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Luke
Novice climber
Gunnison, CO
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 29, 2001 - 02:10pm PT
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Yo what up peoples. The Black Canyon National Park contains Colorados biggest and scariest walls, it also contains
many hidden gems that have descent quality rock, now that Robbie Williams has published a guide for this area
the SECRET is out, this place rocks. It is one of the most remote climbing areas in the lower 48 and is now a destination
for some of the top big wall climbers such as Topher Donehue and Brent Armstrong. THe rock or weather is not as
good as the Valley but the lack of crowds definately makes up for that. SO anyway would you rather climb in the
Black on a wall and feel the solitude and fear or go to the Valley and enjoy wonderful rock as well as alot more people
(which are usually wonderful as well). Comments...... my comment is I'd rather climb in the Valley but the black is pretty much
in my backyard, so i climb in the black. Any routes that compare in the two places? I'd say Casually off-ROute in the
Black compares with Nutcracker, but i'm just a novice.
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King Cobra
Novice climber
anywhere but the black
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2001 - 01:07pm PT
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OK, first off the black sucks! Loose rock, no rescue, no water, no bolts, lots of poison ivy so you can't get jiggy with your girl/boy after the climb. IF you make it back to camp before midnight that is.
The valley...beautiful rock, beautiful woman, cheap malt liquor, sunny weather(that you can see coming in before it is raining on you with no rain jacket).
While amazing climbers have been going to both places for quite awhile (Kor tore the sh#t out of both of them). I see a tendency for good climbers to gravitate more towards Yosemite.
Topher climbs anywhere he wants, not just the black.
WHO THE HELL IS BRENT ARMSTRONG?????
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Raw Dog
Novice climber
Just lost in America
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2001 - 05:18pm PT
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Who cares?
Yosemite, the Black, Rock, ice. Who cares man? I'll climb it all. I've been to the Black and Yosemite and there's no comparison to be made. First and formost there's no women in the Black (perhaps all the ladies out there could prove me wrong). King Cobra has a point about the malt liquor thing. We only drink wine coolers in the Black. In the Black we'd be more likely to compare a jaunt up the cruise to....say After Six.
All in all I'm pretty sure nobody really gives a sh#t about this comparison. The Valley will always be the place to go.
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Burt
Advanced climber
Crawford, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2001 - 10:02am PT
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Who in the hell is luke!!! Has he ever been benighted with a hot chick in the Black???? I have?? Sorry to say but there is a plethora of buck toothed babes in the black, come on down and join us and all the family. We have plenty of King Cobras and wine coolers. Just wonderin' about the wine coolers, I drink moonshine. I guess all you boys from the valley can't hang with the real babes much less the inbred A5 soldiers. Aw f*#k it anyway
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Ranger Joe
Novice climber
Crawford
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2001 - 10:04pm PT
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yes good points on the black boys, its in the middle of nowhere there are no chicks (well maybe a few) and
the rock pretty much sucks. No i haven't ever been benighted in the Black with a hot chick, raw Dog but hopefully
my day will come, all i hope is that i never get benighted with you. One more thing the raw dog was wrong about
though is the rescue, there is a team that pulled off a couple epic rescues down there on the N.Chasm Wall but
i heard it was a bunch of punk ass college kids at Western State. Well see everyone in the Valley and probably
not in the Black.
Ohyeah i met that Brent kid too and i'd definately hide my girlfriend from him:)
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Keepin it real
Intermediate climber
I'm not sure anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2001 - 01:05pm PT
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To all my thugs out there,
Could we all just stop talking about this "valley" place. We know it's just a bunch of girlies that hang there. If you are interested in hangin with the real gangstas you would look no further than the Black Canyon. Deep within this gaping gash of love you will find cracks to jam your fingers in, flakes to pop, heads that blow and all the other sorts of erotic happiness us wally boys look for. The lack of women in these parts only makes us harder, if you know what I mean. I'm sure the A5 inbred soldier does. Or should I call him "Handy"?
