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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:02am PT
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wow! i'm impressed that you can spell and punctuate so well, so soon afterward. maybe next time leave out the part about his mom. you are right about the goons feeding them ... send 'em a bill (edit: even if only for the ammo)
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:35am PT
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That's a scary wakeup.
Beautiful bear, gone bad due to the feeders.
Sorry you got your house broken into as a result,
plus the stress of having to take it down as it charged you.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite, ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:40am PT
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Crazy! I work with bears here in Yosemite and we had one bear a few weeks ago go from wawona in the park to mammoth where it started breaking into houses there. It is really sad to see a bear killed, and you are right, it is definitely because people leave trash and food out in front of their houses. Bears are attracted to the trash, recycling, and food. The Wawona bear was originally attracted to bird feed.
Amazing photo though. You should frame that sucker!!
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Chugach
Trad climber
Vermont
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:59am PT
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Wow, nice shooting Tex.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:46am PT
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Forget framing the picture... use it to make posters that say "this is how the story REALLY ends when you feed bears" and put them up around town.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:03am PT
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The story DOES make a good PSA on the "fed Bear/Dead Bear" thing. I posted it to my ClimbAddict FBook page as a PSA.
Sorry for the bear's death. Glad nobody else was injured.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:27am PT
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Scary! Had one on our back porch last year. That was FAR too close for comfort. I never want to see one trying to come in. Bleck.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:32am PT
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Hey Cragman, glad you got through the ordeal safely. Sad for the bear, but people feeding wildlife have no clue... idiots, or eejits here in Ireland.
When I was 17 I woke up in Lower Pines campground (in the Valley) next to my high school climbing buddy, and there was this big bear, inches away from me, but just interested in the picnic table (there was no food). That sucker was BIG. I don't like guns but if something like that charged, I'd blast away.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:38am PT
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Breaks my heart to have to kill this thing, but I blame the stinking NUT JOBS that feed these bears!
WOW, it might be some local feeder: but could I also suggest that you folks do some door to door community outreach to make sure that everyone in the vicinity is tossing the trash properly. To a bear, a normal trash can looks a lot like a dinner plate to you and I. Crazy as that sounds not everyone is tuned into this idea. Then you have the folks who start their own little landfills....
Take care!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:05am PT
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The bear should've just chuckled, high fived you, said "bitchin' pants man" and waddled away.
Glad yer ok.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:06am PT
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That is going to make a sweet rug!
Also a nice necklace out of the claws. (PM me for instructions.)
If you have a good butcher I recommend salami for the rest of the carcass.
Edit: Dedicated Supertopoian. First thing after shooting bear is post on the forum!
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:20am PT
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Wow that is a scary story. Sad for you to have to resort to extreme measures to protect yourself, and sad for the animal.
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bentelbow
climber
spud state
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:36am PT
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Sad you had to kill the thing. Just wondering what size gun you used? I've worked as a fishing guide in Alaska and anything under a 44 magnum was a joke.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:03am PT
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Sorry for your home and the late night awakeing, but you obviously did the right thing. If people had not killed off most of the large predators over the last 100 years I doubt people would be living any many of these beautiful places all over the country as this would happen much more often. I am not a hunter or even own a gun, but feel that it is our history and it will come down to us or them. Either people will protect the places they live or they will have to move out.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:12am PT
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It was outside the house but "charged" you?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:13am PT
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And I thought I had problems with deer eating our flowers!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:14am PT
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t will come down to us or them
I think we can share and implement some wisdom (not to mention incorporate bear unfriendly structure designs.)
Glad you are OK Cragman. Reminds me of the Groucho Marx line; "This morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know."
Those ARE your pajamas aren't they?
Can't believe that where you live you haven't mounted a SureFire light on your primary night defense tool.
You know they make one with an integrated laser now, don't you?
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:22am PT
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Nice Marx quote, Ron.
Cragman, glad you and your family are safe - good shooting. It is sad the bear was in that situation. Hope you do get a nice rug and good meat from it.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:32am PT
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bummer cragman,
its the people that are the problem. sending good luck your way.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:41am PT
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Poor bear.
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Brian Biega
climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:46am PT
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Breaking and entering.
You or the Bear.
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bentelbow
climber
spud state
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:56am PT
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From your story I believe the shooting was unfortunate but necessary. Paper targets are one thing, but a charging bear is another. I've seen more than one person choke under that situation. I always go with the idea that you don't stop shooting until the bear stops moving or you are out of bullets.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:58am PT
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Take it easy Cragman, you don't have to explain about why you shot.
We COULD use an explanation about your fashion statement, but that's not as urgent. lol
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:04pm PT
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Good shooting, Dean!
But, bears have been in conflict with men for all recorded history.
The problem with kindhearted but ecologically ignorant city dwellers:
FED BEAR = DEAD BEAR.
Rodger
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PeteC
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:09pm PT
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Hey Cragman - glad you're OK.
I had one punch put my kitchen screen a few weeks ago and try to climb in -- on this occasion the bear ran right away when yelled at. I've thought about what I would have done if it hadn't. I love bears, and treasure them as co-existing creatures here in the Eastern Sierra. But a bear in the house with my 3 year old is going to get shot. Regrettable, but you did the right thing. Bear recipes?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
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Just making sure that they actually WERE pajamas.
I was going to propose we do a taco benefit party to pay for four new screens, five new rounds of forty cal (hollow points?), four therapy sessions to deal with the PTSD, one $595 SureFire X400 pistol light/laser, and a pair of grownup pants (and we likely need to throw in some new underwear as well. Would that be boxers or briefs?)
;)
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
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Sorry I accidently deleted my question: how did you get one into the bear's ass.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
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wow cragman - good shooting! maybe you can satisfy your wife by skinning and eating that bear and even a bearskin coat could be in order. you need to drill down on this quick while the meat is fresh
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
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Stupid bear.
Get a job and quit trying to steal others food. Heh heh just kiddin .....
Every now and then one breaks into the houses here and wrecks the place.
A bear one winter was tearing the shingles off the building that houses the walkin refrigerator to get thru the walls.
One got into Lincolns house when he lived here and ate all the ice cream and whatever else and then went to sleep on the bed.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
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We could cook the bear for the party.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:24pm PT
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Dean-
Glad you were using an effective cartridge like a .40 cal!! I'm assuming a .40 S & W?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:27pm PT
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Ok, I'll say it. That sh#t is pretty weak Dean. You killed a bear that was outside your house without trying to chase it off? Weak. The excuse that it would maim or kill some unsuspecting neighbor in the future is also invalid. I'm sure that June Lake/Mammoth has a bear league just like there is up in Tahoe. I obviously wasn't there, so maybe the bear did something that you've left out, like grabbed his balls and flipped you off. I'm truly surprised to hear that you took this course of action.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:28pm PT
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Uh-oh....you just did it, Brandon. This thread is gonna get good, now.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
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Cragman - no doubt you can, but seriously consider this as a culinary opportunity. A brief search yields the following. It seems to me a long braise like 10 hours at 200 degrees is the right call here....
Wild Game Recipes| Bear Recipes
Braised Bear Steak
Simply Elegant Bear Steak and Rice
County Style Bear
Bear Meat Balls
Bear Roast
Bear meat can be excellent when properly prepared, and when cooked, it is very much like pork. A young animal does not need to have its meat marinated, although this helps to tenderize the meat and to remove the gamey taste. Older meat should always be marinated. Be sure to remove the fat before preparation. Also cut out all sinews and other undesirable parts.
The flavor of bear can vary greatly, depending on the animal's diet and the amount of fat left with the meat. A bear that has eaten carrion will have objectionable flavors, while one that has fed on berries will taste completely different. Bear fat has a very strong flavor and will make the meat objectionable if not completely removed.
Care should be taken with bear meat to prevent the danger of trichinosis. Either be sure the meat is well cooked to an internal temperature of 170 degrees F. or that the meat has been stored at 10 degrees F. below 0 for at least 30 days.
Tenderness depends on the age of the bear. Young animals may be roasted; but don't overcook them. Older meat should be cooked with moist heat as in casseroles or stews. Marinating the meat may also help. Try using bear meat in your favorite recipe.
Thanks for visiting our Bear Recipes Webpage
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
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HFCS,
when it comes to mounting I only tan when I stuff outside.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
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Brandon-
In almost all cases on S-T, I do not refer to people as idiots. However, in this case I'll make an exception!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
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Cragman, if enough people question your judgement on this, are you going to leave ST again in an indignant huff?
Not questioning whether you made the right call or not (and not suggesting that you should leave again)...just wondering.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
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Dean " Dirty Harry " Rosneau.....I was planning on poaching a xmas tree from your front yard this December , but have changed my mind...Might be pedaling by your house today on an orange Aerohead...Will be wearing a hunting vest...Go ahead , make my day....RJ
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
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maybe this is better than a slow braise - bear jerky. this has to be good to break out on the crags.
The Best Bear Jerky you ever ate:
(Because of low temperature cooking, bear meat like pork, must be certified. To do this, put your meat in the freezer for 30 days prior to using.)
For 5 Lbs. Of Meat:
1 cup - Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce
1 cup - Kikoman Soy Sauce
2 tbsp. - Liquid Smoke (Wright’s is best if available)
1 tbsp. - Salt
1 tbsp. – Pepper
Any spices you like, add to it. Soak overnight.
Sprinkle Pepper or Cayenne Pepper on when you are ready to dry it or smoke it on low heat until dry.
You may add salt to taste.
Bear meat also makes a delicious sausage. Use any Bratwurst recipe.
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Sam R
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:37pm PT
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It makes me sick to hear about people feeding bears- especially locals, they should know better! I can't believe how many of my neighbors have bird feeders full of seeds hanging well within the reach of a bear. "Bird seed is like crack to a bear"- Steve Searles (The Bear Whisperer).
A FED BEAR IS A DEAD BEAR!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
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Actually Dean, I've had some experience with bear break ins, and it never came down to killing the bear. I've fired a gun in the air, but never resorted to killing the animal.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
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HFCS,
Now you are talking about the wrong kind of mounting again.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
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the actual skin of a bear is quite thin
Some bears can shed insults better than others.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
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Hmmm.
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:48pm PT
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About a week and a half ago, my neighbor woke up to a bear working on a jar of Nutella in her living room. That bear split out the same window it came in, as soon as she walked into the room, but I suppose it's just a matter of time 'til he's trying to come through my window (and get MY Nutella).
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:49pm PT
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You probably did the right thing, but it's nothing to be proud of.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
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If Ouch was still here we would have a police lineup with 46 and Werner.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 12:53pm PT
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Surely you must realize the level of drama and clucking that a thread like this is going to create on ST. What's the point?
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:00pm PT
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Cragman sorry you had to go though that.
I can't do what you did cause my woman would kill me.
She has never had kids.
Once I had a child things for me changed. Anything in the house when the kid was home & I was going to kill it.
Now that the kids grown up & I have a new woman -- If I killed the bear she would kill me, but if the bear killed me there would be fresh flowers on my grave. & if I was only mauled she would take good care of me.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
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Bears don't make good rugs.
Besides, some women like bald men.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:02pm PT
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Ease up apogee.
We had a thread awhile back about a guy in Mammoth who helps the town control the bears. He makes a big effort to use non lethal means to reeducate the bears, but even still, occasionally he has to put one down. This guys name is Steve Searles. There is a documentary on what he does, but I haven't found it. It is a great story, because it shows how difficult it is to reeducate a bear, but that sometimes it does work.
It was a hard winter for the bears.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
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Dean:
I will shortly be moving my burglary operation to June Lake. By any chance could you give me your street addy?
John
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
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What is misunderstood by many of the more "bleeding heart" types here is the persistence of bears once they begin a behavior set. They can be "scared off" only once, but they'll BE BACK REPEATEDLY!
Food is always the issue; they are after anything edible. Feeding the bears may seem "cute" to some here, but the death warrant is issued onece this begins.
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:14pm PT
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Cragman, I don't think I'm following how this went down, I must be missing something? This bear was doomed no matter what so it's all just plain unfortunate and so no judgements from me at all (other than that's impressive shooting and that you're OK), but I'm still curious how this went if you have a minute.
You come into your living room, and there's a bear trying to get through the window. You're inside, bear is on deck outside. Did the bear come into the house somehow? You say the bear charged you, so the bear must have been in the house somehow, right? Or was the bear always on the deck and you in the house? If so how did it charge you?
I just can't follow how this went down looking at the pictures and your report.
And there must be someone who hunts in your area, be great to get him/her to butcher that bear right away, be a shame to waste the meat and skin. I'd do it if I were local, unfortunately not. Bear-proof garbage bins should be mandatory in any area with bears. Idiots feeding bears are just that.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
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Hey Brokenclimber, read Moosies post upthread. Bears can be reeducated, it's a proven thing. I ain't no bleeding heart, just a realist with experience in the matter. Sometimes bears are capped preemptively. Live and let live, I say. One of my bear run ins, I had a bruin walk halfway through my open screen door in truckee. If i let him, he would've eaten all the food in my kitchen. Luckily, I yelled at it and threw something at.it. It ran away. If people kept their goddamn trash secure we wouldnt be discussing this.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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Ho Man! What a wake-up call.
I'm glad you and your family are OK.
Beautiful place you have there, by the way.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:25pm PT
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Cragman....Rule # 1... Bears feel threatened when they see plaid...Never wear plaid...!...Rule #2...If the bear charges , you should curl up and play dead...RJ
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:27pm PT
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You guys shouldn't get on Cragman's case. Look how he's helped Flanders. He is a charitable guy. He treats every day like it is Christmas. Look at the photo. He still has the lights up!
But he's still being cagey about needing new underwear.
It's nothing to be embarrassed about. I mean, after all, if you are getting up three times a night to pee even without having to shoot a bear each time,...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:30pm PT
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Ron..We all have our insecurities...This is no place to criticize a man who is lingerie challenged....RJ
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
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All this, and no one has fingered Goldilocks?
Anyway, good work Dean - I'd probably have done the same, if in your shoes. Well, OK, I would have hired you, Werner and Ron to take care of it for me, if the pot banging routine didn't pan out, and pepper spray didn't do it.
The underlying issues are that the population of black bears in the Sierra has at least doubled over the last 25 - 30 years, and that there is increasing human presence in suburban and frontcountry areas that also happen to be bear habitat. Major management challenge, due to demography and geography.
Edit: Didn't plaid go out of style with the Bay City Rollers?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:41pm PT
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I agree (I like the support), but you're still being cagey.
Personally, I might of had a little oopsie if I had to face down a bear with nothing but a little forty cal.
(lol, OK here we go,..)
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:50pm PT
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Regardless if the bear was inside or not it charged and who wouldn't shoot it besides Brandon. June has a big problem with bears and people and it's common for this kind of encounter. Much like the valley bears they are used to humans. I remember eating @ the silver lake resort and watching a bear just laying outside the window as tourons got close and photographed it. The bear didn't even flinch.
I agree good shooting Tex. Still plenty of bears out there, and I know never charge at cragman cause he'll shoot my ass.
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:51pm PT
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Cragman, thanks for the answers, cool to figure out what happened, makes sense now.
The autopsy on the bear makes sense, stomach is full probably of burgers and take-out from garbage cans and other human stuff he could scrounge, sad.
One thing that interests me of late is how having a gun in hand effects decision making. Would you have gone outside so quickly without a gun in hand? I hunt and know the difference a rifle in hand can make in my mindset when out in the wood. I had to spend two days out alone in really thick bush recently, I do wish I'd had my rifle but didn't. All the time in the woods by myself with a rifle had changed my thinking, I never would have cared much before in the previous 30 years of bush travel, often solo.
So in this situation would your reaction have been different had you not had a gun in your hand? Did you end up in a much riskier situation because you were armed? I never used to understand why so many hunters ended up getting attacked by grizzly bears (beyond the obvious dead animal problem), I'm starting to think it has more to with people getting bolder and making less careful decisions when armed (using myself as a reference, what I've done).
Anyhow, thanks for the answers, and lots of respect for the good shooting under stress--hard to do that, you must put some solid training into your shooting. Off to the range now to do mine.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
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You think the bear did damage to your home?
Wait till you see it after BearFest!
