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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 29, 2011 - 04:05am PT
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This might be kind of remote but I had this cool old dude build me a scale model of the TCA Northstar that crashed into Slesse in December 1956 killing all 62 on board.
Eugene had to use parts from DC6 and Lancaster kits, shorten the fuselage and wings, carve and mold the correct Merlin engines and props and have special decals made to replicate the original markings on Jack Clarke's plane.
I think this might be the only model of the passenger version of this aircraft and I'm real pleased with how it turned out.
I'll try to get some better photos.
(Note the two B29s with Fat Man and Little Boy beside them)
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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May 29, 2011 - 04:17am PT
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what about a movie ...
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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May 29, 2011 - 04:23am PT
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chucks are still there too. i need to get up there for that classc North Ridge someday.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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May 29, 2011 - 09:19am PT
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DMT... Nice try with the ballard. I love the ballard of the Edmond Fitzgerald.
There was a tragic crush of two USMC Grumman F6F-5s on 10,064 ft Mt. Baldy on March 2, 1949. Both pilots were killed in the accident. Same planes that escourted George Bush over Chichi Jima in WWII. Easy to find models of the Helllcat at any hobby store, or the wreckage is still there to see.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2011 - 11:51am PT
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Eugene started work on the 1/72 model in October of last year and I took delivery of it a couple days ago. Eugene is a retired airline mechanic and a former member of the BCMC and was well acquainted with the story of the crash and many of the people involved in the search for and discovery of flight 810. This project was a labor of love for him and while his fee might appear sizable to some, was a veritable honorarium compared to his efforts.
I have had a fascination with Mt Slesse and the crash of flight 810 since my first trip there in winter with Don Serl and John Wittmayer back in 1980. We froze our asses off climbing the North Face Apron to the Notch in a 24 hour round trip push from our bivi.
I returned with Peder Ourom (that's Mighty's brother) and Joe Buszowski for a wild attempt on the yet unclimbed north coulour we dubbed "The Heart of Darkness" and was almost killed by icefall on a subsequent attempt.
Having had enough of Slesse in winter I third classed the NE Butress in 87 and after an initial attempt with Bary Blanchard, completed the first ascent of the east wall via the East Pillar with Greg Child in 93.
The climbing history of Slesse and the crash of flight 810 are to a degree, inseparable. Legend has it Fred Beckey never worked after visiting the mountain and climbing the NE Buttress because he found the missing money belt. Anyone who has visited the mountain can attest to seeing obvious bits of wreckage in the basin below the east face and the leftover remnants still welded into the impact site near the summit.
The pilot, Jack Clarke was a veteran of 47 bombing raids over Europe and North Africa and by all accounts, a Canadian war hero and competent pilot. It's surmised that a combination of engine failure, heavy icing and most importantly navigational error due to the primitive systems of the day were the causes of the crash.
Mount Slesse is the final resting place for 62 people and is protected as a Heritage Wreck Site. Jack Clarke's wife Vivian never remarried and her family took her ashes to Slesse after her passing. Technically, we're not even supposed to climb the East Wall much less mess with the place.
I guess the point of my interest and efforts are to bring awareness to climbers to better know this story and respect the mountain as the cemetery and grave marker for those who lost their lives on Flight 810.
For those interested in more details, I highly recommend this book.
Thanks for letting me share here.
ps. I'm using binary code instead of potatoes for the scale model of the mountain. Way less messy.
Disaster on Mount Slesse
The Story of Western Canada's Worst Air Crash
by Betty O'Keefe & Ian Macdonald
A gripping account of Western Canada's worst aviation disaster.
Book Description
Mount Slesse, a jagged 2,500-metre peak near Chilliwack BC known locally as "The Fang," lived up to its evil reputation on December 9, 1956, when Trans Canada Airlines Flight 810 slammed into it, killing all 62 aboard. For five months nobody knew what happened. Flight 810 had just disappeared into the night. Adding to the sensation was the fact that the flight carried five professional football players fresh from the CFL All Star game in Vancouver and a mystery man by the name of Kwan Song who was rumoured to be carrying a sizeable fortune in cash. Finally on May 10, 1957, a diminutive female mountaineer named Elfrida Pigou discovered the gruesome crash site, setting off a stampede of macabre treasure hunters. It wasn’t until May 25, 1995, that the BC government placed a protective zone around the debris field, declaring it a Heritage Wreck Site. To mark the fiftieth anniversary of this historic tragedy, Betty O'Keefe and Ian Macdonald have written a gripping, blow-by-blow account of western Canada’s worst aviation disaster, carefully examining its context, causes and aftermath.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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May 29, 2011 - 01:37pm PT
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Very cool.