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rock jock
Novice climber
yosemite, colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2001 - 02:43pm PT
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I wanted to pass on a bit of information to the folks that climb in the black especially sinquensu ocho, that is that I sh#t bigger than you and the black canyon!!!
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BrentA
Novice climber
here and there in colorado
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...will the real slim shady please stand up...
So I don't know where to start with this one, I road trip for four days and all heck breaks loose on the message board, with heavy slander directed at my favorite crag and myself.
First off, thanks for the shout out Lukester! One day I will loose the bigwall stigma. The Black is primarily free climbing, and if it once WAS an aid route Johnny Copp, Topher, or Mike P. are going to pass you running down a gully and simul climb up these old aid lines laughing the whole time. I haven't met too many inbred A5 soldiers down there, and believe me I have looked. Besides we all know there is no A5. LUckily the valley syndrome of stopwatches and one upping times hasn't reared its ugly head down there too much yet, but I suspect it is only a matter of time.
I have been beighted with the raw dog, and this prompted my single push mentality as I hope never to sleep next too or near him again. But I have to agree...what comparison. I have spent time in both areas and they offer completely different buzzes. After my first lap up El Cap I spied the Black for the first time and about pissed myself. The ambiance, demons, and commitment are at a much higher degree than in Yosemite. The beers are much cheaper in Yosemite, the eye candy better (the only hotties I've ever seen in the black are the ones I brought with me), weather btter. I personally consider zyosemite a learning/training area. After I cut my teeth there I movedx on to other areas.
One of the best evolutions of my climbing life ccame the day I learned to leave the second rope and all the other bullcrap on the rim and just CLIMB!!! They have been doing that for decades in the Black.
Stay in the valley!!! Few people who come to the black ever return to climb there, and those that do are often twisted and demented in ways seldom viewed outside Colorado.
In regards to hiding your women from me...THIS WOULD BE GOOD BETA!!! In all seriousness, if I didn't smile at you too it is probably because you were a jerk. Anyone who knows me well, or ANYONE who has ever tied in with me can attest to the fact that I'm a pretty "typical drunk bastard" who is a lot of fun to hang with, and a really good guy to hand the rack to with the sun going down and no water left.
The valley is a vacation, the Black is an adventure!!!
I hope I never see any of you down there!
Sincerely,
White Devil
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Ken
Advanced climber
Neptunes, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2001 - 11:23am PT
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The pages in my guidebook keep falling out! What kind of fly by night outfit put this book together. Where are the black canyon supertopos? How am I suppossed to tell what gear to take up with me on lead. I can't even tell where most of these piles begin in the canyon?
My girlfriend gave Mr. Williams her phone # the other night, and rest assured I will have my vengence. Who would worry about that Brent kid stealing their honey, he's balder than a cue ball.
Supertopos and stopwatches for all the inbreds!!
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Robbie
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2001 - 01:34pm PT
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To all my friends who have spent the past week wasting their time slandering each other here, you guys should get out of the bar and go climbing. Oh yeah Ken or should I say Brent the date with your girlfriend last night was great! You should have told me earlier she was so great in bed! If you spent more time at home and less time getting benighted with Ryan, she wouldn't have to come looking for me. Ryan, I guess Megan is next on my list.
On a serious note to anyone whos pages have fallen out of their guide book I am truly sorry. We are reprinting all the books now. In a few week we will have all new books. You can return the old ones to the store you purchased it from, for a new book, or email me at climbingtheblack@hotmail.com and I will send you a new book as soon as I get the reprints.
Thanks,
Robbie
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Ryan
Intermediate climber
Colorful Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2001 - 01:40pm PT
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Dude!
Stay away from Meghan. You don't even know how to spell her name. B-rads chicks are always easy to steel so just stick to them. I hear he's got this new one named Bonnie that we should all be lining up for. She's fine and we're in there as soon as she sees his bald ass head. And by the way somebody needs to come up with a new topic. We've worked this Yosemite vs. The Black thing to death.
Get the hell out of the computer lab and go rub your rock .
I'm outeeeeee!
The infamous Rye Guy
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Brent
Novice climber
Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2001 - 02:16pm PT
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You chimps know I always kick down once I'm done with 'em. I guess you can slander a man's woman around here, but not his guidebook.
