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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 18, 2011 - 10:38pm PT
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I'll be honest. I didn't know much about Ayn Rand until just recently.
Why are GOPers and especially Tea-Party members raving about Ayn Rand so much lately? What is her draw? Why do they espouse her philosophy? What is her philosophy?
No wonder they are sick and deluded. Their hero, Ayn Rand, is a psychopath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
The Truth About GOP Hero Ayn Rand – ThinkProgressVideo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x574778
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7zwO88nRH8
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/18/truth-about-ayn-rand
“During her lifetime, Rand advocated “the virtue of selfishness,” declared altruism to be “evil,” opposed Medicare and all forms of government support for the middle-class and the poor, and condemned Christianity for advocating love and compassion for the less fortunate.
Rand also dismissed the feminist movement as a “false” and “phony” issue, said a female commander in chief would be “unspeakable,” characterized Arabs as “almost totally primitive savages,” and called government efforts to aid the handicapped and educate “subnormal children” an attempt to “bring everybody to the level of the handicapped.”
http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/03/ayn-rand-in-uganda-2/
ATLAS SHRIEKED: Ayn Rand's first love was a sadistic serial killer
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x913404
http://exiledonline.com/atlas-shrieked-why-ayn-rands-right-wing-followers-are-scarier-than-the-manson-family-and-the-gruesome-story-of-the-serial-killer-who-stole-ayn-rands-heart/
One of my Facebook friends posted this article to his profile today. It isn't a new one, but somehow I missed it the first time around. Like Adolf Hitler, Ayn Rand wasn't just a sociopath but a crusading sociopath--her goal was to make the world over in her own sociopathic image. It's absolutely terrifying how close that goal has come to its fulfillment, at least in the United States.
The description of the murder and dismemberment of the 12-year-old kidnapping victim is very brutal and graphic and I'm not going to quote from it. There's a photograph of the cops picking up the pieces (literally) along a highway also.
--Linda
ATLAS SHRIEKED: Ayn Rand’s First Love and Mentor Was A Sadistic Serial Killer Who Dismembered Little Girls
February 26, 2010
By Mark Ames
There’s something deeply unsettling about living in a country where millions of people froth at the mouth at the idea of giving health care to the tens of millions of Americans who don’t have it, or who take pleasure at the thought of privatizing and slashing bedrock social programs like Social Security or Medicare. It might not be as hard to stomach if other Western countries also had a large, vocal chunk of the population who thought like this, but the US is seemingly the only place where right-wing elites can openly share their distaste for the working poor. Where do they find their philosophical justification for this kind of attitude?
It turns out, you can trace much of this thinking back to Ayn Rand, a popular cult-philosopher who plays Charlie to the American right-wing’s Manson Family. Read on and you’ll see why.
One reason why most countries don’t find the time to embrace her thinking is that Ayn Rand is a textbook sociopath. Literally a sociopath: Ayn Rand, in her notebooks, worshiped a notorious serial murderer-dismemberer, and used this killer as an early model for the type of “ideal man” that Rand promoted in her more famous books — ideas which were later picked up on and put into play by major right-wing figures of the past half decade, including the key architects of America’s most recent economic catastrophe — former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan and SEC Commissioner Chris Cox — along with other notable right-wing Republicans such as Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, and South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford.
Back in the late 1920s, as Ayn Rand was working out her philosophy, she became enthralled by a real-life American serial killer, William Edward Hickman, whose gruesome, sadistic dismemberment of 12-year-old girl named Marion Parker in 1927 shocked the nation. Rand filled her early notebooks with worshipful praise of Hickman. According to biographer Jennifer Burns, author of Goddess of the Market, Rand was so smitten by Hickman that she modeled her first literary creation — Danny Renahan, the protagonist of her unfinished first novel, The Little Street — on him.
What did Rand admire so much about Hickman? His sociopathic qualities: “Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should,” she wrote, gushing that Hickman had “no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel ‘other people.’”
