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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Please don't tell me you guys have no clue why women don't post here..
And it is possible to be squishy and climb too :)
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Most females I know that climb hard, don't have patients or time to do something as useless as posting on this forum...
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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I think if more women contributed to this forum it would be a good thing. Maybe add some class. no dr f>
jus sayin
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Women climbers rock.
There is no lack of appeal in lady climbers or any other female athlete, in my opinion.
I prefer a strong woman to a weak curvy one any day.
Look at those arms! Straight A's are even better!
Two of the toughest girls in Placer basketball!
Strong military gals rock too!
And last but not least, I love a climbing woman.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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more old losers flapping their gums
zzzzzzzzz
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Randisi: I'll let you figure that one out
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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what a zinger
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Lass>class.....class>lass. A magntetic attraction between the two. I have a friend who doesn't have a door on his bathroom OR a girlfriend.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Hawk, I guess Randisi didn't say curvy=weak, he said lacking in the "necessary" curves. I'm the one that implied curvy=weak. My bad.
Yeah Anita, if you don't like old losers you can always streak your young sexy ass over to youngsexyn00b.com. We love you, in a kinda itchy crabs sorta way!
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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There's more than a few cool chicks who post here.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Might inject some sense of shame in this boy's club.
AAAAHAHAAAAHHAAAAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"I have a friend who doesn't have a door on his bathroom OR a girlfriend."
I once thought that a bathroom door could be optional in a committed relationship. I was wrong about that, too.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I know my experience in life must be out of the mainstream, given the extent to which my views differ from most here. I nonetheless will let fly.
1. Who says climbing women are not attractive? You must live in a female-deprived area. I would say that a sampling of the population of women who climb (at least that I know) yields an exceedingly high proportion of attractive ones.
2. If you can't figure out why many women would find our environment here one of blatant male chauvinism, I doubt that I can help you.
John
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Ok, that was a little too academic JEL.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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blatant male chauvinism
Yes, that is pretty much the problem. Those of us who are able to ignore it for the most part, or not allow the culture to stop us from enjoying the content and participating, post. But I know there are several women who lurk or mask their gender to avoid having to deal with the crap.
There are plenty of decent, respectful men on this site, and they are worth knowing. It's also helpful to be tolerant of others, which I try to be, except in cases which cross my personal threshold. There have been a few people here who I would not seek out in real life due to some of the things they post on this site.
But, I am a very strong-willed person; not one to step away from confrontation or be driven into silence. Many women have a different way of being, and they choose not to participate in this decidedly unfemale-friendly place.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Yes indeed. Woman is singular, men is plural.
Kinda like supertesto.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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I used to be the only girl at the crags. I used to be the only female I knew who actually led climbs and planned trips. My adventures are modest, and I understand that. I watch the treatment of others with modest ambitions and dumb questions. The community can be very supportive, but mostly very brutal. I don't see too many gals posting here. I don't post too often. Why?
I choose to ignore the cruder threads even though I sometimes get lured into looking at them.
Many threads talk about places I will never go and climbs so far beyond me. I have nothing to contribute to those conversations.
Items I felt compelled to discuss - those threads quickly fizzled out.
The verbal sparring can be entertaining - but oftentimes devolves into bullying. I don't want to be part of those uncomfortable discussions.
I don't want to be the stereotypic cherrleader climber. I am dead serious about my passion for the sport. I prefer silence, and to slip by unnoticed than to be ridiculed, as I was in the guts of one of my TRs.
The gang around the campfire is a bit bigger than apparent. We watch how those who choose to speak are treated. Personally, I have had some encouragement and some derision. So many posts are written and never submitted.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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I prefer silence
Quality. Even though I can't achieve it myself most times.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Please don't tell me you guys have no clue why women don't post here.. Exactly.
It's partly because no real efforts have been made at finding a solution,
except for the occasional banning and then forgiveness.
We haven't put Locker and other folks who can't seem to
avoid making unfriendly posts on the
"Pay Per Post" plan.
Pay in advance, 25c per post....
Actually a simpler method would be to have a daily/weekly post quota.
The quota gets reduced if the person posts negatives.
Otherwise they are very hard to get rid of.
I think the only one who really left was dirtineye, and it wasn't due to
banning or his own choice....
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Proper ladies don't feel comfortable
Participating in
Circle Jerks
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Seamstress said it very well. The abuse and disrespect factor is high plus I honestly don't think anyone is interested in my ultra light duty stories. If I have questions, I email them or fb. I also prefer climbing alone, too many experiences with judgmental, ass.hole dudes.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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That sucks Michelle. That sucks Seamstress too that you felt like that.
I can't believe people who take shots at members who take the time and effort to put up a trip report.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY SHUT THE FVCK UP!!
This is a climbing forum, and climbing content should be encouraged, not discouraged.
Anyone caught discouraging content should be banned!!
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Oh?
You sure?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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THREAD DRIFT WARNING
Athletic, strong, fit, bold females are great. Women who are comfortable with themselves rock.
bust size? MEH!!!
more than a minimum of makeup? ugh!
intellect, personality, integrity rule.
The more a woman subscribes to the pouty-lip slick airbrushed boob-enhanced media "ideal" the less likely I am to find her attractive.
Some makeup and hair poofing is fine if she's dolled up for a special occasion.
Otherwise BLETCCH (as a certain comic book character is known to wail)
An attractive women I know is a still fit ex-olympic rower/current bicycle racer who wears rather plain clothes and minimal makeup. Most wouldn't call her pretty. She's a kind, charming, accomplished professional woman and a delight to be with. Ditto a couple of women climbers I know well.
The current media frenzy on young babes and stars is giving our young women very bad role models and an emphasis on superficial glitz instead of substance and character. Miley Cyrus, Angelina Jolie's latest skin tight dress, the Kardashians? Give me a break!!!!
(A. Jolie sounds like an interesting woman)
Curmudgeon Rant Of The Week
PS: I've always enjoyed climbing with women of all levels of talent. I don't even mind if she dances up the 10c that just spanked me. Good for her.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Actually a simpler method would be to have a daily/weekly post quota.
The quota gets reduced if the person posts negatives.
I like this idea Clint
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adikted
Boulder climber
Tahooooeeeee
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Bump for less bro content more lady input!!
G
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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Well stated, Seamstress. My regrets.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Almost all the posts on this page of this thread and lots of other posts in other pages of this
thread insinuate that the only value women have to offer men on supertopo is what our bodies look like. Whether we are round or narrow, pretty or ugly, athletically built or not. It is easy to understand why many women avoid posting here. The complexity of who we are gets narrowed down to one dimension. That is the essence of objectification.
Do women exist to provide what you want visually? Is that all we have to offer? See the "how to women feel about the boob thread" thread to understand how we feel about the objectification of women on supertopo. You might be quite attached to your way of relating to women. I'm probably not going to change this with this post. You might think it's flattering to be selected out solely for your physical attractiveness.
This is not a women-friendly forum and most of those of us who are here post or lurk because we appreciate the gems that shine here. Some of those gems are people and some are in the content. Thank you for reading if you are one of the gems.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Daphne:
Thanks for your courage to post.
Straight forward, easy to understand, well stated, to the point.
Thanks again!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Daphne kicks ass!
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Almost all the posts on this page of this thread and lots of other posts in other pages of this
thread insinuate that the only value women have to offer men on supertopo is what our bodies look like. Whether we are round or narrow, pretty or ugly, athletically built or not. It is easy to understand why many women avoid posting here. The complexity of who we are gets narrowed down to one dimension. That is the essence of objectification.
Do women exist to provide what you want visually? Is that all we have to offer? See the "how to women feel about the boob thread" thread to understand how we feel about the objectification of women on supertopo. You might be quite attached to your way of relating to women. I'm probably not going to change this with this post. You might think it's flattering to be selected out solely for your physical attractiveness.
This is not a women-friendly forum and most of those of us who are here post or lurk because we appreciate the gems that shine here. Some of those gems are people and some are in the content. Thank you for reading if you are one of the gems.
