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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 3, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
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I have a # 4.
If I can only buy one other, should I get the #5 or the #6?
On the specs it looks like the #4 extreme measurement is the #6 starting measurement...? So I was thinking the # 6 would be the right choice. They are pricey and I'm broke.
Thanks!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Old style big green Camalots are on ebay all the time occasionally for less than $75. Seems like the best deal out there for fat pro.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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What do you want to climb with it?
I'd probably go with the 6. Your friends will be more apt to have a five, and in the long run it'll bug you more to have a gap that you'll eventually fill than it will to get one bigger one, which you'll be more likely to rationalize talking yourself out of buying.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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I've got both and I'd say the #5 gets used 15-20 times for every one time the #6 gets used. But when you need the 6 you need the 6!
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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My knee is a perfect #5 camalot size. So I've rarely ever needed one. In fact, I've never owned one and never needed too.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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Especially if your #4 is the new style (smaller), you'll use the #5 way more, unless you are an OW hound, in which case you'd already have a #6.
#6 is pretty unstable when left below for pro- often ends up uselessly (terrifyingly) cockeyed.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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The #6 Friend has a broad base. The Camalot is Narrower.
It works, kinda. I guess.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Which brings up cap/skully's point, the #6 Friend is WAY
more stable! Though i think they aren't making them right now
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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#6 is pretty unstable when left below for pro- often ends up uselessly (terrifyingly) cockeyed.
That's where the Friends come in...
Get a #6 Friend. You can always bludgeon someone with it....
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2011 - 12:17am PT
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So I hear the #6 Friend is the way to go...
uh oh...just saw this in archives...
caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
Apr 5, 2007 - 02:59pm PT
not the exact answer you're looking for... but I assume you have a #5 size already? It gets used about 10x as much for me as the 6 (owing to cowardice.)
Anyway, and take this with a grain of salt as my experience with both is very limited, but I like the double axle on the bd. I was pushing up a #6 friend once, and one side of lobes flopped to one side, and the other flopped to the other. weird, and a pain in the ass to fix while stuffed in there.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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The original DogKiller. Then there's Those Valley Giants.
Homan. Elk Huntin'.
I dunno, Slater. Are they the same edition Camalot? I gotta older #5, which is latest #6 size. I don't like it much.
I'm a Friend guy, anyway.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2011 - 12:24am PT
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Big Bro equivalent???
Which is better?
As you can see I hate wide... but you gotta have it when you need it.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Big Bros are solid, if you can seat 'em. Craig was badass with those things. But I guess he would be, huh?
That'd be a #2, I reckon.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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For the bigger cams, WC is hands-down the leader.
And I agree, I use the #5 WC way more than the #6.
But then again, I tend to stay far away from leads that require #6's. For two reasons. First, I hate lugging that thing around.
Consider a Gypsy?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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If my partner had a Gypsy and we lacked Wide gear, I'd take it.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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So... since the subject of the #6 WC Tech Friend has come up, does anyone have any idea where I could find a new one? I know that they stopped making the #5 and #6 a while ago, but I was able to buy a #5 at Mountain Gear last week. (As of today, there are no longer any #5s available at Mtn, Gear, so I think I got their last one). I am hoping that there is some shop out there that still has a #6 in stock. I would really appreciate any input regarding where I might find a new #6.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2011 - 01:45am PT
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How would a 2x4 with a hole in the middle with some 7mm cord with a knot and loop work out do ya think? or is that just crazy talk?
I mainly want it for one route I'm looking at... gotta do the wide to get to the good stuff! I ran it out last time but it'd be nice to have something in if I fell.
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ruppell
climber
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Not crazy at all. Any thing that makes the crack "smaller" for the size of the cam will work. The key is keeping them attached to the cam(ie wire). 2X4 or 2X6 will work. Just look at them as you would placing them to make sure the cam will do the job. To low cam slips to high cam never catches.
As always seek proper instruction if you wish to climb. Yada Yada Yada.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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In their wisdom BD rebranded the larger size cams; 3.5's were renamed 4's, 4.5's-5's etc.
A climbing partner of mine has a grey cam that sez "3.5" on one side, and "4" on the other.
All I can think is that they wanted to increase revenue by selling new sets.
