Discussion Topic |
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brook_alongi
Big Wall climber
Everett, WA
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I thought that Pipeline was free soloed for the first ascent?
Maybe I'm remembering my facts incorrectly, but I do recall that detail. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's burly, period.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Pipeline was free-soloed on the first free ascent. Many of the sawed-off tubes were still in place in 1979.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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As an aside, there was this German guy in the Valley around '81 or '82.
His name was Sonny. He was the Proto-Uber-Man. Stark blue eyes, a massive frame and a tight cropped mustache; the guy was unstoppable on walls.
If Clancey were to read this he'd post up some stories for sure.
Perhaps it was for the Zodiac: the wide pitch or whatever, but Sonny had fabricated his own tube chocks by cutting cross sections out of a helicopter skid!
He called protection in general, "Materiel" and would say "Vee Need More Materiel"...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Read and see more about Pipeline on Mike Hengeveld's website (careful, you may get psyched to do it!):
http://home.primus.ca/~dooley/climbing/offwidths/episode5.html
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks for the reference to Mike Hengeveld's stories of Pipeline. In fact, he's done the climb twice - some people never learn. But he's still my friend, although he's temporarily abandoned offwidthing for parenthood. And his website is pretty good, though not lately updated.
I suppose we could re-direct this thread, and everyone could tell "the most horrible off-width/chimney I've ever done" stories, which might be lots of fun. I still hope to learn more about the origins and evolution of tube chocks.
Anders
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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thanks Clint, that is a wonderful site!
I loved Episode III
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hi Anders,
I have been trying to think of what was going on with tube chocks when Chouinard and Frost came out with their design.
It seems like such a simple idea I would guess that there were homemade versions of similar designs that preceded Chouinard's and Frost's design.
However, I don't remember any thing before, at least not in the Valley.
I still have two or three of the original designs. They are in great shape because they didn't get used much--they were hard to use. Somehow, aluminum bongs seemed to be more versatile.
Best, Roger
Great cartoon.
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chiranjeeb
climber
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Hi Grug,
Aren't you the person who free-soloed Pipeline for the FFA? It will be nice if you could tell us about your experience.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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chiranjeeb. There's not a whole lot to this story. In 1979 I was in Squamish with Tom Gibson, George Manson, Rob Rohn, and Mike Tschipper. We had been coming to Squamish annually for the last 2-3 years. We met up with Squamish locals Perry Beckham and perhaps Scott Flavelle. On that trip, Tom and Rob put up Freeway, one of the great Squamish long free climbs.
Perry was the one who talked up Pipeline. He had known about my Lost Arrow Chimney solo. I remember him showing us the climb from still some distance away the evening before I climbed it. I can't remember much else but setting out the next morning by myself and doing it. Those sawed-off pipes were plentiful (at least 4 of them), and I vaguely remember having a hard time getting around at least one of them.
Perry had suggested the FFA name be called Pipeloads. I sort of agreed, but apparently nothing came of it. I had no idea that this climb would become a classic.
BTW, Hengeveld's article is pretty darn amusing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Thanks for that post Clint. What a cool looking line. Now I want to do it.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Yes, important to remember that Greg Cameron free-soloed Pipeline in 1979 - probably the second ascent, and the first free ascent. Pretty bold stuff!
There are also the Tetons (Teetons? Titons?), on much the same principles. Long pieces of t-bar stock, ends tapered in. Usually used end-ways, sometimes side-ways.
The nut museum website is really good - I'd read about it before. As a trip to Corsica doesn't seem likely any time soon, the site will have to do.
Anders
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Chief
climber
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Jun 28, 2010 - 11:25am PT
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Bump for Grug's on sight, free solo first free ascent of Pipeloads.
A memorable day indeed!
And Greg did throw my tube chocks off the Pillar on purpose.