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Lahar
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May 29, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
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10 December 1946 - A Curtiss R5C-1 Commando military transport plane, BuNo 39528, c/n 26715/CU355, (ex-USAAF 42-3582), of VMR-152, crashed into Mount Rainier's South Tahoma Glacier, killing 32 U.S. Marines.[96] Wreckage not found until July 1947.
The wreckage is still up there.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 29, 2011 - 02:36pm PT
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hey there say, tamie... cheif and all...
thanks for the very interesting things you share here... more to add to the "stuff we learn at supertopo topo list" :)
*wow, tami, you sure got a lot of interesting adventures!
(yep, i knew this already from reading other post, but i just had to chip this in, due to the "fireball" story that tied-in with your "fireball-area trip" !
:(
sad as to the loss-of-life stories, but the history of the shares, is very interesting, as i said...
:)
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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May 29, 2011 - 05:02pm PT
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"Follow-up / safety actions:
It was recommended a.o. that pilots be encouraged to dump fuel in emergency situations."
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19561209-1
One of four engines down, possibly on fire. Strong storms with icing conditions and the mountains beneath. Wow, scary as hell! Interesting about the fuel dump procedure. Wonder if it would have saved them.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2011 - 05:44pm PT
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More photos
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 29, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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I forget when I did it (76 or 77?). It was still an easy drive, thank heavens.
I mainly recall being scared spitless traversing under the hanging glacier
which was down to a murderous-looking morsel.
Then I was scared spitless on the descent traversing some 50 degree turf.
If the truth be told I probably would have gone up there sooner if I hadn't
been friends with the second ascent team. They were damn lucky they came off
as well as they did. Major kudos to the helo team. I'm afraid my memory
is still too compromised by vicariously sharing their experience to re-tell it.
Furthermore, only one of the four is still with us. An additional weird
coincidence is that Steve Marts, who was on the first ascent of the NE
Buttress with Fred and Bjornstad, was with Wickwire, Givler, and Jagerski
when the latter two fell off Mt Abbey in the Fairweather Range.
The Northstar certainly was a jinxed airplane: 4 or the 71 built crashed!
Was it just Canadian desire to assert themselves that drove them to build such
a Rube Goldberg creation? I mean, the DC-6 was a pretty damn good plane.
If it ain't broke why phuk with it?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 29, 2011 - 09:57pm PT
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Fascinating history.
Thanks Chief, and all for posting on this.
Never climbed farther north than Mt. Baker in the Cascades.
Slesse is not on my "to die for" list.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
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The Northstar certainly was a jinxed airplane: 4 or the 71 built crashed!
Reilly, this comment contradicts everything I've read so far about the Northstar. Other than the loud Merlins the Northstar was apparently a stalwart and reliable aircraft, a mainstay of the aviation industry of the day flying the North Atlantic and serving as a "transcontinental workhorse". Of the four crashes you refer to, Flight 810 was largely attributed to navigational error and quite possibly a CFT (Controlled Flight into Terrain), another was the victim of a preventable mid air collision and one apparently crashed hauling armaments to rebels in Nigeria. Not sure about the fourth but will look into it.
Edit;
Was it just Canadian desire to assert themselves that drove them to build such a Rube Goldberg creation?
I'd like to know more about the details that qualified this aircraft as a "Rube Goldberg" creation and will definitely be assiduously researching this claim. Your comment on Canadian assertion is at best an odious troll.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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May 29, 2011 - 11:01pm PT
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A cool story, and definitely an atmospheric mountain. I'd like to go back sometime.
On a side note Chief, I was supposed to go climbing with Greg at Index when you and he did that face. Apparently your offer sounded better. Can't say I blame him.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2011 - 11:04pm PT
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Java and I had a great adventure.
He narrowly avoided being swept off the mountain when a snowfield sh#t out just after we'd unroped and filled our water bottles at it's base.