I think we have spurned a new topic with the adventure climbing area guidebook topic.
Odd how none of the Cali boys chimed in on this one.
Well since Ry-guy is now in a new "super model" harem I guess we won't be benighted anytime soon.
To all my chimps, friends and mountain thugs...
Piss off! keep thuggin, and I'll bring the wine coolers.
On the DL but still in your hearts,
B
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Salt Lake City
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Sep 20, 2005 - 04:50pm PT
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this thread is a gem.
easiest route is maiden voyage for sure.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Sep 20, 2005 - 05:00pm PT
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HAHAHAHA, radical all those guys are still here!
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BrentA
Gym climber
estes park
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Sep 21, 2005 - 01:48am PT
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This is some funny stuff. I will have to forward this thread to Ryan. Few seasons back...this was some funny stuff.
I hope I never soften, even in my coffin,
Brent
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Original Wookie
Trad climber
Colorado Springs, CO
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So one day at work I decide to check up on an old friend and see if he has found his way into any new stories..... and what do I run across! Very interesting reading.
Even though these entries are old, some very old... I feel like one (didn't know you were such a hound dog) of Brent's old girlies out to say hi. So to Ryan, Luke (met you once) and of course B dog himself - how the hell are you? Hope life is treating you all well. Ryan, last I heard you had found the woman of your dreams, hope that is still true. B - mom asked about you not long ago and sends you best wishes (no I am not making that up). Hope to hear you are still climbing and haven't let anyone tie you down (unless it's literal).
Wookie
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smith curry
climber
nashville,TN
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"Descent" quality rock......Too bad it's not "ascent" quality!
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Uh,,,,,,,,yea,,,,,,,the Black sucks, please don't go there everybody.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Anybody know any good Dobro player jokes?
;-)
Good to see ya man
But I'd rather hear ya
Peace
karl
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John Moosie
climber
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Hey Smith Curry,
I tink I knoes yous. Are you the dude who plays the Dobro?
If so, we met in Joshua tree about 7 or 8 years ago. It was around thanksgiving. We were camping in Hidden valley campground. We were a group from Yosemite. karl was there. Mark Albosta played the Djembe. Jeffe played guitar and banjo and Chris was also on guitar. I had a set of bongos and a Djembe. You showed up with a Dobro and we had a blast making music.
If this is you, then Howdy.... That was a great trip.
John
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Bryn Evans
Social climber
Ft. Collins
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sounds terrible, but Cali is crowded.
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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Mar 10, 2007 - 12:21pm PT
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Go the the Valley to work on your body, go the the Black to work on your mind. If you really want an experience, go to the Black in the winter when you have the whole North Rim to yourself.
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BrentA
Gym climber
Roca Rojo
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Mar 10, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
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Your never as alone as you think there...
This thread is 6 years old...6 years ago I was 25.
Fuqn A was I full throttle back then. So many good memories from the Black.
What up Wookster? Remember the Comic Relief? My/our first time down there.
Robbie and the A5 inbred soldiers....still laughing about that one.
Robbie Ryan and I made it down there last Spring. Sadly my last visit, but watching Robbie put in 12 pieces at hte first anchor was so worth it.
Cheers
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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Mar 10, 2007 - 02:02pm PT
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Still savoring my last trip down, a magnificent failure. Rappelling the west face of the Painted Wall with a single rope. Hour long dunking session trying to cross the Gunnison at dusk. The first flame of a twig as my hypothermic fingers caress our 2 malfunctioning lighters. Four hour hickory smoked session drying our clothes standing over a smoky fire. Hot potatoes in our E bags curled in the dirt under a boulder, feeding the fires all night long. Dave wearing my climbing shoe up the SOB.
Classic!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 10, 2007 - 04:25pm PT
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I think comic relief was my first adventure there, too.
But why judge one against the other? They compliment each other. If you like climbing walls in one, there is something for you in the other.
The black gets you into trouble more quickly and often presents more hazards along the way, but it's an easier place for a one objective jaunt. Since bailing is more of a codk up than in the valley, keeps you going.
