972.html
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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bro you got a gun... you are 'one of those guys'... get ready for Bob'D and Dirtbag to hate you...
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Why? Jim Donini? Fritz? E? BoBDA etal? Why?
The price of ammo went down?
Seriously, you use Chicago with it's particular history of violence as an example? Really?
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John M
climber
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John M, I am a farmer. Your response sounds good on paper. How would adding more paperwork to my legal gun use help solve crazy guys from shooting up people? Remember bad guys don't follow laws.
-Q-ball
I would consider making all automatic weapons and assault type rifles illegal. Sales would be only to the military, the police, and those with special licenses. Thus making it more difficult for criminals to obtain them as fewer would be in existence. This would of course take time to make happen as people would hide theirs and some with licenses would sell them illegally, but I believe the number of them available would go down radically. To have full effect would of course take quite some time. You could also make people account for the weapons that they have been licensed. If too many get "stolen" from one person, that persons license could be suspended.
Just some trial thoughts. The nay sayers will of course say that it would take forever, and it wouldn't get rid of every gun. But it might reduce them greatly, making it more difficult for that depressed/ crazy kid/ potential criminal, to get ahold of.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Guns make me nervous. And when I get nervous, I can do unskillful things.
My condolences to the people affected in Oregon. (Om mani padme hung.)
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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Last gun I purchased, I had driving license, Passport, hunters safety card and they ran a background check. So.... what new laws will keep the bad or crazy guys at bay? My hint don't tell!,
No laws will keep the bad ones from doing what they do.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I was planning on getting a rifle here soon, going along on some family hunting trips... that isn't changing... lulz.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Seriously, you use Chicago with it's particular history of violence as an example? Really?
Ok.. let's see now.
How about, Baltimore? Another major gun violence stricken city under the watchful eyes of a strict gun control advocating liberal Mayor.
OR...
St. Louis... Another major gun violence stricken city under the watchful eyes of a strict gun control advocating liberal Mayor.
Or...
going along on some family hunting trips... that isn't changing
G... I suggest one of these as well:
Mossberg 590 18" 6 Shot or 20" 9 Shot w/Scope for 1675fps 1oz Slugs
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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What does the Constitution say about poorly regulated militias?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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What is scary in the Burch pic is the hand saw. Slow and agonizing. He looks a little serial also.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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What does the Constitution say about poorly regulated militias?
Actually, the constitution doesn't say anything about your right to keep and bear arms in any sentence that doesn't have "well regulated militia " in it.
The amendment is all one run-on sentence.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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What is scary in the Burch pic is the hand saw. Slow and agonizing. He looks a little serial also.
Terrifying.
I hope he's not Christian....
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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John M, I agree with a ban on automatic firearms. they are already illegal and you need paperwork for that! How do you define an assault rifle? Just because it looks scary? I am curious.
I see your logic on reducing gun numbers, but I don't ever think of the gun in my truck (pretty sure it is there). Like grabbing the chainsaw, when I need it there it is. I need it often. A gun is like a shovel to me, always somewhere in the truck. Just a tool for us farmers. (dying horse, cow etc... or feral hogs).
Q-ball
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Looks good there Chief, but you know that we can't get that kinda sh#t in Cali if yer a civy like me LOL
but seriously I was hoping to put a few holes in errant pigs not eviscerate fauna with that kinda firepower!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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The criminologist James Alan Fox at Northeastern University estimates that there have been an average of 100 victims killed each year in mass shootings over the past three decades. That’s less than 1 percent of gun homicide victims.
Apparently mr Fox stopped looking and his stat is incomplete. In addition to the people killed, there are the people injured in mass shootings, defined as incidents with 4 or more victims.
This year is 275 days old and there have been 308 separate mass shooting incidents. At least 309 after today. It's hard to keep up. Even if the minimum number was met in all events, that's 1236 victims of mass shootings.
http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
We aren't talking isolated freak events.
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John M
climber
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The criminologist James Alan Fox at Northeastern University estimates that there have been an average of 100 victims killed each year in mass shootings over the past three decades. That’s less than 1 percent of gun homicide victims.
Perhaps we should tell the parents of those people in Oregon that their kids are statistically insignificant and thus we don't want to try to put a dent in those kinds of killings.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Thank you.Somewhat more than mr Fox's average stat of 100 a year.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Damn...that Mossberg 590 dude is impressive.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Yeah. I'm glad I'm not a pop bottle.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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On a per capita basis the likelihood of being murdered by firearms in the US is 50 times higher than in Great Britain and France and 297 times higher than in Japan.....ever hear of those places?
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Mark Allen
Trad climber
Longo, CA
|
|
My heart goes out to the families and friends (as well as the shooter's)
of those who were killed, wounded, and are grieving. What stones for those who alledgely stood up and took the bullet for their faith, and to think they did it for a "fairy tale."
Phillipians 1:29
Roman 8:36
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David Lewis
Trad climber
NYC
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Thankfully the stats that Donini uses are not correct. The chances of being murdered in the USA are in line with the UK. Unfortunately suicide has been thrown into those stats in this country and our suicide is on target with other highly developed nations except we use guns and the other nations use a different means. The CDC did a study trying to support Obama's agenda but could not. The study demonstrates both good and bad but is no where near the doom and gloom that anti-gunners portray nor is it as benevolent as the pro-gun group would like.
Yes we may have a violent culture in this country but the cause has yet to be identified. In my opinion economic,stress and values on how we define success play a much larger role trhan we care to admit.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I was in Roseburg this summer. It seemed like a peaceful little logging town. Like Twin Peaks.
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Bad Climber
climber
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|
I think the posted stats re. decreasing homicides speaks for itself. What we should/can do about situations like Oregon et al. is another question. There is one thing we can do that virtually all experts in this kind of mayhem agree on: Stop reporting on the fu*ktards who do these terrible deeds. Don't report the names. Don't list their grievances. Don't publish their manifestos. Don't show their pictures. Ever. When moronic reporters question the "motives" about the shooters, what the hell are they talking about? It's ALWAYS the same: Angry f-ing psychos. That's it. Always. Once we publish the profiles and such, we do, for a very small but deadly subset of the culture "glorify" such acts. We make it thinkable, possible, a way for these losers to make a mark.
It's called the "Werther Effect" after Goethe's Sorrows of Young Werther, a novel about a pathetic young loser who kills himself 'cause he can't get the tail he was going after. Across Europe, there were a number of similar REAL suicides inspired by this novel. Go figure. With our crazy gun culture married with hyper media coverage, these school shootings are the modern day death child of this phenomenon.
Don't give these a-holes a platform! And let trained cops/security carry heat on campus.
BAd
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
Damn...that Mossberg 590 dude is impressive.
Perhaps, and I say this, Mossberg is practically a member of my family, but you never want the enemy to be that close.
There was a time, loons were carried away by "guys with white coats", but no more. Now they get guns. Mass shooting - dead loon - problem solved - and just in time for football.
Gun-wise, the horse has left the barn. Have to examine our options as far as keeping guns and loons apart.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Hey, DMT: I guess I was thinking using something generic--gunman--and that's it.
Bad
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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{quote]Looks good there Chief, but you know that we can't get that kinda sh#t in Cali if yer a civy like me LOL[/quote]
Oh yes you can GMAN!!!!
I have a MB 20"er with one of these on it and am very accurate at 200 yards with a 1oz 1610-75fps slug. (Federal's are pretty clean actually)
BTW, it makes for the best home defense weapon when loaded with this stuff...
And as to the answer to all this madness. Well, had at least five students at the time been intensively trained, well proficient at weapons handling/firing and been "packing" as Rick S suggested, as the dude below is, the fatalities yesterday and at all the other "School Shootings" would have been minimized and possibly completely avoided. That piece of shet would have been terminated in seconds with no questions asked.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The above is why there are NO school shootings in Israel nor Russia.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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College Students packing weapons with their books? Is this where higher education is today?
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philo
climber
|
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From my post on page 1
I can't wait for the usual characters post up to inform us how little we know when we misuse lingo like "assault" rifle and the like. And how if only they'd been the good guy with the gun. Then they can tell us exactly what ammo, and gun would have been more effective. Yada yada yada yea!
And look the Ammosexuals are, as predicted, out in full glory.
321 school shootings since the Columbine atrocity.
Hey Hey Hey NRA how many kids did you kill today?
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jonnyrig
climber
|
|
not in NV. we just shot down a bill that would have allowed concealed carry on campus. other states allow it. haven't seen much come of it yet, other than some idiot shot himself by accident.
Sick of the shootings. Sick of the visceral reactions. Sick of people who ignore the facts. Tired of reading the same old played-out arguments for and against.
The demographic is changing. Time for us to adapt, and find a way to improve the situation. Something that's going to piss everyone off ought to be about right. And it won't be a singular approach. There is no magic bullet.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Beats having "Criminal/Zombi fk" College student that utilizes illegally acquired weapons from blowing your ass away due to the fact that you are unarmed and totally unprepared.
Remember what the OP stated....
Sadly this is the new norm.
So, start preparing and defending from it. NOW!
REALITY CHECK!! Guns are NOT going away.
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Mark Allen
Trad climber
Longo, CA
|
|
Respectfully Bob, read through the book of John in the fairytale book. The writer who knew, lived with, and saw die and resurrected, the Jesus of the fairytale, also gave up his life for his faith. I see a long history here. Just saying... I appreciate your concern for the mass shootings that are continuing to occur in our country. My response was brought forth by your response to Cragman as far as coming out of the dark ages. I respect your history of being exposed to the Jesus of the Scriptures, I hope that one day you will truly see that he is the Light of the world!
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10b4me
Social climber
|
|
I think the posted stats re. decreasing homicides speaks for itself. What we should/can do about situations like Oregon et al. is another question. There is one thing we can do that virtually all experts in this kind of mayhem agree on: Stop reporting on the fu*ktards who do these terrible deeds. Don't report the names. Don't list their grievances. Don't publish their manifestos. Don't show their pictures. Ever. When moronic reporters question the "motives" about the shooters, what the hell are they talking about? It's ALWAYS the same: Angry f-ing psychos. That's it. Always. Once we publish the profiles and such, we do, for a very small but deadly subset of the culture "glorify" such acts. We make it thinkable, possible, a way for these losers to make a mark.
It's called the "Werther Effect" after Goethe's Sorrows of Young Werther, a novel about a pathetic young loser who kills himself 'cause he can't get the tail he was going after. Across Europe, there were a number of similar REAL suicides inspired by this novel. Go figure. With our crazy gun culture married with hyper media coverage, these school shootings are the modern day death child of this phenomenon.
Don't give these a-holes a platform! And let trained cops/security carry heat on campus.
BAd Here
everyone either is, or wants the to be a narcissist. People are so insecure they have to take a selfie, and post it all over the Internet. wtf!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
Do you even read what you post Frats??
Moscow teen kills two in RARE Russian school shooting
It is almost unheard-of for a student to attack a school in Russia.
Compared to the US, HOW many "school shootings" have there been in, Russia, Frats?
BABda posts an article that using two cases of failure. Hmmmmm.
Pretty amazing how an packing Korean vet pulls out his semi auto 9mm and starts effectively controlling what assuredly would have been a really bad scene...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
And there's plenty more where that one came from, BOBda!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
Mark wrote: Respectfully Bob, read through the book of John in the fairytale book. The writer who knew, lived with, and saw die and resurrected, the Jesus of the fairytale, also gave up his life for his faith. I see a long history here. Just saying...
I have, went to a Catholic grade school, taught by Jesuits in high school and then Christian Brothers in college.
Still doesn't change the fact that we are living in the most peaceful times in human history and the fact that America has a very high rate of mass shootings compared to other first world countries.
Mark, thanks for your civil tone.
Yes Russia is a role model we should follow.
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/19/224043848/the-u-s-has-more-guns-but-russia-has-more-murders
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
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Compared to the US, HOW many "school shootings" have there been in, Russia, BOBda?
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 07:45am PT
Still doesn't change the fact that we are living in the most peaceful times in human history
What planet are you living on, D'Antonio???? That post alone pretty much speaks tons about how totally naive you and many others here really are.
How about we plant your ass in SW Asia, Central Africa, Central Mexico.... and so on.
You truly are a complete LOON!
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philo
climber
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^^^ the same planet the rest of us sane, open minded and sentient beings exists upon.
Which is probably why you can't see it from your house on Shetlandia.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Arming college kids is the answer?
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philo
climber
|
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The answer for what?
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Bad Climber
climber
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|
Good point, Bob. Modern media focuses on the worst, and we generalize. Fewer murders, less mayhem across the board, but we feel things are getting worse. The masses are rarely swayed by the facts, however.
My heart goes out to the families and others in Oregon. I work at a community college, and this sort of thing does worry me. Of course, our security personnel are not allowed to carry guns. We have gun-free campus! Yeah! That makes us safe! Morons in admin must believe that will keep psycho malcontents from bringing guns onto campus where they will be assured plenty of soft targets and no push back. The police: Minutes away when seconds count.
BAd
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Deaths in US- 2004-2013
Terrorism, 36
Firearms, 316,545
Even 9/11 pales in comparison.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey Survival, you forgot vehicle accidents...^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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philo
climber
|
|
Since 2004 313 Americans have died in acts of terrorism here and abroad while 316,545 Americans have died from gun violence here in the U.S.
There is a War going on and it has nothing to do with Isis.
It's a homegrown war right here in the U.S. Of A.
"we have met the enemy and he is us". - Pogo
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
The Chief: One thing I used to give you credit for is that you believed NO means NO, as in NO!
Then I catch you in a mistake:
Das Chief has once again morphed into Da Chuf, per his last significant statement.
The above is why there are NO school shootings in Israel nor Russia.
Feb 3, 2014.
Moscow teen kills two in rare Russian school shooting
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/03/us-russia-shooting-school-idUSBREA120C920140203
Chuf on mighty Spewmeister.
And your indignant response is that NO means rarely, and that I should read what I post.
Do you ever admit to being wrong, or does your pit-bull mentality not allow that?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
"Since 2004 313 Americans have died in acts of terrorism here and abroad while 316,545 Americans have died from gun violence here in the U.S.'
Look a how much we have spend on fighting terrorist compared to addressing mental health and the gun culture in America.
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philo
climber
|
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Fritz, no he doesn't. Like I said he is SuperTopo's Donald Trump.
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 08:26am PT
"Since 2004 313 Americans have died in acts of terrorism here and abroad while 316,545 Americans have died from gun violence here in the U.S.'
But tell me again about your Benghazi outrage.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Been to Mexico four times in the last year, driven in by myself to Chihuahua and Sonora.
Still here and nothing but good times.
Fear, fear and fear.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
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Fritz wrote: Do you ever admit to being wrong, or does your pit-bull mentality not allow that?
No he attacks and then deletes. Sick little puppy but it is fun to watch him go ballistic.
Chief...driving in again to Mexico nest month and then flying to Honduras after the first of year...you wanna go? Just leave the guns at home.
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philo
climber
|
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Where's Rong when you need weapons and ammo advice?
What stops a good guy with a gun from becoming a bad guy with a gun?
And what gun and ammo do I need to stock up on to protect myself from angry gun crazed whack jobs like Lil Chuffles?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Do you ever admit to being wrong,
About what... how truly ignorant about reality you people are?
Nope.
driving in again to Mexico nest month...
If the world is so peaceful Bob, why don't you and your family fly on over to Damascus and spend a couple of peaceful weeks visiting the ruins with Jim Donini?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
"Where's Rong when you need weapons and ammo advice?"
Ummm.....seems like he's right here with us right now...
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philo
climber
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^^^ So you admit that you are wrong and that you'll never admit it.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
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Very hard for the Chief to separate issues.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
It is really hard for you to grasp the big picture
Big picture?
Like the US homicide rate steadily dropping for the last 20 years, currently at the lowest rate in over 50 years?
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Barbarian
climber
|
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How come the "Greatest Nation on Earth" isn't leading the way?
Please tell me what nation that is.
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philo
climber
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^^^ And yet still unacceptably high.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Over 167 of those 264 "Mass Shootings" were in.... SO Chicago done with totally ILLEGAL weapons.
Not a peep from the POTUS about that. Nope.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
9956 US citizens killed in mass shootings in 2015?
Bullshit!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
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Edwart wrote: Big picture?
Like the US homicide rate steadily dropping for the last 20 years, currently at the lowest rate in over 50 years?
I posted a link about that and Chief disagrees...you should point your comment at him, not me.
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John M
climber
|
|
Chief, there is a difference between saying things are "more peaceful" versus saying things are Peaceful. Bob didn't saying things are peaceful. He said that they are More peaceful, at least according to crime statistics. Saying things are more peaceful doesn't mean that there are no problems anywhere in the world. It also doesn't mean that some places aren't worse. His statement was about the world as a whole.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
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Calm down Ed, read it slowly...Cost of mass shooting and then homicides by guns and then comparing time & money spend by congress investigating.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 08:45am PT
Like the US homicide rate steadily dropping for the last 20 years, currently at the lowest rate in over 50 years?
If things are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo peaceful BOBda, with all the mass amounts of guns in the US, the most in history, then why did you even start this thread and state this...
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 1, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
Sadly this is the new norm.
Make up your mind... which isit.
EDIT:
Chief, there is a difference between saying things are "more peaceful" versus saying things are Peaceful. Bob didn't saying things are peaceful. He said that they are More peaceful, at least according to crime statistics.
So then this entire thread and issue is a moot one. Seeing all more law abiding Americans own guns today than they ever had.
Thank you for proving the point, boys.
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WBraun
climber
|
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Look a how much we have spend on fighting terrorist
Stoopid Americans created all the terrorists and then fight their own self created enemies spending trillions.
It's a huge lucrative buisness the stoopid illusionary war machine created by the stoopid elite.
You stoopid Americans never learn nor have you the brains to even see it and what to speak of stopping it.
You're too busy blathering endlessly.
You stoopid Americans have been 0wned forever due to your own stoopid self created karma.
Stooopid stooopid Americans masquerading as intelligent ......
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
Calm down Ed, read it slowly...Cost of mass shooting and then homicides by guns
You're making stuff up.
The heading is Mass Shooting in the US
No mention of homicide by guns.
Oh yeah... what idiot thinks there's no cost associated with those mass killings?
Or that mass killings aren't being investigated?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
You just can't focus can you Chief...take a deep breath, The new norm is mass killing like these. Do you agree or not??
Not about cars, drinking or other things that roll around in that head of your...just about mass killing and guns that they use to do these acts.
Sorry Ed, you seem to be on the same wavelength as Chief.
"Oh yeah... what idiot thinks there's no cost associated with those mass killings?"
How much has congress spend to address this issue?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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FALSE EQUIVALENCIES ABOUND
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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How much has congress spend to address this issue?
But things are "MORE PEACEFUL than they have been in history" BOBda.
AND!
Why hasn't the POTUS come on National TV and displayed the same anger he did yesterday after this occurs every Weekend in his home town of SO Chicago?
EDIT:
Why hasn't the POTUS "Addressed this issue"
[Click to View YouTube Video]
WHY? Because to do so would show that his gun control policies are totally politically skewed. That is why. More people have been "gunned down" due to "drug related shootings" in his hometown and where he worked as a Community Activist in So Chicago the past three-five years than all the "School/Campus" shootings combined.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
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How much has congress spend to address this issue?
Again, you're making stuff to excuse the misrepresentations in your propaganda.
Do you ever admit to being wrong, or does your pit-bull mentality not allow that?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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FALSE EQUIVALENCIES ABOUND
Yep, like including suicides when throwing around numbers and proclaiming "gun violence."
Are suicides by hanging a symptom of "rope violence"?
(US suicide rate is pretty similar to most Euro countries--but here lots of people use guns, for obvious reasons)
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Over 167 of those 264 "Mass Shootings" were in.... SO Chicago done with totally ILLEGAL weapons.
Not a peep from the POTUS about that. Nope.
Don't you get tired of being wrong about everything?
CHICAGO — President Barack Obama's support for gun control has its roots in a hometown plagued by deadly shootings – a city, he said Friday, where as many children die from guns every four months as were slaughtered at Sandy Hook school in Connecticut.
Obama told a Chicago audience that high-profile mass shootings are one part of a national tragedy created not just by guns but by communities where there is too little hope. As a result, he said, "too many of our children are being taking away from us."
