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Messages 1 - 227 of total 227 in this topic
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 29, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
i hope that justice is served to those cops who did that. pathetic.
Chris2

Trad climber
Jul 29, 2011 - 10:14pm PT
I hope the guy pulls out of his coma. Sad...
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jul 29, 2011 - 10:16pm PT
That's not tooled,
That's murdered.

So sorry for his family .
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Jul 29, 2011 - 10:17pm PT
I spent my youth in Fullerton the TOOLS, PIGS in my day would arrest me skateboarding at the V on Euclid a great place skaters from all over would tear this place up, my best friend and I were slapped around by these tool more than once, I remember once my friends board was broken by them. It looks to me that the tools just kept getting more aggresive in the last 35 years, real sad news may that burn in hell!
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 29, 2011 - 10:20pm PT
A few days after they took him off life support. He passed away that night. Five of the cops are still on active duty; the sixth is on medical leave. A travesty of the highest degree.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 29, 2011 - 10:40pm PT
The cops "feared for their lives".

All six of them. Terrified by one skinny, crazy guy.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Jul 30, 2011 - 12:29am PT
Yet more cops killing citizens of the United States.

When are we going to put the police departments of America in check?
When are the citizens going to have the power to say which cops get paid and which ones get a trip to jail?

Just as in all of society, there are good people, and bad people. So too goes it for cops; there are good ones and there are bad ones.

If cops had to answer to the citizens that they police, I think they may take a different stance on the application of deadly force.


But that's just another left leaning, socialist thinking out loud. Please, pay no attention to the police, continue to pay them what ever they want, after all you feel secure in your community.. don't you?
Cpt0bvi0u5

Trad climber
Merced CA
Jul 30, 2011 - 12:36am PT
F*#k the police.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:02am PT
The cops got pissed when the guy belted one of them.

It didn't matter what he looked like, or who he was, because he wasn't wearing a uniform and a badge.

The cops beat him to death because they were angry at him for popping one of them, not because he posed any kind of threat ( or because of what he looked like ).

These cops need to go down for second degree murder.
Mark Not-circlehead

climber
Martinez, CA
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:12am PT
F**king cops. Good reason right there for a riot.


F88king murderous pigs. Anyone who even wants to be a cop has power & insecurity issues.

Six against 1 ..........Why isn't his on every news channel??


Oh, no riot..........guess because he's white.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
SoCal
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:41am PT
In defense of police: Most are good.

Like the rest of humanity a few might not be so good.


Those above who seem to viciously hate all police. I certainly hope you never need help from one.
Mark Not-circlehead

climber
Martinez, CA
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:52am PT
I would generally agree that not all cops are bad.

Problem I have here is six out of six responding officers either participated or condoned the activity (by not protesting the actions of their colleagues I see it as condoning. )

Six out of six is 100% of the responding Fullerton PD officers.
apogee

climber
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:09am PT
Riley, that's bullsh#t.

Most cops are good. And there's a few as#@&%es out there. Kinda like life.

You've obviously got cop issues.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:14am PT
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:16am PT
6 against 1 and he was 135 lbs.

Edit: FBI is investigating. http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/07/30/nbc-reports-on-police-scuffle-possibly-related-to-death-of-homeless-man/
tooth

Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
Jul 30, 2011 - 08:53am PT
crickets from Fatty....

this is exactly what I would expect from him based on what he says on this forum all the time. Was he one of the 6?
D.Eubanks

climber
Jul 30, 2011 - 09:29am PT
This is exactly why some cops lose their lives.

Sometimes they don't even ask questions, they just beat you to the ground.
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:03am PT
Yikes! Wonder what would happen if a citizen did THAT to a cop!? That kinda schitz gotta stop and the only way it can is if the cops get treated and charged with the same crime anyone else would......MURDER in the 1st, premeditated....life or death penalty! You can't go around and beat the schitz outa someone, then say JUSTIFIED!!!
No peace on this one!


http://www.cityoffullerton.com/depts/police/complaints/citizen_complaints.asp









James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:23am PT
"Those above who seem to viciously hate all police. I certainly hope you never need help from one"

When seconds count the police are minutes away.
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:25am PT
Certainly NOT that kinda help! Not saying I hate police, but when you are "trained" to handle "certain situations" and are suppose to "protect and serve" this is uncalled for and should be handled with at the very least some dismissals and criminal charges. I would certainly hope you don't condone the behavior and treatment in this isolated case!
Peace
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:36am PT
I assume you are referring to the poster I quoted because I think these cops should be in prison or Rokjoxed.
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:39am PT
Sorry James, just sounded like you agreed with this incidence... Rokjox might be on the other extreme, but I would agree whole hearty, the police need policing when this happens.
Peace
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:43am PT
No, I was saying that you can't count on cops to be there when the sh#t is hitting the fan. They are reactionary not preventative. I was quoting another poster and don't know how to use the ST quote function.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:52am PT
There is obviously something wrong with the selection and training process if psychos like this keep beating the testing.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 11:54am PT
All we need here is an Az. drivers' liscense. (for a CCW)
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 30, 2011 - 12:25pm PT
They should be charged with second degree homicide.

No special deals. Let the chips fall where they may, but let them do their time in isolation.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 12:33pm PT
His father was a cop to. Maybe giving him "tough love". The whole thing makes me f*#king sick. I chose not to watch the video for the benefit of my spirit.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
No isolation, either, right in with the sharks.
Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Jul 30, 2011 - 12:56pm PT
It may get a lot worse. Look at all of the cities that will soon be declaring bankruptcy because of their crushing pension obligations. Most of these pensions go to cops and firemen - many of whom retire at around age 50 with inflated pensions (thanks to spiking) with escalators and full health care. And then some go and double or triple dip in some other govt job. What do you think will happen if we try to rein in these pensions? And Fullerton can now add a multi-million dollar settlement to its budget that its taxpayers will have to fund. And the rest of us CA taxpayers can pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost to incarcerate these a-hole cops (for many years if this kid's family gets justice). Or maybe they will just start collecting their FPD pensions early.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
I think of ny Niece and Nephew ( 10 and 12 ). When they're my age, how long do you think they're going to put up with seeing 80% of their tax dollars going to pay the pensions of people who haven't worked in years, instead of going toward financing the services society needs?
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:41pm PT
All politics aside for once, this comes down to six f*#king pussies beating a little dude to death. A team of supposedly trained guys should be able to control one unarmed person no matter how crazy strong the person is without killing them. Anything else is unsatisfactory for the job.

edit: There are exceptional cases where the combo of size/skill and crazy/drugs makes one person a handfull for six guys. But with the addtl. less lethal options the cops have I am not buying it here.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
I have no details of that incident. Does that approach this in heinousness? I am really asking.
I am not jumping on the all cops are bad train because I know personally otherwise. Again, I think this is more basic, six on one gang mentality bullsh#t.
reddirt

climber
PNW
Jul 30, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
Why does a father let his son live on the streets?
That's just plain murder.
They better be put on trail!!!

Schizophrenia can be excruciatingly difficult & complex to manage... socially, medically, logistically, & in a zillion other ways I cannot even begin to comprehend or second guess.

Let it be noted that the father was also a cop... (retired Orange County sheriff’s deputy)

In Seattle an SPD officer shot a partially deaf alcoholic native American wood carver for not dropping his "weapon" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1VKo6-m27c. Too many other stories like this pending DOJ investigations (too many stories NOT pending DOJ investigations).

(WA state patrol, however are an entirely different story... they have a rep for being pleasant & polite & even won some Nat'l award for busting the most DUI's or something like that.... but I digress)

ps- the wood carver was not facing the cop probably because he was partially deaf. The knife was closed.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
Riley probably deleted his posts because he wants to go back to Yosemite and he realizes how vindictive the "blue wall" can be.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
I thought it was a green-gray wall.

Some real cops I know just kind of roll their eyes when you talk about NPS LEOs.


Giant shrimp, anyone?
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
Just using blue wall as a catch all phrase for that mentality.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
If that kid had been black, Fullerton would be burning right now.

OC born and raised.

If that kid had been Black he wouldn't have been in Fullerton at all.

I'm guessing there's a real lack of OC community reaction to this...as long as it's not on MY lawn...
Dirka

Trad climber
SF
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
Tragic. RIP.
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
Jul 30, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
It is nearly impossible to keep some schizophrenics confined, they need to roam and will repeatedly break away and out from wherever they are being kept. You cannot blame the parents for not keeping him home, it is an impossible task as is trying to force him to take medication.

I am appalled by the beating of this young man, this went too far. Justice must be served and I hope it does. Unfortunately, no amount of justice will ever take away the hurt this family must feel knowing what their son has and went through.

Personally, I've lost trust in the police years ago, logically I know they are not, "all" bad but I hate to think what if I would have to deal with one of the, "bad" apples!
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:05pm PT
Fatrad,
I would agree you were justified as long as they were attempting to present the weapon on you.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
And obviously I am assuming a look alike type weapon was involved in your situations.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
So you would be commended for utilizing sound threat discrimination skills by not engaging.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:24pm PT
Listening to that video and hearing the guy crying out for help - "Dad! Dad!" - has me in tears again now. I am so sorry for the family and loved ones of this guy, to lose him in such a horrible way.

As for the animals that did this to him, I don't think there can possibly be any reasonable explanation. But ranting away about that, when the friends and family are in grief seems callow. I wish them the strength to carry through in the process of loss and dealing with the ordeal that is yet to come.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
Happiegirl,
I knew it would do that to me also. My own imagination is bad enough.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:41pm PT
Obviously, There is no reason for this type of brutality.
Hopefully, those responsible will be held accountable for their actions.