Daphne,
On behalf of the men on this forum , forgive us for our tendency toward objectification, or don't. The fact is that as a woman you will not understand the male sexual drive mechanics. Or their inherent stupidity, or the male ego.
Women are wired different, not exactly opposite, nor necessarily equal. Different. Superior to the male side of the species in many ways, the world needs its women leading, thinking, creating, caring, deciding...(again forgive me for speaking in generalities.)
Men routinely, underestimate the complexity of woman. Some men will never learn. Many of the men here do respect women and are "gems", others not so much.
Women are a barely explored universe, or so I believe.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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^^^^^^^. Oh Sully, not so fast, suffering builds character. I forget which guy said that.
Susan
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I think women are beautiful.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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the fair maiden
Where? I want to see.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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I forget which guy said that.
Your sarcasm oozes. Good one.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Supertopo lady friends, thank you for trying, yet again, for trying to explain why most of the fantastic women who used to post here all the time have gone quiet. I miss their voices.
I'm still here for the gems. People and posts. But the ratio of nasty to worthwhile, from my perspective, has clearly shifted over the years. But I don't own this place, it's not built for me. The vocal will build what they want. We will all stay or go according to our personal interest.
One last thought: it's not even the juvenile pseudo-sexual t&A crap that bothers me. It's the lack of kindness of one person to another.
All of the "grow a pair", "harden the f$@k up" posturing... How sad. To justify the lack of ability to be simply decent to another human being when communicating "around the campfire".
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Hey locker was that from a movie ?
I need that on a t-shirt.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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This is not a women-friendly forum ...
Daphne, I will suggest that this is not a friendly form, period. Young squirts come here for some honest advice, and they get shamed within the first two minutes.
We used to have all sorts of folks posting here, climbing gods and neewbie mortals alike. It'd be interesting to see a graph of who posts now-a-days, and the number of posts made by the top posters, and the hate-to-love ratio of their posts.
But, I'm not going to deny your claim. On this forum, or out in the wild, men are dogs. Even here in progressive Santa Cruz, where we men cherish the soul of woman, the most zen-like man's eyes pop when a co-ed walks by in a mini-skirt.
I'm pretty sure it's innate. Nature or nuture? It's nature all the way, baby. And don't kid yourself, the majority of women in the western world play into the Cat & Dog game. Certainly it's sad, but in many places it's one of the keys that women use to have power over men. Your eyes are closed if you miss the game.
But you are 100% correct, in world of over-testosteronized men, such as the fish-bowl of boys roaming this forum, that cat & dog game can be over-played and pretty harsh in the result. Still, there's lots of good boys here who admire the inner beauty and strength of women even more than they admire their external beauty.
But that's not to say that we don't also admire them in their mini-skirts.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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don't forget sandwich making.
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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Thanks, Daphne.
This thread has been so discouraging.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Its a common, regrettable theme across many climbing forums, actually, much of the internet. Thanks to Daphne, Seamstress, Michelle, and the rest for posting on the subject, sincerity requires bravery, and it's often punished.
Seamstress, you inspired me to read back through your TR's. It's true that JLP was an ass in your McKinley TR, but many many people appreciated all of your trip reports, and there are no lack of duffers here who also enjoy adventures that the hardcore might consider mundane, and we enjoy reading about that kind of trip too. Don't let a few jerks drive you to silence, most of us are not in their corner and don't want the anti social louts to "win".
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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It takes time, effort, thought, work to post trip reports and thoughtful comments. It takes no time or effort at all to post one liners, same photos over and over, insults and such. Just from a time and effort standpoint, people can write 100 noisy, nonsense posts in the time it takes for some one to write one interesting and honest post.
I laugh at the insults that fly back and forth, until they do not end. Then it is just depressing. But criticizing noise is a futile action, I think. Complaining about noise just creates more noise.
As we can find ways to support and encourage, just even respond to people who try to put some effort into their posts, then we might get more posts where people put some effort into them. I am not sure of the best ways to encourage people on supertopo. I have not used private messages much, but I might start sending thank yous out that way, so they don't get drowned in the noise.
There are some amazing gems of posts and links that I read here at times. Keeps me reading here on occasion, despite my better judgement.
I will agree with Off white. I love trip reports about average climbs and average people having interesting experiences.
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matisse
climber
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almost all the posts on this page of this thread and lots of other posts in other pages of this
thread insinuate that the only value women have to offer men on supertopo is what our bodies look like.
So Daphne kind of cuts to the heart of the matter, I think. I've played with boys a long time, I'm pretty thick skinned. I don't post here much mostly because I'm busy. I post mostly medical info and stuff that I know about, so that kind of limits the threads I participate in. I avoid posting in the general discussion type stuff mostly because I have to filter myself so heavily to avoid the usual scathing abuse you guys heap on each other, that it isn't fun. I don't get to be me. You guys play rough with each other. I've been flamed over a trip report for crissake. I deleted it.
On behalf of the men on this forum , forgive us for our tendency toward objectification, or don't. The fact is that as a woman you will not understand the male sexual drive mechanics. Or their inherent stupidity, or the male ego.
That is a total f*#king copout.
If you haven't spend time on social media lately you might spend some time with the #YesAllWomen hashtag. A response to "the not all men are like that" that surfaced after that entitled nutjob shot up UCSB, YesAllWomen is the idea that although not all men are crazed homicidal maniacs, ALL women can relate experiences of being blatantly harassed, or worse. much much worse. Men that pass harassment and misogyny and worse off as just boys will be boys even if they don't behave that way themselves perpetuate the problem.
ps Matisse = xx and not xy, if you haven't figured that out
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Hey thanks for thanking me for being brave enough to post on an internet forum as a female
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Locker, why did you post that photo? It's just a bloody sneaky sexist way to once more post halfnaked bodies of women, while trying to seem irreproachable doing it. What in Daphne's post did you not understand?
There has been inexcusable posts, like to have the gall to comment upon a another member's body, for instance. Not my achievements, not who I am, but how I look like. Go to hell loser, is my answer to that.
A woman was banned who protested against women being seen as an objects. Not one man who treat women both in general and as fellow members as objects they have a right to comment upon, has been banned. There has been sexually insinuating comments regarding underage daughters of several members, including my own daughter, and nothing happens even to those members who makes them.
One the other hand, I have been thinking it's been better this time around. Maybe because it was so very bad a year ago. Maybe because I choose more carefully nowadays what I'm interested in reading. There's plenty of fun, kind, interesting and intelligent people whose posts are a joy to read. And I love the positive responses when other members are encouraged. The spreaders of joy, the caring fellow members are the reason to be here. The companionships and the stories. All worth while.
Cheers to you, you good Supertopians! I raise my glass in respect!
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matisse
climber
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As others upthread pointed out, males and females are wired differently. Beta: deal with it.
Seems, too, a couple pussywhips have forgotten what it means to be male.
On the other hand, way to represent, Locker. :)
PS We're all objects. Objectification is such a bullshit term and concept, lay it to rest. Objects/animate and Objects/inanimate. Objects/male and Objects/female.
What are the lassies saying, females don't leverage guys as much? Please get real. Reciprocity is the basis of relationships. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Males are visual creatures, visually stimulated. That's the way we're wired. No apologies.
Women, too, have their gender-specific wiring. So it works both ways. Adapt.
Is this a climbing site or some old 19th century spinster site?
Wow. Well done! why women don't post here summarized in one post. congratulations high fructose.
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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I didn't think it was going to get worse, but not the first time I've been
surprised. Lack of awareness of entitlement, decency equals caving in,
being an as#@&%e is great, to be expected, you just gotta live with it, no,
wait, you're only imagining things anyway...
Thanks to Matisse, Lollie, Michelle, Daphne, Seamstress, Sullly.
When I read "on behalf of the men of this forum" or whatever the f*#k it was, it makes want to puke.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Thanks to Matisse, Lollie, Michelle, Daphne, Seamstress, Sullly.
+1.
add ekat, lynne, nita and tami as frequent posters. lady s as an occasional.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Thanks to matisse, Lollie, Michelle, Daphne, Seamstress, Sullly. and SCSeagoat, Crimpie etc.
I've always appreciated your posts, climbing and not.