That was the genesis of the now infamous bolted lieback into the Flats.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 28, 2010 - 12:45pm PT
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Perhaps Tricouni (Glenn) can add stories and photos about the FA of Pipeline, in 1966. He did it with Leif-Norman Patterson and Barry Hagen. I also forgot to mention that they obtained at least some of the aluminum pipe from my father, who was an engineer with Alcan - I remember one of them coming to our house to get it.
I wonder what became of those pipes? Buried in the loam under the cliff, or?
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 28, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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I thought it was either Bacher or Werner who invented the tube socks?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 28, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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Dan Smith and I made some crude tube chocks, using aluminum pipe about 1 1/2 inches in diameter, in 1971. We weren't aware of anyone else having them then, but I rather doubt that we did it first. If you're interested, I'll post a picture when I get home.
John
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jun 28, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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I could have sworn I had one on my rack in '72 or '73. Between those and the big Chouinard hexes, the crag often sounded like there were wind chimes hung all over the place.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jun 28, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
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Very funny story Piton, I have to say, "been there, done that".
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 30, 2010 - 12:25am PT
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As I recall, the evolution started with extralong sections of #10 Hex stock. They weighed a ton and never hit the market. Thin walled tubing was readily available without setting up yet another extrusion. The fillets lessened the twist rocking making the tubular bells easier to place securely.
CMI offered their I beams at about the same time. I don't have any their units.
I never fiddled with the Forrest T beams beyond the biggest Titon. That mass of aluminum would have made a dandy mace! I did place it quite a bit as a 4" nut just a tad larger than a #11 Hex.
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ScottW
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 30, 2010 - 01:03am PT
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If my memory serves me right, I thought DR was involved in their original design. Correct me if I'm off base on this.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 30, 2010 - 05:52pm PT
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DR himself would have to weigh in here. If he had a hand in all things tubular, I'm sure he will enter and sign in please!
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Jun 30, 2010 - 06:22pm PT
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Steve, I have 5 sizes, how many were there?
Thor
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 30, 2010 - 06:27pm PT
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The range was 4" - 6" in 1/2" increments for a total of five tubes.
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Jun 30, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
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Great, thanks, now I need the #3 & #4 original Chouinard Camalots!
Thor
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Jun 30, 2010 - 08:06pm PT
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Dude! Put down the bongs!
;)
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Jun 30, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
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There is some text in DR's book that suggests he was involved in the design.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Here's a photo of the rack we used on the 1st ascent of Pipeline at Squamish (early 1966). I'll try and hunt up a photo of the route with the tubes in use.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Awesome shot, Glenn! Thanks for posting it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nice rack.
You guys were shaving your heads back then?? LOL
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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That's a helmet, Ron, on Leif Patterson's head.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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LOL
(bagged one!)
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local
Social climber
eldorado springs
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We drilled and countersunk about anything that would take a sling.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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And here's the darned things in use....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nice looking fatcrack! I can see why Greg jumped on in! LOL
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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This thread has gone all tubular - fantastic!
Glenn, your photo is amazing. Photo of the month, I'd say Was it from 1965 or 1966? The caption says 1966, the photo of Leif says "early 1966".
Here's a photo of Slhanay (formerly called the Squaw), on which is Pipeline:
The route for Pipeline is much the same as or a bit to the right of what is now the first half of Birds of Prey, to the 'jog', then up the arching left-facing corner to the right. (Grey strip, between white areas.)
The big right-facing corner is Right Wing.
A photo from the site that dares not speak its name, from the same spot as Glenn's was taken from, but of a modern free climber.
Now where are all those wyde people, anyway? They should be lapping this stuff up.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Oh, they're lapping.
Anticipation to bleeding is exquisite.
Or some such.
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Mimi
climber
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Jeeze, Greg! That was a proud send!
