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Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Oct 11, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
I'd like to provide a rebuttal, but I'm too scared and emotionally fragile right now. Maybe someone else can chime in?
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Oct 11, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
Thanks for sharing!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
There's some truth in that, if virtually all difficult issues are managed that way. There is something to be said, though, for being selective in which issues will receive a reaction or attention...simply put, choosing one's battles.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:06pm PT
Perhaps so. But I find this true for humans in general.

When it matters I wont hesitate to deal with emotional upheaval. Longterm if needed. As far as screwing up goes.. If I screwed up, I will apologize sincerely.. but I don't take kindly to making a mountain out of a molehill either. Sh#t happens let's not make it worse than it has to be.

Very rarely does it matter. So why worry. Most things I worry about never occur.. half of those that do occur arn't bad.. and the ones that are bad I couldnt do a damn thing about anyway. Why waste time worrying.. easier said than done sometimes but I'm getting fairly good at it.

Now not worrying does not mean not taking appropriate action to avoid or fix an issue.. It just means relaxing about the outcome regardless what that is.

I have also found that many women think trivial things are gawdawful important..Totally freaking out over them to the point that the real issue is not so much the "issue" but their reaction to it. And woe be the man who seems too calm in that situation.. he will get blasted as uncaring. She is pissed off and you better listen and pay attention. lol. Then again sometimes the issue is not going to get resolved .. the gal wants to fight and that is all she wants.. too bad.. cya later.

How about our friend Patrick in Ireland.. That man loves deeply in a very difficult situation.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
Not all men are the same Lolli. Some of us are learning to deal with our emotions, just like any other human....
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
I have yet to meet a man who can cope with it, by free will

There's the problem: there is no free will (viz. Sam Harris, et al)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:25pm PT
There's the problem: there is no free will (viz. Sam Harris, et al)

I thought that was Mark Twain "what is man"
ruppell

climber
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
I deal with my own emotions just fine. It's dealing with my wifes that confuses the crap out of me.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
hey there, say, lollie...

over all the years in my life and observing all kinds of folks, and couples, and situations, i have actually seen this very thing--and--
in more than half of the observed situations...

though, of the various men: some dads, some just husbands, some young adults, they had varying degrees of this, and handled themselves, differently, due to it, as to 'hide' it, or, how they react to others, because of it...

very interesting lollie...

the important thing to remember, though, too, is we all have our
hurts, in side... though perhaps??? gals are more used to confessing, acknowledging it, and sharing it, and such...

as to SOLVING it through, it might equally hard, for both men or woman, once they realize what the trouble IS...

there may be 'keys' as to why' and they may be hard to find...
:(


it may be just too hard, too, thinking about all this, and thus,
it (emotions) get shoved in the closet, or pushed under the rug...


sooner or later, though, under pressure--things get revealed...


well, just adding what i have observed, to what you had just shared, there...
not sure if it will do anyone any good, but, it might encourage someone to look for any 'keys' in there life, if they have any such troubles...

or, give patience to someone, dealing with another, as to this very thing...


EDIT:

good comment by locker...

and, i have met about a handful of gals, as well, it many times depends on how they were raised, in a lot cases, --i've known some older woman who were told to sit down and shut-up from their mom's, and thus--the emotional freedom, is really stunted, :(
where perhaps?? men might be scared from their emotions,
sadly, if woman have been stifled, they seem to get nasty, or bitter,
when under pressure about it...



big mike:
as to this quote:

Not all men are the same Lolli. Some of us are learning to deal with our emotions, just like any other human....

very well said, also...



either way, we can see this, or see that, but--as with many 'observations' for whatever reason there are:

many exceptions--humans are JUST TOO VERSITILE, AND can't be limited to
strict categorizes...

but it may HELP ANYONE in any relationship, to just
be OPEN AND LEARN and thus, be able to
WORK it out with each other...


:)




TWP

Trad climber
Mancos, CO
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
What?

And all women have no fear of troublesome emotions? And never shirk, avoid, or deny them? But rather and instead, they face them "like a man? - to twist the metaphor given our context.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
Men are the way they are

because of selective breeding.

Females do the selecting.

If so how does this affect penis size in future populations?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
Men are cowards emotionally.

Wrong.