I grew up in a male dominated society, in the Dark Ages of Salt Lake City where in many Mormon families, the men had all the power. I'm familiar with men objectifying women, including myself when in my adolescence and young adulthood. Slowly, largely with my Father's excellent example (I can't remember him EVER referring to a part of a woman's anatomy) and moving to the Bay Area, I outgrew it.
My Father did appreciate attractive women, much as my Mother would comment on attractive men. That had little or nothing to do with their preferences for opposite sex friends.
Men's objectification of women has nothing to do with "men are sexually different" and everything to do with enculturation and power.
Why until very recently have there been no women priests/bishops/etc in christian religions? Why are there still none in the Roman Catholic church?
Why can't Mormon women attain the priesthood?
Why are there still so many male politicians opposed to a woman's reproductive choices?
Men should appreciate women as equal to men in all except one extraordinary and very difficult thing only women can do. Childbirth. I don't see how any man who's participated in it can ever again think less of a women.
one final thought: some women are bitches, some men are arseholes. I've worked with both. They are quite equally obnoxious.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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There's a lot of mansplaining on this thread.
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matisse
climber
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Perhaps a bit overly sensitive as well - perhaps like Matisse
sigh. let's review:
This thread started when someone posted essentially wondering why so few women posted on ST. This was follows by the inevitable pictures of hotties, and not so hotties, other assorted supertopo memes etc. A few women offered their opinion as to why they did or did not post.
to which your response was
Males are visual creatures, visually stimulated. That's the way we're wired. No apologies.
Women, too, have their gender-specific wiring. So it works both ways. Adapt.
Is this a climbing site or some old 19th century spinster site?
so you appeal to basic biology (i.e. boys will be boys) no apologies yet women have to adapt?
Then you insinuate that every woman who doesn't agree with your opinion is some sexually deprived or repressed or frustrated old woman. Even if they were, that would still be beside the point. The appeal to basic biology is a copout. since the basic biological success is living long enough and reproducing enough to pass your genes to the next generation, we transcend basic biology on multiple levels and in almost all aspects or our society. except, according to you, this one. Calling you on your bullshit does not make me overly sensitive, it just makes me calling you on your bullsh#t. is that so hard a concept?
Even my cat transcends basic biology when he learns to stay off the kitchen counters.
edited to add..hmm I wonder why the filters let me say sh#t the first time but not the second...
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Dude, locker. I don't get it man. Folks ask you to stop doing (whatever) and your response is usually confrontational and frequently disrespectful. Why is that? I'm just curious. I know from chatting with you that you're not really a major dick, so what gives?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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This is an old-man-dominated climbing site. This is not in dispute.
The question is: should it be this way?
Or should it function more like an in-person discussion,
where people behaving poorly are discouraged from participating?
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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My female compatriots have said everything so well, nothing more can be said. This is the reason why I normally don't post on the argumentative threads. Arguing with a brick wall leaves me with bruises and the wall remains immutable in his opinion because he is personally attached to that opinion. My mind boggles at the reasoning for this attachment.
Someone deleted their posts from the beginning of the thread. I honor that person, whoever he is. I have this story running that he saw that women felt objectified by some content here and responded with kindness.
Thank you to the many men expressing support for me and all the other wonderful women posters here. Scuffy, Jaybro, DMT, apogee, HighTraverse, jammer, kaholatingtong, murcy-- I am feeling better just listing these fine men and I haven't even gotten to everyone who posted compassionately on this thread and who posts in general on supertopo. All gems.
Phylp, your comment regarding kindness is so reflective of your soulful heart. Michelle, the sandwich line was great. Likewise all the other women here-- I count myself in special company.
Matisse, so great, the line about training cats.
Humans have a prefrontal cortex that allow us to transcend the animal survival instincts of the mammalian brain. But the frontal brain (with its executive reasoning) isn't always online. We have to intend it to be. Mindfulness, consciousness, awareness of the personhood of others are qualities that make a being human a beautiful experience.
edit: if I didn't mention your name, it is simply that I didn't go through the whole thread. Happie, you are awesome. JohnEleazarian, you spoke truth early on here when you noted the blatant male chauvinism.
Also, I always think of LuckyPink in st discussions like this. She doesn't come around much anymore because the climate here isn't friendly. She is one of the women I miss most.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Well done! why women don't post here summarized in one post. congratulations high fructose.
+1, Matisse!
Locker, between the fact that I'm not on Supertopo every day and
the nine hour timedifference, I find it amusing it would be fail because I don't answer at your expectancy of when an answer should be delivered.
Ok, these women publicly announce that they're proud that they look as rather normal women. To make that announcement understandable demands an underlying assumption that the normal state is that women are not expected to be proud of their bodies, if they look as most women do. Since these women are proud of themselves, therefore they want to encourage other women too to post photos of themselves in bikinis on the internet? Did I understand you right? My next question is then: Why? To please whom?
Exchange that above to men in the role of the women. Does it in any way seem normal to you, if two men sat in an interview and made the statement that since they have normal men's bodies and they're proud of that fact, therefore they want to encourage more men too to put up photos of themselves in swimsuits on the internet too?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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lassies with some sense of humor? This is a copout, too.
You are saying: tolerate whatever bad behavior happens,
and pretend it was a joke.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Should I leave the site in disgust because Lollie though quite lib on many counts doesn't seem to factor in gender differences when it comes to (voluntary) career choices in science, engineering, etc..
What the f*#k?
Are you out of arguments, since you now start to make up your own fairy tales? You don't have a clue about what I think about career choices.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
if everything were 50/50, that might be true, but here on st the m/f ration is like 50:1.
i've clashed w sully but i really appreciate her posts. this site is i dominated by old, fat, underperforming and over-entitled white guys. sort of like congress, or the fortune 500. or the tech community, if you delete "old, fat" and qualify "white."
this site needs way more women posters and young folks and fols who aren't in that aging wasp demographic. for a start. most of them climb more than the regulars here do.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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There is a genetic (i.e., nature) component to it No credible scientific evidence.
My high school advanced placement calculus and physics classes had a high proportion of girls and they did as well or better than the boys.
And THAT was in Dark Ages Utaaaahhhhrrrr.
Here in Silicon Valley there is certainly not parity in job opportunities for women. It's slowly getting better. Lack of women in the highly skilled workforce is a symptom of unequal opportunity not unequal intellectual capacity or interest. Many girls and young women are discouraged from high tech education and careers precisely by social influences.
I feel somewhat sorry for men who are threatened by accomplished women. It's so MUCH more fun to work and play, climb and love as equals.
Who are the high school girls I remember all these years later? The "cute" ones? The "sexy" ones?
no.....the smart, ambitious, in my face ones I was competing with.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Yuk
This thread is like a horrible get together
of relatives ,half drunk and out of booze.
Maybe delete,for my sanity.
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matisse
climber
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Hang in there Stewart. It is a worthwhile discussion.
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matisse
climber
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HFCS, just out of idle curiosity: since you are such a biological expert, what do you do for a living?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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HFCS
wrong question. Are gays intellectually, socially, physically, morally equal to straights?
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matisse
climber
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HFCS specious argument.
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John M
climber
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I believe the transcendence was meant as saying that simply because one is wired this or that way doesn't mean one has to act on it. Some theories say that men are wired for multiple partners. But they don't have to act on it, especially if they want to remain married to a woman who wants a monogamous relationship. Which is the point. Do we want to encourage women to post or not? Saying that they should just get over it or toughen up isn't very nice. Why shouldn't men just toughen up and get over the need to objectify women at every opportunity?
And the fact that this place is more civilized then many other internet sites isn't exactly a thrilling endorsement. its not that hard to be more civilized then the majority of the internet.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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My point: don't be a dick. Stop rationalizing it by saying men are dicks because that's why. If thinking stirring up some bitches on the internet anonymously is a hoot, then you're really kinda sad. I seriously doubt we chicks are going to loose much sleep over this. Jokes on you bro.
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matisse
climber
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HFCS you haven't answered my question about what you do for a living....
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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This is an old-man-dominated climbing site.