The police deal with many situations they would not have to if they had not sworn to protect and serve the community. Next time you NEED a cop, please keep this in mind.
ALL of the police officers I know are good people.

In 1991 my girlfriend went to a tanning salon in Burbank, as she entered a "homeless" man sitting in front of the business mumbled something to her.
A couple of minutes later the man entered the salon and asked the 23 year old receptionist "where's the lady, where's the lady" he then pulled out a handgun and shot the young woman numerous times killing her.
He left the scene and walked a block away where he sat down and ordered lunch in a Sizzlers restaurant.
He was arrested soon after and was found not guilty by reason of insanity. He was diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic and sent to a State hospital.

The last I heard he was to be released in 2003.

I spoke with the parents of the young woman killed many times over the years and they will never be released from their prison.
I’m sure their daughter cried out for sympathy as she suffered at the hands of this homeless criminal.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:52pm PT
pud,
what is your point.
Should we assume the homeless are dangerous?

I say pay cops well, but hold them to a higher standard than the general populace.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jul 30, 2011 - 04:01pm PT
Totally agree Ron.
Police should be held to a higher standard.

That said,
I think all this anti-police rhetoric is a bad joke.
The people posting this stuff would be singing a different tune if they had a police officer save thier life or a loved one's by putting his/her own life on the line.

The homeless man that killed the young woman was mentally ill, this does not excuse his actions. That is my point.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 30, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
I try to take it on an individual basis (and anybody who claims that I've never been tooled big time needs to read the 25 page complaint that won my suit in federal court or look at the hospital photos).

But, and I am not happy to say this, cops have done me far more harm than good.
James Doty

Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
Jul 30, 2011 - 04:10pm PT
Riley,
It is not a myth, I have seen it. Just because in your 1000's it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it can't. But I think I was basicly agreeing with you so whatever.
D.Eubanks

climber
Jul 30, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
When I read this guy was crying out for help Dad!,Dad!,Dad!, I couldn't even begin to think about watching the video.

Reading this makes me feel like I got hit in the chest.
Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Jul 30, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
fattrad - there are many of us in Marin who are mourning the tragic shooting of Jim Mathiesen who was just trying to help his friends - but you make a valid point.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 30, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
One of the many things that bothers me about this is that this guy was a regular on the streets of Fullerton. The cops involved had to know him. Apparently he had no significant priors. From all accounts I've heard, the only complaints from the locals was his penchant for bumming cigarettes. He apparently had no history of aggressive behavior.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 30, 2011 - 05:51pm PT
Cops are civil servants and difficult to get rid of when they become a liability to the department...I've heard a few stories like what Rox's recommending for the fullerton cops...Cops that got fragged by the citiznery for repeated aggressive behavior...If i were these cops , i'd be worried...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 30, 2011 - 06:01pm PT
She shouldn't have approached him by herself...poor judgement there...
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 30, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
Do you really think it takes six cops to place a 135 pound, undernourished homeless guy in to custody? And then they continue to beat him AFTER he has lost conciousness?

This guy had NOT harmed anyone prior to the punch he threw at one of the cops, after they started to beat him. fattrad, there is no relation between this case and the one you mention.

Rodney King led the cops on a car chase. This guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, no relation between the cases.
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Jul 30, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
cops have a hard job and there are some of them that deserve our appreciation and respect but too often this sh#t happens. too many of them have issues of their own. looking at that dudes face after the beating its pretty certain that these cops need to face some hard justice themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8vei3L0L8
WBraun

climber
Jul 30, 2011 - 06:28pm PT
The homeless guy probably spit at them, gave them some obscenities and swung at em.

The first cops to encounter the guy probably went ballistics after getting tooled by the homeless guy because they hate that sh'it.

They don't know at that moment he's a mental case.

Then it was a chain reaction after that as they beat the sh'it out of him.

Their adrenaline kicked in and they forgot everything about police work.

After they were done with him they all came to the "Oh Fuk!!!" moment.

Now a days you have to be real careful what you say and how you act when you come in contact with police.

You never know if the cop is in a bad mood and/or had a bad day or he's sadistic, etc etc.

This kind of sh'it happens all over the world ......



drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jul 30, 2011 - 06:45pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlCmQcRPtRg&feature=related
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 30, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
The homeless guy probably spit at them, gave them some obscenities and swung at em.

The first cops to encounter the guy probably went ballistics after getting tooled by the homeless guy because they hate that sh'it.

They don't know at that moment he's a mental case.

Then it was a chain reaction after that as they beat the sh'it out of him.

Their adrenaline kicked in and they forgot everything about police work.

After they were done with him they all came to the "Oh Fuk!!!" moment.

Now a days you have to be real careful what you say and how you act when you come in contact with police.

You never know if the cop is in a bad mood and/or had a bad day or he's sadistic, etc etc.

This kind of sh'it happens all over the world ......




Is one any better off in a wheelchair Werner?

;)
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 30, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
never mind
Dapper Dan

Trad climber
Menlo Park
Jul 30, 2011 - 08:37pm PT
another brilliant analysis from WBraun .

Give me a break.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 30, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
One of my ER doc friends had a guy who said he was eating an apple in the shower when he slipped, but who the hell can hold down superman and put a hot pepper in his urethra!

I'm calling bogus!

:)
reddirt

climber
PNW
Jul 31, 2011 - 01:37am PT
the Vancouver ones, esp downtown east side Hastings & Main st, are rather ok... unbelievably compassionate in comparison.

edit: check out 4:00-5:30, esp 6:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghTaun3nKMU
reddirt

climber
PNW
Jul 31, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
get a room you two...








(yes I appreciate REI not being a facelift sponsor)
adikted

Trad climber
Jul 31, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
Agreed with Pate FU@& the police....I hope those PIGS get what they deserve...
D.Eubanks

climber
Jul 31, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
I wanna know what can be more cruel than six pigs beating someone to death as he's calling out Dad, Dad, Dad, ?...tell me.
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
Jul 31, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
They killed HIM for being on the street, and nothing else but maybe a little disrespect
I wanna know what can more cruel than six pigs beating someone to death as he's calling out Dad, Dad, Dad, ?...tell me.
Sad, so sad. And we are supposed to be something better than animals.
TY
reddirt

climber
PNW
Jul 31, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
it just seems that many LEO's don't have any mental health training.... & if they did, they piss on it & think nothing of it...

while male, youngish, homeless, even I know schizonprenia patient off meds is a distinct possibility...

another thing, seems like many LEO's are not vested nor grounded in the communities in which they serve, unlike the Vancouver cops I saw. They don't get to know who's homeless but harmless, who's a real threat, etc. Even when there's subsidies for LEO's to afford housing in or at least closer to the areas which they work.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 1, 2011 - 12:41pm PT
Clearly there are some sick people attracted to police work. The real question
should be how to weed them out during the selection process. I have met some
wonderful cops. They're so nice I wonder what attracted them to the job in
the first place and then how do they maintain such a good attitude.

Nevertheless I generally have an overall poor perception. It seems all they
are interested in is writing cash-flow tickets and waiting until they can
succumb to the stress so they can get early retirement. In the last 20
years I've gotten tickets for rolling a stop sign at 7 AM (Monrovia PD).
Rolling a stop sign in a gated community (Bradbury) where there was not
another vehicle to be seen (LASD). Rolling a freeway onramp light which
was on a steep uphill and I was driving a truck with a clutch. The light
turned green when it was even with my window (CHP). OK, I did barely
catch some red on a left turn arrow in Irwindale.
I'm clearly a danger to the community.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 1, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
Of course they were 'justified'. But aren't stop signs there to regulate
traffic? If there isn't any traffic does the bear still poop on the corner?
But that freeway onramp ticket really fried me.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 1, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
"Rather than rules, I prefer to view these as guidelines."lol
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 1, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
Anybody read The Great Santini?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 1, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
Read it? He's by bro-in-law! Seriously. He gets way bent if you don't fold
the newspaper back up just like it was delivereed if you read it before he does!
But you do want him flying your 767. You just don't want to live with him.
Not psycho, and a lot better than he used to be, but still prolly goes through
more TP in a week than most of us do in a year.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 1, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
Reilly...Rode my bike thru Monrovia last monday and you almost hit me...!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 1, 2011 - 10:26pm PT
I agree with base 104 on the government spending more on mental health....People like fattrad and the Tea Partiers could afford meds and return to a happier time and life....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 1, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
Dude! That was you?

Seriously, Saturday I was on Foothill behind 3 cyclists in my F150. I stayed
a decent distance behind them waiting 4 blocks for my right turn to come.
I could have zoomed around them as Foothill is 4 lanes but as a former bike
racer I just played the mellow chase car. I am sure they were waiting for a
typical pickup driver dick move.
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Aug 1, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
Come on guys....give it a break! Agree to disagree, it's ok to have yer own opinion AND be right! Just kinda respect the other person' right to have their opinion.
Peace
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 1, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
Reilly...i was on Foothill for a short while...Then Colorado , carrying a blue duffel bag with 25 lbs. of weed, sweating like a pig...On my way to Eagle Rock for my ride back up here....woulda bought you a beer...RJ
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 1, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
Let the DA, St. Atty. Genl (Kamala Harris) look into this.

look into this = white wash this.

fattrad, the Fullerton police chief has already started sanitizing this. While he will not make the Fullerton video public for fear of tainting potential witnesses, the cops involved were allowed to repeatedly watch the video and revise their reports to put the story in their best light. Umm, any hipocrisy here? The DA has already said they have no authority over the investigation.

Why the hell were these cops not put on administrative leave immediately after the incident? Why did it take three weeks for this to go public? I see a bunch of Fullerton monkeys sitting in a banana tree; one has his hands over his eyes, one has his hands over his ears, one has his hands over his mouth and one has his head up his ass.