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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For those that missed tube chock era the proper way to rack tube chocks was to pull the perlon out one end of the tube so you could rack them in a vertical orientation minimizing the clutter.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Tubes came in pretty early; there were too many hard climbs that needed pro bigger than an #11 hex. CMI made I-beams, forest made Titons, those utah bros had cams without springs; what was a 'nard to do?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Speaking of which:
A classic wooden wedge, possibly also in the photo from 1966 that Glenn posted. Donated by the Patterson family to the YCA museum.
There were all sorts of variants, but this one may have been commercially made, in Europe, in the early 1960s. Wooden blocks were also used on the first ascent of Tantalus Wall (Yosemite Pinnacle), possibly homemade. The crack was too wide for even the biggest bongs.
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Chief
climber
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After his rad solo, Greg explained that "I could see I could get my knee in, so knew it wouldn't be too bad." Really?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Use your knee,
and you,
Can use your mind....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Chief- Most people need to get their foot in the door but fat crackers just need to get that knee in there!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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A few of Leif's bongs, as shown in Glenn's photo upthread.
The largest bongs ever commercially made, by LongWare. The largest is just under 6", but it still wasn't big enough for Pipeline.
Two now donated to the YCA museum, one I use for a memento and paperweight.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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John Markwell, of Seneca Rocks Climbing School, Seneca WV. Designed some chocks, Not Tube chocks...but maybe that too. Story goes he sent a set to Yvon Chouinard, and heard no word back from him. Then all of a sudden there was a photo in his mag selling chocks. Lots of cool shiZ on the wall in the Gendarme too. Just like Neptune Mnteering.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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So how many fixed tubes are still in situ on this route?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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A few more LongWare bongbongs, as may have been used on Pipeline. For the wyde folk.
These ones are steel, with the largest being about 4". I believe that Leif went to graduate school in the Bay area in about 1962 or 1963, did some climbing in the Valley then, and probably bought all the bongs then.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Where the heck is DR on this tubular business?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 25, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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Still waiting for DR to shoot the Tube, historically speaking! Maybe the next set...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:52am PT
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Bump, so that folk need not wade for the wyde on Monday!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:27am PT
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hey call it wyde monday
but tuesday is just as thick....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:03pm PT
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Calling DR! Tubular Bump right back at ya, Anders^%
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Steve had to email to get my attention; all summer life has trumped Taco.
I developed the tube chocks that Chouinard eventually marketed. In the past I've claimed "inventing" them, but now it seems the Squamish boys beat me to it. I started hand-making prototypes in Chouinard's tin shed in '69 or '70, and testing them in the Palisades and the Valley. That quickly led to production models in the catalog. I dreamed up the idea almost* completely on my own. Didn't know about Pipeline until right now, though that's clearly earlier tube use than mine. And I don't recall seeing John Markwell's tubes come in to Chouinard Equipment. I bet that happened after we were underway on my design.
Here's the almost* part: My Dad was an aeronautical engineer. He did some of the earliest work on making airplane fuselages out of giant aluminum tubes. So in a way I was spinning off of his idea when I came up with the Tube Chock.
Maybe this won't make much sense here, but this photo is from my Dad's Engineering Masters Thesis at Stanford in 1930. It's a big aluminum tube rigged up to test its shear strength, to see how much force it takes to buckle the tube. It's an early step toward making tubular fuselages for airplanes, back in the days of balsa wood structures with fabric skins stretched over them.
By the time I was a kid in the 50s, my dad was the Director of Research at the NASA lab at Moffett Field in Silicon Valley. He would take me to wander through the labs and wind tunnels. One day I picked up a scale model of the X-15 off a lab bench. He cooly moved me along. Years later I realized I had seen a still-secret design.
Anyway, the strength of aluminum tubes stuck with me, and when clean climbing was blossoming at Chouinard's tin shed it turned into my Tube Chock design.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks, Doug! That helps clear things up. I'll check with Glenn (Tricouni), but suspect that they used the tubes in a more 'active' sense, whereas the Chouinard tube chocks were intended for passive use. Otherwise, the idea seems quite similar. Parallel evolution or something...
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Yeah, "active" as in with a hammer.
