Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 68 of total 68 in this topic |
Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 13, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
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For anyone interested in the climbing history of the UK Don Whillans and Joe Brown were THE partnership advancing the grades of climbing in the UK in the 1950's. This video is a reunion of two "old" men to climb Cemetery Gates E1 5b (5.10a/b)a route they first climbed 33 years before this was filmed in 1984. Sadly a few months after this was filmed Don died. This was his last climb. The constant banter between these old pals is great.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Mar 13, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
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Whoo hoo!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 13, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
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Awesome! I'll have to watch it later though.
Can't wait, I love stuff like this!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 13, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
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"Have you enjoyed yourself so far Don?"
"Me? Aye, in a sort of twisted, sort of way.."
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fosburg
climber
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Mar 13, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
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Classic! You gotta love Joe Brown sporting a Joe Brown helmet. "Manchester, so much to answer for...".
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
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That video is fantastic and poignantly sad at once.
I found it quite sad the way he talks about doing more of these climbs with his old pal and that he will get fitter and enjoy it more. As we know that didn't happen because he died shortly afterwards.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
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Just terrific Andy!!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
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Thank you so much for this post, Andy!
WHillans made it to Ysoemite in 1966, where he did Crack of Doom, Crack of Despair, the NW Face of Half Dome, I think Steck-Salathe, and more.
John
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 13, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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That was really special... Interesting watching the camaraderie between the two. Pretty special.
Susan
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
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For those that found this poignant and interesting, I recommend Jim Perrin's book, The Villain: a Portrait of Don Whillans
It explains quite a bit of that relationship, even the parts Joe takes about in the film of Whillans disliking every one of Joe's girlfriends, causing their estrangement. You can get it for just a few bucks, say here:
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=8949867&matches=14&cm_sp=works*listing*title
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
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the high step at the crux came out of nowhere. cool stuff
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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The lad loved his brews.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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Thanks for sharing, it was a stellar find.
Two old hens bantering....:)
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
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Nice vid, thanks for sharing it Andy!
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
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Great vid....thanks. Read and thoroughly enjoyed the "Villian". Also, was lucky enough to take a trip in the 80's to Wales and climbed Cemetery Gates, Cenotaph Corner and Left Wall. Cemetery was my favorite probably because it was the only one of the three I didn't take a 20 foot leader fall! Great climb, great history, and a nice insight into the relationship between these two icons.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Mar 14, 2013 - 10:39am PT
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Well done lad
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jopay
climber
so.il
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Mar 14, 2013 - 11:27am PT
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Thanks for posting this, I've long admired Whillans both for his climbing resume which encompassed rock, alpine and mountaineering and the fact he was a working class lad, a fellow plumber. Seems he did it his way and we all admired that, he still busted a couple of good moves on that climb. I also still have my Joe Brown helmet.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 14, 2013 - 11:35am PT
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Yes I am haunted by the ghost of Don Whillans. Have been for a long time. I try to heed his warning... sometimes better than others.
If these musings are out of place I will delete them. I mean Whillans no disrespect....
I thought your personal musings and reflections were very moving...
Susan
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The great state of advaita
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Mar 14, 2013 - 11:59am PT
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Poignant DMT. Much appreciated and thank you for sharing such a personal perspective. That's running it out, in a way. I think it's additive.
Eric
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 14, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
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Good stuff Dingus. There's a little bit of almost all of us there.
The part I found interesting was that I'd heard he was "bitter" at the end.
I know he was in front of the cameras, but "bitter" didn't come through in this film.
He was mostly in good spirits and humor. Sure, lots of joking about age and condition, but not "bitter."
I make plenty of comments about age and condition myself, because it's true.
It was a joy to watch.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 14, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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Thanks Andy.
Brown and Whillans were at the core of the technical rock experience when I first encountered it. They still are. And not just because of heroics. It was because their personalities and minds simply resonated with so many. There still are more Brown and Whillans's around than you can shake a stick at.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 14, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
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Thanks, Andy. That was, yes, poignant but still a joy to watch.
When Don got off his bike I didn't think he'd make it to the climb let alone
up it.
"It's still a bit naughty here." :-) :-)
"Is this a non-smoking stance?" :-/
I met Joe in '78 atop the infamous Red Wall and thought he looked impossibly
old (48! LOL), especially to have just come up one of those chossy horror shows.
Of course, I was too awe struck to mumble little else than
"It's an honour, Your Grace." ;-)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 14, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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"It's an honour, Your Grace." ;-)
You did NOT say that, you fecking crawly bumlicker!
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Mar 14, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
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Great video, thanks. Fun to watch and listen.