So true, so true...and let me say, that this truth is in no way a deterrent for people such as myself, nor is it a deterrent for myself personally.
If you really knew me, you'd know it's quite the opposite! ;)
Personally, I've not been posting to this site because...
I've found a better place to find old-man-dominated climbing action!!
hehehe, if you don't know, you should ask your closest female climbing friend ;)
Good luck in attracting more ladies, though I really like the gender spread myself! hee hee hee
Cheers
LS
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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First
Maybe that's what this site lacks, lassies with some sense of humor? Nothing humorous about your first post. Answer received as you posted.
I don't know, maybe it's a generational thing.
Maybe I should show it to my daughters then. They're younger than you, I guess. You'd probably find all of us older women soft compared with the response you'd likely get from them.
Or don't a few of you get around on the internet to see how wild wild west it is. Some of us were on the internet when you were in preschool, by the look of your profile photo, so I doubt that argument holds water.
Sure I do, you took offense to the idea (substantiated by research) that boys more than girls (males more than females) are oriented to science and engineering particularly as young adults and older adults.
There is a genetic (i.e., nature) component to it, sorry. We are not all "just" blank slates.
No, you don't. There's a difference in what we are oriented against, but serious research also takes into account our upbringings, how children are reared and directed towards certain areas depending on gender, etc. The "wrong" gender is discouraged to take interest in certains subjects. The differences lessens in more equal societies. "The genetic component" is not so heavy as you seem to want to. It exists, but more is dependent on how open society is to males in caring professions and women in science and engineering.
And you read in your own idea of what I answered upon. I grew up in a very scientically oriented home. My mother was a chemical engineer very successful in her field and myself have worked in a male dominated environment my entire life.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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It's so MUCH more fun to work and play, climb and love as equals.
:-) YES!!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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I have avoided non-climbing threads until now, and I will resume that. So sorry, non-morons.
heh
wait til u see the "mind" thread
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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HFCS wants permission to be an animal because activating his humanity takes effort. Your gay metaphor doesn't hold water. In a relationship, gay men are just as desiring of being treated with respect as women. All people would like to be treated with respect-- and that is what we are asking for here. Respect us as whole people instead of functions of your sexual instinct.
When you participate in an internet forum you are having a relationship with members of your community.
My current hypothesis is that men defending the posting of the objectionable material tend to treat themselves as objects as well. When the goal is more important than the people you are with you will demean the needs of the people you are with so you can achieve your goal. There is an intra-personal dimension to this character structure: if your goal supersedes your human needs you will deny your humanity in pursuit of your goal.
Do you climb for the summit and the goal won or for the joy of the movement over rock? If the summit is most important it will be "every man for himself". And the humanity of a woman and her needs will not matter for you as your needs for sexual gratification are most important.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Yup, I experienced ghosts, which doesn't make me a supernaturalist nor do I believe that body supertranscends in body, or however you put that. You better read again what I wrote about that.
I have a rather scientific outlook on life, you see. If I experience something, I draw the conclusion it depends upon something. If unknown matter, "ghost" is as good word as any.
Taking the easy way out, huh?
You have yet eluded to answer any question or argument put to you,
changed to comment persons instead of the subject,
tried to patronize,
tried to be felt sorry for,
then tried to write it off as a joke and
finally trying to change the subject.
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John M
climber
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When you participate in an internet forum you are having a relationship with members of your community.
HFCS doesn't want to be part of anything. He just likes to argue. He will not answer your personal questions. He won't even explain why he won't answer. This is a game to him where he likes to feel superior.
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John M
climber
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Nice try HFCS I didn't stop talking to you because you were winning any arguments. I stopped talking to you because you are mostly heartless and I just don't have the energy or the time to deal with people like you anymore.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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The answer to the debate is probably simply that the soft-core ads in the margin which depend upon horny, impolitic, and often misogynist old men to place here and generate so much click-through revenue are worth more to the bottom line of this site than guidebooks.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Jun 10, 2014 - 07:31am PT
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locker, you are probably the least serious person on this entire forum. i LOL at a lot of your posts because you make it quite clear, to me.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 10, 2014 - 07:35am PT
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wait til u see the "mind" thread
The most incomprehensible thread on ST EVER!
At least the ladies have shown up in force for this thread, good stuff.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 10, 2014 - 08:26am PT
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PTC aka Part-Time Communist remains alive, but not quite well. She is in the hospital in Mammoth today having her busted knee fixed. She tore her ACL skiing two months ago, and they are going to fix it with a cadaver graft. Hopefully taken from another cute blonde... ;)
In the meantime, she sends her love to all the hot older guys at McTopo.
Here's to a speedy recovery for Daria, so that she can continue making solo first descents of canyons in the Inyos and Death Valley.
P.S. Sorry for the too-wide image making this post hard to read. If someone wants to resize to 700 pixels wide, upload and send me the link, I will edit. Having computer problems again. Think I once again cooked the motherboard by leaving my Dell laptop sitting on a couch so the cooling fans got blocked. Sheesh. Time for a new machine I reckon....
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matisse
climber
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Jun 10, 2014 - 09:21am PT
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HFCS,
you pass yourself off as a science type...so trot out your credentials buddy boy....
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 10, 2014 - 09:48am PT
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Hey timid
God bless brother.
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matisse
climber
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:18am PT
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On further reflection: as I might privately enjoy negative comments directed towards some posters, this debate is really about civility. Some of the woman have expressed a lack of civility towards then that keeps them from posting more, but it applies equally to both genders. So calling some male posters dicks isn't really any better, than the lack of civility towards women.
HFCS let me explain why I keep pressing you on your science qualifications. You called ST posters scientifically illiterate. For you I want to know professional or amateur. and what field.
Why? because I am never going spend a lot of time debating Ed H, for example, on certain aspects of physics. It would be a complete waste of my time. I'm a scientist but that doesn't give me expertise except in the few fields I know something about. So if you are a pro in human behavior gene environment interactions just say so. If not, and you have researched the topic extensively (not that hard these days with so much scientific content widely available) all you have to do is cite sources on which you are basing your information. and now i'll shut up about it.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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What I'd really like to know is who told you that I named IT, Major???...
It's supposed to be a secret..
baaaahahahaaaaaa VP tolded me!
And I defend my right to call locker a dick. I know he's not at all serious and how he would take it. I have other, much less pleasant things to say about anyone who suggests that a woman needs to be date raped. I may not care much for ptc's persona here but nobody deserves that.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 10, 2014 - 11:30am PT
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Melissa said
soft-core ads in the margin which depend upon horny, impolitic, and often misogynist old men to place here and generate so much click-through revenue are worth more to the bottom line of this site than guidebooks.
That's a very interesting observation. Presumably the algorithms that automatically compute which ads you see know she is female. (no, there' is no OZ behind the curtain, just humoungus computers running very clever pattern detection algorithms)
I get very few (if any) soft-core ads. Admittedly I seldom look at any of the margin ads. I've built a pretty good visual filter.
Have the algorithms figured out that in spite of being a "red blooded" Americun Male I don't get drawn by soft core ads?
Right now Bosch wants me to buy their drill bits.
I was always curious why PTC sent so many men here off kilter. Did she peel away their veneer of respectability? Did her out front attitude intimidate them?
Sure she was outre. Good on her.
Or did the women here find her offensive?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 10, 2014 - 12:14pm PT
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I'd like to hear the women's take on the whole PTC thing rather than a man's assumptions.
Seriously, ladies.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 10, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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Daria is the top troll
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 10, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
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The odds are good, but the goods are odd.
Bring on PTC! Nobody loves us old dudes the same, HA!
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 10, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
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Too bad Pete didn't post that pic when PTC was around.
She'd have easily found climbing partners.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 10, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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Happie.
Yep, very oldfashioned way of thinking. Some day they maybe will realise that humans are humans, notwithstanding gender. Maybe.
And as High Traverse said: it's so much more fun playing with equals.
High Fructose Corn Spirit, your first post about this said it all.
/one of the Spinsters
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 10, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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Equal in value but not identical in ability. For that matter, women have a higher value. That is why men go in trenches and mines and women get the first lifeboats.