This echoes almost word for word Rand’s later description of her character Howard Roark, the hero of her novel The Fountainhead: “He was born without the ability to consider others.”
(The Fountainhead is Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s favorite book — he even makes his clerks learn it.)
Source:
http://exiledonline.com/atlas-shrieked-why-ayn-rands-right-wing-followers-are-scarier-than-the-manson-family-and-the-gruesome-story-of-the-serial-killer-who-stole-ayn-rands-heart/
I wont be buying any of her books. They are stacking them at Costco. Nor will I be seeing the movie.
Atlas Shrugged. What garbage.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 10:43pm PT
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 18, 2011 - 10:48pm PT
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I think it's a step in the right direction if you can get a republican to read a book, other than the Bible, even if it's a bad book.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 18, 2011 - 10:54pm PT
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To be honest, my attention span could not handle that size of book unless I were truly passionate of the topic.
However, I think there are much more "evil" people to undermine than Ayn Rand.
Have you actually read the book?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:07pm PT
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If the GOP actually had a love affair with Ayn Rand ( and acted like it ), I would be tempted to register Republican.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
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While I'm tempted to agree Klimmer, Im not into people who bash books they haven't read.
Did you actually read Atlas Shrugged?
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Nohea
Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
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And the Great Recession is all their fault
Hilarious!
Beats me about the t party but the GOP has historically hated and been hated by Rand. She was an athiest and many other points that I and likely the GOP would disagree with. That accusation about the murderer is sick, if not supported by a relaible source I would find it in pretty poor taste.
What her books, well the few I have read, Atlas Shrugged, Foutainhead, Capitalism, We the living... well lets just say I have read a few; her fiction tales promote the individual, and ridule the collective. I believe in the individual and will always resist the collective.
Just because a few repubs quote her hardly means a love affair is going on, and Ayn did know about those.
Cheers and Aloha,
will
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:40pm PT
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Alisa Rosenbaum (her real name) was a hypocrite like most of her modern day "keep your govt hands off my medicare" fan-bois.
Railing against the New Deal and Great Society policies, and then receiving Medicare when she was faced with the results of her heavy smoking habit. Even went to the trouble of applying under her husband's last name so as to conceal her hypocrisy from her adoring mini-Galts.
Most people with an emotional development beyond the 14yr old stage reject her "philosophy" out of hand, and calling it "philosophy" is really straining the term.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
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Port,
I already said I wasn't going to purchase any of her books or see the movie. So no I haven't. Nor will I. I already know her gig. 3.5 min video and a few articles on who she really is by people I trust to tell me the truth.
She is a selfish psycho.
She could be the bride of Lucifer and probably is.
And this is who the GOP and Tea-Party esteem? No wonder they are so evil.
Is Fattrad ("The Evil One") into Ayn Rand? I wonder.
Yo, Fattrad are you into Ayn Rand? Enquiring minds want to know.
lol.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
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Ein Rant
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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Klimmer, they do have public libraries in your part of the world, don't they?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2011 - 11:56pm PT
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Library? What's that?
The books I like to read are usually not in public libraries. You know forbidden secret knowledge and all. Why? Well, its forbidden of course. lol.
Actually, I'm the worst on books. I dog-ear pages, write notes in margins, and tend to carry them everywhere and bang them up until I'm finished reading them.
Nope I will not be buying any of her books at Costco. Talk about the GOP and Tea-Party pushing books. Can it be any more obvious?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:59pm PT
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Klimmer, sometimes I wonder if you're posting to the Taco from under some bridge...
they have Ayn Rand at your local library, just go down and check it out and read it... otherwise you as much a putz as those who extol her virtues without every having read a word of her...
you live in some sort of Klimmer generated universe... it is totally bizarre...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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I have read both the Fountainhead and Atlas Sharted. I can see why she named herself after her typewriter ("Rand"...that's where it came from) because the emotionally stunted nutjob did LOVE to type if the length of these bricks masquerading as novels is any indication.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2011 - 12:17am PT
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Ed,
Yes, if I was interested I'm sure I could go to the L-I-B-R-A-R-Y and check out any of her books. If I was interested . . .
