Discussion Topic |
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Brendan Gill
Trad climber
Guernsey
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 15, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
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hey all
I have not climbed a big wall yet and so far i have had no problem in building anchors.
BUT
i just want to see some examples of what other people have built so i can compare designs.
the idea is to see things like.
were and how the haul bags are clipped.
what point is the porta-ledge clipped too.
hauling point where that fits in.
i have googled lots. the best picture i have see is the one provided by climbing tech tips.
http://www.climbing.com/print/techtips/AID.224.gif
thanks
Brendan
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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There's the Sane Way, and the Canadian Assassin's "Better Way".
That pic is the Canadian Assassin's handy work, using about 20 biners for a single anchor. What could be Better than that?
Pretty much everyone I've done a wall with puts up a 3 bolt cordalette right on the anchor, and a 2 bolt hauling anchor with slings to one side, sharing hangers if the bolts allow (most trade routes have decent hangers that accept 2 bolts nicely. Stuff gets layered in using reasonable common sense after that, and it mostly works out. After a few clusters your first time out you get things dialed enough to do Better than 1 pitch a day...
Ideally you run with a tag line and tag up the haul line, anchor kit (cordalette, slings, pile of biners), hauler, spare rack, and go at it.
FYI, most pics you'll find of big wall anchors look like a giant cluster. Stacked ropes, docked pigs, bosun seats, spare rack, etc all make things look awful, but if things are handled a little sanely theings layer on, then back off just fine.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:29am PT
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Typical anchor cluster. With all your crap clipped in, it is hard to see that this anchor is just fine, and did not create cluster. Layer things so nothing is trapped, and you'll be fine.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:44am PT
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Keep a sense of humor?
On South Seas, at an anchor somewhere around the seventh pitch (the dolphin was our mascot - someone else had left the coconut taped to the wall):
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Dec 16, 2011 - 07:49am PT
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jfailing
Trad climber
Lone Pine
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Dec 16, 2011 - 10:41am PT
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 16, 2011 - 11:08am PT
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Simple, clean, efficient.
Totally fircken bomber, clean and efficient.
as bomber as you'll ever need but still clean and efficient.
I always haul of off one bolt. I never equalize that although I do safety it over to another bolt.
A hanging bivy anchor on the top of the PO.
Notice that it is still pretty clean and organized.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Dec 16, 2011 - 11:18am PT
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Hudon is my hero.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Dec 16, 2011 - 11:21am PT
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Contrary to all the drilled wall anchors illustrated above, don't forget that you can actually use natural anchors too...
course, then again, ya got to remeber that.
yur gonna die!
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thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
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Dec 16, 2011 - 11:53am PT
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Hudon is my hero.
Same here!
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Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 16, 2011 - 11:57am PT
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I was hopin' Hudon would post some of his pics. Yay!
...making lots of mental notes...gotta figure out that Sheep Knot thing...
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:01pm PT
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Thanks.
Figure out the Butterfly knot and how to make the loop larger or smaller and how to move the whole knot up and down the rope all without untying it and you'll have easy, fast and cluster free anchors always available to you.
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Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:04pm PT
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Thanks, Mark. I was gettin' my sheep & butterflies confused.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:04pm PT
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Piton Pete, where are you? Shot these wankers the real shite!
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:10pm PT
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I was wondering about that Dos XX ;-)
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:13pm PT
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I wish I had taken a photo of that totally climber built anchor on top of the second to last pitch of the South Seas-PO.
I had six cams all equalized with Butterfly knots down to two points, one for hauling and one for jugging. Even though it wasn't bolts, it was simple, clean, effective and totally bomber.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:40pm PT
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illustration then?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 16, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
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What do I look like, a frickken radio?
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Dec 16, 2011 - 01:40pm PT
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Abend
Social climber
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Dec 18, 2011 - 12:28am PT
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Dec 18, 2011 - 11:04am PT
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Not a great example, as I just arrived solo, the black rope is the haul line. Pig and ledge yet to arrive. Dock the pig off to one side, and ledge to the other just below the pig. I'll upload another pic or two if I can find em on this machine.