We never even tapped on Chouinard tubes, cuz that's the game we played, though I scared myself many, many times by not going there. I did carry a file in my pocket sometimes, to custom-fit a tube to the crack. It never worked very well. In fact they weren't the best of pro. They just didn't adapt that well to the flaring vagaries of wide cracks.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Thanks for joining in, Doug.
Did extra long sections of Hexentric extrusion predate your Tube Chock design? I remember hearing rumors of custom cut long Hexes but I never saw one.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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I've seen one of those super long hexes.
Can probably get a pic of it...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Somewhere I have photo of one, extendo, extrudo hex that lives in the Fish shop when it's not out climbing, maybe Russ will post a shot (like that's likely....)
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Thanks again Doug, great background! It is all in the details and I enjoy hearing of the history of gear I have used to keep my rear-end out of harms way! LOL
This is the set I used regularly in the 80's!
Thor
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Fresh from the source... the legendary Fish hex...looks like a #8
Having a beer...
And a shot of it in action...
Credit: Russ W Photos
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Steel Monkey, You are awesome! That is the Baddest Hex ever!!!
Thor
P.P.S. Someone needs to "pop the top" on that Natural Light!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Very cool long hex! Definitely the modern thin wall extruded stock. Any shots of the heavier symetrical stock that would have predated the Tube Chock? The offset Hexentric and Tube Chock came out in the same year, 1973.
I bet the Fish swam away with a whole length of that stock and has a selection stashed in the armory. 8" sweet!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I shoulda know you'd get that image out before I got home and have to mine my harddrive...
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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No sweat JB - I had help. :-)
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richross
Trad climber
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Big pro's the way to go!
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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A little follow up to the big hex pics... Russ says this is the biggest chock in his arsenal and the biggest one he's ever seen. Around 37"
Sorta looks like a pipe, don't it?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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I dug out a couple of the original tube chocks Leif Patterson and I made for the Pipeline route at Squamish in 1966. There are two variants, one of each shown in the two photos below.
The smaller one (with the oval carabiner) was cut from an old television antenna. This stock is less than 1/8" thick, and the tubes are about 1-1/4" in outside diameter. The first time we used them we found they had a tendency to deform and bend too much for our liking, so we developed the Mark II model. These were made of heavier stock, obtained from MH's father, I think, about 1/8" thick with an outside diameter of about 1-5/8". They were much better, but weight 7-8 oz. each, compared with about 3 oz. for the lightweight model.
We cut the pipe into sundry lengths, from about 6", I believe, to about 9". What's shown are a 7-1'2" and 8" model. We cut the stock on an angle, so we could use them cam-fashion. And we cut a hole right through the pipe fairly close to one end, again to help with the camming action.
In use, we found we wanted to pound on them so they were well and truly in place. You can see the hammer marks particularly well on the big tube. Indeed, we couldn't get some of them out - they stayed there for some years, might still be there for all I know. In an earlier post I showed the tubes in use on the FA of the route.
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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whats the breaking strength on those silk curtain tassels used to sling them with Tricouni ?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Tricouni's photo of the FA of Pipeline, in 1966. (Posted upthread.)
Looks kind of wintry - although it's a spot that doesn't get a lot of sun.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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whats the breaking strength on those silk curtain tassels used to sling them with Tricouni ?
bmacd, I'm not sure. The light grey stuff is braided nylon, 1/4". It's not climbing grade, I probably got it from a marine-supply place, as many of us got similar stuff for prussik slings and such. Breaking strength is probably 1000 lbs. or so. The reddish brown stuff is weird, very stiff, laid synthetic, about 1/8" to 3/16" in diameter. I had 100 feet of this around for years. It might have been bought by my parents at a garden-supply shop. It was too stiff for most climbing use. Breaking strength? At a guess, 600 lbs.
But we used the pipes for aid; we weren't good enough to free the thing; we didn't know how long the pitch was; and we were kind of spooked by the whole thing.
