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ClimbingOn
Trad climber
NY
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Or you could find something actually worthwhile to argue about, instead of something that you have no hope of bettering in style, or even coming close. They are making a very proud achievement - why do you care if it does not perfectly conform to your chosen style of self-aggrandizing armchair ethics?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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It is what it is and what it is , is pretty damn awesome.
There are very few real rules in climbing.
1 don't die
2 dont get hurt
3 dont' hurt the climb
4 Be honest
Rating of this climb?
Worthy
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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If you listen real close, you can hear a collective snore.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Well, obviously you have now clue who I am, so I will give you the benifit of the doubt. I'll just let you know the're people, hell even the ones you respect don't agree with this is as clean ascent. Got more?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I'll bet I'm even more sure that you have no idea who I am.
It's way better than my ascents of el-cap. Hell it's better if they leave tomorrow without finishing.
Find me a climb ever done that cannot be IMAGINED being done better?
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:07am PT
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Sh#t, Forgot Who I'm dealing with. Magic line, the nose, counter parts, chuck, but I'm sure you guys have done those. So you have much place to talk.
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:09am PT
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It's just sad. That's why I gave it up. If you need more reason see comments below😞
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:13am PT
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It's all arbitrary after the first 4 rules man.
No matter how we cling to them, the rest of the rules are just a game of our own making for our own interest.
No one else should be required to play.
Tommy and Kevin are playing their game. They haven't hid it. I happen to respect it. You don't have to though.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:16am PT
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It all depends on how you define free climbing.
If you are fairly strict, you might not allow some of these things (each of them makes it easier):
 hanging belays
preplaced gear
rap placed bolts
preclipped draws
tick marks
chalk
tape on fingers
shoes
headlamps
portaledges
people helping with hauling
jumaring back to the high point
following some pitches and not leading all of them
rehearsal of moves
extensive fixed lines
It looks free to me, though. Each pitch pinkpointed by at least one of the people, in succession.
Comparing with other El Cap routes freed by various definitions, the preplaced gear is probably the biggest difference, although it was done on the 99% free ascent of The Shaft (Scott Cosgrove and Kurt Smith), one of the very early and quite hard routes. And preplaced gear was used by at least one person on a couple of pitches of Freerider. For the Dawn Wall, using preplaced gear (beaks, etc.) is a friendlier alternative than adding bolts to pitches of Mescalito that get a fair number of aid ascents.
Jumaring to the high point. Well, that could be avoided if they moved their camp or individual portaledges to the high point each day. It only affects logistics and not the climbing on the pitches, though.
Charlie, which of the above factors (or some I missed) do you feel makes the climb A0?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:20am PT
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I heard if you fall you have to start again from the bottom. I remember telling that to Mugs Stump when I wouldn't let him hangdog. He laughed and called me oldschool or oldfashioned.. something like that anyway.
Some rules don't seen very reasonable in this application.
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:21am PT
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Sad. So sad.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:22am PT
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Be happy man. I'm pretty sure they are.
The climb is what it is. I see no effort to hide what it is. You have a right not to be impressed by it. But trying to pretend there is nothing accomplished here is kinda blind.
Unless you wish to subscribe to the "nothing matters anyway" theory of life. In which case you wouldn't care enough to post would you?
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:36am PT
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Yeah my good friends have freed all the pitches. It's just not a clean free ascent of the wall. If you fixed a line on jam crack's first pitch, jug it then did the second pitch, you'd call it a free ascent of the wall?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:41am PT
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So, don't try it unless you can free it in a day? Is that your solution? I think it's pretty clear this is just a stepping stone to that eventual goal. I don't see anyone else putting in a better effort?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:42am PT
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I agree that jugging a fixed line to the high point doesn't look like free climbing. But you could avoid it by sleeping on a portaledge at the top of Jamcrack p1.
The question in my mind: does jugging the fixed line instead of staying in the portaledge really make climbing p2 a lot easier?
I don't think it makes the climbing easier.
So it doesn't invalidate the individual freeing of the pitches (in my view).
For the Jamcrack example, actually that wouldn't count as a push due to the fixed lines from the ground. But I know what you mean - it's the jumaring that "looks wrong".