I value women above men and that probably makes me sexist.
( hey HFCS and Locker, you guys are the noisy, angry know-it-alls shouting out digs and jabs but so obviously lonely, sad and insecure. School aged girls have been told "science and math are for boys, don't worry your pretty little head. You can go to college and get an MRS. Degree.) The inherent sexism in education leads to women not choosing math and science as a career. That's a sociological explanation. Your pseudo-scientific reasoning is just noise. ) Wisen up and loosen up. Your minds are trapped in some rigid and tedious ruts. It's not too late. You can do better.
Respect to the ladies here trying to edify the Silly Troll Gruffs. If I've disparaged you, I hope it was for your politics and not your gender. Peace out.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 10, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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Equal in value but not identical in ability.
Yes.
You being a sexist or not, maybe it's the men who has to evaluate that one. It does go both ways. :-)
Maybe this thread shows one thing, if nothing else...
the women on the Taco are no pussies. Don't tell us what we have to, or not. :-)
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 10, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
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Did I say sexist? I meant sexy.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jun 10, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
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Ladies: please ignore HCFS a troll who will not answer any questions is obviously not worth anyone's time.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 10, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
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Pretty funny to see a dude feel threatened by the oh-so-tyrannical gender-defenders...
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Jun 10, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
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Stinky said:She was chased off by some hideous old women offended by PTC's posting of sexy selfies. That whole feminist mindset thing really rears its ugly head when a cute girl posts here. Out come the claws (or hoofs)...
What a joke. If PTC cant hold her own and feels "chased off" by the generation of women that paved the road for her generation to be, and do whatever they want then she doesn't deserve to share that freeway with us. She can post any damn thing she wants but it was a mind bending generation of men and women that opened that window...and yep we are old.
As for "hideous"....are you that idiotic that you don't think you are seen right through???? "Gotta get me some attention"; just like a 3 year old that says "I hate you mommy". However if you actually do feel that is an accurate characterization then don't forget that means your Mom, your aunts, maybe older sister and the nurse that wields the big F'ing hypodermic needle for when you step on that rusty nail.
What a simple little mind you have.
Susan
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Avery
climber
NZ
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:24pm PT
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All the usual suspects you would expect to see on a thread like this are present.
A veritable roll call of comic singers and verbal diarrhea.
Don't your brains feel slightly undernourished when their world is centered around nonsense like this.
Oh God, I can see hope running towards the horizon with it's arse on fire.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:24pm PT
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I think coolrockclimberguy has hit precisely right with a diagnosis for HFCS of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I have that feeling I get when a narcissist has somehow sucked me into his vortex. The higher than thou attitude, the self-worship, the demeaning one line responses to genuine questions/points. Using intellect to dominate instead of enlighten. One never feels seen, heard or respected for ones differences after a debate with a narcissist. Lets write him off, my good women (and my good men), as interacting with him will never yield anything good for us.
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matisse
climber
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
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I must have missed the intellect part. I don't spend much time here.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jun 10, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
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Thanks matisse, i amend: "attempt to dominate"
Real intellect never needs to attempt a domination.
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matisse
climber
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Jun 10, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
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Surely if we are going to debate science we can cite something other than you tube videos.
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matisse
climber
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Jun 10, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
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Just infotainment.
No science
Edited to add: you did ask Daphne to provide facts.but now it is not a science debate?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jun 10, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
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There you go Bud. Now you're playing the game. You don't have to be credentialed to post here but it sure helps if people know where you're coming from.
I see your point too, but you come off like a bull in a china shop, so what you're saying isn't really clicking here bro.
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granite_girl
Trad climber
Oakland
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:04am PT
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I haven't read much of this thread, because overall it seems pretty mean-spirited. I just wanted to say that those of you who have posted pictures of women in skimpy clothing, attractive or not, friends or not, on a thread about how women don't feel welcomed on Supertopo, are contributing to the problem. Those pictures are a huge disincentive for the majority of woman to want to post here, even if stuff like that doesn't bother all women.
If I wanted to look at half-naked women, I'd go to a porn site. Please don't clutter my climbing forum with it.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 11, 2014 - 04:05am PT
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But, budd, that's your problem.
who said he had a problem?
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 11, 2014 - 05:46am PT
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:18am PT
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Locker is up to 36 posts on this thread. That's more than 1 out of 7. His format is as useless as his content. Selfish noisemaker. Sad wanker. Get a life.
37
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:23am PT
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I know plenty of women with balls.. more so than the whiny, pussy men out there
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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And I'm chilling with my son who loves me.
Btw licker, you're taking money but you're just making noise. If you're posting this much at work then you are likely stealing money. You do know what wanking is, right?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:32am PT
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Dear Granite-girl,
I removed my offending early post of half clad women. One of them was a dead serious climber woman, and the other a mere model of some sort. My post was not meant to offend, it was a tip of the hat to real, strong climbing women.
I have been guilty numerous times of posting less than burqua clad women. I would hope this wouldn't be confused with any disrespect. I have much respect for strong women, opinionated women, smart women, athletic women and women women.
I do however also appreciate attractive women dressed in less than full winter storm gear too.
As an apology I hereby offer an objectifying photo of my-own-self-half-clad. Cheers.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:37am PT
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NEWSFLASH!!!...
Woman don't have balls...
yes locker.. figuratively speaking. if a woman has balls then we have a slight problem.
survival: how about a recent picture? I'm all for objectifying men. I don't think there's enough of that going on, especially on a sausage-fest forum like this one.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:40am PT
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Survival, is it weird that I'm a little turned on?
Nah, it's cool brah, just save it for your new boss!
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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Why do people say "grow some balls"? ... If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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Locker, if you want "women" with balls, go the the Bambi Club in TJ. They have those kind of "women" there.
From what I've seen (been there for 2 kids births) women have plenty of "guts". It's just a matter of what their determination is focused on. If it's climbing, LOOK OUT.
edit; LOL!!! "those things can take a pounding". Where in Hell did you get THAT quote from?
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:51am PT
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bird chest.. lol
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:53am PT
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only if you throw in some wet hairy abs IRL
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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Take those feathers off and POST UP!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
|
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:01am PT
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SC, thanks for confirming everything in my earlier post. Ptc was ganged up on for posting photos, but a gang of old coots who felt threatened. Was there another reason why sully, happy girl, ekat, legs , etc all busted her balls?
I busted her balls? Really??? What I DID write was that she ought consider postings which included her legal name, as she was fresh out of school and beginning her career. Newsflash: Hirers, especially in the field she is entering, are likely to Google the names of prospects. Some of the things she was posting had very real potential for affecting her chances for interviews.
I do however also appreciate attractive women dressed in less than full winter storm gear too.
It seems that some people here are reading "you must not notice(attractive women)" with when what is being written is "it is offensive to objectify women." Posting images of women with the purpose of the image being a focus on them as an object is quite different than posting a picture of a woman which focuses on her ability.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:03am PT
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For you, here is recent Anita.
Not objectifying enough though I'm afraid.....sorry.
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:17am PT
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The CNN comments section, now with more butt hurt
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John M
climber
|
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:19am PT
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Posting images of women with the purpose of the image being a focus on them as an object is quite different than posting a picture of a woman which focuses on her ability.
I think its more complicated then that. I think one can appreciate someone's physical beauty without turning them into an object. I love looking at beautiful women. At the same time I recognize that they are more then just their physical beauty. They are a person and that should be respected.
So if I post a picture of a woman because I think.."wow.. she is hot". Is that objectifying her?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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I thought Lassie is a female collie, but was played by males. I guess they were lucky collies have long hair.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:34am PT
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I think I see the problem. Men WANT to be objectified.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:38am PT
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She is one of maybe 2 women that make me laugh,
Hawk, I'm curious why it could be that only two women make you laugh?
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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A lickerism: Like a 3 year old, he stands in the middle of the room flinging his poo while shouting 'look at me!" " look at me". He is a sh#t stain that pollutes the Supertopo with his lazy mind and childish selfishness."
Then he cries " why are you picking on me?".
Isn't 59 years of being a crybaby enough?