There, fixed it for ya:

Men are emotionally retarded.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
Nice troll Lollie

Of course, like ALL women, ALL men are the same.
I would argue that it's learned expediency rather than cowardice, but I'm too scared.
Rollover

climber
Gross Vegas
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
No sh#t..
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 11, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
What awesome answers from everyone, especially the funny ones with meaning....or not. :)

I've seen many men and women mature as they grow, Lolli. Growing into learning how to cope and even excel emotionally. I am one of those as well as my husband Dan. The last 10 years of our lives together he prayed every morning for people hurting and in pain....all kinds of pain. In his profession he became an expert at helping hurting people. He was totally different when we married at 19 and 20.

If you are in a relationship with someone you feel is an emotional coward... I suspect you knew before hand and hoped things would be different after time. Some people change, some don't. You can bail or hang in. You'll never know if you bail. But hanging can be challenging.

But I disagree with your premise. Men in general are not emotional cowards, some are, some aren't, as are women. Women tend to talk more but it doesn't mean they are dealing with it. But what do I know. Just living.....lynne.
crankster

Trad climber
Oct 11, 2014 - 03:12pm PT
Maybe half true.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
Ah...the case in point.

Give him room for his own process. It's not the same as your own, or anyone else's. Unless he's a machine, he's undoubtedly going through is own grief process, whether it's apparent or not.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Oct 11, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
Through empirical studies for more than half a century I have come to a conclusion. Men fear troublesome emotions as were they the plague.

 Not entirely true.

Sometimes, the logistics doesn't work out. Sometimes egos really do get in the way (I think this is true of it all, but that's another story). And sometimes, still, a man knows himself to be utterly shallow beyond all compare and thus, knowing himself to be this way, avoids what is never an easy affair to begin with.

Some men ask weather emotion is helpful for anything at all. Men cannot (or have not focused on finding) use for emotions for survival... thus, they are in the compartment of the male brain where emotional things are... But what is mans first instinct...?
If there was a way that women could make a clear connection between emotion and survival of him... you might swing this in a few generations of constant supervision of the subjects...

I guess, you are still looking for the less survival proprietor men to surround yourself with.

Hope this helps, but I know it to be the writings of an individual and nothing more.

Cheers
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Oct 11, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
I am emphatically knott an emotional coward, for I pursue love with the same passion as I pursue big walls or cave exploration. It's all about the adventure.

For what greater adventure is love? It contains all of the Elements of Adventure:

Great risk, uncertainty of outcome, huge risk-reward ratio, all-consuming passion, the willingness to throw caution to the wind and follow your heart, to face down your fears and your detractors.

I believe a grand adventure is unfolding this very minute. I would rather die a flaming wreck at love, than not to have dared to have tried.
The Call Of K2 Lou

Mountain climber
North Shore, BC
Oct 11, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
Skip to 1:50 to get to the point, like a man would.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 11, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
What are these emotions of which you speak?



clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
As a man I can't help hurt a woman's feelings, they have so many of them:)

Lollie, is your brother at all like his Dad?
Banks

Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:10pm PT
But there's mother too. They were married for 60 years, and the loss is huge. Even though he's entitled to his process, I think he bloody well should show he cares about her feelings too, not only about practical matters. Now he bails and leaves it all to us sisters.

I think this is where the problem lies. Generally speaking, men tend to deal more with the practical matters, and in his way, he thinks he is showing that he cares. You and your sisters believe he is not. Who is right? You both are. People deal in different ways. Also, remember that he lost his father and by the sounds of it, is the only male left in the family, so this will take some time to get used to as well.
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
Nice generalizing. Perhaps you should discuss your issues with men with your therapist not on a climbing site.
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:40pm PT
I just wanted to post to this important troll.

;)
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
I do not see this as a troll.

We have a friend that is hurting.
WBraun

climber
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
Lollie's right yer all just pussies.

Just look atcha all avoiding her question without any emotions.

Men only want to become gay now a days and marry each other and wear earrings.

Way homo ........
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
This is a load of Euro-bullsh#t.

or face their angry woman because they screwed up.


Here is the crux. Understand your woman before you marry her, and make sure she knows you.

If it gets more complicated than that, you're fuked!
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
I do not see this as a troll.

We have a friend that is hurting.

That should have been stated at the outset, then.