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:47am PT
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Feel like I'm talking to the news. Free climbing is stance to stance.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:50am PT
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So, no hanging belays, right?
I know Matt Wilder felt that way and was careful to find stance belays when he came very close to freeing the West Buttress of El Cap.
Another example is the Salathe' Headwall. The upper 2 pitches can be linked to avoid one of the hanging belays.
However, the belay in between can be called "no hands" because you can hook your leg in the crack there and let go of your hands to belay if you really wanted to.
Some people do link it. It's definitely harder that way.
Hanging belays could certainly be abused by making 10 foot pitches, and getting lots of rests. It doesn't look to me like Tommy and Kevin are abusing them.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:51am PT
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Has el cap ever been free climbed then? Are there any routes that have absolutely no hanging belays??
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:53am PT
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I'm only 30 and know more about ethics then most. Have fun buying our books and paying for camping in the park, puts more money in my pocket to give me more free time to talk sh#t about you 5.10 climbers.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 12:58am PT
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Blah Blah Blah... what you have to know is that this climb is being done in the only way it is possible at this time in climbing history. It is as free as it can be done now. Respect the effort... in many years technology will make better shoes and climbers will be more shilled and the climbs ascent style will change with the times. It will be done in a push in 4 days with no fixed lines and no jugging to the high point and all the rest of the style points that are being used to argue about. The style being used now is what it takes now. The absolute best thing would be to not do the climb at all and wait until future generations are so good that it can be done in the best style. But we all know climbers have a hard time leaving things unclimbed. Had Harding waited 4 years to do the nose he would had a "modern pin rack" like the second ascent had and it would have been done in much better style. Do we want style to be the sole determiner in climbing? If we waited for future climbers to do things in better style then we wouldn't get much climbing done, now would we?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 01:03am PT
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Big Mike,
You are right - finding El Cap routes that don't have hanging belays limits the climbs by quite a lot (maybe to zero).
Even the Salathe' Wall and Nose have hanging belays up high.
It becomes a contrived definition (in my view) if you start counting a heel hook as "no hands stance".
All the little things that make things easier could be aid,
but for most of the El Cap free ascents, people accept some of them.
This gives themselves some level of challenge that does not involve crazy logistics for the purposes of inflexible rules.
That will seem wrong if you are accustomed to strict definitions of free climbing.
Back in the day, there were debates over what constituted free climbing on ice climbs. (The debates are probably still ongoing).
To me, it seemed like it was all aid, crampons, axes, etc. Then there are leashes or not. Wrist loops. Special handles that make wrist loops unnecessary. Sticky tape on handles. Sticky gloves, etc.
After awhile, my partner and I just agreed that there were a large number of factors/choices/rules. And none really matched a natural / simple definition of free climbing.
Each of them just made it easier.
So I take the same attitude to rock climbing.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 01:29am PT
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Hey Charlie, this is the way the boys are doing it.
If you personally are unimpressed with what they're doing, then hey man, you're unimpressed.
Me? I'm impressed.
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 01:59am PT
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 10, 2015 - 02:02am PT
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Charlie, where you from? And who taught you "the English?"
There's only one way to clear the air: Get your ass up there and do it right. Otherwise folks might think you're just sounding off while drinking that cheap sh#t.
That ain't sad, just silly - like some bald wanker complaining about combs.
JL
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 02:05am PT
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Grab another oe, sit back, talk sh#t, take some pics. Cause only a few of us can climb 5.14.
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 02:10am PT
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John, you're one of my heroes, I tried to talk to you on many occasions, jb tried to introduce me to you, Mari and mike, at biltzo's tried to stop you but you never had the time. Now here, you seem to care? Ask Bullwinkle. Dude.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jan 10, 2015 - 02:32am PT
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Charlie, man, head out to the Leap and free The Line. You'll feel better.
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 03:10am PT
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John, I soloed the left ski track on sight, a route while you were in the "death zone" times have changed and aperently ethichics have too. They didn't free climb the route. If you wanta say other wise call me.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Jan 10, 2015 - 04:35am PT
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A few years ago, I was in the Valley, and had just done the NEB of HCR. I ran into Tommy C. and started chatting with him, and we were both looking up at the setting sun light on Half Dome, which was really lit up.