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
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This Just In, Cragman didn't shoot at the first opportunity he had (not safe to do so etc). He didn't shoot until he was directly threatened. I expect most people would do the same--only shoot when they had to vs. a bear being a pain in the ass.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
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Gilwad, he shot when it charged him I didn't need clarification cause that's what I would of done too.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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Confronting a wild animal that has no sense of fear of man, and directly breaks into homes repeatedly, without a weapon..........not a good idea.
Unless you have the ability to reason with it like Brandon.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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"Go climbing."
Nah, gotta do a little work today. Besides, this attention-seeking thread is sure to be more entertaining. That's the goal, right?
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:01pm PT
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SAD
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
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I think Cragman has done something here that you are likely to see happening more and more as the years progress.
Writing a TR without even leaving home!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
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Ha , Ho...I'm going to get my bear suit out of the dry cleaners...RJ
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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so what happens after the adrenaline subsides and your gun cools off -- reload?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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No Dean...It's not because you are Christian...It's the Plaid dude...!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:12pm PT
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Cragman...Any pics of you in that leather Kilt..?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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Cosmic..Last time i tried to peek thru your windows..I couldn't see sh#t...! You know any good window washers..? RJ
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
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Truth^^^^
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
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He didn't hunt the bear, he reacted and was proud of his reaction. Doesn't mean he didn't feel bad shooting it.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:23pm PT
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"Those who resent me do so because I am a Christian"
A bear is dead and now its about religion?
Dean, it is obvious that you did what you had to do.
Posting pictures of you posing over the little bear with your big gun is just disgusting.(hey kids -take my picture)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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Bunch of hand wringing monday morning quarterbacks.
When your local rag does a story clip it and send it to American Rifleman for their Armed Citizens column. Make sure it mentions the kids.
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Brian
climber
California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
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Yikes! Glad you and the family are alright. You've really had bear trouble this season in between job sites, the marina, and now your home. Glad you were prepared and are such a good shot. I agree that it's sad to have to put the bear down, but you did what you had to do in the situation. Did you ever figure out why Cush wasn't barking?
Brian
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
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Cosmic...I know where there are some dirty windows on the June Lake Loop with smear marks..
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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Brandon-
Having a bear coming through the dining room window is NOT the time to be thinking about a bear re-education program. Dean did what any reasonable person who cares about his family first would have done.
I've had plenty of animal encounters and as long as they aren't aggressive towards me or mine--it's strictly a live and let-live situation. I've had a bear eat a dead cow on the property but it was allowed to do my cleanup for me... It then left never to be seen again.
I used to hunt many years ago but haven't done so in 15 years. I only shoot predators and intruders.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:45pm PT
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This brings to mind the advice never to shoot for a bear's head. Try to take out a shoulder. Seems counterintuitive but that is what happened here. With four rounds to the head it was still mobile.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
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You have to match the appropriate round to the target. For a bear you might want something a little heavier than you would use on an intruder or a retrobolter.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
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Shooting directly AT a perceived threat is instinctive and commonplace.
I explains why so many people in gun fights get shot in their gun hand.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
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Yes but they can over penetrate the retrobolter and damage the route.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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Don't you find there is much less clean-up afterward with rocket propelled grenades?
Looking at the grizzly, prompts a question. With one of those guys you are advised to give it your forearm to chew on while you work with a knife on the carotid. So I have to ask. Don't you have to push your forearm past the animal's cuspids? At least get onto the bicuspids not built for tearing.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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hey there say, cragman...
like i said on the facebook page, would have been very strange event, if you all had been up late playing scrabble or something, and this bear came crashing in... *though it sounds like now, after hearing more of the story, that you had lots of "crashing" going on, before hand...
glad to see that no folks were outside on the porch, watching the stars or moon, during all this, :O
bear trouble is no fun, for sure...
god bless to you, and any that are facing this stuff, in your area, or,
in crimpergirl's area....
i remember her bear-on-the-porch adventure, too, :O
whewwwwwwwww....
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
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Great thread. Fastest growing in a long while.
Who has that cocaine bear shot? Would be appropriate right now.
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
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What would have happened if Crag did not have his gun and he turned on his lights and screamed at the bear? I have a pertty good idea.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
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You didn't have to kill it. It's not like it's a grizzly or something.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
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hey there say, spider.... wow, as to fast growing, i was surprised :O
i had just seen a mention of this on the facebook, and wondered if there was a post here, with MORE details, as some of it i did not fully understand...
and it was past 100 post already, :O
oh my... the bear growth-facts... (ooops, bare growth-facts... or, well, you know) ;)
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:40pm PT
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^^^ thats good shit^^^
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
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It's easy to be judgmental from a safe distance... And after-the-fact.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:53pm PT
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Is there any truth to the rumour that it was in fact LEB who pulled the trigger, and that she was standing on a grassy knoll in Area 51 when she did it?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
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Thank you Dwain. You are not only a gentleman BUT a scholar. Also a renaissance man of the highest order.
Can't wait for next winter's SNOW.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 03:58pm PT
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Ironic that a thread like this & an LEB resurgence appear at about the same time, donchathink?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 04:05pm PT
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You're not suggesting that LEB = Cragman = apogee, are you?
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
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No, no...Cragman is definitely not LEB. He is as distinctly different as 4 shots to the head.
Still, similarities remain....
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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Aug 21, 2011 - 04:09pm PT
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I hope we're all in agreement that shooting a bear when it's charging at you is entirely appropriate. To put four shots into the head while it's coming toward you is good shooting, and I'm glad Cragman is a good shot. I'll let the experts I've worked with decide if it's a "bluff" charge or not; me, I'm shooting too if I have a firearm at hand.
I could care less that Cragman's a Christian or believes in flying saucers or whatever, it's his thing, carry on. His answers to my questions have been sincere. To those who are attacking his actions step back a little, he did what he did and the "why" is interesting and maybe useful to all of us.
The thought I have is that when we're armed we have to continue to think and react appropriately to situations, and not expect to resolve them with our firearm... Cragman says there is no way he would have gone out there to make sure the bear was gone if he wasn't armed. He made a decision to do so because he was armed. Was that a good decision? If he were not as good of a shot, if the bear were a bit closer, like bumping into him close, or any number of other factors then the outcome might not have been really bad. Having a firearm in hand effected his decision making; did the resulting decision unnecessarily jeopardize his own safety? It looks to me like it did. I'm genuinely interested in this subject as I'm walking around in the woods with a rifle a lot, and have noticed this effecting my own decision making in not the best ways...
It's done, the bear was dead already due to the behaviour of the humans, so the death was inevitable unless the humans in the area changed. My thought is that maybe that death could have come with a rifle or shotgun slug at more than a few meters distance, and put Cragman at far less risk. Something to think about, and I'm glad Cragman posted here. No sympathy to anyone who wants to just hate on the guy for killing a bear, hate on the people who turned that bear into what it was. And I don't follow this site closely enough to have a history with Cragman, he's been decent in his responses to me so gets my respect.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 04:26pm PT
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I agree that the bear was doomed, whether it was Dean who shot it, or a police officer. Without someone around like the guy in Mammoth, bears aren't going to change their bad habits. Instead those bad habits get worse and worse. I hope someone finds that documentary on the bear guy in Mammoth. That is worth watching. He has most of the bears trained, but he did have to put one bear down. Some are just too aggressive.
I have been wondering the same thing as Gilwad. Dean has already admitted that he wouldn't have gone outside if he wasn't armed. Thats interesting to me, because I did go outside recently, unarmed, when a bear was trying to break into my house. We had a bear recently break into houses here in Wawona. After being harassed for a few weeks, it left Wawona and went back where it came from, which was Mammoth. That bear tried to break into my house one night. I woke up and heard it and immediately believed it was the bear. I yelled, and the noise stopped. Then I went outside to investigate. I was careful and only poked my head around the corner to look. The bear was about 10 feet away and I yelled at it. It started walking away and I yelled again and then pegged it on the rump with a rock, to discourage it from coming back. If it had charged, I would have run back into my house. My door was only 5 feet away up 4 steps, plus the bear would have had to turn a corner, so I believed that I was safe enough.
I have had multiple encounters with bears here in the park. Two bluff charges and multiple other encounters.
One time a bear walked over me trying to get to my pack while I was sleeping. I woke up and realized it was standing right over me. Another time I bumped into a bear while walking home. Both of us were startled. I was walking home one night, creeping along trying to stay on the road, because it was pitch black and there was no moon and I didn't have a flashlight. I bumped into something that was about waste high and was furry. We both startled and it ran off. When it got out from under the trees and into the starlight, I could see that it was a bear.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
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Are you sure it was a bear? Out of bounds campers are hairy and smell too.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
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IT WOULD HAVE BUSTED INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S PLACE,
Yep, and eventually someone would have to shoot it. Either a cop, or a citizen. Bears don't unlearn bad habits unless there is someone diligent, like the guy in Mammoth. Plus they usually have to be caught fairly early in the process, before a really bad habit forms. At least that is my understanding.
Are you sure it was a bear? Out of bounds campers are hairy and smell too.
hahaha.. well, I did wake up hearing this scratching sound. I looked up and couldn't see the stars and finally woke up enough to realize something was standing right on top of me. Eventually it finished sniffing through my pack and it walked off. I had left the zippers open for just that reason. Once it was about 20 feet away I spotlighted it with a flashlight. So yep, I know it was a bear. My partner never woke up and didn't believe me until I showed him the tracks.
Well know bear territory, the grand canyon of the Tuolumne.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:38pm PT
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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I can not blame Crag for his actions. We live in Bear country and the people who feed these animals and continue to let their trash be accesible to bears should be liable. I do think that throphy photos on the internet are bad style and does not express the respect the animal ruined by people deserves. Crag was right in protecting his family, a wild animal can not be predicted especially one poisoned by Human contact. Very sad indeed. Paul Linaweaver
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:52pm PT
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Come on Apogee. Stop this business. Dean isn't perfect, but I don't know anyone who is. I know I'm not. Are you?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:58pm PT
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If he intended it as a trophy photo he would have given it the classic head-hold looking into the camera after first ditching the plaid pajamas for khakis and wellingtons.
Sheesh!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:58pm PT
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Had bears in my house more than once. Good stories but not time to write them now
All bears are large with they are in your house!
peace
karl
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
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Crag, you posted a TR about killing a bear at 3 am in the morning with a photo of you flashing your .40 over the dead bears body and you think people that dont agree with your decision are Pinheads?
Please! I have no axe here but what did you expect? Bears break into homes all the time and they rarely get " 4 in the head and one in the ass". There are officals whose job is to deal with these issues. You mentioned that you were carrying the weapon in the photo because these animals tend to run in groups..... really?.wow, I laughed. I am a 30 year gun owner and hunter so save the pinhead uninformed city folk line.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:02pm PT
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You guys should understand that apogee feels a great deal of empathy for the unfortunate bruin. You would too if you were busted for a roach and, while you were inside, were forced to take four in the head and one in the ass.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:10pm PT
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Feeding trolls is about the same as feeding wild bears.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
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Sounds as though the California Department of Wildlife, or Fish and Game needs to address the population problem by live trapping some of these problem carnivores and shipping their a$$es off to parts far, far away! Either that or allow legal hunting in order to get the populations under control.
I can imagine my own reaction to having my windows broken in and the house trashed and $hit upon during the night. It would not be pretty!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:16pm PT
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Worth re-posting, from upthread:
"If it broke your heart to kill that thing you would'nt be posing for photos with the bear and your gun. and then posting them here."
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
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Sounds as though the California Department of Wildlife, or Fish and Game needs to address the population problem by live trapping some of these problem carnivores and shipping their a$$es off to parts far, far away! Either that or allow legal hunting in order to get the populations under control.
Perhaps someone can comment on the broader issues. IIRC, there has been a steady decline in hunting in the US (and Canada) over the last decades, even allowing that about 50% of all animals that are shot are poached.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:50pm PT
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Not in Idaho,...
(a thread about shooting an animal in Kalifornia with 200 posts and no Rox? WTF?)
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:52pm PT
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Yeah, I think that attitude somehow points the way to an even bigger government.
High Fruc..your preaching to the choir here. Don't mistake me for a PETA nut or pro big Gov! I took issue with the Glen Beck "Pinhead" reference to anyone that does not like Crag's post. Post killing a bear on a climbing forum and you should expect some responses that may not be plaased with said post.
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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oops, Pinhead my be an O'Rielly thing
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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More truth^^^
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:12pm PT
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Cragman posted up re: a depradation permit. This may be the direct answer to problem bears. The offending animals alone need be removed. I'm not simply advocating a widespread slaughter of non-offenders. Repeat offenders need to be removed. Somehow. Scaring them off (over to Apogee's house) doesn't seem to work.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:14pm PT
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It's easy to talk sh#t when it's someone else's family and someone else's home being threatened.
Much easier, apparently, than actually going outside and doing something on a beautiful summer day.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:26pm PT
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serious Abu Ghraib deja vu
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:26pm PT
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how are your dog(s)?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:27pm PT
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Just ignore apogee ya'll...he's not worth our breath.
I disagree with you Dean. I think he is worthwhile, even if I disagree with him sometimes, just as I think that you are worthwhile, even if I disagree with you occasionally.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:36pm PT
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Part of the problem is that people buy nice homes in the mountains and then howl that the bears are getting into where they live without realizing that the feeling is mutual!
Too many of these people then feel like THEIR rights are more important. The tragedy is that they are technically correct but morally wrong.
If realtors were forced to appraise people of the hazard there might be less of the indignant whiners living there, and those that chose to live within bear habitat would likely be more of the existential bent such as Cragman who is willing to stand the ground between a big problem animal and his family with a mere handgun chambered to a cartridge that barely has hair on its balls!!
Now if it had been a .45acp there wouldn't be a hole in the ass of its hide.
Forget it Cragman. Its Chinatown.
(you DO know that 4in the head and one in the ass will become a running joke on the taco known as the Cragman Treatment?)
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:37pm PT
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:40pm PT
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LOL, during the recent "siege of the bear" we had here in Wawona, I got nearly daily updates on the bear problem. haha..
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:42pm PT
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I can't imagine chasing the bear out of the house given your pix... & even if there was a way to do so, the next time it would have gotten into someone's house could have ended in a much greater tragedy. After all, this one had priors based on your posts.
edit: if the tables were turned (person B & E into bear w/ cub turf) mama bear would have attempted to kill too.
edit: having to skim made me miss the fact it was never in the house... but what a close call
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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Last two days in a row at the Maroon Bells, CO, a black bear has ripped through the tent of a camper and started chewing on his leg. Yikes.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:58pm PT
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Thats a death sentence. Hope they get the right one.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
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As long as they are not too hot, but not too cold either.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:23pm PT
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"Post killing a bear on a climbing forum and you should expect some responses that may not be plaased with said post."
Yep.
Cragman, I'll take you at your word that that bear was a real risk to your home & family, and possibly others in your area. If the situation was as you described, it sounds like a reasonable action. What's hard to understand is why you would post a thread like this, with a pic of you crouching over the animal with gun in hand, conquering-hunter-style, while at the same time saying how regretful and sorrowful you are to have had to do such a thing. It just doesn't sit right.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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I would like to respectfully disagree with the posters who are saying, in essence, "if you were sad to have to kill the bear, you wouldn't be posting the photo".
People share things all the time on this forum through photos. And they are not all photos of climbs and flowers and babies. We've had photos of car wrecks, cut off thumbs, Cat scans (RIP Paul), blown up mobile homes and innumerable butt plugs, to mention some. When something dramatic happens to one of us, we make that event come alive for others through our photos.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:29pm PT
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that's a lot of meat..keep you through the winter and get you fat to boot. don't waste the precious resource...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 21, 2011 - 09:41pm PT
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Glad you weren’t hurt Cragman.
Walking through the forest, here, I’ve come onto skinned out bear carcasses left by hunters. Very grisly sight but the musculature of bears is quite awesome. I’ve heard they can crush a human skull with one swing (?).
The bears here seem more shy and sneaky. They are rarely seen …probably because the residents in the area aren’t feeding them. We get cougars sunning themselves on the cabin deck but no bear break-ins….YET !
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
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Well, looking at it another way, it may be a while before Cragman - or is that Plaidman? - lives down those trousers. In all the confusion and adrenalin, he must have forgotten to change into camouflage clothing.
Which is to say that the photo wasn't entirely flattering - although I'm sure I'd do no better, and perhaps worse, in such circumstances.
