Discussion Topic |
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 31, 2011 - 05:55pm PT
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A lot of climbers have been complaining about the “limbing” of trees along approach trails to popular cliffs in Yosemite. Though probably not a new idea, there has been a flurry of activity in the last couple of years. This is illegal, against the wilderness ethic, draws negative attention to climbers, and is upsetting to many people.
Limbing definition: The brutal practice of cutting off branches from live trees just so they won’t touch humans in an offensive manner.
Last year someone sawed off several branches on the primary trail to the base of The Nose, significantly widening the trail. Tiny branches, and larger ones up to 6 inches in diameter and 15+ feet long were cut off.
A little later in the year it looked like the same thing had been done up along the base of the left side (Salathe Wall), especially near the start of Lurking Fear etc. The branches chopped off were left as conspicuously dried up/sawn off branches lining the side of the trail.
Now this year, the final bit of the approach to The Nose has seen even more limbing. One section of the trail is 15-20 feet wide, and numerous huge branches were chopped off and laying around. Then someone tried to burn the still green wood in an enormous bonfire pit. It appeared that someone had sawn off some branches in areas adjacent to the trail, perhaps to create staging areas in the shade??? The secondary approach trail to the base of The Nose, further right was also limbed. Other areas where recent limbing has occurred are the traverse ledge on Leaning Tower and the approach to Mt. Watkins.
Although the person or persons doing this work probably believed they were doing a public service, they were in fact offending what seems to be a solid majority of the community of users hiking in these areas. They were also committing a federal crime: 36 CFR 2.1 Preservation of natural, cultural and archeological resources. (1) Possessing, destroying, injuring, defacing, removing, digging, or disturbing from its natural state: (ii) Plants or the parts or products thereof.
Sometimes trailcrews maintain portions of trail using a saw on official and maintained trails through the wilderness, but it is usually done as minimally as possible, and in a way that it is unnoticeable or as unnoticeable as possible.
Approach trails to climbing areas are NOT official trails, they are use trails only, and generally speaking no maintenance is allowed. We have had several volunteer trail days over the years with climbers helping out to maintain small relatively invisible use trails.
Furthermore, many people go climbing for an adventure in nature, and they expect to have, and enjoy having a few branches slap across their face (or their partners face behind them). Some folks even enjoy an occasional full blown bushwack, or even if they don’t enjoy it, recognize it as part of a wilderness climbing experience (let’s not get into the discussion, again, of whether the walls of Yosemite Valley are REAL wilderness…that’s the goal, whether you personally believe it is being achieved or not.)
However, the reality of the situation is that there ARE trails to climbing areas. Recognizing this, the NPS has approved the maintenance of some of these trails in order to prevent trail-braiding (multiple trails to the same destination), erosion, etc. If you’d like to help we have had several volunteer trail days over the years with climbers helping out to maintain small relatively invisible use trails. The work done is to be as minimal as possible using the least amount of tools necessary, and no tools that are illegal in wilderness. No cuts have been approved. So, even though we can now do some rockwork to stabilize and protect the best trail to a cliff, and rehab unnecessary braided trails, we cannot cut branches off trees!!!
Thanks for reading, and please post up your opinions on this topic…surely this group will have something to say!
Yosemite Climbing Rangers (Jesse and Jake)
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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May 31, 2011 - 05:57pm PT
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Those F'n bastards!!!!! When I was a boy, we just broke off the offending limbs with our faces under a full drunken stagger. Please tell me this is still legal?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 05:58pm PT
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I'm against it, but surely there are bigger fish to fry.
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apogee
climber
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May 31, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
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I'm against it, and thank you for paying attention to it.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 31, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
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This is disturbing and hope it will stop. A few years ago I was approaching to top of El Cap from Big Oak Flat Road and noticed the same thing for miles on the trail. There had recently been a large scale film crew up there and it appeared the cuttings were done to clear way for the horses as almost all the cuttings were from about 6 to 7 feet above the ground. Can't say for sure this is what happened, but seemed strange all the cuttings where from that height. The trails are big enough to accommodate the perceived traffic with out modification...especially unauthorized modification!
Thanks for the post, hope it'll stop!
Peace
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 31, 2011 - 06:05pm PT
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At least with the trails up to the base of El Cap, climbers may not have been responsible.
Another side of this issue is the frequency with which some people (probably including climbers) burn "found" tree limbs in the Valley. That is, people rip limbs off trees on the Valley floor for fires and cause a lot of damage, which is equally contrary to the CFR. Overall, a main cause of damage to trees on the Valley floor may be firewood limbing.
Anyway, maybe I won't need my chainsaw at the FaceLift after all. Any self-respecting climber up here has one. They're an essential tool, and of course proof of manliness - the bigger, the better. At least that's what the NCCCA - National Canadian Climbers' Chainsaw Association - tells us. Although some even here get carried away with their 'forestry'.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 31, 2011 - 06:07pm PT
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"Limbing" trees at the base of El Cap??!! Good grief.
This might be a good case for punishment by the terms of Sharia law.
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Gene
climber
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May 31, 2011 - 06:10pm PT
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I'm against it, but surely there are bigger fish to fry.
Of course there are bigger fish to fry. (Was that a pun?)
It all comes down to access. LNT. Stealth. Minimum impact. We have a fairly loose rein in YV. Let's not screw it up, especially with something as stupid as trimming trees. DFU.
g
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
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There are always bigger fish to fry, but in this case protecting trees in a National Park is actually a high priority.
Russ,
We recently accidentally ripped off a few dead leafs with the portaledge you made for us because the ledge bag malfunctioned and did not close correctly. The ledge parts snagged a branch and pulled the poor leafs off. I thought about citing you right there, but now decided a warning is sufficient.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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May 31, 2011 - 06:21pm PT
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I carry a small chainsaw for rough bouldering approaches. fits in my pad really well, right along with a gas can.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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May 31, 2011 - 06:29pm PT
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I'm not one of those who believes you shouldn't cut down any trees just because you label a place "wilderness". I like the view at the tunnel turnout and didn't mind the trees that were cut down there. I also don't mind having trails, but do understand that they need to be handled wisely. In some places, to keep trails from becoming massive interwoven messes, hardening of the trail is necessary. That applies to officially approved trails, and unofficial trails.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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Jesse, I'll admit it's prolly bad form to cut down tree branches in a National Park. I get that.
