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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 5, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
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My buddy just called me up and wants to climb Zodiac in two days (two days on the wall, not starting in two days) but he wants to do it soon. I have been practicing lots of clean aid, but have never pounded a pin and would prefer to do the route as clean as possible. Any suggestions? Any help is much appreciated. Yes i know i am absolutely positively going to die. I hate asking for wall beta, but hey, everyone is a noob at some point, and I figure the more info I get from people who know what they are doing, the better chance I have at making it.... wall vets help a brother out!
and yes...i know....I'M GONNA DIE!!!
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
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I'm expecting about 80% flaming and 20% help from this one haha...let's see what happens....
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nature
climber
CO
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Evaluate how determined your buddy is to get up the wall in two days. Will he still be your buddy if it takes three days?
The thing is.... if you do it IAD then you don't have a bunch of crap. if you plan for even one night you pretty much have the same amount of crap as for 7 nights (minus water/food/weed).
Edit: that was 80% help and 20% flame :-)
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
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^good point. We both have to work the following day, so it's not a matter of ego or desire to do it in that time, but more of a matter of necessity. He is pretty laid back, I'm sure we would still be cool.
Edit: that was 80% help and 20% flame :-)
Thanks :)
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nature
climber
CO
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well... zodiac isn't a bad route to retreat from. Just launch yourself and pretend to be a chicken. that landing is all worked out.
on the second morning you either decide to go for it or you bail. either way you learn something.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Bring cobras, and wear colourful clothing, otherwise Tom E will be upset.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I've taken less experienced partners up Zodiac a few times and, unless you are remarkably talented figuring out systems and cleaning/jugging, there's no way you're going to get up that thing in Two days
Just something to keep in mind so you're prepared for the alternative
You can climb 5.13 but if you don't have unclusterf*#king skills and aren't really efficient, it takes time to develop the right chops to go that fast
peace
karl
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Short fix, and pay attention to making sure you eat and drink continuosly through the days (lots of people get distracted or leave the stuff in the haulbag and don't eat all day). Take some cam hooks. Link what you can, lead in blocks.
You might consider fixing to 3 with a couple ropes, then going to Peanut to sleep, then topping out. Don't need to haul a ledge that way. Still two days of climbing, just split over a half-day, full day, half-day.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
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thanks for the advice karl. I actually have been practicing jugging/cleaning and unclusterf*#king techniques, so I feel fairly confident there
Elcapinyoazz, thanks. I do tend to rush and not eat and drink. I'll run that option by him and see what he thinks. and we will definitely be shortfixing
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Prod
Trad climber
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You've never done a wall? How about your Buddy?
If it is a first for both of you, or even just one of you, I'd take your time and enjoy it. The best part of walling is camping on the wall. Everything else is either hard work or scary as hell.
Prod.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
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he's done plenty. this will be my first. I have been trying to line up partners for the past month to climb, but he is the only one who isn't a flake so i figure i'll go with him and even though it will be rushed it will be a good experience, and will at the very least be type 2 fun
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Prod
Trad climber
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Don't be his belay bitch. Make sure you get your leads in. I'd personally not do a wall in a rush for my first wall. It just does not sound like fun, and you have sith tons more to learn, why clutter it up with worrying about time. Climbing is supposed to be fun...
Prod.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 07:02pm PT
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^you are probably right prod. I have just been itching to get on a wall. However, when the options for that time period are go up a wall with him, or keep sitting at home and reading the big walls book, I'm gunna go suffer and climb :)
and i will not be belay bitch that's FER SURE!! haha
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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Tried to do the Nose in two days once. It was my partner's first wall (I'd done a few). We didn't make it, but had a great time, but in retrospect I'd have done a smaller wall and topped out. Don't let your partner talk you into this situation - it'll probably feel like your fault when you don't make it (you being less experienced, slower), but it's his bad planning. You'll never make it. It will suck bailing off El Cap.
Plan for 4 days for Zodiac or go climb something on the Leaning Tower or the Column.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 08:49pm PT
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You'll never make it
Now there's the motivation I needed!!!
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Prod
Trad climber
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it'll probably feel like your fault when you don't make it (you being less experienced, slower), but it's his bad planning. You'll never make it. It will suck bailing off El Cap.
Plan for 4 days for Zodiac or go climb something on the Leaning Tower or the Column.
Agree, but skip the tower and column, get on Zodiac and enjoy it. Is your partner a selfish dude? Why would he want to take a noob on a quasi-push?
Prod.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2012 - 12:00am PT
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We are there for three days so I'm hoping i can talk him into fixing a few pitches on the first day and then blast
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WBraun
climber
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4 days on Zodiac?