Mighty: it was a bit wintry. More on that later.
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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we were kind of spooked by the whole thing. No doubt good sir ...
Some classic accounts can be found on the net regarding the Pipeline spook factor.
here is one sample:
http://www3.telus.net/public/7394243/climbing/offwidths/episode5.html
I decided to do some reconnaissance by rappelling down a neighbouring route. I had intended to measure the true width of the crack; unfortunately I dropped my tape measure from the last pitch of another route. I swung over the dramatic edge of the first rappel and, to my utter disbelief, I found somebody on the crux of the route! At the stage that I found him, our brave soul had resorted to aid, and I watched with horror as he weighted a completely tipped out Camelot #5 whilst placing a #3 Big Bro. This lasted until his Camelot no longer fit. Then he swapped his two Big Bros. I decided that his heavy titanium balls were almost certainly offset by his Styrofoam cerebrum, but he made it up, making him more of a man than you, or me, or any of our friends.
Climbing has always been about getting to places where others are not. Pipeline has become the ultimate expression of this desire. In many ways I am fueled by a desire to refute--disprove even--the overwhelming belief that Pipeline is "another man's route". I have spent so long trying to find a person who has done the route specifically because I yearn for some encouragement; I need to believe that I can do it. It is 5 parts horrifying, 5 parts inspiring that I could become that person for others. If I can get my ass up, perhaps I can convince my friends that they could do the same.
Here's to hoping. I'll keep you posted.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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bump for this thread, wide cracks, big cams and having big enough nuts for the job.
Also bump for Greg's on sight first free ascent of Pipeloads, sans cord back in 82?
I'll never forget his rationale, "I could see the crack was big enough to get my knee in so I knew I'd be fine".
Talk about having sufficient "natural wide gear" that day!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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"Let's go throw a little meat at the crack," as Scott Baxter used to say.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Here's the rest of the Pipeline FA story.... if anyone cares...
Leif Patterson and I left Vancouver one late winter morning with an eye to doing the big, obvious, slibhtly overhanging crack on the Squaw at Squamish. It was a truly beautiful morning: blue sky, crisp and cool. By the time we got to Squamish it was still clear and blue, but it was obvious that it had snowed overnight and a couple of inches of fresh, wet snow covered the ledges and much of the Apron. I wasn't totally enthusiastic about the conditions, but Leif said, "well, let's just walk up to the base and have a look."
So we put on boots, rain pants and anoraks (the bush was soaking). We got to the base of what looked like a reasonable line and saw that the snow was melting from the big slab a few pitches below the offwidth. So we peeled off the raingear, roped up, and swapped leads up the bottom two or three pitches. Climbing was pretty easy -- it had to be, with everything covered with wet snow or else soaking wet. We were getting close to the serious stuff, and it looked as if the sun was going to hit the slabs soon and warm us up. Keep going! From a good tree platform, we scrambled right to a bombproof, and dry, tree belay. The corner above was really wet and dripping, so I put the yellow rainpants and anorak back on for this lead (see photo).
I did this about 50% aid, 50% free (yes, I know, I know: it's all free, but you do it with full rainsuit and mountain boots!). In the photo, I'm standing on a snag in the crack. The white stuff on the "horn" of the snag is snow, and you can see more snow shining in the sun just poking over the top of the wall. So yes, Anders, it was wintry.
Anyways, I thrashed up the corner and over the lip onto a narrow, sloping ramp that gradually curled up into the offwidth. I'd been wearing army surplus wool gloves, but even so my fingers were really, really cold. I realized we weren't going any farther that day, but Leif wanted to see. So up he came and we both sort of huddled in the basal part of the offwith and looked up. That's where the pipe idea came from: it was way too wide for any wooden wedges or bongs. We couldn't get any trustworthy pro in. So we pounded in a bolt and rapped off.