I'm just saying it doesn't seem like a big deal. As long as the tree will survive. But it isn't a great precedent, do they really need to be chopped?
I dunno...
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Joe
Social climber
Santa Cruz
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May 31, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
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nicely stated Jesse. I assume you will put out a call for volunteers when you schedule your next trail days?
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 06:55pm PT
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Bluering,
When should we chop branches? Should we let every tourist come in here with their saws and blaze new trails. Or should we knight a few select climbers who have been gifted with a deeper understanding of which tree branches to lop off so not to be in the way of climbers hiking with a pig. Do we really need trails wider than our stock-use trails for Big Wall climbers?
We all realize that front-country developed areas, like Tunnel View or Curry Village for example, are very different than El Cap. There may be some folks here who would like to have a tent cabin at the base of El Cap (or like to joke about it to get me fired up), but fortunately it would take an act of congress to change the regulations on development in Yosemite Valley.
Jesse
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
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Rokjox,
We still have a fulltime sawyer cew taking out Hazard trees, and removing deadfall from official trails roads etc. Some of these guys are climbers. They do an awesome job, taking care of developed areas. I have no problem with that kind of saw use.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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May 31, 2011 - 07:04pm PT
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Jesse, you are very right. This is tricky thing to manage and starting with just asking ourselves the question is part of minimizing.
I'm not a trail-phobe, and I'm not interested in whole sale whacking. But there is definite value in making a good trail the first time, so as to prevent the inevitable braided trail or smashing or brush that comes when no clear path is available.
Is there space in the NPS legal and policy buttress to enable use-trail creation when we can identify braided trails will happen without a clear path? Maybe the Valley is a bad example to start with becuase much of the climbing is done off the valley floor where it the goal is preserving the wilderness designation.
I'm sure others can think of examples, but it seems like there must be a pro-active way to use trails to preserve wilderness much like we do with backpacking trails. Or does it always start out as use-trails, which then become 'managed'?
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:04pm PT
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Gene
climber
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May 31, 2011 - 07:06pm PT
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First and foremost, limbing is lame. Kind of a no brainer to me.
Second, who has the freaking time, energy or mind set to think that 'enhancing' the Nose approach is a worthy pursuit? Sounds the same as bolting a crack.
g
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:07pm PT
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 31, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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No - this sucks! Look at all the sawing done above sunnyside bench! That used to be a really nice area but someone decided to deforest it (prolly done by whoever put in bolted anchors there but at least they get removed you can't undo the deforestation). The valley is an established area - there are already trails - it's not like you're hiking through the jungles of Borneo...
Jesse,
That said it would be nice if you put in an official trail to the base of Reeds. I always see people heading up the wrong way and have to redirect them so they don't trundle the blocks right next to the road plus that trail changes every year basiclly based on the tracks in the snow early in the year...While you're at it maybe a toilet around Reeds too to since people can't seem to dig holes or burn/dispose of their toilet paper...
kev
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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May 31, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
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Heavily used and loved areas need to be well managed. In that way, recreationalists are accommodated, and the impact is contained.
Aren't there trail standards? When we have done work on trails, we had standards to follow that ensured that most recreational users would be happy to stay on trail, discouraged braiding and cutting off switchbacks. The standard I clearly remember using in the Northeast came from thr New England Trail conference. We were always encouraged to make the trail wide enough to accommodate a 4' x 8' piece of plywood traveling down the main corridor if possible. This also had the advantage of accommodating a litter being wheeled out if necessary, too. Natural materials were preferred. Any rocks used in construction needed to be a minimum of 250 pounds - or they would be easily displaced by hikers. Certain grades were encouraged, and too low a grade was discouraged as it inevitably led to shortcuts.
The complaint above suggests that the trail corridor is even bigger than that. on the other hand, the expectation that climbers want to feel branches whipping against their faces - not so sure that encourages people to stay on the beaten path at all hours of the day and night, while ferrying heavy gear, or holding their child's hand.
I love the work that has been done at a few places where I started to climb. The owners recognized that the climbers were always going to be coming, and a nice trail would actually keep the land in better shape than the goatpaths climbers will create when left to their own devices.
Defined paths, defined and reasonable parking lots, toilets in high traffic areas - this keeps our parks from turning into eroded landscapes filled with toilet tissue gardens.....
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:21pm PT
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 31, 2011 - 07:26pm PT
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One has to wonder how this went unnoticed. Kinda hard to do this quietly...
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:26pm PT
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 31, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
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Does the NPS watch that area for bandit camping, fires, etc?
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
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Yep.
But apparently not enough.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 31, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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Climbers with charcoal and lighter fluid? Weird.
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middle joe
Trad climber
oc
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May 31, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
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Limbing definition: The brutal practice of cutting off branches from live trees just so they won’t touch humans in an offensive manner.
Or you could go with this definition:
Pruning: A widely accepted horticultural practice which improves or maintains the health of trees.
While I don’t promote the indiscriminate limb cutting, pruning trees/bushes promotes conservation by not creating bypass trails, and sorry, but I will always value human safety above the limb of tree or bush.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 31, 2011 - 08:01pm PT
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and sorry, but I will always value human safety above the limb of tree or bush
And what does the chopping that we're talking about here have to do with human safety?
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Gene
climber
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May 31, 2011 - 08:05pm PT
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What about all them damn buzz worms that live along the approach trail and in the talus? Maybe the lopping shear crowd can make that situation more comfortable for me.
g
EDIT: Hard to get lost on this one, especially after the NPS uses its leaf blower on it.
Thousands of folk have reached the base without trail 'enhancement.' I seriously don't get hacking branches.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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May 31, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
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Middle Joe, thanks for providing the definition that sprang to mind for me. I'm not saying that indiscriminate limbing on climber approaches is an unmitigated good, but it doesn't necessarily hurt the vegetation. Of course, I live in the Northwest where the damned conifer weeds will spring up behind you and even a trail of breadcrumbs won't get you back to the trailhead.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 31, 2011 - 08:08pm PT
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OW and MJ, have you hiked this trail in the last 5 years? Ever?