Enjoyed reading Jim Perrin's The Villain, which paints a more complex picture. A fascinating follow up to Perrin's "Menlove" about Menlove Edwards, another enigmatic hardman/climber. With Whillans, there was a bitterness. Perrin explored this and refrained from publishing the book until both Don and his widow Audrey were gone.
I've heard about this meanness, anecdotally, from others. Joe Brown, in the video, hints at this; the meanness was directed mostly toward women.
The climbing was, for Don, as for so many of us, a chance to escape our roles and attitudes and demons. You can see he's having a blast. Loving every minute.
Joe learned from his climbing, rose above what he might have been. Don somehow never escaped the hard-drinking, working class role he was born into and was familiar and comfortable with. In some ways this was more honest, sticking to his roots, but also limiting.
Met Don, once. Bought him a pint! Many of those "6 pints a night" were bought by admiring young kids, like I was at the time, happy to listen to his stories, which went on and on, in that funny, droll, squeaky voice and were hilarious.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Mar 14, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
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Amazing that he could still fit into a harness.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Mar 14, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
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Whillans was 52, I'm 56. Getting older makes it harder. It's sort of the reverse of what Greg LeMond said about training for bike races: "It never gets easier, you just go faster." Well, aging is more like I go just as hard but not as fast.
It also gets harder to keep fit and the weight in check. In my 20's I weighed about 155, worked hard, played hard and ate and drank as much of anything I wanted. My goal these days is 170 lbs but I can no longer eat and drink with abandon.
DMT - You're doing great. Picture the average 50 something north American male, an ugly site more often than not.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Mar 14, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
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Dingus brings up a good point. I will on occasion, criticize myself for being overweight or out of shape. Out of shape for me means huffing on a steep 6 mile hike with over 2000 feet of elevation gain. My wife, a nurse, just laughs at it. Says that I'm running in the top 10% for my age group from what she sees. Unfortunately, if you are hanging with climbers, a comparison to them can make you feel weak and old. Some of the folks I climb with could be my kids, in fact, some are younger than my kids. If we look at what brought Willians down, smoking, alcoholism, and poor eating choices, we can see a better path. We've seen it with others who miss out on a lot of years due to getting addicted to booze of one sort or another. Looking at Beckey, Donini Lowe and Chouinard (lots of others in that mold) as models might be more appropriate, and from the outside it looks like plenty of getting out, and food and booze in moderation is the way to be.
Good luck Dingus!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 14, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
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Thanks, DMT. Whillans did quite a bit of climbing while "grossly overweight because of his prodigious intake of beer," to quote Mountain magazine. Right now, I'm grossly overweight because of my prodigious intake of chocolate (and because of a nine-month layoff to recover from injury), so we'll see if my ability to rebound at age 61 is what it was earlier.
Tom Patey wrote my personal favorite account of Don Whillans in One Man's Mountains. He has a chapter entitled "A Short Walk with Whillans," the "short walk" being to the Second Icefield on the Eigerwand. To me, he perfectly captures the Whillans persona.
John
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Mar 14, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
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What a great find! I love that British understatement.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 14, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
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Great video. Joe Brown is in excellent shape, climbing with confidence.
The wit and the mockery is a constant.
Don taking off his helmet. Joe: The helmet, is it protecting your head or the cig?
Interviewer: What does it take to be a good team?
Don: Confidence...
... you don't have to like each other...
They have been talking about imagination. The rope is on the ground close to their feet. Don: I can't imagine the end of the rope down there.
Joe: "The rope's not coming, are you standing on it?"
Don: "Yeah,...
... do you want me to get off it?"
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Mar 14, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
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That was pretty darn fun.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Mar 14, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
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Great stuff. That hanging belay off mank was something.
JL
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 14, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
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His last climb at 52, what a shame. He was so naturally gifted and so personally conflicted. Genetics, lifestyle, luck....and the only one you can control is lifestyle. Don's lifestyle was so over the top wrong as to appear self destructive.
Being a drunk in your 20's is accepted....hell, he's the life of the party. In your 30's the occasional eyebrow is raised but hell, he's still the life of the party. In your 40's and 50's people start avoiding you. Your 60's.....no problem, you're no longer around.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 14, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
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Your 60's.....no problem, you're no longer around. ...and the only one you can control is lifestyle Cuts to the chase!
Susan
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 14, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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A very wonderful later shot of Joe up on Llanberis Pass, with Cenotaph and Cemetery Gates in the background, long after Whillans has passed and their last climb together but a memory. Joe is 82 now. The image must be fairly recent, by Ray Wood.
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
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The image must be fairly recent, by Ray Wood.
Peter according to www.snowdonia-active.com the picture is credited as being taken by Ray Wood just before Joe's 80th birthday in 2010.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 14, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
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I'll bet he's still flyfishing for salmon.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 14, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
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Yeah, I bet too, Jim. What a terrific classy man he is and so different than Don, so much freer.
