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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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That sucks.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Clear Creek is almost entirely a sport climbing venue. Sounds like a lowering mishap.
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WBraun
climber
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"They reached the climber and got him off the mountain within an hour,"
Mountain ..... ?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Yeah Werner, everything in Clear Creek is minutes from the road.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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I'll be curious to hear what the cause was. Lowering accidents seem to have become common place these days.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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A woman i knew was killed in a lowering accident in Clear Creek and Phil Powers, a very experienced climber and ED of the AAC, was badly injured in Clear Creek, again, from a lowering mishap.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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My condolences to family and friends. His kids were with him. How tragic!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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KennyT....the two accidents i reported were from miscommunication; they thought they were going to be lowered and leaned back with no one on the other end of the rope. If he fell 60 feet it is unlikely that the rope was not long enough.
Most of the routes there are less than half a rope length.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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That's what i thought....so sad and so avoidable.
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WBraun
climber
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The same accident happened here in Yosemite 2 different times that I know of.
It happened to Chappy on this forum years ago.
I happened to some euro guy on Lazy Bum a few years ago.
Both survived, although the euro was pretty fuked up because he hit the ground.
Chappy was super lucky because his beleyer Bruce Hawkins (RIP) miraculously was able to stop Chappy with his bare hands after falling the full pitch .....
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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So horrible. I never ever say safe or secure unless i'm going to rap. I allways make my belayer keep me on belay unless i say those things. This is exactly what happened to wendy too!! So sad. Be vigilant friends!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nobody wants to lose Chappy, one of the best dudes out there.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Was sport climbing in Owens on friday, whenever I am in a controlled comfortable environment with friendly bolts I try to keep in mind what can happen to even very skilled/safe climbers. Condolences to friends and family, risk is ever-present so give it as much respect as possible.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Very sad to hear.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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My practice is to keep a hand, or both, on the brake side of the rope until I can see the belayer's hands and see that I am on belay. There have been too many accidents like this over the years, including two personal friends. Both survived although with grave injuries.
Condolences to the family.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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In sailing, the end of the anchor line is called, "The Bitter End."
That is where the phrase came from.
You always tie off the bitter end or you will lose your anchor sooner or later. Why don't people tie a figure eight on the end of the rope every single time?
That is another sailing rule. Tie a figure eight in the end of every line. As far as I can tell, it is the only common use for a figure eight in sailing..to keep a line from sneaking through a cleat and going flying in the wind out of reach.
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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I know of two top level super safe climbers with 20 years experience at the time. Climber gets to top of one pitch sport route and says "OK" expecting to be lowered. Belayer takes him off thinking he meant off belay because he's not a sport climber.. Climber weights the rope and starts the free fall. Belayer quickly grabs the rope before climber picks up speed.Got to HAND it to the belayer,he made a mistake but was on the ball,watching and pulled off a miraculous save.
When not tied in I always put a knot at the end of my rope and other peoples also. I personally know of countless mishaps regarding rope going through belayers device on one pitch routes that were longer than expected when lowering. Hopfully the 70m rope will help on that one.
Totally attentive mono-focused belaying seems to have gone the way of the Dodo bird especially at sport crags. When was the last time you saw belayer checking knots and harness of climber and climber checking belay device and harness of belayer? I'm already teaching this and all the proper commands and responses to my 4 and 6 year old so it is ingrained.
Don't pretend to yourself it can't happen to you or for that matter you have never made a serious stupid error. Perhaps you were lucky and it didn't bite you that time.
Despite trying to play it safe all the time I fall into this catagory.
I feel so sorry for him and his kids to have this terrible accident. Must be very hard for the son.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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from 60' you can see what each other is doing. without saying a word if need be
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sport climbing becomes too casual. Ordinarily there is little danger, hence the guard goes down.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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FK!
Why do people have these communication errors? Shouldn't it be discussed before the leader leaves the ground / belay?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Accidents like this should never happen but they always will and with unvarying frequency.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Because the most dangerous thing in climbing is the human ability to err.
Don't pretend to yourself it can't happen to you or for that matter you have never made a serious stupid error. Perhaps you were lucky and it didn't bite you that time. I have been lucky and I hate that fact.