Licker. Still crying for his mammas tit. No seas mamón!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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So if I post a picture of a woman because I think.."wow.. she is hot". Is that objectifying her?
Posting a picture of a woman knowing that the response is going to be comments about her "value" being in her beauty or "hotness" - Yes, it is objectifying.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:11am PT
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Yes, it is objectifying.
I don't see how it could not be objectifying
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John M
climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:17am PT
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then I guess we are going to have to be okay with a certain amount of objectifying, because some women like to look hot and most men like looking at them. And vice versus, though admittedly not as much.
Are you saying all objectification is bad?
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stunewberry
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:23am PT
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There are two ways men are physiologically superior to women:
1. Peeing in the woods.
2. Peeing in gas stations.
That's it.
Edit: perhaps better to say "have a physiological advantage"
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:26am PT
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So it all boils down to, say what you will but we can pee standing up. It's not much, but I'll take it! Even my wife is envious of this.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:29am PT
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some women like to look hot and most men like looking at them.
But does one need to post pictures to appreciate an attractive person?
No... The posting pictures is to "pass her around" to your buddies.
I spent two years on and off hanging around with a male friend who is a "10" on the 1-10 attractiveness scale by pretty much anyone who saw him. Not only that, he is beautiful inside - kind, considerate, polite, smart, sophisticated, good sense of humor, intelligent, and it seems he is also fairly well to do. The whole package, so to speak.
It would never - NEVER - occur to me to post pictures of this man online as if I was dangling a bauble for others to admire. It would be insulting to him as a human being, to present him s worth something only because of his beauty.
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John M
climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:46am PT
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It would be insulting to him as a human being, to present him s worth something only because of his beauty.
You appear to be saying that one should never post a picture of someone simply because we think that person is attractive. Is that true? I think that I get where you are going Terri, but you also appear to be saying that we can never celebrate a persons physical beauty. You also seem to be saying that if I post a picture of someone because I see that person as beautiful and want to share that beauty with others, then that is also saying that I don't recognize that there is more to a person then their physical features.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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I am fairly certain that I would never take a picture of a person who I didn't know because I thought they were attractive.
I suppose I might take a picture of a person with some amount of fame, like a president of a country, the Pope, a (musician) rock star...though living 20 years in NYC and seeing famous people quite regularly I never felt inclined to take a picture of them.
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John M
climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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Gotta run. I think more needs to be said on this subject as I'm not sure that I understand Happigirl's point, but I have to go. So forgive me if I don't answer right away.
For now..
I have never taken a picture of a person just because I thought that they were attractive, but I have posted pictures that I took from the internet of people that I thought were attractive. I fully appreciate that there is more to a person then the physical, but at this point I fail to see how sharing pictures of attractive people is 100 percent wrong. The way I see it is that there is a line of decency. The problem is that that line is different for everyone.
Is Legg's objectifying herself when she posts selfies that focus on her attractiveness? Sometimes she posts selfies that focus on a climb, or a place or an activity that shows more of her personality, but sometimes she posts pics that focus on her beauty. Is that objectification and is that wrong? If I appreciated her beauty without knowing her would that be wrong ?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 11, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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The whole objectifying vs appreciating conundrum.
So much depends on the personalities of the observer and the observed.
I think there are also differences due to the way the photo is posed (or not)
I see a lot of women's pics on climbing magazine covers that I consider objectifying.
The classic pic of Lynn Hill high on the Nose in short sleeved shirt and shorts I think is not objectifying. We can be pretty certain she didn't dress for the photo and we know she approved of it's publication. I'd love to know her take on that pic so many years later.
And she is pretty "hot" in that pic. It's the beauty of a strong, fit human pushing her limits which are WAY beyond mine. Pushing everyone's limits. Like an Olympic runner or rower, male or female.
It's also true that it raises different emotions for me whether it's Lynn Hill or Dale Bard. There's the beauty of it in both cases but Dale isn't "hot" to me.
So am I objectifying Lynn? Dale? both? neither?
In the end is how you behave towards people.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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Well said High Traverse.
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granite_girl
Trad climber
Oakland
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Jun 11, 2014 - 11:50am PT
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Thanks for deleting your picture, Survival. I wish others would do the same for this particular thread. And the photos of the hot "climber" dudes that were posted are definitely hilarious.
So, here's the thing, if y'all want to have threads with half-naked women, well, this is the internet, so as long as it's ok with the site owner (CMac), go for it. But out of respect for those of us who don't like looking at that sort of thing while thinking about climbing, please keep it out of the other threads. And especially keep it out of threads talking about why women avoid supertopo. The contradiction is too hard to take.
Anyway, I've said my piece, now carry on.
Edited to add: Survival, I meant to say that I really like the photos you posted on the first page of this thread. Those women are all clearly people first. They are attractive not because of how they look, but because of who they are and what they do. Bring on more like that!
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 11, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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What's up with the naked climbers, Dingus? I assume you want to say something with them, but I'm not sure what, as it could be several different things.
I understand what you, John M, and others are saying. It's not really all that easy. I don't mind nudity and I like beauty. I like looking at men, (even though photos of men doesn't do anything for me). I don't mind photos of naked people climbing for instance, even if my only reaction so far has been that they mostly look so artificial and god, how I would hate to scratch MY breasts against rock like that. There's arty photos of nudity which are absolutely great.
I have other objections than the images, even if I do have objections against the other kind of images and how they pop up in places where they have no place to be. When I cannot choose if I want to see a photoshopped pouting Lolita pulling at her panties while I read about something interesting. Those are not about someone liking an attractive body, those are meant to be degrading and intimating, telling women to stay put in their place. Like rape is not about sex, it's about power. It's a message.
What I object against is the, not only patronising, but downright brutal attitude from some members whose comments show a view towards the female half of the population that we're not really humans, we're supposed to be one way just to please him. When comments are derogatory purely because it's about women. It's the final fight for white men's supremacy. But as I see it, real men secure in themselves don't have that need to put down women to feel better themselves.
Both women and men comes in all kinds, as#@&%es and angels. And everything in between. That's what it boils down to, in a community like Supertopo, people. Persons. Not gender, not colour or creed or anything.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
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Mmmm
Nice pics Dingus...wherever do you find them?
Interested Ladies want to know!
hehehehe, after those pics, I have no idea what this thread was for...
:)
Cheers
LS
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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hehehehe, after those pics, I have no idea what this thread was for...
Yes I had almost forgotten this was a silly copycat thread title play on words thread based on Avery's lack of class thread.
It was supposed to be a joke.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Jun 11, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 11, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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Scary, huh?
Serious people! What an affront.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
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Lollie
What I object against is the, not only patronising, but downright brutal attitude from some members whose comments show a view towards the female half of the population that we're not really humans, we're supposed to be one way just to please him. When comments are derogatory purely because it's about women. It's the final fight for white men's supremacy. But as I see it, real men secure in themselves don't have that need to put down women to feel better themselves.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 11, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 11, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
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"It's the final fight for white men's supremacy"...
Interesting to me that RACE has been brought into the equation...
Try to hold the Taco to a standard of logic and fact and you'll be disappointed every time.
LOL!!!!
Ain't that the truth...
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granite_girl
Trad climber
Oakland
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
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Great photo, Cowboy! Your climbing partner looks like an awesome person! She's climbing barefoot while hanging out with her toddler in a beautiful place. I hope I can be as cool as her if I have kids.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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The thread is shrinking.
Must be the heat!
That's a weird thing to say; I usually shrink in the cold.
But back to climbing lasses, here are a couple I'm rather fond of:
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:48pm PT
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Whatever happens on Supertopo, there is no lack of lass in my life.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 12, 2014 - 12:43am PT
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Center of the Universe! Oh, where have you been.
A very cool place to be, for sure!
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 12, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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I spent two years on and off hanging around with a male friend who is a "10" on the 1-10 attractiveness scale by pretty much anyone who saw him. Not only that, he is beautiful inside - kind, considerate, polite, smart, sophisticated, good sense of humor, intelligent, and it seems he is also fairly well to do. The whole package, so to speak.