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
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So living in Curry Vill employee housing in the 90's i would encounter a bear , say, twice a week. "Shoo bear" and a tossed rock would work about 9 times out of 10. Can you Imagine, if visitors were allowed into the park with firearms, the blood bath that would take place on the basis of "defending" ones family. A bear would not be living in Yosimite.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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Five .40 cal S&W in the head? Why is there no blood in the pics? The bear is head downhill in the driveway; I would expect some pretty massive bleed out.
OR- weapons are allowed in national parks these daze.
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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Hey Crag, I am not trying to start a sh#t storm. You come across as a solid person. I just have issue with these type of wildlife endings. You story was just a good start on this topic. Phil
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:54pm PT
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OR- weapons are allowed in national parks these daze.
Wow really? So I'm out of the loop on that one. Really? while camping in the Valley?
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
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Crag, if locals you know are willingly feeding bears, please report them to the authorties, that bullshit has got to stop.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:56pm PT
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Acccording to my friend who worked on bear relocations, all relocated bears are tagged in their ears so problem bears can be identified. We noticed a huge spike in the population off Hwy. 20 above the town of Washington and had heard they were dropping Tahoe bears there.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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Crag, if locals you know are willingly feeding bears, please report them to the authorties, that has got to stop.
Hey! That corn was for the DEER!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
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They were actually feeding the deer so that the cougars had something to eat.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
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ha-ha-ha !
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kennyt
climber
woodfords,ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:21am PT
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Last night I needed to pee and get some water and noticed that the wife had left the computer on.
Before shutting it down I was a bit curious as who would be on the Taco at 2:30.
I wasn't expecting it to be you Dean.
I also figured this thread would go ballistic with inane comments.
I wasn't disappointed.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:33am PT
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Well,
It's been almost 40 years and she's still hanging around.
So she must not be too disappointed.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:58am PT
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"I also figured this thread would go ballistic with inane comments."
252 posts in less than 24 hours...the attention seeking mission has been accomplished!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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apogee... for a guy who lives in idyllwild you sure do a lot of trolling and not a lot of climbing. go on a hike, enjoy the nice weather, and re-evaluate why you feel the need to spread negativity.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:05am PT
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Apogee has cabin fever.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:10am PT
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I'm not judging...most of the time animals lose in these situation. We had a bear on the front porch trying to get back to our apple trees just a week ago.
He was shot out of the tree and relocated last week. I like that ending better.
It has been a rough summer here in Taos, no rain=no food for them.
Bear are special animals...the way they adapted in the winter months is nothing short of miracle.
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:16am PT
|
I thought this topic was LARGE beer in my house.
Where is Gilda Radner when you need her.
Never mind.
http://youtu.be/V3FnpaWQJO0
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:59am PT
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Y'all shoulda seen what a hungry grizz comin' outta his winter sleep could
do to a cabin on the outskirts of Wasilla. Come through a window? Why bother?
Just shove the door out of the way. I wouldn't want to confront one of them
with only a 40 Cal Beretta.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:38am PT
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One warm summers day, i was laying on my bed trying to take a nap with my tent door open. I heard a noise, look up and saw a bear leaning into my tent...The bear was close enough for me to touch it's Big head. I yelped, and it ran away. I scared it yelping.. and it scared me. ..I hardly ever left my tent door open after that incident .... Just a thin canvas tent wall between us and the bears.
Another time, me, K.B, and Doe, were false charged by a bear - while we were standing on the Tuolumne Lodge loading dock . We quickly ran inside and closed the dock door. It left..
Hey Lacey, were you there too?
I have many more Tuolumne Meadows bear stories...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:30am PT
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A .40 cal S & W is a good "stopper" caliber for humans and pretty good on large animals if the bullet selection has been correct. Cor-Bon ammunition or something pretty stout is reknowned as a "one shot fight stopper" in law enforcement circles.
For a bear I would probably select my .45 Long Colt with custom handloads; i.e: Elmer Kieth loads that give it more wallop than factory .44 Magnum performance.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:39am PT
|
I was upset about the picture earlier but reading the thread over , I finally get it.
Bragman is posturing in the photo to show whomever it was that threatened him and his family that if you come by his porch , that he has the ability to give you 4 or 5 in the head and one in the ass. Of course you may die in the driveway but he will say that A LARGE home invader was in my house.
Thank god the DA let him back on line.
Dean the drama of your story unfolding in the early hours on the internet is amazing, spectacular and beyond. A true hero.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:53am PT
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Rodger,
I'm just razzing Cragman a little.
Like they say at ___ , "Any gun will do if YOU will do."
Even a gun with an upside down safety lever made in a country, the military actions of which for the past century have been the stuff of comic opera.
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Bread
Trad climber
Craggy Mountains, NC
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:56am PT
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Handguns are not good home protection weapons. I'm sure there were no loved ones anywhere else in the house during this confrontation, as the OP would not have taken that kind of risk of stray bullets passing through walls and harming those sleeping in other rooms. If so, stray bullets were a greater risk to family members than the bear.
Shotguns are better home protection weapons as they don't carry the kind of velocity that centerfire pistol cartridges have and thus don't penetrate walls like pistol bullets do.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
|
Bread,
shotguns are like artillery; deployed from a fixed position into a known field of fire.
If Cragman had his wife and kids in a corner behind him and was covering the only way in then a shotgun is a good choice.
BUT,... if you have to go through doorways in the dark then a gun that requires 2 hands can become a liability. And what about a flashlight?
Better off with a pistol that has a light right on it leaving a hand free to work a doorknob or phone.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:12pm PT
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If anyone is looking to be offended, they should realize that around these parts, about any bear which shows up on a tree farm and starts scraping bark off the trees (this is very common and natural thing they do as they love licking the sap underneath the bark in the spring) can, will, and usually does get them killed in short order. Nothing to do with garbage, hunting season, or people, or being a threat like Deans bear was. If any bear simply becomes an economic pain to any tree farm, tree farmer gets a permit from Fish and Wildlife and that's it.
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Bread
Trad climber
Craggy Mountains, NC
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:17pm PT
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Discharging 5 rounds from a pistol within the confines of one's home is seldom a good idea. Even if you hit what you're aiming at, bullets could pass through the target, then pass though walls hitting a person in the next room, potentially resulting in an action one would have to live with the rest of their lives. Is a stray bear looking for food worth that kind of risk?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
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Blitzo looks naked without his pole , which can be a contact sport...
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Gene
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
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DUDE!!!!!!!!! What I don't get is why you didn't shoot that bruin with a bunch of tranquilizer darts, fire up the Bobcat, load it into your truck, and cart it off to Animal Rescue.
There are a bunch of folks here I’d like to see adopt it.
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Bread
Trad climber
Craggy Mountains, NC
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:23pm PT
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Ron, a bullet can't pass through sheet rock?
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apogee
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:26pm PT
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"Discharging 5 rounds from a pistol within the confines of one's home is seldom a good idea."
Umm, might want to re-read the OP. The bear was outside the house.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:46pm PT
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Never mind the handwringing monday morning quarterbacks.
When is Bearfest?
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:49pm PT
|
"I did what any prudent person would have done. Period."
No, actually you didn't. But I get you are not smart enough to have thought of other options.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
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" When is bearfest" ? And what will the dress code be...Camo undies and plaid jammies..?
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Bread
Trad climber
Craggy Mountains, NC
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:51pm PT
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Umm, might want to re-read the OP. The bear was outside the house.
Oh, my bad. Still don't think rifles or pistols are good in home protection. Shots get to flying in the heat of battle and walls are thin.
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O.D.
Trad climber
LA LA Land
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:51pm PT
|
A guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do. Glad you & family are OK. It's a sad testament to the consequences of leaving out, or giving food to, wild animals.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
|
Shots get to flying in the heat of battle and walls are thin.
I grew up in the northern border of Oceanside, drive bys can be fun, too!
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jstan
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:00pm PT
|
We, all of us pathetic, are sitting here doing worse than nothing. Screwing around with this bear.
We are finally seeing an end to the Iraq stupidity though our people are still getting shot to pieces in Afghanistan. Our economy is in the crapper at least partly because we tolerated outrageous fraud in our financial industry affecting each of us along with people all over the world. Unemployment and debt are out of control. Our medical system is permitted to overcharge by a thousand times when someone has no insurance.
And we do nothing because we can't agree on anything.
We are a joke.
I really hate having to say this.
But we are a joke.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
|
Hey Dean,
I'm that pinhead you refer to up thread.
Shooting a bear because you have to is not my gripe.
If anyone would second guess that situation, they were not there or dont understand.
Boasting on the intard net first thing afterwords, with your own press release photo and such is just lame. You say it was for scale and we understand the GRAND scale of it by your post.
There will be many more bears shot this season.
I'm glad that most of them are not sensationalized.
This thread should focus on the problem and not the glory.
EDIT. jstan - quit drifting or start another thread, its about the bears
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:17pm PT
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oh spare us the doom and gloom Stannard, a bear is dead, it's not the end of the world.
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apogee
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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+1 FF
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
|
Hi Ron,
Dont be misled by my avatar.
I have not posted to the trout thread and am not a fisherman.
But really, you compare the death of a bear and that of a fish to be the same?
The photo of the bear dead by itself in the driveway would of been enough but heck, then we wouldnt of got the scale.
EDIT. Dean can handle the heat , he's a good christian.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:31pm PT
|
Is this thread about bears or is it about some people not liking anything cragman does?
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
|
Ron,
Please post pictures!!!!!!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
|
Let's all grow up and face the facts of life: the bear was a repeat offender in the area and was doomed at the outset of this incident. It matters not whether the bear could/could not have been tranquilized and "relocated." The bear could not have been "re-educated."
Feeding large carnivores of any ilk is just a BAD IDEA. The real culprit was the person feeding the animal and keeping it bound to the particular neighborhood. We have a growing population and animal/human incidents will become even more commonplace in the future. Our desire to live in "nice places" isn't going to change either.
Dean simply did what was necessary to protect both his loved ones and property from damage/destruction. I would have done the same!!!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:01pm PT
|
Had many bears at my house in AK, including a rare brown. Everywhere including my pond, my deck, my grill, my trash can due to be dumped that morning etc.
I fired warning shots and ran them off. Never had one charge me. If that would've happened, it might've been different.
It seems Crag is guilty of nothing except a minor spray infraction and a more serious case of bad pj's......
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:08pm PT
|
I would of done exactly the same thing also.
You just wouldnt know about it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Spray infraction?
Shooting or posting?
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:12pm PT
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is funny
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
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Dang, Craggy. I just saw this, as I've been out In The World. Glad to see you & yours are all ok. Fricken bears gone bad, huh?
Yeesh.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
|
I have close to zero experience with guns, but I can completely imagine being sad about killing it, angry at the circumstances that led to it, and also feeling some sense of triumph in a survival man-versus-nature epic sort of way.
Here's my best bear story from a few weeks ago in Tuolumne Meadows campground. My kids were sleeping in a tent, and I was sleeping under the stars right next to it, my face all burrowed up in the sleeping bag. I woke up in early pre-dawn light to a heavy presence over me, the deep bass sound of huffing and sniffing on my face! I started to scream like the frightened little girl that I felt like, but immediately turned it into an angry roar. I heard it jump back, and within 2 seconds I was on my feet inside the sleeping back. A good sized black bear was staring at me from 20 feet away, with a smaller one about 20 feet beyond. I yelled again and they ran. I have pics of their prints in the mud 6 inches from the head of my sleeping bag. The next night I slept out again, but with a metal pot+lid inside the sleeping bag. I woke up from something nudging my head several times, and started yelling and banging the pots. It was too dark to see anything this time, and I never heard the sniffing. I went into the tent for the rest of that night and the remaining nights.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
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hey there say, nutjob.... whewwww...
glad to hear you and your kids were well, after all this....
on occasions, things can go worse...
thanks for the share....
*our family members have had a few bear encounters, too...
though, far as i know, this was ONLY many years ago, (except for one some years back)...
back before bears were so much bolder than they seem now...
whewww....
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 05:43pm PT
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Sad story Dean.
People are really stupid about wildlife. Where I live, on the lower slope of the San Gabriel Mountains east of Pasadena bears are regular visitors. Bear proof trash cans are available from the garbage service for a few bucks a year 'till the can is paid for then it's yours, but I am the only one among my neighbors who has one. The local bears regularly raid peoples trash cans up here and mine has some pretty impressive claw marks on it but they haven't got in it yet. These idiots who are too cheap to get the cans live in quite expensive houses. Boneheads.
My impression here is that the bears are getting bolder. Last year a mom and two cubs confronted me out where I keep the trash cans. I don't arm myself to take out the trash, it was a scary moment. She stood up on her hind legs and huffed at me and I backed away slowly heart in mouth. Close enough to smell her foul breath. More recently I had to chase two of the critters out of the garage after I left the door open for a minute. Again I was not armed but agressive behavior on my part convinced them to move on.
I never ever leave a door open to the house even for a minute. A lady just up the hill had one enter her kitchen through a screen door. She ran out and the bear destroyed the kitchen.
If a bear ever gets in my house or it looks to me like it is about to be succesful at entry it's a goner.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
|
Am I the only person who is stocked up on 12 bore rubber buckshot and flats?
Contrary to a few posts it is possible to teach bears that people are to be avoided.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:03pm PT
|
Am I the only person who is stocked up on 12 bore rubber buckshot and flats?
That's a great point. But if the bear is in my house a blast of rubber buckshot is only going to freak it out, piss it off and lead to a real mess. Will a freaked out po'd bear find its way out the way it came in? And if I start discharging a 12 ga every time one strolls through my yard here I'm going to get very familiar with the local hoosegow.
Interestingly the next town east from here, Duarte, passed an ordinace permitting home owners in a district adjoining the National Forest land to shoot at bears on their property. The rubber ammo would be a great "teacher" in that situation.
edit: If the bear was halfway through a window it might be worth a try, but the next shell in the tube is going to be a rifled slug.
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The reel deel
Boulder climber
Nunya
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:28pm PT
|
It's a damn shame that bear didn't get you first. One less pile the world would have to deal with.
Poor bear....
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Gene
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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The reel deel,
You sure went to a lot of effort to create a new account so you could show your stupidity.
g
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
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I did shoot the bear on my back porch several times. Did not go outside until he got off the porch, then I blasted away - with the camera. :)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:53pm PT
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Ah but Crimpie,
were you in your PJs?
Ksolem,
talk to the cops. Show them how light the shells are. Offer to stand 120m downrange and take a few to your back (don't worry the flats are worthless beyond 80-90m).
You might be surprised. They might see both the benefit and the safety of you hazing bears that get close to dwellings.
I'm also assuming you know how to short load a magazine so that you can quickly slide in some lead and eject the rubber in the chamber, the same way they teach tactical shotgunners to throw in a slug for a long shot.
If not, this is not the place to learn. Take a course.
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apogee
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:57pm PT
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"If that were Crimpergirl posing up behind the bear, don't tell me you guys wouldn't be all supportive, behind her 100%, high-fivin' the thread, etc.. "
Yeah, there'd probably be less noise, mainly because CG doesn't have the underlying 'look at me! look at me!' vibe going on most every time she posts, and she doesn't have a tendency to deride anyone who isn't 'of her kind'. There's a difference.
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apogee
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
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I thought you left?
Looking for more recognition?
Did you miss us?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:04pm PT
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I can only boast in my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Everything else is worthless by comparison.
Doesn't mean I would have circumcised the bear.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
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Alright folks, just a little update for those who don't want to read the entire thread to figure out what happened. A bear broke some screens at Cragman's house during the night so he freaked out, ran downstairs and outside with a gun, shot the bear five times in the head, and even shot it in the ass cause he was so skeered.
Cragman was so amped, he jumped on Supertopo to post a bitching tr about how badass he is (law enforcement fluffer, SAR, and some other meaningless shit) and ended up blaming the bear ("it chaarged me!!!!") and posed (in true dipshit poser style) with his kill , which in the photos appears to be running down the driveway to get away from his ignorant ass.
Now, instead of saying he over-reacted, he asserts that he saved the June Lake community from this violent predator (i.e., picnic basket thief). It seems we should be thanking him...
The bear never made it into the house, and really was pretty small.
Its a sad day for June lake and bears on the Eastside.
