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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 23, 2006 - 06:06am PT
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The General Consensus is that this is a new word:
NANOOK: V.; to retrobolt a rivet ladder to make it more safe; to downgrade a drilled wall pitch to make it more safe; to remove the excitement of a rivet pitch by placing more secure anchors; to cross the line between safety and excitement on a wall by excessively drilling when repairing old anchors; to irritate old climbers by forgetting that they were there first; to replace more dangerous rivets with more secure bolts, as on a route that should be considered dangerous (and not for Gumby) from the ground to the summit; to be overly attentive to the safety of others, without recognizing that a lack of safety is a valuable trait of a wall climb.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 23, 2006 - 08:55am PT
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Nanook of the North was a child's story about an eskimo, a long long time ago.
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Robb
Social climber
Flathead Valley, Montana
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May 23, 2006 - 11:02am PT
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Nanook also took care of that fur trapper who was strictly from commercial.
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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May 23, 2006 - 11:13am PT
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Nanooked (na-new'-ke-ed'): verb: To restore a rivet ladder to the level of safety experienced by the first ascent. (Also see "Wings of Steel" Z-Mac holding 40 foot falls when first drilled: pg.354 sec. M23)
This definition is only applicable to aid climbing, an outdated form of ascent circa. 1972.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 23, 2006 - 11:32am PT
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So how did it get from a beloved eskimo's name to an aid term?
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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May 23, 2006 - 01:40pm PT
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Replacing with 1/4" x 1" plated steel Rawl split-shaft death anchors.
Nanook or not?
Is nanooking relative or absolute or both?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 23, 2006 - 02:00pm PT
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Isn't "nanook" eskimo for polar bear? It is Erik's Valley nickname.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 23, 2006 - 03:48pm PT
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"Nanooked (na-new'-ke-ed'): verb: To restore a rivet ladder to the level of safety experienced by the first ascent. (Also see "Wings of Steel" Z-Mac holding 40 foot falls when first drilled: pg.354 sec. M23)
This definition is only applicable to aid climbing, an outdated form of ascent circa. 1972."
Exactly. When the adventure of a climb depends on the status of somebody else old drilled pro, it's time to redefine what your climbing is about.
If that stuff needs to be replaced it should be replaced to last. Thanks to Nanook for the public service
Respect but not agreement to those who feel otherwise
Peace
Karl
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 23, 2006 - 03:52pm PT
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So, it's callend Nanooked because a guy nicknaned Nanook followed the procedure outlined above?
Fascinating captain.
Good, I can sleep now!
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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May 23, 2006 - 04:55pm PT
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*yawn*
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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May 23, 2006 - 05:24pm PT
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Tom,
just curious here. In another thread you mentioned finding many old 1/4 inch bolts that you wanted to get rid of. In this one you mention some guy who seems to get lots of flak on this site for replacing mank with good stuff. Having placed some of those old 1/4 inchers I know when I place one I have some degree of confidence in them. Now spin back 25 years and stare one in the face. We now know they are not good. What seems to be the problem with replacing the mank with good stuff?
Just curious. I tend to agree with Karl,
"When the adventure of a climb depends on the status of somebody else old drilled pro, it's time to redefine what your climbing is about."
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lost
climber
truckee
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May 23, 2006 - 09:31pm PT
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Correct me if I am wrong, but is not the point of a bolt or rivet to make upward progress and even safe at that? I do understand a good portion of you desk jockies do require some sort of stimulation from your day to day cube dwellings, but I would think it a waste of time to put 'shit' sh#t into the rock.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 23, 2006 - 09:36pm PT
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Lost, the old sh!t was the new sh!t back before we had todays good sh!t, and so people like to give sh!t for messing with the sh!t some old sh!t used when he was in the sh!t.
But it's not the same old sh!t.
Does that help?
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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May 23, 2006 - 09:45pm PT
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This has been beaten, or is it a tempest in a teapot? :)
I feel the point is to retain the vision the FA had when repairing a climb. This means you need to talk to the FA if possible. If not, find out how the climbing comunity feels about the bolts/rivets you are about to replace or chop on your project. That seems to be more in the spirit of giving back than just doing what you alone feel is right. The routes are for evrybody who may want to climb them. Am I oversimplifying it? Gabe
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2006 - 10:27pm PT
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just curious here. In another thread you mentioned finding many old 1/4 inch bolts that you wanted to get rid of.