Don't some sauerkraut eating euros do the whole route in the morning in a couple of hours?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Think what you like, but I don't rush anything. The Groove takes Time.
And The Groove is Good.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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If you can even follow Zodiac in two days on your first wall, you're beyond mortal (and there's been a few) I have doubts you've really practiced enough if you haven't done an aid climb longer than a couple pitches before. There's a lot to know.
Like how you guys plan to fire the Nipple pitch and follow it? It's practically horizontal for a long ways. It's tricky to follow it fast unless your partner just plans to back clean for 50 feet and then hopefully youre prepared to lower yourself out that far.
It's quite OK for you to lead nothing. Don't listen to these puritans. You'll learn way too much even trying to follow it in two days. Nobody leads fast enough on their first wall not to mess up a two day Zodiac pace.
If you pull it off, my hat's off! Probably won't hurt to try. If you fail, it will still be an epic experience. Hopefully your partner is cool either way
Advice: headlamps and a back-up headlamp and fresh batteries, Cheater stick might help your partner leading fast and clipping fixed stuff while bailing to stay near the rock
Peace
Karl
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2012 - 01:31am PT
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Thanks for all the tips karl. Definitely some good things to think about. I know he really wants to climb that route, but we are going to see what's crowded when we get there and play it by ear
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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Double what Karl said for lowering out the bag, lowering out yourself, and cleaning traverses ? Partner can really bone you depending on what he leaves or doesn't. That's 90% , the other 10% says fix to 4 then bail. Get back to work on time and tell everybody you thought
"you were going to die !!"
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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I know a guy who practiced everything for zodiac in a tree.
Fired it in 3 days.
Just saying.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2012 - 02:02am PT
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I know a guy who practiced everything for zodiac in a tree.
Fired it in 3 days.
Just saying.
That's what i wanted to hear haha. I'm pretty good at figuring sh#t out... I'm still thinking I'm biting off a bit more than I can chew, but three days seems more doable
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Whatever happens. We want a TR!
It's not implausible to go up for a two day ascent of Zodiac but make some marginal preparations in case it's three days. Zodiac is surprisingly shady a lot in june so two days of water might last three so bring some Hi Calorie light food.
Couple more tips, The second can tie the haul bag in short on Pitch 2 and the Nipple pitch and keep the end during the haul, and then the leader fixes it when the bag is at the belay, Then it can come in handy for the second when cleaning Pitch 2 and the Nipple pitch cause it's hanging from the belay and not straight sideways
Tr from a little epic I had on the route once here
http://yosemiteclimber.com/Zodiacthreelegs.html
here's an image of my partner doing the haul rope cleaning trick on the nipple
Photo credit Tom Evans of course
Peace
Karl
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Two days, huh?
My first attempt on EC was the Nose...my 'partner' was all fired up, and wanted to do it in two days...I was skeptical, but a wide-eyed n00b, so I gave it my best shot. And got humbled, mightily.
Next EC attempt was about 3 years later, on the Zodiac. Took us 4 days, but goddamit...we did it.
Of course, that was a long time ago, and things are different now.
Or maybe not.
Go give it a shot, and report back!
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Not sure about the beta to sleep on peanut ledge and not bring a portaledge. I did the route with a portaledge that didn't work (kept flipping into hourglass shape and spitting me out) and remember there were not good places to sleep.
Also I did back clean a lot to try to minimize the rope drag at the nipple spot, but also don't recommend that since the upper part of the nipple are more technical aid placements, for me it was the first time I used birdbeaks, rurps, etc. Somewhere in the middle of that I realized that aid climbing could be dangerous. Otherwise, though, I thought the route was fairly moderate - relatively short and easy hauling.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Yeah, sleeping two on Peanut is pretty rough, but doable.
Kait and I just tried to do the Zodiac in 2 days and ended up doing it in 2 1/2, although we did do the first 7 pitches of the Straw which took a bit more time. It was her 4th El Cap route and I was short-fixing the entire route, she knows what she's doing and did really well. My fastest was 5 1/2 hours, I led the entire route.
I guess my point is that 2 days is really pushing it for your first wall. Plan on plenty of night climbing, it can be done. Cheers!
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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I remember serious winds in the afternoons on that side of El Cap, ropes have to be totally under control, maybe coil them in bags. Plus you can count on the route being in the shade most of the afternoon.
Maybe peanut ledge was ok to sleep on, but first night there was no ledge at all. Maybe at the black tower? My partner just laughed at me, said that nights sleeping in the ledge was the best part of the route for him. For me it was hanging in my harness and shifting positions to keep blood flowing to all extremeties.
I climbed it in 3 days (20 years ago) with a partner I had not climbed with before. It was my first real aid route, although not my first el Cap route. I nailed it though, maybe scarier to do it clean, as they do these days. There is also an offwidth/chimney high up on the route. I think I had to lead that in sneakers.