Thanks for returning to supertopo and showing us your kill!?!?!?!?! WTF?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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So endeth Atch's seminar in spin doctoring.
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apogee
climber
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
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Look, Cragman, I really don't take issue with your decision to take that bear out. Not having been there, and looking at the pics of your home, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt on your decision.
It's just that abu-ghraib style victory pic that rubs wrong. You could have posted this thread with all of the same text, and if you had omitted that one image and instead included a statement along the lines of 'I'm leaving out the bear images in the interest of respect for the animal' (or something like that), and it would probably would have quelled much of the snarky comments. (I might still have ribbed you for attention getting, though.)
What's amusing is how you post an image like that, knowing damn well that there are some who won't like seeing it (and will take advantage of the opportunity to rail on you), then feign indignation at the 'haters'. (And WTF does Christ & Christianity have to do with this, anyway?)
You are a well-liked staple & lightning rod of ST, and you've been around long enough to know how things work. Stop acting like a victim, and keep working on that slippery back.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:16pm PT
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But he IS a victim.
And I still want to know what a spray infraction is (at least I think I do).
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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Doesn't mean I would have circumcised the bear.
Yamake bear says" "Forced Circumcision? Oi Vey"? !!
Yamake bear also says "Haters gonna hate like dogs that bark at the Caravan, but the caravan continues"....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:38pm PT
|
That bear looks like he has lost more than the little turtleneck.
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:44pm PT
|
One less large rodent. A no-longer-problem bear.
Sounds like you had it cornered on the deck, with somewhat inferior artillery in your hand.
So it came towards you, absorbing rounds to the head as it went past you and off the deck to the driveway? I would have just stepped back inside but hey, I wasn't there.
The first bear I ever saw was a dead one. It was gigantic. This was in the sixties in Minnesota and they shot that thing just because it was in the garbage bins...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:47pm PT
|
Apogee... it seems you chose to interpret his post that way.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 07:52pm PT
|
I imagine certain posters would be even more indignant if, before taking the photo, Cragman had put his pajamas on the bear, but he could have gotten a much funnier thread title out of it,..
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
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t's just that abu-ghraib style victory pic that rubs wrong
In conjunction w/ the narrative, Crag's pic doesn't seem as gloating/victorious as abu-ghraib. I sorta saw it as "let me share what happened". Someone else can google abu-ghraib pix & compare 'em side by side if they want.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8310360
'"Two fast ones and then I heard the most awful sound of the bear groaning in agony," neighbor ... said.' At least Crag minimized the suffering of the bear he shot.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:09pm PT
|
For the record, I do own a pair of plaid pants that I wear in proudly in public. :)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:14pm PT
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Black bears DO have a very mournful cry.
I recorded a yearling that was caught in a trap set for its mother because she had swatted a camper the night before. She was caught and destroyed, and that yearling called for her for hours then, released, found itself on its own.
Life is tough in bearville.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
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Crimpy,
show us your plaid.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:20pm PT
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The only problem I see here are the pants.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
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Photoshop away. And put some plaids on me please. I'll look awkward with the gun though - not an owner.
My plaid pants ROCK! Too lazy to find the camera for a photo, but envision brown and pink bold plaid. I know you are jealous.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:43pm PT
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HAHAHAHAHAHAAA! Snort! Good one!
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Gene
climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 08:53pm PT
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There is a rather hilarious story on how I ended up with those pants.....
Do tell.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:24pm PT
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Just for the ST record: Cragman shooting the bear is good with me.
I would have likely used my 12 gauge pump-shotgun, rather than my 357 Magnum pistol.
Decisions, decisions.
As for those that call it a "little bear??" The dead bear looks bigger than Cragman to me.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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Cragman,
You did what you thought was right. It is not your first time to the rodeo.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
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Wow, nice shooting Tex.
My words exactly! 9mm? That's impressive! I was out fishing all weekend up at Almanor and got to do some shooting, .45 and all, and the 9mm round is quick but substantially small.
I was shooting my .45 into the water at about 30 degrees and the rounds were skipping on the lake! Only one skip, but it was weird.
Anyway, glad you took care of things, Dean.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:48pm PT
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"FINALLY...this is getting good! "
Damn skippy....bluering's here!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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Man, that is one beautiful bear.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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I was shooting my .45 into the water at about 30 degrees and the rounds were skipping
If the water is 30 degrees that explains why your bullets are skipping.
Where are you? Antarctica?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
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hey there say, cragman and all... i just keep thinking how lucky it was for all, that no one was out on the porch that night, watching the stars... :O
same with crimper's house, that time, too...
or, being out early in the morning to see the sunrise, :O
it's a hard call to decide for a nice evening outside, with those bears around :( ... whewwww....
*i did see an interesting article that said that bears had been so conditioned to raid garbage dumpsters etc, that when they can't get into them (the newer, bear-proof type ones), that THAT is one of the reasons that they have now been moving up to the houses...
this kind of made sense to me... before that, i kind of figured they'd just leave if they found nothing to eat... i was very surprised to read how many are trying to enter homes now... *i know: the've been preconditioned for too long, to come near... :(
looks like outdoor evening cook-outs are a no-go in some of these housing areas now?...
:(
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apogee
climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
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"Breaks my heart to have to kill this thing, but..."
as long as I capped this bee-otch, might as well get a glory shot for ST!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
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30 degree angle, Ron, for those who may be clueless. Apparently the slow and bulky .45 ACP round tumbles in the water a bit....It hits the water at a weird angle (30 degrees) and then skips. Probably the rifleing too and the bullet spin.
Still an awesome round though.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:03pm PT
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I can only hope for Cragmans sake that "His lord and savior Jesus Christ" Does'nt have a fondness for hungary black bears also one of gods creatures
Idiot.
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I knew there would be dipshits like this chiming in.
Do you even know Dean??? He already said his wife is a bear-hugger, animal lover.
At some point you gotta kill, or be killed.
Simple.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:17pm PT
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You still haven't put the pajamas on the bear.
Blue, gee I'd've never figured it out.
(But if you shoot a .45acp FMJ straight into water it remains intact and can retain substantial energy compared to a .223 that disintegrates)
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:20pm PT
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Haha! Fruc - good one!
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
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Stinkeye Bump!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
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Ron, no, it appeared as though the whole round skipped. not fragmented. It f*#king bounced once!
My father-in-law saw it too! "Did you see that round skip???"
Weird. All the more reason to be carefull where you're shooting.....
EDIT: Kenny, relax. I ain't into hate. Just back off Doug. He was protecting his family.
That' s all.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
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Sorry about the bear Cragman-tough call.
I can't help but chuckle though when I see this:
"I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I knew there would be dipshits like this chiming in"
Oh the irony...
Cheers,
DD
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
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Hey, Delhi, maybe you can elaborate.....How am I equally idiotic?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:43pm PT
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I just puked in my mouth.....
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apogee
climber
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
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"I ain't into hate. Just back off Doug. "
Ummm....the name's Dean.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Aug 22, 2011 - 10:58pm PT
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I would have 5150'd that bear.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Happy Boulders
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
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Y'all shoulda seen what a hungry grizz comin' outta his winter sleep could
do to a cabin on the outskirts of Wasilla. it was just pissed off at Sara Palin
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Happy Boulders
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:17pm PT
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I have a question. Cragman said that he first heard a couple of loud noises.
Isn't it possible the bear was looking for food, not people to eat?
Most bears are looking for easy pickings. They like to grab and run. Did you leave food out in plain sight? just wondering?
A few years ago, I was camping by Selden Pass. Sleeping out in the open. Sometime in the middle of I heard something walking pretty close to where I was sleeping.Turned on the headlamp, and saw a good sized bear. he goes down about fifty below me, and encounters some more people. turns out these folks had left a pot of chili out on their stove. the pot was gone the next morning. bottom line, bear did not molest me.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 22, 2011 - 11:19pm PT
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Maybe it was lookin' fer Craggy's bathrobe. Just maybe.
;-)
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:17am PT
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It's a tuff call since the bears in that neighborhood had become way too accustomed to feeding off the human food. Breaking into homes with my family home is not acceptable. If a Bear runs at me in my house, I'm shootin!
Did you field dress the bear Cragman and use it for food and tan the hide?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:20am PT
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And make yourself a fricken bathrobe?
Hehehe.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:22am PT
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The bear had to die.
Bottom line, end of story...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:32am PT
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Maybe the clan that the bear came from didn't like Clan MacRosnau or its tartan. Some ancestral grudge thing.
Anyway, another strategy for next time. Get a cat, instead of a lame ass dog.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 23, 2011 - 01:10am PT
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"Bottom line, end of story... "
Hear that, Doug? This thread can now be deleted!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 23, 2011 - 02:16am PT
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And exactly where are these woods to which you refer, wherein purple donkeys may be seen? Does RokJox also keep his wolves there, perchance?
Edit: OK, purple mountains as poetic licence. I don't see nuttin' about purple quadrupeds.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Aug 23, 2011 - 02:22am PT
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duh! in the purple mountains of course MH.
America The Beautiful by Katharine Lee Bates
O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 23, 2011 - 02:42am PT
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Well, that pretty much settles it. CC is stark, raving, fecking crazy as a nutball.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 23, 2011 - 08:18am PT
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"Hey, Delhi, maybe you can elaborate.....How am I equally idiotic?"
HAHA Like I can do a better job of elaborating...give yourself more credit than that.
Cheers,
DD
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 23, 2011 - 09:24am PT
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That bear looks like he has lost more than the little turtleneck.
Yes, it was a traumatic bris, sadly performed during an earthquake.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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The bear had to die.
Bottom line, end of story...
Who knows, maybe.
But I've dealt with endless bear encounters over 20 years in Tahoe.
Two adults in house upon returning, messy!
Two cubs in kitchen in middle of night.
Big Big Big bear in kitchen in middle of day, house right on golf course in Kings Beach.
And on and on and on and on and on....
None ever died due to my action or inaction.
What did "encourage" bears from bad behavior was an anode - cathode setup on the sliding glass door that was taken off the tracks by the bears, and the bear-trash-box that had been under continual attack.
No permanent damage but they got the message!
Through all of it Ann Bryant of the Bear League has been as useful as a wooden leg with a kick-stand.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:34am PT
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I would have sh#t my pants and died right there!
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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Oh. Being way up here in North BC on our way to Alaska I'm lookin' out! All I have is bear spray...wondering if I should get something more potent. Susan
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:42am PT
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Ron,... please delete.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:43am PT
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I agree with Piton Ron...^
Ron A., I like you because.. you are sweet to dogs..
But why in the Sam Hill -are you so into putting up sick pictures..I wish you would take it down..
besides, wasn't that guy in a tent when he was mauled.....I bet most people who are killed/mauled by bears -are outside camping...
I'm sorry, i agree with Leah...
Edit: Ron, thank you!!!....
edit:..Locker, are you coming to the Wedding?..If you are, I'm going to say hi..then.. i'm going to punch you in the shoulder ...heehe...so.. watch out..(-;
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
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BWA HA HA hahahaaaa!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:10pm PT
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Not really Fort-tool
Since it's a well known fact that such a tool as yourself who projects nothing but such bullsh'it is the one who actually engages in such behavior himself.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 23, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
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The rascally bear had a thing for my tent. I have never had food in my tent. But I think I chose a place he liked to hang out. So, he would go to other areas and bring back debris (plates, packages, etc) and lean against my tent to lick them (or whatever). He came back a few times and finally the ranger told me to tear the tent down and sleep in the rented SUV I had.
See- rangers in Yosemite sometimes condone sleeping IN vehicles!
It was a restless night as I imagined looking at the window to see the little devil peering inside.
Ew.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 23, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
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Oh Werner, Fort,
get out of the gutter.
Cragman is not that kind of animal lover.
He's just giving it a bear hug so that he can inhale the bear's spirit from its last breath.
He will now assume a new indian name,....
Dances With Pajamas
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 23, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
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Wow, isn't this the dream of every gun nut who sleeps with a loaded gun within reach of their bed?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 23, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
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Wow, isn't this the dream of every gun nut who sleeps with a loaded gun within reach of their bed?
You know nothing of "gun nuts" do you??? Sleeping next to a loaded weapon?
Yeah, that's smart.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 23, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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Wow, isn't this the dream of every gun nut who sleeps with a loaded gun within reach of their bed?
Quite honestly; no.
We dream about cheaper ammo (and prefer the term "enthusiast").
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:01pm PT
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Am I the only one who feels it important to know what happened to the bear after it was killed? Was the spirit of the bear respected or was it hauled off to the dump?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
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glad yr ok. if it was housebreaking regularly, it was probably just a matter of time before animal control or f&g whacked it.
idk about the online trophy pix, though. every eastside tweaker w. a web connection can now know you keep a beretta in yr bedroom and are a heavy sleeper.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:13pm PT
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"Maybe not to most, but I do understand that this kind of incident can be very emotional for some people."
With this great level of compassion for 'those people', I posted this picture as a way to say.....SUCK ON IT, BEEOTTTCCCHEEESSS....
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:17pm PT
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Screw the bear.
Whats up with those hideous pants???????????
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:17pm PT
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Guns that aren't loaded can't help you. That's a real fancy stick.
I dig those pants. Stylee, Craggy. Some folk know how to approach bear encounters with style & flair.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:26pm PT
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The Mono Co landfill has a animal carcass dump where the deer from the highway slaughter go. Bet that Bruin ended up there. What a waste, People who feed bears WTF!!!!!
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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The next time there's a bump in the night Cragman, would you mind strappin' on the Go-Pro? This would've been priceless video. And the naysayers would get to feel what its like to have a big burly beast grunting at them at close range.
Sheesh, its the Facebook/Helmetcam/Twitter/Forum/Youtube generation! Be prepared next time!
Bummer the bear had to go, but good job doing it right. I don't blame you. I keep just an ice ax under my bed, you've got me thinkin' I might need to upgrade.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:52pm PT
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Bummer the bear had to go, but good job doing it right. I don't blame you. I keep just an ice ax under my bed, you've got me thinkin' I might need to upgrade.
Same here, but I'm not worried about the four legged critters.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 23, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
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A raccoon woke me up last night- he got in my trash. I capped that sucka in my skivvies. FACT!
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:10am PT
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Locker....LOL
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:12am PT
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if he kept an ice ax, both the bear and cragman would be alive today. No serious person doubts that.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:23am PT
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If he kept an ice axe under his bed the bear and Cragman would still be alive..? Yeah , but knowing Cragman he'd invite the bear out for a sunday climb then invite the rest of the family over for dinner...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:26am PT
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Cragman...Hopefully you saved that bear for your next remodel...Never know when you'll have to fur out some walls...
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:39am PT
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One might react differently with a bear in their face. I ain't no quarterback, on Monday or whenever. The man onsite makes the call.
Talk is cheap, as always.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:46am PT
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Riley,
admit it. You're really just upset over Cragman's fashion statement.
(still think he should have put the PJs on the bear)
Looks like Riley deleted.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:49am PT
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Word Skully.
Only two possible scenarios here.
1. A bear sighting...we all say pudry bear and chuckle at a couple broken screens. Cool.
2. A spooky and dangerous situation that ends up with a dead animal and a live human. Reality.
Anybody who wasn't there has absolutely no grounds for judgement and ends up lookin' silly for saying...."I wooda___." End of story.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:51am PT
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Some prefer a shot and a bear.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:57am PT
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Plaids come in silk? I thought they only came in scratchy wool.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:00am PT
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So the bear was an unwitting victim of a fashion crime, maybe hoping to make a bearizen's arrest?
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:02am PT
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This thread is unbearable...and that my friends ..is the 444..
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:03am PT
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Can't believe nobody has said "Dead bears don't wear plaid."
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apogee
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:06am PT
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"Breaks my heart to have to kill this thing..."
"It breaks my heart to have to take this bear down."
"...but I do understand that this kind of incident can be very emotional for some people."
"I am NOT a hunter in any sense of the word..."
"...never said I was proud of it, and never will."
"it's not like I am some gun-happy dipshit who loves to kill things. "
"If it broke your heart to kill that thing you would'nt be posing for photos with the bear and your gun. and then posting them here."
"Post killing a bear on a climbing forum and you should expect some responses that may not be plaased with said post. "
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Aug 24, 2011 - 05:08am PT
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Hi Crag,
I've been following this thread from the beginning and I have only one question: why the hell did you go out that door?