Why the hell do you keep referring to the R. King case? There is no relation.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 1, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
johntp..."why weren't these officers put on administrative leave "? In government , no bad deed goes unrewarded...
strangeday

Social climber
The O.C. baby!!
Aug 1, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
I live right near where this happened. Fullerton, and Brea cops as well are f*#king Nazi tools, and look to provoke and escalate their interactions with citizens. It's why I stay the f*#k out of downtown.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 2, 2011 - 12:14am PT
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/thomas-310255-kelly-ron.html?cb=1312142672
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 2, 2011 - 12:29am PT
Until everybody involved is fired, anybody contacted by cops in Fullerton will have to wonder if it's really a cop, or just a murdering punk gangster dressed up in a cop-suit, stopping them.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 2, 2011 - 12:38am PT
The cops that did this will live in hell the rest of their life trying to deny their wrong doing or admitting their guilt...either way , they lose...
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 2, 2011 - 12:58am PT
The worst thing about the $900,000 offer to settle the murder is that it comes out of the pockets of the taxpayers ( who had absolutely nothing to do with this ), instead of out the pockets of the punks who killed this guy.

2nd degree murder is the case.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 2, 2011 - 02:29am PT
Compared to these guys, Ponzi ran an honest game.

And when Carlo Ponzi was caught, he did his time in The Joint, and then he was deported back to Italy, where he belonged.

These cops need to do time in The Joint, too, and because they can't be deported, they should spend the rest of their days in The Joint.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 2, 2011 - 08:16am PT
Che....I'll consider the offer but riding in traffic in 90 degree weather seems safer than scuba diving for the fuel-soaked stuff? RJ
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 2, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
Yeah, cops are brilliant. The new lead in the DB Cooper story brought out
the agent who has been on it from day one. He is such a genius that when the
B727 took off he tried to chase it in a helocopter! Dood, the TO speed
of the 727 is faster than any chopper back then! Oh, and it was dark too.

No wonder they never found him.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 2, 2011 - 12:26pm PT
There was a very dark side to the Giuliani campaign to clean up NYC.

People like the results, but people like to eat sausage as long as they don't have to watch it being made.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 2, 2011 - 01:04pm PT
Sorry Fatty, after the CO kicked me in the head while I was crawling across the floor the sergeant came over to examine my head but it was obvious; not to render aid but rather to see what he might later have to explain.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 2, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
The training didn't seem to work six times over in Fullerton.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 2, 2011 - 05:02pm PT
It's on the front page of the Los Angeles Times.

New video released.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/fatal-fullerton-police-beating-of-homeless-man-sparks-outcry.html

Edit: it's a news video that includes footage of witnesses reactions captured by a bus surveillance video camera. But watch it, it is chilling.

Also, according the video, the Watch Commander watched a live video feed of the attack in police headquarters while the attack was happening.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Aug 2, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
You can go to the City of Fullerton website, and then to "Contact Us", and you can email direct to the Chief of Police and let him know how you feel. I did.
Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Aug 2, 2011 - 05:35pm PT
The bus video is pretty powerful - I have to think that some or all of these cops are going to be convicted on something serious. It probably should be 2nd degree murder - but look what the BART cop got away with.

I want to be sympathetic to the police for the work they do for us - but this incident is very troubling. Who trained these guys - the Syrians?

Question for Fatty or others - what should concerned bystanders have done in this case? What if someone had approached the cops and politely asked them to stop beating this guy? My guess is that they would be have been immediately tased and probably beaten.

Do we know what other video exists? What was the watch commander watching? Should be an interesting trial.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 2, 2011 - 05:48pm PT
Question for Fatty or others - what should concerned bystanders have done in this case? What if someone had approached the cops and politely asked them to stop beating this guy? My guess is that they would be have been immediately tased and probably beaten.

Call 911. Narrate what you are seeing as graphically as possible and request that they send someone immediately to stop it. If its police, request that they send the sherrif's dept and vice versa. This will go right through to headquarters and they'll probably send out a supervisor ASAP.

Also video it with your cell phone.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 2, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
Who trained these guys - the Syrians?

Funny you should ask that. I was just watching this video
"viewer discretion advised" from Syria
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/08/02/syria.video/index.html?hpt=hp_p1&iref=NS1

I was reminded of the Fullerton police.

What they did was not very different.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 2, 2011 - 05:54pm PT
Police
General 714.738.6800
Jail 714.738.6722

Chief of Police Michael Sellers 714.738.6825 msellers@fullertonpd.org

Captain, Uniform Division Dan Hughes 714.738.6840
dhughes@fullertonpd.org

Captain, Services Division Alex Bastreri 714.738.6839 rbastreri@fullertonpd.org

Captain, Investigation Division Kevin Hamilton 714.738.6841 khamilton@fullertonpd.org

Sergeant, Police Public Information Officer Andrew Goodrich 714.738.6838 agoodrich@fullertonpd.org
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Aug 2, 2011 - 06:20pm PT
It's like Cube used to rap:
Take off the gun and the badge and what do you got?
A sucker in a uniform waiting to be shot...
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Aug 2, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
Miracles can and do happen. Anyone remember the Abner Louima case?

NYPD officer Justin Volpe initially pleaded not guilty to several counts of violating Louima's civil rights, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to police.[5] Midway through the trial, Volpe changed his plea to guilty, confessing to having sodomized Louima. Despite the fact that Louima had several broken teeth, Volpe denied that he ever struck Louima in the mouth with the stick and claimed that he only put it very close to Louima's mouth. Volpe also admitted that he had threatened Louima's life.[6] On December 13, 1999, Volpe was sentenced to 30 years in prison without the possibility of parole, a $525 fine and restitution in the amount of $277,495.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 2, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
The OC Coroner has reported the autopsy was inconclusive with regard to cause of death. I'm no coroner, but what that tells me is that Kelley had more than one injury which could have caused his death, but the damage was so massive they could not tell heads for tails.

I did not start this thread meaning for it to be an "I hate Cops" thread. Generally I am glad they are around; although as I've grown older I tend to have less and less respect for them.

The main reason for this thread is so the cops specifically involved in this incident face the court of public opinion.
Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Aug 2, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
Hopefully it's not "inconclusive" as with Caylee Anthony. Jose Baez is probably looking for some new clients.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 2, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
It will be interesting to see how the coroner's findings impact subsequent trials (if there are any). My take is since the coroner was "unable" to determine the cause of death, it gives the possible defendents a lot more wiggle room with regard to reasonable doubt.

This whole thing stinks to high hell and smells of cover up on so many levels.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 2, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
Because he survived to die in the hospital, manual strangulation is ruled out.

That leaves blunt force trauma to the head as cause of death.

We know who did it.

It's been a month, now.

I don't understand why there's been no criminal prosecution.
reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 3, 2011 - 12:18am PT
FWIW, as an aside, it may or may not be the case in Fullerton, but in some juridictions, the coroner does not have to be an MD or even have a kollege degree...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 3, 2011 - 12:23am PT
Reddirt..i noticed....Mono county had this tool for a coroner. several years ago....i don't think he had any medical background..he also had this lame tattoo and tried to act younger than his age....pityful...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 3, 2011 - 12:32am PT
The OC Coroner has reported the autopsy was inconclusive with regard to cause of death. I'm no coroner, but what that tells me is that Kelley had more than one injury which could have caused his death, but the damage was so massive they could not tell heads for tails.

"inconclusive"
Dude as a medical guy I will tell that is 100 percent bullshit and POLITICAL!

it may or may not be the case in Fullerton, but in some juridictions, the coroner does not have to be an MD or even have a kollege degree

I just looked up the Orange County Coroner and guess what!?

Orange County DOES NOT HAVE A INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL CORONER.

The Orange County Coroner is the ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF who has no medical expertise. The official title is "Sheriff-Coroner"
http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Sheriff-Coroner%20-%20Sandra%20Hutchens

So this was a killing by cops in Orange County and the people running the autopsy were Orange County cops.

reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 3, 2011 - 12:32am PT
I will try to not die of mysterious causes in Mono.

here's another recent crazy case of excess LEO "efforts"

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/akron_canton_news/driver-feels-like-a-victim-after-encounter-with-canton-police-officer
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 3, 2011 - 12:54am PT
^^^^
The full video: http://youtu.be/kassP7zI0qc
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 3, 2011 - 01:10am PT
Radio news says the torches and pitchforks are out right now at the Fullerton city council meeting.

The whole reason we have a court system is for situations like this. The courts are there to keep us from simply storming the police station and killing all involved.

The proper remedy is to immediately lock up everyone involved on second degree murder charges, and let the court sort things out.

The alternitive is real torches and pitchforks.
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
Aug 3, 2011 - 01:37am PT
Justice, too, is relative.
reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 3, 2011 - 01:48am PT
jus·tice/ˈjəstis/Noun
1. just us
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Aug 3, 2011 - 01:59am PT
Fattrad,

Not that I had much respect for you before this thread, but you have erased any that was there. I know not all cops are bad, but ANY defense of this situation is ridiculous.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 3, 2011 - 03:34am PT
Look at this:

http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/uh-oh-is-the-das-investigation-in-the-hands-of-the-chiefs-good-buddy/

Formatting doesn't copy, but I've pasted it below.

Go to the site for the correct formatting and the comments.