I've got all kinds; old black u-stem 4's , purple 4's and 3.5's (new fours) they all have their uses . I've got three old fives, that I use all the time and 2 4.5's (new 5's) that I find to be very useful. I have two WC 6's of different generations ( see Scuffy's breakdown on this here or on widefetish) suffice to say try to get the ones with the wide trigger bars as the small bars suck donkey balls.
I climb a lot of wide, and though I own a set of bigbro's I haven't placed one in years, though I tried, this spring. VG's are much more versatile.
I also have Yates and wired bliss big cams that I bring out as needed.
Hope that helps.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I use the #5 sized one more, mainly just because I am more likely to actually hike it in and carry it up the climb.
Yea, the WC are way better in the big sizes.
Big Bros are fine. They are lighter and less bulky for the size of protection and I have not [usually] found it a struggle to get a good placement. It can be a pain to try and climb past them (make sure you "mantle" and step on the correct side for the C1 move). Most climbers never use them enough to get proficient with them.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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#6, unless you are planning on doing a bunch of bat-hang roof cracks in which case get the #5. I REALLY like the old 4.5s and have used mine way more than my 6 friends or oldstyle green #5 camalots...in fact I traded my old big green camalot for a second #4.5.
6 Friend is better for pro and more stable, #6 camalot is better for walking up or "perpetual TR".
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Facing this dilemma myself, and not feeling like asking Zander to borrow his stuff yet again, I bought a #6. But my most frequent adventure partner already had the #5 which made my decision easier.
After flailing on Hourglass Right, I admitted to myself that I need to get a BigBro or two. Haven't done it yet.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Tom,
Is your wide situation parallel sided? Shallow water groove? I've been wanting to make a wood wedge for certain ideal situations in the backwoods we love.
If I had the time, I'd go climb it w/you and bring some Big Bros and an old large and heavy HB (I think) cam, that's bigger than a #4 camalot.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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The WC #6 was the best cam - like a decade ago at this point - compared to the pre C4 #5 Camalot. Compared to the current C4 #6, the WC #6 is a piece of crap. The WC #6's lobes will invert. Hope you don't fall while you are in the middle of unfuking it, as it's often your only piece for a long ways. It's also a heavier, bulkier cam. The C4 #6 works better. It has a larger range, doesn't collapse sideways as easily as the older #5, and it's roughly 1 whole millimeter wider...
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2011 - 05:23pm PT
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Nate, let's do it.
I'll bring some wood and give it a go.
Get a day and let me know!
Welcome back from camp. Hope it was rad.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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hmmm... not my experience. While the the BD does have a wider range, it does so because it goes smaller. It does not protect quite as large a crack. the difference seem negligible head to head but is immense, in the field.
Also the BD head is much narrower, making it much more likely to twist. Which has been my experience. I have never had a WC 6 twist.
The finish on the BDs is nicer, and the full pivot nature of the WC throws some people off.
I used new #6 BD extensively this spring and can get them prodeal, and haven't because I find the WC's still to be just better all-around cams, (and I already have 2). Both brands can get stuck, but the extra width of the WC makes it much easier to manipulate the cams by hand.
No choice, really. Except that they have temporarily ( they claim) stopped making the the WC #6.
I don't especially care for the smaller trigger version of the WC 6's but even those I prefer over the BD #6's.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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You're pretty much a pussy unless you climb like this.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Looks like a Solid belay to me....
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Might be a Solid belay, but it looks to me like someone was too lazy to carry in a Valley Giant. But it is a good illustration of why some Big Bros are nice...
And I have stacked large cams against blocks of wood.
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Camahoo
Trad climber
Shaver Springs
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I'm just say'en stack'en cams is way better than f'en button head bolts.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
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I have stacked large cams against blocks of wood.
You bring up pieces of wood?!
Do you sling that? or does it go on your harness?
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2011 - 01:06am PT
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I have a new hero
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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I use a #5 fairly often. #6 almost never.
but then I run and hide from the wide.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I have stacked large cams against blocks of wood.
You bring up pieces of wood?!
Do you sling that? or does it go on your harness?
I have small blocks of wood that I drill as many holes in it (to lighten it) as I think I can and still have it be safe. Yea, it gets slung like everything else and hangs out on the harness/lead rack (for appropriate leads).
Primary use has been when aiding or trying to get toprope protection for a hard/nasty spot.
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