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pjschlick
Social climber
Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2014 - 05:42pm PT
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Hi folks,
I am looking for climbers, YOSAR search and rescue personnel, or witnesses who happened to be in Yosemite when three climbers fell from El Capitan during a rappel off of the nose route on May 14,1978. I was there climbing, and I may have spoken with some of you. They were friends from my hometown, and I am now writing a book that includes the accident.
Thanks for your help!
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The Call Of K2 Lou
Mountain climber
North Shore, BC
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I was really hoping this was about a piece of missing gear.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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John Dill ran YOSAR then and still does.
He investigated the accident extensively, so you should interview him
if you haven't already.
See this thread where we discussed details of the accident:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=33809
I heard at a party once that one of the victims' families sued the NPS over the anchor failure. (This wouldn't work because the NPS does not maintain the climbing anchors). But John Dill said he had never heard this, and he would probably have heard if it was true.
I also know that Tom Rohrer, who placed the anchor where the hanger failed, went to the base and saw the bodies. It wasn't pretty.
Bottom lines on the hanger failure:
1. It was a Dolt, which was considered state of the art at the time.
But the metal was too brittle, and it had a hairline crack.
2. The 3 guys clipped the anchor in a non-redundant way, so that if either bolt or hanger failed, they would go the distance, and this happened.
3. Some people have said they dropped the haulbag, which shock loaded the anchor. But I am not sure about that.
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WBraun
climber
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You were chatting with Mike Graham and me can't remember if there was anyone else in the conversation at that point in time.
Then suddenly someone says some climbers just fell off El Cap to the base.
You immediately mentioned "My boyfriend is up there right now".
I asked you when they started and you gave some answer to us that gave us a clue
to where on the wall they would be according to their start day.
We then went down to El Cap and Mike and I went to the base.
Mike went over to where the bodies were and confirmed it was your boyfriends team.
Then the mood became very grim for you.
Mike stayed with you for a while and I left you both.
I remember this terrible tragedy like yesterday.
You should contact Mike (Gramicci) Graham at http://www.gramicci.com/gramicci_defined
Best wishes .....
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Dick Shockley wrote in 1980 for Ascent Magazine "Cruising Up the Salathe Wall"
and refers to the tragedy.
pjschlick- Are you the Pam mentioned in the article?
Shockley was at the base of El Cap at the time but he did not witness the accident.
Good luck in your search..
Edit: Werner answered my question simultaneously.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Isn't mike Graham's email address @ stonemaster, not @gramicci?
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Pam,
On that day, I was walking up to El Capitan with Dick Shockley and Karl Mueller. Dick and I were on our way to fix the first pitches of the Salathe. Karl was hoping to do the Nose later that week.
I noticed climbers on the Nose and pointed this out to my friends, but after realizing that the climbers were to the left of the route, I concluded that they must be descending on the recently-established rappel route. So we put our heads down and started walking again.
A moment later, we were startled to hear the whistling sound of something falling. Although we were a hundred yards or so away from the wall,it was so loud that we all flinched and stepped back.
I found another gap in the trees and looked up toward the climbers on the Nose. It took me several seconds to locate the familiar landmarks of the route and another couple of seconds to verify: there was nothing at the exact place where I had seen them just a minute ago. Then I noticed a dark jacket or tarp slowly wafting down the wall below where I saw them and this confirmed what had happened.
I will never forget the feeling: like a punch in the gut.
Dick wrote about this in his account of our climb of the Salathe; his article is here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1789821&msg=2347827#msg2347827
My belated condolences for your loss. You can contact me by sending a private message through Supertopo.
Rick
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Dave Hough
climber
Keene, NY
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I was in a campsite next to these climbers and briefly enjoyed their company. Bull sessions, shared food and drink, campfires, etc. It was a gut wrenching loss that has stuck with me all these years.
Regards, Dave
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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I was there and chatted with them the morning they headed up on the Nose. So sad.
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pjschlick
Social climber
Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
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Hey everyone,
As I sift through these posts and background postings from years ago, I'm overwhelmed with emotion over the people who were there and remember. Back in 1978,after the initial trauma, I was obsessed with the hangers, the metallurgy testing and why were they coming down. We surmised a couple of things- 1) They wanted to climb it faster than they were going. It was day three when they fell. They wanted to be done well within 5 days and it wasn't happening. 2)We thought someone might have been hurt but to my knowledge, we didn't have anything to back that up. Not even pictures we had developed that survived the fall gave us any clue.