It was an emotional return to a city whose recent shooting victims have included Hadiya Pendleton, a 15-year-old drum majorette gunned down a mile from Obama's Chicago home just days after she performed at the president's inauguration in Washington. Standing before Hyde Park Academy students in their navy uniform shirts, the president said 65 children were killed by gun violence last year in Chicago. "That's the equivalent of a Newtown every four months," Obama said. Twenty children were among the dead in the Newtown massacre.
"This is not just a gun issue," Obama said. "It's also an issue of the kinds of communities that we're building, and for that we all share responsibility as citizens to fix it. We all share a responsibility to move this country closer to our founding vision, that no matter who you were or where you come from, here in America, you can decide your own destiny."
Obama was a reliable vote in favor of gun control as a state senator in the late 1990s, with one important exception that contributed to his only electoral loss. While running for the Democratic primary for a House seat in 1999, Obama missed a vote on a gun control measure that narrowly failed, an episode that he later said cost him any chance to win.
Gun control was not on Obama's agenda in his first term as president. But now, at the start of his second term, Obama is seizing an opportunity to act that emerged from national outrage over the Newtown shooting in December. He is pushing measures including background checks for all gun purchases and a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines, even as both sides in the debate doubt he'll be able to achieve the full package.
"These proposals deserve a vote in Congress," Obama said in his Hyde Park Academy visit. It's rhetoric he also used in the State of the Union address Tuesday.
Earlier Friday at the White House, Obama honored the six educators killed in the Connecticut shooting by presenting the Presidential Citizens Medal to their families. "They gave their lives to protect the precious children in their care," Obama said.
In Chicago, Obama mourned the death of Pendleton, whose funeral Michelle Obama had attended. "Unfortunately, what happened to Hadiya's not unique," the president said. "It's not unique to Chicago, it's not unique to this country. Too many of our children are being taken away from us."
Critics of Obama's effort note that Chicago's spike in homicides offers evidence gun restrictions don't work. The city prohibited handguns until a 2010 Supreme Court ruling threw out the ban. Chicago then adopted a strict gun ordinance that requires gun owners to be fingerprinted, undergo a background check, pass a training class and pay fees that can be higher than the price of the weapons. Still, the city's homicide rate rose to more than 500 last year.
Gun control proponents say Chicago illustrates the need for tougher restrictions nationally because guns are coming from outside the city. Statistics show that more than half of the guns seized by Chicago police in the last 12 years came from other states. A University of Chicago study found that more than 1,300 guns confiscated by police since 2008 were purchased at a single store just outside city limits. More than 270 were used in crimes.
Violence has long been a problem in Chicago, a city the president represented for eight years in the state Senate while building a record of voting for gun control. He invoked the ire of gun rights advocates when he voted against a measure that would have exempted prosecution of people who fire guns to fend off home invaders, inspired by a man who shot an intruder who repeatedly broke into his home.
"It became very obvious he was not going to be one of our guys," said Richard Pearson, president of the Illinois State Rifle Association. He said it wasn't that surprising, given the city that Obama represented. "You're not allowed to be a politician from Chicago and support gun rights," Pearson said with a laugh.
In 1999, Obama made his first run for national office by entering the Democratic primary race for Congress against incumbent Rep. Bobby Rush. In October 1999, Rush's son was fatally shot by drug dealers outside his home, and Obama suspended his campaign for a month.
That December, Obama announced he would push federal gun legislation that goes far beyond than what he is proposing now. It would have limited gun purchases to one a month, banned the sale of firearms other than antiques at gun shows, limited the sale of guns to adults over 21 who took a training course and increased gun licensing fees. He also would have increased the penalties on gun runners and brought a felony charge against owners who didn't lock up firearms that were later stolen and used in a crime.
He announced the antigun plan near the home of an 84-year-old woman killed when several young men invaded her home mistakenly believing she won the lottery.
But Obama went to his native Hawaii for the Christmas holiday to see his grandmother and spend time with his wife and then 18-month-old daughter, Malia. He wrote in his autobiography "The Audacity of Hope" about how the Legislature was called back into special session while he was gone, but Malia was sick and unable to fly home.
"I got off the redeye at O'Hare Airport, a wailing baby in tow, Michelle not speaking to me, and was greeted by a front page story in the Chicago Tribune indicating that the gun bill had fallen a few votes short, and that state senator and congressional candidate Obama `had decided to remain on vacation' in Hawaii," Obama wrote. "My campaign manager called, mentioning the potential ad the congressman might be running soon – palm trees, a man in a beach chair and straw hat sipping a mai tai, a slack key guitar being strummed softly in the background, the voice-over explaining, `While Chicago suffered the highest murder rate in its history, Barack Obama...'
"I stopped him there, having gotten the idea," Obama continued. "And so, less than halfway into the campaign, I knew in my bones that I was going to lose."
It would be his only loss. Obama went on to win the U.S. Senate race in 2004 and then the presidency just four years later. He brought Rush along on Air Force One on Friday when he flew home.
Oh, wait! He didn't actually "peep" did he? So it doesn't count.
Skip to 3:00 if you'd like.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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DISTRACT
DIVERT
DISTRACT
DIVERT
(Repeat)
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Gary Schenk..
Please do post the DATE of your REF!
Ah, NEVER MIND>>>
Feb 15, 2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/15/obama-chicago-gun-violenc_n_2697781.html
Got it.
Over two and half years ago.
In the meantime, over 2800 innocent people have been SHOT in So Chicago since that last "Peep" from the POTUS due to drug/gang related "gun violence" in SO CHICAGO.
Gary Schenk, don't you get tired of being, stooooooooooooooooooooopid and a complete BUTTSNORKLING buffoon?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Chief,
Please explain the level of agitation you exhibit when discussing guns.
Do you feel a kinship with other gun owners?
Is it possible that guns and the politics surrounding them is simply a cultural identifier to gain and retain membership status in the current conservative movement?
Would you feel less safe if you did not own guns?
Would an armed student have changed the outcome of yesterday's event in a positive way?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Edward...http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/30/viral-image/viral-flawed-post-compares-honduras-switzerland-gu/
Just a little from Eddy post.
"Honduras indisputably has the highest homicide rate in the world, with estimates ranging from a rate of 90.4 intentional homicides per 100,000 people in 2012, according to the United Nations, to 103.9 per 100,000 population, according to the World Health Organization. This was significantly higher than the rates of neighboring El Salvador (41.2), which has reduced its homicide rate following a truce among gangs, the UN said in its 2013 Global Study on Homicide.
The vast majority, more than 80 percent, of those homicides are linked to a firearm. Lethal shootings most often occur in urban centers and areas along the Atlantic coast and border regions, which suggests the violence is linked to drug trafficking patterns and gangs, according to a report on Honduras by the Small Arms Survey, a Swiss-based research project.
Switzerland’s homicide rate is among the lowest in the world, but the meme goes too far in saying it’s the very lowest. By the UN and WHO measures, the most recent Swiss intentional homicide rate is 0.6 deaths per population.
Several countries — including Japan and Singapore, which have very strict gun laws, as well as Iceland and Luxembourg — posted lower rates than Switzerland in either one or both of the UN and WHO data sets.
Laws
The post is wrong about the gun laws in each country.
Honduras doesn’t "ban" citizens from owning guns."
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philo
climber
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Great post Gary.
Apogee you left out Deny.
Distract
Divert
Deny
Repeat ad nausea.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Haha.
The difference in homocide rates would of course have nothing to do with the fact that Honduras is a main conduit in the Central American cocaine trade and Switzerland is a main conduit for corporate banking and sports associations and secret billionaire tax shelters, or that the Per capita income of Switzerland is $60,000. And the per capita income of Honduras is $1,643.
It probably also isn't related to the fact that the gross domestic product per capita in Switzerland is fourth in the World at $87,000 and Honduras' is near the bottom at 2,00o per person.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Hey Chief...that's a great Jon Stewart clip you posted.
By any chance....did you watch it starting around 6:00?
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dirtbag
climber
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I rarely participate in gun threads. It's impossible to discuss very modest reforms without gun nuts screaming about tyranny or refusing to acknowledge even a few basic facts, or hysterically hyperventilating that advocates want to take away all their guns. In this political climate, change is a lost cause. And if the day ever passes when we have modest reform, I have to think that the political and social climates are so poisoned that such change would be met with violent resistance, because the nutters really do believe the tyranny talk. They would have needlessly created a self-fulfilling prophesy.
So, here we are. We will have shootings and more shootings, and we will have the same discussions over and over, the NRA will continue to shut down conversations by claiming the tragedy is being exploited for political purposes (funny how they don't seem to want to have a discussion at other times, either), and nothing will change. As the president said, we are numb, and sick and tired, and stuck in a deadly paradigm.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Just in BOBDa.
Swiss law REQUIRES that their citizens be issued a weapon and proficient in the use of those weapons.
As the president said, we are numb, and sick and tired, and stuck in an deadly paradigm.
If true, than why doesn't he, the POTUS, start to clean this shet up in his Hometown? Where this shet is getting worse by the day?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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That's a great post, dirt.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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NRA.... tooo funnee!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Whoever advocated not publicizing the wackos - you've been heard!
Sheriff withholds Oregon gunman's name, refuses to immortalize him
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/02/us-usa-shooting-oregon-idUSKCN0RV5EP20151002
Of course the LA Times had a front page article today in which they went to his old apartment
building and talked to the neighbors. Get this - they were SHOCKED! They did say that he
seemed a little 'off'.
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John M
climber
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great post dirtbag…
once again
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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So, Chief (or any of the other rabid gun nutz):
Do you think that anything could or should be done to react to the trend of mass shootings in America? Or do you think it's not a problem at all...not any kind of trend...and doesn't require any kind of reaction at all?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Do you think that anything could or should be done to react to the trend of mass shootings in America?
So Apogee, with more ILLEGAL weapons being utilized by NON LAW ABIDING individuals, do you seriously believe that limiting/restricting access to and even taking all the weapons away from the LAW ABIDING citizens is going to make a difference?
Seriously?
and doesn't require any kind of reaction at all?
The reaction that the POTUS gave yesterday and total lack of any reaction the past six months to the escalation of "shootings/killings" in his Hometown, truly is indicative of his political/ideological stance on all this.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I asked you a question, Chief. Can you just answer it? Even a simple yes or no?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"If true, than why doesn't he, the POTUS, start to clean this shet up in his Hometown? Where this shet is getting worse by the day?"
My god you are not the sharpest pencil.
Do you want him to call in the national guard??
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jonnyrig
climber
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Really want to fix gun violence? Start with these:
Bullying
Depression
Suicide
Healthcare
Gangs
Education
Drugs
Parenting
Poverty
Religious Extremism
Racism
...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Do you want him to call in the national guard??
Well, it wouldn't be the first time, would it?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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asked you a question, Chief. Can you just answer it? Even a simple yes or no?
NO!
Because this issue is completely skewed by both sides.
EDIT:
Do you think that anything could or should be done to react to the trend of mass shootings in America?
Yes... Have the POTUS start in his hometown and clean up the shetfest illegal gun shooting horror show their and in Baltimore etc.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Then where do you think the truth lies in this issue?
Are gun massacres a trending problem in America or not? Should anything be done about them?
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philo
climber
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Do you think that anything could or should be done to react to the trend of mass shootings in America?
Yes... Have the POTUS start in his hometown and clean up the shetfest illegal gun shooting horror show their and in Baltimore etc.
Yea I'm sure there is nothing else on his plate to have to deal with.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Open minds continue to work on it...
Arm and train every citizen as they do in Switzerland.... end of story.
Yea I'm sure there is nothing else on his plate to have to deal with.
Apparently not if he can come out yesterday but never on a Monday morning after the every weekend horror shetfest in his hometown.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Have the POTUS start in his hometown and clean up the shetfest illegal gun shooting horror show their and in Baltimore etc."
Well, that wouldn't exactly address the national trend, but if he started there, what do you think he should do?
Edit: Oh...you think we should train and arm every citizen in the Country. Like Switzerland.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Why not Apogee?
Why not....
EDUCATION and TRAINING.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What, other than door-to-door searches by the Army and Marines, is going to get all the guns?
(as if that would)
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Maybe if Mr. Trump becomes pres he will build a wall around Chicago (ala West Bank)
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philo
climber
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Lol Ydpl82
Reilly why does it always have to be presented as all the guns?
Who other than the gun crazies actually argues for all the guns?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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BOBda... once again you fail to read what you post.
Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Sounds to me pretty much identical to our ..
2nd Amendment!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"BOBda... once again you fail to read what you post.
Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!"
I read it and you are cherry picking.
But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.
"
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philo
climber
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Not to mention every one had their gold there.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Apparently not if he can come out yesterday but never on a Monday morning after the every weekend horror shetfest in his hometown.
For the same reason Presidents don't go on National TV to mourn the loss of every Soldier.
More of whom have committed sucide by gun here Stateside than died in battle if Iraq and Afganistan.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I read it and you are cherry picking.
Cherry Picking?
NOT.
That is the PRIMARY reason SWISS own guns. Just as our Forefathers directed us as citizens to the exact same via the 2nd Amendment.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Did you read this part, too?:
"“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings."
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Chris Gibson
Trad climber
Frisco, Texas
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The rise of social media, the rise of the 24 hr news cycle combined with the fact that we as a society have gone from living and communicating with each other on a personal scale to living and communicating on a global scale leaves some people feeling as though they do not have a voice and allows them to stew in their own personal dysfunction with no outlet and the feeling of not being heard even though they are in a crowded room.
The United States has always had guns, always had the mentally ill and seldom did the two ever meet in this way.
Want to look at other "advanced" countries that restrict gun ownership and see what they have in common, at some point in their past their government practiced Totalitarianism with a government that brutalized its citizens, forced its citizens against their will and ruled over its citizens. Government serves the people not the other way around.
Should there be some common sense gun laws? Maybe, should there just be free rain on gun ownership for everyone? Maybe not, this issue is way more complex than just more gone laws. Just my perspective.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime
Another valid reason for the POTUS to start in his hometown where the above is pretty much the current worst in our nation per the events of the past six or so months there. As well as Baltimore, etc etc.
But the economy is flourshing. And this is "the most peaceful times in history!"
Should there be some common sense gun laws?
There are. Over 470 Federally and untold amounts State and locally.
How many more do we need on the books that WILL NOT BE enforced?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I repeat:
What, other than door-to-door searches by the Army and Marines, is going to get all the guns?
(as if that would)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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As if that's the solution, Reilly.
I don't think the majority of Americans think that all guns should be taken and destroyed. However, it seems that any pro-gun advocate believes that this is the only solution that is being advocated by those who would like to see common sense gun laws.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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What stops a "good guy" with a gun from becoming a "bad guy" with a gun?
Lol... Are you scared of everything?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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For all those that think more guns would make us safer here's a question:
If you go to a stadium for a sports event, concert, etc. would you rather have no guns, and metal detectors as things are now? Or the "freedom" for anyone to bring a gun if they want?
As Obama said: "It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun."
That's really the crux of the issue. Me, my friends, and relatives are safe, legal gun owners. None of us belong to the NRA because the NRA is unreasonable in preventing laws that would help with no significant infringement on our rights.
We should have universal background checks, with privacy safeguards. We should have strict national laws for selling/giving a gun to someone without a background check or with a failed background check. Like 6 months in jail minimum, or 2-20 years in jail if the gun was used in a crime. Of course it won't eliminate these types of shootings but it could cut the number of people killed in half. The harder it is for someone who shouldn't have them to get guns and the harder it is to get more lethal guns the less guns will be available to those who shouldn't have them. And it would reduce handgun violence as well.
But of course gun control is just one part of the solution. We need better mental health care. A less violent culture would help. And people educated to see the warning signs and willing to take action.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Well, Ap, a LOT seem to be talking like that is the end game. Disabuse me of that perception.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Reilly, I'm not seeing a very direct answer to this question from Chief...I'd be curious about your view:
Do you think that anything could or should be done to react to the trend of mass shootings in America? Or do you think it's not a problem at all...not any kind of trend...and doesn't require any kind of reaction at all?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Apogeee:
the only solution that is being advocated by those who would like to see common sense gun laws.
There are. Over 470 Federally and untold amounts State and locally.
How many more do we need on the books that WILL NOT BE enforced?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Reilly, I don't really see that, and national polls don't support it, either. The vast majority of Americans want to see the right to own guns preserved, and would also like to see some reasonable laws towards ownership of certain guns. The piece you posted yesterday cites this (and I fall in line there) pretty clearly, as a recent example.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Massacres? Mass shootings?
At this point they are a statistical anomaly, the numbers of which do not bear out a statistically significant increase. That said, the facts of each individual event are horrifying, and present too much mayhem to be outright ignored.
What to DO about it? That's a different matter. Consider that there are probably well over 300 million firearms (of all types and calibers) in the U.S. at any given point of time, the question of availability is a moot point at this stage of the game. Anyone who can't find one legally can, with little effort, find one illegally, as proven on a daily basis by those shootings carried out by known gang members, convicted felons, persons convicted of domestic violence, illegal aliens, the mentally ill, and any other class of prohibited person. With firearms that are often categorically banned in the areas where the crime is committed.
There is no immediate fix. There really is no ultimate fix that's going to effectively eliminate the availability of firearms to those who want them. That's not saying there aren't things to be done... it's saying that what we CAN do is likely to be only partially effective at best, and hated by much of the general public who own firearms.
I've stated numerous times in these threads that the response and the efforts to curb violence are multi-pronged, requiring considerable thought and emphasis on not seeking a quick-fix solution, such as bans. If anything, the evidence points to the unreliability of such schemes to succeed.
On the other hand, without putting forth the effort to solve the other social injustices and ills that plague our modern society, the only real avenue we have is the temporary, idiotic, band-aid reaction like the Clinton assault weapons ban. Might as well cover up that dog bite without irrigating the wound or checking for rabies.
Fact is, without considerably stepping up police action and enforcement (which I'm sure you all favor, riiight?!) there'd be no possible hope of effectively curbing the availability of high-powered firearms in this country. It would require national registry, mandatory compliance, and dedicated enforcement on a scale not seen since prohibition. Worked great in Canada, eh? Far less guns there, right from the start, so I'll leave it to your personal logical analysis to predict the efficacy.
All proposed solutions should be inherently more than a simple knee-jerk reaction that unduly punishes and demonizes the vast majority of responsible firearms owners. But they're not.
All those issues listed in my previous post contribute, in a general way, to a great variety of societal failings in this country. Homelessness, joblessness, failing health, wellfare, apathy, and our standing in the global economic market would all stand to benefit from a little more concentrated effort in dealing with issues like those. Not to mention helping cure the problem of violent crime in this country.
Those of you who think the NRA et al are the only ones aruing the case for ALL guns in the U.S. aren't paying much attention to the other side of the coin. There are a great number of individuals in this country who do and would support an outright confiscation of every gun in America, if not the planet, and some would happily sacrifice our individual rights and liberties to get it done. A few have openly stated as much on this very forum. If we are to remain free, we need to find balance, even in these times of tragedy.
Then again, a group of men armed with box cutters brought us the intrinsically fair and just TSA.
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Chris Gibson
Trad climber
Frisco, Texas
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We have drug laws in this country with stiff penalties yet we are the largest consumer of drugs. I do not believe the problem is with the availability or the restriction of availability, there is some fundamental shift happening in society as a whole, some path that we as a society as a whole are going down. Cant really explain it since I am not that smart, but restriction or restriction alone will probably not fix it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I'm in the social reform camp :
1. Mandatory sterilization if you don't graduate from high school with a C average.
2. Stop IRS child deductions.
3. Stop all free-trade agreements and bring back manufacturing.
4. Prevent lawyers from defending gangsters.
5. Legalize drugs but if you or anyone in yer family presents at the ER for an OD you pay.
6. Do whatever they're doing in VT, New Hampshire, and Maine - they got a LOT of guns
but they don't seem to be using them on each other, kinda like Switzerland.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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GOOD Post JRIG! AND... ^^^^^ Reilly!
As Obama said: "It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun."
Again, the POTUS needs to go back to his "Hood" to ask that.... See the video below.
HERE's REALITY for FRITZ, BOBda, and the rest of you totally naive living in a Fairy Tail World Bubble, LOONS!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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"the most peaceful times in history!"