Work deliberately and seriously every belay every pitch every rappel to ingrain proper habits and communication.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Why do people have these communication errors? Shouldn't it be discussed before the leader leaves the ground / belay?
Maybe they changed the plan? I've seen many sketchy situations occur when the plan is changed mid climb.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Poor family, to have to experience that. So sad.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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First off, I agree with you.
This does not appear to be a lowering off the end of the rope accident. This was pure lack of communication between partners.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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"The accident happened at canal zone, it was a miss communication between climber and belayer. Belayer thought climber was going to rappel climber leaned into rope after cleaning gear expecting to be lowered and fell."...
Eyewitness accounts are starting to trickle in and this does not look like a lowering accident. As reported on Mountain Project by climbers who were at the scene the climber who fell was not attached to anything. Also on the ground was a doubled rope with a figure-eight rappel device attached to it.
It sounds like we need some reliable information before speculating on what actually happened.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, all...
oh my, :( always worse when the children are there, but worse, is
always worse, that it happened... :(
my condolences and prayers to the family... :(
also, werner, and all--as to this quote:
The same accident happened here in Yosemite 2 different times that I know of.
It happened to Chappy on this forum years ago.
I happened to some euro guy on Lazy Bum a few years ago.
Both survived, although the euro was pretty fuked up because he hit the ground.
Chappy was super lucky because his beleyer Bruce Hawkins (RIP) miraculously was able to stop Chappy with his bare hands after falling the full pitch .....
that is why i stopped by here one day, when thinking on my family that i missed... and my brothers, and parent-folks...
and that is why i stayed... god's years of watching over chappy, and me,
not having a clue at some of these 'near go wrongs', i am just most
grateful...
if i can pray and be of good here, as to giving good back, for our good years, it is small thankyou, at the that, but the best thank you, that i can give...
thank you the young man that saved my brother (i did notice the RIP for that climber, so i will not know him, here)...
whewwww, what a rescue :O
one never to be forgotten, for sure... :O
may many rescues always be there for climber folks, and may just as many more, never be needed, as:
may all be well in each decision and moment,
as we hope and pray for SUCH...
YET OF COURSE, precarious is part of the rocks:
so of course as to backup, keep those miracle rescues, for sure...
along with honing human-check and recheck-skills...
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jopay
climber
so.il
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Sort climbing becomes too casual. Ordinarily there is little danger, hence the guard goes down.
I think Jim nailed it, this whole "got me" business came with the advent of sport climbing, in the trad days someone almost always followed and cleaned. I can't recall any times of being lowered as that would mean gear had been left at the top. I also agree that danger sits on your shoulder when doing trad and your safety senses are heightened, not so much climbing sport at the rock or gym.
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ncskains
Ice climber
Alaska
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Check then Double Check your systems, Make sure you got both strands on that ATC, and always a rule of thumb... Never go off static till you are 110% sure your safe. One complacent error and your demise is waiting.
Sad to see someone else perishes due to an avoidable mistake. My regards to the family.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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This stuff happens to the most competent climbers. I was at Livzey Rock in Philly when I went to lower and a semi-famous climber who was belaying me was talking to a pretty girl and I almost pasted that manhole that sticks out of the ground at the base. Caught me just in time. That was my early and only foray into rope jumping, aside from lead falls.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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before you lean back you wait till you feel your belayer take you up? no. I could see how someone may get lowered off the end of the rope but letting yer partner drop from the anchors, that's a horrible lack of communication.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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The few times I've 'sport' climbed it seems I could always see my belayer and,
hopefully, he could and was seeing me. Is it too hard to look down and
see if you are still belayed and the belayer has not yet started rolling one?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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There are people that kinda blow me off a little when I go thru the check me, I'll check you. I still do it, but it would be nice if we could check together. lynne
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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before you lean back you wait till you feel your belayer take you up? no.
In the gyms, you see neglect of this good habit all the time. Why would it - neglect of this good habit - not carry over for a few in every thousand to the outdoors. It's a shame.
To get to the anchors and just let go when you don't have to is akin to walking the right side of the road (with your back to traffic) when you don't have to. I see it all the time, it's a shame.
.....