I showed the box of old bolts to demonstrate what used to be used for belays and other anchors. I don't recall saying I was trying to get rid of them, except in a later post when I said I would sell them for $100 each.
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hobo
climber
PDX
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May 23, 2006 - 10:35pm PT
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verbing weirds language.
Name the reference to the quote above, and ill buy some beer and drink it with you if i see you this summer.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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May 23, 2006 - 10:35pm PT
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What Gabe said. At least somebody in this forum has a sense of respect for those that created.
Here's how to use this sentence: I climbed Ten Days After two weeks ago and was disappointed to find it got nanooked.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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May 23, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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well, thanks for satisfying my curiousity. Really.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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May 24, 2006 - 12:03am PT
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Hey, Mike… You mean THIS terrace??? The one at the base of Kaos?
Note 12-inch yellow ruler at left for scale. The dark, sub-horizontal line above the ruler represents the original surface level of the base; material was removed by Erik Sloan to ‘flatten’ the area, thus exposing 12 to 20 inches of the wall. “Manufacturing” details can be found on various threads in this forum. Photo taken October 2005.
This “terrace” has existed for a while now (a few years). I saw Sloan at the base not long after the manufactured bivy site appeared. My bros and I moved random boulders back to the flat area to make it look more natural. I told Erik this at the time that I saw him, but he simply replied that it wouldn’t take much effort to move the boulders again. And that was that. To this day, the site is still flat.
Anyone who has spent much time at the base remembers what it used to look like – a chaotic assemblage of talus that had fallen from above. There never was a smooth pathway between the start of Kaos and the start of Zenyatta; you had to scramble over random boulders. But now, it is all ‘humanized’ – changed/altered/compromised, just like what has happened to our wall routes. What is the point of all of this? Why do we need another man-made flat spot at the base of El Cap when there are several natural ones to either side… the base of the Trip, the Surgeon, etc…???
I believe that Sloan was also cited by NPS for recklessly trundling random boulders and blocks off of the ledge system that leads from the first belay of the Trip to El Cap Tree. What was the point of this – to CREATE a safer climbing environment? Is safety the climber’s responsibility, or the responsibility of the guidebook authors? Was the base ‘cleared’ before this trundling incident occurred? How much was Sloan fined? Was this a ‘responsible’ act?
I have nothing personal against Erik. I just strongly disagree with what he has done to our climbing resources in Yosemite. His actions are nothing more than irresponsible and they endanger our freedoms as climbers with respect to land managers. Donny Reid never screwed things up for the rest of us…
Thanks for your good words, brother Gabe. Glad to see that some climbers are still thinking clearly… As for the rest, all I can express is total disappointment. Do you people even know what REAL aid climbing is all about??? I seriously wonder.
-Bryan
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2006 - 12:12am PT
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Gee wiz Minerals
What is REAL aid climbing?
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lost
climber
truckee
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May 24, 2006 - 12:16am PT
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So what is so visionary about a bolt ladder? Sounds more like an abomination than anything else and might as well keep it legit. I do not clip bolts or rivets with the hopes that they fail and I hardly doubt the original hacker intended it to be scary for themselves, of course there are the "tommy tuff guy" types that disagree.
Minerals, great pic of the terrace, you know I would charge somewhere around $800-$1500 for that much earthwork.
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lost
climber
truckee
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May 24, 2006 - 12:34am PT
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Minerals, last 87 times I have been climbing in the Valley there is no community just the cool people and everyone else. I just thank dog that I am married so I dont have to attempt to be cool anymore. There is no open dialouge in the climbing community, only conjecture and attitude. Lets get down to the whole what did you do today b.s. that was going around in the early 00's. Who f*#king cares cept the cool people. Other evidence is that climbers as lobbying group to landmangers is about as weak as it gets.
There are no standars and our attempts at being a counter culture do nothing but to harm us.
I dont think what I wrote makes sense, but enough libations makes everything reasonable.