That would be hard to prove right or wrong.
Mexico we can agree is likely more violent than years ago, however Peru is certainly not as violent as in the early 90s.
Chile same- more peaceful now than in the 70s- my gf can attest to that.
etc etc examples....
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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I've read this whole thread, and I have a single question to ask of the more-gun-control crowd: WHAT proposed legislation would have kept this latest incident from happening?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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As I understand the circumstances of this latest incident, it's doubtful that any kind of specific gun control measure would have stopped it- the solution is likely more related to a deeper set of social/cultural fabric changes that aren't likely to happen in this highly individualistic country.
This was just the latest incident, of which there will be more...some of which might very well be reduced with reasonable gun legislation & restrictions. The pro-gun positions seem to shrug off this (and most every other incident) as some kind of 'acceptable loss' that can't be avoided in any manner.
Or maybe I need to be disabused of this perception...
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10b4me
Social climber
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Swiss law REQUIRES that their citizens be issued a weapon and proficient in the use of those weapons.
Chief,
#1)there lies the conundrum. Americans don't want to spend the time to learn safety, or proficiency.
#2)you keep mentioning the shootings in Chicago. those are the result of gang warfare. While some innocent people are being shot, the majority are gang members. Not too many gang members that I've heard of are innocent.....of anything.
The impetus for this thread was the shooting of innocent people being shot.
You are confusing oranges with grapes.
People say that if guns are banned criminals will still get them. What about ammo? Isn't it a lot easier to ban the sale, and manufacture of ammo?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Great post Steve.
"The impetus for this thread was the shooting of innocent people being shot.
You are confusing oranges with grapes."
But is Obama fault what is happening in Chicago.
Again I started the thread about mass shooting becoming the norm in this country...296 so far this year.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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That's a cop out Madbolter. The USA has the most asinine, out of control gun culture in the f
First World. We are 300 times more likely to be murdered by firearms than people in Japan....50 times more likely than the citizens of France, Germany or Great Britain.
Sure, the cats out of the bag and any legislation will take a long time to show any positive effect, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't start down to a more enlightened view of firearms and their role in a civilized society.
I've been around a lot of gun nuts who thought they were tough, individualistic, modern day versions of the rowdies who "tamed" the west. You know what....most of them have been bombastic blowhards sporting beer bellies and little else.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/
The Chief is on a roll.
"Swiss citizens - for example hunters, or those who shoot as a sport - can get a permit to buy guns and ammunition, unless they have a criminal record, or police deem them unsuitable on psychiatric or security grounds. But hunters and sportsmen are greatly outnumbered by those keeping army guns - which again illustrates the difference between Switzerland and the US.
Find out more
**Prof Killias cannot hide his anger with those in America who use Switzerland to illustrate their argument that more gun ownership would deter or stop violence.
"We don't have a gun culture!" he snaps, waving his hand dismissively.
"I'm always amazed how the National Rifle Association in America points to Switzerland - they make it sound as if it was part of southern Texas!" he says.
"We have guns at home, but they are kept for peaceful purposes. There is no point taking the gun out of your home in Switzerland because it is illegal to carry a gun in the street. To shoot someone who just looks at you in a funny way - this is not Swiss culture!"**
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21379912
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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There ya go - don't ban guns, just ban the ammo.
How easy is ammo purchased? Gun license only?
I think a full doctors examination of mental disorders may help, a bit.
Comparing this tragedy to gang violence is not worth commenting on.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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There are. Over 470 Federally and untold amounts State and locally.
How many more do we need on the books that WILL NOT BE enforced? Here
There's a lot of truth in this.
So why isn't the NRA using their leverage and monies toward this.
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c wilmot
climber
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The most common form of gun violence is black on black shootings in our inner cities. Why is no one talking about that? Why no debates on THAT form of gun violence?
Its hypocritical and downright silly that people wait for a shooting that matches their agenda so they can rant about beer bellied white guys you feel above over the internet
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10b4me
Social climber
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The most common form of gun violence is black on black shootings in our inner cities. Why is no one talking about that?
oh come on, they're just thugs.
I am being sarcastic, btw.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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The same people here advocating elimination of firearms as the solution to slaughter of the unarmed sheeple also almost always advocate human depopulation as the answer to saving the planet. Seems to be some contradictory ideology amongst you. What do you want? Perhaps an imagined utopia where a benevolent all knowing government culls the herd exclusively from those that don't support your cherished though artificially induced utopian ideology? Aint going to happen idiots. Give up basic freedoms and rights and give up your lives.
The answer to senseless slaughter of innocents is to not allow such soft targets. You'll never disarm criminals and maniacs by "legal" weapon controls, but you'll stop the slaughters of innocents by arming the targets. You might initially have even more of a body count, but the ratio of those killed would heavily tilt towards the criminal and insane. Either that, or bring back the publically funded mental institutions and exchange the nonviolent offenders in prison for those criminals prowling the streets with weapons and malcontent.
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philo
climber
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c willmot turn off FOX Noise.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"The same people here advocating elimination of firearms"
Who are these people?
Specific names/avatars, please.
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philo
climber
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Distract
Divert
Deny
Repeat ad nausea.
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10b4me
Social climber
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The same people here advocating elimination of firearms as the solution to slaughter of the unarmed sheeple also almost always advocate human depopulation as the answer to saving the planet. Seems to be some contradictory ideology amongst you.
and the same people who oppose abortion, are in favor of the death penalty. WTF?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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The most common form of gun violence is black on black shootings in our inner cities. Why is no one talking about that? Why no debates on THAT form of gun violence?
Its hypocritical and downright silly that people wait for a shooting that matches their agenda so they can rant about beer bellied white guys you feel above over the internet
Blacks are the victims. Always.
Anyone who says different is a racist piece of sh#t.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Either that or bring back the publicly funded mental institutions and exchange the nonviolent offenders in prison for those criminals prowling the streets with weapons and malcontent."
I agree, one of the many changes that can be made.
How does a parent not know his child has these types of weapons in the house? The Columbine/Sandy Hook shootings come to mind.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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and the same people who oppose abortion, are in favor of the death penalty. WTF?
Protect the innocent... punish the guilty.
It's not complicated.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Yes 10b, hypocrisy exists amongst both sides of the divide. The human condition? Whoever said a walking talking stew of chemical reactions can ever achieve flawless logic.
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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A good start would be making sure every pinhead posting his plans of killing someone, and every pinhead that eggs him on or applauds the act, is arrested immediately and all his guns are confiscated.
https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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"and the same people who oppose abortion, are in favor of the death penalty"...
And the same people who think murderers have a right to live think babies don't.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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"and the same people who oppose abortion, are in favor of the death penalty"...
LOfukingL!!!...
I never thought about that one but it sure is funny as hell...
Sure is, isn't LOcker. Just confirms your whacked out logic... or ... innate BUTTSNORKLING abilities.
A 6 week old FETUS did NOT KILL 12 people and injure 70 others. Nor is it anywhere capable of doing so.
Go Figure....
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Fet said :For all those that think more guns would make us safer here's a question:
If you go to a stadium for a sports event, concert, etc. would you rather have no guns, and metal detectors as things are now? Or the "freedom" for anyone to bring a gun if they want?
As Obama said: "It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun."
That's really the crux of the issue. Me, my friends, and relatives are safe, legal gun owners. None of us belong to the NRA because the NRA is unreasonable in preventing laws that would help with no significant infringement on our rights.
We should have universal background checks, with privacy safeguards. We should have strict national laws for selling/giving a gun to someone without a background check or with a failed background check. Like 6 months in jail minimum, or 2-20 years in jail if the gun was used in a crime. Of course it won't eliminate these types of shootings but it could cut the number of people killed in half. The harder it is for someone who shouldn't have them to get guns and the harder it is to get more lethal guns the less guns will be available to those who shouldn't have them. And it would reduce handgun violence as well.
But of course gun control is just one part of the solution. We need better mental health care. A less violent culture would help. And people educated to see the warning signs and willing to take action.
Nice post,
Problem here is you're looking at fixing a demand-side problem with a supply-side issue.
That never works. Not with booze, not with drugs, not with whores, and not with guns,knives,clubs,fire,etc...
Root cause of human behavior is never a thing.
Although our useless politicians and media would have you believe so, that is not reality.
The majority of murders in our society are in the cities and involve gang violence circling the drain around another one of our governments fataly flawed supply-side solution of the "War on Drugs".
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philo
climber
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Thanks for posting up the portrait of a parasite. How about posting pictures of the victims or perhaps the unarmed hero who rushed the Oregon parasite instead. Or do you like giving parasites publicity?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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So you are now agreeing the Holmes should have been put to death... Philo?
Of course you will avoid answering that for total fear of going against the common ideology of your, ST Bros!
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philo
climber
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Oct 2, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
So you are now agreeing the Holmes should be put to death... Philo?
Of course you will avoid answering that for total fear of going against the common ideology of your, ST Bros!
I absolutely think the Parasite should be put to death.
No avoidance, no common ideology.
So will you admit you are wrong on at least this point?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"...of your, ST Bros!"
Who are these 'Bros' you refer to, who you apparently believe that do not support the death penalty under any circumstance?
Specific names/avatars, please.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I absolutely think the Parasite should be put to death.
WOW!
I was Wrong...Philo. I am amazed, seriously.
Specific names/avatars, please.
Ahh, let's start here Apogee:
locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 2, 2015 - 11:44am PT
"and the same people who oppose abortion, are in favor of the death penalty"...
LOfukingL!!!...
I never thought about that one but it sure is funny as hell...
GUD point!!!...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Well, no sh#t, Chief.
I bet you're wrong on all kinds of assumptions you've made about the beliefs of most of those you've stereotyped here, too. You'd be surprised lots of times, if you'd just ask someone, then listen.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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No "assumptions" made with the following people Apogee:
Craig Fry
BOBda
Lorenzo
KenM
Gary Schenk
Norton
Crankstar
Pretty straight up certain on them folks.
If you feel a part of the above group Apogee, that is on you.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Ummm...exactly what point does Locker's quote make for you, Chief?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 2, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
The Chief...
said it before and saying it again...
IMHO this forum is not a healthy place for you to be...
And this is coming from....... Gotcha LOcker!
Ummm...exactly what point does Locker's quote make for you, Chief?
Pretty obvious.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Why don't you ask each one of those people these specific questions:
Do you think all guns should be removed from the citizenry & destroyed?
Do you oppose the death penalty in all circumstances?
You just might be surprised at what you read...but you will have to read it.
And your broadbrush stereotypes just might fall apart.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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OK Apogeee....
HEY
Craig Fry
BOBda
Lorenzo
KenM
Gary Schenk
Norton
Crankstar
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Do you think all guns should be removed from the citizenry & destroyed?
Do you oppose the death penalty in all circumstances?
locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 2, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
An educated person that spent too much time with nuts like you...
Priceless.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Locker wrote: "And this is coming from..."...
An educated person that spent too much time with nuts like you...
Chief is way off center. Just my assumption. LOL
I have nothing to prove to Chief and could care less what that crazy ass man thinks about me. Something just doesn't click right in his head.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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So BOBda...
Do you think all guns should be removed from the citizenry & destroyed?
Do you oppose the death penalty in all circumstances?
How MANY COMBAT VETS at the VA did you "Work with" LOcker? How MANY Vets at the VA did work with, Period? Did YOU ever work at the .... VA?
I got ten bucks says you "Honestly" answer NO to all three above.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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So Chief...go sit on a sharp pole.
Can you read...I have nothing to prove to Chief and could care less what that crazy ass man thinks about me. Something just doesn't click right in his head.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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See Apogee,
First ONE, BOBda, won't even touch the two questions.
Let's see if the others do......
First this post...
locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 2, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
"And this is coming from..."...
An educated person that spent too much time with nuts like you...
Followed by this "educated" post....
locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 2, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
"How MANY COMBAT VETS at the VA did you "Work with" LOcker?"...
Where do a LOT of "Vets" end up The Chief???...
and sorry!!!...
I am not into mutual masturbation...
We got a WINNER there, LOcker!
Once again, Priceless.
EDIT:
BTW, Where do they "end up" LOCker??
Use that education of yours and Do tell.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I turned on Fox News this morning while driving into Choss Creek to get the mail. The commentators were ranting about how wrong it was that Obama was not saying anything about all the gang-related shootings in Chicago.
Wow, oh WoW I thought!
Fox News must be following Das Chuf's posts here on ST.
Das Chuf being a leader & not a follower, couldn't possibly have picked up that line of bluster from Fox?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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The glaring problem with the Chief is that his cup is spilling over, knows all. No room left, the sponge is full.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Well, that's one of the people on your list. Given the quality of the dialogue that goes on between you & Bob, it's not too surprising.
But you've got several others who just might answer those questions. And though I'm not on the list:
No, I don't think all guns should be removed from the citizenry. I believe the second amendment is appropriate, and all Americans should have a right to own a gun(s). I also believe that reasonable restrictions on some types of guns ownership is appropriate.
I believe the death penalty is appropriate in certain extreme cases where there is absolutely no doubt of guilt, and that it should be carried out post haste without all of the legal drama & expense that usually follows it.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Fritz wrote: I turned on Fox News this morning while driving into Choss Creek to get the mail. The commentators were ranting about how wrong it was that Obama was not saying anything about all the gang-related shootings in Chicago.
Wow, oh WoW I thought!
Fox News must be following Das Chuf's posts here on ST.
Birds of feather, flock together.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Rick Poedtke wrote:
...BUTTSNORKLING...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Actually, most of the gun-nutz who are posting here are probably getting those Chicago shootings talking points from FauxNews, then regurgitating them here.
They aren't birds flocking together so much as sheep following the Murdoch, it would seem.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Actually, most of the gun-nutz who are posting here are probably getting those Chicago shootings talking points from FauxNews, then regurgitating them here.
Nice stereotype.
Which gun-nutz are you talking about?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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There's #2 Apogee.
So Far, both BOBda and Gary Schenk will not answer for fear of..
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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No, Sketch, a stereotype would say that all of the gun-nutz here are getting those talking points from FauxNews.
Some are getting them from Drudge. Or via an email on their Compaq 386 from another gun-nut. Not too many though are likely creating them all on their own, though.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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It would be great to have a president who seemed remotely interested in actually doing his job (like conducting foreign policy and commanding the armed forces, and not getting his ass kicked by Putin on a daily basis) instead of spouting off on things like gun control, which, to the extent can be validly regulated by any governmental entity in the US, should be regulated at the state level.
The enumerated powers of federal government don't say anything about disarming the citizenry.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Bob flat out turned you down. Haven't heard anything that direct from anybody else, though.
That said, I do recall many of the people on that list making statements regarding those questions over the years...and they don't tend to fall squarely in the camp you seem to think they do.
But they should speak for themselves.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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No, Sketch, a stereotype would say that all of the gun-nutz here are getting those talking points from FauxNews.
Now what was all that about me making... "Assumptions", Apogee.
I get my "Talking Points" from a "Anti Gang Operational Youth Group" which I worked with for 2 and half years in SO Central that I still keep in contact with on a regular basis.
The leader is originally from, So Chicago and is thoroughly disgusted at the what has been going on their and the ineptness of both the local and federal government in stopping it.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Chief wrote: So Far, both BOBda and Gary Schenk will not answer for fear of..
Nothing.
I told you before, when I come out to see Kevin you can ask me anything you want in person. No fear of you or your lame ass bullying.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Which gun-nutz are you talking about?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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The ones that don't seem to believe that any kind of limitations should be present around any type of gun....the ones that seem to shrug off these massacres as 'acceptable loss' in the name of the Second Amendment.
But again...maybe that's an assumption. Hard to tell, because we don't seem to get straight answers from them on their positions. Enlighten us, please!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I told you before, when I come out to see Kevin you can ask me anything you want in person. No fear of you or your lame ass bullying.
WTF does that have anything to do with Apogees request?
Nice dodge as usual BOBda.
You are obviously going to say what I have been "assuming" all along and do not want to see me proven, right.
LMAO... again?
The ones that don't seem to believe that any kind of limitations should be present around any type of gun.
What "type of gun" would that be, Apogee?
The latest Whack Job had a Long Rifle and three pistols. The fker in SC had a single standard totally legal Glock .45 pistol.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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The ones that don't seem to believe that any kind of limitations should be present around any type of gun....the ones that seem to shrug off these massacres as 'acceptable loss' in the name of the Second Amendment.
But again...maybe that's an assumption. Hard to tell, because we don't seem to get straight answers from them on their positions. Enlighten us, please!
Speaking of not getting straight answers. Nice dodge. Again.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Turns out to be another mental health problem like everyone of these mass murders by young men.
How do you keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people?
Everybody wants that right? Maybe the NRA doesn't want to have that discussion because they are afraid of the COST $$$$ involved. What a dirty business lobbying for the gun industry.
The Chief, go fishing.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sketch, if I had any idea what you were talking about, I just might answer you directly.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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"and the same people who oppose abortion, are in favor of the death penalty"...
Yeah, life is funny.
The same people who want government out of our business want to restrict a woman's right to choice.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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How about answering my question Apogee.
"What type Gun" are your referring to?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Turns out to be another mental health problem like everyone of these mass murders by young men.
How do you keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people?
How indeed.
I hope we never get to the point where we must turn over our private medical records to purchase anything.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I hope we never get to the point where we must turn over our private medical records to purchase anything.
OH man. But those that would insist on that want a to keep it so as a women has the choice to do as they wish with their bodies.
Go figure.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Chief wrote: WTF does that have anything to do with Apogees request?
Your request.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Ah, NO BOBDA!
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 2, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
You'd be surprised lots of times, if you'd just ask someone, then listen.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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For Apogee
Actually, most of the gun-nutz who are posting here are probably getting those Chicago shootings talking points from FauxNews, then regurgitating them here.
Which gun-nutz are you talking about?
I'm asking which posters you were talking about. Who? Specific names.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Christsakes man you are thick. He is suggesting that YOU ask..you are doing the asking. They are your questions, you are asking for anwsers. You directed those questions to seven people.
Chief wrote: OK Apogeee....
HEY
Craig Fry
BOBda
Lorenzo
KenM
Gary Schenk
Norton
Crankstar
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Do you think all guns should be removed from the citizenry & destroyed?
Do you oppose the death penalty in all circumstances?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 2, 2015 - 12:31pm PT
Why don't you ask each one of those people these specific questions:
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
Chief wrote: OK Apogeee....
HEY
Craig Fry
BOBda
Lorenzo
KenM
Gary Schenk
Norton
Crankstar
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Do you think all guns should be removed from the citizenry & destroyed?
Do you oppose the death penalty in all circumstances?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! Put the pipe down BOBda.
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10b4me
Social climber
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A question for the gun owners.
How many guns do you need to protect yourselves?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Steve:
Two.
A Semi Auto 9 shot Pistol with five loaded mags (Glock 19)
A Tactical 20'er Nine Shot 12g Shotgun with at a min 20 rounds of Buskshot and 20 rounds of 1oz 1625fps slug shot. (Mossberg)
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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I'll answer that: None.
Next question to gun owners: How many times have your guns been used in criminal activity?
Answer for me, my relatives and my friends (hundreds of guns): None.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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just GOOGLE vets and alchohol/drug/mental problems or anything in that area...
Google?
I thought you were educated and worked with nuts like me, LOCker?
In other words, you're full of shet, again, and haven't a clue.
RFLMAO... again! Thanks LOcker.
BTW LOcker, at last count there is in the range of over 1.4 million of us "vets and alchohol/drug/mental problems or anything in that area...". That of course is far as the VA has records of. Probably twice that amount that have never contacted the VA. Obvious reasons. It's track record of total ineptness and incompetence.
And people wonder why there are so many of us.
AH, BOBDa.... once again you do not read or listen to the shet you post...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Saying he does conceal carry in case “I’m in close proximity” to an incident where he might try to save some lives, Parker admitted he’s not the type who believes that “there’s always somebody out there behind your back ready to do something like this.”
Conservative commentators — none of whom were caught up in the panic and confusion at the college campus — have complained that the school’s “gun-free” designation drew the shooter there and that a “good guy with a gun” could have stopped him.
Parker explained that his military training provided him with the skills to “go into danger,” but said he felt lucky he and others didn’t try to get involved going after Mercer.
“Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” he explained. “We were quite a distance away from the building where this was happening. And we could have opened ourselves up to be potential targets ourselves, and not knowing where SWAT was, their response time, they wouldn’t know who we were. And if we had our guns ready to shoot, they could think that we were bad guys.”
Oh man!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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I read and listen to links I post Chief, you just hear different voices than me.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
I read and listen to links I post Chief, you just hear different voices than me.
Voices??
There was just one speaking here.
Obviously that is also another issue you have. Try listening to the actual one speaking and NOT the one/s in your head, BOBda.
“We were quite a distance away from the building where this was happening.
Thus, there was NOTHING he could readily do. Good call on his part.
AND...
Saying he does conceal carry in case “I’m in close proximity” to an incident where he might try to save some lives
I am pretty certain that if he was within immediate range to attempt and quell the active shooter with his weapon, he would have.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Well, Chief, we could start out by reinstating the Federal Assault Weapons ban (and the types of guns in included, updated for 2015 technology) that Bush chose not to reinstate.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"I'm asking which posters you were talking about. Who? Specific names."
You mean besides Chief's constant, perseverating Chicago rant, and c wilmot chiming in? Let me go back through related threads and pick them out. That might take some time.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 2, 2015 - 03:08pm PT
Well, Chief, we could start out by reinstating the Federal Assault Weapons ban
And how Apogee would that have prevented Sandy Hook, Colorado Theater, SC Church, and yesterday's shooting. How?
ALL weapons used in those incidents were all classified as non "Assualt Weps" under the definition of the law you mention.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Do you think all guns should be removed from the citizenry & destroyed?
Yes. All swords should be beaten into plowshares.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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come on admit it
This 400 post thread, is missing,
One of the gun tote nest brigands or braggarts
And we all in unison should say
Bring Back - Ron -"i wa' a cop" Anderson!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Crankstar
Step 1: never vote for a Republican, the sleazy lapdogs of the NRA. They are owed by the gun lobby. Their answer is always the same, more guns will keep you safe. Insane, America haters.
Democrats are mayors of all the cities in gun violent turmoil currently in the US... Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, NYC etc etc
The POTUS is a Dem and has been for ...
Sandy Hook
Colorado Theater
South Carolina Church
and
Yesterday.
As well as as many other "mass shootings" that go on daily within inner city America since Jan of 2009.
Appears that them DEMs are far worse America Haters for allowing ALL this gun violence shet to continue under their direct control/watches the past 5-7 years!
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Hey Chief. I'm a conservative. And you are a f*#king Idiot. Please continue posting. You make yourself look more credible with every word you type.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Can you name how many shootings were prevented or minimized because of that Ban?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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So is NORTON! "F". A supposed conservative. BFD!
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 2, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
Can you name how many shootings were prevented or minimized because of that Ban?
I can name the latest that WERE NOT!
Sandy Hook
Colorado Theater
South Carolina Church
and
Yesterday.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Which VA did you work at LOcker?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Do any of you seriously think the string of senseless slaughters The Chief just posted would have gone down if the schools would have been guarded by the likes of the trio of a heavily armed Ron, The Chief and that murderous ex special forces guy Donini. Let me answer for you-NO. These school shooting perps are cowards looking to make a name for their twisted selves.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Ah, you didn't work at any VA.
BUT BUT...
Yes, I have personally worked with MANY "Vets"...
EDIT:
So why then did you post this shet....
If you know what GOOGLE is...
just GOOGLE vets and alchohol/drug/mental problems or anything in that area...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Well then, where are all THEM "many Vets" you "worked with?"
Where did they... "end up"?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 2, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
Chief...
You have to KNOW that "Vets" end up in ALL of the detox facilities around America...
Many plucked right off the corners of the streets as they beg for money to get that next "Fix"...
Nice generalization.
You're not doing yourself a bit of good being an as#@&%e to everyone, day in and day out...
I am an Asshule to "everyone"?
RFLMAO... again. Thanks LOcker.
Should I start reposting the shet that you and several others have directed at
Edward T
Jody
TGT
AND
Anyone else that DOES NOT agree or go along with the repug hate shet you and the others pound on the table about day in and day out.
The Mirror LOcker. Time to go look in that Mirror.
Etc etc etc
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Bushmaster Model XM15-E2S semiautomatic rifle is really not an assault rifle but was design as one and use as one but really isn't one by law.
The power of the gun lobbyists.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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We clearly have a higher rate of both gun violence and mass shootings than any other first world country. I'm pretty sure no-one is arguing that.
And there are many cities, mostly Democratic ones(as most major cities are Democratic, this is kind of a given), that have high rates of gun violence. There are many reasons for this, and gun control laws, or lack thereof, are probably only a minor one.
That fact doesn't also mean that we shouldn't try something to reduce this level of gun related violence. There would be fairly little inconvenience to most gun owners/purchasers if we put into place a few stricter rules. Better background checks and tracking might be a start, so that if someone has as many firearms as this guy, maybe he gets a little extra scrutiny.
Pretty much everyone realizes that this won't fix everything. We don't put in place drunk driving laws thinking that it will completely do away with that. We hope that they will make the situation better.
And don't give me this BS that minor changes will result in only BAD GUYS having guns. Or that you need more and better guns for self-defense. Absent a zombie apocalypse or ISIS invasion(both with about a 0% likelihood of happening), self-defense and/or hunting really only require a few firearms. Saying you need more for self defense because bad guys have guns isn't too accurate. And I'm pretty sure the writers of the Constitution didn't envision some constant escalation of citizen owned weapons with the 2nd Amendment.
"Say Mr. Madison, don't you think that 250 years in the future, since the murder rate in the bad parts of Baltimore are high, that we should allow all citizens to own their own artificially intelligent hunter-killer drones. Because you know if we don't allow everyone to have as many hunter-killer drones as they want, only the bad guys will have them."
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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More like FACT...
ref or it's bullshet like most of all the crap fiction you post here, LOcker.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
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Bushmaster Model XM15-E2S semiautomatic rifle is really not an assault rifle but was design as one and use as one but really isn't one by law.
The power of the gun lobbyists.
It's scary looking and BLACK!
I peed down my leg when I googled an image!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Oct 2, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
That fact doesn't also mean that we shouldn't try something to reduce this level of gun related violence.
There are currently well over 1500 Fed, State and Local Strict Gun Control laws on the books in this nation, Steve P.
What do you suggest we do.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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An interesting statistic to see would be the time frame between a shooter legally obtaining a firearm used during a school shooting (only applicable for whatever number were verified as such, not sure that number either?) and the shooting itself. If long time often passes between when a gun is purchased and used for these events it might suggest that changes in legislation would have little effect for several years, or vice versa - a pattern of recent purchases and uses might suggest quick legislation could prevent a handful of possible cases.
But, all speculation, and like finding the next terror attack like nailing jello to the wall. I for one think we should ban all index fingers.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey The Chief...
Thing is, you know I am correct...
Why it bothers you is not my problem...
No LOcker.
You are as you usually are, full of shet.
No REF.
That is what I figured.
Google it and come up with something....LOcker
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Chief wrote: Nice generalization.
Coming from the guy who makes them all the time. Libtards, loons and so on.
Cragman wrote: My Bushmaster isn't scary looking at all!
I think that would be Jesus choice of weapon too.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Chief
There are currently well over 1500 Fed, State and Local Strict Gun Control laws on the books in this nation, Steve P.
What do you suggest we do.
I made one suggestion. Improve background checks and tracking, and maybe involve a greater level of review after some number of firearm purchases(more than 10 and you get a personal review from ATF?). Better cross-checking between mental health and firearm records? There are probably other things that might help. I don't know if they will. And if they don't, I'm perfectly happy if we undo them.
The point is, we seem unwilling/unable to try anything. Even things that would have zero affect on most gun owners and purchasers.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Negative BoBda...
This is what Jesus's choice of weapon is..."
Of course that is stated in the bible.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Steve P
Better cross-checking between mental health and firearm records?
How are you going to do that without breaching the Federal Privacy Act and other regulations that totally disallow that to occur.
Are YOU willing to divulge all your medical records in order to get a Drivers Lic, Steve P.?
And, where will the "threshold" be for disapproval be regarding "Mental Health"?
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dirtbag
climber
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He won't locker.
Waste of time discussing anything with him.
You're right, dude's got problems.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Let's start with this...
There are over 3.2 MILLION Veterans in the VA System to date Locker.
You are WRONG, LOcker.
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dirtbag
climber
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I get sucked in now and then too, locker.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Stricter gun laws and less deaths NJ, NY RI etc.. You guys that like to play with guns are going to lose your toys because you let lobby's like the NRA supposedly protect your rights . The NRA's message is to do nothing.
It's easy; if you want to own something a lethal as a gun then you need to sacrifice your medical records confidentiality. the Chief would very probably lose his rights to own guns due to PTSD.
This is necessary since our wonderful society also refuses to address the mental health problem and only jails them to deal with it.
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philo
climber
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Hard to avoid the Black hole of Shetlandia.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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if you want to own something a lethal as a gun then you need to sacrifice your medical records confidentiality
More people are killed annually in this nation behind the wheel or as a pax of a lethal vehicle than they are by a gun.
Are we to subject anyone that wants a license to the same scrutiny?
Or how about Alcohol. Over 88,000 die annually from alcohol abuse nation wide. Maybe we should start monitoring how many beers, glasses of wine etc everyone has per day.
Or....
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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That's a cop out Madbolter. The USA has the most asinine, out of control gun culture in the First World.
I have NO idea what the phrase "gun culture" even means, and neither do you.
It's slipping away, but we've had a FREE culture. In a FREE culture, some people abuse their freedoms. That CANNOT be stopped in advance. Period.
Unless you wanna go straight at Minority Report.
The irony here is that Obama now EMBRACES the politicization of gun control, HOT on the heels of the latest mass-shooting, yet he has had not ONE word to say against the black-on-black shootings that are the bread and butter of HIS HOOD. And not ONE law he would propose would have stopped or reduced the death toll of this latest shooting nor most of the preceding ones.
We are 300 times more likely to be murdered by firearms than people in Japan....50 times more likely than the citizens of France, Germany or Great Britain.
Show the stats.
And while you're at it, be REAL and subtract the death toll from black-on-black crime, gangland crime (often closely correlated), and drug-related crime (also closely correlated). While you're at it, subtract the shootings in the most gun-regulated HOODS in the USA: Chicago, Baltimore, DC, and the list goes on.
Subtract all the BS shootings that Obama has NOTHING to say about, and you'll find that we're right in line with other first world nations. THE problem has NOTHING to do with guns, their "availability," or the 99.9999999% of gun owners that would not abuse their God-given (not constitutionally-granted) freedom. THE problem is the one you have NO answer for and that NO legislation will touch: Human nature.
You cite first world stats, and that is a great irony. You SHOULD be comparing these "gun free" cities with third-world countries, the civil wars and tribal wars, and the other disrespect of human life that these cities have bred. Take these literally third-world hotspots out of the US stats, and we are doing just fine.
Oh, except for the odd nutball like this latest one. And there's NOTHING you or anybody else is going to do to keep that from happening. The BEST you can hope for in such an incident is that he gets put down like the mad dog he is BEFORE the cops arrive to clean up the mess.
It's NO cop-out to note that NO proposed gun laws will stop such mad dogs. So, it's SICK and WRONG for our president to embrace the politicization of such a tragic incident by USING the tragedy to foist off an agenda on us that MOST of us want no part of.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Our friends to the north"
Canada
The U.S.'s neighbor to the north also has outstandingly low gun casualty statistics. In 2009, there were 0.5 deaths per 100,000 from gun homicide — only 173 people. Still, the ownership is comparatively high — there are 23.8 firearms per 100 people in the country.
There is no legal right to possess arms in Canada. It takes sixty days to buy a gun there, and there is mandatory licensing for gun owners. Gun owners pursuing a license must have third-party references, take a safety training course and pass a background check with a focus on mental, criminal and addiction histories.
Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license, and licenses are denied to applicants with any past history of domestic violence. Buyers in private sales of weapons must pass official background checks.
Canadian civilians aren't allowed to possess automatic weapons, handguns with a barrel shorter than 10.5 cm or any modified handgun, rifle or shotgun. Most semi-automatic assault weapons are also banned. As a result of exemptions, several kinds of assault weapons are still legal in Canada, although this has been the source of some controversy.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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this one got me to re think ever looking at this thread again , it makes me wonder what else I missed. . . I won't be checking though, I live down the street from Sandy Hook where a confused, abused child,one un- inspired/realized idiot savant shoot up a bunch of babies,
kill shots? No. Dismemberment by rapid fire. . .
But like I said this cut through the tragedy
And made me smile. . .
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 2, 2015 - 04:04pm PT
Do any of you seriously think the string of senseless slaughters The Chief just posted would have gone down if the schools would have been guarded by the likes of the trio of a heavily armed Ron, The Chief and that murderous ex special forces guy Donini. Let me answer for you-NO. These school shooting perps are cowards looking to make a name for their twisted selves.
I don't know they might need a jungle, they are all Vietnam era!
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philo
climber
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Do you hate the man so much that you deliberately misconstrue his words or is reading comprehension the issue?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"...an obviously devastating administration."
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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There is no legal right to possess arms in Canada.
That is a prime evidence of the fundamental philosophical difference between the United States and Canada. Canada, sadly, believes in benevolent tyranny. By contrast....
The USA was FOUNDED on the INALIENABLE RIGHTS of its people, while ALL other nations merely point in the general direction of "rights" and give lip service to what they actually do not believe.
The USA was founded to PROTECT and UPHOLD, NOT grant, those rights. The constitution merely recognizes those rights and FOUNDS this nation on the ONLY legitimate purpose of government: the protection of those rights.
EVERY nation that trammels on the right of self defense and the capacity to overthrow tyranny is an illegitimate government. Period. I don't care what "form" of government it is. If that government makes some rights a "privilege" while denying others, it is NOT a government founded TO protect the INALIENABLE rights of its people, and it is therefore illegitimate.
Those of you that cite Canada as the exemplar of how a nation should be run should immediately move to England. I mean, really, go to the SEAT of that philosophy. Here in AMERICA, we believe in RIGHTS. Inalienable ones. Including the inconvenient and even dangerous ones. We believe that the constitution RECOGNIZES rights rather than grants them. We believe that ANY enemy, foreign OR domestic, can be identified primarily by their expressed desire to trammel on inalienable rights.
In a free society, some will abuse their freedoms. They should be PUT DOWN without media attention (the root of this latest spate of copy-cat mass-killings), without being publicly named, and preferably before they can get more than one round out of the barrel, or thrust of the knife, or swing of the bat, or any of the other ways people violate the rights of others!
Meanwhile, the 99.9999% who do not abuse their freedoms should be left alone and not viewed with suspicion like a "potential criminal."
The greatest tragedy in all of these "gun free zone" mass shootings is that there is only ONE guy with a gun until the cops eventually show up. That is the greatest tragedy BECAUSE the right of SELF defense has been trammeled on by the "masterminds" who claim to know how to keep us "safe."
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Phil wrote: Do you hate the man so much that you deliberately misconstrue his words or is reading comprehension the issue?
Isn't it obvious.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Nice rant...
The greatest tragedy in all of these "gun free zone" mass shootings is that there is only ONE guy with a gun until the cops eventually show up. That is the greatest tragedy BECAUSE the right of SELF defense has been trammeled on by the "masterminds" who claim to know how to keep us "safe."
With 310 million guns in this country I really don't think your rights to self defense has been trammeled on.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Yes madbolter your rights to be armed have really been taken away.
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philo
climber
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FYI the UCC campus was NOT a gun free zone.
So let's not use that hackneyed canard.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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With 310 million guns in this country I really don't think your rights to self defense has been trammeled on.
Actually, in every "gun free" zone, an ever-growing number, they are.
And your picture, while amusing, bears about zero resemblance to the truth. Actually, the numbers in that picture should give YOU pause, because the stats regarding the sheer number of guns and gun owners in this nation, virtually all of which are good, law-abiding citizens rather than one of the rare nutjobs, makes the point that our current "gun culture" is an extremely NON-violent one after all.
Now, contrast that with the third-world, gun-control cities in this nation, and you'll have some legitimate stats that will prove to even you that GUNS are not the problem. A third-world fixation on VIOLENCE is the problem.
And apparently you prefer to miss the REAL problem, the problem that is evidenced all over the third world with hundreds of millions dead. We're not talking 10 here or 20 there. We're talking tens of thousands per incident. And WHO SUPPLIES the guns and actual WMDs for those conflicts? Here's your list:
United States
United Kingdom
Russia
China
France
Ironically, these are also the ONLY five permanent members of the UN Security Council.
YOUR tax dollars at work: funding and supplying MASS shootings all over the world.
When Obama and many presidents before him do it on an international scale, it's called "US interests." When some nutjob does it on a tiny scale, it's OBAMA screaming for "more gun control."
It has NEVER been about controlling GUNS! Neither the right nor the left really care about that.
It's about controlling PEOPLE, and in a FREE society, that you CANNOT do.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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FYI the UCC campus was NOT a gun free zone.
True, almost almost nobody knows that fact. It is PROCLAIMED to be a gun-free zone. And only CCW permit holders and LEOs can legally carry firearms on campus.
Too bad a CCW permit holder was not on scene, because the shooter certainly believed he was attacking soft targets, thanks to UCC PROCLAIMING itself to be gun-free.
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philo
climber
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Why do people assume this parasite specifically chose what he thought was a soft target?
I haven't heard anything confirming such a notion. It's more likely he had it out for someone or something at the campus. Maybe he didn't like his library fine holding up his graduation.
Point is quit assuming based on preconceived notions. Just like when one of the tribe dies climbing, wait for the confirmed data.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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MadBolter writes:
"And only CCW permit holders and LEOs can legally carry firearms on campus."
Not students or faculty at Umpqua.
From Umpqua C.C. :
"Possession, use, or threatened use of firearms (including but not limited to BB guns, air guns, water pistols, and paint guns) ammunition, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or any other objects as weapons on college property, except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations, is prohibited."
https://www.umpqua.edu/safety-security-information
Sounds like another Gun Free Zone to me. What do you think, M.B.?
I suppose non-students and non-faculty permit holders are OK to carry. But how many folks like that are on campus? Better not be any.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"It's about controlling PEOPLE, and in a FREE society, that you CANNOT do."
Where is this free society you talk of.
Never has been, never will be.
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WBraun
climber
|
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Another false flag and stoopid Americans are always 0wned.
They don't need gun control.
They'll just take yer stoopid head away next.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"The next common denominator is locations where guns aren't allowed. Remove that restriction right now, and the next guy is toast, and then the next, and do on.
So why is that countries with much stricter laws have was less of these type of shootings?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Sounds like another Gun Free Zone to me. What do you think, M.B.?
My point exactly. CCW holders, however, have a state-preemption-issued right to carry even where otherwise prohibited to open carry, such as college campuses. Oregon is, btw, an open-carry state.
But, as you note, to all the world, UCC is a gun-"free" zone.
And in answer to the earlier question of why is presumed that this nutjob chose a soft target is that these nutjobs ALL do these mass-shootings in supposedly gun-free zones. And we do know from some of them (the ones that live to be interviewed, etc.) that it was by design. So, it's clear that they know, it's clear that they calculate how much mayhem they can cause in the mandatory time before police respond, and it's clear from their tactics that they do not expect resistance from their victims.
The media glorification of these events is a HUGE problem and has become as much of a CAUSE as the underlying mental illness. When one of these incidents happens, there should be the BAREST factual reporting, with neither the victims' NOR the assailant's name being released. The death penalty should be SURE and SWIFT and PUBLIC. Let the wannabes see that there shall be NO glory... only the SURE and CERTAIN outcome of dangling from the neck until dead, in public, with the loss of bowel and bladder control there for anybody who cares to see to see. You don't want to see it? Change the channel. Simple.
BTW, I don't single Obama out for special condemnation, as though, for example, the Bushes get a pass for their arms-dealing and war-mongering. No, I single him out for special hypocrisy, as it truly is SICK and WRONG for him to USE these incidents as he does to attempt to control law-abiding people while HE sells weapons all over the world.
Oh, and anybody remember Fast and Furious? Under the Obumbalator's administration, not one person went to prison over that nightmare.