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Fry Guy
Ice climber
Bondale, CO
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Nov 17, 2010 - 02:19am PT
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How the hell did I end up here again? It's like some time capsule that digs you up every few years. Not on purpose of course! Cause who the hell would wanna remember spooning some over active boy toy..... other than that Roberta. Roberta always liked handin it over. Still does in fact. I took the lead from him yet again the other day. But I digress, I laughed my ass off reading the beginning of this post again! That was funny sh#t fer sure.
Robertas got a kiddo now and is always too busy to answer his phone. When we going to the Black bitch? I call him on this sh#t every week....no answer. Sh#t, I've got two kids now but I still make time for my Bros and and my Black.
Last text conversation with the B-dog went somethin like this.
Me - "Dude...don't make me dog your face!" Guy never calls me ya know.
B - "Been pretty busy doggin my own:(" See, he's sad cuz he thinks he works hard. Actually he kind of does. "What's good on your end?"
me - "my new ice tools and the chippen I did over the weekend. And you?"
B - "Nothin that worthy. I think i popped the bubble on my work obsession." Well yeee f&^%n ha buddy!! LETS GO TO THE BLACK, ME TOO! Work what?
In comparison this typical text conversation isn't a rats ass as funny as the early days of Supertopo which sadly reminds me how dull you get as you grow. Reminder to self.
For all you youngins out there let this be a lesson. Get it while it's good and get all you can cause sooner or later you grow up and work harder. Harder at keeping in shape, sendin the rad, getting the time, jammin the cracks, crimpin the crimps, layin the pipes, schemin the schemes, takin the risks, walkin the walk..........WHAT! This is just BS media drivin jaberwalky, I'm not buyin it and should slap myself silly for think it!
Damn reading these Black stories gets me excited to get out there and climb again! Rekindle old partnerships. See who I can motivate, who I can make retaliate...Let's do this. Dive in and be born again! The Black calls again...too bad I'll have to wait till Spring:(
By the way Brent, I've been schemin another go at breakin the 24hr mark on the HW:) i know it's not as cool now that they do it in mere hours but it'd be an adventure pure. I'd prefer it be with you but I ain't hangin with no slackers. Gotta motivate at our age. I'll be sendin you your training schedule soon and this time your takin more than Circus Crackers and pop tarts.
Oh yeah, and I went to the valley again this year and climbed that thing they call the Captain again...It's alright. Can you believe i didn't even get scared and no holds broke! Couldn't believe it...it's like climbing on pavement or something. That sh#t is perfect....ly BORING:)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:31am PT
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Missed this thread. I think that the Black and Yosemite are too different for direct comparison. The Black is far more foreboding for inexperienced climbers but has tremendous adventure climbing for the initiated.
The hang at the Black is FAR superior to Yosemite, in fact I think that camping is the Valley's Achilles Heel. The overall Black scene is much more primitive and lacking in amenities AND tourists.
Both areas should be on any serious climbers agenda.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:34am PT
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How's that Yosemite Climber's Ranch coming along, Jim? Sigh....if only.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:37am PT
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Complicated.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:59am PT
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Yeah. I lived there for 2 and a half years and the crux was the same as ever: finding a bivy.
Anyhow. The Black: you go there, peek in (shudder), climb a route or two and feel like you got away with something. And it's OK to go climb something else for awhile. I never really got that feeling in the Valley- more like 'that was fun! how about that big thing over there...that's next!'
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 17, 2010 - 12:56pm PT
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Manicure the approaches in the Black and Supertopo the routes, then wait a few years for the chicken bolts and cheater slings to appear - then the Black wouldn't have anything going on that Yosemite didn't. Yosemite will always be more popular because of the food, scenery and other activities. There's good and bad rock, and easy and hard route finding in both places. Camping in the Black is great if you are one of the 10 to get a site, otherwise it really sucks.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:37pm PT
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In the probably 40 or so trips I've made to the Black, only ONE time did I ever miss out on a legitimate campsite at the North Rim (there's only 13). The number of times I got the last or 2nd to last site?...plenty.