So I still want to know why put in semi-permanent hardware knowing that it will be bomber for you, but no one else? Seems pointless and somewhat selfish. One would tend to think that in a real world application that this theory does not work. It comes down to liabilty, should one sue an fa'ist for faulty hardware this does seem to be the future. I do not condone or support anyones actions along any of the bolting wars, it all seems silly.
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Loom
climber
167 stinking feet above sea level : (
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May 24, 2006 - 01:04am PT
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Nanooking is not just about bolts. When Erik built a retaining wall and leveled the base of Kaos that was public service nanookery too. If you ever need to bivy a small army at the base of the Captain you can use the nanook-nooky-nook® now.
If Erik were properly funded, I'm sure he would be more than willing to nanook many other nanookable areas of our lives as well . . . and make 'em last.
WWNND?
For hikers he (and ASHA) could nanookize the cables on Half Dome. If we chipped in and bought Erik some mules, 2" drills, explosives, pickaxes, cable, winches, cyclone fencing and a three month supply of food and weed, I'm sure he'd love to create a switch-back staircase with cyclone fencing safety walls in place of those manky cables, and you better believe it would be built to last.
In a gesture of good will towards Minerals, Erik will soon sneak into the homes of black powder muzzle loaders and western single action afficionados to nanook their weapons with replacement full auto rifles--of course the nanookualizers will all have safeties, trigger locks, magazine-out trigger blocks, etc. Those fools that are so concerned with what others used to shoot just need to get over their anachronistic fetishes and realize how unsafe, unreliable, and inefficient their weapons are. Get a life.
Drive a vintage car? Not no more. No Bluebook, it just got took by your bro NAN-OOK! Now you have a Hummer, it may last, but what a bummer, you'll have fun getting gassed.
Recently there was a couple who retraced John Muir's walk from Oakland to Yosemite that he took after he first arrived in San Francisco. They had to alter their route significantly because of freeways and unsympathetic landowners.
That route has changed. Parts of it have been hammered out. But perhaps the nanookers at CalTrans can retro the Muir route with an oleander lined concrete bike path.
The character of a route is influenced by many things. For some the experiential difference between an original man-made dowel ladder and the 3/8" bolts with hangers that Nanook replaces them with is significant--maybe it isn't important to you--but some people care about it; yes, yes there are more important things to worry about such as global warming, the latest ragmyt troll, and the return of Holden Caulfield's midlife crisis aka drkodos. But we should be able to reach a solution here. We can start by asking why "replaced to last" is so important? 1/4" buttonheads are easily replaceable, are a satisfying compromise to maintain the "feel" of the route, and are perfectly safe for ladders. It doesn't have to be all or nothing: you know--break Erik's fingers and chase him out of Yos or get down on your knees and thank him for every single bolt he places. Let's tell him "thank you" for replacing original anchor and protection bolts with bomber gear, but tell him to either leave the rivets and chicken rivets alone or replace rivets with 1/4"ers and chop the chicken rivets.
Scott
(edit) Good post Minerals. I started writing this earlier and finished after taking a break; didn't see your post until now.
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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May 24, 2006 - 01:57am PT
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Great Scott!! your ANALogies are over the top.
can you tell me how to replace a 1/4 incher that was botched when drilled, without making the hole bigger? A lot of the old 1/4 inch holes are wallowed out.
How do I pull out a machine head and reuse the hole?
How do I explain the 6 week climbing trip this summer to my girlfriend? Will I be able to reuse her hole when I get back?
Just for the record, I have done 6 walls with Erik, and I have NEVER seen him add a bolt. The last wall we did, we used 1/4 inch rivets, which we placed with a hand drill.
This will be my last post for awhile so I will not be able to reply until next week, I am off to Summersville WV. to do some deep water soloing.
Have fun with your lynch mob.
Rich
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2006 - 01:59am PT
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Hahahaha too funny
Hi Rich .....
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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May 24, 2006 - 02:58am PT
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Ha! It makes me smile that you laugh Werner. It must seem like the never ending saga in your eyes. Years of the same. But is it too much to ask that future generations will have the same view up there?
I think we can preserve what we find valuable. At least, I hope. Cheers to all. Gabe
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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May 24, 2006 - 06:01am PT
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Gabe nice post, I agree, "to retain the vision the FA had when repairing a climb"
Cheers to you my friend!
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