Uh Oh. Is the DA’s Investigation in the Hands of the Chief’s Good Buddy?
Posted by Travis Kiger in Orange County Government, The Crime Beat on July 28th, 2011


We may have figured out why it took the District Attorney investigators three weeks to start talking to witnesses on the Kelly Thomas police beating case…



According to this unsigned note that just came in to our website, Chief Sellers is a close personal friend of DA investigator Stan Berry, who was immediately assigned to the high-profile Fullerton case:

I suggest you check into the connection between Investigator Berry and FPD Chief Sellers. Sellers hired Berry when he was the Chief at Seal Beach PD. Sellers and his wife Rita Fraser-Sellers, are close personal friends with Berry and his wife, Kristen Berry, the Dispatch Supervisor in Seal Beach. They socialize together, vacation together and entertain each other in their respective homes.

Of all the DA investigators, why choose Berry, other than he will help cover for his friend.
Presumably that case assignment was a decision made by the DA Tony Rackauckas. I have confirmed that Berry worked as an investigator under Chief Sellers for the Seal Beach Police Department.


As for as the familial socializing, entertaining and vacationing together…maybe the Chief can clear that one up for us.

If our informant is correct, this would be a huge conflict of interest in a very high-profile investigation.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 3, 2011 - 03:49am PT
One of the cops has been identified by an informant as one Jay Cincinelli. (Seems the identity of the cops is still being concealed by the Fullerton Police Dept!)

Allegedly, Jay Cincinelli has a close friend and mentor high up in the OC Sheriff's Dept who got him his job with the Fullerton PD. Remember that the OC Sherriff also is the coroner and performed the "inconclusive" autopsy.

See here: http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/tag/kelly-thomas-beating/

And here: http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/08/02/brutal-police-beating-of-homeless-man-kelly-thomas-reveals-the-need-for-more-transparency/
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 3, 2011 - 03:58am PT
I'm on a google roll.

The current OC Sheriff-Coroner was appointed when the previous Sheriff-Coroner was indicted by the feds. He is now a convicted felon serving time in prison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Carona

"The OC" seems to be a magnet for crooked cops.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 3, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
Isn't the LAPD in LA county?
reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 3, 2011 - 07:19pm PT
If the cops who killed/shot the Katrina victims in the back got their day in court, perhaps Fullerton cops involved will... or won't....

Wrong doesn't describe it... it's little (but not zero) consolation that it's coming to light, sorta.
malabarista

Trad climber
Portland, OR
Aug 3, 2011 - 07:30pm PT
What a sad and sick thing, there is no excuse for this. Hopefully these officers all serve long sentences. Anything less than 10 years in the can for these guys is a joke.
AndyG

climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 3, 2011 - 09:37pm PT
I should have killed them, they both earned it by bad decisions.

The evil one


I'm I the only one that is bothered by this? Unless they killed someone in cold blood they don't deserve to die for their decisions. And even then, it would not be your job to execute them. Attitude like this is why people end up hating cops.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 4, 2011 - 02:15am PT
I'm all for letting the cops tell their side and giving them a fair trial before an impartial judge and jury.

But if it was you and me who did what they did, we would have been arrested and would be in jail or having to put up a load of cash to post bond.

Not only have these cops not been arrested, but they were kept on the job until just recently, almost a FULL MONTH after the attack. Now they are on leave (administrative leave meaning that they are getting FULL PAY for doing NOTHING, so really it is PAID VACATION, funded by the taxpayers).

The only reason they were put on leave is that the public outcry became to great due to the media attention.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 4, 2011 - 03:16am PT
Not only have these cops not been arrested, but they were kept on the job until just recently, almost a FULL MONTH after the attack. Now they are on leave

According to http://fullertonsfuture.org/ , an informant on a KFI AM radio show, claims one of the cops, Jay Cicinelli, who delivered much of the beating, was as recently as last week working plainclothes for the Fullerton PD gang detail. Its impossible to know the credibility of the source, but considering how this incident has played out so far, nothing would surprise me.

Rokjox and Riley, I highly recommend the script that blocks fatty. What happened to Kelly Thomas is outrageous, and any fool who believes a human can deserve such treatment, should be outcast and ignored.

Some of the Fullerton command staff need to be relieved of their positions and jailed, along with the offending officers.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 4, 2011 - 08:47am PT
If you live in LA, listen to KFI-AM 640's John and Ken from 3-7pm, they have been ALL OVER this story and helped get the officers involved off the streets and on to paid admin duty. They've devoted entire shows to this topic when it was clear the Fullerton PD was doing nothing to get the officers involved off patrol duty.

If not in LA, iheartradio.com, you can get them that way. They've been the biggest bulldogs in the LA market on this story, far ahead of any other journalism outlet.
dr_climber

Trad climber
Aug 4, 2011 - 09:16am PT
Land of the free my ass. We've given cops power to abuse people as they like, without consequence. I hope they all die. F*&k the police.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Aug 4, 2011 - 09:31am PT
A sad piece of this whole story is of a family who has been struggling with a son who had a severe and chronic mental illness. Their loved one unfortunately ran into a system that has little if any training or understanding of such disabilities and obviously individuals who have criminal level behavior issues themselves.

There is nothing more gut winching to see your loved ones suffer. Beyond justice being served I can only hope such tragic outcomes can help our society become better aware of and prepared for those who have been dealt a bad gene. 3% of our population suffers from psychotic illness, image all the classes of 30 kids you ever sat through one of your fellow students was suffering or would be an unimaginable hell. This is not something we talk about or understand, not like heart disease.

What a sad and terrible story of a young man and family who through no fault of their own got served the worse of our public safety system. My heart goes out to his family who's suffering will never end.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 4, 2011 - 10:32am PT
from http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/kelly-thomas-the-drifter/

Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 4, 2011 - 10:48am PT
Mark my words....these officers will be found not guilty. In 14 yrs of working in tv news here, I saw many a case of blatant police abuse caught on tape and every time, the jury let them off. See the Inglewood beating case in point. They attacked the guy and walked away scott free.

I'm not saying I'm anti-cop. If anything I am very pro-police, they have one hell of a hard job and the majority do it very well. I know a hell of a lot of really dedicated officers who want to do the right things and put their lives on the line every day to do it.

But there's another dimension which doesn't feel that way. It's a smaller number but it's there. One of the Fullerton officers had been booted by a better force after issues there. He was a known bully and was a big part in the Kelly Thomas case.
pimp daddy wayne

Gym climber
Manchester, VT
Aug 4, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
Fatrad. You are a piece of sh#t.
dr_climber

Trad climber
Aug 4, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
fattrad,

If you were a straight and reasonable cop, then that's great. Kudos to you. It's a tough job. But you have to realize that most of us have been screwed with by cops on massive power trips, and it's not fun.

Last time I was on a road trip, I got pulled over and they brought a K-9 unit over to walk around the car. They had the dog jumping all over the car, scratched up the outside of my car, etc. They didn't find anything because I didn't have anything, and I found the whole thing unnecessary. I was supposedly pulled over for going 6 mph over on the interstate.

In Seattle my buddy was crossing the street to go to a ball game. There was a group of cops standing around doing nothing. No traffic in sight. Most of the roads were closed. When they saw us in the crosswalk, they started yelling for us to stop and go back, despite the fact that we were already half way across. I complied, because my way of dealing with as#@&%e cops is to just smile and say "yes sir" and satisfy their power trip so I can get on with what I'm doing. My friend kept going. An officer grabbed him, forcibly walked him back across the street, told him to STAY like a f**ing dog. The cop went back across the street, and then told him he could cross. When my friend protested all of this nonsense, the officer gave him a ticket for $50.

If you guys did more fighting of real crimes (murders, rapes, etc.) and less screwing with innocent citizens, you'd have a better reputation.
Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Aug 4, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
Much less violent perhaps, but here are some other recent examples of encroaching petty tyranny in our country:

http://con.st/10021442
(Out of control US Fish & Wildlife Service agent fines an 11-yr old for trying to save a woodpecker and harasses her family with VA state trooper in tow.)

http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplicable-war-on-lemonade-stands/
(Cops shut down lemonade stands.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZZHGO5sXw
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/128288/20110329/deldot-delaware-state-police-mccafferty-basketball.htm
(Delaware state troopers remove basketball hoops from neighborhood cul-de-sacs where they had stood for over 60 years.)

These are the stories that are coloring my perception of police these days. When they are not violently assaulting the underclass with disproportionate force, they are enthusiastically aiding the petty bureaucrats who are trampling the rights of taxpaying Americans. And with their fire dept buddies, they are absolutely bankrupting our municipalities with their pension, OT, and disability schemes.

Cops out here in the Bay Area are pretty good at writing tickets - not so great at solving or preventing murders. But they do get away with murder (BART cop Johannes Mehserle shot an unarmed and subdued man in the back and got off with a slap on the wrist). And trust me on this - they are really good at collecting disability.

Fight the Power! (And this is coming from a guy who votes Republican likely more often than anyone on this forum except for Fatty.)


Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Aug 4, 2011 - 04:10pm PT
Rokjox - I've been voting Republican in the hope that the size and scope of govt might be reduced. Certainly hasn't worked out that way. Both major parties stand for crony capitalism, influence peddling, wasteful spending and very little change that you can believe in.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 4, 2011 - 05:31pm PT
Anyone here that holds hostilities towards COPS in general simply because they got ticketed or hassled are a bunch FOOLS...

What about the cops that stood by and watched and did nothing and then maybe even lied about what they saw?

Or who found out about it later and did nothing and then maybe even lied about what they knew?

The Blue Code of Silence (also known as the "Blue Shield") is an unwritten rule among police officers in the United States not to report on another colleague's errors, misconducts or crimes. Other names associated with the Blue Code of Silence are the blue wall, curtain, veil, or cocoon. If questioned about an incident of misconduct involving another officer (e.g. during the course of an official inquiry), while following the Blue Code of Silence, the officer being questioned would claim ignorance of another officer's wrongdoing.