Something easier though . . .
3.5 minute video and to the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7zwO88nRH8
Do you really think I would be interested in hearing anything she has to say in any fictional book she has written after that very short interview? Nope. She said all I need to know.
She is a selfish sociopath (or psychopath, take your pick).
Now why would I waste my precious time with any of her writings?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:23am PT
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if I was interested I'm sure I could go to the L-I-B-R-A-R-Y and check out any of her books. If I was interested . . .
I dont understand. You're interested enough to have an opinion and post a thread about it on supertopo, yet are too lazy to actually read your source material?
I have a feeling this has been your pattern for a long time.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2011 - 12:26am PT
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I will repeat . . .
Do you really think I would be interested in hearing anything she has to say in any fictional book she has written after that very short interview? Nope. She said all I need to know.
She is a selfish sociopath (or psychopath, take your pick).
Now why would I waste my precious time with any of her writings?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:30am PT
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I've read her books and can give you this advice: don't.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:34am PT
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When I was unmarried and living the "good-life" in my 20's: I forced myself to read a lot of "important novels."
Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead: was one of the more forgetable of those.
Per the Wiki article on her, maybe I should force myself to read "Atlas Shrugged."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
Hell Yeah!! Maybe I can learn to quit caring about what other people think or need!
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MisterE
Social climber
Cinderella Story, Outa Nowhere
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:40am PT
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Selfishness is an "easy out" to avoid a caring, more global perspective.
As resources get scarcer, this kind of thinking will become more prevalent.
Ayn Rand is one of those writers that knows the juvenile mind, and her spewage reaches out for that immaturity in all of us, regardless of age.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:56am PT
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You're not entitled to an opinion until you've done the requisite work and formed your own ideas. Right now you're just spewing someone else's thoughts that fit your personal agenda
In honesty, I agree with what you're saying. But you need to read your sources, especially those that are in opposition to your ideology. It will force you to question your own assumptions and bias. You may realize that you don't have everything figured out, and actually have much to learn, like all of us do.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:07am PT
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Hey Jim,
Not defending Ayn Rand. Ignoring the fact that Klimmer has never read any of her books, I think its healthy to read and think about ideas that don't fit into our own ideology. Too many people read books that only confirm their own belief system....and then wonder how anyone could possibly have an opinion that doesn't fit into their own framework. Well, if they pick up a damn book, they could learn something.
Thats why people resort to "evil" as an explanation for someones behavior. All that tells me is that you've given up, or never tried, to understand where that person is coming from.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 02:35am PT
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Why are GOPers and especially Tea-Party members raving about Ayn Rand so much lately? What is her draw? Why do they espouse her philosophy? What is her philosophy?
Because she makes them feel less guilty about I'veGotMineism.
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apogee
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 02:38am PT
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"Because she makes them feel less guilty about being selfish."
And it allows them to rationalize their selfishness via intellectualism (even though 95% of them never read the damn thing).
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Apr 19, 2011 - 08:26am PT
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I liked The Fountainhead more than Atlas Shrugged.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 08:38am PT
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Port....Right on!..I dated this beautiful intellectual lady that lives by Rands philosophies....She had a compulsive shopping disorder and owned 2 of everything inspite of a poverty level income...Perfect example of reading what fit her lifestyle...Rj
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 19, 2011 - 11:08am PT
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It's sad that Rant and other central European escapees from the totalitarianism of Hitler and Stalin, and the general instability of Europe, would as a reaction have created a theology that is almost as ugly and dystopian. I say theology advisedly - "objectivism" is no philosophy or political science. It's no more than a collection of beliefs and reactions.