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mctwisted
Social climber
superslacker city
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May 31, 2011 - 08:19pm PT
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jesse
sue and i were walking up right side of el cap this early spring when there was still some snow and i saw the size of the large limbs that were cut. i'm wondering if there might be some other culprit besides climbers. those are big limbs that would require a good size handsaw to hack off, and a lot of energy i might add, not what your average wall climber would be thinking about since he is about to go up and play on the big stone for a few days, and there seemed to be a fair amount of cuttings.
the lighter fluid also sounds more like hunter types more than climbers
very strange!
need to get werner up there with the nightvisionscope and kick some ass
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 31, 2011 - 08:22pm PT
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I would also think most climbers know fresh cut stuff doesn't burn worth a sh#t - instead it smokes...
EDIT - Sully, you beat me to it...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 31, 2011 - 08:41pm PT
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Jesse, thanks again. I would never think people would bother to put in all that work for meaningless 'enhancements.'
Imagine if they put that much effort into removing trash or volunteering at crag cleanups...
fire rings = way lame. I hope this silly ritual dies out.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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May 31, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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Yea the sherwins have recieved some serious limbing action . The "Hose" used to be a tight tree line, now it's a freeway. Actually more dangerous now, more of a avi path. Have kicked off some pretty good ones when wind loaded. I know the culprit. He has since moved on. Lame to limb.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
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Let's just send in the NPS boys to do a controlled burn and everyone is happy.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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May 31, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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Thanks Jesse - another vote for limbing being completely lame.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 31, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
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Limbs left on the trail. Burning green wood. Lighter Fluid 1/2 full???
Stupid is as stupid does.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 10:33pm PT
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Devil's Advocate time!
1 - Jesse, thanks for being a force for good and bringing issues like this up for discussion.
2 - Having said that... related to the "Wilderness Issue", but slightly different. Aren't there a crapload more trees in Yosemite Valley now than there were 200 years ago, before the moraine was dynamited to drain the swamp? Doesn't the NPS actively clear brush (e.g. young trees) in all of the major Valley meadows in order to maintain them as meadows?
(this doesn't mean that I'm for or against limbing, just food for thought! mostly, I think there are bigger fish to fry, like several others)
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
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I think its very weird and not sure who would bother to do this limbing at El Cap. I think the best thing we can do, is 1) not do it ourselves 2) call it out if we see it happening. I sort of feel like El Cap is a special space inhabited mostly by us climbers and it would be nice if we could police it ourselves to keep it a mostly ranger free zone. The food storage issues I have been seeing this month though make it seem pretty unlikely to me, as people are not doing the right thing. I have certainly wanted to limb occasionally (I would chose a certain tree on the E Ledges rappel) but would never do it. Unfortunately, with limbing, fires everywhere and massive food storage violations, its not looking too good for climbers taking care of our own space without NPS intervention.
HB
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 31, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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re cleo and corniss's posts:
yeah, there is clearly way more vegetation/fuel in the valley now than was probably the case in 1800. and yeah, personally, i'd like to see the place radically burned back to the point that it resembled the first written descriptions. but good luck with that, given the recent history with control burns.
hoist on our own petard: a century of agit-prop from an emergent USFS and NPS that "only YOU can prevent forest fires," helped to build public support for protected areas in ways that identified "protection" with "fire suppression." now we have a century's worth of fuel built up. which also means, than an unplanned or unlucky fire could go apocalypse.
so yeah, now we're reduced to worrying about lopping en route to the wilderness a hundred yards from the road. the reason this is a problem is not ecological, but sociological: both managers and the general public are anxious about fire. so having c4 lowballs free-lance landscape management is a really bad idea.
and let's be real: most climbers would cry like babies if a functional program of controlled burns and mechanical thinning put the valley off-limits to climbers during the season.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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May 31, 2011 - 10:58pm PT
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The park has started doing controlled burns in the valley. Because of fuel quantities and air quality controls, they are having a tough time getting it done. But they have started.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 31, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
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Must be a film crew, or another NPS trail crew.
I can't imagine any climber packing gear to limb out a trail.
Think about it??
Cleaning a new route is something you have to do: but limbing out trees to open a trail??????
I can't imagine any climber I have ever known: packing gear, and limbing out a trail.
Limbing definition: The brutal practice of cutting off branches from live trees just so they won’t touch humans in an offensive manner
Brutal practice? Where did you find that defintion? The "Dudly-do-right NPS PC Enforcement Manual"?
Look for a different culprit.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 31, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
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Pilgrims, it was obviously just one of the many many preparations for the Royal Wedding recently. Jake and Jesse---- The J's as we call them---- being in the Provinces, just didn't get the invite.
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mrbaksh
Trad climber
Fort Worth, TX
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May 31, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
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Maybe there should be an established/marked/tagged (with arrows and stuff) trail to the base of El Cap and the routes. That would significantly eliminate the need for tree-delimbing.
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Oxymoron
Big Wall climber
total Disarray
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May 31, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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It's not exactly France out there(yet).
Thank you for the heads up, Jesse.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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Maybe there should be an established/marked/tagged (with arrows and stuff) trail to the base of El Cap and the routes.
Are you out of your mind???
You can find the routes just about being blind folded.
Yeah ... it's that easy.
And .... you know who you are. The one who did all the cutting. You're not posting in this thread ..... being very very quiet.
But we know who you are ......
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 31, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
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FACT: FIFI EURHOES.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 31, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
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The trail branches are the first level of Gumby Filter.
What's next?
Fixed ropes stretching 1/3 of the way up El Cap?????
In my day, we'd imperil life and limb, lowering ourselves and our fat pigs to avoid the low branches. If we didn't duck down far enough, we'd get stuck in a hopeless Ent Trap. And our friends would have to come to the rescue.
Like camels passing through the Jerusalem gate known as the Eye Of The Needle, we'd get all the way down on our knees, and shuffle along until all clear, then struggle like hell to get back up on our feet. And then do it again. And again. And again.
Sawing branches off is for fags, wimps, pussies, poseurs and senile old ladies. And, for hill-billy schnitheads just off the Greyhound Bus from Arky-Saw.