OK. It's not just one question. But most are just for clarification. So you come into the kitchen after hearing noises, you see a bear who's head and
front legs are in your window, you yell at it, it starts to back out so that it has to either jump off of your deck 10' to the ground or continue along the path of least resistance along the deck witch will ultimately lead him to you, whom have just stepped out that door, onto that deck and in his way? Why??
Glad you and your family is safe.
Sean
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 24, 2011 - 06:54am PT
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Cragman seems like a nice guy and it seemed like he didn't have too many choices at the time.
Butt apogee does make a valid point IMHO about the picture posing (though the fallout from those silly PJ's are pretty funny).
Curious about Crag's response to that post...
Cheers,
DD
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:08am PT
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Just finally checked out this thread.
What a bummer.
Crag, your explanation above sounds reasonable enough to me.
Still, such a bummer.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:24am PT
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Dean-
What others here don't seem to comprehend is the high-stress scenario that was facing you. I would probably have done the same thing as you while wearing MY plaid pajamas!
After facing a potential lethal threat, I would still be carrying my gun as well; I hope you had already reloaded! The possibility of a second aggressive carnivore could not be ruled out either.
To everyone else: the property damage and broken window glass would have sent me ballistic; any time a wild animal does extensive property damage as a repeat offender, the G & F would have eliminated the critter. My hat is off to Dean for his follow-up in dispatching a wounded animal. To me, allowing a wounded bear loose in the neighborhood would have been more criminal than the "feeders." The fact is--bears and humans have been in conflict through millennia.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:27am PT
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I woulda been freeballin'. So no matter how hideous those Lands End pj's are, thanks for wearing them.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:40am PT
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Thanks Cragman for the explanation.
I know that is some scary shite.
One thing that gives me the heebee jeebees is when I'm in the backcountry alone, at night, and a beer shows up.
Must have been some adrenalin pumping besides that finger.
Cheers,
DD
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:53am PT
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Hey Dances With Pajamas,
how do you keep your sidearm ready?
You might consider a duty belt, especially since you don't have a light on that thing.
You could have some pepper spray, quick-ties and a spare clip too.
I don't know if you can get it in plaid though,..
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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I kept the gun in my hand should there be another animal out there as aggressive as this one.
I still have to laugh at that one. So it was safe enough to take multuple photos, decide the scale was off and have your daughter take some more photo's with you in them flashing your .40. But it was not safe enough that you needed a loaded hangun while in your own driveway.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 11:00am PT
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"He posts hate against ANYTHING I post, because he hates that I am a conservative Christian."
I tell ya, Cragman, that anytime you make a victim post like that ('I'm just an oppressed Christian conservative', you're gonna elicit a response from someone.
For the record, there's at least one other conservative Christian here at ST who I have great respect for, and have regular, productive dialogues with. Your religion (and even your ideology) have nothing to do with it.
I've posted this at least twice thusfar, but I'll do it again: I don't criticize your decision- I wasn't there, and give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
It's the double-talk about how badly you felt about it, juxtapositioned against that victory shot, then feigning surprise and indignation that anyone criticizes you on this, and attributing it to the fact that they just don't like your religion and ideology. Give us a feckin' break.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 24, 2011 - 11:16am PT
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Wow this just keeps getting better.
"I went in for my camera. I took 8 photos of the bear, and after looking at the pics,"
So ... where was the loaded gun during this time ? who was outside when you went in ?
and , How did you ever decide which great shots to publish?
Havent you learned anything yet from hangin with Flanders.
Humble is good.
1. An admirable quality that not many people possess. It means that a person may have accomplished alot, or be alot but doesn't feel it is necessary to advertise or brag about it.
The bear was humbled.
"Just two weeks prior to this incident, there were two bears killed by another local after these two bears broke into his home for 11 nights straight."
I applaud the patience of your neighbor and its amazing that 2 bears were killed and nobody outside of June has heard of it or seen pictures.
One more question , How is it that the dining room window isnt open more if the head and front paws were in the house and the bear had to back out? That opening seems small for such a LARGE bear.
The bear is dead. Can we just get on to your next sensational acts.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
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Damn! I thought this was gonna be about Flanders being back to his normal self, moving in with you and then eating you outta house and home! Great Minds think alike, Chief. That was my first thought when I read the thread title!
Joking aside.
Dean, no apologies needed. You did what you had to do, I'm sure not with any joy. I feel badly for the bear, one more innocent beast caught in the conflict of the urban/wilderness interface. I suppose the good news is there's obviously a large population of bears in the area and losing one has no affect on the big picture.
If there are people feeding them, that DEFINITELY has to be stopped.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
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Dean, as for your pic with the bear: you're definitely a fashion FAIL. I'd have been in nothing but boxers. Would have made me look much more studly for the glory pic.
Joking aside (again)
That's a very interesting pic for two reasons. Obviously that's a LARGE Black Bear. I don't believe I've seen one that big. Your face tells it's own story: shock and awe on your part. You certainly weren't in it for sport.
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Brian
climber
California
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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As a "sometimes poster, mostly lurker" over the years it absolutely astounded me how quickly Supertopo threads, on almost any subject, degenerate into name-calling, vitriol, personal attack, and anonymous internet swagger. It's the reason I spend only a trivial amount of time here. I come back for the good threads, the climbing TRs, and--hope springs eternal--the notion that the anonymous hacks and trolls will eventually go away.
I've got to imagine that some of the worst offenders in this regard either (a) behave very differently in person and don't greet every single difference in opinion, no matter how minor, with a hail of abuse, (b) have absolutely no friends or acquaintances because of said vitriol and misanthropy, (c) have very few teeth from having been laid out so many times (eventually we all come up against someone bigger, stronger, or meaner), or (d) some combination of the above.
Give it a rest. Most of us think Dean acted reasonably in a situation that he couldn't foresee. I certainly do. If some of you disagree, just let it go. I can see the point of arguing out something substantive; but, seriously, if you've got nothing better to do than to second guess why a man stepped outside to make sure his home was secure, or why he took a picture after he confirmed that it was, you really need to develop some other interests. Maybe try climbing. It's pretty fun!
Somewhat less seriously, what's wrong with plaid?
Brian
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
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Nothing (if you want to be known as Old Tartan Drawers, but maybe the "4 in the head and 1 in the ass" will eclipse the fashion statement,..)
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 24, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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Wow. Impressive shootin'!
Curious if you picked the round specifically for an encounter of this sort? FMJ? Was it the Fiocci ammo? Reasonable velocity.
Any idear if all the head shots penetrated the skull?
Thanks for sharing!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
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Instead of ST you should have put the photo on ebay and auctioned the PJs for Flanders.
Unfortunately in Utah it is not illegal to feed bears, just stupid.
(And there is plenty of THAT in this state.)
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apogee
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
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Ya know, I don't really give much of a shite about some/most of the pics that get posted here. I figure it's pretty much caveat emptor for the viewer. Boobies, blue butt plugs, tub_girl....it's all good (as long as CMac is kewl with it).
If you post something that's kinda gnarly, you better be ready to stand by it unequivocally, and expect some yellow custard in your direction. Or don't post it at all.
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Aug 24, 2011 - 04:00pm PT
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Here is a photo of another(?) June Lake bear. I was doing a remodel in the village a few years ago. One day I found out that the previous night a bear had broken the glass in the door of the house next door and gone inside. The occupant, a widow in her seventies, heard the noise and headed for the kitchen to investigate. There was this bear sitting in front of the open refrigerator scarfing down a big meal. She hustled back to her bedroom tried to barricade the door and called 911. By the time someone arrived the bear was gone. I screwed some plywood over the door opening. The next night the bear came back and tried to tear of the plywood. The owner of the house I was working on heard the noise, came out onto his third floor deck, took this photo and yelled until the bear went away. The next day I made a more substantial barrier.
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Gene
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
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They are very fearfull [sic] of humans, dogs, and {snip}. Which explains why the bear tried to enter Dean’s house.
Shows zero respect for a creature that was obviously young and for that matter not that large. Respect? Huh?
Dean stated:
After I yelled at him, the bear backed out of the window. I heard the deck rail get trashed, and figured he had gone right through it and jumped off the deck. And so he went outside and the bear charged. What was your point?
g
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Gene
climber
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Aug 24, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
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thaDood says:
Maybe I am a bit to sentimental or something for this day and age, but there seems to be a lack of respect, a lack of something sacred to life itself...all life. Once again i am not saying that it was not necessary, it is just what follows that seems to lack any sort of dignity...
I think, thaDood, that you, me, and Dean all view this whole episode as very unfortunate but necessary given how it went down.
Lack of dignity for who or what? This is where you lose me.
Is your concern directed at how Dean reported the event and/or the ambiguity of the thread title? The picture?
As an aside, any bear breaking into a person’s house is HUGE.
Cheers,
g
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Aug 24, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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DANG!! Sorry that things had to end as they did, but they could have ended MUCH differently... That's some quick thinking and action on your part,Dean!! Glad you and yours are safe and sound.
To that, you sure you're not a born-and-bred southerner?! Those kind of reflexes are innate in these parts... :D
As a "sometimes poster, mostly lurker" over the years it absolutely astounded me how quickly Supertopo threads, on almost any subject, degenerate into name-calling, vitriol, personal attack, and anonymous internet swagger.
Really?! I've come to expect it on most threads (including the ones I begin) and am pleasantly surprised when things DON'T go sour.
It's the reason I spend only a trivial amount of time here. I come back for the good threads, the climbing TRs, and--hope springs eternal--the notion that the anonymous hacks and trolls will eventually go away. meh... the entertainment:filter required ratio's sometimes worth it, sometimes not. Pick your battles and figure out when it's time to walk away. Sounds like life to me!
S
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 05:54pm PT
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Wow - i hadn't looked at this thread until now! I thought
it was just some typical OT joke thread....Wow - good shot
Dean. Sorry the bear had to go down but I can't see any other
way this pans out in the long run for that bear. Glad you and
your fam is ok.
kev
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 26, 2011 - 06:46am PT
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bump in the night
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 26, 2011 - 09:10am PT
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Cragman is a blowhard
and it looks like he finally put a cork in his mouth after he removed his
foot.
Lets hope the crazy "Look at my gun " guy can keep it home and not take it to the Facelift.
Hey Dean, there are bears that show up in the campsites, maybe you should work on your blowhard techniques to scare them off.
Disgustingly,
Gregg Pusateri
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 26, 2011 - 09:22am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is classical radical!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 26, 2011 - 09:57am PT
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Cragman is a blowhard
and it looks like he finally put a cork in his mouth after he removed his
foot.
Lets hope the crazy "Look at my gun " guy can keep it home and not take it to the Facelift.
Hey Dean, there are bears that show up in the campsites, maybe you should work on your blowhard techniques to scare them off.
Disgustingly,
Gregg Pusateri
.....speaking of blowhards.
Disgustingly,
Everyone else on this site
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 26, 2011 - 10:23am PT
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Hey CM
speak for yourself.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 26, 2011 - 11:26am PT
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Ditto to FF.
PR, why did you bump this? Hasn't it run it's course? You bump it and add nothing new to the discussion, thereby opening it to still more criticism (and alignment) with Cragman...what's the point?
Or do you just enjoy watching fireworks? (Isn't that what trolls do?)
Edit: Just looked at the time you posted- 3:46 am- now I get it. You're bored. Kinda sad, actually.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 26, 2011 - 11:38am PT
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I'm curious about all the deleted posts.
And apparently Apogee doesn't get the pun in a thread about a bear going bump in the night.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Aug 26, 2011 - 11:47am PT
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I agree with you Ron A.
Im not sure why this gets me so much but I (pinhead/sucker) have to let it go.
It is always hard to get an even mix of just humans let alone a mix of humans and other animals.
The only one who knows what happened is Cragman. He says he did what he had to do and I do believe him. Bears go down all the time up here on the Eastside. Seldom to never will you see the person who takes them down with a weapon in a photo . Its just not in good taste. Neither is posting a second smiling.
It bothered me, Its done. I will now let it go.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Aug 26, 2011 - 12:26pm PT
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Riley,
That was funny!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 26, 2011 - 01:08pm PT
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I am from the clan of the black bear.
Is the dingus on a black bear larger than other bears?
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Bronwyn
Trad climber
Not of This World
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Aug 26, 2011 - 01:14pm PT
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Is there any truth to the rumour that it was in fact LEB who pulled the trigger, and that she was standing on a grassy knoll in Area 51 when she did it?
Funniest post EVER!!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 26, 2011 - 01:21pm PT
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And I think DMT knows Daryl Hannah.....
Without ron's bump in the night we would not have
then a romp through the Buttermilks killing skinny asian boulderers by the dozens.
And that would be shame.
Dean did what he thought best at the time, get over it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 26, 2011 - 01:23pm PT
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And I think DMT knows Daryl Hannah.....
Without ron's bump in the night we would not have
then a romp through the Buttermilks killing skinny asian boulderers by the dozens.
And that would be a shame.
Dean did what he thought best at the time, get over it.
Though those pj bottoms are disturbing....
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Aug 26, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
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Well, I think learned a few valuable lessons from this mess.
First, if a bear is outside of your home at 1:00 am, do not go outside with a gun, cause if it comes towards you, you may freak out, overreact and could end up shooting the poor thing.
Second, if you are dumb enough to do #1, do not brag and lie about it on the internet, by posting photos and making up bs like "it charged me!!!!". Its obvious Dean's story was false, and the bear didn't have to die for Dean's incompetence.
Third, guns suck, and idiots with guns suck even more. Try the old pot and pan thing, or maybe buy bear spray if you live in bear prone areas. Hell, shoot the gun in the air and see if that scares it off. Or better yet, stay in your house and turn on some lights.
What a shame this bear was slaughtered for ripping some screens. Hey Dean, any chance there was food on the counters in the kitchen? You only have yourself to blame for how this ended.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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Multiple headshots in the dark after being woken up in the middle of the night and being scared out of your mind?
And not a single round missed? With a stinkin' pistol nonetheless! WHAT? What are you? A Seal or something?
I've been shooting various things for a long, long time. That's Godlike pistol work if it's true...
And what ammunition were you using in the .40? Obviously nothing penetrated the brain, did the rounds glance off the skull?
Bear medicine around here is 12g slugs if need be. Never had to yet though. They've gotten bold around here but not breaking into houses yet.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
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Ron, i am not telling you anything. But, if I lived where bears frequently travel, I would not be a dumbass and take precautions for my sake and the bears.
Dean blamed others (he is good at that) for feeding the bears. Any idea if food was out on the counters in Dean's kitchen? I wouldn't blame the bear for trying to get a freshly baked pie off his counter. Which would obliterate the carnivorous predator story he offered.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:24pm PT
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Third, guns suck, and idiots with guns suck even more. Try the old pot and pan thing, or maybe buy bear spray if you live in bear prone areas. Hell, shoot the gun in the air and see if that scares it off. Or better yet, stay in your house and turn on some lights.
Well I actually agree with you about the idiots, but if guns suck so bad then why would you have one to fire into the air.
And you must have a great deal of experience with black bears with especially guilty consciences who run away when the lights are turned on.
I mean,...... you do, right? (otherwise I'm sure you wouldn't post it, right?)
Where exactly does one find this sub-species (ursus shrinking violet?)
Hey Ron,
did you catch the part in The Edge where they follow a river for miles but find out that they have gone in a big circle and wind up at they're old campsite?
Who writes this shlt?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:27pm PT
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Only human flesh would have satiated that bear.
Bottom line, it had to die.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:32pm PT
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I would prefer grizzlies and wolf packs to hordes of urban commando-type hunter wannabes.
DMT,
I couldn't agree with you more on this. It was really disturbing to see all the wannabes riding around on Beasore/Minerets last weekend. Fricking standing on their jeeps looking for bears - LAME.
kev
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:40pm PT
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The version of the story I heard - and I'm more sure it is true than this one went like this. There was this little blond girl, and she got caught sleeping and was found in baby bears bed after first trying the Papa Bear and Mama Bears beds which she found uncomfortable, I think the little bitch ate their portage as well and chilled in their chairs first....I don't remember what happened when she was caught by the bears, but caught she was: and as she was unarmed I suspect it was real bad.