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John Morton
climber
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Mar 14, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
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Thanks Andy, what a treat! Great to let the rock and the people speak for themselves without the relentless pounding music of the typical climbing vid. Did this route in Apr. 1965, and remember it mostly as being vastly more friendly and less scary than Cenotaph Corner.
John
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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"Gone on this day, 1985.08.04; Donald Desbrow Whillans, British climber, who, accompanied by Doug Haston, ascended the South Face of Annapurna I for the first time in 1970 and also ascended Tirich Mir in 1975, died of heart-attack, aged 52.
He is legendary for the quotes attributed to him. "People ask me why I drink so much. It's because of a morbid fear of dehydration." Or the following one, taken from Jim Perrin's splendid biography "The Villain"; "Don Whillans participated in the 1972 European Everest Expedition. The atmosphere was not the best among the various nationalities, no one wanted to carry loads because everyone was saving himself for a possible summit attempt. The German climbers heard on the radio that England had lost a soccer game to Germany. The conversation went "It seems that we have beaten you in your national sport", said a proud German to Don. After a minimal pause Don replied "Aye lad, and we've beaten you at yours, twice."
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Whillans and Brown. Wow. Such great souls. I didn't get
to know Joe, other than to follow all the writings and to gain
a sense of him through mutual friends, such as Don. I felt
I knew him, though, that we were
somehow connected in spirit. He was a true master climber, with
unbelievable technique. His brilliant leads, such as Cenotaph Corner
remain iconic. Cemetery Gates was an incredible lead for its day,
what with no chalk, no high-tech gear, no sticky rubber shoes...
just a few primitive points of protection.
I was fortunate to meet Whillans in 1966. He was there, with Royal,
when I led Supremacy, and earlier in the day he and Royal and I
climbed all six pitches of Ruper. I had heard that Don was a bit
of a ruffian, yet he and I hit it off right away. After his trip
to California with Royal, and his experience in the Valley, climbs
such as the Crack of Doom (with Royal) and Crack of Despair (with
Pratt), he returned to Boulder to look me up. At one point he
wanted to get rid of a lot of British coin, as it was of no
use in America. I traded it for an equivalent amount in dollars,
and for decades I cherished those coins. They simply were to
remember Whillans. To hold them in my hand was to have Don near.
In 1984, when I was a guest speaker at the British national
conference, Whillans found me and took me to the nearest pub
in Buxton. He told many funny stories. I remember every detail
of that get-together, not to mention his wonderful role as
the "beauty queen" at the festival, where some of the older
classic climbers, such as Dennis Gray, dressed up as women.
Though I'll save those details of that encounter with him
and the festival for another time.
I was, of course, heart broken when I was contacted and
informed of Don's passing. I consider our friendship one of the great
blessings of my life.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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The German climbers heard on the radio that England had lost a soccer game to Germany. The conversation went "It seems that we have beaten you in your national sport", said a proud German to Don. After a minimal pause Don replied "Aye lad, and we've beaten you at yours, twice."
witty. I laughed. Whillans strikes me as an intelligent person.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Great post.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Missed this before, Thanks very cool.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Nineteen stone is 266 pounds.
I criticize myself for being 165, that guy was a badass.
He lived life as he wanted.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Just watched this again, as heretofore mentioned the banter is classic, my partner of 30 years and I sound not unlike this. We , being in our mid 50's know this type of relationship. Everyone should watch this.
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CaNewt
Mountain climber
Davis, CA
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Aug 11, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
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Thanks for this post. It brings back such memories.
In 1971 I got to do a number of climbs in the Pass including Cenotaph Corner and Cemetary Gates. Brown and Whillans were years ahead of their time when they first put up these routes and many others.
Later, I got to climb a number of times with Don and treasure those experiences. In 1976 we did an alpine ascent of the West Rib on Denali with my mate John Howard and "Binksi". Mind you on that expedition we were the "B" team. The "A" team consisted of Ad and Al Burgess, Tut Braithwaite and Paul Moores. The Burgess twins mentioned the trip in their "Book of Lies". (I am sure the part about where they mentioned that we all got arrested is definitely a lie???)
In 1980, Anne Schneider and I climbed Mt Aspiring in New Zealand with Don. I remember a particularly great pub session with Don, Ed and Peter Hillary, Murray Jones (my NZ mate) Anne and a couple of others.
Later that year we did some rock climbs in the Lakes. It was great to visit his home and meet Audrey.
Don later came to California (in 1983 I think) as the speaker at the first AAC Sierra Nevada Section dinner held in some time. It was at the Brazilian Room in Tilden Park.