EDIT:
Just for the record, I have a 42-inch bow saw that can easily take off a 6" live oak branch in fewer than thirty seconds. With even a crude saw like mine, taking off big branches is easy enough for any moron.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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May 31, 2011 - 11:54pm PT
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Pikers.
If they were pros, they would have burned that stuff when the conditions were right.
Like the Big Meadow fire.
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mrbaksh
Trad climber
Fort Worth, TX
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May 31, 2011 - 11:59pm PT
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Goldberg: Yes, and Don't get a peptic ulcer
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mrbaksh
Trad climber
Fort Worth, TX
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Tom: That's to much...maybe 1/10th, atleast on the Nose
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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To me this doesn't add up. Somehow they did it completely invisibly, over and over? Plus leaving "rings" and scorched ground and vegetation? And now the authorities are selling us this "likely story" of ordinary humans being responsible? I wasn't born yesterday.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Ok, ok.....
But what about damming and diverting rivers?
Who's the forest service feel about that?
I can put in some fish ladders, maybe, later, but that will be after the EIR has cleared the proper channels.
Cheers.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Tom: That's to much...maybe 1/10th, atleast on the Nose
FakeBlast goes about 1/3 of the way up, to Heart Ledge and Mammoth Terraces.
After considering what sort of idiot pyros would try burning freshly cut green wood, I am reminded of something the late, great Sam Kinneson said:
You know, as we were hauling all this food out here, though the endless desert, it sorta occurred to us that maybe there wouldn't be world hunger, if you people would live where the food is!
And then it occurred to me: the idiot pyros have never seen a real tree. They don't know green wood doesn't burn.
The idiot pyros come from the desert.
This is doubly true because America's Villians de Jour are Muslims: sand-dwelling lunatics. They must be the ones terrorizing our National Trails.
Either that, or it's the Brits. They cut the last of their trees down under Henry VIII.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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the "original state" of the Valley is not known to us, the written descriptions about the way things were describe the state of the Valley as managed by the indigenous people, prior to their occupancy the Valley could have been very different...
...it is perhaps something that could be studied, but rather difficult to track the changes of the flora over time.
Which brings up the point about managing wilderness, an oxymoronic combination of words. We manage Yosemite National Park as a notional wilderness, and the authority to implement this notion rests with the NPS and a consensus of visitors.
Exactly how do you distinguish between a climber use trail and a trail built and maintained for horse packing into the back country? at least in terms of "wilderness experience?" If the climbers are by far and away the majority of the people who move around at the base of El Capitan, who's sensibilities regarding "wilderness experience" are compromised?
I recently climbed through the mayhem caused by falling rock on the RORP, and all along the base of Reed's is evidence of minor rock fall, tree limbs torn off trees, trees uprooted, stumps left of trees I remember from 10 years ago, that is minor compared to the huge chunk of rock that fell off of Last Resort Cliff, which took out an equally huge swath of forest.
I am not saying that sawing trees in the Valley should be condoned, but the NPS has done it to keep sight lines open and make the park attractive to visitors, in the roads it has cleared and maintained as well as chosen trails, turn outs, etc. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that climbers had done it, but commercial concerns that have come into the Valley with the intent of completing some project (e.g. filming) have been known to interpret some restrictions "liberally" when obstructed in pursuit of their goals. It has been a while since I've seen climbers with charcoal and lighter fluid around in the Valley...
There are many other places which have been limbed, the Old Oak Flat Road seems to get a "hair cut" to keep it open, who rides mountain bikes along that road? isn't it citable? What makes that acceptable? there certainly aren't a hell of a lot of climbers up there, but the road sure keeps trim.
Hopefully climbers will intervene when someone is doing something stupid like limbing trees, and hopefully it won't be climbers doing the limbing.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Mmm... I prefer to hang off of a portal ledge than sit around a charcoal fire. I wonder who's getting so creative and... If they even own a climbing rack.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Wow. Dislike.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2011 - 01:45am PT
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A few thoughts:
The "brutal practice" definition of limbing=another failed attempt by me at humor...didn't think so many people would have an issue with that definition. Sorry about that, pruning might be a better word. At least everyone understands what we are talking about.
Ed,
If we (as a culture, nation, etc.) did not follow through with the dreams of John Muir and Aldo Leopold and create designated Wilderness...it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think about what may have become. You are right to say that managed wilderness is an oxymoron. Unfortunately we no longer have the luxury of having unmanaged-Wilderness and actually have healthy and diverse populations of animals and plants. Maybe in the ANWR, that is about the closest thing we have to the ideal definiton. In the meantime we will try to do our best to preserve the Wilderness Character of what exists.
Dan McTwisted and others, Like Werner and other local climbers who I've talked to, we're pretty sure we know who did this. The person I'm thinking of is a climber. These ARE huge branches, another reason this is so disturbing.
The fire burning the limbs, and the charcoal with lighter fluid were probably other people, and maybe/hopefully not climbers. Part of my point showing those photos, is that one thing can lead to the next. Someone who is honestly trying to help maintain trails in the way they think is best goes out and cuts some branches, they decide that this should be the norm and start doing this on several approaches. Then other people come by want to have a good time, and wow look someone cut us some fire wood. The green branches don't burn so they send Billy-joe-bob back to the truck to get the charcoal and lighter fluid.
Jesse
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2011 - 01:59am PT
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HB,
Thanks for your restraint on the East Ledges:) I've also been in situations where a branch or a tree is right in the way of where I want to climb or belay or hike. Also thanks for pointing out that climbers usually self police. I think that is the way to go on this situation as well. Communicate to your friends that this is not an alright practice. Not everyone agrees, but most climbers agree that they don't want to see rangers patrolling the base of El Cap more frequently.
The idea of restraint is part of what kicked off the clean climbing revolution. Yes we can pound a pin in the crack and it was easier at the time, but we learned that friends and stoppers and other widgets work just as well in most cases, and are way easier/faster to use. Same goes for bolts, yes we can drill a bolt, but we can also place gear or run it out.
In Yosemite there is almost always an easy way to walk around a large tree branch without cutting it off.
Jesse
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MBrown
Big Wall climber
Los Angeles, CA
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The fire ring was from a group of DNC employees partying up there
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Thanks, Jesse. I noticed the widening of the Nose approach trail last year and it bothered me.