Atlas Shrugged is one of the most turgid things I've ever (partly) waded through, although I admit to not even having tried Das Kapital (Marx) or Mein Kampf (Hitler), both of which are famously unreadable.
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harihari
Trad climber
Squampton
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Apr 19, 2011 - 11:58am PT
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Rand has got to be the worst widely-read writer around. I read AS and TF in maybe gr 10 or so. LAter I was reading Galbraith, who said that "Conservativism is the intellectual quest to justify selfishness" which struck me as basically what Rand was trying to do.
The problem with Rand is that her philosophy is based on a reductio ad absurdum argument, which Hobbes had addressed 300 years before Rand was born: human existence, being inherently social, necessarily involves a set of compromises and giving up of certain rights. Hobbes' (and later Locke's) point was that these compromises made everybody better off. E.g. if everybody agrees to surrender the right to use violence to achieve one's ends, yes, you lose something, but you gain security.
If existence becomes solely about self-gain and self-preservation, everybody has an equal incentive to f**k with other people...this is what Hobbes called "the state of Nature." He rightly observed that (a) no human beings, ever, anywhere, live in such a state and that (b) if you did live in such a state, life would be "solitary, nasty, brutish and short."
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:40pm PT
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The reason Tea partiers and all right wingers go for Atlas Shrugged is that they are essentially authoritarian by nature.
That is pretty much the opposite of my impression of Rand. She left communist Russia, so it's no surprise that her writing promotes individualism over collectivism. She is way more of a libertarian than one of today's conservatives. The tea baggers are just latching onto the things they agree with and ignoring the other aspects of her philosophy.
Of course IMO it's all about balance. Greed is bad, but capitalism is good. People are most efficient and hard working when they can enjoy the fruits of their labor. But as history has shown socialism is bad, it's against human nature and even more subject to abuse and corruption.
I've only read one Ayn Rand book, Anthem, a long time ago and thought it was great. About 100 page novella. I'd at least read that before forming an opinion of her writing. It's like the people who rail against Obama from what they hear on Fox news "Commentary" shows. But never have and never would read one of the books that HE has actually written.
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apogee
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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fattrad, would you shave your junk if Ayn Rand asked you to?
How about if Cheney asked you to?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
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A common theme in her books is rough sex. I bet she made Alan Greenspan shave his junk.
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MisterE
Social climber
Cinderella Story, Outa Nowhere
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:23pm PT
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I would just like to add one more thing to Ayn Rand capturing the juvenile mind:
These kinds of ideas are presented to the juvenile as a test of adulthood. This is true for a person or a culture.
Ours is a juvenile culture, so these kind of ideas will hold power over us until we reject them as immature and move into adulthood.
My $0.02
(I have read both books)
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:28pm PT
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Excerpts and quotes huh? Let me excerpt and quote your last post Fatty:
No, I...don't have it, as usual.
Yup.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:31pm PT
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I'm calling for a cage match at the next AAC meeting, "3.5 minute video" vs "excerpts and quotes"
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apogee
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:41pm PT
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"Trust me, I am the law."
Man, we're so screwed.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:44pm PT
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why don't you post your high school diploma, Fatty?
BIG achievement in your life, tell the world.
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Gal
Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:49pm PT
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Most people with an emotional development beyond the 14yr old stage reject her "philosophy" out of hand, and calling it "philosophy" is really straining the term.
because the emotionally stunted nutjob did LOVE to type if the length of these bricks masquerading as novels is any indication.
+1 Elcapinyoazz-couldn't have said it better!!!!!!
Her infantile ramblings are filled with lack of depth, or intellect. I've read the Fountainhead to see what the fascination was a while back, and was horrified by the writing level-really ridiculous! I have no respect for her shallow ideas and long winded rants of no substance. Her portrayal of the female character-needy, weak, non-contributing parasite that just focused on the exterior, made me ill.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
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I tried to read AS but found it tedious drivel and gave up about 2/3 of the way through (that speech is what, 60 pages?!) Just couldn't see wasting any more time on it.