Some police officers enforce a tribal value system also known as an emotional value system which is considered to be a "police family" or "police brotherhood". The tribal value system is a part of the Blue Code of Silence. Members of the tribal system generally receive emotional support and security from other police officers. The Blue Code of Silence is considered to be controversial because it questions ethics and values in law enforcement. In some cases, many police officers have been pressured into following the Blue Code of Silence.[1]



Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 4, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
Some cops are even funny.

I like the dashcam video where the cop pulls over a car for running a stop sign and the female driver says, "I thought you didn't give tickets to pretty girls."

Without missing a beat he says, "We don't. Sign here please."
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 4, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
News Flash!

The cop's lawyers are saying the victim was resisting arrest and combative.

This probably correlates to the cops reports, reworked many times while reviewing the tape that Fullerton refuses to release.

Yeah, fricking right! It reflects very poorly on the Fullerton PD and the City of Fullerton that they continue to try to bury this and spin it rather than being forth right about obvious criminal action by the PD.

Edit- If the Fullerton video exonerates the cops, why don't they release it? My guess is this video is going to be lost or digitally corrupted. They have had plenty of time to photoshop it.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 4, 2011 - 10:57pm PT
I wonder if the freddies are looking at this. They learn from stuff like this. A teachable moment for them.
After Waco you don't see them rolling APCs on anyone anymore. Better to lose a few agents than be seen as fascists with tanks.

They must be wondering if more localized police departments keep screwing up like this then it will turn public sentiment away from ALL cops at a grassroots level.

With funds for government benefits evaporating as we speak respect for law is a lynchpin that could fail.
Any country is only 3 meals from revolution.
reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 4, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
I wonder if the freddies are looking at this.

did you mean feddies?

I vaguely recall reading there is an FBI/DOJ investigation.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 4, 2011 - 11:07pm PT
The cops have long practiced an us-vs-them attitude, as far as the public is concerned.

The wide-spread support the police receive from the public is largely un-earned, and the cops are lucky to have it.

The cops in Fullerton must not understand this. They're dancing on a minefield they seem not to see.

You don't ever want to be on John & Ken's Shitlist.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 4, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
fattrad-

I generally respect you, but cannot understand why you keep using the Rodney King case reference. There is no connection or analogy. Rodney led the police on a car chase that endagered the public and the cops, was high on many drugs and alcohol. Such is not the case here. Apparentley this guy was wandering around the parking lot looking for cigarette butts to smoke and they accosted him. He ran. They started to beat him. He threw a punch. They beat him to death.

Rogue cops pure and simple.
dr_climber

Trad climber
Aug 5, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
I don't think this is really about cops being dirty, or not dirty. Cops are people, just like everyone else, and it's a mixed bag. The problem is giving cops, or anyone, too much power and credibility. That's always dangerous.

These guys need to be fried.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 5, 2011 - 09:40pm PT
fattrad-

I'll give you that the cops in both cases went too far. I just hold that in this case it appears Kelley Thomas had a significantly fewer amount of aggravations at the time of arrest than RK.

Maybe I misunderstood the intent of your previous posts. It seemed to me you were backing the cops in Fullerton. In re-reading some of this thread and your last post, it seems you agree in this case the cops crossed the line and should be investigated and prosecuted if the evidence supports it.

My question is will Fullerton continue to supress the evidence and ignore the need to properly investigate this incident?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 9, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
Orange County DA, Tony Rackauckas apparently believes that if you bludgeon someone to death its OK -- just because you pulverized their head into bloody pulp doesn't necessarily mean that you were trying to kill them


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fullerton-death-20110809,0,6499619.story

"Hi, I'm Tony Rackauckas. Don't I look pretty? It wasn't MY head that go pulverized. hahaha. Remember to vote for me!"
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 9, 2011 - 08:16pm PT
I am fearful if the cops DO walk.

The backlash could be tragic.
Just look at the London riots. Using police abuse as an excuse to steal.
(One fact there speaks "volumes". At a mall every store was looted except a bookstore!)

How many black people were victims of the Rodney King riots?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 9, 2011 - 08:29pm PT
Please imagine a scenario where the victim was an off-duty, out of uniform police officer and the perpetrators were on duty private security. All other details are the same?

Would the police treat it the same? Would the DA's Office treat it the same?

Not only have there been no arrests, but incredibly, the Fullerton Police Department and the DA's Office won't even release their names over a month later" This should be public information!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 9, 2011 - 08:31pm PT
Riley,You're all worked up about this.

As we all should be, Jeff. Not that we should form lynch mobs, but that we should continue to express our outrage loudly and frequently, because if we do not, then this will get swept under the carpet.

Only if enough people get worked up, and stay worked up, will justice be done.
reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 9, 2011 - 08:31pm PT
Granite- this is maybe the most heinous thing I have ever seen.

for this to be coming off of Reily's keyboard is say a whole hellfck of a lot... there's a reason for the moments where Reily comes off as an @sshole & I chalked it partly up to the myriad of sh#t he's seen or dealt with.

I truly wish LEO's would have an appreciation for what they do not understand, rather than just beating to death what they do not understand...

starting with stuff like this guy, who, by the luck of genetics & shitty luck could have been Kelly Thomas http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/one-mans-story-of-schizophrenia/

(& why does the taco make my screen clips so much bigger than actual size?)
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 9, 2011 - 08:48pm PT
When all attempts to thwart blame fail, hire a consultant.

http://www.cityoffullerton.com/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=2441

===

8/8/2011 Bookmark and Share
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PRESS RELEASE #16311
Subject :

City Manager to recommend hiring independent reviewer for police department
Contact : Sylvia Palmer Mudrick, Public Information Coordinator, Fullerton City Manager’s Office (714) 738-6317

City Manager Joe Felz will recommend to the Fullerton City Council that it approve the hiring of Michael Gennaco to conduct an independent administrative inquiry and review of policies and procedures at the Fullerton Police Department.


Gennaco is an independent consultant who works with law enforcement agencies across the nation.


The city manager’s action comes in the wake of a July incident in which a homeless man, Kelly Thomas, died five days after an altercation with Fullerton officers, who were attempting to arrest him on suspicion of auto burglary.


“The recommendation to hire Mr. Gennaco is consistent with the city’s stated desire from the outset for an independent review and transparency on all matters related to the Kelly Thomas incident,” Felz said.


“The death of Mr. Thomas is a tragedy that has deeply affected the entire community. Mr. Gennaco’s review will provide a comprehensive look at policies and procedures at the Police Department, and if there are problems found, he will make recommendations on corrections.”


In addition to his independent consultant work, Gennaco is chief attorney for the Los Angeles County Office of Independent Review (OIR), a civilian oversight committee created in 2001 by the Los Angeles County supervisors to monitor the L.A. County Sheriff’s Department.


Prior to the OIR, Gennaco served in the U.S. Attorney’s Office, where he was chief of the civil rights section in Los Angeles. In that capacity, he was responsible for overseeing all police misconduct, hate crimes, and involuntary servitude investigations and prosecutions for Central California. He also served as federal civil rights liaison for community and public interest groups and federal and local law enforcement agencies.


Prior to the U.S. Attorney’s Office, Gennaco worked several years as a trial attorney with the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice in Washington D.C.


Gennaco received his doctorate of jurisprudence from Stanford Law School. He has also served as an adjunct professor at American University Law School, George Washington University School of Law, Loyola Law School, and the Chapman College of Law.

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 9, 2011 - 09:05pm PT
As we all should be, Jeff. Not that we should form lynch mobs, but that we should continue to express our outrage loudly and frequently, because if we do not, then this will get swept under the carpet.

That is my concern. It seems the Fullerton politicos are doing all they can to minimize this and push it out until it goes away due to lack of interest. The incestuous (sp?) relationship between the Fullerton PD and City Council in handling this smacks of cover-up.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 9, 2011 - 09:09pm PT





"Hi, I'm Tony Rackauckas. Don't I look pretty? It wasn't MY head that go pulverized. hahaha. Remember to vote for me!"



That would make a pretty good campaign ad for whoever runs against this as#@&%e.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Aug 9, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
It doesn't really matter what Fullerton's response is, you folks with pitchforks will still be unhappy.

Anyone know if video pre-beatdown is available? I only saw one and it just had yelling in the background, but no view of what occurred.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 9, 2011 - 10:37pm PT
When all attempts to thwart blame fail, hire a consultant.

I think a grand jury would be more appropriate.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 9, 2011 - 10:42pm PT
t doesn't really matter what Fullerton's response is, you folks with pitchforks will still be unhappy.

Anyone know if video pre-beatdown is available? I only saw one and it just had yelling in the background, but no view of what occurred.

The only possible justification for that level of beat down would be if he killed, maimed or raped someone.


Being nuts clearly isn't
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 9, 2011 - 11:25pm PT
What a joke.

Much of the ranting here is from the same people I have seen on the Supertopo forum saying they would maim and/or kill gear theives.

Hypocrites.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 10, 2011 - 12:12am PT
That would be fattrad...most of his victims were found with a twinkie that looked like a pellet gun..
ME Climb

Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
Aug 10, 2011 - 03:28pm PT
I don't know all of the details and have heard many rumors. All I can say is don't believe everything the media reports. The OCDA is investigating. If they can prove criminal acts they will prosecute, as they should. After that Fullerton will conduct an investigation.

This is a terrible incident for all involved.

Eric
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 10, 2011 - 06:41pm PT
It doesn't really matter what Fullerton's response is, you folks with pitchforks will still be unhappy.

There are plenty of cities that have responded appropriately to police brutality. Fullerton should be used as a textbook example of how NOT to respond. For example, usually in situations like this, the cops are put on administrative leave immediately and an invetigation is conducted.