Our cramped night standing in our packs on a ledge not unlike the hood of a VW Bug is well chronicled in his excellent essay, "The Diadactics of Bivoucaism".
With regard to our route on the East Pillar, credit has to be given to our late friend John Stoddard who with Dennis Mullen attempted a similar line hammerless and "escaped" up left years before our ascent. RIP John.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 30, 2011 - 01:10am PT
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Thanks, Perry and all - an important piece of our mountain lore. There's a full account of the crash and the eventual locating of the site in Paddy Sherman's "Cloudwalkers". 32 pages altogether, so no I won't scan and post it. Paddy was a local newspaperman from the 1950s on, an avid mountaineer, and one of the key people in the Mountain Rescue Group. Mountain-related things were reasonably well covered in The Province then - when it was still a reputable paper.
That's a lovely model, Perry. I'm trying to place the name of the fellow who made it, who you say was in the BCMC, and may ask my father.
The hypothesized crash scenario was all too common in the 1950s, in the pre-jet era. Bad weather, icing, mechanical problems, route, elevation. Rather like the crash that killed my uncle - he was navigator on a Lancaster that crashed a week before the end of the war. When I was there for a memorial five years ago, I met a woman who'd seen the crash, and said the plane had an engine on fire. They never did much of an investigation, though, and a fire isn't in the official report.
The Canadian aviation industry produced some excellent planes through the 1950s, until kneecapped by the government's cancellation of the AVRO Arrow.
Slesse is quite the alpine place, and somewhat overawes many. There is debris scattered all over the east side, mostly now lower down. Something to think about on the approach.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 30, 2011 - 01:37pm PT
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Any idea how many VEGA's are still on the road? Those things had a low success rate unlike the northstar.....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 30, 2011 - 03:45pm PT
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What about the back seat of a AMC gremlin with a Dr. Browns chocolate soda bottle..?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 30, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
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Didn't Guy and someone try Heart of Darkness, and get blanked out fairly high?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2011 - 06:57pm PT
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Drifting slightly off thread, I did some extrapolating from the earlier comment re Canadian desire for assertion creating a Rube Goldberg aircraft and gave thought to the shuttle program. Two of how many shuttles down? Any bad engineering or shoddy procedures as contributing factors? I have too much respect for my southern neighbors to even suggest misguided nationalism.
Ahhh, phuk it, not worth getting into it I guess.
Heart of Darkness, scary place in bad conditions. Kind of like climbing a gun barrel.
We didn't know shite from shineola when we tried it, no avalanche training, beacons or conditions reports. Young, dumb and lucky.
Word around the campfire was that Maxim was flushed out by a slab avalanche. Don't know about Guy's effort.
It's a prize best considered in perfect winter conditions in a single push with a tough bit of dry tooling and or direct aid two thirds of the way to The Notch. Not worth dying for though.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 30, 2011 - 08:25pm PT
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Chief....the first shuttle went down because of politics...the shuttle wasn't ready to fly but someone got in a big hurry , to make himself look good , and the thing was launched with defective o-rings that caused the explosion......to make matters worse , a scapegoat was chosen to take the blame for the shuttle explosion...sorry no links but i have an inside story from a reliable source...if i quit posting on the taco you'll know why...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 30, 2011 - 08:36pm PT
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Heart of darkness or rear ended while driving a vega..what's the diff..?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2011 - 09:00pm PT
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rottingjohnny
The O Ring situation was well known and if I have my info right, one of Morton Thiokol's senior people committed suicide in the aftermath of the Challenger disaster.
There were immediate concerns after the Columbia's takeoff re damage from the foam that broke off the fuel tank. Flight control went with computer models based on conservative estimates of debris size, quantity and impact velocity to decide there was no significant damage to the orbiter. In the aftermath of the accident, tests recreating actual circumstances (50 lb. debris pieces impacting at 500 mph) showed catastrophic damage to the leading edge of the shuttle's wing.
Although many people were concerned about this, precautionary options were ignored including a spacewalk inspection which would have found the damage. There were viable rescue options and at a minimum, a modified re entry profile might have mitigated the lethal vulnerabilty due to the damaged wing edge. In retrospect, it can be rightly said that the loss of the Columbia crew was avoidable.