If I were you I would bring plenty of water. If you don't do the route in the time you thought, you can't really bail. Also remember people always stash water at the top of the Nose, in case you need it.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Yep, sleeping two on Peanut would kinda suck, and not just because it would be spooning-time. Ledge smells like a urinal.
But still, these dudes saying "take 4 days", well, then you gotta haul enough sh#t for 4 days, and hauling sucks. You gotta take a portaledge...more weight, more time, more cluster, gotta take a a haul line...more weight, more time.
Sure, wall camping can be fun. But only if you have the time to enjoy it and aren't so worked from hauling and climbing and dealing with the cluster-funk that you can actually sit back, relax, and look around. Those first walls in full-on haul the kitchen sink style usually leave you so worked you're too tired to even make dinner.
Go for it man. Worst case you suffer through some night climbing or bail.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Yep, sleeping two on Peanut would kinda suck, and not just because it would be spooning-time. Ledge smells like a urinal.
I wish I could have done some spooning, you really can't. We slept feet to feet and I had to rig my aiders around my legs to keep them from slipping off the ledge. And it might have just been because it was early in the season but it didn't smell too bad last time I was up there... not sure why people piss on ledges anyway when there's plenty of air it can evaporate in.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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There should definitely be a rule about not peeing on ledges. I remember being really scared on the nose, my first route. On the El Cap Tower ledge, I was laying with my face pressed into a 90 degree granite corner where the ledge met the wall, it smelled like urine. I remember having some confused dream that I was in jail but couldn't remember what I did to get put in jail. Then I realized where I was, 2000 feet off the deck sleeping on a narrow ledge.
Another thing I have found is water bottles full of urine, stuffed into cracks at bivy ledges. Why do people do that? I rescued a guy who ran out of water on the nose, but was collecting those urine bottles thinking he would drink them if he got desperate. Luckily he didnt have to.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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Thanks for the beta everyone! Heading to the Valley tonight. Definite mix of emotions right now!!!! :D :O
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Prod
Trad climber
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I had to rig my aiders around my legs to keep them from slipping off the ledge.
I slept on that little ledge at the top of pitch 15 on Zodiac, got there late and too lazy to set up my portaledge, that was just stupid...
Anyway a few times I woke up to my leg falling into the abyss. Talk about heart attack. F*#k that was an odd feeling.
Good luck up there, and have fun!
Prod.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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I slept on that little ledge at the top of pitch 15
We did too...after my dumb ass got off route as the sun set and went way left just before that ledge, hooked out some flake until it stopped and dead-ended at a blank headwall, then had to reverse it. Don't even remember whether we set up the ledge, I'm thinking no, we were worked.
I do remember falling asleep at that belay before I started hauling, waking up when I hit the end of my tether as I was falling off the ledge, and going "whoa! wonder how long I was asleep?", looked down and Alan was about halfway up cleaning the pitch...guess it was 5min, felt like I'd slept about 4 hours.
WOO HOO! Get some.
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2012 - 06:17pm PT
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Got to the valley on Thursday and zodiac was packed. To be honest I was kind of ok with this. After walking around and scoping different lines we decided to do the prow. We fixed to pitch 3 Thursday afternoon and sent the route of Friday. Awesome climb and I'm stoked I got my first wall under my belt. TR coming soon!! Thanks for everyone that chimed in. Zodiac is in the near future....
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Congrats on what sounds like an excellent decision (not that I'd know from experience - no walls under my belt). Looking forward to the TR!
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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I think I'm the only person who has posted to this thread who has slept, in party of two, on Peanut ledge.
One person lay down and (I assume) got some sleep. The other person sat up on the end of the ledge most of the night or sort of slumped over halfway in a ball. Both of were pretty small and weighed less than 130 pounds and it SUCKED.
If I explain that this was because we couldn't assemble the f*#king portaledge the story becomes funny, doesn't it.
Kate
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Congrats on the Prow! Great first wall. You def made the right call. I'd say failure attempting Zod with 1 Bivi (even after fixing) would have been %99 gauranteed. Add a bunch of other parties and clusterf*#k factor would be huge.
Kate, that's hilarious!
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Zodiac is the stage for many scenes that are hilarious in retrospect. :)
Congrats to the OP!
-Kate.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Jun 10, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
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Congrats on your first wall! Let the stoke begin and good luck with future ascents.
I think I'm the only person who has posted to this thread who has slept, in party of two, on Peanut ledge.
No, read above Kate ;)
We slept like baby's but that's probably because we both "tried" to sleep on the small ledge at top of 7, the night before.
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| Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic |
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