Dock the pigs to a bolt, backed up to the main anchor. The ledge can hang off anything, but stay tied into the master point yourself, at all times.
And although yer gonna die, don't skimp on the anchor and set the date.
Burly Bob
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Dec 18, 2011 - 11:32am PT
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Don't overlook a few bomber cams equalized is an awesome anchor, and even on a large ledge, it can be clustered in a big hurry. Sorry, none of the good stuff on this computer, maybe over x-mas.
Burly Bob
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 18, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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I think abends photo is the best!
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Dec 18, 2011 - 11:43am PT
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Maybe not as spectacular as abend's, but the potential is there...
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 18, 2011 - 12:55pm PT
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I've got to power points. One for hauling and one for cleaning.
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Dec 19, 2011 - 04:27pm PT
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bump for more anchor pics...
scott
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 19, 2011 - 04:31pm PT
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yosguns
climber
Paris, France
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Dec 19, 2011 - 06:25pm PT
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Edit: It made sense at the time.
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PellucidWombat
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 15, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
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Bump for hump day. Excellent thread!
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 15, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
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Keep it simple.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 15, 2012 - 04:22pm PT
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Are you starting to see a pattern here?
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PellucidWombat
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 17, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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Just curious, Hudon, but what is the thin blue cordalette being used for? I would assume it is the equalized hauling anchor, but it seems pretty low compared to the anchor?
Wonderful photo documentation, btw! Very helpful.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 17, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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Those are 5 mil slings I have tied onto the top loops of my Yates Gear Bra. I clip them to the anchors before I take the gear sling off so that I can never drop it.
Clipping them to individual bolts allows the gear sling to hang nice and flat against the wall, making it easy to grab gear from it or to load it up with more gear.
Here is a photo of that on the Shield
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 17, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:44pm PT
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Learn that butterfly knot. It's adjustable. I haven't used it yet but will do so next time. The other thing to learn from Mark Hudon is his pulley system. 2:1 or 3:1, whatever it is. For most people, hauling is the hardest part of a wall. It's so exhausting! Divide the weight by 2 and it would be easy.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Aug 18, 2012 - 01:45am PT
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Awesome thread, keep em coming!
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Aug 18, 2012 - 01:53am PT
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Aug 18, 2012 - 10:34am PT
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love your anchor system Mark Hudon
great pic Werner!
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 18, 2012 - 10:42am PT
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Part of my anchor system is my "Anchor Kit" of three large locking biners.
I use them more because they are large rather than locker. With large biners you can clip a lot of stuff to them and not pin anything else in. The ones I use have sort of a flat bottom so you can slide things towards the gate pretty easily, making it even easier to not pin anything.
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Aug 18, 2012 - 11:03am PT
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With large biners you can clip a lot of stuff to them and not pin anything else in. The ones I use have sort of a flat bottom so you can slide things towards the gate pretty easily, making it even easier to not pin anything.
Brilliant! ...just updated my gear list.
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micronut
Trad climber
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My first Big Wall anchor this past summer on The Column. Top of Pitch 2.
I really wanted to make Hudon proud with this one after much practice and disipleship.
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WBraun
climber
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Bolt anchors are not "Big wall anchors" just way homo n00b spray ;-)
You hafta put in a bunch mank all equalized together in sh!ty placements to make your claim ......
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Like this Werner?
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WBraun
climber
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Yes ....
Much better .......
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Well, regardless of what Werner says, big wall anchors, at least in Yosemite these days, on quite a few wall routes, are three or more 3/8 bolts.
Lost in America anchor.
The green rope on the left is where the second is coming up, the white rope is the haul line that I'm rapping on and jugging back up the next day.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
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Hudon inspired anchor. Make a butterfly with a big loop, equalize with a clove hitch or whatever other knot you want to use. Boom! Fast, easy, bomber, clean
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Briham, you got it!