Generalizing smacks of trolling.
WBraun

climber
Oct 11, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
0wned ^^^^^
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
^^^+1!





VVVV Knows not of which they speak!
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
^^^negative turd

edit oops er I meant that at wern...no wait don't want to get banned.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
You want emotions -

Marry another woman.

Emotional is not our job or our nature.

Unless you are Alan Alda.

But he'll be dead soon.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
No, I wouldn't say he's like dad. Not in other things, at least. He's more like mom. I'm more like father. At least we have the same temper. :-)

It would demand involvement and engagement to plan and carry out everything around the funeral and other stuff that needs to be done. I do most of it, my sisters some. And I stay with mother. He's coming to the funeral.

But I guess you are right. First thing after I told him dad had died, he started researching what happens when someone dies.

Um, what were we talkIing about?

I dunno....
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:18pm PT
It is evolution at work

Women are traditionally nurturing, men deal with the bad stuff. From the early times, back in the caves women took care of the children, men went out to hunt giant mastadons. Each required a different mindset. Numbed emotions are a way of dealing with adversity.

The same roles exist today, just to a lesser extend, the lines have become blurred. Generally Mom tends the baby, cleans the house, dad does the dirty work. Differences in emotions is not a bad thing. Do you really want your man getting all emotional when the car breaks down at 2:00 am in the middle of no where. Controlling emotions is a survival mechanism.

I would be interested in seeing some studies on how PTSD affects men and women in different ways.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
Lollie, of course you know we throw plenty of goofball comments around, but every one of us here cares what is happening with you.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:29pm PT
What the heck is up with you guys? Seems like a troop of jakals.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
Hi Lolli.

I lurk a lot more than I post, but I have always enjoyed your perspective and contributions to this forum. Please accept my sincere condolences for your loss.

Do ALL men "runs as soon as they must confront and deal with sorrow and grief, or face their angry woman because they screwed up?" Absolutely not. Is it a common trait? In my experience, yes. However, I have seen a lot of similar behavior with women. I think any generalization about a gender (or race, or sexual orientation) is almost always untrue, and starts us down the road to prejudice and bigotry...

Rather than making this a gender divisive conversation, I would advance that PEOPLE of both genders often do some pretty messed up stuff to avoid dealing with unpleasant emotions. for me, the next logical questions would be how can one deal with that type of person, or how does one avoid manifesting this type of behavior. As a man, my answer to both questions would be "not sure." Now, can we change the subject. ;)
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
This is true.

Also - women are insecure, internally.

I'm glad we are able to finally make some generalities and not get bent out of shape about it :)
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
women are bitches. sorry for the generalization. :)

cant live with them, cant f*#k without them.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
how about that fact that we get in troubble for just about everything and are constantly put in situations where there is no right answer including no answer. If you say what you really think you are dead meat. If you say what she wants to hear you get called on it and are dead meat. if you give no answer you are dead meat......
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Oct 11, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
I apologize but I haven't read the whole thread.

1) I like Lollie.
2) Lollie didn't grow up a boy in boy culture.
3) If a 10 year old boy shows emotion, compassion, love, kindness, etc.; his buddies will beat the crap out of him.
4) By the age of maturity (~13), men are thus trained to expect a quick kick in the nuts if they show any softness. (Note that women didn't make us this way.)
5) We men are afraid of getting kicked in the nuts.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
I think the little lady has a case of the vapours.
Give her some laudanum and lay her out in the fainting room until she recovers.

SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:08pm PT

Waaaaaaaah!!!!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
Everyone grieves the death of a parent or loved one differently...

Interesting how women get mad at us for not doing it correctly.... Correctly= the way they think we should do it.....
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
I can't decide - either my feelings are hurt or I just have gas.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
yer dealing with a highly self selected group here Lollie.

Most of us wouldn't still be here if we didn't have a greater than average ability to suppress emotion and deal with high stress events in a detached rational manner.


Some times that has delayed consequences.

Maybe your brother needs your support, not criticism.


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
Na, it's not a joke. its simply yet annother case of women telling us how to behave and then getting pissed at us for not doing it the way they think we should do it...
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
Personally, I suspect Lollie has spent too much time watching Bravo Channel and reading back issues of Cosmo magazine.

Everyday I thank the stars that I am not a slave to emotion as I see more relationships destruct over some simpering whiney-ass female bitching about how their man doesn't moan, groan and carry on to their satisfaction.