It looked to me like part of the reason it was done was to find more flat dirt to hike on, instead of the streambed which the trail had become.
The streambed with loose small rocks could be a bit tough on ankles with a heavy load.
Although it seems likely to lead to a wider set of eroded trails.
The ultimate solution might be if the trail someday became an official trail, to route it away from the drainage path to something less subject to water erosion.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I would expand on my previous remarks and those of Clint's, to wit: there should be a real trail leading to the southeast and the southwest base of El Cap. The ad hoc trail leading to the southwest side is the subject to severe erosion over the years and has many variations leading hither and yon. There are also many trails leading up to the popular big-wall routes starting on both sides, including the tat-rope on the fourth class slabs to Lurking Fear and beyond, the trail beyond being very loose.
A real trail would be a big improvement to the approaches. It would direct everyone onto a single approach, and could be managed.
The only other way is to keep climbers off those routes.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Got news for you Jesse,
the "clean climbing revolution" is a scam, a hustle meant to flim flam land managers.
Climbers do what is easiest.
Clean anchors are the easiest to use on free routes, but when it comes to aid walls, even if it has been proven that a route goes without further hammering, climbers will continue to degrade the resource with hammers if they perceive it as easier.
They will even alter the route to the point that it can no longer be done hammerless.
Climbers talk a good game, but look at what they DO.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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So we've agreed that at the FaceLift, FatTrad will waterboard the usual suspects?
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Carbunkel
Gym climber
hellonearth
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Just for the record, I have a 42-inch bow saw that can easily take off a 6" live oak branch in fewer than thirty seconds. With even a crude saw like mine, taking off big branches is easy enough for any moron.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Ha! So where were you last Tuesday?
We do need an official trail that would limit impact, create an easier approach, be manageable etc. I was out there last fall and while sitting on a rock way off the beaten path, I was trying to draw the mountain when several random hikers (none were climbers) bumped into me. People are crawling all over that place and... Heck, none who found me were climbers since those folks take the shortest direct path. It's the curious that go exploring way off route.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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That "trail" is a mess, a spiderweb of social switchbacks, last-minute poopies, stashed bags, and bear habitat.
Agreed: a trail (official or social) that sees so much use needs maintenance, erosion control, and (dare I say) some planning. If the NPS could be convinced that the descent from Cathedral Peak could be worked on, officially, by NPS trail crews, methinks the same argument(s) could be employed to justify some work on the trail up to and left of the Nose.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2011 - 02:31pm PT
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Thanks all for the constructive commentary,
I'll probably start another thread on climber trail work in general but here are some initial thoughts.
I am working with our Trail Crew and Restoration Crew on compliance/planning and a grant proposal to the Yosemite Conservancy (formerly the Yosemite Fund) to work on climber trails and staging areas.
The climber trails will not be made into "official" trails as part of the National Trails System. The primary interest in managing these trails is to reduce the associated impacts of approach/descent trails, and the base of climbs. We'll restore extra or redundant legs of trails, and do some minimal rockwork, work on drainage, checks, etc. The trails will be minimally wide and often unmarked. We don't want to encourage hundreds of non-climbing visitors to hike up to the base of El Cap, Washington Column etc (think about Yosemite Falls, Bridalveil, or Vernal Fall footbridge). The more adventurous will find their way, and they are all, of course, welcome. In some places we will leave "biner" posts like we have already on other approaches.
We will seek the climbing community's feedback on your priorities.
The Cathedral Peak trail delineation opened up some new possibilities of cooperation with Trails and Restoration on climber trails, and I think the result will be more sustainable climber use trails. Hopefully we'll get the funding, but at any rate there will be several volunteer days where you guys can all help out. I'd love to meet and work with any of you regardless of your opinions of me and the NPS in general. We'll be starting on Pat and Jack's in June, and some other trail maintenance days will be a part of this year's Facelift.
In the meantime checkout our work from last fall at Lower Cathedral.
Thanks again,
Jesse
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mctwisted
Social climber
superslacker city
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sounds good jesse, count me in for pat and jack cliff
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Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
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Thanks Jesse for bringing this to everyone's attention. Chopping a 6" diameter 15' long branch off a tree is offensive.
Ciao,
Doug
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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Thumbs up Jesse! I would love to volunteer if I can have free camping at Yellow Pines. :) Might even be able to convince the husband to keep his feet on the ground for a day.
AFS
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Joe
Social climber
Santa Cruz
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good job Jesse balancing environmental and user group needs. would like to
check out the work at Lower Cathedral, as you suggest, but don't want to risk getting hit by low lying branches...maybe you can post photos, I really don't want to get dirty...
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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wallrat
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Sounds like it's time for the brownshorts to finally and once-and-for-all ban all climbing in the Ditch. That'll stop that limbing.
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ian harlen
Mountain climber
California
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Thanks for the thoughtful post. 2 points: illegal limbing and burning does damage our reputation, and as most of you know, over the years climbing has received widely varying degrees of support from YNP. Secondly, these actions fly in the face of the respect we should feel for the land we climb in, and it sets a poor example for others. I hate the thought that this "clearing the way" ethic might be exported to other, more sensitive habitats, for instance up to the Gates of the Arctic, where less resilient, and more important as nesting habitat dwarf willow and birch may be found "cluttering up" a belay stance?
Thanks for your consideration.
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finbrain
Boulder climber
Clearwater
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Heck, if Mr. Bigwall cannot handle having a few branches get in his way, does that mean he's going to bolt his way to the top and screw nature? Then instead of cutting out the "obstruction", GO HOME and think about that climbers are out there for the wilderness experience.
INEXCUSABLE!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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lame
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Jun 10, 2011 - 03:58pm PT
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Jesse. Thanks for posting this thread. Just now catching up on my reading. I appreciate this and all the threads you have provide as the voice of NPS management in the climbing community. Too many people wish to polarize this relationship. It's good to have someone like you with the guts and good communication skills to wade into the fray and take the crap.
The rules are there for good reason.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Jun 11, 2011 - 07:59pm PT
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EveryBody knows it's Nanook who's cutting the limbs and power drilling on El Cap, Jesse just didn't want to call him out. . .