It would never - NEVER - occur to me to post pictures of this man online as if I was dangling a bauble for others to admire. It would be insulting to him as a human being, to present him s worth something only because of his beauty.
Article and pic, or maybe you're just selfish :) And poor choice of terminology to make a point about non-objectifying.
As for being valued "only because of his beauty". Yes, what is really of value? What was said above along with loyalty, devotion, honesty...the good stuff
According to a 2011 Newsweek report, women are more likely to be assaulted by a fellow soldier than killed in combat.[8]
A substantial increase in reported sexual assaults was reported at the 3 U.S. military academies for the school year 2010 to 2011. It is possible that the increase resulted only from increased willingness to report incidents; increased reporting has been one of the goals of the Department of Defense.[9]
In September 2013, Congress received the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2013 Statutory Enforcement Report.[10] The report found that during the 2012 fiscal year, there were 3,374 reports of sexual assault on military service members. 816 of these were not included in the commission report because they were confidential, restricted and not investigated. The report indicated that commanders are increasingly likely to refer sexual assault cases to court martial compared to the prior 4 years. In 15% of cases the accused perpetrator was permitted to resign or be discharge in lieu of court-martial.
The same commission report included the results of an anonymous survey of military personnel in which 23 percent of women and 4 percent of men reported experiencing unwanted sexual contact since enlistment. Based on this survey, the Department of Defense estimated that 26,000 service members experienced some form of unwanted sexual contact, from groping to rape, in the year 2012. 34 percent of women and 24 percent of men who reported these events in the anonymous survey stated that they had reported the event to authorities.
According to the USCCR report, a 2010 survey conducted by the Department of Defense found that 54 percent of women and 27 percent of men did not report because they feared retaliation; 47 percent of women and 20 percent of men did not report because they had heard other victims had a negative experience after reporting.
Current reality of our society. Having daughters myself, one who has expressed interest in military service, I would appreciate hearing from the women and men about why this is rampart and how to correct it.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Jun 12, 2014 - 09:40am PT
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I need to think on how best to answer that, but I will.
edit: quick answer, watch The Invisible War.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 12, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
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"The Invisible War"
Described as " Shocking Haunting Heartbreaking Shattering Exceptional
Unforgettable "See this Oscar-nominated, investigative documentary about the most shameful and best-kept secret in the U.S. military: an epidemic of rape ...
Thanks, I definitely will have to see it.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jun 12, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
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I am heartened by the serious questions posed by some of you men to the women of supertopo.
Why do you need to share your appreciation of the female body here or anywhere on the internet? On Tuesday, at the climbing gym, I was entranced by a young male climber. I am old enough to be his mother and that didn't stop me from a deep appreciation of his beauty. [Srsly, he was hot!) But I had no desire to take a photo and post it to the internet. From whence comes this need to share your stoke?
I think there is something about the sharing of the image that contributes to objectification. I am not sure of this, this isn't a fully baked idea, but I throw it out.
I think Michelle, with her experience as a soldier, is the perfect person to respond to the question about rape in the armed services.
I had this article bookmarked and I think this is an appropriate place for it.
How to Criticize with Kindness: Philosopher Daniel Dennett on the Four Steps to Arguing Intelligently
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2014/03/28/daniel-dennett-rapoport-rules-criticism
One teacher I know points out that we women will spend less than 5 minutes conversing to another person in a checkout line and feel we are in a relationship with that person. My current understanding is the majority of men don't feel that way. We women tend to reach out to the humanity of another and connect. The best part of supertopo for me is the power of the internet to connect me to people. I have met two of my dearest friends of my life, Jaybro and Phylp, here.
Phyl, early in this thread, commented on the lack of kindness here. I think the above article is such a good way of addressing this very pertinent issue.
I've given a great deal of thought to my reactivity around High Fructose Corn Syrup. He had some very good points and we could have had such an interesting discussion. But his lack of kindness prevented this. I am glad he took his toys and went home.
and now I sleep and rise to finish the homework I have been procrastinating on doing...
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:20am PT
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FACT: I had female friend the other day tell me that all women sit around and talk about the size of their male acquaintances' JOHNSONS
They did???!!? OMG!!!
Your women aquintainces do that! Sit around and compare. My.
But... but... you know.... that means they compared yours too! To other men too!
Does it worry you? Is it small or crooked or have any of the other common features which doesn't fit the norm of perfect?
Hehe.
Welcome to the world of women. We're constantly appraised like that, but publicly. Not in private talks.
(On the other hand, I think you just made that up. ;-) )
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:26am PT
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Ghost.
Nice pics!
:-)
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 13, 2014 - 06:23am PT
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Does it worry you? Is it small or crooked or have any of the other common features which doesn't fit the norm of perfect?
That is so insensitive. Have a heart.
Will there be an outpouring of response from brave little men?
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 07:01am PT
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Daphne, what wonderful posts from you on this thread. From many others too. What shining points of light piercing through the muck.
Forgive me that I have not contributed more, but I am up in Mammoth climbing and have not had the time to read through everything. Plus I just have this little phone to type on - not that conducive to posting.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 13, 2014 - 07:16am PT
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conversing to another person
Instead of conversing AT another person.
It seems the military was ill prepared (or unwilling) to handle sexual conduct. They didn't get the memo.
Regarding men, I simply want to tell my daughters to look for intelligent life. It isn't that simple, so be careful of human nature and look for a guy that has a job, but then all those rapists in the military were employed...
So girls, be smart, try to make good choices, some will be tough choices. Respect life and don't take sh#t. In other words,if you are both working, split the household chores.
One of my daughters was working and her man wasn't for a while. His Mama had done all the "traditional" chores, so the floors weren't swept, the sink was full of dirty dishes... He had to be educated(and threatened a little) He did get the message and she decided to keep him around. I even kinda like him too. ;)
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Jun 13, 2014 - 07:26am PT
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Evil photographers, objectifying women. . .Its about intent for me, and respect for the people, both men and women that you make your Art with. . .df
Edit, I agree, lets burn one, but not my meat. .
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 09:35am PT
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Locker makes a presumptuous and arrogant assumption that one must comment on something simply because one belong to a certain gender. So much for understanding what this thread has been about.
It's quite enough that he postes about everything everywhere all the time.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 09:52am PT
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Stinks like Licker in here. No good thread untainted.
Licker is up to 20% of total posts on this thread. I can't imagine that he has any women in his life. What a sad sad old baby.
( licker, the reason that no one answers your questions is because you are mostly disingenuous and selfish. Yours is a one-way rant. Don't confuse your own voice with a conversation.) Your MO of bold, spaces, caps, insults and a passive aggressive Lol is tiring. Aren't you tired of your own humorless MO yet? There's a question for you.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jun 13, 2014 - 09:53am PT
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After my last post I realized I had forgotten to comment on the beautiful photo of someone's girlfriend climbing at sunset with her child on a rock, his little arms raised in exaltation. There are lots of similar photos here, of women and men climbing, where I think, "that is beautiful", not "beauty" that titillates, but beauty that inspires. He has taken it down, and I am sad about that.
Dingus, thanks for the analysis. You are right.
But there are them that post such pics to demean, ridicule and dominate. I would suggest most of the issue taken with the posting of such images falls to the 2nd group.
The photos that inspire me aren't in the category that demeans, ridicules or dominates.
To post a photo with the goal of titillating each other (sexually, I love the climbing photos that titillate me to wanting to climb) instead of inspiring each other, are the ones that demean.
And Bullwinkle, your photos inspire me.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jun 13, 2014 - 09:54am PT
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Locker, you must know that your trolling has a sharp edge to it. Your sense of humor can draw blood.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 09:56am PT
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Yes, Dingus... I thought he was. That's why I didn't answer first. :-)
Yes, locker, be you. One cannot be like everyone else anyway.
But you got your answer. It's like asking "why don't the men comment on Bullwinkle's stonenudes"? The answer is naturally that everyone won't, and every man is different, some have opinions about it and some don't. What's the difference?
Besides Dingus has already answered your question. It has already been discussed previous years.