The above linked GQ article points out another way that objectivism appeals to some beyond justifying selfishness. It appeals to those who feel like they are deserving of greatness, but have never achieved it. See, it wasn't that perhaps they weren't that smart, or lucky or hard-working, it was the mediocrity of the masses that kept them down. In their mind, if only they were free of the "socialism" and catering to the least common denominator (damn those cripples and retards!) they could achieve their rightful destiny!
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 19, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
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"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 20, 2011 - 10:21am PT
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If only Ayn had had day to day dealings with real architects,(The Fountainhead) she may have chosen an engineer as her stalwart...
LOL!!
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Apr 20, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
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Tried "Atlas Shrugged" -- I found it (what I managed before quitting) very difficult to follow, finally gave up....
Years later read a very interesting take on Ms Rand....a Michael Shermer book called "Why People Believe Weird Things"....objectivism as a cult of personality....
If Shermer's research is valid, her hypocrisy & selfishness are / were disgusting to behold....
I guess I just don't like anyone telling me what's best for me.....
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 20, 2011 - 02:33pm PT
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Jolly, we can describe the construction of a building sorta like this:
An architect comes up with a "big vision" design. So what if little things like dimensions don't add up?
The engineer takes this "design", tries to make it work and turns it into construction plans. So what if the plans call for water to run up hill?
The surveyor takes these "plans", corrects all the busts and then stakes the plan in the ground. If that column gets staked 5 feet the wrong way, oops!
The framer, probably a high school drop out working out of the Labor Union Hall, comes along and takes this huge mess and actually builds something.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Apr 20, 2011 - 03:05pm PT
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Reading over this thread there are all kinds of inaccurate statements about Ayn Rands philosophy and lots of lazy people who just want to hate. To understand her philosophy you must start at the beginning and understand the need for a philosophy in the first place. Then start with understanding her view of reality:
"Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears."
Then consider her take on how we gain knowledge and learn about reality:
"Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival."
Her ethics:
"Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life."
This is her basic philosophy in her words, consider the basics and judge accordingly. Ask yourself if you would like to be forced to support ideas and people of which you do not approve? Do you want to live in a world where your life and actions may be subverted for the achievement of some greater good with which you disagree? Ayn Rand's philosophy is about freedom and personal responsibility. I think many people hate it because they believe that achieving their version of the good is more important than the rights of those who disagree with them. They would rather use force than to have to convince and freely persuade the people whose support they need. Now back to your rants...
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 20, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
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In other words, it's dog eat dog?
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 20, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
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I remember Hans Flourine being influenced by Rand in regards to competitive climbing. Climbing - as a SPORT - is competitiive. It's not fun....it's not you against yourself or the mountain....it's head to head battle for respect amongst your peers. Win or lose being forthright in your intentions is to be respected. The byproduct was a higher climbing standard!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 20, 2011 - 07:07pm PT
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Of COURSE matty, of course. It's that we "haters" are just not able to understand it you see...being lazy and ignorant and all.
The good ol "you are incapable of understanding" argument, a close cousin of the "No true Scotsman" argument.
Again, calling this woman's narcissistic ravings a "philosophy" is comical, if not sad. And what is sadder is that you take time to enlighten us lazy ignoramouses in a point by point manner, never seeming to realize that your culiminating quote is ridiculous on its face unless you happen to be a clinical sociopath.
Keep f*#kin that chicken.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 20, 2011 - 10:36pm PT
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Very advanced thinking Fattrad....greed is good for a select few and an unstainable masturbation ritual ending in disappointment for the greedy...Keep wainkin...Rj
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 20, 2011 - 10:40pm PT
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post your high school diploma, Fatty
Something you can really be proud of
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Apr 21, 2011 - 10:34am PT
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Of COURSE matty, of course. It's that we "haters" are just not able to understand it you see...being lazy and ignorant and all.