My first wife - a certified Jewish princess was such a Drama Queen. Don't miss her at all.

Current wife of over 25 years and counting was a bad ass skydiver with over 5000 jumps, skied Double Black Diamond runs, climbed phone poles for a living and took no sh#t from no human. We get along just fine.



rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
Spot on. Women are emotional cripples.
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
It's sad that your outlet for dealing with a private matter like a death in your family has led you to resort to a pot stirring, antagonizing thread on a climbing forum. I feel very sorry for you.
WBraun

climber
Oct 11, 2014 - 07:59pm PT
All the men here are getting more and more emotional.

Soon they're gonna cry.

Then they'll have to have a beer.

Then when they run out of beer they'll leave to get more.

Thus it's true men always leave .....

John M

climber
Oct 11, 2014 - 08:03pm PT
wow… ease up folks. Seems like lots of people are pissed off or at least being pissy



mercury retrograde.. ba da bing..
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
Frankly, Jim Brennan is quite right, Lollie.

Sorry. With all due affection towards you; you are always tons of fun and promise. But don't you wish to be more real? You are not our first scandahoovian we have met, you know, so playing at it is seems more commedia del'arte than the arrival of Venus might have been originally configured. We have plenty of our own Swedes distributed throughout the upper midwest, for example, to have practiced upon their particular hegemony. And then there are the movies since the Sixties.

You established a thread here that only balances on the very narrow and covert ledge of your own projections as well as some rather thin and corny sociology. Such a broad brush too, Lollie; I am impressed. I guess that must be what a scandinavian female is all about (grin), but then I would fall into the same trap you seem to have, wouldn't I?

You tell us. But don't forget Heisenberg and the observer-effect. One is always swimming in the midst of one's apperceptions. I think you are very much wading through all of this yourself. Please take a look and report back. And for being a man...you haven't a clue, sorry.

or if you need a more poetic dictum:

Ozaki Hosai:

//Si seul
Que je fais bouger mon ombre
pour voir//

Do your own thinking justice, or rather your conjecture. Yeah, I would suggest you back up a bit and see where you, Lollie, come in on the tale, now squirted on thousands here. You play at the Swedish gal, free as Curious Yellow (lol) and so forth, and slanted promises, but really, doesn't it get a whole lot more complicated right off the bat than you have even started to analyze? There could have been other much more authentic approaches to broaching this grand and sweeping subject, however tiny it actually is.

You remind me of something long ago, Loll.

When Royal and Joe Fitschen, Liz and Linea came back to Modesto (I was housesitting) from a long sojourn beachside in the Sea of Cortez together (1970) forty-four years ago, Royal related to me soon after, that one of the "very weighty" discussions the foursome had was, "Climbers always have dominant mothers and retreating fathers". I think they were on psychedelics at times perhaps. Seriously this was the kind of generalization we often saw explaining gay men, as well. Hilarious.

Whatcha say, Lollie? Go for it? Joe and Royal thought it worked at the time of course, but was it universal enough to utter in good company? Certainly not.

It wasn't true in my case. Both of my parents were renown powerhouses, just different approaches. And I would say for myself and my published writing a really very emotional presence has been always on hand. Many of us writing now, men in climbing, are bringing home the bacon on this spectrum; I know many others like me. As daredevils, are we required to fling Oedipus-like into ventures so as to take the place of an aging paterfamilias and gain the Mother? Or Icarus-like, brave the sun upon our waxed wings until they fail us on the way to the sun? No, we are just writing from the same place that say, Maya Angelou, wrote.

excerpt:

//I’ve learned that you can tell a lot about a person by the way he/she handles these three things: a rainy day, lost luggage, and tangled Christmas tree lights.//

It seems to me, forum and all, that you have continued your popularity and splendid fun-factor. But as for real thinking and psycho-social or intellectual value, it's awfully flabby and, sorry, quite shopworn and trite.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Oct 11, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
My usual reactions to emotional situations are in this order;

1. I'm thinking I'm going off the grid.
2. I'm acting like an arsehole.
3. I'm thinking does this mean I don't get sex?
4. I'm making amends.
5. I'm thinking I'm going off the grid.
Messages 1 - 55 of total 55 in this topic
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