In this case, the city and its police department just tried to ignore the situation. It wasn't until a whole month had gone by before they put the cops on administrative leave and started at least trying to pretend that they were doing a serious investigation, and this was only after the story "got legs" and got national media attention. After the way the acted during the month after the killing, it's hard to take them seriously.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 10, 2011 - 08:14pm PT
Riley/radical,
You kiss your mom with that mouth?
ME Climb

Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
Aug 10, 2011 - 08:20pm PT
Like I said I do not know enough of the facts of this case to tell you what happened, but I do know in OC the autosy was performed by a qualified medical examiner. I also know Chief Sellers and Inv. Berry. If there was wrong doing on the part of the officers they will ensure that the are prosecuted/ terminated.

Again this was a tragic incident for all involved.

Eric
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 10, 2011 - 08:53pm PT
That's right Riley! You are guilty until proven innocent so you should have allowed them to arrest you immediately so they could draw your blood. I know this is what all attorneys advise. ;)
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 10, 2011 - 09:08pm PT
I am aware some a few criminal justice things Fatty.

Cops are generally not directed/allowed to taze for verbal abuse only. That is, if an officer gets out of a car and the citizen is verbally abusive, the next step in the use of force continuum is NOT to taze them.

Clearly use of force continuum differ by jurisdiction, but that would be highly unusual. I know one jurisdiction did have that order, but it was changed after an officer tazed a citizen who then died.

While Riley may have had an attitude based on his own description of the incident, the police are trained to deal with that - at least they are supposed to be trained to deal with that.

I am a defender of police officers - I too believe most are good folks - just like every single occupation out there. But I also know that all do not behave well all the time. Most officers would agree with that. It may very well be that the officer that pulled over Riley was an as#@&%e. They sometimes manage to get uniforms and do bad things such as beat a homeless man to death. Or shoot a man who was unarmed. Or plant a gun on a subject who died as a result of an accidental shooting death. Or commit a string of burglaries under the cover of their uniforms. They are human too.

Neither you nor I was there at Riley's incident. It is as simple as that. It sounds to me like the one officer was a jerk. And it sounds like Riley was a jerk. Simple as that. I would have gotten pissed off after blowing four times too.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:08am PT
Fullerton Police Chief Sellers has been placed on "indefinite medical leave".

What a fricking joke. But I do knott find it funny. The coverup continues.
ME Climb

Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:25am PT
Fatty thanks for diming me off :)

Everyone remember that everything written in the newspaper is not always the truth, and is often only one side of the story.

As for police work,it is often a violent business. Law enforcement only deals with people at negative times of their life. We very rarely get to deal with people during positive times. Use of force is never pretty and everyone involved gets hurt. We are trained to deal with ever changing circumstances, but we are typically unwilling actors in a script that someone else has written. We do not create the situation that causes the use of force, wether less than lethal or lethal. Tasers, batons, OC, etc are only tools. Sometimes they work sometimes they don't. When they work they are great and can minimize injuries to both suspects and officers.

The mental health system in America is in shambles. Police officers are not trained psychologists and there is no way we can respond like we are. People with psych issues are often times violent, irrational, and surprisingly strong. pain compliance techniques do not work as their brains often do not register pain. When this happens you must physically incompacitate them. Unfortunately this will often result in injuries.

Attitude and demeanor go a long way in determining how contacts are handled. If you are a jerk to the cop you WILL lose. We have several very large books that tell us what we can "tool" someone with. If you want to challenge me then you will get cited or arrested for one of the little sections in my books. And feel free to complain as all of my contacts are video and audio recorded.

As for those of you who say cops should be shot...does that mean I should be shot because I chose to spend my life defending and protecting others. Yes I chose this life and know that I could get killed just because I wear a uniform. If you think it is ok to kill a cop please tell that to the widow of Brad Ritches, the family of the San Diego officer killed while sittin at a red light, the families of the four Lakewood, WA cops who were shot while having briefing in a coffee shop. Better yet tell it to my partner whose best friend, Ryan Bonaminio, was murdered by a parolee after Ryan begged for his life. F YOU! I have an honorable job that I do to the best of my ability. Most cops are good humans that are trying to protect the sheep from the wolves. WE are human and not perfect.

Sorry for the rant, I am tired of going to the funerals and putting the black band on my badge. And yes my badge currently has a black band on it again.

Eric
ME Climb

Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:27am PT
Johntp- news is often wrong.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:43am PT
ME

Yeah, I understand your perspective. In this case it is wrong. Is it justified to kill someone who is helpless because you have a tough job? I can find nothing in this that supports the end result.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:45am PT
If you are a jerk to the cop you WILL lose

That pretty much puts it into perspective. Thanks for showing us. So if the cop is a jerk, what happens? We will lose. You are saying that you have the right to try, judge and sentence someone because you perceive they are a jerk.

I say bull!
ME Climb

Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:55am PT
All I am saying about this case is what is being brought out by the media MAY not be the whole story, and it could also be only one side of the story because FPD, the DA's office and others are not able to comment on an on-going investigation. I don't know. All I have heard is rumors. I am very close friends with someone whose dad works for FPD and he doesn't even know all the circumstances.

If a cop is a jerk to you you have every right to contact the watch commander and file a complaint. I try to treat everyone like I want my wife to be treated. If I am a dick fie a complaint. ALL of my contacts are video and audio recorded. I have NOTHING to hide about how I conduct business. If I do something wrong I will take my lumps like a man.

Eric
ME Climb

Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
Aug 11, 2011 - 01:02am PT
And from someone who has had to use deadly force....it is NEVER an easy decision and something you must live with for the rest of your life....wether justified or not. And imagine how you would feel if you were just trying to defend yourself and were wrong. Or if you were defending yourself and somethng that should have been less lethal turned out to be lethal.

Dont get me wrong. If these cops did soemthing criminal I would hapily sit on a jury to covict them. The investigation is a long way from being over. I believe that the DA's office and FPD will do the right thing.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 11, 2011 - 01:04am PT
Riley - I noted you were are jerk after they had you blow multiple times. You yourself said you started saying f*#k you, etc. At this point you acted like a jerk and I would have too.

BTW, I didn't get a chance to tell Ashcroft to f*#k off to his face the times I met him. I did take pleasure in the fact that he believed my real name was Callipygous though. He didn't know what it meant. Heh heh. (I get tired sometimes of folks asking what my name is short for). I snicker to this day thinking about it.

edit: ME Climber - I think news is most often wrong (and not necessarily on purpose)!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 11, 2011 - 01:26am PT
Embattled Fullerton police chief goes on medical leave
Chief Michael Sellers has been under pressure to step down after six officers were involved in a confrontation with a homeless man, who later died from his injuries.

By Abby Sewell and Richard Winton, Los Angeles Times
August 11, 2011

Fullerton Police Chief Michael Sellers has taken medical leave amid calls for his resignation as six of his officers are being investigated for their role in the death of a homeless man.

Sellers has been under mounting pressure to answer questions about the night of July 5, when officers responding to reports of an attempted vehicle break-in near a bus station confronted Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old schizophrenic homeless man who had become a fixture in downtown Fullerto
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 11, 2011 - 01:38am PT
[quote]All I am saying about this case is what is being brought out by the media MAY not be the whole story, and it could also be only one side of the story because FPD, the DA's office and others are not able to comment on an on-going investigation. I don't know. All I have heard is rumors. I am very close friends with someone whose dad works for FPD and he doesn't even know all the circumstances.

If a cop is a jerk to you you have every right to contact the watch commander and file a complaint.[quote]

Give me a break! If the FPD had any positive evidence they would have played it by now. Oh yeah, good luck filing that complaint AFTER they have beat you to death. And I have little doubt the watch commander will lie to protect the team.

EDIT- ME, I do not intend this to be an affront to you or cops in general. I just think in this case things got f-ed up and FPD is not being forthwith. The lack of honesty sucks and creates suspiscion and doubt about FPDs integrity.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 11, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
When the going gets tough, the lesser among us take off on *medical leave*.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Aug 11, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
And I have little doubt the watch commander will lie to protect the team
According to the anonymous informant who called the John and Ken Show on KFI am, the fatal tooling was observed in real time on CCTV by 3 dispatchers and the watch commander. The resolution of the video was said to be clear enough to see exactly who was doing what. The caller alleged that the officers involved were told to write their reports AFTER watching the video (!), and that some were made to re-write their reports several times, presumably to better corroborate the other reports - or to simply appear less damning (ie, honest and true).

In my knott so humble opinion, there is absolutely no justification for the poor man's face to be pummeled beyond recognition - plain and simple. I hope the bastards responsible (and especially those involved in any coverup) rot in hell.
Barbarian

Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
Aug 11, 2011 - 03:27pm PT
You can't be fired while on medical leave. This is the path to a continuing paycheck when your neck is on the chopping block.

Let me read the future:

The chief will be granted a medical retirement for "stress" and draw a full pension.

In the private sector, you are greeted by someone with a box and escorted from the building.
Barbarian

Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
Aug 11, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
And I wouldn't count on the OC DA (T Rack) to conduct a fair and honest investigation. His whole department has been mired in ongoing mud. Right now he's trying to explain how he carried and then lost a friend's unlicensed gun (carried without a permit). He's also being looked at because he promoted the wife of the local party power broker to be his Chief of Staff. Seems the raise he gave her exceeded the county's policy.
He does not appear to be trustworthy.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 12, 2011 - 12:37am PT
Barbarian writes:

"The chief will be granted a medical retirement for "stress" and draw a full pension.
In the private sector, you are greeted by someone with a box and escorted from the building."

Damn straight!

Every job I've ever worked had me under more-or-less constant stress. And I'll bet everybody else's job is no different.
mwatsonphoto

Trad climber
los angeles, ca
Aug 12, 2011 - 01:29am PT
This is finally getting mentioned on NPR here in Los Angeles.