I'm twice Tommy's age, but after looking at my hands, he realized I was a climber. I told him that when he gets old, like me, he will still love climbing, perhaps even more than now. He laughed, and appeared to be a real humble guy.
He's up there living life and I have much respect for both him and Kevin.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 04:53am PT
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Charie B,
Appears your ego is as big as the dawn Wall. Its not all about the climbing, sometimes its about the man. And based on your comments you dont measure up, i dont care how hard you climb. Tommy and Kevin are class acts, while you talk sh#t about them, and try to find ways to denigrate their achievements. Sad and pathetic.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Jan 10, 2015 - 05:02am PT
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I'm only 30 and know more about ethics then most. Have fun buying our books and paying for camping in the park, puts more money in my pocket to give me more free time to talk sh#t about you 5.10 climbers.
Really, all we need to know . . .
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l-b-1
climber
new york
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Jan 10, 2015 - 05:24am PT
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I'm only 30 and know more about ethics then most.
If only that were true for your spelling skills!
I'll never buy a Charlie Barrett guidebook, that's for sure.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 10, 2015 - 06:13am PT
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No, Keep your bad attitude and over blown ego away from the fun Friday thread!
Yo Charlie , can I call you chuck? You profit off climbing? good for you! May be I will find you to be the role model that the men climbing and recording the Free version of Mescalito/New Dawn, The Dawn Wall, are to many old and young.
30 years hmm lots of time to be a acknowledged for all your accomplishments.
I have never heard of you? You need good P.R. not this sad whine!
(actually may be I have herd the name Barrett ? do not know or care)
keep your ego and bad attitude away from a fun thread
you climb hard? what do you do for fun?
Baby steps to reach the point were you can profit off the masses that have ruined MY life's choosen activity Man you need a rock ennema , spelling and rules be damned ! Largo does not look for your hero worship, or any one else's.
The only reason that you put out any info is to compensate for...
Guide books have ruined climbing !
You have ruined climbing!
No one cares that the edges you pulled on are the smallest edges ever pulled on!
If you link them together and throw on the big stone you too can get the attention you crave
(craven, look it up!)
If you and your buttkissers can do a better job than the current four + ten or so buttkissers,
are doing, go prove it to largo. Feel free to deleat this thread. That is what is to be expected from a sour and unsupported, cur like you!!
what the post below means is what I was trying to say!! Thanx again to the **
Clear eyed and consistent Man from Strawberry, my hero Chuck! the Weedge, friend of no man not the mouse or the gnome or giant big mike he stands alone and also pisses. on you
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Jan 10, 2015 - 06:15am PT
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this thread is the story of a mole
criticizing a bird.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 10, 2015 - 06:19am PT
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Until someone does the whole thing top to bottom no falls, no hanging belays. I guess it ain't been free climbed?
Who signed a contract to agree to those stupid rules?
This is one of the most compelling projects in climbing and it's getting some great coverage that most of us really appreciate.
Why? Look at the damn route man! Holy crap it's the longest blankest part of el cap. A beautiful daunting line that at first consideration doesn't seem at all likely.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 10, 2015 - 06:40am PT
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Most of our climbing rules are contrived and silly. climb, enjoy the great outdoors and live to climb annother day. Ethics and rules only matter in FA's and FFAs. seems like these guys are useing sport climbing rules tweaked a bit to fit big walls. Totally legit untill a generation comes allong that makes cleaner rules the norm.
Charlie B comes accross like a real jealous, petty,mean, low life scum bag who kicks dogs and beats women.
that may not be the case in real life but that is how he is presenting himself here.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Jan 10, 2015 - 06:52am PT
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"Firsts" are not always pretty. Look at Skinner and Piana in '88. They got a lot of criticism too, but they were first, and that's important. They showed it was possible, later parties improved on that style.
Style is important, but mainly being honest about your style. These guys aren't hiding anything.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:07am PT
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and...
Scott Cosgrove did laps on the ski tracks when you were still in diapers if you were so lucky to have been in diapers,
So what.