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Gene
climber
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Jun 14, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
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Chongo is tailor made
Nice
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jun 14, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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FACT: As long as you all get the main point which is this: don't so much as trim a twig that will grow right back with your fingernail tweezers. It's still fine for the national park service to bulldoze the trees, blow up the boulders and pave over half the F*ing park when and where they want. They CAN and will.
God forbid anyone not learn their place in the new society. Don't step out of line or the man will squash you back in your place.
Now all you Taco heads straighten the F* up, shut yur mouths and get back in line.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 14, 2011 - 07:06pm PT
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couchmaster,
Stay on that couch dude and work thru those anger issues. While I think most would agree that NPS maintenance can be heavy handed, that's a completely separate issue.
I thank Jesse for his post and hope the practice stops.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 14, 2011 - 07:29pm PT
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couch is right on!
Not to condone abuse by climbers, but the NPS has a poor record of treading lightly.
You should see all the totally unnecessary bolts (placed with a power drill of course) that the Zion clusterphuque squad have drilled.
Sometimes a well crafted trail preserves resources.
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scoob
Mountain climber
auburn, ca
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Jun 17, 2011 - 02:21am PT
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Let me compare and contrast/jesus and spiderman...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 17, 2011 - 03:21am PT
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Let us never forget that there was serious consideration given to putting a
tram to the top of Half Dome. Of course, no trees would have been harmed
by doing so.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jun 17, 2011 - 09:47am PT
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couchmaster,
Stay on that couch dude and work thru those anger issues
Not angry, just a tad tongue in cheek over the massive NPS hypocrisy. This trimming is minor bullsh#t. It will grow back. Oh, it's wrong, no doubt, but tiny in comparison to what the officials do. I still like Hollyclimbers take. She walked by, saw this(not a pun Ron:-) scene happening, and essentially said "What are you doing dumbass?...Well knock it off."
Take care all
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 17, 2011 - 12:23pm PT
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Wouldn't the tram have been to Glacier Point?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 17, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
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Sentinel, Mighty Anders. And supported by none other than Ansel Adams.
And on another subject I am wondering if the de-limbing was caused by a film crew trying to set up the trail for a walking camera...
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rangerdanger
Mountain climber
john muir hotel
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Jun 18, 2011 - 04:10am PT
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So if Jesse knew all along who it was, it seems to me that he just wants to serve out his own justice by hoping that at some point someone would snitch (Bulwinkle, Matt) him out on this thread as punishment.
Stay classy guys
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 18, 2011 - 06:29am PT
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When the Park Service wants to put in parking lots, bridges, widen roads, etc. they have to submit a plan that is open to comments, and their plans can be fought (albeit not always successfully).
But if one person can slink around making Yosemite into his vision of an ornamental Japanese garden--with bonsai trees, bivy terraces and "friendlier" routes with extra power-drilled bolts--who gets to have their say about it, and what's to stop everyone from having a go at "perfecting" Yosemite?
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jun 18, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
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I was actually thinking about this thread while doing the north dome descent recently... Yes there are some limbed trees, but not many. There were plenty of haul bag toppling limbs in place as well. I was wondering who besides dead tired climbers struggling down that "trail" would ever see those?
I can understand concerns about areas where the "normal public" is likely to come across some impacts that could have been made by climbers... but when I look at it from that perspective, I start thinking about all the buses, the loud motorcycles rumbling through the valley unchecked (I really dislike these, fyi.) the inadequate tent camping situation in the valley and on and on. When I think about all those negatives that over time have become part of an accepted, encroaching degradation of the wilderness experience in the Valley, a few limbed trees seems a tad trite to me.
I would also like to voice my support for improved access trails to some route bases. It's no secret that over time these are one of the worst impacts climbers can have on an area and improving them instead of allowing them to become ad hoc drainage routes is a good move and one that climbers (me included) should be willing to put in some sweat equity to help maintain access.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jun 18, 2011 - 06:43pm PT
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"Managed Park" does not a wilderness make...
Don't cut 'em out of boredom or respite, let GAIA (and her human foot tramplers) decide the fate of fauna.
Taking a saw into a National Park?
Is that technically even "Legal?
If they/saws are allowed in by the Park regulations (back country hiking/back-packing, etc...) , then the OP seems to be in what is called "Slippery Slope" Country.
Simple matter, but too dramatic to not read...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jun 19, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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Dingus: Right. Let nothing stand in the way of your hyperbole, branches included.
Thats the 2nd time you've said that out of context. hyperbole means exaggeration. I wasn't exaggerating. I once watched a Yos ranger on tv talk about the destructiveness of bolts, while literally, within a 1/4 mile they were in fact paving a new road, where in boulders were leveled and all kinds of vegetation flattened. I see this in actuality all of the time.
Not hyperbole at all. Git yerself a new word der Dingus. If all you can do is attack me, and not even approach discussing what I say or infer, then you obviously have no arrangement to make.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Jun 19, 2011 - 11:31am PT
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I'm with Rokjox in his post above. (Wow, I agree with Rokjox!)
The Valley is a beautiful place that needs to be an attraction for as many people as possible while maintaining as much natural beauty as possible. In other words, I think the management license should go to Disney. They are really good at keeping everything clean and showing a good time to huge crowds.
For a wilderness experience, you have to hike in. For example - the Clark Range in SE Yosemite - very few trails, plenty of clean rock, total wilderness. You could go in there and not see another soul for the entire summer.
I would like to see the roadways taken out and the Valley accesses by a super silent double monorail with elevated people movers. The wildlife, deer, bear, bison, whatever, neatly stocked and managed as tourists glide through with a silent hiss just slightly below treetop level.
Of course the climbers would get to be part of the tourist action and a certain number could be sponsored by the tourist dollars.
And in that utopia future, you would still not get to cut branches around the base of climbs or leave fire rings on top of El Cap.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jun 19, 2011 - 09:10pm PT
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Seems like a little "trail maintenance" on the North Dome gully descent would go a long ways to preserving it and the surrounding terrain, rather then allowing the massive erosion and multiple pathways that is currently has due to no trail maintenance at all. Just a simple observation
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:05pm PT
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NDG descent?
and that has WHAT to do with tree limbs being cut?
(not to mention, not an easy place to get a saw into!)