I probably screwed that story up, as I heard it a long time ago. But that's the gist of it anyway. The moral and this is real important, don't trust those F*ing bears in your house, or in their house either for that matter...keep your doors locked and stay away from little blond girls who are just wandering around in the woods for no good reason.
That's what I heard anyway - but it was a long long time ago. Take care all!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 26, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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Riley: Re your comment: This bear doesnt like human eyes and face, for some reason, and so its victims are usually found with their eyeballs eaten out and their face eaten off.
Seems to me like this fact means those bears LIKE:
human eyes and faces;)
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Aug 26, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
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I shot a bear in my pajamas. What he was doing in my pajamas...etc (Groucho)
Yikes! Glad all is well, Cragman.
Edit below, Probably so Piton Ron, cause I didn't read all 500+ posts my bad.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 26, 2011 - 10:06pm PT
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There is a strange echo in this place,..
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GZ
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:12pm PT
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You'll have a lot of fine dining this winter by the looks of it. ;)
Send me a note Dean, it's been ages.
-George Z
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:22pm PT
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Bear's good eatin' and their pelts make warm coats. Their teeth and claws make nice necklaces!
Bear's are useful.
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thetennisguy
Mountain climber
Yuba City, CA
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:44pm PT
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Nice Job! Curious what your Beretta is chambered in.
Excellent Shooting under extremely difficult circumstances!
Ok I read further .40 5 to head one to the ass! Nice!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
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Did this get bumped because Chris listed it in the ST News?
Hey Cragman, how're the therapy sessions going? They make you cry for the bear yet? ;)
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
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Still wahckin' away after 550 posts?
Sh#t I'm gonna put up some pics of me in my bad pj's too!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
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Contrary to Nepalese folk lore that sloth bears deliberately try to disfigure people,
I think people lose eyes and faces to them because they attack standing up and what's in reach are human faces.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 31, 2011 - 05:58pm PT
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Sloth bears, though omnivores, evolved to eat termites (long claws and snouts).
Many human attacks are territorial displays rather than predations.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Crag...can i borrow that 40 cal..bear ripped the door off my honda the night before last..It was a chilly drive to work..RJ
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Betty Uno
Boulder climber
Colorado
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That breaks my heart too.
At least do something with all that meat, and tan the hide.
Make necklaces with the claws and so on.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Yeah Cragman...at least make a new pair of pajamas out of that bear..
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Riley-
It's true that the most dangerous animal in Nepalese national parks is the bear. However, bears are dangerous everywhere in the world for the same reasons. They can't see or hear well and they tend to charge first and think later.
However, I believe the story of ripping off faces of whole villages is just folklore. Buddhist Nepalese in particular don't know much about wildlife since they don't hunt it and therefore don't study it. They'll also tell you that every snake is poisonous which also isn't true.
We had plenty of those bears in the valley below the Sherpa settlements where I lived, and they ran if you made noise and didn't get between them and their cubs.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The rhinos are dangerous too for the same reasons. Charge first and think later! But you can climb a tree to get away from them.
The villagers just outside Chitwan National Park down in the jungle, guard their rice crop from the rhinos by grabbing them by the tail and burning them in the butt with bamboo torches until they cross the river back into the park. Can you imagine? Rhinos running toward the river with burning bamboo stuck against their rear and a little guy hanging on to the tail and running behind them for dear life. That I've seen with my own eyes.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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I'm using this incident as a platform to bring change/enforcement to laws here on the east side in regards to people feeding bears.
We don't have enough laws already. Cough* cough*. Education is the key, might consider a flier tucked into everyone's garbage can as well as looking at enforcement issues. Good luck Dean, and good on you for shooting (.....errr, wrong word I suppose) for something positive.
BTW, concerning the bears in Nepal stories, everyone over there knows that Yetis are much more dangerous Riley. Right Jan?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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RINOS can be quite treacherous..!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Couch that photo is hilarious!
How do they put the cuffs on?
And can you imagine the scene in the holding cell where the guy who just robbed a liquor store looks over and says, "Wha'd they get YOU for?"
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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They have shot two black bears in the northeastern suburbs of Vancouver in the last week. Those suburbs abut what for practical purposes is mountain wilderness. Given that we had a late spring and poor summer, the berry harvest may be marginal this year, which will mean all the more pressure on bears to forage in the frontier zones. The humans forget that they've moved into a zone which is also frontcountry, next door to wilderness, and that it's the home of bears, cougars, coyotes, and other foragers. Not to mention occasional forest fires. Managing that zone is an increasing problem, not helped by naivete on the part of many humans.
Cougars seem a greater threat to humans in Squamish than black bears. Luckily the grizzly bears that aren't far from Squamish are pretty shy.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Couchmaster-
It is my belief that the yeti are bears from Tibet which are very similar to grizzlies. Messner did a good job on that kind of research.
The tales of them being apes are the result of mixing Tibetan folklore concerning the origins of the human race (half Ape and half female goddess) and the terror that is the yeti.
Whatever it is, one killed a friend's 800 pound ox and lifted it over a stone wall and then drug it half a mile one memorable night in Rolwaling, after first trying to break through the roof of the family's house.
There are fewer and fewer encounters now, I believe, because the Chinese have killed bears along with most of the other wildlife of Tibet.
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apogee
climber
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"Thirdly, the State is broke, and subsequently, DFG manpower is diminished. They do not have the personnel to follow up on these people whom are feeding the animals. THIS HAS TO CHANGE!"
Sounds like as long as the gov't agency relates to an interest of yours, it's a 'good' form of gov't that should be preserved and enhanced. What if it's an gov't agency that doesn't align itself with your interests, or you disagree with (i.e. OSHA, maybe)?
In any case, good on ya for getting involved. Not nearly enough of that kind of initiative these days.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Don’t kid yourself. Bears have for decades (centuries?) gone to great lengths to get human food. Many old cabins in Yosemite have bruin baffles to lock up food and grain (Snow Creek Cabin & Merced Lake RS, ect.). Conventional homes without special measures like this in bear habitat are always going to get broken into by opportunistic bears. Don’t blame the bears.
Whenever bears broke into my cabin in Yosemite, I just scared them off. When a bear strolled into the Ahwahnee dinning room one afternoon, we sacred it off. Black bears in the Sierra are like a feral dog coming to a BBQ - no intent to harm people, ever.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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According to Professor George C. Frison (the "Paleoarchaeologist of the 20th Century" and Fellow of the National Academy of Sciences), there is plenty of archaeological evidence that man-bear encounters have been going on for all discernable archaeological history. Basically, man and bears are incompatible and are attempting to occupy the same ecological niche.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Last time I stayed at Lower Pines a mother bear swatted a camper causing minor injury.
It was captured the following night, but not before the yearling cub was caught first and catterwaulled for a few hours.
They can really raise the dead, quite the racket.
The mother was taken and destroyed and the cub released.
According to the ursine manager in Yosemite Valley male bears of breeding age are rarer and get more mercy.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
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"destroyed" is a stupid term
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
The underlying problem isn't so simple to solve. That being that the population of black bears in the Sierra has doubled in the last few decades. LIttle wondering that they're trying to expand their niche.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
|
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Haha,
I always know when it's cragman being quoted by the usage of "whom."
:)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
"destroyed" is a stupid term
ms55401, ever see what 12 bore slugs do?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Bruce-
I was merely quoting Professor Frison; there was plenty of evidence of bears invading caves in France where early Cromagnon humans were devastated by bears. The gnaw marks on the bones of human remains, etc.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
SEND IN BILLY THE EXTERMINATOR! WOOT!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
And you think bears are bad!
Wild elephants rampage in Kailali
A herd of wild elephants has dismantled 20-22 houses at different places in the east of Kailali district for the past two days, according to RSS.
Area Police Office, Tikapur, informed RSS that a group of about 35 wild elephants dismantled mud houses at different places including the camp of freed Kamaiyas at Tikapur Municipalty-9, Bijayanagar, Sitapur VDC- 8, Shahipur and Jagatpur village of Durgauli VDC.
The tuskers have spread terror among the locals. It is said the herd of wild elephants goes to the nearby forest during the daytime and enters the villages at night.
The rampaging wild elephants have also destroyed paddy and maize crops.
Locals of the area are compelled to spend whole night awake, keeping vigil for fear of elephant rampage.
It is expected that the herd of wild elephants might have come from the Bardiya National Park and the adjoining Duduwa National Park of India. nepalnews.com
http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2011/sep/sep05/news01.php
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Probably Republicans in early disguise for Hallowe'en, doing their best to terrify and confuse the ordinary folk. Isn't the elephant the symbol of the Republicans? But I'm pretty sure that no one has adopted the bear as their symbol, and that those who did (California - flag) exterminated them.
Hey, I'm trying to keep up my end of the conversation - Jan, Moosie and me seem just about the only ones online tonight, and she's ten hours ahead or something. But I'm going climbing tomorrow.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
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Elephants definitely drink more beer.
Home brew made by the locals in northeast India which the elephants started consuming (it's made from an alcoholic grain mash which they love) is the main cause of elephant - human conflict there.
At this point neither humans nor elephants can give up the habit.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
|
|
as habitat diminishes and conflicts with people increase, could this be the plight of all all bears worldwide?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2011/0503/Italy-s-largest-animal-is-on-the-brink-of-extinction
Italy's largest animal is on the brink of extinction
The Marsican bears are the largest land animal in Italy, but they could soon be gone from the country's forest and mountains because of traffic accidents, illegally hunting, and unintentional poisoning.
1 and 11 E-mail Reddit StumbleUpon
By Nick Squires, Correspondent / May 3, 2011
Rome
They are the largest terrestrial animal to roam Italy’s forests and mountains, but size has proved no guarantee of survival for Marsican bears. A subspecies of the European brown bear, the breed is now one of the rarest types of bear on the planet.
The population has dropped from around 100 in the 1980s to just 50 today, new research shows, after an increase in the number of animals killed in traffic accidents, illegally shot, or poisoned by bait intended to kill wolves. One bear was found dead on May 3, likely killed by a car.
The number of bears has fallen “below the threshold of survival,” says Giuseppe Rossi, the head of the National Park of Abruzzo, Lazio, and Molise, where most of the bears live.
A new conservation initiative, the €5 million ($7.3 million) Life Arctos project, partly funded by the European Union, is due to run until 2014. Efforts will include putting electric fences around beehives and vegetable gardens to deter the beasts from foraging for food near human populations. Volunteers will plant fruit-bearing trees to which the bears are especially partial, encouraging them to search for food up in the hills rather than around settlements.
The bigger challenge, though, is to stop the bears’ territory from being continually diminished. Italy’s national parks are poorly protected and development is often allowed within their borders – from ski runs and new roads to hydroelectricity projects.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
|
|
Hi guys and gals,
First time poster short time lurker.
I can't believe no one posted this on this thread yet.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/07/05/bc-woman-bear-autopsy.html
"There was evidence that Adolph, 72, had been partially consumed by bears, but before the autopsy, police were not sure how she died."
and a follow up report
http://www.livescience.com/15569-bear-attack-forensic-investigation-dna-analysis.html
I live in whistler and we have lots of black bears here. I had one at my bathroom window while my girlfriend was in there and she freaked out and shut it in his face, then he went for the back door which was locked fortunatly.
I was on my way to go climbing at the time, but i had to wait while the bear lumbered down the side of my house and through my front yard. He was a juvenile bear, probably only a yearling.
I watched him go next door from my kitchen window and when i thought we was gone i went outside to load my gear in the truck.
My neighbor pulled up as I was doing this and said "did you see our visitor here?". I said "Yes I saw him before but I thought he was gone?". He said "No he's right there!" pointing towards the side of his house.
I saw him and started yelling at him aggressively and my neighbor layed on the horn and he bolted.
I used to think black bears were harmless too, but this latest news changed that thinking.
I would love to buy a gun to defend myself with but unfortunatly I would be crucified even if I shot the bear in my house in this town.
RMOW (Resort Municipality Of Whistler) forces us to keep our garbarge in the house till we take it to the one of the two "Municipal Waste Transfer Stations". So fortunatly most people don't leave attractants outside but the bears are still attracted to smells from houses and garbage in cars.
I almost had one in my truck the other morning as a result of that. Gotta remember to be more vigilant.
I love bears but not more than i love life!
Mike
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
|
|
FACT: SOME BEARS ARE GREASE-BALLS
A bear tried to feed on this delicious Mercedes at Onion Valley. Totally greased the whole thing.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Bears are portable garbage dumps in their feeding habits. They will eat whatever they find, although I've never seen on eat a dead skunk, as vultures will.
Locker's post was also interesting about "seeing food left unattended" through the windows! My house has Atrium doors and I HAVE seen raccoons trying to get in while I'm sitting at the table eating. I would be very reluctant to kill a bear here on my ranch, since they aren't really a major probem (yet?). There has been only one bear-human interaction in 16 years I've lived here, and that involved one on the neighbor's elderly and Alzheimer's ridden Mother. G & F had to be called out and they shot the bear with a tranquilizer dart before carting it way up into the hills. It had wandered in through an open door in a shop building and then refused to leave willingly; meanwhile old Mildred was wandering around the yard in a daze. Raccoons here are merely "pestiferous" and don't constitute a hazard to life and limb.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
|
|
Yosemite bears can be the worst. They look into cars like a teenager looks in the fridge. Just lookin'. Of course, their just lookin' can(and probably will) cost ya.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Ah, but what is happening in India where those poor Buddhists and Hindus won't even kill anything even in their own defense? They live in mud huts and simply go get more mud and rebuild.
On the other hand, in Aspen or June Lake, they go get Cragman and rebuild. I understand the frustration of needing to repair animal damage: one of my vehicles was mildly damaged by a pair of cows fighting over some food, and I say mildly since it only cost me $250 for my deductible on the comprehensive of my auto insurance. Anything done to a vehicle these days, no matter how small, costs AT LEAST a grand... A cow butt swinging into a wheel well and...voila!...a grand in repairs. Then a bear tearing into an $80,000 mercedes? Woo Hoo! I'd be on the warpath!
"My home is my castle." Anybody heard THAT one before? Bears are no exception; breaking and entering even by an animal isn't permitted at my house.It's easy to be judgmental and forgiving until it happens TO YOU! In the instance of bear breaking windows and tearing up screens at Cragman's house, his response was entirely justified. I woulda' done the same thing.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
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Locker-
I really liked this one'
Bouncing bear breaks trampoline...
Now that's really cool!
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
|
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Nice work. I am not criticizing at ALL, I want you to know, but I'm trying to picture it all in my head, Bear was outside on the deck, trying to get IN, you went outside, and basically cornered the bear right?
I do not mean to flame or enrage anyone, I support you blowing the bears head clean off. Just trying to understand.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
|
|
Alright, let's cut Cragman, whom is wise, a little slack here. Eh?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A community of hairless apes
|
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I'm just playing around, here.
Regarding the who versus whom grammar. But you're not biting.
Take the bait. LOL!
.....
Better:
Let's cut Cragman, who is wise, a little slack here.
.....
EDIT to ADD
Another example:
While some say it was a bad bear who deserved it, others say it was just a poor bear looking for a way out - to whom Cragman gave his all: four in the head and one in the ass.
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apogee
climber
|
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"I do not mean to flame or enrage anyone, I support you blowing the bears head clean off."
Ho!!!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
When i moved to the eastside in 79 , it seemed there were hardly any bear problems..? Now there are numerous ongoing incidents of bear break-ins in mammoth...Incidents where a bear has tried to force it's way into homes as dinner is being cooked and several tug o wars with humans on the other side of the door..I have noticed piles of trash next to dumpsters that the tourons forgot to latch..The hand writing is on the wall..We aren't going to educate the masses or the bear population and the bears are always going to end up on the short end of the shotgun..
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
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Lookit the paw size on that polar bear sucker! Designed to take a head off with one swipe!!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Maybe if more people hazed them with rubber slugs and buckshot,..
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
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Rubber slugs and buckshot? Ron--are you slipping? Nothing beats a Brenneke pointed rifled slug!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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I'm talking about re-educating the bears in situations where they are not as imminent a threat.