This is NOT about guns. This is about control.
And you people that are pushing for more "gun control" are utterly missing the boat on both counts, not to mention that the very incidents you cite (such as this latest) would NOT be prevented or even mitigated by ANY form of "reasonable gun control" that you USE such an incident to advocate for.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Because they often have better social programs and less individual freedoms?
The blanket statements from both sides of the issue tend to ignore the realistic scenarios that occur. Then again, there's not a whole lot of press generated when someone with a CCW takes down an active shooter. Often because the victim count stays low, so the newsworthiness just isn't in it. In those cases, we can never really know if a good guy stopped a mass murder, or just your average homicide.
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philo
climber
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^^^ Better yet why not soak everyone down with gasoline and hand out Zippo lighters to all.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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So why is that countries with much stricter laws have was less of these type of shootings?
"Way less" by what metrics?
And the short answer, even IF you can answer the first question is: WE DON'T KNOW. YOU don't, and I don't.
The difference between us, however, is that YOU PRESUME and act like you know. And then you want to IMPOSE your mere OPINION on the rest of us.
There are plenty of countries with laxer gun control than we have, yet they have a lower incidence per-capita of shootings. Why is THAT?
You have a theory based upon false-cause arguments. You have an opinion that you claim we all SHOULD (with full moral force) try out in experiment. When we dispute with you that we don't agree with your causal theory, when we assert that you have NOT convinced us by force of REASON, and when we assert that you do NOT get to violate the inalienable rights of the many to combat the sickness of a few, THEN you assert that we are WRONG (with full moral force).
But you will not "shame" us into submission to your non-arguments. We the many law-abiding citizens are in NO WAY a factor in the actions of the sick few. When you start taking seriously the SICKNESS rather than the tool, then you will have me and millions like me on board.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Bob D'A wrote "So why is that countries with much stricter laws have was less of these type of shootings?"
you bad writer. maybe you work on speaking and writing the english more better.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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gunz & butter
gunz & beer
gunz & money
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I think the POPE and the POTUS should take the lead in setting the moral example and have all their Security no longer carry any... GUNS!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Well I tend to agree with this guy and others like him.
Well, sorry, but your "tendencies" don't carry any moral weight. YOU started this unnecessary, yet another, gun thread. YOU did it attempting to shame people into DOING SOMETHING, just as our Obumbalator in Chief did. And YOU have taken not a SINGLE step toward actually offering ANY convincing relations between the occasional sickness we just saw evidenced and any gun-control legislation or lack thereof.
You occupy no high moral ground on this issue, and we law-abiding, sane, gun-packing citizens are not in ANY way part of the problem that is somehow, magically going to be legislated away by the likes of you or some hypocritical president. If anything, this thread takes the moral low ground.
Really, you should delete this thread, as it contributes nothing new compared to the other gun threads. Instead, this thread is just a climber speaking Obumbletalk, and it's not moving any of us that see it for what it IS. This thread, as does the Obumbalator, PANDERS to the knee-jerk reactions of the hand-wringing minority that believe that doing "something," ANYTHING, is always better than being SURE that you understand causal chains before attempting to impose opinions on a free nation.
Why is the Obumbalator not pounding his bully pulpit EVERY DAY about gun control, when EVERY DAY many times more people are gunned down in HIS HOOD in black-on-black violence?
Oh, perhaps it's because HE KNOWS, as do we all, that THAT gun-violence is NOT going to be solved by ANY proposed gun-control legislation. HE KNOWS that's a non-starter. So the ENDLESS violence in HIS HOOD cannot be USED for his own purposes.
Well, it's just as much a non-starter in this latest mass-shooting incident. You're not entitled to any moral hobby-horse here, and I find it flat-out offensive that this sort of tragedy is hypocritically USED like a FLAIL to plead, cajole, and shame others into "doing something," anything!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Well, it's just as much a non-starter in this latest mass-shooting incident. You're not entitled to any moral hobby-horse here, and I find it flat-out offensive that this sort of tragedy is hypocritically USED like a FLAIL to plead, cajole, and shame others into "doing something," anything!"
And what high horse did you ride in on?
Your rants mean nothing to me.
If you don't like the thread I started why do you keeping coming back to put your two cents in?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Mad...you seem so sure of yourself and your convictions on this, me not so, change is needed with gun laws, how we treat mental illness and various other issues in America.
Never said I had the answers just that the current system is broken. I have my opinions.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Recent studies have reported that the urgency to carry guns and to support pro-gun policies in public forums is proportional to...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Your Russell quote is spot on.
I don't know, and neither do you.
The difference between us is that YOU started yet another gun-control thread BASED UPON your NOT KNOWING, yet acting like you know what we should do: SOMETHING... ANYTHING that involves MORE gun-control. Gun control, yayyyy! That'll fix it. Or at least it will "help" in some way. Yayyy!
YOU are the one advocating that we LEGISLATE in SOME way, despite the fact that NO legislation will even touch the sorts of incidents you USE to make a point that you cannot sustain. Hypocrisy.
I put in my .02 to respond to you and yours, so that your sort of thinking can't gain ANY more adherents among thinking, rational people. Your view is statistically losing, but eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
And it sure is crickets around here regarding my statements about the flagrant hypocrisy of the Obumbalator and his followers.
EDIT: Oh, I see that you back-edited your Russell-picture post to "respond" to me "in advance."
Mad...you seem so sure of yourself and your convictions on this, me not so, change is needed with gun laws, how we treat mental illness and various other issues in America.
Never said I had the answers just that the current system is broken. I have my opinions.
You can't wiggle out by now claiming that you just "have" your opinions. You post dozens of times with stats comparing the US with other "first world countries," conveniently ignoring the fact that we have entire CITIES that are in culture and even population themselves third-world countries.
You post dozens of times with pleas like this: "Wouldn't it be nice if we were more like the other first world countries?" While clearly pointing the finger at more gun control as the solution.
And so on.
Don't PUNT now. You don't just HAVE an opinion. You are convinced that gun-control legislation will be a significant factor in making us "more like other first world countries." And you ADVOCATE for that by USING this latest tragedy that would not be TOUCHED by any gun control legislation.
I call you hypocrite who does NOT get to pretend that the Russell quote applies to you. And I again express my outrage that people like you (and the Obumbalator) USE such incidents to even obliquely posture on getting more gun-control legislation passed as knee-jerk reactions to events the YOU KNOW your proposed legislation will do NOTHING to prevent.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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MB, don't you feel inadequate, like me, in not being able to fathom how more laws will
divest criminals and crankloons of their guns?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Cragman, if McCain or Romney had this record after 4 or 7 years, you'd be singing their praises.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Cragman wrote: Obama has "cut the Bush deficit?" Wow....now there is a COMPLETE ignoring of facts. And how about that 19 trillion dollar deficit?
Do you understand the difference between debt and deficit?
You have so much anger penned up.
"Obama "got bin Laden?" Your president couldn't get a gopher on the south lawn. Navy SEAL's got bin Laden.....while your president sat back and took the same credit he took for his Nobel....what a jackwagon."
He gave the order, he is the head of the armed forces and if you live in America he is your president too.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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MB, don't you feel inadequate, like me, in not being able to fathom how more laws will divest criminals and crankloons of their guns?
Oh, you know it, brother!
But the worst for me is seeing these tragic incidents USED by gun-control proponents to advocate for legislation that they themselves admit would accomplish NOTHING toward preventing or even mitigating.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Look, I can empathize with being tired of a POTUS you didn't vote for- especially after two terms. After 6-7 years of Bush, I was spitting mad at the shithole he and his 'Project for a New American Century' puppeteers had created for this country, at the expense of lives, limbs, and Trillion$ of Americans.
But the kicker was when he left office with the economy in the greatest smoldering disaster that had nearly ever been seen in our history. That's quite a legacy!
If you can set your ideology aside...I'm sure that's impossible to do...and look at where this country comparatively after 7 years...there is no rational way to conclude that we are worse off than in 2008. And to reiterate: if either McCain or Romney was leaving office with most of this legacy, you'd be beating your chests and ranting their glory.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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cragman wrote: apogee....crankster....Bob D'A....et al....delusional supporters of their delusional president.
Coming from a man who who is believes in a white guy flying around in the sky with little white angels flying all around him, who believes there was a Noah's Ark, that the earth was created in six days and that dinosaurs roam the earth with human 5,000 years ago.
Ok.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Backatcha, Cragman. But I'd still share a beer with you.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"So.....what is the response from you Liberal Obama lovers regarding Christians being singled out and murdered???"
Wtf???
Please provide a link.
"Obama "cut unemployment in half?" Not even close.....workers left the marketplace to take advantage of all of your president's freebies."
Link please.
"Obama "ended two wars?" Not hardly. He created a vacuum that is causing more harm....and has weakened our standing in the world. Your pathetic president is now Putin's bitch."
Link please and such talk from a man of god.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apogee, I appreciate your attitude. Good on ya, man!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Whoa, there Bob. You have become the master of the "responding" back-edit! It's much more honest to respond in-chain rather than in "advance."
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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I don't take advice from a loser named Potato Head from bum-f*#k nowhere white bread Idaho.
But don't let that stop you from posting.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
Cragman wrote: Obama has "cut the Bush deficit?" Wow....now there is a COMPLETE ignoring of facts. And how about that 19 trillion dollar deficit?
You have so much anger penned up.
OR
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2015 - 09:03pm PT
I don't take advice from a loser named Potato Head from bum-f*#k nowhere white bread Idaho.
Why is it BOBda and some others here, that if anyone does NOT agree nor align themselves with your Liberal ideology, they are "angry", "bullies", "idiots", "loser", "pit bulls" etc etc etc....
Must be the Liberal NORMAL! A definite pattern of total intolerance, complete hate and a stern bias stance.
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 2, 2015 - 08:31pm PT
MB, don't you feel inadequate, like me, in not being able to fathom how more laws will divest criminals and crankloons of their guns?
That has been asked and presented several times today with NO answer from the... "Crankloons".
Especially since there are currently over 1500 Federal, State and Local strict Gun Control Laws on the books, nationwide.
You'd think that the POTUS, being a Constitutional Scholar, would know and be well versed in that. AND... would ENFORCE them. Apparently NOT!
Instead, he goes on National TV and claims we need MORE Gun Control Laws.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Madbolter...let's go climbing sometime. I'll be at Shelf Rd for the AAC cragging classic giving a slide show. You should come down for the weekend...should be fun.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Circus for the masses. Distraction. But it works. Every time.
Look East and see what they don't want you to watch. The Putin puppet laying waste to our (and Israeli/Saudi) sponsored terrorists. Makes our puppet look bad.
The spice must flow. And Russia will not lose Tartus.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Madbolter...let's go climbing sometime. I'll be at Shelf Rd for the AAC cragging classic giving a slide show. You should come down for the weekend...should be fun.
I appreciate the offer, Bob, and I'd take you up on it for sure. Real life so encroaches now that I barely made it out for a few days of Facelift.
Also, I'd be embarrassed because I'm sure that even at our advanced ages you could climb circles around me. My 5.12 days are long, long behind me.
But maybe sometime we can find a way to meet and have dinner or something like that. Are you ever out Denver way?
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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For Cragman.
Doesn't make him a bad person though..
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philo
climber
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Why is it BOBda and some others here, that if anyone does NOT agree nor align themselves with your Liberal ideology, they are "angry", "bullies", "idiots", "loser", "pit bulls" etc etc etc....
Must be the Liberal NORMAL! A definite pattern of total intolerance, complete hate and a stern bias
Are you really so phuking full of shet that you can't see your own actions or behavior or how you yourself instigate the hate and spew you are crying about. Like Rong before you you bring in on yourself. You are pitiful.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Madbolter wrote: But maybe sometime we can find a way to meet and have dinner or something like that. Are you ever out Denver way?
That would be great, My daughter lives in Westminster so I do get back to that area, as to climbing I still can manage to get up 5.12's but since my heart deal other interests have taken over most of my free time and it is really nice just to get outside and relax.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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^^^
Nice!
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Degaine
climber
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Point of clarification regarding the Swiss: military service is required (for all able males). Since there are 3 to 6 weeks per year when everyone has to go to their unit to train, that is why they are trained to shoot.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Crankster, look me up and maybe we can get out or if need any more information for the area.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Point of clarification regarding the Swiss: military service is required (for all able males). Since there are 3 to 6 weeks per year when everyone has to go to their unit to train, that is why they are trained to shoot."
Their "Gun culture" is so different than the one here in America.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
climber
Evergreen, CO
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Reasonable steps:
1. Outlaw first person shooter video games.
2. Any video, movie or what have you with gun violence in it is rated Z. Must be 21 to buy or view. May not be played on FCC controlled airwaves.
3. Hospitalize and or jail the crazies. Empower judges to keep them incarcerated.
4. Hold parole boards fully accountable for the actions of those they release.
5. Empower personal injury lawsuits against arms merchants for the injuries committed with their weapons. Make their bloody eyes water, where it counts, right in their goddamn wallets.
6. Background checks on ALL weapons and munitions sales... ALL of them.
7. Arms merchants start treating their products as exclusive and they demand that prospective customers prove their worthiness to possess them (via training certs, live firearms range testing, background checks, etc.). No need to pass any laws, they can simply adopt a 'we're not selling guns to end up in the hands of criminals and if you want to buy one your sh#t better be clean' policies.
When I'm elected President, on my first day in office, I am going to pick up the phone and call
8675309yine.
DMT
It's nice that you can always count on DMT to come up with the most moronic post of the thread.
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Time for an upgrade!?
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Darn those liberals..
Oh wait...
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Monolith, try not to confuse things with facts.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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GLillegard, try not to confuse them with facts.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sad...you look at my first post...this is becoming the norm, 296 mass shooting so far this year and what ensues is well...crazy.
What is wrong with longer waiting periods, ban all assault weapons, stricter controls on ammunition buying and required gun safety classes with purchases?
I own a gun and would have no issues with the above, so why is it that the NRA is controlling this issue?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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296 mass shooting so far this year and what ensues is well.
Of which more than 200 were committed with totally ILLEGALLY acquired weapons.
All your bullshet hysteria recipes to remedy most of the "mass shootings" you refer to are a completely moot point. Fact.
Now, keep trying BOBda after watching the videos that are REALITY!.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Wake the FK up BOBda and the rest of you totally naive sheltered people here.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Just some thoughts..
Numbers of Americans Affected by Mental
Illness
One in four adults−approximately 61.5 million
Americans−experiences mental illness in a given
year. One in 17−about 13.6 million−live with a serious
mental illness such as schizophrenia, major depression
or bipolar disorder.1
Approximately 20 percent of youth ages 13 to 18
experience severe mental disorders in a given year. For
ages 8 to 15, the estimate is 13 percent.2
Approximately 1.1 percent of American adults—
about 2.4 million people—live with schizophrenia.
3,4
Approximately 2.6 percent of American adults−6.1
million people−live with bipolar disorder.
4,5
Approximately 6.7 percent of American adults−about
14.8 million people−live with major depression.4,6
Approximately 18.1 percent of American adults−about
42 million people−live with anxiety disorders, such as
panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD),
posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), generalized
anxiety disorder and phobias.4,7
About 9.2 million adults have co-occurring mental
health and addiction disorders.
8
Approximately 26 percent of homeless adults staying
in shelters live with serious mental illness and an
estimated 46 percent live with severe mental illness
and/or substance use disorders.
9
Approximately 20 percent of state prisoners and 21
percent of local jail prisoners have “a recent history” of
a mental health condition.
10
Seventy percent of youth in juvenile justice systems
have at least one mental health condition and at least
20 percent live with a severe mental illness.
11
Getting Mental Health Treatment in America
Approximately 60 percent of adults12, and almost one-half
of youth ages 8 to 15 with a mental illness received no
mental health services in the previous year. 13
African American and Hispanic Americans used
mental health services at about one-half the rate of
whites in the past year and Asian Americans at about
one-third the rate.14.
One-half of all chronic mental illness begins by the age
of 14; three-quarters by age 24.
15
Despite effective
treatment, there are long delays−sometimes
decades−between the first appearance of symptoms
and when people get help.
16
The Impact of Mental Illness in America
Serious mental illness costs America $193.2 billion
in lost earnings per year.17
Mood disorders such as depression are the third most
common cause of hospitalization in the U.S. for both
youth and adults ages 18 to 44.18
Individuals living with serious mental illness face an
increased risk of having chronic medical conditions.
19
Adults living with serious mental illness die on average
25 years earlier than other Americans, largely due to
treatable medical conditions.
20
Over 50 percent of students with a mental health
condition age 14 and older who are served by special
education drop out−the highest dropout rate of any
disability group.
21
Suicide is the tenth leading cause of death in the U.S.
(more common than homicide) and the third leading
cause of death for ages 15 to 24 years.22 More than 90
percent of those who die by suicide had one or more
mental disorders.
23
Although military members comprise less than 1
percent of the U.S. population24
, veterans represent
20 percent of suicides nationally. Each day, about 22
veterans die from suicide.25
I'm awake Chief, been up since 6AM but thanks for your concern.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Reality.... Reality... Reality... Wake the fk up BOBda.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
This is where most of the guns are. This is where most of them "Mass Shootings" occur almost DAILY!
But you and your POTUS keep avoiding the reality of it.
WHY??
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Glillegard:
That accidents and suicides are included is a valid stat. They are still firearms deaths .
And I'll remind you the Police memorial website includes suicides and accidents in their police death totals. These amount to more than half of police deaths. Do you want to discount those?
Your brief perusal of the FBI stats is also unconvincing. You touched on it in mentioning that California is the most populous state. Have you looked at other possible correlations?
Here are a couple suggestions for you to look at:
Males between 20-24 comprise 7% of the population and account for 22% of deaths by firearms. See what the mixes are in each state.
The national unemployment rate is around 14.1% for people between the ages of 16-24.
The Latino rate is 14.4%. The black unemployment rate for that group is 23.3%. Track the unemployment rates for 16-24 year olds by state and how the correlate to population and ethnic mix.
Track deaths as they are related to drug trade by state.
There might be other factors besides the strictness of gun laws that influence gun violence.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Suicides ARE NOT MASS SHOOTINGS bobda.
Stay focused.... stay on track with YOUR OWN OP!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Suicides ARE NOT MASS SHOOTINGS bobda.
Stay focused.... stay on track with YOUR OWN OP!"
Just a dose of reality.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Just a dose of reality.
Bullshet... if an individual is determined to the final deed, they don't NEED a gun.
Keep trying BobDA!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Suicides ARE NOT MASS SHOOTINGS bobda.
Stay focused.... stay on track with YOUR OWN OP!"
But forty percent of the mass shooters commit suicide...reality.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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But forty percent of the mass shooters commit suicide...reality.
Bullshet!!
Never heard of a Gangbanger "Shooter" committing suicide. Never.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Chief wrote: "Suicides ARE NOT MASS SHOOTINGS bobda.
And Blacks commit a very low percentage of mass shooting but you continue to show pictures and videos of black gangsters.
A CLOSER LOOK AT WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE
Although White individuals made up 69.2% of arrests for crimes in 20111, Black men still account for the majority of the prison population, more than six times as likely to be incarcerated than White men. Black men are also subjected, according to Lawrence Grossman, former President of CBS News and PBS, to media stereotyping where TV newscasts “disproportionately show African Americans under arrest, living in slums, on welfare, and in need of help from the community.” However, men of color do not represent the majority of school shooters or mass murderers.
NRA-1-articleLarge
Recent studies reveal that most school shooters are White males, with 97 percent being male and 79 percent White. Over the last three decades, 90 percent of high school or elementary school shootings were the result of White, often upper-middle class, perpetrators. These shootings are a direct reflection of White male privilege and the consequences that occur when groups like the NRA control influential conservative leaders.
 See more at: http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/06/19/mass-shooters-have-a-gender-and-a-race/#sthash.CyGcuTQK.dpuf
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Keep posting your propaganda BOBda....
I will just keep posting REALITY!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Add up ALL your school shootings BobDA and then I will throw in all the Gang Related Shootings nation wide that entail 4 or more casualties per incident.
Let's see what number is the highest.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Bullshet... if an individual is determined to the final deed, they don't NEED a gun.
No, they don't need a gun, but the success rate is a lot higher.