Okay, I read Shockley's well written "Salathe" story and yes, I'm that Pam,(never saw it before) however, we had another friend with us from Minneapolis named Pat Padden.I was the only one left in that camp-true, but Pat slept in his van. Mike stayed with me until Pat came off a climb later that day. I wasn't alone, it was surreal to say the least. Pat and I had to drive all their stuff back to Minnesota which sucked. While I appreciate the sentiment,how ironic to be known as "poor Pam," rather than "awesome climber Pam," which is who I wanted to be, looking back. I was supposed to be there until August. I lost my edge after that accident, hyperventilating on a lead like a sissy...
Werner, it is amazing how you and I remember the details almost exactly the same. That's unusual after 37 years. Must be our good,clean living! Yes, I'll look Mike up. I knew how hard it was for him to go up there. He knew John, Jeff and John too. I believe his girlfriend was from Minneapolis? I didn't know he saw their bodies- I will never forget you, him and the mysterious guy on a beat up bicycle who offered me a cigarette and was showing me some prototypes of "friends?"
I contacted John Dill yesterday- Its how I learned about this website. I will get all the info from him that he has. Yes, it was a dolt hanger,It was hydrogen embrittlement- yes, the bolts/hangers were vertically placed. I just wish I knew why they flubbed up the back up.
I have never forgotten these terrific, brutally interrupted guys, especially John Garton. I have sons their age now. Thank you for the posts! I may throw some questions out there if I come across something else. I have plenty here to digest- Incidently, the climbing pictures of El Cap- oh man, I still love that beautiful monster!! I forgive him.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Pam I'm sorry for your loss but I'm glad you stumbled onto Supertopo. Its amazing how many guys from that era are on here and I hope your connections with these guys/gals are rich ones for your project and life in general. I look forward to your book. Keep us posted.
Scott
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Pam I started climbing in 1977 and I knew the three guys from the local climbing shop. I used to think of them as the guys from Bloomington.
A memory that sticks in my mind is talking to one of them and the Who's "Baba O' Riley was playing and I recall how much he enjoyed the music and how full of life he was.
For another slice of the Minnesota scene check out the thread I started on Jan Ebeltof:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/387465/Jan-Ebeltof
Jan E. was another employee of Midwest Mt. as was Pat Padden but Pat P was the last standing zen hippie climber in Minnesota
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spudman
Trad climber
hailey, idaho
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I was in Yosemite spring of 78. Myself and several buddies shared our Camp 4 site that spring with John, John and Jeff. I had camped with these guys the previous spring and fall. I remember them being from Minn. or some place you don't normally associate with climbing. Two of them, maybe all 3 worked in an outdoor shop. They always had the latest and coolest gear. Being a dirtbag I always coveted all their new stuff. They were fairly timid and careful climbers. Very safe and methodical, they were working their way up through the grades like most of us. The goal for the spring was the Nose. They had done several Grade 4 and 5 climbs to prepare and had no problems. Chouinard/Herbert and the south face of Washington Column and I think they had even climbed Half Dome. I started climbing in the Valley in 76 so I was a couple of seasons ahead of them in terms of routes done and experience. They were always pumping us for info on climbs. We gave them a lot of sh#t and in a good humored way.
As they prepared for the Nose they actually wrote out wills leaving us some of their gear we envied. " Hey John, can I have your tent?" Sure, anything else? All in a joking way of course. We figured they would have no problem on the route, just a little slow.
They eventually headed up and my buddies and I continued doing free climbs around the Valley and checked on them daily to follow their progress. They were moving along fine no bad weather nothing unusual.
Hitching back to camp from a climb we heard a rumor,"A party of three fell off the Nose" That sick feeling hit my gut but their were multiple parties on the route but I just knew. Back at camp the rangers were packing up all their gear. Pam( I think) was there and I don't really remember much else.
I do remember heading across the road to sneak a shower and just coming unglued,sobbing, a mixture of sadness and horror coming from a place in me I didn't know existed. I think I puked too. My first brush with death, I was 21. I think I imagined their final few seconds 1000's of times in the next few months. 3 young people like me, haul bags, ropes, ragdolling down 2000 ft. of granite.