After a few weeks we had the first batch of pipes/tubes made - the thin ones. We sucked Barry Hagen into the project, and on a warm, sunny spring day up we went. Unfortunately, we soon realized that we'd underestimated the width of the crack. Most of the pipes were too short and probably too weak to do the job. So off we went, leaving a fixed rope. Over the next few weeks, Leif and I made the Mark II pipes from tube scrounged from Anders' father.
The day of the final ascent was sunny. Up the fixed rope the three of us went (see photo). We all had a go at leading the crack, placing the pipes and worrying about the top one pulling and all of them zippering out - most of them weren't that stable. That's why we placed a protection bolt about half way up; I don't know if it's still there or not. Leif led the upper half, from the bolt to the top. Our 150-foot rope was a bit too short, so the second person had to start simul-climbing while Leif was finishing off the last 10 feet or so.
Then we packed up the gear and walked down to the car.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Thanks for sharing the sporting tale, Triconi!
Sometimes too thin just won't cut it!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It was graded 5.5, A2 in Glenn's 1967 guide to climbing at Squamish. The description:
Start about 100 feet left of a huge, left-facing corner about 100 yards south of Kiddie Corner. Climb an obvious and crack line for 2 leads to a good tree platform (free, only a few moves are 5.5). Traverse right on a slabby ramp, then climb 50 feet of more broken rock to a very solid, gnarled tree. Nail a 40 foot overhanging corner past a roof and climb (5.5) the jam crack beyond to 2 belay bolts.
The last lead is 170 feet long and requires hardware to fit the 6 1/2 inch to 8 inch crack. The first ascent party used 1 1/4 inch diameter aluminum pipe sawed into assorted lengths; about 30 pipes are needed. There is one bolt in place just beneath the overhang and good belay trees at the end of the route.
In addition to the pipes. take a selection of 15 angles up to 2 inches, a few horizontals, a couple of large bongs, and a 200 foot rope. The route will take one day. From the 2 belay bolts it is possible to rappel directly down, using 2 ropes.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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In Gordie Smaill's (edit) 1975 guide, Pipeline was graded 5.5 A2 or 5.10 incomplete.
Start 100 feet left of a huge left facing corner about 100 yards south of Kiddie Corner. Free obvious bush and cracks for two leads to a tree ledge. Traverse right on a ramp then up 50 feet past broken rock to a twisted tree. Free an overhanging corner and jam to belay bolts. The original ascent used pipes to aid this next long lead to top. A cloud of 5.10 or 5.11 surrounds this last bit. 25 inch arms appear to be mandatory here. Protection in this offsize crack is good since some pipes have been left in along with a bolt. This strongly suggests that someone had either made a second ascent, using less aid, or had tried to do it free, and got at least to the base of the big crack. There were several good offwidths climbers around then, including Gordie himself, Al Givler, Steve Sutton, and Hugh Burton.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Alan Kearney, in his North Cascades Select guidebook, alleges that Washington climbers in the 50s or 60s used "plumber's helpers" (adjustable lengths of pipe) to protect wide cracks and that these were the true forerunners of modern tube chocks.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Interesting. Leif at least had considerable contact with Seattle climbers in the early to mid 1960s, and might have heard something. But then, the history of climbers cramming all sorts of odd objects into cracks goes much further back. The bicycle crank in Llanberis Pass in the 1930s, probably stuff in the Dolomites even earlier.
When Pipeline was done in 1966, the cliff it's on was informally known as the Squaw. The other subsidiary crags at Squamish are the Papoose and the Malemute, a bit of a theme. Anyway, the cliff was renamed Slhanay a few years ago, that being considered a more acceptable term by Squamish's First People. I don't know if it's an official name with the CPCGN.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Anyway, the cliff was renamed Slhanay a few years ago, that being considered a more acceptable term by Squamish's First People. I don't know if it's an official name with the CPCGN. It's not official.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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The new name for the Squaw is bogus, I wonder who the hell came up with it?
We are definitely going to die of political correctness.