When belaying Dano, at the anchors hed just start yarding rope through for about fifty feet Then JUMP... .Belayer had to do a simul leap to further the dynamics of the catch..
The more rope out, the less dynamic belay (e.g., jump) would be needed. Eh? ;)
.....
Even on this thread, look how little mention there's been of KennyT's life-saving principle.
When lowering grab the other side of the rope, belay yourself until you make direct eye contact with your belayer
Exactly. Yet look how little it's done - as a standard. Should be an inviolable standard. Always.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Condolences to the family and friends.
It is tragic, and incredibly f*#king lame, that this continues to kill people. Why would anyone take the climber off belay without communication and consent? And why is it beyond people to test their systems or assumptions before betting the farm?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The great state of advaita
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That's a simple system Coz. Thank you. I was cragging with a new pal this weekend and we were lowering a lot after I rigged top anchors. I would clearly communicate when I was tied in that I was off belay while I transitioned. Each time he'd say, "I'm going to keep you on anyway." I really appreciated that.
Being able to see the belayer belaying before fully committing to a rap is a superb practice.
> KennyT....the two accidents i reported were from miscommunication; they thought they were
> going to be lowered and leaned back with no one on the other end of the rope. If he fell 60
> feet it is unlikely that the rope was not long enough.
> Most of the routes there are less than half a rope length.
I think this is the exact same circumstances of Craig DeMartino's accident (of Gimp Monkey's and other fame). Except I think he fell 100 feet or more.
My condolences and sympathy to the family and friends of the Clear Creek accident.
Eric
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The great state of advaita
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Lynnie... one of the kindness things anyone can do it check his/her partners know every time. I'd be extra wary of folks who blow that off.
Eric
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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2. When lowering grab the other side of the rope, belay yourself until you make direct eye contact with your belayer. NEVER ASSUME U R ON BELAY... NEVER
Learned that from you Coz way back when. Thanks.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Locker, this wasn't an accident. It is a tragedy caused by complacency and negligence. An accident implies something unforeseen; this and Donini almost taking the big ride are situations with very obvious hazards easily mitigated by principles that most of us learn when we start climbing.
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skywalker
climber
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Tragic...
I have to admit, it happened to me 15 yrs ago. I was fortunately at the top of the second pitch of Country Club Crack. I landed just above the mantle for Athletes Feat. ~ 110 ft fall all air. Partner was tied directly to the belay anchor so he was also unhurt. Miscommunication
We went home. Don't think we ever tied in together but joked as friends at the boulders for years later.
Bummer...
S...
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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My heart goes out to this guy's family. Whether it was an accident due to miscommunication, user error, or whatever, the fact is this guy is dead, and the world of his family will be rocked in a way that they cannot yet comprehend, nor can anyone else unless they have been personally affected by something like this...not a friend, but a family member/spouse. I get that it is important as hell to try to figure out what happened so the rest of us can take note and avoid the same fate. Nevertheless, be cognizant of the fact that his family may well be reading this thread, or will be soon. Does anyone know yet who it was? I can't seem to find out. It's a shitty deal....sending lots of love and positive vibes their way!
Pam
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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2. When lowering grab the other side of the rope, belay yourself until you make direct eye contact with your belayer. NEVER ASSUME U R ON BELAY... NEVER Been my practice for years and its worked well for me.
My whole life I've watched people "miscommunicate".
Rapping/lowering seems like an area of more risk in our sport.
Condolences to the family of the deceased.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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And turn yer effin cell phone of at the crag too. please
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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My two avoidable mistakes where I could of died happened while I was still relatively new to climbing. I had climbed an easy route and decided to put up a top rope on a harder climb adjacent to the first climb. The ledge for this harder climb was 20' lower on the cliff so I did not lower both sides of the rope to the ground, I left one strand short as I only needed 20' to get to the ledge.
Well I was talking to someone on the ground as i rapped and got distracted. I forgot for a second that I was stopping at the ledge and proceeded rap down the whole cliff. Luckily my friend saw what was going on and stopped me 10 ' from the end of the shorter strand with no knot! 50' directly below me was a sharp pointy boulder that I would of hit with my back. It surely would of finished me off. Thanks to my friend who was actually new to climbing I lived to tell about it. Nobody had told him about looking out for each other, he was just one of those people who seem to be on the ball naturally. I've never made that same mistake since.