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matisse
climber
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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I'll answer you locker. I imagine that you will get as many opinions as there are women that will post a response. In my other life I am an painter and I also paint nudes. The stone nudes are art, and I appreciate them as such. The stone nude photos I have seen are beautiful. That differs from a lot of the pictures of women posted on the taco that clearly have a different intent, however much their posters may try to pass them off as art.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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I was wondering if it were possible for Locker to not share his opinion on some subject, any subject? Not that that's a bad thing...
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matisse
climber
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:08am PT
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I like locker. He is our court jester.
edited to add that I think it is a reasonable question given our discussion here...
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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I'm offended by the Stone Nudes.
they should be banned.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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Ah, namecalling. Did I get your goat, locker? :-D
Good.
Sometimes you really get mine.
LOL.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:41am PT
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I see.
Ok. I think his photos are art.
Edit:
I am sure. Dingus is not a woman.
He has too hairy legs.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:47am PT
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Why no comments from the ladies on the Stone Nudes???...Porn???...Art???...Objectifyling???...Acceptable/unacceptable???...???...
Cause.......
Ready
I don't care.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 11:14am PT
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You're absolutely right, Jim.
It is so.
I've counted the hairs on my legs. Unshaved, I have 23 hairs on one leg and 37 on the other. And as you surely know, being a woman I always have myself as a reference to everything.
(Yes, I'm joking - in one of the sentences above. You have to guess which one.)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 13, 2014 - 11:22am PT
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Two, too hairy legs....
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Stinks like Licker in here. No good thread untainted.
Licker is up to 20% of total posts on this thread. I can't imagine that he has any women in his life. What a sad sad old baby.
( licker, the reason that no one answers your questions is because you are mostly disingenuous and selfish. Yours is a one-way rant. Don't confuse your own voice with a conversation.) Your MO of bold, spaces, caps, insults and a passive aggressive Lol is tiring. Aren't you tired of your own humorless MO yet? There's a question for you.
LOL. This guy is pretty funny!
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jun 13, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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drljefe, there seems to be a pretty solid consensus among the women of st as to what is ok in terms of images presented here. More than a simple majority, in fact.
for gods sake I have GOT to get to my homework! This thread is like a drug for my procrastination habit. much love to all, I am gone :)
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
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are there any crazy/far out misbehaved chicks on here? seems like all the women who post here are so refined, well composed, logical, calm, systematic, etc.
like, if there was a chick on here who acted as silly as locker, it would not be tolerated!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
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Lets just try and be respectful without getting all f*#kin Victorian.
Word
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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are there any crazy/far out misbehaved chicks on here? seems like all the women who post here are so refined, well composed, logical, calm, systematic, etc.
You're being facetious - right?
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
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posting hot non-pornographic photos of real women in real time on here, not pics taken from the internet, is the ultimate troll because it riles men up so much because sex appeal has everything to do with power.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 13, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
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because sex appeal has everything to do with power
Maybe you should choose different people to date? If that's been your experience that's sad. Not saying that to be a dick at all.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
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Thanks eKat - if she can fill rockjox shoes that's impressive!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
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if she can fill rockjox shoes that's impressive!
Rokjox wasn't a troll at all. He was the guy that always got trolled. All you had to do if you were bored was drop some casual reference to a wolf into a post and he'd go on a days-long rant. Ditto if you said anything about California.
And do you remember the first Weld_It posts? RJ took them as real and got all wound up. He was probably the easiest person to troll on ST.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
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I miss Weld-it!
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
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eKat...this one is for you, and to my fans!
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Binks
climber
Uranus
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:30pm PT
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because they are back home, cooking and cleaning? the mens are all too tough, rough, and crude for them... they need to STAY HOME
where is BURT BRONSON?
the reason WOMEN STAYED HOME
was probably because they would eventually turn every place into a KINDERGARTEN
where men couldn't any longer be themselves, because it wasn't POLITE enough for them
jk jk jk... ;)
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
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Dr. F can't tell a microphone from a vibrator. Wonder what what that says about him?
Worse, what does it say about me?
PTC, I always found you rather amusing. Especially your nick. Troll or not Troll, that is the question
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
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PTC, I always found you rather amusing. Especially your nick. Troll or not Troll, that is the question
why would people think I am a troll?? Here I am in the flesh.
Would love to meet more supertopo peeps, there is lots of fun to be had on the east side like inner tubing down the Owens River! Are there any supertopo member gatherings?? Maybe then I can prove that I am not a troll once and for all.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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you might not be too late to sign up for Facelift.
Many of the SuperTopo pervs will be there.
And many of the ST ladies as well.
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
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this is my current status. This one is as sexy as it gets!
Any of you handsome doods have a fetish for chicks on crutches???
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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I like daisy dukes , Karl Marx and long walks in the moonlight.
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
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Take pity on the cripple
my brain... well, I'm brain dead right now in a norco-induced daze
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 13, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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my brain... well, I'm brain dead right now in a norco-induced daze
Um if you were on Norco you wouldn't be doing rehab.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 13, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
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This is such a weird place. Waiting patiently for the kiwi to show up.
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Jun 13, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
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Dr. F can't tell a microphone from a vibrator.
Hmm. Someone can't
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matisse
climber
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Jun 13, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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because sex appeal has everything to do with power
Maybe you should choose different people to date? If that's been your experience that's sad. Not saying that to be a dick at all.
Kinda my thoughts.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 13, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
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Braunini
Dyammmm you got me! Guess I spend too much time working with electronic stuff and not enough time in the Walmart catalog.
Unlike you and Dr F
bloody hellllll, I shouldn't try posting while working
adios
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Jun 13, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
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not enough time in the Walmart catalog.
that cuts deep man
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
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This is such a weird place. Waiting patiently for the kiwi to show up.
it only took 30 minutes.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jun 13, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
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did she just rub one out with that vibrator on the floor???
She probably doesn't stop at just one . . . looking good PTC! You should probably clean up that room.
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
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thanks for the compliments!
Crutching around on crutches for 2 straight months evidently does a body good!
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
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Now I'm picturing the SuperTipi Hot and Gimpy Girls in a leg wrestling match. What's wrong with my mind?
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 13, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
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I want an angry lovechild out of this crazy-nut soup. Damn sure.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 07:44pm PT
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Heheh. Good one BraveCowboy.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:06pm PT
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What the f()ck is going on here?
What happened to locker?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 13, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
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Blow this sh#t up Stewart!!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 13, 2014 - 11:19pm PT
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^^^^
Yup.
Pretty insipid.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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Jun 13, 2014 - 11:21pm PT
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You know, I was out today actually climbing and considering how I might address the question posed regarding my military service and MST (Military Sexual Trauma). I come back online to more bs, rendering anything I had hoped to communicate irrelevant. No big deal really. Anyone interested can pm me but disclosing my personal experience here at this point won't be happening. Little too immature.
I'm also glad df can make a living doing what he does. I don't care bc it doesn't bother me.
Of course, the big head Tom Jones is freaking hysterical!!
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 14, 2014 - 11:50am PT
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Are we cynical today, eh?
Ok, I'm game.
Ouch. It did hurt to pinch myself. I'm real.
What about you?
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John M
climber
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Jun 14, 2014 - 11:53am PT
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I hurt, therefore I am
Joe DePlumbers
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 14, 2014 - 11:54am PT
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the stitches on my knee looked pretty surreal when I cleaned the wound today....maybe this is not real
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 14, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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Real, for real.
L will pm you M. thanks.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 14, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
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Oh, my personality trait on Supertopo is the same as in real life. WYSWYG.
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 14, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
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a profound lack of love for the self...and we get down to the bottom of kiwi's most fundamental problem.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 14, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 14, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Kiwi would have scored a D+ for his seduction skills. The + for effort.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 14, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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Summit of Fallen Rock, today
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 14, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Jun 14, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 14, 2014 - 07:55pm PT
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That brave cowboy got it going on....
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 14, 2014 - 08:03pm PT
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BraveCowboy , that chimney shot is great and inspiring.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Jun 15, 2014 - 02:32am PT
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beautiful colour of the rock, brave cowboy
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| Messages 1 - 234 of total 234 in this topic |
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