Medical leave = pussy. Be a man and fall on your own sword.

Argon

climber
North Bay, CA
Aug 12, 2011 - 03:52am PT
Thankfully the spotlight is shining on the Fullerton Police Dept - perhaps justice will eventually be served. Hopefully evidence is not being destroyed or tampered with - but the actions of the FPD so far have been extremely troubling. Cell phones were apparently confiscated from witnesses. A trial of the officers should be forthcoming and maybe all of the evidence will surface then - but the public has an immediate right to know what happened that night. By now we all should have seen all the police videos plus the videos captured by any witnesses that wished to share them. Any confiscated cameras or phones should have been returned - and the officers who confiscated them should be charged with violating citizen's civil rights.

Some cops (and many other civil servants) need to get it through their too often thick skulls that they work for us. We pay their salaries - they are our employees. We have a right to know what kind of men and women we hired to be cops and exactly what they do when they are on duty and being paid by us.

And if the local DA can't be trusted to perform a prompt, honest and thorough investigation, then he should be fired and a higher authority (maybe Gov. Moonbeam) should call in someone who can.

Police chief Michael Sellers going out on medical leave appears to be a cowardly act - one for which the taxpayers will pay through the nose. Now they must pay for a new chief while continuing to pay Sellers (plus they are likely already paying for several other retired or "disabled" chiefs). The Chief of Police position probably costs the community several million dollars per year (as it does in San Francisco and many other cities). If Sellers is so stressed out, maybe he should get himself a medical marijuana prescription. Oh, but guess what - his cops shut down the only dispensary in the city last month.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 12, 2011 - 03:58am PT
I always thought our *first responders* were made of tougher stuff than the rest of us. I guess that's all just bullsh#t. The ones who do the best - and make Chief - are more fragile than my 90lb Grandmother, who never quit anything, even in the face of life-ending medical problems.

*First responders*, in the twenty-first century, are sure a bunch of limp-wristed crybabies.
monkeyboyrob

climber
military industrial complex, virginia
Aug 12, 2011 - 04:21am PT
i have "friends" that are cops. i wouldn't trust any one of them further than i could pitch him having pulled and fired his sidearm.

make of that what you will...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 12, 2011 - 04:28am PT
The LEO overreacted and you did as well. You should have offered blood after the second breathlyr.

I thought you had a choice of either submitting to the breathanalyzer or getting the blood test. Also, I must have missed where Riley explained what went down--can someone link to the post?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 12, 2011 - 10:28am PT
If this Chief retires because of a disability, half of his pension is non-taxable.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 12, 2011 - 11:34am PT
No one's talking about locking these guys up without a trial.

Why is a criminal conviction necessary before these cops are simply fired?

They can't do cop work right now, or else they wouldn't be on leave. It makes no sense to pay these guys if they aren't working.

You and I are doing just as much Fullerton cop work as these cops, yet nobody is paying us.

I've been fired a number of times, even though I broke no laws. Do I not have rights, too? Or are cop rights different from the rights the rest of us enjoy?

Cops need to remember that they are civilians, just like most of the rest of us.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 12, 2011 - 11:44am PT
The fact that they can't work their regularly sceduled shifts should be cause enough to fire them, and replace them with someone more capable.

They can always get other jobs. I always did. Being fired isn't the end of the world. In my case, being fired was always a good thing, because I always landed a better job in a better place.

I'm not suggesting they be fired as some form of punishment, but because their *skills* are no longer needed in Fullerton. If their skills were needed, they wouldn't be off on leave today.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 12, 2011 - 11:59am PT
Maybe if they cooperate with the investigation.

But I've heard they won't even tell their supervisors exactly what they did while they were on-the-clock. That would get anybody else anywhere else fired immediately.
Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
Aug 12, 2011 - 11:59am PT
pig pig pig there are too many left to do as they please. I know Ive been beatin with no charge but they came up with there own to cover there ass.I got a dangeres drug posesion charge that came from there bag of tricks.Police the police and pray for them as well I know it's a hard job I know good men in the force, it's the few gang like that need to be removed, the ego heads,and the self righteous bullys. peace and safty to all




johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 12, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
Fullerton Hires Outside Council.

None of them have the balls to address it. Fricking pathetic.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 12, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
Outside council = lack of responsibility. They are kicking the can down the road. Let the outside council spin it.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 12, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
Discipline the officers? No man, they should be sentenced and put in prison. They killed a man.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Aug 12, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
Oh brother, you really are lost...

Its likely the feds and state are looking into a criminal prosecution, and indictments may fly.

Obviously, the family is going to bring a civil action and ask for millions from taxpayers for their homeless son being killed.

Both things take lots of time, something you seem to be against because you concluded the cops f*#ked up and must report to prison and pay damages NOW. Take a deep breath, it seems likely everything you think would be just, will happen...
Tradboy

Social climber
Valley
Aug 12, 2011 - 05:04pm PT
It takes about 100k to train an LEO,

So $600k of training costs for these pigs at the scene and they show no restraint in beating a poor man to death.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 12, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
Atch-

What part of they killed a man do you not understand? Do you really think the actions were justified?
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Aug 12, 2011 - 05:12pm PT
How did you conclude that I thought their actions were justified?

I have never seen a video or any evidence that any amount of force was necessary. I don't know what happened in Fullerton, I only know how they play out after something like this happens.

Edit: btw, cops kill people all the time. In almost every case, there are ongoing civil and criminal investigations to determine if it was justified. Why should that not happen here?
WBraun

climber
Aug 12, 2011 - 05:47pm PT
Using a black steel d-cell flashlight

Sorry they are made out of aluminum ..... :-)
lars johansen

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Aug 12, 2011 - 06:23pm PT
As a retired FF/Paramedic I worked with cops every working day of my life. 90+% of them are good men and women doing a tough thankless job. I have ST friends [who I won't name] who are cops. Lets not tar the entire bunch for those few bad apples. Yes, those Fullerton cops should be called to account, and should pay the max penalty, real jail time.

Peace

lars
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Aug 12, 2011 - 07:44pm PT
So just a thought............let's say 6 citizens take down a cop, beat him to a pulp, he dies from his injuries. The cops gonna say the killing was justifiable? The cops gonna say, let's bring in an independent investigator to check this out? The cops gonna wait a few months to bring these people to justice with no retaliation on the street? The people gonna claim they were trained to handle these types of "situations" and get away with that excuse?
Cops got a tough job, but they go in knowing what their getting into and there is NO reason to kill an unarmed citizen, when there are 6 "trained" officers and one unarmed person. If a citizen does what they did to ANYONE, they go up on manslaughter or murder charges.
Peace
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 12, 2011 - 08:27pm PT
Do you not want findings that the officer(s) committed excessive force by an independent reviewer? Or you just want them to admit something bad happened now, without looking at all the evidence?


Why do they need to pay an independent? The evidence is there, but they hide it. Something bad did happen, and the Fullerton politicos are afraid to deal with it. So they hire an outside agency to take the heat and whitewash it some more. The evidence is there but they don't have the balls to take on the FPD and members of their own city counsel.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 13, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
That's a rather naive statement, pud.

Let's hope for your own sake, you don't run into 6 rogue cops. Could be a sure way to end up in ER.

(edit) it also demonstrates one of Riley's points - how some people (it has more consequences when they are people in authority, like cops) discriminate against how others look, if they have long hair, are unshaven, a bit crazy, wearing a turban, their perceived "class", race, whatever.... All of these things have little to do with the "other's" knowledge, who they are, and more importantly how they deserve to be treated.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 13, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
It's not.
I have.
I didn't.
reddirt

climber
PNW
Aug 14, 2011 - 01:20am PT


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9llvTQn8v-c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Wrong guy- he is still in a coma..

Look at the cop pull him around after a major cspine event...
Unreal......

"Christopher Harris is still in a bed, he is still paralyzed, he still can't talk, he still can't feed himself," he said.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/114579679.html
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 14, 2011 - 01:36am PT
Wyna-

One man pissing in the wind does not a rainstorm make. Give it a rest.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 14, 2011 - 01:48pm PT
Rox...The cops are tight with the DA's...They work together on a daily basis fighting crime..So when it comes time to bust one of their own , the wheels of justice come to a grinding halt... but i agree with the point you make....I've been run off the road several time by red-neck morons and performed citizen arrests with a sheriff as witness only to have the DA throw the case out due to lack of witnesses...Cyclist and homeless people are fair game....RJ
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 14, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
This might bring some more publicity to the situation:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/08/anonymous_fullerton_hack.php

Sat., Aug. 13 2011 at 11:27 PM

The hacker group Anonymous has announced that it would take down the Fullerton Police Department's website by noon today if the Orange County city didn't relent to its demands regarding the beating death of homeless Kelly Thomas.

The group announced "Operation Fullerton" Friday in an attempt to get the city and Orange County District Attorney to take action against the six cops who used deadly force against the 37-year-old after being called to the Fullerton Transportation Center July 5 based on reports that someone was breaking into cars.

Here's what Anonymous says it wants:

1) We demand the prosecution of Officers Jay Cicinelli, Kenton Hampton, Manny Ramos, Joe Wolfe, James Blatney, and anyone else involved in the gruesome beating, torture, and murder of Kelly Thomas.

2) We demand the immediate resignation of the Chief of Police in Fullerton, California.

3) We demand that the City of Fullerton immediately pay a lump sum settlement of no less than 5 million dollars to the legal survivors of Kelly Thomas.


ABC7 reported last night that the city was making preparations for the attack. Even so there was speculation that a well-organized move to take down the police department's website could affect its servers on a deeper level and even cause disruptions to the city's 911 system.