Hence my umbrage and trout like response to the specious and bigoted opines of a previous poster.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 30, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
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Chief... I get it..I'll ask my friend about the O-ring story and get back to you one of these days...RJ
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
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Nice work Jim,
Those photos are worth thousands of words.
Looks like the Nooksack Tower and Shuksan in the deep bg.?
Mighty? BK? Anyone?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2011 - 03:02am PT
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Perry can't you elaborate on the HOD or is it too freaky to recall? I heard something like its a miracle you all made it down
BK, it wasn't quite that bad.
We had an amazing adventure trying the route in near ideal conditions.
Peder lead a grade 4 waterfall pitch to get into the gulley proper, very cool.
Surprisingly low angle trudge to a poorly protected mixed pitch, Joe Wayoutski's lead.
Narrowing and steepening neve and ice to the base of the real steep section where we bivied.
I ventured up to the start of "The Business" next morning in deteriorating weather and decided we should get the hell out of there, FAST! With the oncoming storm and snowfall the spindrift was unreal, hissing over the overhang above us and down the left wall and growing into a narrow but powerful stream down the gulley.
By the time we rapped the waterfall pitch at the bottom the spindrift was a roaring plume and the Bear, last man down, got sucked into it. It tore his glasses off leaving him blind and rocketing down the rap lines and spit out at the bottom.
He had snow packed in places where most people don't have places.
Once Joe and I knew he was OK we howled with nervous laughter.
We chuffed a fatty and bailed back to Vancouver.
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JFrimer
Trad climber
BC
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May 31, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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I am the only living member of the team that got to the existing high point on the Heart of Darkness. Guy Edwards was my partner on the adventure.
If I recall, it was an extraordinarily dry February. After a warm spell, the weather cleared for a week. So conditions were ultra-firm. We didn't even use skies to get to the base... just walking on rain crust. Guy had tried the route a few times previously with the similarly late and similarly great John Millar. They hadn't got past the bergschrund before getting avalanched.
We bivied near the base then hit it, single push style, in the morning. Guy broke trail to the bergschrund:
My camera then ran out of film (oops). The rest is only in my memory.
I led up the first pitch (AI 3 or 4). Not much ice worthy of an ice screw. I thought to myself "what have I gotten myself into?" Guy said "if every pitch is like that, this'll be a classic!"
Next, a bunch of 45 degree snow. Very few cracks on the rock walls... Another ice pitch in the WI4 range then more snow gully, which brought us to "the business".
My anchor was two medium length screws in good ice, but bottomed on rock 2/3 the way down. Guy took the sharp end. Up some WI4, he placed a good screw (the last good piece on the pitch). At 30m, he equalized two small pins. Then, he went for it. The wall above was coated in 4" of alpine ice. Tap. Tug. Rip out. Tap. Tug. Rip Out. Tap. Tug. Hold. Commit to it. This went on for 30m more. Two hours later, I called up to Guy. He yelled down, nervously: "Almost finished shitting myself." Had he fallen at the top, he would have falled 60m onto the bad pins, pulled then, fallen another 30m onto the good screw. Had that not held, it would have been another 30m onto my two so-so ice screw anchor.
When I joined him at the belay, I was feeling rather unsettled by the situation. Guy admitted that he hadn't been that scared in a long time. He later called the pitch M5X.
Above was even more business. Snow mushrooms on rock, followed by an 8m gentle overhang. No obvious cracks. Looked a bit like Skaha... upside down staircase. Guy offered me the lead. I declined. He scratched his way up the mushrooms, hand drilled a 1/4" bolt, and asked me if I wanted to tag in. It looked like we'd need to drill a bolt ladder. I didn't. So he left his brightest piece of tat so that others would see, and lowered off.
Rapping was interesting... bad anchors. One was a pin and an RP, in the same crack. The RP wire was threaded through the eye of the pin.
Walking out, we agreed to the following: that my comfort with risk was lower than Guy's, which was, in turn, lower than that of Lena Rowat.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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May 31, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
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Beautiful model plane, great stories and an awesome mountain, enjoyed the thread!
I witnessed a plane crash (OV-10A Bronco)in the Sierra many years ago and had to build a model as well. It hangs in the garage and isn't nearly as nice as yours.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 31, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
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Thanks, Jeremy! Do you remember which year your attempt was in? Sounds like quite the adventure - I vaguely recall running into Guy when he was at MEC to get 1/4" stainless bolts for it.