Personally, I would short load the tube so that I could load lead in a hurry.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
|
|
Bears have eaten big macs and filet mignon etc - pandora's box is now open. Ignorant to think they'll ever go back to roots and berries. Searles' wallet is the only thing that has benefitted from all this - him becoming a reality TV star.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Searles is making 74G a year on bear patrol...Now figure the bears sleep 5 months out of the year and this seems like a pretty generous stipend coming from a town that is bankrupt...? I like steve and think he does a good job but are the measures he is taking enough to mitigate the property damage by the imprinted bears..?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
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Cragman..Hopping around while the bears sleep? I haven't seen Searles on a pogo stick yet...?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Yeah, Treadwell took teaching bears to enjoy "human food" to an unacceptable level.
I enjoy watching wild animals, but some people who insist on interacting with them just to show how "bush savvy" they are seem quite foolish to me.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
|
|
I was at Glacier Point yesterday, and there was this car that had been left for the weekend by someone off on a backpack. Was food left in the car? A bear thought so.
The ranger said they would tow the car from the parking lot. So sometime today the car owner will return to Glacier Pt. and find his/her car missing. I hope they aren't on a tight schedule to return home from Labor Day weekend in time for work tomorrow...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Part of the game is not only leaving a clean car, but also not leaving any indication to humans that the car will be there for days. Also, park in the middle of the lot.
Some unscrupulous people will park at one end of the lot and then open and drain a can of sardines over a car window at the other end having a cool hood,..
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hatehunters
Sport climber
ca
|
|
I don't believe this bear had to be killed. Looks like the bear got cornered and there were other ways to deal with this. Damn you: people like that eventually WILL get what's coming for them--I hope so. People invade the nature, destroy it and even though the world population is over the top, still bread uncontrollably, like rats/vermin. They are the garbage that needs to be removed, as rather than living sustainably, curbing consumption and population, they continue reproducing and buying and consuming, disfiguring places with their lawns, huge houses and yards.
One can hardly go anywhere in CA without facing some urbanized, overcrowded nightmare. Yeah, bears are the invaders, sure.
Got to love these yuppie scums who move into places near wilderness and kill bears. Then, these animals (they're worse than animals to me, actually) talk about using bear skins--how about someone makes stuff from YOUR skin? Would be whining and calling them cruel and crazy, cause human skin isn't to be used for making stuff, right? Anyone who says to use bear skin, or eat that bear--I'd want to see this done to you and your entire family.
Humans had been killing and harassing bears for a long time. They continue to kill them, including under fake, lame excuses of "being a threat". YOU are the threat. Get the hell out. And btw, breeders, stop popping out that crotch fruit.
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hatehunters
Sport climber
ca
|
|
I wouldn't really bother replying on this board, as this appears to be filled with nature-hating idiots, but I don't own any leather items neither I eat flesh.
Oh yeah, in the past, American Indians were the "invaders": now it's "bears". Time to pay will come.
Bear-killers: the ancient belief says that if you kill one without necessity, the spirit of the bear will hunt you down, eventually--this may mean terminal disease or just a very poor luck down the road. Enjoy, and think twice before using a gun when you don't have to.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
Hypocrite spater said:
Oh yeah, in the past, American Indians were the "invaders": now it's "bears". Time to pay will come.
Bear-killers: the ancient belief says that if you kill one without necessity, the spirit of the bear will hunt you down, eventually--this may mean terminal disease or just a very poor luck down the road. Enjoy, and think twice before using a gun when you don't have to.
After reading this bullshit does anyone feel like running out and killing all the bears they see just out of spite now? I figure this bear got lucky he didn't piss off Piton Ron, who might have done him in and then chased down the entire bear family.
Regardless of what you think, hater, it is what it is. Maybe you can start paying for house repairs in this area the next time some bear goes all civilized. Proving that haters gonna hate, and not do anything constructive but bitch. Unlike Dean, who is now doing constructive things to avoid the next conflict others might have with bears in the area.
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this just in
climber
north fork
|
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Ron he hates natives cause they were hunters.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
If Dean is a sackless pussy then what is a person that posts anonymously?
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apogee
climber
|
|
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
I know you are, but what am I?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
People invade the nature, destroy it and even though the world population is over the top, still bread uncontrollably, like rats/vermin
i think you meant breed. what is most unfortunate is that those people breeding out there take no time to educate their offspring so you end up with a bunch of idiots. seems like you know what i am talking about. too bad your parents didnt figure it out.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Yeah, pretty soon there won't be enough breed to eat!
|
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The reel deel
Boulder climber
Nunya
|
|
I laughed when someone called this guy a "humanitarian"!!!!!
What kind of humanitarian pops 6 caps into a scared black bear???
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
Todays bear breakin/death newz from Colorado.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18834501
The man who shot and killed a bear after he found it eating out of his fridge in Estes Park will not face charges, but official are reminding people to take extra precautions as they visit bear country this season.
On Thursday night, a man who was staying at a cabin in Estes Park with his wife and son returned to the cabin to find a bear eating out of his fridge, said Colorado Division of Parks and Wildlife spokeswoman Jennifer Churchill.
The bear, which entered the home through an open window, turned and began to aggressively approach the man and his family.
The man, whose name is not being released, felt threatened by the bear and shot at it three or four times with a handgun, Churchill said.
When the bear approached the man and his family again, he fired at the bear a second time.
While the man was apologetic and concerned about the bear's death, his actions were justified, Churchill said.
"We want to remind people that our policy is, if a bear enters an occupied dwelling, we have to remove that bear," Churchill said. "It's something we face every year, and we are continuing to pound the drum and let people know they need to lock up their food sources."
As bears approach hibernation, they become more aggressive in finding food, Churchill said.
People can protect and deter bears from their homes by installing round door knobs that are harder for bears to open, leave a talk radio playing when no one is home, bring trash bins in overnight, enclose trash bins with some type of fencing and only use outside bird feeders while bears are hibernating.
More tips on how to protect homes from bears are available on the Colorado Parks and Wildlife website at wildlife.state.co.us.
Jordan Steffen: 303-954-1794 or jsteffen@denverpost.com
My brother was watching someone else's black lab and that dog did the same thing. Opened his fridge and pulled out all the goodies except for a 6 pack of beer he couldn't reach. Middle of the damned night. Good thing my bros an unarmed pacifist. His wife too, although I think she wanted to strangle it at first.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Cragman,
you haven't been vacationing in Colorado have you?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
Yeah, pretty soon there won't be enough breed to eat!
and if there are so many bears killed there wont be enough to bread.
|
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there say, ekat...
as to your quote
A big problem with bird seed is squirrels stockpiling it in the walls of cabins - then the hungry bears come along, smell it and tear the walls off the cabins to get it. . . happened all the time at Tamarack. Scared the living daylights out of the poor guests staying in the particular cabin being ripped apart...
(left out the last tad of it, accidently, ooops)
wow, say, i had never thought about that... makes sense, though...
bears work by smell... and cabins sure could pass for oddly shaped trees, stacked together, ;)
thanks for the share...
squirrels here, too, try to raid any and every kind of bird feeder they can get their little selves aboard.... :))
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Isn't it possible to hang bird feeders high enough off of stout branches that they are bear proof?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
sure you wanna climb that high every time you have to fill it?
sounds like a job for a guy who has solo FA's of desert big walls under his belt....or use a little bit of rope tricks..:)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
OK, new idea.
Ever see an electric horse fence?
|
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squishy
Mountain climber
Sac town
|
|
In Switzerland they have those fences setup just about everywhere..
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Did they know in advance that you were going to visit?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
do those fences keep the breaders out of the breed?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
Hey stinkeye, hatehunters words will be ignored - as they should be.
Dude has 2 post to his name - he's prolly you! Troll Troll Troll...
On a side note I was very saddened this weekend to pick up 20-40 shells left in the woods and find a lot of hunter trash (arrow fletchings, shells, camo poncho cardboard wrapper, etc). IF you're gonna hunt or shoot - clean your sh#t up!!!!! WTF???????
How's beer battered breaded braised bear breast?
kev
|
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
They have yet to breed a bear that will bare its breast to be breaded, beer battered and braised.
|
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
i say,
good shooting!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
Ron,
Bummer...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
I already told Cragman that he is a ST legend, and that some things have a life of their own and giving them 4 in the head and 1 in the ass just makes them live longer.
There will always be a few to try to bother him.
He just needs to learn to bear it.
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|
corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
|
|
Never let the dead animal go to waste.
Imagine the avalanche of positive comments if Crag had had his hibachi cooking next to the dead bear in the picture?
|
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
When i first read about Cragman blasting the bear i thought it was a bit excessive..Rock salt works pretty well on bears but i'm guessing Crag Man had the gun loaded for human intruders..? Cragman has a pretty nice house which he built himself with hard labor and hard earned cash..So having a marauding bear trying to destroy Crag Mans labor and material seems to merit 4 in the head and one in da ass...Just my opinion though..RJ
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Imagine the avalanche of positive comments if he wasn't wearing the scottish plaid pajamas..?
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kennyt
climber
|
|
I can't believe you all are still giving this Tool any attention
|
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Yes.
This could have gone better if he had put the pajamas on the bear, and then posed in jodhpurs and high boots.
|
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Plaid pyjamas? Anyway, what would red riding hood have to say about it all?
Edit: OK, so she'd have to ask Goldilocks what to do.
|
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Mighty...Did not Red Riding Hood have issues with wolves...Just saying...?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Dean-
I'll have my camera ready!
Rodger
|
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Cragman is a man of his word...So he better wear those PJ's to face lift or else the sand pounders will have the last word......
|
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
I don't have a bear problem so I continue feeding my wild turkeys; if a bear appears. it will be the bear who has a rancher problem.
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apogee
climber
|
|
Any plans to discuss local regulations regarding discharging of firearms in residential areas? Jes' wonderin....
|
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
I get to give apogee the last one.
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apogee
climber
|
|
You guys are nothing but a couple of haters.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
No, we're sportsmen out to bag and tag a troll.
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|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
Any plans to discuss local regulations regarding discharging of firearms in residential areas? Jes' wonderin....
i heard its ok to shoot an a$$.
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apogee
climber
|
|
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
Hate!
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apogee
climber
|
|
Hey, look, Ron...
Spartacus!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
As for the mounting directions, Ron. The troll should be looking up from under the bridge with one hand out and upturned.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
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Yeah, as if it likes it.
(at least I can spell Dalton Trumbo,..)
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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WHAT - it's now going to be illegal to feed the trolls?????
Geeze what's the world coming to?
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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My dog got sprayed twice last week by a skunk trying to get in our chicken coop.
The next night we smelled the skunk. My roommate grabbed her .22 ran out back and popped a couple of caps the little critter.
I thought that was pretty bad ass.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Be careful, you can pretty much expect a skunk to have rabies.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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I didn't think of that. I stayed in the house, not wanting to get sprayed.
Can you get rabies from handling a dead skunk?
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Gene
climber
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Locker,
Four in the head and one in the ass® seems very appropriate.
g
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Someone please put a few in my head and ass before this gets to 10,000,000 posts.
Don't we have anything else to talk about?
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kennyt
climber
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"Discharging A firearm within city limits is legal for self protection" Against a Skunk? YOU ARE A F#@%^&% JOKE.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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So you're pro-skunk?
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kennyt
climber
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Yeah, At least when they shoot they are actually in fear of their lives and don't have to take photos and talk about it. Here are my skunks.
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kennyt
climber
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Looks like Locker aint afraid to shoot a few Skunks in or out of city limits.
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apogee
climber
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"Don't we have anything else to talk about? "
Other people do...but Ron & Ron have been using this thread as their little messaging board for the last coupla hundred posts or so. (Hey guys- you could email each other- ever think of that?) It keeps bumping a dead subject back to the top.
Whatever jerks your Glock, I guess.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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750 posts later, and the bear is still 100% dead.
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apogee
climber
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What apogee means, Ron, is...get a room, guys.
Obama has made it safe for man camping these days....
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nice couch.
Hmmm, "COUCHMaster" Grrrr...I'm starting to see how those guys came up with my nickname..Grrrrr. They "said" it was cause I could jump off the couch and climb well, but now I see the sorid truth....
..good lookin sheep BTW......"jus sayin".....and not cause I use to live in Paonia, Colorado before the hippies and pot smokers showed up either. Even Anderson would hit on them I'd bet. LOL
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sorry guys, been out shootin' with the boys.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 21, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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I shot a bear today...Olympus E-5...with 500mm lens.
They are so special.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Happy Boulders
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:29am PT
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Bob D', tht is a fantastic pic
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:32am PT
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da bears
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:43am PT
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"self-protection"? really? you've gone past patriotism now?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:44am PT
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Fort wrote: Why ain't you humping it's dead carcass like cragman?
I like my outcome a lot better.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:48am PT
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Bob D'A TFPU. Very nice shot much better outcome.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:52am PT
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That bear looks like he got into Sprock's brownie stash.
Nice shot even if he was 'set up'. :-)
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Sep 22, 2011 - 01:02am PT
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is it too late to get wired into the facelift?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 22, 2011 - 05:19am PT
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The bear had a bad trip because the dosers neglected to hook him up with any Pink Floyd or Yes Fragile. You'd be bummed too if somebody gave you a heavy dose-burger and didn't do proper follow up with toonage.
LARGE RACOONS ON MY PATIO !!
There were three of them, two quite large, getting into the dog and chicken food container. The two big ones bailed pretty quickly when I started raising a ruckus.
But the third one, the little one, headed straight for me. I almost had to whack him with my big ass broom. You're almost lookin' at pictures of me hunkered down over him in my body motion undies brandishing my large caliber broom.
It was close, very close......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 22, 2011 - 10:41am PT
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It has been a very dry summer here in northern New Mexico which equal little to no food for the bears. Sad to see them get killed for only trying to survive. Here is another shot of the little guy...hope he makes it.
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kennyt
climber
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Sep 22, 2011 - 10:46am PT
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Cragman is still sticking to the story that he's done a great service for June Lake and its homeowners. Kill all the bears problem solved.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
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locker, my new hero.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Sep 22, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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"Gesunthiet: lets be clear here, you are the dooshbag. I've seen teh rangers kill the bears in Yos, and the dooshes are those idiots who feed them, not the rangers who have to kill the bears later."
Sweet argument; compare bears and rangers in Yosemite (with 3.4 to 3.9 million visitors per year) to an idiot with a gun and a bear in June lake with a population of around 350 people.
I agree with you in part though, the people who feed bears should be fined and rangers have to remove bears in Yosemite valley.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 22, 2011 - 03:52pm PT
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mistook the grizz for a black.
That'd be a pretty shitty "guide" then. Aside from being furry mammals, black and brown bears look nothing alike.
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kennyt
climber
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Sep 23, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
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kennyt
climber
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Sep 25, 2011 - 12:19am PT
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In english please.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Sep 25, 2011 - 12:21am PT
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pts is cured by weed, this just in...
well doh!
ho many freaks?
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kennyt
climber
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Sep 25, 2011 - 12:34am PT
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that clears things up
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Sep 25, 2011 - 02:22am PT
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Hey guys, give Cragman credit for shooting a bear instead of a neighbor !
From Today's NY Times:
In Bear Attack, Hunter Killed Hunter, Autopsy Shows
By Jim Robbins
It turns out that the hunter in Idaho who the authorities thought was killed by a wounded grizzly bear was actually shot by his young hunting companion, who was trying to kill the bear, an autopsy has revealed.
Steve Stevenson, 39, died on Sept. 16 when he was shot in the chest once by his 20-year-old hunting companion, Ty Bell, officials said. The two men, both from Winnemucca, Nev., were tracking a grizzly bear they had wounded in rugged country on the Idaho-Montana border, thinking it was a black bear, the surviving hunter said.
After they shot it, they waited for a short time for the bear to die, and then went into thick forest to find it, the survivor said.
As the two men looked for the 400-pound bear, it charged them, and both hunters raised their rifles as it came toward them, Mr. Bell recounted. “They both shot it, and it kept coming,” Mr. Stevenson’s mother, Janet Price, told the Associated Press.
Mr. Stevenson, a miner, called out to divert the bear from attacking Mr. Bell, and it turned toward him instead, Mr. Bell has said. As the bear mauled Mr. Stevenson, Mr. Bell recounted, he shot it several more times and killed it.
One of those shots, however, also hit Mr. Stevenson in the chest and killed him, according to a medical examiner at the Montana State Crime Lab. In addition to the gunshot, there were bite marks on Mr. Stevenson’s leg.