Come to think of it, although I haven't been to the Valley since 1990, I don't think I ever wasn't able to get a site at Sunnyside.
So...I guess what I'm saying is ...TIE!.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
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A tie in availability not in quality. Camp 4 is not nearly as nice as camping on the north rim of the Black.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
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Never "camped" in either. Don't know how.
The wild places are vast. and free.
A comparison is useless, I think. Different worlds. Apples & Coconuts.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Nov 17, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
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I've only been to the Black once - drove from Arizona to meet a partner to do Scenic Cruise. Partner never showed. A ranger took pity on me and went climbing with me on some one pitch stuff near north whatchacallit - forgettable climbing, but it was cool that he spent the afternoon doing a couple of routes with me. A more down-home low-pop experience than one would likely encounter in the Valley.
What a spectacular place the Black is! Shakespeare says: comparisons are odious.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:02pm PT
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Comparing the climbing may be as Shakespeare said odious, but comparing the camping is more of a black/white situation. The Black is better, but then few areas are as bad as Camp 4.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:37pm PT
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Agreed.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Nov 17, 2010 - 10:39pm PT
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Imagination may be required. Easier than you think, man.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 17, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
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The Black is like Yosemite for grown ups.
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Fry Guy
Ice climber
Bondale, CO
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Nov 18, 2010 - 12:53am PT
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Yes Camp four is the bowels of the earth!
Brent, good link to the origionator of this thread. Good to see a prodigy for Jonny and Mike exists. Makes me think......hmmm could I do that;) What's Pennings been up to anyways? Haven't heard much climbing wise. He grow up too?
The Blacks only an hr away, I figure I get the kids to bed at 7:00, an hr early and I got the night to scheme.
My rope dope and I get psyched in the garage gym using our various medicinal performance enhancing drugs for reasons still unknown. Eventually crashing in a heap wherever we end up. Hopefully remember to set the alarm and wake at a respectable 3:00. Hop in the truck and make our way over the winding drive through the night. Take the shortcut. Avoid deer...or not. Park. Slap on the rope and rack. Run. Run. Run. Avoid falling at all costs. Hear the river. Begin to see the light. Greet the green monster and dance through it. Anticipate. Breath. This is what you've come for, the unknown. Find the approach. Wait it's farther down here.....but the routes up there? Approach the base and be glad to have survived it. Sit down. Sip the water....and other rituals. Strap on the shoes and ascend flowingly because you know you have too. Time is too short. You reach higher than usual. Feet find their way. The sun is up and your in love............
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 18, 2010 - 03:02am PT
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So I hear that the fishing isn't too shabby either...
anyone?
I have fished the Valley and the Meadows and some areas just outside the park. So-so. The Merced below the park and the Tuolumne canyon beyond the meadows are the best. I have never been to Gunnison.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Nov 18, 2010 - 07:40am PT
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I was just kidding about the tie. I love that campground at the Black's north rim. I'm assuming that nobody would claim to love camping at Camp 4.
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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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I wish I could distill, scrape, or just get a bigger lighter and smoke some more of whatever we were on in 2001.
I'm sort of glad this exists so that I can remember how amazing this time in my life was. Out of control...
For instance...a reference predating RJ's wife to someone named "Meghan". Wasn't she barely 18? Didn't we triple date at a period of time where NONE of us had a job?????
Still remember RW's 12 piece anchor as he trained for NIAD.
-----------------------------
Throughout all these years Ryan and Robbie remain great friends. So proud that Ryan is still a real climber.
That last sentence mispoken, I couldn't care less if any of us still climb.
I'm glad Ryan got an opportunity to truly uncork what he's about. I never saw any schmack talk about Mt. Johnson on the Taco, sad, cuz that was real deal.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I'm assuming that nobody would claim to love camping at Camp 4.
I can't compare climbing in the Black Canyon, since I haven't done it, but I loved the Camp 4 scene when I first started climbing in the late 1960's. Even though I didn't really participate until later, I felt like I belonged there, in contrast to how I felt in a lot of the rest of my life up to that point.
John
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