Kit made a memorable presentation on their winter ascent of the northeast buttress at the "John Howe slideshow" in autumn 1986 (?). Including on the "dead lycra faggots" pitch. One of the few major technical routes in the Coast Ranges (OK, and Cascades) to have had a winter ascent.
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JFrimer
Trad climber
BC
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Anders, our attempt would have been around 2003 (+/- 1).
GF, Agreed. RIP Fast Eddie.
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MH2
climber
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Beautiful plane and model, fascinating thread.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Does Fred's Cascades North guide say anything about the geology of the area? He tends to be pretty good about that sort of information.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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In my SAR days, the #1 airplane to go down was,,,,,,beechcraft bonanza, followed closely by the cessna 414 and cherokee 140. I was personally at five bonanza crash sites.
Beechcraft Bonanza aka " The Doctor Killer" because of the rate of in flight break-ups and the # of hobby pilots that purchased Bonanzas due to prestige of owning the V tailed aircraft.
My boyhood friend's dad owned one and I took many a ride in it. You still see them flying today even though there are no longer produced with the V tail.
Buddy Holly's last flight was in a Bonanza.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Great thread.
A while back, at CC.com, Bryan Burdo posted a short TR of his first ascent of "The Navigator Wall". This is a big, steep chossy route to the South Summit that passes very close to actual crash site. I climbed this route about 7 years ago in deteriorating weather and somehow missed seeing the wreckage high on the peak, a big disappointment in retrospect...
Original Post on CC.com
"When I climbed Navigator Wall with Pete Doorish (almost 20 years ago!??!!), we camped below the South Peak. I never saw any "Bone Cairn", but there was plenty of debris. I remember being most struck by a compact leather kit. I unzipped the top and opened it to find an electric shaver, it's cord neatly coiled around it. I thought about how some businessman had meticulously laid it out on a bed the morning of the flight. The sense of small-scale order amongst the chaos was a last flicker of humanity that we were privileged to find, and replace respectfully.
Near the top of the climb, on the third day, we noticed a massive amount of wreckage, including what looked to be a tail section, on the southern satellite summit, climber's left of the South Peak. Does anyone have information of the exact impact point of the crash? I remember being astonished at so much material being so precariously perched that high on the mountain. It looked like it must have been strongly embedded by the impact.
Finally, on the descent, there was yet more debris on the col above where we saw the wreckage, south of the South summit. It was here that, amongst some wiring and electronics, I reached down and picked up a three-inch diameter ring of metal. On it was inscribed the points of the compass. It was a floating compass, used for general navigation, usually mounted above the dashboard in the cockpit.
Considering the real serendepity in linking that route together, sometimes tenuously linking disconnected crack systems on a large and ever-steepening wall, I felt like I was drawing a bit into my personal bag of karma that trip. Amid the ruggedness of the situation, there was a benevolence of happenstance, as the weather was perfect and the route unfolded wonderfully (this karma came to a dramatic end on the East face of Steinbock a few days later, but that's another story).
It's hard to put a finger on any direct connection of our climb and ouselves with the tragedy, although the coincidence of the accident's occurence only a few weeks before I was born is one tiny thread. We were definitely involved in a positive psychic connection up there that weekend. I like to think that it was mainly the bond of friendship between me and Pete, which endures to this day, but if there were spirits still lingering up there, they were smiling with and upon us as we made passage."
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MH2
climber
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Thanks to Slabby D for the Bryan Burdo re-post. Another connection among climb, crash, and person, is that his Dad was a test pilot for Boeing.
And the cc.com link takes us back to that great post on the Bone Cairn by dberdinka.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2011 - 04:01pm PT
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While it's great to see this thread draw posts on the broader subject of Slesse, it's climbing history and geology, I'm thrilled by Slabby D's post re Bryan Burdo's experience on the Navigator route and more information on the crash of the Northstar. The story of the crash has been of increasing fascination to me and I have marveled at the doorways that have opened to a network of almost serendipitous connectivity amongst people affected by by this event. I tracked down Jack Clarke's son Jay and have had informative discussions with him and inadvertently shared a chair lift ride with Paddy Sherman and Fips Broda a couple years ago. When I commissioned the building of the scale model, my hope was that it would promote discussion and greater understanding of the crash. So far this thread is validating that hunch. Thanks for the input.