Reminds me of a quote attributed to the late Sam Kinnison; "The only reason she (a prominent African American actress who starred in the Color Purple) became famous was because the whole world decided not to hurt her feelings.
Back to wide cracks.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Are we supposed to call it "First Peoples' Summer" now?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Chief wrote: The new name for the Squaw is bogus, I wonder who the hell came up with it? "The Chief" newspaper for June 6, 2008, quotes Kevin McLane aqs saying, "I suggested to Donna [Billy, of the Squamish Nation] about a year ago that if Squamish Nation wanted to choose a new name, I could get it established with BC Parks and the district and make sure it appeared in future climbing guide." They chose Slhanay. The paper also says, "The Squaw word has rankled with Squamish Nation for many years, and as a result it dropped off the map as far as government was concerned."
Neither Slhanay nor the Squaw is an official name. Nor, for that matter, are the Malemute or Papoose.
I have no idea how widely, if at all, Kevin consulted within the climbing community.
Back to wide chocks....
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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I have no idea how widely, if at all, Kevin consulted within the climbing community.
As much as usual.
If were going to quit using the term squaw, then let's sh#t can the term Indian (as in Indian Summer or Cowboys and Indians) cause we're no where near India and my Cokum ate beavertails not chapattis.
Back to Pipeloads
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Squaw" is in any case probably an Algonquian word, not found in Coast Salish or any other local language here.
It's also the word for woman in the Chinook jargon, which WAS used here extensively locally for something like 200 years. It was taken from Algonquian for Chinook, true, but every other word in that made-up language was also taken from other languages - Cree, Salish, English, French, you name it. Chinook had an extremely successful run of things but is almost vanished now.
Klahowya tillikum!
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skykilo
Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
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Thanks for the story Tricouni, I loved it.
And nice work on the FFSA, Grug.
I could barely haul myself up that thing with a VG9 and I was feeling it for days after that. I need to jump on it again; my scabs are gone now anyway. Long sleeves next time for sure.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I had no idea that Drew was also a philologist, but shouldn't be surprised. :-)
Use of the loan-word "squaw" in an introduced trade jargon didn't make it a word that was part of the local languages.
What's a "VG9", and who is our new friend skykilo?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Revisionists!
Exactly!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Antidisestablishmentarianists!
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scuffy b
climber
Eastern Salinia
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VG9 would be the Valley Giant cam, Anders.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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I guess I'm wrong about squaw being in Chinook jargon, I always figured it was part of the family grouping
Chief, squaw, papoose, malemute = dad, mom, baby and dog
So are they gonna change the names of the Malemute and the Papoose too? Cause those aren't Salish either.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The toponymy being what it is, it may depend on whether anyone gets a bee in his/her/its bonnet. Presumably if the Squamish First People suggested that the Papoose and Malemute be informally renamed with Coast Salish words equivalent to "child" and "dog", no one would mind. Somehow I doubt that the CPCGN would bother making them official, and whether the names would catch on with climbers is an open question.
It is kind of fun watching climbers, especially the PC variety, wrestling with whether they should say "Slhanay" or "Squaw" - you can almost see the gears turning.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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It all amounts to lot of careful posturing around the "R" word.
Racism is alive and well in Canada. Our society attempts to assuage guilt for past injustice with mismanaged federal funding for aboriginals while big business and unscrupulous band leaders profit from self serving collusion disguised as "First Nation Partnerships". Somehow when aboriginals kill otter, fall old growth trees and sell salmon from the back of pick up trucks it's OK. The renaming of The Squaw is more "whitewash" and aboriginals have proven they're no better at taking care of the land then the honkies.
Take a drive down East Hastings for a clear perspective.
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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I withdrew a post regarding the hypocrisy of first nations behavior earlier today. Chief you can add poaching of Bald Eagles for "ceremonial" uses to that list. I made a trip from Hartley Bay to Bella Bella in 2005 and learned much about the self imposed first nations condition, and in particular how the youth in these communities suffer the most from the questionable wisdom of the elders futile efforts to preserve their culture.