85% of attempted suicides by gun succeed. 3% of drug overdose methods succeed. Methods like hanging, poisoning, and carbon monoxide by car fall in the middle, but success rates are pretty low.
But any moron can shoot themselves, it's a pretty close range shot.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey BOBda... from LOckers article...
The U.S.A. is ranked 3rd out of 45 developed nations in regards to the incidence of homicides committed with a firearm. Mexico and Estonia are ranked first and second..
And you blabbed how Mexico is soooooooooooooooooo safe.
Niiiiiiiiice.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
BOBda... The media and your POTUS do NOT include Drive By's and all them other gang related shootings in that category.
WHY?? Drive by in Miami last weekend , 16 gunned down and 4 dead.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"And you blabbed how Mexico is soooooooooooooooooo safe.
Niiiiiiiiice.
About as safe as America, what's your point??
The U.S.A. is ranked 3rd out of 45 developed nations in regards to the incidence of homicides committed with a firearm. Mexico and Estonia are ranked first and second.
I still travel around America too. You are a real tool.
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2015 - 10:24am PT
Sad...you look at my first post...this is becoming the norm, 296 mass shooting so far this year and what ensues is well...crazy.
What is wrong with longer waiting periods, ban all assault weapons, stricter controls on ammunition buying and required gun safety classes with purchases?
I own a gun and would have no issues with the above, so why is it that the NRA is controlling this issue?
Seems like a valid question to ask.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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While many guns are taken off the street when people are arrested and any firearms in their possession are confiscated, a new study shows how easily arrestees believe they could illegally acquire another firearm. Supported by the National Institute of Justice and based on interviews with those recently arrested, the study acknowledges gun theft is common, with 13 percent of all arrestees interviewed admitting that they had stolen a gun. However a key finding is that "the illegal market is the most likely source" for these people to obtain a gun. "In fact, more than half the arrestees say it is easy to obtain guns illegally," the report states. Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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You crack me Chief... According to the FBI, I am safer in Mexico.
But keep on posting black gangsters to prove your point.
"According to FBI crime statistics, 4.8 Americans per 100,000 were murdered in the US in 2010. The US State Department reports that 120 Americans of the 5.7 million who visited Mexico last year were murdered, which is a rate of 2.1 of 100,000 visitors. Regardless of whether they were or weren’t connected to drug trafficking, which is often not clear, it’s less than half the US national rate.
2. Texans are twice as safe in Mexico, and three times safer than in Houston.
Looking at the numbers, it might be wise for Texans to ignore their Public Safety department’s advice against Mexico travel. Five per 100,000 Texans were homicide victims in 2010, per the FBI. Houston was worse, with 143 murders, or a rate of 6.8 – over three times the rate for Americans in Mexico.
Read more: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/blog/2012/04/30/are-americans-safer-in-mexico-than-at-home/#ixzz3nWvyziv6
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philo
climber
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Locker, not bullsh#t, bullshet.
There must be a difference coming from Shetlandia.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that all "illegal" guns started out as "legal" guns. Don't you think the easy access and proliferation of guns in America is a contributing factor to all these "illegal" guns you rue?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Shet on you locker. Shet!!!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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But keep on posting black gangsters to prove your point.
dude like everyday in L.A..
it's common to hear it on the radio another gang killing.. every day!
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philo
climber
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Did you have potty training issues "the" chief?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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And the murder rate in Japan was .3 and virtually none of those were done with firearms.
Quoting statistics is a losing game for gun advocates. When you go apples to apples....first world industrialized countries, are murder rates are MUCH higher and, more importantly, are murders using firearms are orders of magnitude higher. We should hold are heads in shame.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Shet on you Locker. :-)
G..."In 2011 there were 16,761 crimes in New Orleans including 200 murders, 163 forcible rapes and 14,013 property crimes. With a murder rate of 57.6 per 100,000, New Orleans had the highest murder rate of any U.S. city with a population of 100,000 or more in 2011 and ranked 21st in the world."
Hasn't stop people from going there. "When it comes to tourism, that seems at least partly true. In 2004, 10.1 million visitors spent a total of $4.9 billion in New Orleans, according to The New Orleans Tourism Marketing Corporation. That number plummeted to 3.7 million visitors, who spent $2.8 billion the year after the storm. By 2014, the number of visitors had bounced back to 9.5 million visitors and a record $6.8 billion. This year, unofficial projections call for a 3% rise in visitors.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Probably want to use some common sense visiting New Orleans, Washington DC or Chicago ?"
And Mexico. :-)
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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And the subject of the original post is WHAT again???...
Focus LOcker....
More of BOBda's Libtard "anti-gun" Bullshet .... which you suck on like a lollipop.
Sluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurp!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Get your licks in chief...this thread is going south soon.
it has become a Shet fest.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Get your licks in chief...this thread is going south soon.
What's a matter BOBda, the REALITY getting too much for you???
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Yo Chief.....gang wars in America are similar to ones in Central America, Brazil and Nigeria. They do not exist in ANY other country in the industrialized first world. Should we compare ourselves to El Savador, Colombia and Mexico or to Great Britain, Sweden and Germany.
Our crazy, out of control gun culture relegates us to third world status in murders per capita and murders by firearms per capita.
Another interesting corollary is that the more secular a country is the more civilized it seems to be.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"the Shet Master wrote: What's a matter BOBda, the REALITY getting too much for you???
No, just you.
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10b4me
Social climber
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Chief,
are you going to the fly fishing faire, in Bishop, in a couple of weeks?
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10b4me
Social climber
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not sure either.
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philo
climber
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Now PLEASE leave me alone so I can finish taking a SHET.
Locker remember to do your paperwork in triplicate.
And flush twice shet can be hard to get rid of.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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One of the most cynical, passive aggressive, bullshit jingoistic slogans ever was...."America, love it or leave it."
How about...."America, love it, nurture it, try always to improve it." And we can start by instituting sane gun control laws.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Chief, you are a piece of work.
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philo
climber
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The gang land porn you post is not effecting the majority of people here or abroad. It is gang land warfare. Quite similar to organized crime wars just less classy. But they have nothing to do with individual parasites going into public places and murdering as many innocent people as they can.
But you really seem to like it a lot.
I'm curious do you use gun oil to lube your rod while watching gang porn?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Someday Chief you will wake up and finally "see" that the world has has passed you by. It has, you know, you just don't see it yet.
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philo
climber
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He and his kind are relics of a failed paradigm of the past.
But that doesn't stop him from being the Trump of the Taco.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Chief, you are a piece of work.
Birds of a feather...
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c wilmot
climber
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As a child of the 80's I have always been confused why white baby boomers feel a need to demonize other white males as somehow being a problem while they feel they themselves are not.
What is it about this generation of boomer white males that makes you all so hypocritical? Is it the "feel good" attitude of being "above" other people? Is it a desperate attempt to stay relevant by being "open minded" while ignoring all issues of violence committed by non white peoples? Are you trying to impress young females?
Its confusing that the last generation of white males to see any privladge from being so are so anti white male
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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The incidents in Roseburg, Sandy Hook, Denver, Charleston etc were all tragedies.
BUT,
The Media, many here and throughout this nation and the current political leadership including the POTUS, totally ignore the realities that have been happening every day in most large inner city communities for over two decades, where "Mass Shootings" & Gun Violence occur on a regular daily basis.
Now that is truly pathetic.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yeah, yeah, yeah....it's impossible to count how many times you've reiterated that overly-simplistic, barely relevant narrative. Whether anyone agrees with you or not...howzabout moving on, and at least explore another facet of the issue? Or better yet, go to another thread topic altogether?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Chief, you are a piece of work.
Eddy wrote: Birds of a feather...
Sketch comes in for the ball cup and Score!!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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overly-simplistic, barely relevant narrative.
And THAT Apogee is why ALL this GUN Killing Shet by Whites, Blacks, Latino, Asians, will NEVER end...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yawn.
YawnYawnYawn.
Write something different. Please. I dare you. I double-dog dare you.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jim wrote: One of the most cynical, passive aggressive, bullshit jingoistic slogans ever was...."America, love it or leave it."
How about...."America, love it, nurture it, try always to improve it." And we can start by instituting sane gun control laws.
And this is what we should be striving for. Wouldn't it be nice if the murder rate in America was at or below other first countries?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Apogge..... "Birds of a Feather"
Credit: Edward T
And this is what we should be striving for.
HOW?
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philo
climber
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^^^ Amerikunt ^^^
Credit philo.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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philo
climber
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Dude you've been slinging your hateful vitriol for hundreds of posts.
Don't go whining like a little brat when the shet hits the fan and you get splattered.
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philo
climber
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I doubt very much if Chuffles could pass a mental/emotional competency test if it were required for gun ownership.
Most likely why he is adamantly opposed to any restrictions on gun access and advocates everyone should be armed.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
I doubt very much if Chuffles could pass a mental/emotional competency test if it were required for gun ownership.
RFLMAO... Now that is hilarious.
I got qualified (Had to pass one of them Test btw, Philo in order to do so) on one of these at the age of 17 and used effectively on Confirmed real "Hard Targets" at the ages 27 though 33.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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philo
climber
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"the" chief, that was then this is now.
That you were trained to shoot and can shoot doesn't mean that you might not be stable enough at this time. You come across as an incredibly angry, confrontational and vitriolic person. Not the kind of "good guy" I want to see exercising their open carry fantasies.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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If we as a nation, would devote more resources to solving the problems with poverty and broken families, especially in the Black community, perhaps that would go farther than any other single action to reduce gun violence?
Bingo! Great post.
I would like to see an end to Gun violent media in the form of games and movies, but recognize that is not realistic in the USA in terms of finance or personal freedoms.
Certainly would not be welcomed by these individuals that yell for more "Anti-Gun" legislation....
[Click to View YouTube Video]
HOLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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As a child of the 80's I have always been confused why white baby boomers feel a need to demonize other white males as somehow being a problem while they feel they themselves are not.
What is it about this generation of boomer white males that makes you all so hypocritical? Is it the "feel good" attitude of being "above" other people? Is it a desperate attempt to stay relevant by being "open minded" while ignoring all issues of violence committed by non white peoples? Are you trying to impress young females?
Its confusing that the last generation of white males to see any privladge from being so are so anti white male
Funny how so many self described liberals, who condemn narrow-minded intolerance, demonstrate the same undesirable traits.
Many of the posters who regularly criticize Chief's bad behavior, act the same way.
It's only bad when the other guys do it.
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philo
climber
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If we as a nation, would devote more resources to solving the problems with poverty and broken families, especially in the Black community, perhaps that would go farther than any other single action to reduce gun violenice
Bingo is right and I completely agree. But do you honestly think the right wing conservatives will have anything to do with promoting this? What with their incessant rhetoric about welfare queens and drug thugs etc. No it was the conservative right wing that closed the mental health institutions in the first place.
Maybe you should vote for Bernie.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"If we as a nation, would devote more resources to solving the problems with poverty and broken families, especially in the Black community, perhaps that would go farther than any other single action to reduce gun violence? "
I have been saying this for years, so why is there a war on the poor?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I have been saying this for years, so why is there a war on the poor?
AND what have either of you two, Philo and BOBda EVER done to do so other than participate on bullshet threads here on ST??
WHAT?
Maybe you should vote for Bernie.
There it is... have some one else do it. "You aint getting gonna get me involved."
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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AND what have either of you two, Philo and BOBda EVER done to do so other than participate on bullshet threads here on ST??
WHAT?
I can see where this is going, been there, done that with you.
Go back and find my responses.
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philo
climber
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Please spare us the need to produce resumes for your convenience.
Why not tell us what you've done other than to stock an arsenal against imagined threats.
I just don't understand why so many staunchly conservative white people are so terrified of life and their own shadows.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Go back and find my responses.
YOU don't have any other than having some one else namely the government to do it.
Cus by God BOBda, you have holes to drill, bolts to place and guidebooks to sell.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Chief, nice video of those hypocrites. I'm sure their first lame excuse
would be:
"But it's only a movie. Nobody takes that shizz seriously, do they?"
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philo
climber
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"the" chief you've been on the government dole for so long don't you think it rude to bite the teat that feeds you?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
"the" chief you've been on the government dole for so long don't you think it rude to bite the teat that feeds you?
Why not tell us what you've done other than to stock an arsenal against imagined threats.
HARD CORPS (Tulare County Youth Probation Dept Anti Gang Program Volunteer) Crew Leader : Visalia/ Fresno 99-2001
FIRST CALL (LACS Anti Gang Community Program Volunteer) Counselor/Crew Leader : Morningside/So Central LA 2003-2004
Mono/Inyo County At Risk Youth Mentorship Program Director/Counselor Volunteer (Local Native Gang Unit Asst): MML/Bishop 2004-2005
Yeah, I am angry.
At people such as yourself Philo that do NOTHING but get on the internet and whine. But NEVER do a thing other than that.
Just like the dude below
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"YOU don't have any other than having some one else namely the government to do it.
Cus by God BOBda, you have holes to drill, bolts to place and guidebooks to sell."
Yawn.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Chief wrote: Yeah, I am angry.
At people such as yourself that do NOTHING but get on the internet and whine. But NEVER do a thing other than that.
Do something about it other than attack people and whine on the internet.
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philo
climber
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Oregon sherif is an Oath Keeper opposed to background checks. What could possibly go wrong.
If you are a Republican, today is just another day, nothing to see here, move right along. To the sentient people who are sick and tired of mass murderers killing people then you will appreciate the fact that the Sheriff in Roseburg Oregon, John Hanlin has a record of being against any gun legislation.
Hanlin is what is called in conservative circles a, “Oath Keeper.” These are civil servants of the conservative persuasion that think that they are the ones that will have to resist the gun-grabber in chief, Obummer when he starts implementing Agenda 21 and Sharia law. Yeah, and he carries a gun and a badge.
The amount of horror that has happened in this country from mass murders like the one today in Roseburg is acceptable to the NRA members who are bathed in the blood of innocents. They often bray about the founders and tyranny and somehow are so unbelievably stupid that they think their pea-shooters can defend themselves against a government with 2700 tactical nuclear weapons on 10 minute standby and 11 aircraft carrier battle groups with enough weapons tonnage to destroy all ethereal life on this planet.
Such is the level of idiocy in this country that 2nd amendment bullshit artist think that any regulation means tyranny while they ignore the fact that after the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre that we as a society, banned automatic weapons entirely and alas, no tyranny. We banned assault rifles in the 90s and alas, no tyranny. No fact can permeate the recalcitrant and regimented thinkers that comprise the republican base that somehow find atrocities like Newtown palatable.
Until we expel the wholly owned Republican scum from our legislatures, we will continue to suffer these easily preventable atrocities.
You are a peach chuffie not only do you lnow the medical status and needs of all the women in your area but you seem to somehow know what I have or haven't done.
Assume much?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I did for over ten years BOBda.
I did.
I had to walk away from one of the programs due to two of the ex-banger "Blood" youths that I was working closely with getting "gunned down" on the corner of W74th and Dalton Ave at 8:45 PM on May 23, 2004 ten minutes after they left our weekly meeting.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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I will delete it.
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philo
climber
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Bob keep it around so folks can see the psycho show from Shetlandia. At least til the next senseless school shooting. Probably this week.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Actually NO LOcker...
I still take many of them young Natives out climbing and ffing on a reg basis.
BTW, that is my "fascination" with ... "gangs".
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"You are a peach chuffie not only do you lnow the medical status and needs of all the women in your area but you seem to somehow know what I have or haven't done.
Assume much?"
This really gets out of hand with him, posting photos of where you work, stalking, insults, never met the nut job and he thinks he know every aspect of my life.
Every thread he gets on turns in a sh#t fest, I'm no angel but this guy has serious issues.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
"You are a peach chuffie not only do you lnow the medical status and needs of all the women in your area but you seem to somehow know what I have or haven't done.
Assume much?"
This really gets out of hand with him, posting photos of where you work, stalking, insults, never met the nut job and he thinks he know every aspect of my life.
HUH???
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philo
climber
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It's OK Bob his psychiatrist tells him the voices in his head are right.
I wonder if his shrink is packin heat and wearing body armor all the time or just for sessions with Chuffles?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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NO LOcker....
But do do your part to continue being the pivot man. You are surely the best one these dudes have.
philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
It's OK Bob his psychiatrist tells him the voices in his head are right.
I wonder if his shrink is packin heat and wearing body armor all the time or just for sessions with Chuffles?
So Philo, that is the best ya got? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZbag.
.25/10
Total... FAIL!
But typical.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Beats a ....
NO CUPPER, LOcker. ;]
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
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philo
climber
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^^^ wing nut he is the President of the United States. A slightly more significant target than Joe the Plumber or chuff the blowhard. This is just like the gun nuts frothing about how hypocritical the Pope is to have an armed security detail. I seem to recall that Popes and Presidents have been the target of assassination attempts. The average American family should not have to face such threats.
Good lord you are such an Amerikkkunt
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oh, I see. His Kids are better than the rest.. nice excuse....got it Philo.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Philo...we are feeding the beast. Do not respond to him and he might just go away. Also, I heard from friends of mine in Bishop that he is a toothless lion/beast.
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philo
climber
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Do you even have children the chief?
Do you know everything about children and child rearing in a complex world like you know women's health care issues?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey, at least there are a few in Hollleeeeeeeeewoooooooooood that are Honest.
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philo
climber
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No one, I repeat NO ONE is taking guns away from legal owners.
But do you fear they may change the definition of who is legal?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Funny to see Cragmen and the Chief posting pics of people having guns to keep high profile targets safe against people with guns.
Is it hypocritical of the US to have nuclear weapons while pushing for reduction in nuclear weapons?
Should the US set an example and eliminate all it's nuclear weapons?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ INteresting.....
The Assault Weps Ban didn't stop this "Mass Shooting" that was not headline news..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Is it hypocritical of the US to have nuclear weapons while pushing for reduction in nuclear weapons.
Reduction? Iran has nuc's now?
What a fking looon you are Mono.... but again, thanks for the laugh,
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philo
climber
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^^^ Could that be because it occurred after Bush Jr let the assault weapons ban lapse?
Interesting.
^^^ commie, socialist, fascist, bad actor.
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c wilmot
climber
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what the US needs is more mental health. Sadly the only talk is of banning people who seek help from ever obtaining firearms regardless if they were only temporarily depressed. That will not help. Likely the "reform" that will take place is an increased cost to buy and possess firearms making it a luxury of the rich.
I dont even own a gun- does this make me a "gun nut"?
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philo
climber
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Well chuffie the Assault weapons ban was enacted 10/13/94 during the Clinton Administration and deliberately allowed to expire 10/13/2004. The time stamp on your video is 11/11/2011.
So yea you are full of shet.
Honestly man this stuff is on the internet check it out sometime.
And how do you know where this moron got his gun? The same way you know the menstral cycles of all the local ladies? Or is it because he isn't white it must be an illegal gun?
You know when the fat assed white losers open carry into Kroger and Hobby Lobby it's impossible to tell which guns are legal.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Bob D'A started this thread, and the inane Boehner thread, then he gets his panties all up in a bunch when a few people don't agree with every one of his crazy ideas. Pathetic. Just delete the thread already.
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philo
climber
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Hey spect reman go look at exactly who got their depends in a twist. It sure as hell wasn't Bob.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Oh yes, you're so right Philo, Bob is the pure voice of civility.
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philo
climber
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No I didn't say that. But like with Rona it didn't start with the people who didn't agree with his point of view it started with Rona. the chief came out swinging and blasting all barrels. He was foul and obnoxious from the very start. He deserve any shet tossed at him. You don't have to like or appreciate it but don't cry foul without acknowledging the source of the foulness.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Philo wrote
"It's OK Bob his psychiatrist tells him the voices in his head are right.
I wonder if his shrink is packin heat and wearing body armor all the time or just for sessions with Chuffles?"
No Philo, You and Bob aren't attacking other people at all.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
the chief came out swinging and blasting all barrels. He was foul and obnoxious from the very start
RFLMAO as usual with you Philo. Priceless.
Oh, soooo FOUL and OBNOXIOUS....
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Unlike YOU LOcker,
I could give a flying ratsass what others may think of me or my opinion.
Unlike YOU, I do not have a commodity/service at stake on this site. Thus I do not need to suck their azzes...
Hint!