Slabby D, if you have contact info for Bryan Burdo could you please send me a PM. Much obliged.
PB
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Perry
I see Bryan reasonably often at the gym. If you can't get contact info elsewhere, let me know and I'll tell him you want to talk to him.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
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Ghost,
Thanks for that, just got a PM from Mark re contact info fro Bryan and will track him down.
Wenatchee Bluegrass Festival June 18-19?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The crash was apparently at or just below the notch between the main and the south summits, on the east side. (It shows well in the photos that Jim posted.) Pigou's party was climbing the normal route on the main summit, but got off route and ended up at the gap, finding wreckage there. There are two photos in Cloudwalkers at and from the notch, showing hanging wreckage etc. There's probably still some there, but most of it by now must have fallen down the east side. If you are in the area in early summer, there's often debris left on the winter snow below the east side and northeast buttress.
I haven't done the south peak, but believe that it follows the same route as that for the regular route on the main summit. Where the main summit route goes up and left out of a gully, you go right.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
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Just want to remind people that the book Disaster on Slesse explains the history of the crash in a succinct but informative manner that makes it hard to put the book down. While Paddy does devote some time to Slesse in his book Cloudwalkers, the OKeefe/MacDonald effort offers a more complete picture.
The impact site just below the notch is obvious with blasticated rock and bits of shrapnel and fuselage that gleam in the sun. You can't swing a dead cat down in the basin without hitting a piece of the shattered Northstar. There are a couple of real obvious commemorative markers on the way in and if you're heading up to the east wall or taking the high traverse to the NE Buttress, you can't miss the propeller cairn.
I can't speak for other's impressions of Slesse but it's a stark, jagged and ominous looking peak and that's in summer. In winter it's a veritable nightmare. While it's buttresses and obvious ridges well define the mountain's architecture from a distance, once you're under it, it's an amorphous MoFo. Slesse has been officially designated a Heritage Crash Site and grave marker by the Federal Government and like Yosemite's Sentinel it's definitely a TOMBSTONE!
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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I never was so terrified and uncomfortable pre-climb about a route than when Chief dragged me kicking and screaming to the base of Slesses unclimbed North East Face for an attempt in the mid 80's. The gaveyard bivi produced a hideous collection of never to be remembered nightmares scarring me for life ...
The worst was the long silent drive home with our tails between our legs not even having broken the rope out of the pack at the base ...
Utterly, fully and completely mentally humiliated by the most foreboding evil mountain wall in south western BC
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JFrimer
Trad climber
BC
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A good trail now goes to Crossover Meadows and Crossover Pass. 3h from the car to this view.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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A good trail now goes to Crossover Meadows and Crossover Pass. 3h from the car to this view.
I still think the way Anders and I did it was as good as any, and it's also a pretty good proof that you don't have to be fast, to be fast. We climbed the NE Butt just one day after two hot climbers who were keen to blitz it in a day, and despite the fact that we were nowhere near in their class as pure rockclimbers, and that we had no intentions of speed, our doorstep-to-doorstep time was better than theirs -- entirely because we didn't bother with the Crossover descent. We left Vancouver in the morning, parked the car on the Chiliwack river road, hiked in and got partway up the buttress that day, and bivied. Bumbled our way up and over the summit and part way down the west side the next day. Bivied again and then hiked out to the car via the other valley in the early morning and were back in Vancouver before noon. Total time: barely over 48 hours.
Edit to add: regarding the crash, I've been on the mountain a few times, seen debris, but never felt anything I could describe as spiritual or paranormal. I'm sorry for the folks who died, but I never felt haunted by their spirits.
I heard that the other two (Dave Vernon and maybe Richard Suddaby????) blitzed the actual route in 8 hours or so. But to speed their ascent, they bivied at the base the night before and started climbing the next morning. They fired the route in minimal time, but that left them on the summit and their bivi gear back at the start of the route. So no choice but to do the much slower Crossover descent. On which they got caught by darkness. Total time? I think almost three days.