Give up the whinning first nations and integrate yourselves into society like the rest of the immigrants whom are lining up to enter this country.
yes i'm in a bitchy mood this week.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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A MacDonald? One of those whiskey-guzzling, sheep-shagging, Gaelic-speaking barbarians? One of the many who made it to Canada, one step ahead of the sheriff?
And don't get me started on them Norskies.
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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Jim there are many weaknesses in all my arguments, never the less I do love to argue
Anders I am the abandonded at birth son of a Hungarian geologist refugee, left on a scottish doorstep
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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Jim I have 2 days worth of pain killers left, but am hooked up to a really nifty unit circulating cool water around the knee that is doing wonders for the swelling. 20 staples to be removed on the 20th. I can post up some hideous pictures if you like ?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Well, you could circulate the photos, if you like. So to speak. Hope it's not too painful and awkward, that the T3s and lack of motion aren't causing intestinal dysfunctioning, and that you have enough.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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There doesn't seem a lot more to be said about tube chocks, given the history provided by Glenn and Doug. It does suggest that standards and innovation weren't so very different around North America then, despite the distance, and that some impressive although perhaps little-noticed climbs were being done here. It's not like Squamish was the centre of the climbing universe, but still...
It would be nice if, having shown that tube chocks (of a sort) were used in Squamish in 1966, we could go on to show that hexes, stoppers, penicillin, smarties, slacklining, and the single transferable ballot were also invented in Squamish. But it seems a stretch, even for the most parochial.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Sep 10, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
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I recall walking into a campsite in J Tree with a #3 big bro stuck down the left leg of my Prana pants
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 15, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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Hey, for some reason I hadn't seen this thread since Tricouni (or Chief, for that matter) posted to it. Nice to hear from the first ascensionist and creator of those tube chocks. Seeing them brought on an instant recognition and flashback (I treasure those moments, because I don't always remember the past so well).
I gotta say, I just read Mike Hengeveld's Offwidth 8 part series from start to finish. Sheesh, that's writing I could only aspire to. My wife and I were in tears from Part III on.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 15, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
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Get a little jiggy with the button on the #3 and it could have given new meaning to the word "sprung!"
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 15, 2010 - 11:57pm PT
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There is still the interesting question as to when Pipeline had its second ascent, unless Greg's was the second ascent.
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Oct 16, 2010 - 12:04am PT
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 16, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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Whenever I get around to finally noticing a thread like this,
well, I don't have energy to read the whole thing, and I wish I could
be clear in the details that, yes we were using tube chocks of a sort
as far back as about '65... nothing refined, rather crude... I don't
think I liked them and hardly did use any, but people had them. I think
I recall thinking it was a way to get around leading a scary pitch, and
a part of me liked the idea but another part thought we were trying to
keep from rising to the level of the climb... or something... Then a few
years later I saw some version that had a telescopic effect and could be
greatly enlarged almost to full chimney size.... well, not quite...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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So Tricouni and I were talking about obscure climbs and their history tonight, as we sometimes do. He referred to a photo and description of a climb in Culbert's "Alpine Guide to Southwest B.C." (1974). I got looking at other climbs on the cliff, and saw Dick's comment about Pipeline:
"..winds up in a rather serious crack which was aided originally with 6 1/2 - 8 inch sections of aluminum pipe. The route has not been repeated ATP, but the Pipeline crack has been climbed free to its final overhanging nose, and is very demanding."
The photo shows the crack as being graded 5.6, 5.9 and then near the top at 5.10, followed by an A4 bit.
So, who in the world was freeing most of Pipeline pre-1974, not to mention pre-1979, when Greg soloed it? Al Givler? Gordie Smaill? Hugh Burton or Steve Sutton?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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wide bump
tricouni- the bolts still there or has been replaced and people thank god for it whenever they lead pipeline!
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