I can not get over the fact that you think that the climbers aren't sending it as free as can be!
i will if you will
SHUT THE FCUK UP!!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:17am PT
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FUN thread!
Hey, guys are out on real rock. wHut-EV-errr!
To redeem yourself you must go to an area you have never been, climb what looks real without using any guide books or beta.
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dhayan
climber
los angeles, ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:21am PT
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Dude's just trolling you suckers...I think
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:24am PT
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What a d#@&%enozzle this Charlie B is. I bet his mom thinks so.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:25am PT
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Charlie Barrett? Really???
How embarrassing!
Drunk or knott.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:30am PT
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Supertopo is full of bullies, Charlie B. And a lot of others who get a share of the stolen lunch money.
You have every right to question ethics. I might not agree, but keep speaking your mind and ignore the haters.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:32am PT
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So, are they going to leave the 'draws up for a few days so others can give it a try?
I'm feeling pretty strong this morning.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:38am PT
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What books did you author Charlie B?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:39am PT
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You stupid people as usual have been 0wned.
A0 stands for free climbing.
A1 is where aid starts ........
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:51am PT
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Werner,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_climbing
A0 Pulling on solid protection, often without the use of étriers.
A1 Easy aid, no risk of any piece of protection pulling out. Safe falls.
bla bla...
I suppose you are technically correct, but pulling on gear is not free climbing. No?
---edit: Can anyone tell me what books Charlie B has written?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 07:57am PT
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Who the fuk cares what that stupid wiki sh!t says. :-)
Anchors are A0 and you're pulling and grabbing on them.
Everyone is guilty.
Everyone ......
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:00am PT
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It's just a thing. It is what it is. Trying to quantify it with a number is asanine.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:02am PT
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Thanks for the clarification Werner.
Solid protection is pulling on anchors (eg, hanging belay).
I am a n00b at this game and appreciate this information.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:04am PT
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Is it A0 if I accidentally stepped on the hanger?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:09am PT
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Is it A0 if I accidentally stepped on the hanger?
You know what you did and that's the final end point.
You people can spin this sh!t anyway you want but in the end you know exactly what you did .....
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:10am PT
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Can anyone tell me what books Charlie B has written?
The Complete Idiots Guide To Trolling
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!1111
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Meaty
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:15am PT
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"Charlie B comes accross like a real jealous, petty,mean, low life scum bag who kicks dogs and beats women.that may not be the case in real life but that is how he is presenting himself here."
Posted by tradman...1/10/15 6:40 am
Well, Charlie does beat women, he spent around a year in the Inyo country jail for it....rumor has it he's repeated that ignorant jive....very sad indeed. I also heard he tried to commit suicide??
The entire 'you don't know who I am' tripe just shows he's got some serious issues beyond his drinking problem. The fact is there are loads and loads of 5.14 climbers in the world these days, it's incredible....where does Charlie get off with his lame comment "Cause only a few of us can climb 5.14."....no Charlie.....little girls are now climbing 5.14.
"...puts more money in my pocket to give me more free time to talk sh#t about you 5.10 climbers."
How charming, and what a great sales pitch for people to purchase your books!!
Edit:Hours later...
,,, the nasty angry text message from Charlie, how sad!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:15am PT
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some guys sure act like they "own" the rock!
as if the rock gives a sh#t what you do to it..
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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Haters Hate and Charlie B = Hater!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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You know what you did and that's the final end point.
You people can spin this sh!t anyway you want but in the end you know exactly what you did ....
I'm starting to find out who here doesn't actually do any climbing...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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Everyone is guilty.
Yup. Which makes calling it a0 stupid too.
What did Lynn Hill say when you called her and told her "Sorry babe, you didn't free the Nose because you used a hanging belay...."
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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What did Lynn Hill say
"It goes boys" ......
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Meaty
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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Can everyone just grasp what Werner said and get over it.....if you rock climb you've very likely used a hanging belay. I think we can all live with that fact, maybe a few like Charlie cannot understand, he's few and far between. Does it mean you haven't free climbed something? No, you've just used a hanging belay, who really cares besides the nitpickers?