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Jun 20, 2011 - 12:26am PT
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Also, not a place where one would be that useful...certainly not needed.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Jun 20, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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Any place where use trails start to impact the area, like N. Dome Gully, it's obvious that management should devote resources.
It's an important part of improving access while lowering impact.
(this statement needs to be incorporated into the NPS mission)
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rangerdanger
Mountain climber
john muir hotel
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Jun 20, 2011 - 09:09pm PT
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Rockjox, don't bring logic or history into this thread it will ruin their witch hunt.
And yeah, the old trail up to the base of the nose is an eroded washed out POS. The new one is way better.
It would have been nice If the park service could have made the new trail and left the old one to restoration but they are to busy putting the cables back up on H.D. building new curbs for the road, and pavilions for the shuttle.
And WTF does power drilling have to do with limbing? Maybe Matt and Bullwinkle can start another thread and provide us with the long list of other climbers that have PD on el cap.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jun 21, 2011 - 10:04am PT
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Nice rangerdanger.
....I can understand concerns about areas where the "normal public" is likely to come across some impacts that could have been made by climbers... but when I look at it from that perspective, I start thinking about all the buses, the loud motorcycles rumbling through the valley unchecked (I really dislike these, fyi.) the inadequate tent camping situation in the valley and on and on. When I think about all those negatives that over time have become part of an accepted, encroaching degradation of the wilderness experience in the Valley, a few limbed trees seems a tad trite to me.
Thats pretty much a great summation and my thoughts exactly. However, you are breaking the law with your fingernail clippers snapping off a twig, while all that is fine and dandy. [/on and on rant rant rant LOL]
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jun 21, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
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Oh no..........Ranger Goober(Gerber) has found another thread to pollute.
Peace
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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Jun 22, 2011 - 12:17am PT
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If you believe what has been in put front of you. You are the fool.
There must be more to the story.
I have been watching this story being told by Jessie.
Not a word about the So. Cal guy who has been lost for the past 4 days.
Jesse spending three days on top of El Cap, cleaning Sh_t.
What up's
mmm
Jesse, where is.................HE
Leo is not your friend. FOOL
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 25, 2011 - 11:04pm PT
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Yosemite plans to remove a few (thousand) trees to improve the views. Bravo!!
No one will be complaining once its done. Can't imagine a tourist getting angry about having a better view of the cliffs and waterfalls.
http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_18539564
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 26, 2011 - 01:15am PT
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it's about time
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Jul 26, 2011 - 01:20am PT
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Some of those trees even block the views of climbs. Perhaps they should clear the forest so people can take pictures of me sending pitch 4 of The Nutcracker. Who wouldn't want to see that.
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Rainman0915
Trad climber
California
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Jul 26, 2011 - 01:55am PT
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As far as the fire ring goes i heard the employees have been having parties at the base of el cap and cutting and burning wood from the nearby area.
as for the rest of the cutting, i think that its far better to deal with a few stray branches once in a while then create even more problems with NPS/rangers
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 26, 2011 - 02:05am PT
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selling "yosemite valley" timber could fund the park for a generation me thinks.
the Park will probably just lob the logs to the nearest mill and make toothpicks.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jul 26, 2011 - 03:48am PT
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I have no love for the NPS LEOs, and yes the Yos NPS caters to the concession and tourists, but . . .
I suppose we should really just let everybody do as they think best . . .
For instance, a lot of people believe that grafitti is alright, a kind of free speech--let's invite the inner city youth into Yosemite and encourage them to improve it as they see fit.
If you have a license to handle explosives--well just go ahead and make your own stairway up to the Devil's Bathtubs.
If you work in construction and have access to a jackhammer I'm sure you can do a better likeness of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh than that of those old dead guys on Mt. Rushmore.
Or, hey, even better if you operate a bulldozer or grader, you could just go ahead and make your own road up to the base of El Cap so you don't have to get out of your car next time.
And I'm sure we all agree that Yosemite would be much better if every mo fo with a chainsaw could just do whatever they think will improve their experience . . .
Or are climbers just so much more enlightened that only they should be able to do whatever the fvck they want?
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jul 26, 2011 - 04:11am PT
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E is trying to make things more comfortable and convenient for you. But you all are getting focused on another regrettable problem--the NPS and tourists--one doesn't make the other one right, even though the NPS has a greater impact; yet if everyone could do as E is doing I think they could do much more harm. But the apologists or thread-drifters are giving tacit approval to just that
He's trundled rocks from ledges to make bivies "better", he's levelled and terraced areas of the base of El Cap for the same reason, he's power-drilled 3/8" bolts to replace dowels and rivets for the same reason, and now he--as usual during the winter so he won't be caught--is cutting branches to re-create Yosemite to his vision as a "better" place for us all.
Damn those Manzanitas can scratch, why don't we ask E to pour some Roundup on all those fvckers.
The Yosemite experience has been Disneyfied enough by the park service for the tourists, but do you all really want someone, or hundreds of someones, out there gymnifying and Disneyfying your experience to what he thinks is best for you? Is climbing supposed to be convenient and comfortable?
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jstan
climber
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Jul 26, 2011 - 05:09am PT
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I think an essential factor is being missed when we ask why we can't do something but the NPS can.
There are a million of us.
There is only one NPS.
What the NPS does gets reviewed.
The million of us get reviewed only if we run into a ranger.
Do the math.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 29, 2011 - 09:09pm PT
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Limbing is problematic. Taking photos of it and putting them in the mag, more so.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 30, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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It's typical government craziness that makes it illegal to even slightly trim a branch, even with the tree is not harmed, when they will turn around and saw down over a thousand trees just to improve the views. I'm fine with them cutting the trees. I really dislike the needless control they seem to feel they need to exert over us and the hypocrisy like this that I see all of the time.
Dingus, what word was that you like to use again...and again? Hyperbole. Yes, you think this is more hyperbole from me?
"By Julie Cart, Los Angeles Times
July 29, 2011, 7:22 p.m.
Reporting from Yosemite National Park -- National parks tend to be a tree hugger's paradise. Layers of federal laws, strict park service rules and even the disapproving scowls from some visitors prohibit so much as driving a nail into a tree, much less cutting one down.
But it's getting a bit crowded in Yosemite, where more than a hundred years of prompt firefighting have allowed towering pines and cedars to clog the park's meadows and valleys. These days, you can barely see the granite for the trees.