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philo
climber
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No Philo, You and Bob aren't attacking other people at all
I didn't say Bob, I and others aren't being insulting. I'm saying that if you'd ever paid attention you'd seen it was deserved.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Spectreman "Bob D'A started this thread, and the inane Boehner thread, then he gets his panties all up in a bunch when a few people don't agree with every one of his crazy ideas. Pathetic. Just delete the thread already."
OK who ever you are.
My first post on the Boehner Thread: Good riddance, the republican led congress has basically done nothing in four years for the American people.
Wow...really confrontation and what a crazy idea.
My first post on this thread: Sadly this is the new norm.
Wow...really confrontation and wow another crazy idea.
Funny, not once have you jump on Chief and his behavior.
And just who are you?
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philo
climber
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Why don't you fuking listen to your therapist and stop posting on this forum???...
And deprive his shrink from the only reliable source of what he is really thinking?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
the chief came out swinging and blasting all barrels. He was foul and obnoxious from the very start
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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philo
climber
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Wrong again wing nut. Locker will say what he will even with his business interest as will I. We are not anonymous cowards like spectreman or sociopaths like you.
We don't have to be embarrassed by what we've said because its not that batshet crazy crap you say.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
Spectreman "Bob D'A started this thread, and the inane Boehner thread, then he gets his panties all up in a bunch when a few people don't agree with every one of his crazy ideas. Pathetic. Just delete the thread already."
OK who ever you are.
My first post on the Boehner Thread: Good riddance, the republican led congress has basically done nothing in four years for the American people.
Wow...really confrontation and what a crazy idea.
My first post on this thread: Sadly this is the new norm.
Wow...really confrontation and wow another crazy idea.
Funny, not once have you jump on Chief and his behavior.
And just who are you?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Work on it LOcker..... you're educated.
Figure it out.
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philo
climber
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What in the f*#kinghell happened to create you the chief?
Was it prolonged exposure to Agent Orange or regrets for baby killing?
Do the flashback nightmares keep you up at night?
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philo
climber
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That would explain his anal retentive fecal impactiongiving him such a shetty view of the world.
Common man come out of the closet it's the 21st century we won't judge you.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
What in the f*#kinghell happened to create you the chief?
Was it prolonged exposure to Agent Orange or regrets for baby killing?
philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
That would explain his anal retentive fecal impactiongiving him such a shetty view of the world.
Common man come out of the closet it's the 21st century we won't judge you.
philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
Why don't you fuking listen to your therapist and stop posting on this forum???...
And deprive his shrink from the only reliable source of what he is really thinking?
philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 03:36pm PT
Wrong again wing nut. Locker will say what he will even with his business interest as will I. We are not anonymous cowards like spectreman or sociopaths like you.
We don't have to be embarrassed by what we've said because its not that batshet crazy crap you say.
locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 3, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
"What in the f*#kinghell happened to create you the chief?"...
Dude's a closet "Mo" and it played hell on him all those years taking showers with other men...
philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
the chief came.... He was foul and obnoxious from the very start
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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philo
climber
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Yep that's me to a tee, spoiled sheltered libtard loon.
I have to laugh at the tiny tough guy.
Can you even remember what you said chuffles?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Holy shet! I poke my head back in after a brief absence to find over 100 new posts and that the whole thing totally went to shet! I'm outty.
Before I go....
My daughter lives in Westminster so I do get back to that area
I'm in Westminster, also, Bob. Drop me a PM when you're gonna be around. I'd enjoy a meal with you!
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Rick Poedtke wrote: Of which more than 200 were committed with totally ILLEGALLY acquired weapons.
Which is why we need to confiscate and destroy all guns in this country. Obviously, as a society we are too immature to handle them.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Which is why we need to confiscate and destroy all guns in this country. Obviously, as a society we are too immature to handle them.
Only progs and criminals.
The progs want to turn the whole nation into a "gun free" zone.
The criminals and the crazies would prefer that.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Oct 3, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
Which is why we need to confiscate and destroy all guns in this country
And you Gary Schenk call Trump, a ....
"Come on Homies... let's turn in our guns for Gary Schenk!"
Yaeh Homboys....weee's right behind ya Brah!
Make sure all dem booooooolets are out and da guns are, safe, before we turn them in.. Don't want any Brah's hurt or shot.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 3, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
"Rick (Papa, Oscar, Echo, Delta, Tango, Kilo, Echo) Poedtke wrote:"
...
"Come on Homies... let's turn in our guns for Gary Schenk!"...
~~~ Rick (Papa, Oscar, Echo, Delta, Tango, Kilo, Echo) Poedtke
Niiiiiiiice.
Thanks for the credits, LOcker. It helps my advertisement. LOTs of Conserves and NON-Buttsnorklers that lurk here.
Know what I mean...
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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"Come on Homies... let's turn in our guns for Gary Schenk!"
I doubt that will work. The guns will have to be forcibly confiscated. Don't you think?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Oct 3, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
I doubt that will work. The guns will have to be forcibly confiscated. Don't you think?
ANd, How to do propose doing that, Gary?
Edit...
Hey, I know, just like your socialist buddies back in the late 30's and early 40's did..
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Is it the new IN place to be or something???
I'm telling you, it's the shet.
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philo
climber
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It could be accomplished in 48 hours and you wouldn't have a thing to say about it.
The fact that it hasn't happened says a lot about your delusional paranoias.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Apparently, Poedtke, you are confused as to the difference between socialists and Nazis, but nothing there's nothing new about you being confused by facts and history.
Since you gun guys don't want to give even the tiniest inch in any attempt to stop mass murder, it looks like total confiscation is the only answer.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
It could be accomplished in 48 hours and you wouldn't have a thing to say about it.
And... Who the fk is going to do it... Philo?
Oh, I know... Individuals like this Man and his crew. Got it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
BTW Philo, that Man was re-elected three times with a 79% majority. 86% of those votes were from the Black Community of Milwaukee.
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philo
climber
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Oct 3, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
It could be accomplished in 48 hours and you wouldn't have a thing to say about it.
And... Who the fk is going to do it... Philo?
You were in the military and have to ask that?
Don't you realize they have already gamed the scenario.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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After a mentally disabled young man was shot at a carwash this summer because he was wearing red shoes, his mother fingered the suspects and held a news conference. A man considered a local hero — even by some young gang members — denounced violence.
Not long afterward, his car was riddled with bullets as he drove down a neighborhood street in the middle of the day. It took three weeks for his family to raise enough money to bury him.
http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-1003-banks-lapd-gang-shootings-20151003-column.html
How are gun laws or disarming the law abiding going to stop this?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
Oct 3, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
It could be accomplished in 48 hours and you wouldn't have a thing to say about it.
Don't you realize they have already gamed the scenario.
"Who" is They??
I guarantee ya, the "they' you dream of WILL NEVER do such a thing. Fact!
WHY.. cus far toooooooooooo many of "They's" are .... US!
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philo
climber
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Uh huh sure.
Dude your daze in the military were in the dark ages you are out of touch with the 21st century. Your still all into projectile weaponry. I have to laugh.
The weapons you are so enamoured with are passé and effective only for murdering innocent people in gun rampages.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Locker, any place I'm at is the "in" place.
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philo
climber
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Do you honestly think you and a bunch of Oaf Creepers can stand off a modern military machine with your pathetic surrogate penises.
Besides in the scenario I mentioned they wouldn't even have to fire a shot.
Just wake up in the morning and wonder where your weenie weapons went.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 3, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
Besides in the scenario I mentioned they wouldn't even have to fire a shot.
Just wake up in the morning and wonder where your weenie weapons went.
OH SHet... I forgot.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
PoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooFF! Guns all gone.
PHIIIIIIIIIIIILO... put down the fking AJAX... NOOOOO!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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philo
climber
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LRAD, RADE, PEP, ELF...
Do you think the wonks at DARPA give a shet about you and your buddies?
Can you hear me now?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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OK Philllllllllllllooooo........
I think the dogshet skunk CO free weed is getting way too much for you.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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philo
climber
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Hey chuffes look at what your hero Putin uses.
Do you admire his totalitarian sternness or just like looking at him riding bareback on his mighty steed?
Main article: Moscow theater hostage crisis
Recently, a new study found evidence supporting the claim that during the 2002 Moscow theater hostage crisis, the Russian military made use of an aerosol form of carfentanil and another similar drug, remifentanil, to subdue Chechen hostage takers.[4][5] Its short action, easy reversibility and therapeutic index (10,600 vs. 300 for fentanyl) would make it a potential agent for this purpose. Riches, et al., found evidence from liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry analysis of extracts of clothing from two British survivors, and urine from a third survivor, that the aerosol comprised a mixture of the two anaesthetics, the exact proportions of which the study was unable to verify. Previously, Wax et al. had surmised from the available evidence that the Moscow emergency services had not been informed of the use of the agent, but were instructed to bring opioid antagonists. Because of the lack of information provided, the emergency workers did not bring adequate supplies of naloxone (opioid inverse agonist) or naltrexone (opioid antagonist) to prevent complications in many of the victims and there were subsequently over 125 confirmed deaths from both respiratory failure and aerosol inhalation during the incident. Assuming that carfentanil and remifentanil were the only active constituents (which has not been verified by the Russian military), the primary acute toxic effect to the theatre victims would have been opioid-induced apnea; in this case mechanical ventilation and/or treatment with opioid antagonists would have been life-saving for many or all victims.
And then there are always
Sonic weapons
A Long-Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) in use on the USS Blue Ridge
Sonic and ultrasonic weapons (USW) are weapons of various types that use sound to injure, incapacitate, or kill an opponent. Some sonic weapons are currently in limited use or in research and development by military and police forces. Others exist only in the realm of science fiction. Some of these weapons have been described as sonic bullets, sonic grenades, sonic mines, or sonic cannons. Some make a focused beam of sound or ultrasound; some make an area field of sound.
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philo
climber
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One reason the Federal Government has made no effort to remove traditional projectile weaponry from the hands of the gun crazed insurrectionists is that ultimately if the shet hits the fan those toys are completely ineffectual against what is out there and you don't want to tip your hand on a world stage if you don't have to.
But some of you probably think Cliven Bundy was an all American patriotic hero that put the fear of God and "the negro" into the man.
I really have to laugh.
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philo
climber
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Whasamatta chuff, shet got yer bung?
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philo
climber
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No Duckie, Crankster is one of the more cogent posters on the politurd threads.
But your creepy chubby for him needs closer scrutiny. Seriously why does he get so up your beak?
And shuruff Hanlin has blood on his incompetent hands.
Side bar ad. I thought we were not supposed to support boobs on this site?
Oh and just so the chuff doesn't feel left out.
Once again someone is trying to cover their tracks by back deleting.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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And shuruff Hanlin has blood on his incompetent hands.
And President Obama has 20 Children/6 Teachers in CT, 12 Movie goers in Co and 9 Church goers in SC "Blood" on His "Do Nothing but talk tons of shet" hands.
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philo
climber
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And what would you have had Obama do the chief?
Or what would you approve of him doing now? In your mind can he do anything correctly?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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philo
climber
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^^^. Precisely.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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The Republican vagina is always good as well.......LOL
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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OK Wilber... like this and the 7.62 FMJ "Machine Gun" I am carrying and about to power off 100 rounds down range?
Roger that ....
TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FKING FUNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Ah, the logic circle tightens down on the ever bloviating character posting as "The Chief"...
... a veritable farce of nature this rascal is painting himself into a metaphorical corner; and we await the detonation!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So what's an 'assault' rifle?* I could assault you with a 22 and it would hurt, badly.
And it would happen just as quickly as it would with what the media thinks an 'assault' rifle is,
something that looks like an AK. But, trust me, looks can't kill. OK, you're free to go back
to chasing your tails.
* let's agree that we're limited to a 10 round mag.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey Reilly,
How about a 100 round belt of 7.62 FMJ?
250 round belt of the same gets a tad bit cumbersome.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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How about a 100 round belt?
You back on the hard stuff?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Now, Chief, don't tease the chained up Chihuahuas! It's mean!
Let's put the ball in their court and pretend we live in Khumbaya where 10 round mags are
the max. BTW, how fast can you swap mags, 2 seconds? Three?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Eastman and Reilly:
The days of 100-250 rounds of 7.62 FMJ are behind me. These days it's just nine rounds of this stuff....
You gotta see the hole it makes at around 200 yds.
EDIT:
BTW, how fast can you swap mags, 2 seconds? Three?
When they are set up like this, which was SOP for us, in about a second or less....
Usually carried ten to fifteen of these giving us each 500-750 rounds of .223
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Can we re-classify that as "Whack Master"???
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Which one is you?
If everyone in the U.S. was armed like this then there would be a lot less killing going on.
Which company makes the most ammo? So's I will know not to short it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Chief, remind me to tell you about my trip to Happy Canada where damn near everybody has
plenty of guns but they don't seem to enjoy killing each other. My shoulder is still sore from
that Win 405!!!!!! Holy rotater cuff, batman!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Guess.... Z
Hint.. It's back way back when I had, hair, and it blew freely in the... wind.
EDIT: Second Phase at SC Island week 14
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Yo, da Chief, what's left for dinner after you punch one of those through a mullie?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Headshot Eastman... Brings em down instantly. No tracking down required. Just like I was taught at the best "sniper" school in the SD area.
I aint no antler put it over my fire place collector like most wanna-be once a year gotta get some meat boys.
Win 405!!!!!!
BOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Ouch!
What grain Reilly? 300?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I don't know why governmental employees like Hanlin or the wanker who won't issue marriage licenses to gay couples is an issue.
This isn't complicated. They are public servants, and their job is to serve public interest, according to current laws and statutes.
If (mighty big IF) gun laws change such that Hanlin doesn't like them?
FIRE HIS ASS.
Same goes for wanker who feels that issuing licenses is against her religious beliefs.
First of all, though, make clear that separation of church and state is a principle this country was established upon...
THEN FIRE HER ASS.
Not complicated at all. Easy-peasy.
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philo
climber
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If everyone in the U.S. was armed like this then there would be a lot less killing going on.
Please explain how you figure that? We already have more guns than people and more gun violence of any country not in a war zone.
Exactly how would arming everyone - blind, paralyzed and lunatic fringe- make us safer?
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philo
climber
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They do it every time ad nauseum. I predicted it on page 1.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Please explain how you figure that?
Strictly a guess on my part. If everyone was packin' that much artillary, I figure they would be much less likely to use it.
Sort of everyman's mutual deterrence.
After the U.S. became the only country to use nuclear weapons everybody "manned (armed) up" and nobody ever did use theirs, nor did the U.S. It did cost a lot though.
A good stock picker would know which companies to invest in, eh?
Might want to also revisit this arena when considering whether Iran, Columbia, Iceland, and Mississippi should or should not have nuclear weapons.
High Five:
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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What's ironic is that typically, Republicans aren't too keen on public servants in general...and if one was to be fired for some reason...esp. if that reason was due to a conflict in their beliefs...they'd say 'FIRE HIS ASS', and good riddance.
But in these cases...these public servants are 'making a principled stand' that just happens to coincide with Republican values...and they will hold them up as heroes. F*#king hypocritical Republicans...as usual.
FIRE HANLIN'S ASS, and don't waste any more time on it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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philo
climber
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A society in which everyone was packing heat to protect themselves from everyone else does not deserve to call itself civilized.
If any of you seriously believe we would be safer with everyone armed you are a lunatic living in an Ammosexuals wet dream and should not be allowed to legally own guns.
Why do you think the sherrifs in the old west had everyone turn there guns in when coming into town.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Hey, Philo, bless you , my son. Now, in yer infinite wisdom explain why I'm a "gun nut".
Be sure to address my voting for Obaba twice, my support of universal health care, my support
of meaningful gun laws, and, most importantly, how a 10 round mag is soooo much safer
than a 15 round mag, given that it takes 2-3 seconds, at most, to swap mags. Oh, and do
opine on why the Canuckians aren't killing each other even though they've PLENTY of guns.
And you probably missed my post where I explained that the Canuckian Army sold 5000
FULLY AUTO M-16's to the general public yet NONE have been used nefariously. Maybe it
isn't the guns?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"....my support
of meaningful gun laws..."
Genuinely curious: examples, please?
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philo
climber
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Saying we'd be safer if we were all armed sounds pretty gun nutty to me.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Why do you think the sherrifs in the old west had everyone turn there guns in when coming into town.
Because they could? Why did the big K. pull his stuff outa Cuba?
I will grant, however, that it is not feasible to have everybody armed to the teeth walking around in the U.S.
Interesting how concepts sometimes don't scale down, eh?
Interesting II. Why is it that nobody talks about North Korea's nukes in the same breath as Iran's?
Why doesn't Isreal even admit to having them?
Does anyone wonder about the progress some of the terrorist groups are making towards a small (wouldn't want to call it tactical) nuclear device?
Any truth to the rumor that China is working on a delivery system to apply nukes in "outer" space? And the U.S. isn't?
Ooops.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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*
I have said this before...I was raised around guns.
My dad had a hand gun and a couple rifles for hunting, my brothers the same.
I rarely saw them..No NRA, , no collecting, no bragging, just something they own like a hammer, nails & saw.
Our nation does have a heart problem when people get all riled up about gay marriage and dismiss mass murders.. then brag about guns..
9 souls were lost..truly heartbreaking, something needs to change.... sincere condolences to the families..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Our nation does have a heart problem when people get all riled up about gay marriage and dismiss mass murders.. then brag about guns.."
Hoo-boy...that about nails it.
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philo
climber
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Nita that was one of the best posts to this thread.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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You can fool the cognitive disabled all the time.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Why aren't we raving about the real question which is what is making so many young American men hateful and angry to the point of carnage?
When we answer this question - guns will become irrelevant.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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jonnyrig
climber
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http://ohioccw.org/200805303991/nevada-ccw-holder-stops-mass-shooting.html
Nevada CCW Holder Stops Mass Shooting
Daniel White Published Date
On May 25, the Sunday before Memorial Day, police were called to Players Bar and Grill located in Winnemucca, Nevada on a report of multiple shots fired. By the time they arrived, the incident was over.
Reports indicated that the shooter entered the bar and began firing at patrons reportedly due to an ongoing family dispute. At least two men were killed during the initial volley, after which the shooter stopped to reload. After he began shooting again, another bar patron, who had a ccw licence, drew his concealed handgun and killed the shooter
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jonnyrig
climber
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http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/California-weighs-banning-concealed-handguns-on/HtKgoRnAIEKRsOOkgJ1SOQ.cspx
California weighs banning concealed handguns on campuses
Print Story Published: 6:07 pm Share Updated: 7:01 pm
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California is once again considering a move to tighten its restrictions on guns with a ban on the concealed carry of handguns at colleges and schools.
The Sacramento Bee reports Saturday ( http://bit.ly/1QR5FB0); Gov. Jerry Brown is considering the legislation as the nation mourns the school shooting in Roseburg, Oregon that left 10 people dead, including the gunman.
Current California law makes it illegal to possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school or on a college campus without permission from administrators. But it includes exemptions for retired law enforcement officers and those with concealed carry permits.
The bill approved by lawmakers in early September would expand the prohibition of guns on school and college grounds to include weapons allowed with concealed carry permits.
Brown has until Oct. 11 to act
Wait... you mean to tell me one of the most restrictive states in the nation regarding firearms currently allows CCW holders to carry on campus?!?! And none of them have committed a mass murder on campus?!?!?!?
Whoa...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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No mass shootings ... civilians ...
Well, some might argue this is due to there not being enough adequately armed civilians, no?
If one takes the time to look at history and anthropology, one would discover that killing is a Russian as apple pie.
Certainly it's a lot easier to kill more people quickly than it used to be, but the weapons are not really the main problem.
There are many other ways to kill a whole bunch of folks (probably without having to get oneself killed in the process).
Why folks choose guns is an open question. I haven't seen any good answers here.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I enjoyed taking a day off from this horrible thread today.
Heidi & I went for a hike, then I mowed the lawn & slightly before and after dinner, I am watching college football.
Not to brag, but
I'm just reporting the college football news from a few weeks back, and tonight.
At the end of the first-half, #1 Ohio State vs Hawaii 14 to 0.
At the end of the first-half, #19 Wisconsin vs Hawaii 14 to 0
At the end of the first-half, unranked Boise State vs Hawaii 49 to 0.