I took a break from the Valley for a week.Came back to continue climbing but my heart wasn't in it the rest of that spring. I still think of them sometimes.
Reid Dowdle
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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I was on NA Wall and saw the team of 3 retreating off the Nose. I was belaying in slings and watched them for a while before I began to clean. I took a look a bit later and didn't see them any longer. I found out about the accident when we topped out. 3 guys from Minnesota if I remember right.
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Gagner
climber
Boulder
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I have a slide somewhere from the day before from the clearing hiking up to the Nose. You can clearly see all three of the guys on the route.....that was an unfortunate event, condolences
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pjschlick
Social climber
Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 11:04am PT
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Spudman, Gagner, Hobo_dan, Marty,
Thank you for your posts- I sent a thread to your link Hobo.
Spudman, Thank you for your in depth description of that day for you. I was pretty much in the same space as you. I am sorry that we couldn't have been in touch to talk. I know it must have been hard for you.
John and John lived in Midwest Mountaineering- They slept in tents, showered in the back of the store and yes, had incredible gear because Rod, the owner, was also a climber and had a brilliant mindset about how to make his employees experts on equipment, and extreme outdoors. Of course, it doesn't hurt when you don't have rent to pay, utilities, etc. either. I remember getting a discount on my EBs that otherwise I couldn't have afforded. Yes, slow, methodical, enthusiastic, soaking up everything they could about climbing big walls, mountaineering. You have an incredibly strong memory about them.I believe they had done the Prow a few weeks before? I remember getting a call from John about their accomplishment, and how they were ready now for the nose.
Gagner, if you have that slide, I would love to see it!
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Dave Hough
climber
Keene, NY
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Spudman - Reid,
I was not surprised to see your name at the bottom of that post. Your memory is good, filled in many details I had forgotten. I still have a vivid image of those gents in my head.
Best, Dave
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rocky510
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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I was there in 1978 and this is what I remember.
My partner Steve Mascioli and I knew these guys from Camp 4 and we were planning on doing the Nose starting a day or two later than them. We were all pretty friendly with each other and had talked about meeting on top and walking down with them because we (and they) anticipated that we would catch up to them by the top. For whatever reason Steve and I aborted our attempt, not far above Sickle Ledge and headed down. That morning we had noticed they were descending and we were a little mystified by that but then again our attempt didn't work out either. We never had any verbal communication with the Minnesota trio but we did watch them for a very short bit. As we walked away and just as we reached the road I heard what I thought at the time sounded like rock fall and turned to Steve and said “hmm, rock fall on El Cap, that’s weird”. We then hitched a ride back to Camp 4 and the place was abuzz. We were quickly informed that three guys just died on El Cap. Absolutely devastating news and we felt so powerless. Very sad! I remember having to stand in line at the pay phone at Camp 4 to call home and tell my parents I was ok, because they knew I was going to be on El Cap. I think it may have made the national news.
My condolences, to family and friends. I’m sorry if this is a little too graphic, my intention is not to upset anyone but just tell my story the way I remember it.
Rocky DiPrima
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Ficho
Trad climber
Mexico City
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I was in front of elcap that morning, my friend and me,we where watching our 2 mexican friends they where bellow the big roof when the accident happened,wewatch the fall and hen something broke, we did watch the whole fall until they disapir behind the big trees that block the view of el cap base.
Our friends did hear the noise and the climbers flying over the roof.
Sorry,this accident wAS IN 1973.
sERGIO fITCH
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Tom Rohrer is on his way to the LA Marathon which starts March the 9th so will not be able to e-mail him or until after the 12th of March. Have a contact # will try.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Holy buckets, this is like the fourth thread on this accident?
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Grif
Mountain climber
Kenai, Alaska
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Check with John Dill or Tim Setnika. Tim was the SAR officer then and John was his asst, I was a ranger in the Valley and remember the incident but wasn't directly involved. I think Tim is still in the Ventura area.
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pjschlick
Social climber
Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 09:33am PT
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Rocky, not too graphic at all- appreciate the sensitivity. Thank you for posting.
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pjschlick
Social climber
Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 09:34am PT
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Survival,
if there are four threads point them out to me, I'm missing something here.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 11, 2014 - 11:45pm PT
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Karl Mueller teaches geology at the University of Colorado. You can get ahold of him using the faculty directory or calling UCB.