I got a particular kick watching the video in that Don in the first scene is wearing on our our Celestial Peak T shirts. The shirt was designed by Mary Wagstaff (Brock's wife) Brock, Allen Steck, Erik Perlman and myself did the first ascent of Celestial Peak (in China.) I must have given him the shirt when he came out for the dinner.
I remember Don as witty, smart and engaging. Perhaps he has mellowed a bit? I learned a lot about the mountains from Don. In particular I think of how he had a sense as to what constituted a safe bivy location in steep terrain.
Thanks, Andy.
Cheers,
Bob Schneider
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Aug 12, 2013 - 12:30am PT
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Great video, Andy. Thanks a bunch!
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Rick Sylvester
Trad climber
Squaw Valley, California
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Aug 12, 2013 - 03:36am PT
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Thanks for posting this, which I'd neither seen nor heard about before, and featuring Don who led me up my first ever roped climb. I have nothing but fond memories of him.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Aug 12, 2013 - 10:00am PT
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Bloody brilliant
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 12, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
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He looks more 'ska' than sky to me, the yogi, that is.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Aug 12, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
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"East meets West" as Frost would say in his slide show on the South Face of Annapurna Expedition.
His slide show started with a very similar photo and the Beatles song, "Here Comes the Sun" blasting away in the background.
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Stainless
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
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The banter is f*#king brilliant! "Is that helmet to protect your head or the keep your fag dry?"
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overwatch
climber
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Jun 11, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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Thanks for the bump...some good ones today
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jun 12, 2015 - 05:49am PT
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That footage of Bonington and Whillans climbing with only a rope, rope slings, biners, and some handplaced chockstones is amazing. One wonders what it would have been like to see Whillans climb when he was at his best. Picture a young and brutally strong Whillans climbing Goliath, an overhanging offwidth in 1958 with no gear and at E4 (5.11C/D)!
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jun 12, 2015 - 06:22am PT
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Classic!
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jun 12, 2015 - 06:54am PT
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Whillans encounters a sadhu in India and asks him "I suppose you are on some sort of sponsored walk?"
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 12, 2015 - 08:09am PT
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The really tragic thing is that Whillans last climb happened when he was only 52. A life of excesses led to his demise....a cautionary tale for all.
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Michael Hjorth
Trad climber
Copenhagen, Denmark
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Jun 12, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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Ha-ha, Marlow, that was a GIFT! Thnx!
Whillans visited Denmark the year previous, and I climbed with him for a day in Sweden (why the f... didn't I bring a camera...?!). He had exactly the same clothes, EBs around his neck, rope around the waist. And climbed with smooth elegance (on routes somewhat easier than E1/Dovedale Groove).
Good to see, good to remember!
Michael
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
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The original link seems to be broken. Here's the Brown / Whillans film for anyone that missed it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jun 12, 2015 - 05:36pm PT
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The really tragic thing is that Whillans last climb happened when he was only 52. A life of excesses led to his demise....a cautionary tale for all.
Several years ago, Joe Brown told me had discussions with Whillans about his physical condition, but didn't prevail apparently.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jun 14, 2015 - 12:18am PT
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Thanx,
The video was on then ???
I know you have got to love those two!
Increasing age as the human condition comes with it insults.
Add to that, the insults to the system of smoke and drink , diet & overall lack of conditioning,
abusing the body and mind, those insults cut down the most verbose first.
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overwatch
climber
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Jun 14, 2015 - 08:09am PT
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Thanks for replacing the link.
What an intersting film especially watching with the knowledge of Mr. Whillans coming demise.
I loved his quips, in particular, "so far so good said the man falling from the tenth floor" and "by the time I get there I will be climbing on me elbows". Good stuff.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Dec 24, 2017 - 10:08pm PT
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Saw this on Youtube and figured it had probably already been the subject of a Supertopo thread.
Indeed, it has.
Therefore, I bump this thread and recommend this video highly.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Dec 25, 2017 - 01:39pm PT
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I can't say I wasn't a little upset when I heard that deep cough Whillans had on the approach up from the road. You also get worried when he admits he doesn't really care about climbing hard anymore. His partying was of course legendary, but you just can't carry on the same way at 52 as you did at 36 or 26 and not expect to pay some heavy consequences. But Whillans sure got a heck of a lot done before the final curtain went down.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 25, 2017 - 06:11pm PT
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With a slow Christmas day & 3" of fresh snow outside today, I got my tasks done & watched the video for the 2nd time.
Significantly to me! Whillan's managed to follow the climb with some fun & joking & had a cig at the top. Classic Whillans.
My old man was a "work-a-holic," skinny as a rail, & didn't drink much, but smoked two-packs of unfiltered Camels a day. He "checked-out" suddenly at age 53 from a heart-attack.
Whillans had a lot more fun than my father did.
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