Just saying.
Spew on dooooodes.
(and have a wonderful or hellish evening, depending on what your current state of mind or mindlessness is.)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Looks like Hawaii's quest for the National Championship is just about over.
Agree with you about this thread....just a bunch of knuckleheads throwing furniture at each other.
Morning here in Olympos.....a wee bit of beach time and sport climbing after breakfast. Nice place we are staying in, but the hotel walls are thin......couple in the next room, well.....they have some endurance.
You and Heidi would love Turkey!!!
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c wilmot
climber
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First murder attempt
Andrew Patti, a resident of Vershire, Vermont (a town a few miles east of Chelsea, Vermont), says that Tulloch and Parker attempted to murder him and his family in the summer of 2000. Patti's tale appeared in the 2003 book Judgment Ridge: The True Story Behind the Dartmouth Murders by Mitchell Zuckoff, and in 2004 Patti shared his story in more detail with Massad Ayoob of American Handgunner magazine.
Patti states that on July 17, 2000, Tulloch and Parker went to Patti's remote house, armed with hunting knives, intending to murder the inhabitants and to steal their belongings. Near the house, they dug makeshift graves for their intended victims. Then late at night, Tulloch knocked on the door while Parker waited off to the side in the bushes intending to ambush the homeowner when he opened it.
Inside, the 47-year-old Patti, at home with his 11-year-old son, was alerted to the teens' presence by the sounds of his dog barking. Suspicious of the knock on his door at such a late hour, he answered the knock by going to the door and pulling back the window blinds without opening it. Behind his back he held a Glock pistol at the ready.
Claiming to be a stranded motorist, Tulloch asked to enter the house, but Patti refused. After receiving several more requests for entry, Patti became concerned enough to hold up his Glock where Tulloch could see it. Then Patti closed the blinds on the door and went back to call the police. When he got to the phone, he discovered that the line was dead. But when he returned to the door, Tulloch and Parker had left the house. They did not return.
Tulloch and Parker did not attempt to strike again for another six months. During that time they purchased SOG SEAL 2000 knives over the Internet.[1]
The murders
Tulloch and Parker went to the Zantop residence on the morning of January 27, 2001. Posing as students doing research for a school survey, their modus operandi was to take the occupants by surprise, threaten them into revealing their PINs, rob and kill them. Being one who often welcomed young people into his home, Half allowed them inside while Susanne prepared a dish for a dinner she was hosting at home that evening. According to his confession, Parker admitted that Zantop was "an alright guy" and that they didn't need to kill him. Tulloch, on the other hand, was thinking the exact opposite, especially when the professor of earth science told him that he had to come more prepared. Tulloch believed that his comments, however well-intentioned, were a slap in the face. While Half turned away to look for a phone number, Tulloch took his SOG knife and repeatedly stabbed Half in the chest and face, cutting his own leg accidentally in the process. Susanne tried to stop him, but Parker stabbed her at Tulloch's orders. Tulloch stabbed her in the head and body. Covered in blood, they left with $340 from Half's wallet, but they forgot to take their knife sheaths from the scene. During interviews with investigators, Parker confessed that he was surprised '"that our plan didn't work".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Dartmouth_College_murders
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jonnyrig
climber
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Well, that would take a miracle...
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philo
climber
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^^^ What a clueless phuk.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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PotatoHead
Trad climber
Nunya,ID
Oct 3, 2015 - 11:34pm PT
Hey b0B... What are your solutions for fixing the world....You claim to know it all. Keep it short and sweet..no?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
philo
climber
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:50am PT
^^^ What a clueless phuk.
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2015 - 06:24am PT
What ever you say Mike from Idaho. ...funny little man you are.
Hey POTATOHEAD!!!!
You're taking all the well thought out HATE and exuberant extreme crankalooon NAME calling away from me.
WTF????
BTW:
Solutions:
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"There's nothing like sports entertainment to put a twinkle in anyone's eye !"
FAKT!
Dodgers over the Padres, 2-1 last night....
Go Dodger Blue!!
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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, how a 10 round mag is soooo much safer
than a 15 round mag, given that it takes 2-3 seconds, at most, to swap mags.
Oh yes, everyone is the fastest, laser focused cowboy in town during a gun fight.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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"There's nothing like sports entertainment to put a twinkle in anyone's eye !"
Damn Right! Now we're talking....
Get em trained up way early, arm em and issue is solved!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nice post Moose. Given the nature of the tragedy and the age of the victims....The Chief's post above yours was I'll timed and cynical to say the least. They don't call them gun NUTS for nothing.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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So says the man (Donini) who is still very active with his old alma mata of trained and very well versed...KILLER'S!
Too funny.... thanks Jim.
Edit:
How do you do it Jim.... play both sides of the fence?
Truly fascinating to say the least.
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philo
climber
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Oct 4, 2015 - 09:20am PT
So says the man (Donini) who is still very active with his old alma mata of trained and very well versed...KILLER'S!
And you know this how? The same way you know all about the vaginal needs of all your local ladies?
Well how about this?
I take a bit of an issue with the specious, tired and hackneyed "guns don't kill, people do" or " if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have them" tropes. Last time I checked fatalities in automobiles are called "car" accidents. If a bomb goes off in a shopping mall it's called a bombing not a peopling. Let's get it straight, guns kill. Yes it takes a sociopathic parasite to pull the trigger but there is a very specific reason they chose a gun to use. We don't tell the Japanese that Atomic bombs don't kill people, people do,
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c wilmot
climber
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Old white guys insisting its those 'other' white guys who are the REAL problem....
Onward white knights-
LOL
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Mike from Idaho wrote: Hey b0B...it's me(Mike) from "bum-f*#k nowhere white bread Idaho". I'd normally never try to give advice to a megalomaniac like you. So funny....you are. What did you do today(10/3/15) besides put up 20+ incoherent posts on ST??
Funny Mikey, your buddy the Chief posted just over 60 that same day, not a peep out of you to him.
Two peas in a pod.
One of the many things I did yesterday.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 4, 2015 - 09:26am PT
And you know this how?
Hey Philo.... DAH! Do I need to post the thread in which Jim was patting himself on the back for getting this award for, doing so.
Training his "Head Hunter/Snper Killer Team" Bros...
So Jim, SERIOUSLY, how do you do it. You know, show the Badasses above how to "climb" to get to optimum pos's in order to utilize their Barret .50 cal's and .308's in order to do this very effectively with all the disdain that you display here for... "Guns"?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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YUP!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And more "School/Mass Shootings" have occurred in this nation since 2009 than at any other time.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Barrack Obama, 44th President of the United States
Jan 20, 2009 to Present
OH!! My bad... it's Bush's fault.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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OH!! My bad... it's Bush's fault. +1 chief
lost in LIBERLAND!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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How cool!!!...
I just found this photo of Chief Little Dick and his minion Pyrocopter...
Locker insert glue gun into ur nose... lost in liberland
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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You got it right Chief....I served in the US Army Special Forces and I'm proud of it. I just think that certain weapons belong with the Armed Forces and not in the hands of ordinary, untrained citizens who have no practical need for them.
I'm not against hunting, I've shot a few Quail and Pheasants in my time but you don't need assault weapons for that.
The rest of the industrialized world has implemented sane laws and have murder by firearm rates orders of magnitude below ours.
The original intention of the Second Amendment to have an armed citizenry capable of overthrowing a corrupt government has absolutely no relevance in today's world.....things do change in 226 years.....well regulated militias won't cut the mustard in today's world. But militias today are anything but well regulated.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Hey LOCker...
I was warned to watch you, that you have periodic "thievery" tendency's and do NOT have the capacity to be, "original".
I thought they were full of shet when them folks warned me way back when.
But, YOU just proved them right. Looks like I have to email them and, apologize.
Damn.....
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2015 - 11:39am PT
well regulated militias won't cut the mustard in today's world.
Really Jim?
These "well regulated militia" dudes seem to be doing a pretty good job at creating and achieving chaotic destruction throughout the world...
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philo
climber
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From Salon.
THURSDAY, JUN 18, 2015 05:00 PM MDT
It’s not about mental illness: The big lie that always follows mass shootings by white males
Blaming "mental illness" is a cop-out -- and one that lets us avoid talking about race, guns, hatred and terrorism
ARTHUR CHU
I get really really tired of hearing the phrase “mental illness” thrown around as a way to avoid saying other terms like “toxic masculinity,” “white supremacy,” “misogyny” or “racism.”
We barely know anything about the suspect in the Charleston, South Carolina, atrocity. We certainly don’t have testimony from a mental health professional responsible for his care that he suffered from any specific mental illness, or that he suffered from a mental illness at all.
We do have statistics showing that the vast majority of people who commit acts of violence do not have a diagnosis of mental illness and, conversely, people who have mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.
We know that the stigma of people who suffer from mental illness as scary, dangerous potential murderers hurts people every single day — it costs people relationships and jobs, it scares people away from seeking help who need it, it brings shame and fear down on the heads of people who already have it bad enough.
But the media insists on trotting out “mental illness” and blaring out that phrase nonstop in the wake of any mass killing. I had to grit my teeth every time I personally debated someone defaulting to the mindless mantra of “The real issue is mental illness” over the Isla Vista shootings.
“The real issue is mental illness” is a goddamn cop-out. I almost never hear it from actual mental health professionals, or advocates working in the mental health sphere, or anyone who actually has any kind of informed opinion on mental health or serious policy proposals for how to improve our treatment of the mentally ill in this country.
What I hear from people who bleat on about “The real issue is mental illness,” when pressed for specific suggestions on how to deal with said “real issue,” is terrifying nonsense designed to throw the mentally ill under the bus. Elliot Rodger’s parents should’ve been able to force risperidone down his throat. Seung-Hui Cho should’ve been forcibly institutionalized. Anyone with a mental illness diagnosis should surrender all of their constitutional rights, right now, rather than at all compromise the right to bear arms of self-declared sane people.
What’s interesting is to watch who the mentally ill people are being thrown under the bus to defend. In the wake of Sandy Hook, the NRA tells us that creating a national registry of firearms owners would be giving the government dangerously unchecked tyrannical power, but a national registry of the mentally ill would not — even though a “sane” person holding a gun is intrinsically more dangerous than a “crazy” person, no matter how crazy, without a gun.
We’ve successfully created a world so topsy-turvy that seeking medical help for depression or anxiety is apparently stronger evidence of violent tendencies than going out and purchasing a weapon whose only purpose is committing acts of violence. We’ve got a narrative going where doing the former is something we’re OK with stigmatizing but not the latter. God bless America.
What’s also interesting is the way “The real issue is mental illness” is deployed against mass murderers the way it’s deployed in general — as a way to discredit their own words. When you call someone “mentally ill” in this culture it’s a way to admonish people not to listen to them, to ignore anything they say about their own actions and motivations, to give yourself the authority to say you know them better than they know themselves.
This is cruel, ignorant bullshit when it’s used to discredit people who are the victims of crimes. It is, in fact, one major factor behind the fact that the mentally ill are far more likely to be the targets of violence than the perpetrators–every predator loves a victim who won’t be allowed to speak in their own defense.
But it’s also bullshit when used to discredit the perpetrators of crimes. Mass murderers frequently aren’t particularly shy about the motives behind what they do — the nature of the crime they commit is attention-seeking, is an attempt to get news coverage for their cause, to use one local atrocity to create fear within an entire population. (According to the dictionary, by the way, this is called “terrorism,” but we only ever seem to use that word for the actions of a certain kind — by which I mean a certain color — of mass killer.)
Elliot Rodger told us why he did what he did, at great length, in detail and with citations to the “redpill” websites from which he got his deranged ideology. It isn’t, at the end of the day, rocket science — he killed women because he resented them for not sleeping with him, and he killed men because he resented them for having the success he felt he was denied.
Yes, whatever mental illness he may have had contributed to the way his beliefs were at odds with reality. But it didn’t cause his beliefs to spring like magic from inside his brain with no connection to the outside world.
That’s as deliberately obtuse as reading the Facebook rants of a man who rambled on at great length about how much he hated religion and in particular hated Islam and deciding that the explanation for his murdering a Muslim family is that he must’ve just “gone crazy” over a parking dispute.
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philo
climber
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The discussion is about domestic terrorism here in the U.S. Of A not insurgencies on the international stage. Try to keep on topic Chuffles.
And stay within the side walls. Or is photo bombing what petulant children do when they aren't getting their way?
And an Excellent response Jim.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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LOcker...
I just got a reply from one of em...
SEE!
Damn LOcker. I truly thought were far more capable than that. That's what I get again for assuming.
The discussion is about domestic terrorism here in the U.S. Of A not insurgencies on the international stage. Try to keep on topic Chief.
OK Plicho...
Pretty amazing how Jim Donini states that
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2015 - 11:39am PT
well regulated militias won't cut the mustard in today's world.
Hmmmm! ALL these "Mass Shootings" since 2009 have been conducted by ONE individual.
And the bad ass system under the direction/command of President Obama that Jim supposedly says is superior to any "well regulated militia" that "can't cut the mustered" can't even stop ONE individual from completing his goal of desctruction.
Next try.... someone.
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philo
climber
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What do you mean "next try"? Dude you've been shootin nutting but blanks.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
OK, I know what you mean "next try"? Dude I've been shootin nutting but unrealistic ideological blanks. I'll give it another shot... (smoke coming out of your ears)
FIFY, Phlicho...
I will give you some extra credit though, Phlico, you're BUTTSNORKLING has been quite consistent....
And an Excellent response Jim.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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I think it got lost in the shuffle, but I'd like to know what's wrong with Chief's idea of putting a few soldiers in each school.
It would cost less to do that than to create and (not) attempt to enforce a new slate of laws that won't solve that particular problem.
That solution wouldn't solve the "epidemic of gun violence" that is an inner-city morass. But it would immediately go a LONG way toward solving the problem of school shootings. Simple, cost-effective, VERY effective in keeping shooters from getting any traction, and could be put in place tomorrow!
Why not IMMEDIATELY implement that program WHILE continuing the overarching discussion?
EDIT: The fact that it was well-publicized that all flights now have one or more undercover air-marshals aboard I'm confident did more to eliminate hijackings than all the TSA agents combined!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Mad bolted I say arm the school like the prisons
Locker ur high like a mother effer..lost in leberland
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philo
climber
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Madbolter do you have kids?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
I am beginning to wonder if maybe having ARMED GUARDS...
REally LOcker? You finally see it.. finally?
Concepts been around for four-five years now and has been implemented in several school districts nation wide. Put that glue gun down and keep it outta your nose.
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philo
climber
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Madbolter said "soldiers" not armed guards. Most school districts have police already assigned to the campus.
Will you also advocate for armed soldiers at all public places? Movie theaters, shopping malls, post offices, ice crime sores? What kind of world are you proposing?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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The same world that France, the UK, Germany, Spain etc etc etc live in....
Wake the FK up PHILCO!
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philo
climber
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Trained dogs would be cheaper and more effective as a deterrent. While we are at it we should scrap the incompetent TSA morons and implement trained canines.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Certainly appears that YOU Philco have been sharing LOckers Glue Gun.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!
Wake the fk up, Philco.
Fully armed combat ready Legionaire's regularly patrol PARIS 24/7.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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What kind of world are you proposing?
I'm proposing that we wake up to the REAL world, a world in which genuine nutjobs are increasingly emerging and in which you are NOT, no way no how going to eliminate guns.
So, face FACTS (as you keep urging the right to do) and MAN UP (literally) with the force necessary to protect the kids.
If it becomes necessary at malls, etc., then there too. Make it clear to nutjobs that the second they poke of their cowardly heads, those heads will be shot off.
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philo
climber
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So Madbolter again I ask do you have kids?
How many of you advocated for turning schools into armed encampments actually have school age kids?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
TGT, yup. Home of Sen Bernie Sanders:
Vermont has very few gun control laws, and has among the most permissive laws in the nation regarding the purchase and open or concealed carry of firearms. The state's rural character, along with its strong hunting and outdoor sports traditions, have contributed to the state's permissive gun policies.
You GO Bernie!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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moosedrool
climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
Will you also advocate for armed soldiers at all public places? Movie theaters, shopping malls, post offices, ice crime sores? What kind of world are you proposing?
Philo, I think The Chief would be happy in N. Korea.
Actually MOOSE, POLAND will do....
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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ANd Italy...
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Philo what if we took the troops withdrawal money and invest in school security...
Obama can save the day.. ur advanced Obama administration will look like they did when first in office..
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
So Madbolter again I ask do you have kids?
How many of you advocated for turning schools into armed encampments actually have school age kids?
Two of my three KIDS went to school with this exact same VISIBLE heavily armed protection when I was stationed in Spain ....
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philo
climber
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FYI Locker that's where the word came from, the clip used to hang your carbine from your shoulder harness.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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And lookee here...
In San Diego...
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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madbolter1 asked what is wrong with putting a few soldiers in each school?
i'd argue a few things:
1. specific evidence of the columbine incident, where there actually was an armed deputy posted to the school, suggests that, while some still believe his presence did save even more from being killed, in one case at least, it certainly didn't stop the catastrophic events that did happen.
2. the general logic in your next post is flawed. you state that: Make it clear to nutjobs that the second they poke of their cowardly heads, those heads will be shot off.
it's mistaken because in most of these incidents these boys and men [and it is almost always the y chromosome behind these attacks] already know that their heads are going to be blown off [usually at their own hand]. and so if a person's goal is to take out 10 or 20 people as they commit suicide, all your plan makes them do is move the location of said event to the wing of the school where these soldiers, that you've suggested, aren't posted. ie. the only way your plan would really work would be to post a soldier to each classroom and hallway of the building.
the second point in your argument that is uncharacteristically mistaken is calling them cowards. this is the kind of common sense bullshit that keeps americans from adressing the actual roots of these types of issues. you think someone who makes plans to go into a space, kill other people, knowing full well that after it is all over, that they will be dead, is a coward? i say this with absolutely no intent to shine any kind of positive light on the people who do this. i have no disagreement that they are criminal, insane, murderous, etc and etc. my point is that calling them cowards is mistaken and leads to the false logic that more soldiers will make a difference. most of these dudes already know they are going to die and they do it anyway. are you going to try and make these "cowards" die twice?
3. the overall cost would be astronomical. the u.s. can't even pay its teachers properly. where is the money going to come from to post a couple of soldiers to each school? and as argued above, even if this was done, it will be just like most of the rest of the u.s.'s high dollar investments in "security": an almost complete and total waste of money.
unless you all really go whole hog and like i said, post a soldier to every room and hallway.
and before all you who are making emotionally charged knee-jerk reactionary arguments for creating more gun control assume i'm on your side, i think your arguments sound like a bunch of circa 1980's moms making emotional arguments after traumatic events advocating that cd's having bad words be censored or that marijuana is a gateway drug and we should throw people carrying even seeds and stems into federal pens.
THIS SH#T NEVER WORKS. and by this sh#t i mean using more control to solve the problems that have been created by too much control already.
you all are arguing about the symptom... how can we control the symptom...
until you accept that you can't treat the symptom without treating the deeper disease, you're f*#ked as you'll only exacerbate the situation with more attempts at more control. this will happen in the same way that trying to control drug addiction, or alcohol use, or teenage sex ALWAYS fails in the long run, when attempts at more control are applied [and in most cases attempts at control actually increases incidence prevalence]. more control in the u.s. gun violence situation will not ultimately be the cause of any decrease in violence. you already have all of the laws you need to ban this type of thing. the problem is the people perpetrating these types of things don't give a f*#k about the laws and the consequences of those laws.
and so i'm sure if you're still reading you're asking: ok smart guy, what's the deeper disease?
i'll throw two out there:
1. living in one of the most controlled nations in the world and then calling yourself free [the control is not just physical, but more importantly it is economic, and it is social/emotional/spiritual]
2. and so much of the control comes from assuming that all there is, is the [individuated] material realm that can be objectively measured. ie. not accepting that the [collective] emotional, dare i say spiritual, grounding to the human mystery is just as real and important of consideration as the material one that we can mostly all see and agree upon.
the more you all try to chase the tail of the dog by applying more control the more you just increase the spiritual/emotional pressure that ultimately results in this kind of horror.
as always: imesho.
and so with sincerity: best of luck.
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