That's about to change. Yosemite National Park officials say thousands of trees will be felled to preserve the iconic views of the park's waterfalls and the craggy faces of El Capitan and Half Dome. For the Record: This article incorrectly refers to Yosemite as the country's first national park. Yellowstone was the first national park. The project is part of Yosemite's Scenic Vista Management Plan, approved by the park service's regional office this week.
Chain saws will be fired up in the fall, said Supt. Don Neubacher, aimed mainly at ponderosa pines and incense cedars. Rare or ecologically sensitive trees such as California black oaks, sugar pines and white bark pines will be spared. None of the park's thousand-year-old sequoias will be cut, nor will any trees more than 130 years old.
In public meetings and in person, park officials and rangers have been making the case that their tree-cutting plan is biologically sound and aims to improve visitor enjoyment of the park's natural features. To that end, much of the thinning will be done along the park's roads and turnouts, where carloads of tourists pile out to snap pictures of Bridalveil or Yosemite falls.
Still, the public has let park officials know that there is something unseemly about the image of lumberjacks hewing mighty trees in the country's oldest national park.
Neubacher understands visitors' concerns about cutting trees in Yosemite, but says "this will create views for visitors, views that were here before."
Yosemite was set aside as the nation's first national park in part because of the magnificent, wall-to-wall vistas afforded by its open meadows. Painters and early landscape photographers captured what are now emblematic images of the West: broad valleys rimmed by granite cliffs with spilling waterfalls.
Those open valley floors were maintained first by Native Americans who regularly set fires to clear trees, or by blazes sparked by lightning. Travelers in the 19th century grazed their livestock in the Yosemite Valley and planted crops, relegating trees to the edges of the meadows.
When landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted prepared a report on the Yosemite region in 1865, he singled out the deep-cleft valleys for particular praise, calling the sight "the greatest glory of nature."
But the park service moves quickly to stamp out fires that might otherwise thin the stands of trees that spread their seedlings into meadows. Some of those saplings are now towering to 100 feet, spoiling the party for tourists seeking to immortalize their vacation with a postcard backdrop.
Officials here have been thinking about the sightline issue for some time. In 2009, the park analyzed 181 scenic views around Yosemite, excluding wilderness areas. The survey revealed that encroaching vegetation obscured the view at 28% of the sites and partially blocked it at 54% of them.
"We are managing the park for people," said Kevin McCardle, a park service historical architect who headed up the scenic vista team. "We have to create roads, we have to create parking lots, we have to create space for people. We are creating space for visitors to see the park."
Visitors on a recent day seemed mostly unaware of the park's plans to fell trees near meadows, roads and along some lakes — 93 sites in all. Gary Lockhart was striding briskly along a Yosemite Valley trail, carrying a tree limb as a walking stick. He said he hadn't heard of the new policy, but thought it was a good idea.
"I've been coming here since the '50s and I know what this used to look like. You used to be able to see from there," he said, waving his stick to one end of the valley, "to there."
"This valley was wide open," said Lockhart, who lives in Bakersfield. "This place is honeycombed with trails, but you'd never know because of the trees."
Of course, Half Dome, at 8,800 feet, is difficult to miss. But stands of pines gather at one end of a meadow along the Merced River, and at the far end trees clog the view of Yosemite Falls. And in some cases, a full view other well-known scenes may elude amateur photographers, especially as fast-growing conifers continue to fill in.
John Rienzie was resting on log bench, gazing across two lanes of a Yosemite summer traffic jam, enjoying the sight of the late-afternoon sun lingering on the crest of Half Dome. He pondered the policy for some time before saying he would agree "if there is a purpose to it."
After a moment, the New Yorker asked again why it was necessary. To improve the views for visitors, he was told.
He looked up quizzically, "If you can't see that mountain, " he said, stabbing a finger at the distant granite wall, "you need to have your glasses checked."
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 30, 2011 - 01:14am PT
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It is very strange about this limbing going on. Charcoal, boyscout juice? Lots of sawing? No way is that climebers. The Valley is becoming more vegetated if you look at its natural history. Everyone knows that proper pruning won't hurt the trees, but that doesn't warrant cutting limbs on climbing trails by knuckleheads.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jul 30, 2011 - 01:41am PT
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hey gerber-
yer kind of a dick.
just sayin.
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 30, 2011 - 01:51am PT
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That's a drag, Mike. There's a way to prune and then there's hacking and leaving a mess. The perp should be required to make amends. But what's with the charcoal in the forest? Was it the same guys?
munge, that is horrible for sure.
Gerb, with stretched resources, can't the climbing community help with the climbing trails? I'm glad the PS is focusing on the touron trails, with or without horses. They're getting the most traffic and need to be maintained. And horses are harder on trails than bikes. At least they used to be. Where's the trail crew equivalent to Face Lift? And aren't these Green jobs?
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jstan
climber
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Jul 30, 2011 - 02:15am PT
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The Forest and Park services clearly view volunteers as a real benefit and a connection to the people for whom they manage the areas. Mimi, I suspect neither of us has ever seen an interaction different from this.
I think safety can be an issue particularly when the volunteers are relatively inexperienced in handling tools. Furthermore if the group breaks into two parties there have to be at least a couple of people in the agency or very familiar with the agency's needs to keep things on track. All that said these interactions are hugely positive as seen by everyone.
After one has climbed for awhile, these efforts become more fun even than the climbing - I have found.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 30, 2011 - 08:04am PT
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Let me preface this by saying that I do not spend much times in national parks and am from the east where we have a sh#t ton of trees..
Show me a climber who claims to have never done any unoficial trail work and I will show either a liar or a lazy bum ;)
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Looks like the park will do a little trimming itself - - to the tune of 1000's of trees.
Given Jesses silence on this subject, we can probably assume he's just too damn busy running the chainsaw 24/7 to clear cut the 1000 and some odd trees to restore those all so important views for the folks.
God forbid any of us saw off a tiny branch that in no way disturbs the tree but which will stick the next fella walking that same path right in the eye. More bullshit from the government.
Hyperbole, hypocrisy and bureaucracy all in one thread.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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If you get a stick in your eye, it means you're not paying attention.
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