Second mishap involved a overhanging 11a and my first Arcteryx harness with velcro. Got to the anchors and then noticed the buckle was not even once through. Removed the velcro immediately with my swiss army knife as soon as I got down.
I feel very lucky that it wasn't my time during these two incidents but others have not been so lucky.
Stay safe my friends and look out for your partners as a back-up so that ultimately old age will be
the author of our demise.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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coz's advice is right on. (and he's a good roll model)
But I don't think that this kind of screw up was as common place before gyms and sport climbs.
Common sense seems to have been a casualty of making protecting yer ass too user friendly.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I'll wager that many of the climbers who think nothing of carrying on a meaningless conversation with someone on the ground are very happy that when they get on a commercial airliner they are legally protected from the pilots engaging in the same sort of banter while in the TO or landing phases of the flight. Jess sayin'...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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2. When lowering grab the other side of the rope, belay yourself until you make direct eye contact with your belayer. NEVER ASSUME U R ON BELAY... NEVER
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS
Saved my ass once. Big time. I had been teaching a girlfriend how to climb for awhile and it was the end of a weekend where we had been climbing lots (with friends watching my back while she was on belay) and she had practiced lowering with other people.
She seemed to have it down pat, so when everyone took off the next day, i was comfortable enough to put up an easier route that she could top rope. I sent the route and when i put together the anchor i got her to take which she did and told her ready to lower.
She said she had me and it felt like it too with the brake side of the rope in my hand. Turns out she didn't have the brake down and when i loaded the belay and my 220 pound frame starts going really fast! I clutched at the brake side with my other hand and managed to lower myself without burning my hands even.
I was choked tho. "You almost killed me!!!" She told me the rope was burning her hands so she let go of it, and that she was physically unable to hold my weight (she was anchored) .
The next day i bought a gri gri and made her belay me with it until i was absolutely confident she had her atc figured out.
My other policy for this is working out a plan on the ground beforehand, and when i am setting up an anchor i don't say anything until "ready to lower".
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Many are here by luck.
The Rev and I never had formal instruction.
We blindly bumbled and blundered and got it right.
But it took some doing, even after we'd been in the Valley as regulars.
All it took for me to be distracted one morning on Rixon's center was a damned cigarette. I had belayed Jeff off the ground, he was on aid.
He was figuring out the next placement. I went for a short stroll to get my pack of smokes. As I turned back to the anchor my ears got blistered!
It was worse than when I stepped on the fn rope or tried to seduce his sister! I felt like sh#t, lower than a gym climber.
And I have some to tell on him, too.
It's no wonder he keeps telling me it's a wonder we ever made twenty-five.
Always be faithful to the belay, never let communications be a problem, and always check each other's outfit. And any other safety you can incorporate into routine, GOOD, DO IT!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I never had any problems except once, and I let a certain Claude talk me into not having an anchor. "I have done Stone Groove several times," he said.
About 60 feet up or so, with his last pro well below him, he peeled. He decked but just barely, as I was yanked into the wall. I caught his fall, just barely. He wasn't hurt. But if I had an anchor, he wouldn't have decked. I never ever let anybody talk me into not having an anchor after that.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Meh. I hate these stories about preventable accidents. Stay sharp everyone. Condolences to any friends or family members.
Coz2. When lowering grab the other side of the rope, belay yourself until you make direct eye contact with your belayer. NEVER ASSUME U R ON BELAY... NEVER
That probably the best piece of advice I've never heard before. I'll start using it. I take it paranoia from years of clients trying to kill you has instilled some survival habits?
Thing a knot in the very end of the rope (generally a good habit), won't keep you from hitting the ground on a single pitch climb if your partner drops you. Seems like you'd have to tie an overhand-bight once someone gets a few feet off the ground if you really want to prevent ground-fall.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Did the guy expect to be lowered or did he simply mess up his rappel? I get the impression it was the latter case.