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MAD BOLTER
Trad climber
CARLSBAD,NM
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Mar 14, 2014 - 08:18pm PT
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I was informed about the incident by YOSAR and consented to come up there to check out the situation. They were nice enough to helicopter me to the top so I could rap down to retreive the anchor for them (solo rap)!
I photoed all aspects of the location, removed and photoed each element and evidence-bagged them individully. Then replaced the anchor to get myself dowm. 3/8in Star dryvins set with epoxy 2" deep and chain connected using lap links. The bottom one being 3/8" for rope pulling when down. The upper was I think 5/16" lap link.
The items removed were sent to a metalurgist for analysis--he said the upper Dolt H hanger failed because of a manufacturing defect. Microscopic crack -would require high quality testing-magnetic/X-ray or something to have detected the crack. The hangers were chrome plated by Dolt and not improperly stored by me. It was just about 6 months before that I set them and I was surprised at the amount of rust penetration inside the hole. That was the last time I sealed bolt holes. They need to be able to air out (breathe). The climbers did several not-smart things:
1-used sling for anchor attachment around the chain
2- no attachment to any link or hanger
3- the last guy heeked into the top hanger with a biner on top of thr chain attachment lap link This improperly loaded the hanger-twisting the outer rib.
I found that the chail had slipped down over the bottom large lap link with no shock-loading evidence. The sling just slipped off the end of the chain when the top hanger failede.
I will provide some pictures of the set-up and results--later
By the way I never have more than 2 people on one anchor assembly; unless we are standing like on a ledge.
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pjschlick
Social climber
Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2014 - 08:47am PT
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BVB- Thank you for the info on Karl Mueller. I really appreciate everybody's help.
Mad Bolt- Apologies in misinformation and conjecture about who we spoke to in the village cafeteria in 1980- Yeah, 36 years is a long time. You spoke with Pat Padden, and I stood away, but was there. As I recall, you overheard us talking about the accident and pieced together that we were hometown friends. I remember you coming over to the table. You were generous and personally concerned that we knew the whole story. Its still necessary to digest this acrid truth that not one, but three bad moves on their part caused their deaths. I hope everyone reads your post. Its informative- Thanks for the pictures ahead of time.
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mtkraabel
Social climber
Minneapolis, MN
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:47pm PT
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I was never a climber, but I worked with John G. at McQuay-Perfex in Golden Valley. He was an engineering student at the time, and I seem to remember he dropped out of school and quit his job to climb. I would drop by Midwest Mountaineering to catch up with his adventures. Great guy, still hurts to think about this.
He had dreams of Everest. Memory is pretty foggy, but I think they had trekked to the base (and maybe a little further).
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Mag
Social climber
Eagan, MN
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Jan 21, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
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Pam
This is Mark, John Garton's brother. Reading these posts brings back memories from 37 years ago as if it were yesterday. I was on the phone with our mother the morning of May 14th 1978 wishing her a happy birthday and mothers day when a policeman came to her door. She said she would have to call me back, but somehow I knew she would be calling me back with bad news.
I appreciate your driving Nuba back to Bloomington with John's gear. My wife (then girl friend) took that VW out west more than once and used to laugh every time we went up a large hill commenting how appropriate the name you gave to the car was.
I still have a letter that I mailed to John on April 27th from Bemidji State University care of General Delivery Yosemite Lodge. I also have John's return letter mailed May 12th 1978 from Yosemite Lodge that was waiting for me at Bemidji State University when I returned after John's funeral. John's letter commented on his climbing adventures and how he needed five good days to tackle El Cap. If you are interested, I would be happy to share the letters with you.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jan 21, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
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That was the spring that I did the LAC. George Manson and Alan Chase were still alive.
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E
Ice climber
mogollon rim
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Jan 21, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
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i think that alan nelson (rip) also witnessed that accident
cant talk to him though
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:11pm PT
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I believe 'Zappa' Dave Austin said he knew those three Minnesota climbers quite well. He may have some more information. Check with him. I remember being in El Cap meadow when the accident occurred. Heard some noise over at the base of the Captain but didn't go up there. Of course, everyone was talking about it afterwards. A lot of people cleared out of Camp 4 because of the 'unlucky' dark feeling in the Valley. Bad ju ju and that sort of thing.
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