Edit: I've been on the mountain quite a few times, and seen my share of the debris, but never felt anything paranormal. I felt sorry for the people who were killed, but then, I feel sorry for people who are killed in highway accidents, or on battlefields, or who are felled by disease.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Ah. When we climbed it, the Nesakwatch road was closed (bridge had been bulldozed) within a stone's throw of the Chiliwack River Road. Given that hiking down the west side of the mountain was so much faster than going back down the east side via Crossover, the extra hour or so of hike out the valley was irrelevant.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The trail that Jeremy and friends built a few years ago apparently makes it much easier to get back to the Nesakwatch valley. That said, you still have to get down the regular route, and back along the ridge some distance. There's much more information available now than previously about what to do, but it still requires mountain sense.
I've done the regular route or northwest face several times, once as a day trip. A couple of times we've run into NE buttress parties on top, who were essentially lost in terms of the descent off the tower and into Slesse Creek valley. A good place for a reconnaisance - when David and I did the buttress, he'd done the regular route before, which was quite a help. (Bunch of photos on the 'climbing at Squamish in the 1970s' thread.) We set out from the car (just off the Chilliwack Lake road) in late morning on Saturday, bivouaced 5 - 6 pitches up, and got up and over and down to non-technical ground before bivouacing again. I was in a hurry, so set off very early in the morning after a waterless sleepless late summer night, scuttled down the trail, drank half of the creek, then had a long hike out, essentially to the Chilliwack Lake road again. Then got lucky, got a ride quickly, and got back just as Dave appeared.
The tower descent + Crossover traverse and descent is if anything more challenging, especially in less than good conditions, and shouldn't be underestimated.
Anywhere under the east side of Slesse is a foreboding place, and would be regardless of the crash.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Its a dawdle compared to slesse creek. you guys are sick
Hey, who you callin' sick? Our descent was cake. Two raps off the summit then easy hiking. It's the Crossover descent that was sick. Maybe they've paved it and and put up streetlights and it's okay now, but back when dinosaurs walked the earth it was the sick option. Hiking down the tourist route and strolling out Slesse Creek valley might have been a few klicks longer, but it sure was easy.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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If the 'Crossover' is the one we did back down to the creek on the east
side then I concur. Didn't like that one bit.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2011 - 03:44am PT
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Interesting weaves of the thread.
Re paranormal interaction with the plane crash.
While it was kind of thought provoking and spooky camping by the propeller cairn, I don't recall anything other than my fertile imagination at work. Clearly the experience made more of an impression on my esteemed colleague bmacd, but then he takes a more liberal view of such things. I certainly wouldn't dismiss such possibilities or make light of another's experiences in this regard and would say, to each their own.
Re Slesse Creek descent over Crossover.
When I soloed the buttress and got to the Crossover option, it looked like a nightmare compared to the superhighway of a trail dropping down to Slesse, so I went that way. I have a different recollection than Ghost as it seemed like an extra ten or fifteen kms, back to Nesakwatch over the way I walked in. In fact the longest leg of the twenty two hour day from Squamish was the descent and walk back to my car. The climb up the buttress proper didn't take more than a couple hours.
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Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
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A little previously posted eye candy.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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I was embellishing the bivi experience as is my usual literary style but Tami has been more succinct in describing pre climb emotions but I do well remember the enormity of the task at hand - nothing paranormal inferred in this instance
The grave yard bivi wasn't good for a pre-climb psych up though - or memorial / propeller cairn as it's called
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
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Tami,
Slesse scared me away at last a half dozen times over the years.
The times I did climb it, I couldn't take in the whole mountain at once and had to work really hard at pretending I was brave.
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JFrimer
Trad climber
BC
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Last time I climbed the NE Buttress, I daytripped it, summitting by noon (having climbed the headwall pitches in the rain). 8h from the car to the summit. Our plan was to use the Crossover Descent (pre-trail days). But it was in clouds so we went down the old "normal" trail to the west. Knee-crushing descent, slide alder road, long walk (my friend showed me had enough control to pee while walking!), walking up the Chilliwack road, thumb a ride from kind strangers, back to the car at 8pm. Yup, *with* a ride, it took as long to get back to descend as it did to climb. I timed it from below Crossover Pass last summer. Less than 1.5 hours. Assuming that the descent off the mountain takes 2 hours, that's 3.5 hours back to the car... and you'll find water along the way (unlike the other side). Not to mention the streetlights, pavement, and maniacs wielding machetes.
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