Stich- i think you are right. From mp:
By jpike
1 day ago
I was climbing the route next to this guy at the time of the accident. It was at least a 60 ft fall. I was setting up to rap, heard a scream above, looked up and saw a body whiz by. When I got down he was unconscious and a few others were attending to him. The rope was on the ground with a figure 8 set to rap but it was not connected to him. His kids and grand kids were within 20 feet of where he hit. I'm so glad he didn't land on one of them. Also, I don't think it was communication error.
By jpike
1 day ago
The climber was not on belay. The figure 8 was not clipped to him. I'm pretty sure proper commands were exchanged. I'm baffled as to how he messed up. The figure 8 looked set up properly, other than not being clipped to him. He was not tied in at all.
By jpike
1 day ago
Just to make it crystal clear...he was not clipped to the rope in any fashion. The belay device and biner were attached to the rope but not him. Everything was on the ground.
By jpike
After reflecting on it and reading all your posts I have thought of a scenario that fits best with what I witnessed. I think he probably did not clip to the anchor at the top. It was a reasonably comfortable stance. They had their own gear attached to the fixed anchor for top roping. It is possible that he set the rappel up properly with their anchor, not the fixed cold shuts. He is still unattached to anything. He realizes that he must run the rope through the fixed cold shuts to clean his parties anchor. He unclips the rope from his gear planning to quickly attach it to the fixed shuts. He accidentally drops the rope with the f8 and biner which is now attached to nothing and slips trying to catch it. This is my best guess.
Thank you all for helping me process this tragedy. I know I will respect the seriousness of this incredible and fulfilling sport in a new and profound way after witnessing this. Climb smart and safe out there guys.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I think it is important to mention that the "fixed cold shuts" mentioned by jpike in his first person account of the accident are actually Mussy Hooks. There was no reason to untie to thread the anchors.
Also, the stance at the anchor is OK, but I would not stand there without being clipped in.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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I always clip in with my safety when I get to the top of a sport or trad pitch with anchor bolts, no matter what. Would rather take the time to clip and unclip even if belayer is "supposed" to have me on, than risk a mis-communication.
Condolences to friends and family, sorry for your loss.
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Outdoorvangelist
Trad climber
San Juan Capistrano, CA
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Apr 13, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
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Trying to glean some wisdom from this. Could it be that his Figure Eight levered and unclipped from an unlocked biner at his clip in point? That would explain the detached but fully rigged eight.
As a parent, this is terrifying... always has been my personal 'worst case scenario'. Condolences to the family.
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bjj
climber
beyond the sun
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Apr 13, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
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Don't pretend to yourself it can't happen to you or for that matter you have never made a serious stupid error. Perhaps you were lucky and it didn't bite you that time. I have been lucky and I hate that fact.
You can project and pontificate all you want if it makes you feel better, but I am here to tell you that not once in 20 years have I ever, even once had anything even remotely like that happen / almost happen.
The person on the sharp end of my rope is not coming off belay until I am 100% sure, double checked by visual or extra inquiry that is what they intend. When it's me on the end, same drill. You STAY on belay until you have proof positive something else is requested. You don't leave the anchors under someone else's control until you have proof positive said control is ready.
You sound like someone who got caught drinking and driving trying to claim "everyone does it". No, they don't.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Apr 13, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
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My sincere condolences to the family and friends.
Tragic...
-Tom
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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May 15, 2013 - 03:31am PT
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Scary. Especially if one of the children WAS the belayer. Both mine (12 and 14) belay me but they know that 'off belay' is the only time to take me off belay. That only happens when I'm clipped to the bolts/chains, etc. and they respond with 'belay off'.
Maybe my newness to the sport is showing, but how do you clean gear and expect to be lowered? If you're being lowered that happens right when you top out ('Got me?', 'Yup'). Was he getting lowered using the bolts/chains? If someone was cleaning gear I would also assume they were going to rappel, since you're not supposed to lower from the bolts/chains. But I would still wait for the cue to take them off belay. Seems like following standard protocol would have prevented this. I guess if there are walk off options that could happen, but even then the 'belay off' still applies.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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May 15, 2013 - 04:12am PT
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I always do the coz grab, every time, even in the gym. I just can't bring myself to weight a rope without still being anchored or at least having a hand on the other side. When belaying, when the leader wants to clean the anchor and rap I leave the rope in the device with some slack until I absolutely know he / she is rapping instead of lowering.
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