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Jacemullen
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 19, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
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Sorry for bringing up a dead thread but Google lead me here.
Mark,
On the first picture you posted on the first page, I see that you docked your haulbags on the left and middle bolts. Were did you put your pullys/hauling system? I really like the simplicity of your anchors but where to setup a haul from is the one thing that has been killing me since I first read about it on your website.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
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Feb 19, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
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With big beefy new bolts, I just attach it to one of them and haul. It is of course backed up to the other one or two bolts. If the bolts aren't so bomber make an equalized anchor out of slings, cordlette,etc... and haul off that
Micronut's picture a few post up shows this
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Feb 19, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
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Jace, on that particular anchor I hauled from the middle bolt. I don't worry about modern 3/8" bolts failing under a hauling load but the fact that the left-most bolt sort of backed it up made me happy.
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Nilepoc
Big Wall climber
Tx
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Feb 19, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 19, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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Mark,
Beautifully simple anchors, but why a butterfly and not an overhand or figure-eight? Adjustability or security, or ... . I know there must be something I'm missing.
Thanks
Darwin
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Feb 19, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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The butterfly can easily be moved along the rope and you can make the loop bigger or smaller without untying the knot, a great feature for equalizing onto other parts of the anchor. Additionally, the knot can get pulled in three directions and not get distorted.
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Gene
climber
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Feb 19, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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the knot can get pulled in three directions and not get distorted.
I trust that not too much strength is lost with this knot?
I simply don't know.
Thanks,
g
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Feb 19, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
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Gene, it's strong in all those directions, that's another beauty of it.
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Vlada
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
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Oct 28, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
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A question to Mark Hudon: Assuming that the current leader will lead the next pitch, how does the follower tie into the anchor after he jugs up to it? Does the follower tie into the anchor using his end of the rope in the same way as the leader did? Thanks.
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whitemeat
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 28, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
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I am not mark hudon but, I like to tie in with daisy chains, 1 on the master point and 1 on a bolt out of the way, or on the first peice of gear for the lead, this makes the transition easier...
It really doesn't matter how you tie into an anchor though!!!
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Vlada
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:46am PT
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What whitemeat describes is what we do when the follower becomes the leader for the next pitch (switching leads at the anchor). It is simple, efficient, and safe.
However my question was related to the case when the leader leads in blocks (i.e. the previous leader leads the next pitch). How should the follower attach to the anchor so that the anchor would be safe even if the leader takes a Factor 2 fall on the anchor?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Oct 29, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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However my question was related to the case when the leader leads in blocks
Swap ends of the rope, triple checking your tethers/daisies/knots before and after the high-G maneuver?
...even if the leader takes a Factor 2 fall on the anchor?
Don't. Redirect the rope through a draw on a bolt, there will be enough extra rope between the belayer and that draw to greatly reduce the fall factor, and the belayer will go for a small ride to further reduce the impact. Am I missing something?
Hudon's setup does not create a nice obvious "Power Point" like a cordelette, but instead uses squishy rope on (hopefully) bomber bolts to be good enough. The follower gets 2 semi-equalized bolts to jug on, but the belayer is hanging off of one clove, backed up to the other bolts. With good bolts this is just fine with me.
I am however not a fan of hauling off of 1-bolt, it weirds me out, especially with a static haul line. Nothing about his main haul anchor precludes hauling off of a sliding-X or knotted sling to put some redundancy into the haul anchor. He ties all the bolts together so you wonld not lose the pig entirely, but there could be quite the mess if the haul bolt popped and the whole rig dropped a couple feet.
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Vlada
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
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Oct 29, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
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Thanks Moof. Swapping the ends of the rope is probably the most efficient way to get the follower anchored and the leader starting the next pitch.
As you describe, we always try to prevent Factor 2 fall by clipping a draw to one of the anchor bolts, and if possible, placing the first pro as bomber as possible somewhere near above the anchor.
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