The shooting of Mr. Stevenson remains under investigation by the Lincoln County attorney, and the killing of the grizzly bear, an endangered species, is still under investigation by the federal authorities.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 25, 2011 - 07:42am PT
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Proves beyond any doubt that no one should own guns except for me. People are just so effin bad at muzzle control these days.....
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Sep 25, 2011 - 11:46am PT
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these frikkin cali bears are all decended from relocated yos bears.
people food is in their brain, they like it.
I PISS OUTSIDE ON MY HOUSE!
the bears were here first. ive lived in tahoe for forty years with no problems,
I PISS OUTSIDE!
all around me people are all these rich people with bear problems.
I URINATE ALL OVER THE YARD!
I DUMP MY PISS BOTTLE FROM THE VAN ON MY GARBAGE CANS.
THE SOLUTION IS INSIDE OF YOU, IF YOU HAVE BEAR PROBLEMS AND YOUR
USING A TOILET TO URINATE INTO, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
EDIT: some bears just have to go.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 25, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
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the rich scumbags that kill them for looking for food.
grammar to match the wisdom
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Sep 25, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
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Elcap,,, Its nearly impossible to tell the diff from a black bear and a grizz at ANY distance. "black" bears come in all colors including that of your average grizzly. Grizz are an inland version of brown bears. "
Spoken like a true city kid. I can't tell the difference between a 4Runner and a Xterra from ANY distance either. But that doesn't mean that there isn't any way to do so. I'm just an idiot.
The moral of the story kids, is that people don't get along with nature. The more out of touch people get with it, the more it will suffer.
There are bears all over where I live, a grizz just wandered downtown this past weekend. But the people here are different, so the bear lived and moved on by itself. I lived in California for years, and I understand the city folk and why they think like they do, and why you have no grizzlies, and little bratty black bears. You brought it upon yourselves due to ignorance.
But it won't change because your values won't change. So blast away until you have killed the last black (edit 4 ron) bear as well! In a few years you will be saying the same thing about the last deer, oh, they attack people and dogs with their hoofs, blah blah blah.
Just don't come up here and ruin our wilderness too.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 25, 2011 - 01:17pm PT
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800 posts!
Impressive.
Or something like that.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 25, 2011 - 01:23pm PT
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So blast away until you have killed the last brown bear as well!
Wow! How did tooth post this from a century ago?
Just had to point out a common error made by "city folk".
My feelings (which matter not) are that we'd be better off if the California browns had not been extirpated, but you are unlikely to see them reintroduced.
But nature will have her revenge in the end when human population crashes as a result of our hubris and folly.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 25, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
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When I hiked the PCT years ago, there was a guy on the trail who heard that mothballs would keep the bears away. For the life of me, I couldn't understand how those tiny testes would keep an ursine intruder at bay.
Anyway, the guy eventually bailed on the trail and said that his food boxes at resupplies were up for grabs- everything reeked of mothballs. I tried eating the granola, but wound up burping mothballs all day long. (hmm. That sounds a little strange.)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 25, 2011 - 08:49pm PT
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Easy for YOU to say. You already HAVE the snappy outfit.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Sep 25, 2011 - 09:01pm PT
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not overly happy to see hunters killed by bears, but one can't claim hunting is a sport unless it is at least occasionally sporting
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Where are you bound?
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Sep 25, 2011 - 09:04pm PT
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Or 'sporty', anyway.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 25, 2011 - 09:13pm PT
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Hope you got rid of the smell first.
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Sep 25, 2011 - 09:21pm PT
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Hmmmmmm. Calling me out for holding a bird (which flew away) by a guy who does what to bears?
My point is that just the fact that bears could harm you is too often enough to justify killing one. And we are so used to populations diminishing that when they stabilize or grow or rebound we figure it is time to start shooting them again. It makes sense and is used as a great argument until we think about it.
Ive been lucky enough to see half a dozen moose, plus wolves, foxes, bears, hundreds of deer and some other stuff in the past few weeks in the bush. I think if there were too many their food would disappear and they would starve, have fewer offspring and automatically control their population, no?
Do bears really get enough food from Cragman's house etc. to support themselves for more than a day? No. But if we as a society don't want to clean up and protect the bear food around our homes we will have to continue to shoot them when they are successful in accessing that food - because they won't quit eating.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Oct 19, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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Cragman! gnarly real life story that few of us can really relate to.
Climbed with Doug Englekirk in soyo last weekend and he related this story so I had to check it out. Wow! Glad you came out on top of this experience.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Oct 19, 2011 - 05:03pm PT
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I know, dude can barely climb...
I put up with him though 'cause he's short and a nice guy.
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laughingman
Mountain climber
Seattle WA
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Jan 20, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
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40 S&W killed the bear, wow...
Hopefully you have stopped shaking by now...
Don't feed the bears people, stuff like this happens as a result....
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kennyt
climber
California
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Jan 21, 2012 - 12:21am PT
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Pleas, don't start the it was him or us thing again
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Aug 29, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
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GREAT FALLS, Mont. – A Montana rancher shot and killed a black bear that
scaled a tall fence and broke into his house to rummage for food this week
along the Rocky Mountain Front.
..dispatched the bear with a rifle.
His government supplied anti-grizzly bear electric fence that encloses the
yard was turned off due to severe fire conditions in the area -one
tumbleweed blown against the fence and you've got a wild fire. His kids
were at a relatives house probably because they were not safe from bears
without its protection.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/29/montana-rancher-shoots-black-bear-that-broke-into-home/
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Aug 29, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
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Bears on the rampage! Run for your life.
http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-woman-survives-bear-attack-in-paxson-20120827,0,6765288.story
GRIZZLY BEAR ATTACKS COLLEGE STUDENT drags her before manages to escape.
Doctors are working to reconstruct her hand.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/270135/81/Grizzly-bear-kills-hiker-in-Denali-National-Park
Aur 25 2012 Grizzly bear kills then eats hiker in Denali NP
Bear was shot from a helicopter Saturday afternoon next to the mans body.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/07/grizzly-bear-kills-hiker-in-yellowstone-national-park.html
http://www.blackbearheaven.com/grizzly-bear-kills-campers.htm
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-05-31/news/27065858_1_grizzly-hiker-park-rangers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/7841850/Bear-kills-hiker-in-Yellowstone-National-Park-hours-after-it-was-trapped-and-tranquilised.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/08/fatal-bear-attack-in-yellowstone-second-one-this-year.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,283834,00.html
Utah Boy Dragged From Tent, Killed By Black Bear During Camping Trip
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705371952/Judge-awards-195-million-to-family-of-boy-killed-by-bear-in-American-Fork-Canyon.html?pg=all
Judge awards $1.95 million to family of boy killed by bear in American Fork Canyon Utah
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8021101/Woman-fends-of-bear-attack-with-courgette.html
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=6302040
Kern County California 2008 : I found myself down on the ground. I heard, 'Chomp, chomp, chomp.' I felt teeth go through my skull. I felt it bite through my eye.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUeQTcbfss0&feature=related
grizzly charges at fishermen on shore then takes their salmon
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 29, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
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All that would do is piss it off BAD! Then you have a rogue bear running around to deal with.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 29, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
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hey there say, corniss chopper,
i remember reading that article about the denai park man, ...
the warnings were hopefully to have given him a chance...
sadly, though, campers have no warnings, :(
bears are not fun, :(
thanks for sharing for warnings to us all...
i know a few folks in montana, and such places...
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 29, 2012 - 06:43pm PT
|
Cragman, trying to get a hold you, send me an email.
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~kief~
Trad climber
state of Awakening
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Aug 29, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
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wish i coulda missed this thread second time around.
ONE warning shot,and the bear would have bolted.
many people that CAN LIVE with bears keep firecrackers handy.
cragman,you say it kills you to have to shoot it,
Just the fact you have to post about it,then stand proudly over the
poor creature with gun in hand,tells me otherwise.
shot in the driveway,.....trying to run away.SAD
bear was never IN your house.
Steve searles would have handled it differently.
last summer in Tahoe,near the time this happened,a second home-owner
chased a bear off his deck,the bear climbed up a tree,that was not enough
for him,he went in got his gun and shot her out of the tree...dead
what was even more sad is she had a cub,who wondered around for days
crying,not sure what happened to the cub.
and sadly the Tahoe DA decided not to press charges on the homeowner.
shooting a bear out of a tree,in self defense....really?
YOU,WE,anyone in the mountains are in the bears land.
what have you done since this incident to help educate people
and LIVE WITH bears?
or,are there no problems..my gun cant fix?
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 29, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
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kief,
i agree with what "thaDood" (since i know him rather well, lol) had to say about the matter, some of it in the heat of things, but, something to reflect on! But, what he didn't get the chance to say, and would like to now add (or so he has suggested, lol) is...how would you have acted under the situation knowing that it cud a been yer seven year old daughter who had encountered him (mr. bear) instead of you. And, if we are to believe what Dean said (and i do) that the bear had attempted to break into his neighbors house the day before and perhaps 10-12 other places recently, how would have you reacted? (particularly in the light of having young children present)!!
I am not attempting to reopen or bring new light to the conversation, it is just something I had thought about and hadn't brought up (maybe someone else has?)!!
I do feel for the bear (sure in fuc.k did not shed any tears, nor did i weep over bambi as a kid). And I still feel as though there was some disrespect in the follow up banter. Like i already said, it was only doing what it had been trained to do by its mother. And that was secondary to the whole damned bear situation and people either feeding them and leaving trash out, etc.! Like I said previously, I lived in mammoth from '74-84 and frequented it regularly for 10 years after and never saw one damn bear in those 20+ years. Things have definitely changed! Why? Answer = Negligent people!! And the bears are the ones that suffer...sigh!
edit: here in San Diego back a couple decades or so (around the time it was declared "America's Finest City", lol) we started getting a huge influx of homeless peeps, mostly lifetime derelicts & winos, etc, (not judging them, that simply was the case, they did not want any intervention). Anyway, authorities started inquiring why and how they decided on SD and the predominant answer was that their city offered them a oneway ticket to sunny California & highlighted the fact that it was "America's Finest City"! If ya don't believe me, check it out for yerself. Major influx of homeless from all over the nation that got the same idea! Florida (Miami) was one of the first!!
Anyway, why not round up all the bears and give them a one-way-ticket to Aspen, Incline Village, or Sun Valley, etc! Midnight delivery. Just sayin...!
EDIT: (edit/edit)...
@ms55401, next time ya hear a racket and suspect it is a bear attempting to break into yer house, just send down yer 7y.o. daughter and tell her to shoo it away. Give her a firecracker like someone suggested, that should do the trick, eh? lol
@Apogee, maybe i missed something, but, what the hell has this got to do with the "liberals"? It was prollie all types of people feeding the bears or leaving food/garbage out in dumpsters, etc.! i had friends who use to dumpster dive a couple times a week (during hard times) at the local/Mammoth Vons dumpster! Good food, just one day after it expired, nothing really wrong with it, just couldn't be sold!! Problem was, the bears arrived and sooner or later followed suit!
Like i said previously, i have a lot of sympathy for the bears, had a lot of encounters with them during my years in Yose, TM and elsewhere. "Shooed" them away countless times, sometimes resorted to chasing them up trees, etc! They never turned on me or displayed any inclinations to do so. I am not talking about one or two times, I am talking about dozens. I was careful not to corner one though, they prollie would have the instinct to defend themselves in such a situation. I don't believe i would have shot the bear, but, i wasn't there. And i don't have a seven year old daughter.**
~~ **And i wud not like to find out what wuda happened to her had she cornered it (as in Deans situation) firecracker, or no firecracker...just sayin! So cut him ("cragster") a little slack!!
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Aug 29, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
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what I really liked was how cragster blamed the hippy-dipshit locals for the bear's death
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
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Aug 29, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
|
Yes, all that is bad in the world is the fault of the liberals.
Except Romney. That one's alllll about the Repugs.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:06pm PT
|
A bear breaks into your house and you don't shoot it?
IDIOT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
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Aug 30, 2012 - 12:33am PT
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Pulling into my parking spot , i encountered a good sized bear loitering around my other vehicle...Thinking that it may have been the bear that tore the door off my honda , i set off after it , lobbing fist sized river rock at it....Just when i thought i had the upper hand , one of the rocks came whizzing back at me....next time it's jammies and the Beretta...RJ
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moresnowplease
Sport climber
MAmmoth Lakes, CA
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Aug 30, 2012 - 12:57am PT
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Gnarly.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:22am PT
|
A starving cougar that walked into the home of a [Trail, B.C.] woman and attacked her while she sat in her living room is now dead.
"The woman was in her house with a number of puppies when the cougar walked in through an open door and attacked her on the sofa," Trail RCMP Sgt. Rob Hawton said of the weekend incident.
With the help of her dog, the woman fought the cougar off and chased it out of the house. She received a couple of minor injuries to her upper leg from the cougar's claws.
The cougar was gone by the time police arrived.
But the animal was tracked down and destroyed Monday.
Hawton said the cougar was gone before officers arrived and a subsequent search was not successful. B.C. Conservation officers were called in and the cougar was tracked and destroyed.
"This is an extremely rare occurrence and was driven by the animal's desperation for food," Hawton said.
The cougar is believed to have been too weak from starvation to hunt normally. Earlier this month, the president of the Trail Wildlife Association, Terry Hanik, raised the alarm of a rise in predators in the region.
Hanik said cougars and wolves were pushing into the area, adding their numbers to the huge number of coyotes already plaguing the back country and eroding the deer population, forcing predators to look into more settled areas where deer have been thriving for years.
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Authorities+track+kill+cougar+that+attacked+woman+home/7159772/story.html
I saw the woman who was attacked on TV, and she apparently wasn't wearing plaid pajamas when the cougar arrived.
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:35am PT
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I live not far from Jim Brennan in Deep Cove, North Vancouver and bears come down from the hills in late summer.There is a corridor between our house and our neighbors that seems to be used by the same large black bear every year.He never seems do anything more than pass through. Our street backs on to the mountain and nobody leaves garbage out. On garbage day everyone keeps it in the garage until an hour before pick up and it seems to work as there have been no problems on our street with the bears at all.
I agree that a fed bear is a dead bear but I also believe bears are individuals just like we are, some are timid,some are fearless and some are down right nasty like the grizzly that killed Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend in Alaska.That bear was aloof and never really excepted TT like the other bears did. When you see the video of this bear long before the killing he looks shifty.
Glad no one was hurt and sadness about the bear. I would of done the same but since I don't have a gun I would of used my shalalie.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:37am PT
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Anders-
I'll bet that she didn't have a Beretta, either!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 30, 2012 - 09:21am PT
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another grizzle story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2195077/Julia-Stafford-survives-bear-attack.html
A Seattle woman was attacked and dragged 20 feet by a grizzly bear while working for a Canadian mining company in Alaska - but survived with minor only injuries.
Julia Stafford, 20, a University of British Columbia student, smartly played dead after the bear knocked her - and a male colleague - over and on to the ground.
'It bit my hand and kind of dragged me 20 feet over the rocks and just left me,' Stafford told The Fairbanks Daily News-Miner from her hospital bed while ironically holding - you guessed it - a teddy bear.
'I was worried I was going to die briefly, but it was fine once she let me go and ran away...It happened really quick.'
The hair-raising encounter reportedly occurred about 1:30 p.m. Sunday afternoon - just two days after another grizzly bear ate a hiker in Denali National Park and Preserve.
Dangerous Encounter: Stafford was reportedly dragged some 20 feet by the beast after it knocked her over - and then just as suddenly meandered away
It happened when Stafford and Kerry - his last name was not available - were collecting rock samples in the rain near a foggy ravine for Pure Nickel Inc., a Canadian company.
'The bear sort of walked out of the fog and it had two cubs with it,' Stafford told the News-Miner.
'We started walking uphill to get away from it and it started walking toward us.
'We stopped once we saw it was following us and tried to get the bear spray out but by then it was already running toward us.
Striking Twice: The attack on Stafford and her colleague came only two days after hiker Richard White of San Diego was eaten by a bear in Denali National Park and Preserve
Striking Twice: The attack on Stafford and her colleague came only two days after hiker Richard White of San Diego was eaten by a bear in Denali National Park and Preserve
'I was wearing gloves and they were wet and it was confusing,' she reportedly added. 'There was just not enough time to get the bear spray out.'
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