The good ol "you are incapable of understanding" argument, a close cousin of the "No true Scotsman" argument.
Where did I say you were incapable of understanding? I only said that to understand her you should start at the most basic points of the philosophy and not take a bunch of out of context quotes from the internet. I might be using the quotes out of context too, but unless you go to the source you'll never know.
Again, calling this woman's narcissistic ravings a "philosophy" is comical, if not sad. And what is sadder is that you take time to enlighten us lazy ignoramouses in a point by point manner, never seeming to realize that your culiminating quote is ridiculous on its face unless you happen to be a clinical sociopath.
It may not be a philosophy you like but it's still a philosophy. At least I'm taking the time to actually discuss ideas and not resort to name calling. If you think that final quote is ridiculous why not tell me why? Lastly I'm not calling everyone here lazy and ignorant or a hater. I only said there are a lot of people here who like to hate on Rand without ever having read much of her. I don't agree with all of her philosophy and I think there are ways that it could be presented better, but I agree with the basics.
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Tready
Trad climber
Syria
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Apr 21, 2011 - 11:46am PT
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I read The Fountainhead at the urging of a couple of my architect/engineer friends and once the dust settled, I emerged with a few insights.
1) The book sucked as a piece of literature. You can tell Roark is going to eventually succeed from the moment you meet him, and that Keating will eventually have a messy downfall - too cliched. That was the biggest problem I had with it, I guess.
2) Donegin (don't remember how exactly to spell his name) is bad ass.
3) There's a part in there about the creator being superior to the critic, regardless of the media, and that's pretty cool.
4) I didn't see much in there about philosophy other than the commie bashing and the pro-self stuff. Does that really count as a philosophy?
5) I won't ever solicit book suggestions from engineers or architects again.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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see link for the complete story - http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/feb/05/bill-requires-all-idaho-kids-read-atlas-shrugged/
February 5, 2013 in Idaho
Bill requires all Idaho kids to read ‘Atlas Shrugged
BOISE – Coeur d’Alene Sen. John Goedde, chairman of the Idaho Senate’s Education Committee, introduced legislation Tuesday to require every Idaho high school student to read Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” and pass a test on it to graduate from high school.
When Sen. Bob Nonini, R-Coeur d’Alene, asked Goedde why he chose that particular book, Goedde said to laughter, “That book made my son a Republican.”
Goedde said he doesn’t plan to press forward with the bill, but it was formally introduced in his committee Tuesday on a voice vote. He said he was sending a message to the State Board of Education, because he’s unhappy with its recent move to repeal a rule requiring two online courses to graduate from high school, and with its decision to back off on another planned rule regarding principal evaluations.
“It was a shot over their bow just to let them know that there’s another way to adopt high school graduation requirements,” Goedde said after the meeting. “I don’t intend to schedule a hearing on it.”
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nutjob
Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
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I guess it all depends on how you approach new ideas. Do you:
A) Blindly and automatically accept it as gospel?
B) Blindly and automatically rebel against accepting it as gospel?
C) Ponder the material, stimulate your own formation of ideas, and engage others in an exchange of ideas that otherwise might not have happened?
For me, Atlas Shrugged was an invitation to ponder the relationship between myself and society, what kind of a world I want to live in, what kinds of rights I want to have, and what my responsibilities should be. My attitudes evolved as I discussed it with other people. The novel form was more successful in achieving this outcome than a dry list of philosophical questions would have been to me in high school.
I think I am a better person for having read the book, and I think it would be useful for society if more people read it and debated the points made in it (and no, the main point is not "why should my hard work go to pay taxes to support lazy dumb people who don't get a job"). That said, I can't conceive of how this idealistic fantasy of improving our society through mandatory reading and debating of Ayn Rand would be carried out cleanly; rather it would be twisted and colored and used as a tool for nefarious political purposes.
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