We've done what we've done and we can live with it,,, or worry about nothing....it's an easy choice.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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I've always been impressed by Charlie Barrets bouldering ascents, but after this bullshit I'll never buy anything with his name on it.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:01am PT
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Charlie has ever right to sound off. the climbing community is big enough for all of us.
That much said, one of the things I've noticed over the years is that when someone or some team shines especially bright, others feel secretly done out of their own thunder and start ranting. The biggest egos are often the most fragile in this regards, so instead of celebrating something wonderful, there is some dark internal compulsion to start tearing things down. The presence of intoxicants is assumed.
JL
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:03am PT
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Oh my god, I onsighted the left ski track!!
Ask Bullwinkle!!
SPRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!!!
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:07am PT
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It's always sad when people measure their self worth by how hard they can pull with their fingers. Shows they have very little else in life to be proud of.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:13am PT
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I soloed the left ski track on sight
So I assume you never heard anything about it or saw anybody on it prior?
Hmmm, OK.
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:16am PT
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I know who I wont be buying guidebooks from in the future.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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So I assume you never heard anything about it or saw anybody on it prior?
This.
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If
Big Wall climber
UK
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:30am PT
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Just back to this forum after a long absence and read this thread thoroughly, the question remains though, ho DO they get the rope up there?
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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^^^^ LOL
This was the OP:
SUBJECT: Dawn wall! A0 5.14!
MESSAGE:
Agree? Or have ethics changed?
ANALYSIS: So, yeah, this took a bad turn at Charlie B's first response revealing massive (how say you Tacos?) "butthurt".
I don't know you Charlie B, but it is obvious you have much to contribute to the world. By all accounts You are respected for your bouldering / climbing AND you are about to publish an important book.
I suggest you think about the consequences of your posting and how it may affect your success as an author.
PS: Charlie, I'm sorry for my snarky youtub share, above. Peace.
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Under Achiever
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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You, sir, are a shameless balloon-popper.
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Gearhead
Trad climber
Novato Ca
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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Hey Charlie, little advice. Drink a juice box and take a nap.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:37am PT
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I wish I were a climber, so I knew what you guys were talking about.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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Or he's pulling our collective legs and laughing his ass off.
If Charlie is the hard man from Bishop no qualms here - I like that guy. Was always super cool to me at the gear shop and that runs a bit deeper than internet water ;)
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ruppell
climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:45am PT
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Yeah, after re-reading his posts, that's some comedy gold XD
Despite the language obviously meant to insight, we do allow (collectively) extra slack for the top in our sport in regards to ethics. The difference to ME is I don't give a sh#t what anyone says or does, spray or not. I Interpret climbing for me.
TC has to many earned the right to use tic marks/stashed camps / etc etc for the work he's put in over the last 20 years - but so long as you don't affect others experiences EVERYONE has that right.
Sure you can fix lines on the rostrum and siege it, but are you really putting I the work or just stacking the deck in your favor? Was TCs 9 years on the project enough for us to give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to style? WHO GIVES A SH#T :)
I'm more interested now in jiu jitsu these days anyway so this talk all seems kind of silly, like dorks arguing over the rules of Magic the Gathering (any other plains walkers out there?!??!//)
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jan 10, 2015 - 09:47am PT
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Tom, I really liked what you posted there. It shows how taking a wider evolutionary developmental perspective on something (whatever it is, X; in this case, a hard-core climbing project dealing with achievement, progress, style, ethics, values, winning) - in terms of steps or gradations in space and time - also in terms of working w what you have, what's available at the time, in the here and now - can change, well, perspectives - re understanding, attitude, expectations, patience, flexibility, judgment, criticism, respect - all the above. This perspective, I think, can help (is a valuable one) in other venues as well.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jan 10, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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goddammit somebodys gotta question our acts of experience.
not sure why CB stopped where he did, maybe he passed out i heard he was a pussy of a drinker.
whats the style, or ethics of having someone hold a spotlight for ur accent?
Or having more salami delivered when you decide to hang a couple more days, What style is that?
These seem more in line with PCT hikers style.
Don't hate the messenger
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| Messages 1 - 80 of total 80 in this topic |
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