Anonymous:
"And you can expect Anonymous, we now officially launch "Operation Fullerton". We will begin dismantling the City of Fullerton's interwebz starting tomorrow at high Noon Pacific Time. We will remove from the world wide web the site belonging to the Fullerton Police Department located at http://www.ci.fullerton.ca.us/depts/police - and in addition we will Black Fax and E-Mail Bomb every inbox at the Fullerton City Police Department. This cyber action by Anonymous will be accompanied by a protest on the ground tomorrow."


The beating death has prompted outrage in the Orange County city, with some in the community calling for the police chief and some on the City Council to resign. The chief has taken a leave of absence.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 14, 2011 - 03:36pm PT
ROK said

When I took the pittance I accepted as payment for having my elbow dislocated and being punched up while in cuffs, and signed away my rights in exchange, I was a fool under the sway of a attorneys mouth, who kept pushing me to accept their puny offers. My case never went on any record, was never made public, and the officer got a f*#king wrist slap and may have gone out and killed the next guy.

Next time, it FIRST goes to trail, THEN I sue the piss out of the city, and F*#K the attorneys who play Monte Hall all day long with the rights of the American citizens.


Actually, you probably did the right thing. You have no idea what might have occurred. I have an aquaintence who used to serve, more than 20 years ago. He had some administrative action taken against against his medical license, and started talking about "getting even" with the medical director for the state. He'd already used his contacts to get his home address, and he was telling me that he could arrange for him to get a ticket every week for the rest of his life.

That was for a minor irritation, in the current age, against an upstanding member of the community, an agent of the State. Imagine what might have happened to just an average joe? You might have been found in a dumpster. With your elbow broken. With everything broken. With your back broken. With no eyes to identify anyone. Your attorney may have fully have understood this.

You may have narrowly avoided the great void, gotten a little money for your trouble, and failed being the ultimate fool.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 14, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
Riley - another fun topic to look into is the increasing professionalization of policing over time. It used to be worse - not that it's perfect now. The days of old are toe-curling.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 14, 2011 - 07:46pm PT
he said he has had a few brushes of how eye and didn't die?

huh?
jbaker

Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
Aug 14, 2011 - 08:53pm PT
We've got an online action up at http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/831/252/478/
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 14, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
Wyna-

For the most part I agree with you. I started this thread and am as passionate about it as you are. But damn, man you are making me feel I should not have. So much anger and hate you are spewing.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 14, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
Rox-

I think his anger and hate is detracting from his logic.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 14, 2011 - 09:23pm PT
Rox-

Sometimes stating a cold and rational arguement is better than being over the top with vitrial, hate and anger.
WBraun

climber
Aug 14, 2011 - 10:10pm PT
LOL yeah you tell em Riley.

johntp you ever get the shi't kicked out of you by a gang of thugs?

Bet not.

When I was living in the worst part of Chicago I got my ass beaten by the bigger kids weekly. They'd try shake you down and take your money or your bike and you'd have fight them off even though it's a losing battle.

If you didn't fight your bike is gone for sure although your money is always taken and you'd also be known on the street as a pussy and game for anyone.

So getting beat up is better than losing your bike.

What's got to do with this Death In Fullerton sh'it? ...... nothing! and then some!

Just giving you sh'it on Riley's behalf ....

:-)

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 14, 2011 - 10:13pm PT
Werner-

You know, I was just thinking that same thing. Never saw a point in engaging with morons unless the life of a loved one was at risk.
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Aug 15, 2011 - 11:52am PT
Interesting and related story...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/anonymous-hackers-bart-fullerton-police.html

kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 15, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
^^ coz, I did on my machine. try the script here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1564638/Supertopo-Killfile-Updated

makes the Taco a LOT more readable.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 17, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/i-phone-video-proves-officers-arrested-wrong-man-fullerton-police-admit.html

More proof of how corrupt the Fullerton Police Department is.

If the DA weren't buddy-buddy with them, he should consider bringing charges:
 Assault and Battery
 Kidnapping
 Obstruction of Justice
 Perjury

What is really outrageous about this, is that this was well-known for a year. The tape has been on youtube. But the corrupt Fullerton Police Department together with a corrupt and incompetent DA persisted in taking to trial.

Now, because of the outrageous from this and the homicide of Kelly Thomas, they are launching an "internal investigation" into how the "mistake" occurred.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 17, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
One of the officers involved in the homicide of Kelly Thomas was also involved in the attack last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYxkU-oNPw4
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 17, 2011 - 07:45pm PT
GC,
you are really on this.

How close do you live to this place?
(not that I haven't seen cops misbehave in other states)
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 17, 2011 - 08:39pm PT
Piton Ron, I never set foot in the place. All I knew about it before was that it's Lynne Hill's hometown. But I get most of my Calif news from the Los Angeles Times web site because it's better than the Chron or any other Calif paper. The LA Times has covered it quite a bit and I googled up other stuff. These police misconduct threads tend to draw me in like horseshit brings in flies...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 17, 2011 - 08:41pm PT
One day I was on this conference call. My attendance was mandatory but I was for that call a listener only, a non-contributor.

It was a cacaphony of voices, a babble of languages, all arguing and trying to talk over one another. And it went on and on and on....

I had to take a leak so I got up, left the phone there, and went and did my business. Came back, picked up the phone - more of the same, no one noticed I was gone.

It's the same way here Dingus. Go away and no one will even notice, not even you.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 18, 2011 - 11:43am PT
More details on Fullerton PD misconduct, from the front page of the LA Times.

After this, it's no surprise that the Fullerton cops haven't released the video of their assault on Kelly Thomas, and that officers watched it to write their reports.



Fullerton Police Department launches investigation into how it arrested the wrong man during a chaotic scene caught on a cellphone camera a year ago.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0818-fullerton-20110818,0,1816517.story

David Borsari, who represented Mam in the trial, said the cellphone video Mam shot that Oct. 23 night ultimately saved him at trial.

"It contradicted the police reports and testimony of the officers in every way," he said. "The video proved what they said wasn't true."
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 20, 2011 - 03:40pm PT
Fullerton police sued over wrongful 2010 arrest
August 19, 2011

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/fullerton-police-lawsuit.html
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 20, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
My uncle was accosted by the Culver City pigs...The car he sold had accumulated lots of parking tickets by the new owner who had failed to register it...The cops came to arrest uncle Henry who was sitting down to dinner after a hard days work...Henry asked for permission to finish his dinner before being taken to jail... the officers refused...What the bully pigs didn't know was that Henry, at 6 foot 6 , was a contender for the heavy weight title in the early 60's who had come within one fight of squaring off with Cassious Clay...They would not let him eat his supper and grabbed his hands to pull him off the couch...That was a bad idea as Hank threw both cops on the floor..when they came to they retreated outside and called for backup...Hank called his manager who then called his lawyer and threatened to sue for false arrest..This happened again not too long after proving that Cops aint that smart ...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 20, 2011 - 08:29pm PT
Talk about "when pigs fly" (or would that be "float like a butterfly. Sting like a gnat.")

Who is Cassious Clay?



edit ; Fatty, spelling alert
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 22, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
hey there all, say, since many folks had been following this...

i just saw this new news story:


http://news.yahoo.com/cops-increasingly-under-siege-homeless-death-091743663.html


S.Leeper

Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
Aug 24, 2011 - 01:00am PT
looks like a little reverse brutality:

http://www.fark.com/vidplayer/6503020
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 30, 2011 - 11:53am PT
http://www.rcfp.org/newsitems/index.php?i=12000

filming police protected by first amendment...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 30, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
Good news for a change.

I'll have to remember that. The Gilk case, Boston, federal appellate court.
the_don

Trad climber
Somerville, MA
Aug 30, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
Will a ruling by the First Circuit be binding in states that are under the jurisdiction of another circuit? Certainly not if the other Circuit has issued a contradictory decision, but what if it hasn't addressed the issue?

Lawyers???
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 30, 2011 - 02:53pm PT
Will a ruling by the First Circuit be binding in states that are under the jurisdiction of another circuit? Certainly not if the other Circuit has issued a contradictory decision, but what if it hasn't addressed the issue?

Lawyers???

No, a ruling by a federal court of appeals would not be binding in a jurisdiction covered by a different court of appeals, regardless of whether that different court of appeals has addressed the issue. (A decision is generally only "binding" if it is made by a court that has the power to reverse--there may be some rare exceptions not relevant here such as the interplay between state and federal courts.) It could be considered to be persuasive, and would certainly be cited by the lawyers arguing the case.

I just skimmed the news account cited by Crimper--from that skimming, it appears that no only did the court find that recording was protected by the First Amendment, but that the right was "well settled." That suggests that there aren't any contradictory decisions, but I certainly don't know that for a fact.

Interesting stuff--I am a lawyer but my "day job" doesn't generally involved constitutional issues and so I don't have a meaningful professional opinion on this. My personal, slightly informed view, however, is that cops arresting people who film them in public places is unconstitutional for obvious, common-sense reasons (which, believe it or not, often are legitimate arguments to make in con law). If it were a violation of wiretap laws to record people in public places, why don't cops arrest people who are filming non-cops in public places without their consent? That would be bizarre and basically unimaginable--why would the wiretap laws be applied differently to cops?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 8, 2011 - 04:37am PT
Medical files detail homeless Fullerton man's fatal injuries

Kelly Thomas' father hopes publicizing the extent of the injuries he suffered after a confrontation with Fullerton police in July may help speed up investigations in the case.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fullerton-20110908,0,5395720.story
http://documents.latimes.com/kelly-thomas-cause-of-death/

also
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Kelly-Thomas-Medical-Records.pdf

http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/tag/kelly-thomas-beating/
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